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Retribution Against the Financial Elite

UPDATES: Portland Holds New Home

Posted 2 years ago on Dec. 4, 2011, 9:11 a.m. EST by OccupyWallSt

Watch live streaming video from occupyptown at livestream.com

Last night, Portland Police used violent force to evict Shemanski Park. Photos and live footage show police in full riot gear aggressively taking down nonviolent protesters. Among other incidents, one 15 year old was smashed in the face with a baton. Undaunted, Occupiers took to the streets, routed lines of riot police, and marched on City Hall. As revelers joined in and the protest continued to grow, the march stopped downtown for a dance party and then returned to Shemanski to defend their new home while celebrating with more dancing and pizza. Proving that our determination cannot be halted, most police had left the scene and Occupy Portland continues to hold public space as of 9am EST (6am PST).

Portland cops

late night march

15yo hit with riot stick

82 Comments

82 Comments


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[-] 6 points by gwynnpearl (11) from Longview, WA 2 years ago

I watched when corporate America finally dug it's claws in deep during the Reagan era, and remember feeling a sense of panic and doom as I watched the President of the United States pander to the Fortune 500 and the almighty dollar. I felt the apathy and cynicism grow amongst people during each subsequent decade, as our politicians, government and (yes) even our own neighbors turned their back on other-centered values, and my heart wept. Yet I have to say at the same time during these decades of increasing demoralization--I always believed a revolution would occur, and hopefully before I died. I have also held the belief we could start a non-violent, grassroots, spontaneous revolution. Occupy Movement has come about quickly and phenomenally. It is proof that we as a people value liberty and justice for all. ~99%er

[-] 3 points by proudofOKC (361) 2 years ago

Well said. I too feel like this is a time for me to be proud to be an American, and to participate as well.

[-] -2 points by spittlesticks (26) from Maple Valley, WA 2 years ago

But our President is none of these things now. Why the weeping and demoralization? The current president has most assuredly NOT pandered to the "almighty dollar". Have you not watched the stock market tank since he took office? Seen the value of the US dollar dropped? You've gotten your fondest wish! You should be dancing in the streets! Why not?

[-] 5 points by uftscott (26) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

Obama is as corporate a president as we've ever had. He relies on the financial services "industry" for campaign donations and repays them handsomely.

[-] 3 points by geminijlw (176) from Mechanicsburg, PA 2 years ago

If you think any president is to blame, you are right, but do not single out one. Through presidents, congress, and state and local government we have allowed them to change our way of life. We must focus on not who, but what can we do, and follow OWSNY and others. Keep the focus, do not blame one party over another, or we are going to follow in their footsteps. We are one, the 99%.

[-] 5 points by yoss33 (269) 2 years ago

"As revelers joined in and the protest continued to grow, the march stopped downtown for a dance party and then returned to Shemanski to defend their new home while celebrating with more dancing and pizza. Proving that our determination cannot be halted, most police had left the scene and Occupy Portland continues to hold public space as of 9am EST (6am PST)."

Yes! I love it! Dancing in the streets!

I love you Portland. Way to go! Hope everyone heals up. Good for you 15 year old guy, hope you're ok. I've taken shots to the face for far worse, i commend your courage.

[-] 4 points by mja (14) 2 years ago

Let's keep in sight our ultimate weapon,peace. They cannot combat peace. Let's not forget the example that one of our greatest warriors provided for us,Jesus!

[-] 3 points by Xxskillzz (18) 2 years ago

Just let the police continue issuing citations and make sure as many people as humanly possible receive them. Have everyone plead "not guilty." Next, spend the few dollars it costs for each subpoena and send one to every officer present on the scene, as well as a great many other witnesses. Then, proceed to represent yourself and question each officer and every witness, cross examine, recross, etc. In essence, by removing the officers from patrol you hinder their ability to continue fighting the movement. Also, you backlog the court and speedy trial issues could become problematic. After a likely conviction at the magisterial level, exercise their right to trial de novo and flood the county court with mass cases following the same procedure (and be sure to file endless and premade motions for all similar charges in a "how to" kit). In addition, file misconduct reports and citizen criminal complaints, file civil suit against the individual officers and the department and much more. If they are truly determined, it all comes down to a numbers game on multiple levels.

