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Summer Disobedience School Week 3: Exposing Debt (video)

Posted 2 years ago on June 11, 2012, 7:13 a.m. EST by OccupyWallSt

Starting at Bryant Park, OWS Summer Disobedience School presents the issue of student debt in front the Bank of America Tower, in front of the I.R.S under the National Debt Clock, and in the fountain on 6th Avenue opposite Radio City Music Hall. The school day concludes with "The People's Alarm" in Times Square.

43 Comments

43 Comments


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[-] 3 points by DanK (44) 2 years ago

The National Debt Clock???? Please don't tell me you Occupy folks have been captured by the public debt hysterians.

In order for the private sector to run a surplus, the public sector needs to run a deficit. These deficits need not create debt obligation paid by tax revenues from the public, but can be entirely financed by the central bank. The central bank can create money from scratch. It is not subject to the constraints of households or commercial banks. It doesn't need revenues; it doesn't need capital. In some circumstances this kind of money creation could be dangerously inflationary - but not in a situation with massive unemployment and under-utilization of productive resources!

Politicians are squeezing the life out of your generation by telling you that we are "out of money" and that we must all tighten our belts. It's a lie! They are bamboozling you with this nonsense. Tell them you want the Congress to seize control of public monetary operations from the Fed, and use that power to employ the unemployed, put the productive engine of this economy back to work, pay off your debts and invest heavily in your future.

[-] 3 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 2 years ago

Ah someone educated in MMT. Glad to see you here.

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[-] 3 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Disobedience is as American as Apple Pie and Mother's Day! You are carrying on a noble tradition. Thank you strong young people!

[-] -2 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

But default and blaming others for the consequences of your choices AREN'T as American as Apple Pie and Mother's Day.

Make better choices regarding curriculum and debt and watch yourself have fewer problems. Shocking, I know.

This is the dumbest generation ever.

[-] 2 points by nicky2 (46) 2 years ago

This is the awakened generation and the smartest I've seen. ... and guess what else they have : A SPINE. Educate yourself and find out just how extremely difficult your suggestion is today. Maybe you are a maggot or the offspring of one and have no problem managing. And PS if you're not a billionaire, your day is coming... and what a shock it will be .

[-] -1 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

That's funny. This generation is so used to entitlement and debt that they simply gave no thought to it. And now that it's causing problems, they're answer is simply to double-down with taxpayer money not understanding how students with pockets full of cash making really bad choices are fueling tuition inflation.

Apparently, they need to make "No Shit 101" a freshman requirement. Sure, they could cover things like how borrowed money needs to be paid back, how you should think about that BEFORE you graduate, a little about how no employer gives a shit about sociology or women's studies majors, and in general about the vast array of choices one can make to borrow less.

Better choices before more subsidy: An idea whose time has come.

[+] -6 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

How about just repaying your loans rather than stealing? How about simply making better educational choices with borrowing money and not just defaulting and demanding a doubling-down of subsidy? Are good decisions really that hard.... of college students no less? Entitled whiners.

[-] 2 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 2 years ago

You have had 5 versions of your username so far? Bad little troll, bad.

[-] -2 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

I don't bother to save my log-in.

Troll: Voices of reason among some severely misdirected people.

The dumbest generation ever demands its right to more subsidy and default over simply making better decisions. Disobedience school? Hopefully it includes "No Shit 101" where they teach them that huge amounts of debt and soft or completely fraudulent majors don't mix. Complicated, huh?

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28150) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Your definition seems to be off.

Let me help you out.

To identify a troll - look at issues that benefit all of society - and see them standing in the way.

To identify a troll look at issues that benefit special interest groups - quite often to the detriment of society/humanity/world - and see them cheering on the issue for the special interest.

[-] 1 points by nicky2 (46) 2 years ago

Excellent and ditto.

[-] -1 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

The issues that benefit you, that someone else pays for. LOL.

Your posts are clear. As long as you aren't paying, your hand goes up when asked who wants more.

But if your style of liberalism honestly is worth having, it should also be worth paying for, and not just by someone else.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28150) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

You may be an adult but it is obvious that you are not grown-up.

[-] -2 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

But I pay my own bills and some of yours too. That makes me more of a grown up than you.

Join the paying class and THEN talk about all the neato government freebies you want to hand out.

[-] 3 points by nicky2 (46) 2 years ago

I pay my bills and some of yours also. . . but the difference is real grown ups pull their weight in a team called society and we do not complain. We upllift and everyone wins....even you. And even though you won't stand up for the rights of all society members we fight for you any way because that' s what grown ups do. If you get educated, maybe you'll join us too..

[-] -1 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

Nah, I think you should take care of yourself before living off your neighbors. It's just this crazy little thing called a work ethic and personal responsibility the left has tried to extinguish. Shame on you for so easily underwriting dysfunction.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

I's gots to get money to pay rent to someone else somehow

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

I's gots to get money to pay rent to someone else somehow

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

I's gots to get money to pay rent to someone else somehow

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

I's gots to get money to pay rent to someone else somehow

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (28150) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I pay taxes asshole. I also pay my own bills.

You have the understanding of a new born - NONE.

[-] 0 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

Wow, you pay taxes! I'm impressed. When it breaks a $100 a year, lemme know. See, governments don't pay the bills for the all the bullshit programs you demand with a show of hands, they do it with MONEY.

Join the paying class and then get an opinion about how much shit you want from government. Until then, it's kinda obvious you want more when you aren't paying for it.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28150) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Eat shit - you are running low from spewing.

[-] -1 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

Of course, you only mean that if someone else pays for the shit.

Shocker: Guy wants more goodies as long as they're free... to him.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28150) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

What is your position on fossil fuel subsidies?

What is your position on out sourcing jobs to foreign sweatshops?

What is your position on universal Health care?

What is your position on prosecuting the economic meltdown criminals?

What is your position on OSTA?

What is your position on corporate personhood?

What is your position on getting money out of politics?

What is your position on free trade agreements that undercut domestic production/jobs?

What is your position on pollution?

What is your position on global warming?

What is your position on green energy?

Fuck-off Shit-Head.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago
[-] 1 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 2 years ago

Disobedience school? Hopefully it includes "No Shit 101" where they teach them that huge amounts of debt and soft or completely fraudulent majors don't mix. Complicated, huh?

Sounds more like the curriculum at the Whartons School of Business' MBA program, where they teach that ethics and business don't mix, how to defraud the government for trillions while keeping your golden parachute as you trash your company, gambling derivatives for billions is risk free capitalism through algorithms and creates interlocking debt that is guaranteed to bring you government help because you can threaten to bring down the global economy.

Troll: is someone who posts inflammatory or off-topic messages in an online community.

[-] 0 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

Off-topic? It is the topic.

You've convinced me. You're brilliant ideas about Wharton, where you get them is anybody's guess, do mean that students should flake on student loans, demand more subsidy, and not adjust a thing in terms of borrowing and curriculum. LOL.

So, if you're a African American "Studies" major with $100k in debt, plow forward because if you have problems with debt, clearly, it's someone else's fault and someone else's problem.

[-] 2 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 2 years ago

You've convinced me. You're brilliant ideas about Wharton, where you get them is anybody's guess, do mean that students should flake on student loans, demand more subsidy, and not adjust a thing in terms of borrowing and curriculum. LOL.

No they have convinced me, they being the MBA's. It's how business is conducted in America. Maybe you haven't read the papers for the last 3 years eh? Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Citigroup, Wells Fargo, AIG, ... take your pick.

My personal favorite is Wachovia. ex-CEO Ken Thompson, against the Board of Directors opinion, purchased Golden West Financial- a subprime mortgage company at the very peak of the real estate boom. The bad mortgages were in the tens of billions of dollars worth. 2 months later the shit hits the fan and Wachovia is now in tens of billions of dollars of debt, not counting the derivatives deals that weren't on the ledger for billions.

The bank folded over the course of a weekend by a 'silent run' on the bank, meaning the derivatives defaulted and became instantly due. Bank stock went to less than a penny and the NYSE stopped trading on Wachovia. CEO Ken Thompson resigns and gets $24 Million dollars for his efforts and success in trashing the bank. Wells Fargo gets to buy the bank that has assets worth $700 Billion for $15 Billion. The Federal Reserve comes in and purchases all of the bad debt from Wells Fargo to clear the slate. Debt removed.

[-] -1 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

You're right, a Women's Studies major and $100k in debt is a good idea. You're entitled. Thanks for opening my eyes. LOL.