Edit on Dec 6, 2011 at 5:17pm: I posted this in its own forum named "not guilty." If everyone could help bump it so people review it, help brainstorm, and possibly implement it I would greatly appreciate it.

[-] 2 points by MachineShopHippie (216) from Louisville, KY 2 years ago

BRILLIANT!

We need more strategies like this! Do we have any lawyers that want to help put together state- and city-specific boilerplate for this?

Also, different police departments identify themselves in different ways. Sometimes it's a literal badge number, on a badge. Sometimes it's a sleeve insignia. Sometimes it's on all their riot gear, or just their helmet, or just their vest. Local occupy movements should inform all occupiers of how to find the badge numbers on their specific officer's uniforms/gear.

Police spend hours massing and flanking and planning so that when they actually move in, it's just a swarm of moving black things that can hurt you. In the heat of the moment, it can be very difficult to focus and look for officer ID. This anonymity protects them. How many officers have been brought up on charges or even suspended over the extremely well documented police brutality? We need to put an end to their anonymity.

Probably worth knowing though, the commonly held belief that police must identify themselves is actually a myth. If their badge number is not visible, they can refuse to give it to you. They will probably arrest you, at which point SOMEBODY has to sign the arrest report, but in order to prevent exactly what you are recommending, some police departments will just have the supervisor sign all reports generated in a particular action and then say they couldn't possibly know which specific officer was responsible for a particular incident.

If they take steps to be anonymous, we should publicize that fact. Whether you identify with the 99% or not, nobody will ever think it's a good idea to be policed by anonymous thugs that hurt children from behind masks and riot gear. We can't allow our civil servants to be the private army of the wealthy and powerful.

Please remember though, on the other side of that body armor is a member of the 99%. Police work long hours, have unions that are always fighting to keep their pensions and benefits, they frequently sacrifice their health and family stability because of required shift work, and many other common problems. This is not an Us vs. Them situation. They ARE US, they just can't see through their indoctrination yet.

Using the courts and due process to nonviolently remove these officers from the streets is a stroke of genius. Cheers to you!

[-] 2 points by Xxskillzz (18) 2 years ago

Machine,

Thank you for the supportive and highly informative post! I would suggest in a situation where officers are not easily identifiable, one look to shift records, patrol reports, or any other available information that could be obtained via subpoena so as to narrow down who was present. This works great for smaller police forces but will take some investigative work in larger ones. Also, record license plate numbers in order that one might check who signed out the vehicle. If the vehicle is present, the individual signing it out was likely also (unless a supervisor signs them all out).

Additionally, many cities have pictures of at least some of their officers posted along with names and badge numbers on a website. The name and badge number section is common even absent photos and could be helpful.

Also, could you please help me bump the forum post: "not guilty."

Cheers

[-] 0 points by outragedkulak (9) from Glen Burnie, MD 2 years ago

The police are part of the 90%. They are not part of the 10% of socially undesirables.

[-] 1 points by Xxskillzz (18) 2 years ago

Please provide us with your definition of socially undesirable.

[-] 2 points by BreadLandPeace (359) 2 years ago

Wow, great post!

[-] 1 points by outragedkulak (9) from Glen Burnie, MD 2 years ago

This is a great idea. When you tie the police up in court, the public is left unprotected. Small storekeepers open for business at their own peril. Rapists have free rein! Go for it.

[-] 2 points by Xxskillzz (18) 2 years ago

In essence your argument creates a false dilemma fallacy whereby you assert that because officers must go to court we would all be subjected to rapists and murders. They would at first simply use shift changes and overtime to handle the situation until such a time as overtime and budgets are strained. While it would ultimately reduce departmental resources as well as that of the courts (especially time), maybe they would stop arresting people exercising their constitutional rights and focus more on the rapists, murders and the like. When resources run low, tough choices need made. This tends to focus people a bit more when prioritizing.

Eventually, it is a numbers game where courts and police must make decisions. Just an FYI, the number of officers on patrol are increased only due to their response to occupy. If you would like to assert they have in no way been increased on some level, I would then ask: "if the officers are at occupy and not out arresting rapists and murders, is everyone not on their own anyway?" So why not make them come to court and strain resources so they start prioritizing? Make it no longer worth the extra officers and the number is reduced. Likewise, those officers spend their day at work in court and not on the streets arresting protesters. Eventually we must ask what good they are doing? Again, time to prioritize.

Also, any city that can hold New Years eve and other events, pay for cleanup, policing and much more could surely provide for occupiers so as to allow them to successfully protest. If they want to argue health and safety issues, maybe its time to cancel New years in New York.

[-] 1 points by Turtle (268) 2 years ago

Systemic Judo. Always a winner.

[-] 2 points by Xxskillzz (18) 2 years ago

Could you be so kind as to help me bump this in the main post (I actually accidentally posted it here the first time but this is gaining more attention). The post is called: "not guilty."

[-] 1 points by Turtle (268) 2 years ago

Yes, I clicked on 'like,' and perhaps others will do the same.

Assisting in flooding the courts with arrestees is a great method of teaching control-mongers they can't always afford to be gate-keepers in all regards...

Of course, historically, sometimes they've resorted to 'group trials' to try and minimize the strain on the system. Not sure of they can do that these days or not. Wouldn't surprise me if they could; they pretty well do what ever they damned well please these days, all the while demanding everyone else obey the least of ordinances...

Oligarchs; can't live with 'em, can't cook 'em long enough to make 'em tender and tasty.

[-] 3 points by TheRealCitizensUnited (33) 2 years ago

I am sorry and sickened for what your fellow Americans have done to you darling!! The pain on your face and in your soul is a reflection of what injustice and the innocent disappointment in your fellow Americans looks like on the outside. It is also a physical reflection of the pain of how many Americans feel today. Have courage and know that justice and democracy have never come easy for heros such as yourself. Don't allow them to take the anger you feel and plant it in your heart forever to become like them. Trust an old mom honey that Love for one another ALWAYS wins in the end!! These criminals who hurt our children are not Americans in any sense of the word. You will never forget this day and it will make you one of America's strongest future citizens if you can direct the hurt you feel in ways to create positive and everlasting change rather than lashing back. This is where your justice and victory exists. You are not suffering for them but rather for your own future as well as the rest of us!! Be careful our American Son and we love you!!!

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[-] -1 points by Steakandlobsterdinner (-12) 2 years ago

Capturing large bristleworms, if you desire to do so, can be difficult.  They are secretive and primarily nocturnal.  Large ones should not be captured by hand due to their sharp pincher teeth and setae which can puncture the skin.   One way to capture large ones is to place a rock with a hollow on the bottom side onto the sand in the evening.  A piece of shrimp or similar can be placed into the hollow to act as bait.  The next day the rock can be removed and the worms will come out with the rock, or they can be captured using a net or tweezers and disposed of.  There are also traps available on the market.  Biological controls are sometimes mentioned.  Several species of Wrasses, Copperbanded Butterflyfish, Banded Coral Shrimp and Arrow Crabs are all suppose to eat bristleworms, but I doubt that they will eat the large ones which are the only ones to possibly be concerned about.  My recommendation is to leave them alone unless you have reason to believe they are causing damage.  Also be aware that when an animal, such as a clam dies, the bristle worms will frequently feed on the carcass as will any scavenger.  Many people misunderstand that the worms are only scavenging and falsely assume that the worms killed the clam or other specimen.

[-] 2 points by BreadLandPeace (359) 2 years ago

I'm terribly upset to see a child beaten up like that. Not a child in that he's old enough to understand what's right and can understand what we're fighting for, but he's too young to be bloodied, so dangerously. These actions may be getting too dangerous to allow kids to participate, it may just not be responsible to organize what will surely turn into violent confrontations. I wish this hadn't happened.

[-] 2 points by MachineShopHippie (216) from Louisville, KY 2 years ago

Yes, it isn't responsible to organize what will surely turn into violent confrontations. The police should really stop doing that. Nonviolent protest cannot succeed if we are deterred by violence.