[-] 3 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 2 years ago

As entitled as any CEO that has trashed his bank, got his golden parachute, brought down the economy, and had the company debt purchased by the Federal Reserve... you are correct.

[-] -1 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

Any rationalization you can come up with, I know that's the drill. Entitlement always needs some basis, even if it's made up. So, join the whining middle class in demanding more subsidy. Fuel more tuition inflation. Underwrite even dumbed decision making by clueless "students". Make it all better and then make your case to someone that didn't attend college as to why they should pay for it. Ooops, hadn't thought about that last part. This is how Greece happened.

This is the dumbest generation ever. And when faced with the obvious consequences of dumb decisions, rather than make better decisions, they simply want a doubling-down of other people's money.

Make it Celtic Studies and make it $125k in debt. Why not, CEOs are bad, very bad. LOL.

[-] 5 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 2 years ago

If you think thats how Greece happened try again. Way to over simplify and misapply scenarios.

All you seem to do is equate education to dollar signs. The only function of the Universities is training for the job market? You think of the Universities as being trade schools? Then you don't know what a University is.

Thomas Jefferson: "An educated citizenry is a vital requisite for our survival as a free people."

He was for state sponsored education as well. Funny so are our major adversaries in the world. Think the Communist Chinese aren't paying for complete college educations for millions of students outright? Think we can even began to start competing with them if we don't ourselves?

I suggest you learn some macroeconomics. The money to pay for higher education is there. The desire to not do this is politically motivated, and makes no sense as far as the advancement of our country goes. Instead of granting educations and advancing our country we reward thieves for destroying it.

Another thing... its not coming out of your pocket so calm down sparky. Taxes haven't funded government spending since 1971 when Nixon closed the gold window. The currency changed and so did the rules. Might want to check up on that.

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[-] -1 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

No, that's not the only function of universities. And we do have state sponsored education, extensive state sponsored education.

The money is there? Where? And what makes it belong to these students and why should it be handed over to them without asking them to make better choices? Remember, 3/4 of the population didn't go to college. Asking a plumber to dig deeper to fund a college student that, unless they study something without economic value, will substantially out earn him isn't socially just.

College consumes resources. That's fine and natural. All we need is for students to act like it and to make better choices from the huge array of educational choices available to them. Yep, better choices before more of someone else's money. Radical, I know.

Tuition inflation is being fueled by too much indiscriminate money being thrown around already. More money + continued poor decision making = more inflation. That, of course, will simply driver liberals to again double-down with subsidy.

I'm fascinated to learn that I haven't been paying taxes because we're off the gold standard. I guess the other stuff I'm somehow strangely able to buy with money is an illusion too. Wait 'til I tell the kids that trip to Hawaii didn't happen. LOL.

[-] 1 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 2 years ago

I'm fascinated to learn that I haven't been paying taxes because we're off the gold standard.

These are some simple explanations that you might be able to follow.:

http://www.istockanalyst.com/finance/story/5749331/who-s-afraid-of-the-big-bad-national-debt

http://neweconomicperspectives.org/2012/05/playing-monopolis-monopoly-an-inquiry-into-why-we-are-making-ourselves-so-miserable.html

[-] -1 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

Make better choices before you ask for more. That's the least your neighbors that pay for it are entitled to ask.

[-] 1 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 2 years ago

I take it you didn't understand what you read on those links then. You still think that neighbors are paying for it... on the Federal level that is.

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

I plan on a car crash

[-] 1 points by nicky2 (46) 2 years ago

The only thieves are the maggot rich and their enabling trolls : No God, no conscience, no morals. And no. all rich people are not in this loop. Some are truly decent people. However I am paying their share of taxes as well. When that slave bracelet wraps around your ankle, you will wake up but it will be too late.

[-] 1 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

Sure, the "good" rich people that just hand it over without an argument.

It's time for students to make better choices before they simply get more subsidy. Too much money being too recklessly spent has created tuition inflation and a lot of dummies living in their parents' basements.

Soft majors, tuition, and debt have all exploded. What's is going to take for this, the dumbest generation ever, to figure out that $100k in debt and a sociology major is a bad mix. Earlier generations knew this was obvious.