I absolutely do not advocate that children are put in harm's way, quite the opposite. Millions of children in our country are dreading the coming winter cold because they don't have the food or housing security that all children should have. Some of them will not survive the winter, many of them will be taken from their parents and made wards of the (impoverished, understaffed, overloaded) state, some will do unspeakable things to have a warm place to stay for the night.

I applaud this boy for having the courage to leave the comfort and safety of his home and stand up for his values. I condemn the violent actions of the police.

The whole world is watching... whose side will they want to be on?

[-] 2 points by DonQuixot (231) 2 years ago

Just let it grow, because it will grow, and grow, and grow, slow but sure. As sure as the world is sick with an overdose of greed.

[-] 2 points by benerus (0) 2 years ago

How Long are we going to put up with this police state? Are we going to wait passively like the good Germans of the 1930s? It started there in the name of Fatherland security. When the people woke up it was too late: the police state, Fascism was too entrenched. I'd rather have Freedom than security.

[-] 1 points by proudofOKC (361) 2 years ago

I think people prefer a passive approach to peace, even if it means turning their backs on human suffering, but peace cannot be obtained passively. It must be actively and diligently maintained. You are right, that it happens too late. In our case it is already dangerously late. We see police brutality and find out afterward that it is all legal.

[-] 1 points by warbstar (210) 2 years ago

proudofOKC writes, ".....it is already dangerously late....."

It was already too late when the movement began. People are already dying. While we were NOT watching Senators Hatch and Gramm created a legal framework that permits the 1% to use capitalism as a weapon against the innocent. The result is a massive increase in homelessness, massive food shortages, medical shortages, and worse.

This is the new face of mass-murder in America.

[-] 2 points by proudofOKC (361) 2 years ago

You're right, and unfortunately what I have noticed is that average Americans are too humble and have their standards set too low, which results in their being taken advantage of. I have a friend who works as a waitress ($2/hr + tipshare). She has to live with her mom and split the rent, she has no medical insurance despite having asthma, no savings, and debt just from normal living expenses. She refuses food stamps on principle, even though she qualifies for it. When I talked with her she said she was "getting by" and that she can't complain. No way! I'm not saying I want to drive a million dollar car. I'm just saying that that standard of living is not even acceptable while you are young, so that cannot be "getting by".

[-] 1 points by outragedkulak (9) from Glen Burnie, MD 2 years ago

Why does your friend work as a waitress. She has to have 12 years of education and should be able to attend evening classes and learn a trade or profession. If She lives with mommie, how can she qualify for foood stamps? Does she have rent insurance? Health insurance allows one to pay the average costs of medical care. It's not something for nothing. That's called free medical care. How about heat insurance. Give het TV insurance while you are at it.

[-] 1 points by proudofOKC (361) 2 years ago

Evening classes cost money; she and her mom qualify for all kinds of things; of course she cannot afford rent insurance or health insurance, so what's your question...?

[-] 2 points by anonymouscalamity (0) 2 years ago

We must teach the Cop Pigs, by our numbers and our resolve, that we will win. Just like at UC Davis, Just like in Portland. Chase the cops away.

[-] 1 points by BreadLandPeace (359) 2 years ago

I agree with you, except your comment's unfair to pigs. Actually, I don't know if we can just chase the cops away. That's getting into confrontations with armed bodies of men, and we're not in a position to challenge them on their terms. Our greatest weapon is public opinion and winning over the majority.

[-] 1 points by spittlesticks (26) from Maple Valley, WA 2 years ago

Sorry, but this is a losing scenario. The cops will outnumber you. You will lose. Look at UC Davis, and Portland. Who is there now? You have to come up with a better game plan, IMHO.

[-] 2 points by wavemass (0) from New York, NY 2 years ago

When are the police going to wake up and realize they are just puppets being used to violate our constitutional rights! Wake up officers of the law, you are controlled by corporate backed white shirts who are using you to violate your own people and country!

[-] 2 points by dhcases (0) 2 years ago

the violation of civil rights should result in ban from any government employment or office once liability is established--for life.

[-] 2 points by Sf10 (0) 2 years ago

The photos say it all, just look how they must dress to defend their own fears, it is laughable. We do understand, but there is no excuse for not responding to peaceful public protests and to answer these question publically and in open forum. Unless the government and politisans and religous folk are afraid to do the right thing by their own conscience. If we are the enemy, then they are the ones living in fear. This has come to my home and others see it too, we are responding and the message is getting out there, it is just how much they fear this truth that will rear its ugly head. They expect us to be violent, leave it to them so we can continue to control them until they see it for what it is. Truth will out!!!!

[-] 2 points by Bellaciao29 (99) 2 years ago

You have all our simpathy. Police becomes always more violent because has realized that the people are invincible. At this point I think you'd better organize attacks during the night in hundred different places of the Country. The actions haven't to be violent, but useful to surprise politicians, policemen and the few americans who still sleep on foot.

[-] 1 points by outragedkulak (9) from Glen Burnie, MD 2 years ago

All night convience stores are good targets. How about gas stations.? You can assault nurses in emergency rooms also. this might be useful to surprise politicans, policemen and the few americans who slep peacefully at night.

[-] 1 points by BreadLandPeace (359) 2 years ago

What do you mean, organize attacks? Are you a provacateur? That's just what will isolate the movement and cause people to get confused about where the violence comes from in society. And provocations wlll get valuable activists hurt and victimized. No way!

[-] 1 points by Bellaciao29 (99) 2 years ago

I haven't spoken of violent attacks, but of attacks useful to surprise the policemen and the politicians. The surprise is very different from the violence.

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[-] 2 points by bettydonnelly (115) 2 years ago

Where the Hell is Obama and the Atty Gen. AWOL thats where they are. Occupy the White House !!!

[-] 1 points by spittlesticks (26) from Maple Valley, WA 2 years ago

Amen.

[-] 2 points by Coinyer101 (25) 2 years ago

Keep fighting...., this effort is worthy....,

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[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20558) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

Our blood shed in Portland is American blood, and upon their heads will rest that stain.

We take heart and resolve ourselves to this simple fact:

our system of belief and our will to be victorious is far superior to theirs and we know they cannot win. They cannot win because everything they believe is un-American.

[-] 1 points by outragedkulak (9) from Glen Burnie, MD 2 years ago

It is interesting that non-violent protestors were able to ROUT the armed police.

[-] 1 points by garybob (3) 2 years ago

make billionaires pay more taxes!

[-] 1 points by garybob (3) 2 years ago

let's change how the cheating wall street is run and stop wall street from manipulating stocks!!!

[-] 1 points by billbux (35) 2 years ago

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[-] 1 points by billbux (35) 2 years ago

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[-] 1 points by SelfReliant (94) 2 years ago

Campers. Protesting is great, but it is strange to read where the article says that protracted returned to the park to "defend their new home". This is a public park, it is not their home. I love the Occupy spirit of questioning status quo and using the right to protest, but claiming that such a park is now "their new home" is disturbing. Keep questioning, protesting, trying to make the world better for all, but don't try to claim public parks as yours, they belong to all citizens and cannot be "your new home".

[-] 6 points by bhall (5) 2 years ago

I dont think that they mean home in the traditional sense but as in a new home base for the movement

[-] 5 points by gwynnpearl (11) from Longview, WA 2 years ago

Pretty sure "our new home" is rhetorical. Every movement has to have a base and who could resent a group which is willing to protest with passive resistance techniques and in the cold weather? Tenacity alone deserves meritorious honor and respect.

[-] 5 points by ubiquill (4) 2 years ago

For many in the movement there is no house to go back to. Part of our collective struggle is ensuring that all people have a home, and a place to stay. This is why this park is our home.

[-] 1 points by AliciaMBBallard (0) 2 years ago

wow the first still says it all...

[-] 1 points by Thisisthetime (200) from Kahlotus, WA 2 years ago

Looks like the 1% told their Sheriff to get the deputies to do their dirty work. I am impressed by the courage of the Occupiers facing such a Gestapo Appearance of the deputies. Be Strong.

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[-] 0 points by ObamaIsrael (0) 2 years ago

Portland Occupy is stupid. No one cares about them.

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[-] 0 points by chessplayer (3) 2 years ago

If Occupy will get anywhere to change things it must at some point form a political party...I would assume with 10% unemployment and then another 10% unreported that's 60 million people that will vote for you, not to mention everyone else. Think politics become the government! You can do it!