[-] 2 points by Satalink (2) 2 years ago

Occupiers - raise awareness on H-1B Visas. Americans are vastly unaware of this corporate anti-american worker issue. This is the issue that will mainstream you into the american hearts.

[-] 1 points by grapes (3007) 2 years ago

Yes, indeed. I was very surprised by Michio Kaku's video calling H-1B visas "genius visas." They are more like licenses to import invasive species. There will be great disruptions to the ecosystem whenever wage differential is great.

H-1B visa holders are not far from the indentured servants of olden days -- they must either find a new U.S. employer on short orders or leave the U.S. if they lose their H-1B jobs. They may also have to wait patiently for years for the very slow U.S. legal system to process their permanent residency applications while being "trapped" by their employers whose "co-operation/exploitation" they Require for the legal process.

Perhaps Michio Kaku was just an academic who had Never seen the corporate side of things (first and foremost Profits). The elites play H-1B's against the indigenous (and soon-to-be-indigent) workers and laugh their heads off.

Another explanation of Michio Kaku's utterance is that U.S. colleges and universities benefit tremendously from the H-1B visa luring foreign students here to study for many years (if they do not study they become illegal and subject to deportation) in order to have a chance to become immigrants. This created very long-term customers for the colleges and universities and many foreign students end up getting doctoral degrees if they cannot nab an H-1B visa earlier. What a boon to a professor's host! Wow, the U.S. can literally suck in the lifetime savings of the parents of these near-lifelong-learning "students" and "indigent apprentices"! This may be why Michio Kaku called H-1B visa "genius visas" (for fattening U.S. colleges and universities).

Having all of these foreign-student Ph.D.s also allow Michio Kaku to call indigenous U.S. students "dumb."

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 2 years ago

If we made the H-1B visas apply to importing foreign Ceo's only and flood the market, lowering the U.S. Ceo's pay, I could support that.

[-] 1 points by fiftyfourforty (1077) from New York, NY 2 years ago

You have a point there.

[-] 1 points by chrisxyz (1) 2 years ago

FYI, The trolls DONT WANT to be reasoned with so they can understand. They want you to waste your breath trying to reason with them. It also wastes your energy and momentum when you have to back-pedal for the deadweight who cooose to b deadweight. its just what they want.

[-] 1 points by TheIllusionCalledMoney (56) 2 years ago

My goodness, all these months later and the people are still fighting amongst each other, while the super-elite and wealthy bankers that stole trillions remain untouched. I'll tell you, as long as we continue to fight amongst each other, they will continue to steal trillions more of our money, while laughing at how well they have the wage slaves of the world continuing to fight amongst each other, while ignoring the amazing thefts that go on without one prosecution to speak of.

Oh, and did I mention that money itself is a Ponzi scheme. I know, we all know that here. We all know the true history of money, the Federal Reserve and the like. We have all read the many, many books on the subject of money itself, and how it is nothing more than a sleight of hand Ponzi scheme that has enslaved the world.

And the masses continue to fight amongst each other, while the trillionaire bankers celebrate another victory over the peasants. Classic, but yet so, so sad....

Yes, the true enemy of the world are the Occupiers, not the Bankers. I agree :)

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[-] -2 points by anonymouse (154) 2 years ago

Greets from Russia, just found this site - it is a great pleasure to see how people can stand for their freedoms and equality. But isn't it strange how Occupy movement, having no obvious leaders or power structures, manages not only to survive, but to act simultaneously in so many places? And why there were no such protest movements in US and Europe until recently? I must be paranoid, but there should always be reasons when mass protests emerge out of nowhere. Maybe it is profitable for someone outside/inside US and Europe to have civil protests in all these countries? I hope it is not true. But anyway, your intentions are very good and i hope that you will have success with them.

[-] 4 points by sadierebelle (43) 2 years ago

I assure you no one is profiting from our protests, except maybe local police departments who are getting rich off buying unnecessary riot gear at our expense. But we at OccupyWallSt.org have been here since the beginning, and there is no shadowy conspiracy, rich benefactor, or centralized coordination of any kind behind the spread of Occupy. Just hardworking volunteers who are fed up with the injustices we regularly face and want to change the world to be fairer for everyone, and a whole lot of people acting autonomously in self-organized groups working in mutual aid and solidarity who chose to align themselves with one another by calling themselves Occupy. :-) Solidarity!