Separation of state from corporation and the elimination of the private corporation called the Federal Reserve so that the country prints its own money and not charge any interest to itself.

[-] 2 points by owews (7) 2 years ago

Anarchists don't form political parties. You don't seem to understand what OWS is all about.

[-] 2 points by chessplayer (3) 2 years ago

I would like to hear your version of what OWS is so that we can understand you better.

[-] 1 points by cednie (6) 2 years ago

do some research, it is not hard to find out what OWS is about

[-] 1 points by spittlesticks (26) from Maple Valley, WA 2 years ago

I'm doing research, and I can't for the life of me figure it out. On the one hand, "abolish money". On the other hand "donate!" WTF? Please explain.

[-] 1 points by cednie (6) 2 years ago

there are many routes to take on the way to change... take them all and have a good time living your life

[-] 1 points by spittlesticks (26) from Maple Valley, WA 2 years ago

"take them all"? I'm sorry, but this makes no sense to me. I'm looking for answers.

[-] 1 points by chessplayer (3) 2 years ago

well I didn't see Anarchists mentioned...can you copy paste anything like that for all to see? or a link maybe

[-] 1 points by cednie (6) 2 years ago

I'm not sure what you are looking for exactly, but here is a link that explains more about anarchist principles. I don't know why "anarchy" is treated as such a bad word, it has a proud history. http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2011/11/2011112872835904508.html

[-] 1 points by bpmangan (123) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Anarchy, while very present at any OWS event I've been too and very much given a bad name despite a stronger history than many other social structures, is not what OWS is about. OWS doesn't actively structure many speaking points because, what I see as, the main purpose is to hear a full range of voices. If that is what OWS does, then it makes absolutely no sense for us to start a political party. OWS might be able to compete with other parties, but getting everyone to agree on a specific candidate would be nearly impossible.

[-] 1 points by BreadLandPeace (359) 2 years ago

Socialist Action, where are you when we need you. We do need a revolutionary political party.

[-] 1 points by spittlesticks (26) from Maple Valley, WA 2 years ago

So, if Anarchy is not what OWS is about, what exactly IS it about? Just asking...

[-] 1 points by bpmangan (123) from New York, NY 2 years ago

To me, and I want to accent that because I'm sure others would disagree or ammend my statement and it is far from GA approved, its about giving a voice to the multitudes of people who are oppresed by the way the system functions now. Anarchists propose a possible solution. Socialists propose another. Unions who function within the current system propose another. A lot of peopel propose that Crony Capitalism is the issue and not Capitalism on the whole. Anarchy is one option, not OWS doctrine. Of course that's just my take on exactly what its about, some might change the words but I think that is one of the core tenets of the protest although it has many many arms.

[-] 1 points by spittlesticks (26) from Maple Valley, WA 2 years ago

You haven't said what OWS doctrine is, just what it isn't. I have to conclude that there isn't any doctrine - just protest. Show me that I'm wrong.

[-] 1 points by bpmangan (123) from New York, NY 2 years ago

I believe there is protest because people feel they aren't being heard. Too much power, economic, political and social etc., overlaps and is overly-centralized. Is that simple enough?

From there each voice is trying to make its own points heard, which is exactly why starting a political party doesn't make sense. If anything political parties might. About 15 of them at the bare minimum. Maybe the breaking open of a flawed two-party system so that other voices could be heard is one of the arms of the protests.

Just because you can't find the doctrine or hear the purpose of the protests, doesn't mean they are without base.

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[-] -1 points by ObamaIsrael (0) 2 years ago

yawn. same old crap. different day, occupy is boring.

[-] -1 points by ObamaIsrael (0) 2 years ago

you can't occupy a public space that belongs to the people. You don't own it. It's a park and should stay a park. You want to own something rent a house, set up a fund, set up a homeless shelter do something besides break laws. I'm tired of police letting occupy get away with this. Take some real action. Close it down.

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[-] -1 points by JPB950 (2254) 2 years ago

Sad, if the only point becomes hanging on to camping grounds, then this movement is going to fail. There has to be something else they can accomplish.

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[-] 1 points by comrade724 (7) from East Lansing, MI 2 years ago

So in what way were you planning on helping them with that? Because you're right, this protest can't just be about camping. And the only people in it aren't campers. Talk is cheap. Don't ask of the movement, you are the movement. Do.

[-] 2 points by JPB950 (2254) 2 years ago

I do, voting as an individual, working on a campaign, that is just a start though. I live in one district. Occupy is all across the country, in many districts. Their efforts right now are uncoordinated and ineffective. To make change we need to elect people from many districts and demonstrate to others that we are a large voting block. If they let themselves be distracted with little self centered goals they are stuck being as ineffective as my one vote.

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[-] 1 points by xxcONScIENcExx (172) 2 years ago

What if the problem was deep rooted in the system itself? Would your and my vote really have a chance at changing something? What this movement is accomplishing is awareness and the slow chipping away at years of growing apathy. A vote is only the beginning of democracy and far away from the finish line.

[-] 2 points by cednie (6) 2 years ago

I think if the OWS campaign is about "hearts and minds" OWS is doing just fine. Voting is mostly ineffective if all candidates are beholden to corporate money.

[-] 2 points by JPB950 (2254) 2 years ago

I agree, it's the new ribbon for inequity awareness, now it has to be followed up with action. You are also right one or two votes don't change anything. but OWS has an organization, they can draft candidates and offer many votes to support them. It's worked in civil rights, the environment, AARP, gun nuts. They all have a group, they offer to support someone in return for legislative help with an agenda.

As far as the system being broken is concerned, maybe it is, but you'll never convince the 80 to 85% of the people that have jobs and made Black Friday a success of that failure. Occupy is national and can influence politicians across the country.

I see it as a long journey, you and I alone have to walk, OWS can drive us there if they are only able to see they have the power.

[-] 1 points by comrade724 (7) from East Lansing, MI 2 years ago

Another point I'd like to make to people unsatisfied with Occupy's progress is that they've still only been around for 3 months. Movements don't start, build up, and win in 3 months. The civil rights movement took years. The gay rights movement is still going on. It's just that news cycles move so damn fast we're conditioned to think that if the movement isn't breaking news at a constantly increasing rate than it's failed. But not so. Not even close. For a 3 month old movement Occupy has been so obscenely successfully in shifting the public dialogue, in addition to more direct actions (feeding homeless people and stopping foreclosures may be small in impact, though they're still victories) that I'm honestly absolutely in awe of it. Occupy camps are closing down, sure. But I'm studying sociology as an undergrad right now and hardly a day goes by that occupy, or income inequality, doesn't come up in class. That's some serious momentum.

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[-] -3 points by Steakandlobsterdinner (-12) 2 years ago

Bristleworms range in size from small (about 1" long) up to very large at about 20" in length.  Most small ones are an orange color, sometime appearing two-tone in color.  Larger bristleworms are frequently gray or brownish in color.  Bristleworms are composed of many segments and have bristles (setae) which extend from both sides of its body along its entire length, hence their common name.  These setae are clearly visible in the picture above.  Bristle worms live in the sand or within the live rock.  They are nocturnal and not usually seen during the day. Good or Bad?: This is a tough one.  Historically, bristleworms were all considered to be bad.  Most literature warns that they can attack and eat clams, anemones, corals and even fish.  Recently, most hobbyists have come to the conclusion that small bristle worms pose no threat to other tank inhabitants and are in fact good scavengers and add to the biodiversity of the tank.  You can even buy bristleworms from some sources. Even large bristleworms are starting to be better understood.  Although it appears that some large bristleworms can be aggressive predators, these seem to be in the minority.  Many large bristleworms seem to fall into the harmless scavenger category.  The one in the picture above has been in one of my tanks for several years.  It is about 1/3" across and at least 12" long although I have only seen about 6" of it.  It lives next to a group of clams and has never shown any interest in bothering the other creatures in the tank.  He is a very impressive looking specimen in his own right. Notes: Look for bristle worms at night with a flashlight to see if they are present in your tank.  Feeding the tank in the evening will sometimes cause them to come out and feed.