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We kick the ass of the ruling class

Poster for N17 Mass Direct Action: Print and Post Freely!

Posted 3 years ago on Nov. 14, 2011, 10:53 a.m. EST by OccupyWallSt

N17 Direct Action

High-quality, print-ready versions (11x17, 15x24, 23x36) are available as a freely downloadable .zip file.

Let's get these posters everywhere! The artist's only stipulation is that they cannot be sold, only given away.

Props to r.black for his amazing work!

Click here for more on November 17 actions planned for NYC.

559 Comments

559 Comments


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[-] 2 points by Adam (116) 3 years ago

So far all we have done is make noise. The fighting has not begun yet. We must take control of our money and give it back to the people it was stolen from.

[-] 2 points by BreadLandPeace (359) 3 years ago

No, the movement has not just made noise, it's already won big battles on behalf of the 99%--does anyone realize how much OWS saved us in bank fees? In my family, fees of $5/month times four ATM cards equals $20 a month, times 12 months = $240/year. Times ten years, say, and that's $2400 plus interest. That's just for four people. I can't imagine how many debit cards are out there, but $240/year times millions of people is a lot of money, even to the 1%. I don't think that's just making noise. Forcing the banks to drop their rip-off plans was a huge, tangible victory, not only symbolic but it improved our lives. And that happened how many weeks ago? It wasn't even two months!

I hope by fighting you don't mean escalating violent confrontations with the police, because as anyone can read, it's hurting the movement. Even the actions on the 17th, another incredibly fantastic idea, are going to be smaller than they could be thanks to people who want to substitute themselves for the masses of people. You can't do that, it just succeeds in isolating the movement, which the 1% wants

But I agree, it's going to take a huge fight and mass participation to take control of our money and our lives. So, please, please, everyone, don't fall for high stim getting arrested, winning what might seem like a battle but losing the (sorry for the cliche) war.

Solidarity.

[-] 1 points by foundingbaby (15) 3 years ago

FYI:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/14/business/banks-quietly-ramp-up-consumer-fees.html?scp=3&sq=bank%20fees&st=cse

"Facing a reaction from an angry public and heightened scrutiny from regulators, banks are turning to all sorts of fees that fly under the radar."

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/11/14/business/rising-bank-fees.html?scp=4&sq=bank%20fees&st=cse

"Banks are raising fees to make up for revenue declines elsewhere. GRAPHIC"

[-] -1 points by Adam (116) 3 years ago

Yes we must get violent and control the criminals. Banks fees? You are pathetic. I lost everything I slaved for. I want my money back. I want a real future for every person.

[-] -1 points by Bambi (359) 3 years ago

OWS did NOT have a thing to do with the banks. You are giving yourselves way too much credit.

[-] 1 points by BreadLandPeace (359) 3 years ago

If OWS didn't have anything to do with banks suddenly reversing their plans to gouge its debit-card users, the timing looks pretty suspicious.

[-] 2 points by hmmm (52) 3 years ago

Come on, do you think that consumers would have just laid down and taken the debit card fee? The banks actually aren't hurting that bad from losing customers (as they have more money than they can use atm - from what i've read), but the new fee was making their whole customer base rage.

Also, i've heard that the banks are slowly rolling in other little charges here and there, in a more subtle attempt at recouping the extra money that the credit card companies are charging them.

[-] 2 points by BreadLandPeace (359) 3 years ago

That's a very good point about the other sneaky ways the banks gouge customers. I remember David Bach, a financial educator who's devoting his life to educating people about money, saying that video stores actually make their money on late fees (he wrote some bestsellers--Finish Rich is his classic, and there's a lot of information on his finishrich website). And the credit card companies are the absolute worst, they get people in debt to where they can never climb out (pretty much what students are saying about loans, although the interest rates aren't remotely comparable).

But I doubt the banks would have willingly cut their profits if OWS hadn't made it too expensive for them politically. The customer base rage was there, but it took OWS and its tireless activism to organize it to the point that it actually forced some of the biggest banks in the country to back down.

Thanks for your reply.

[-] 1 points by socialmedic (178) 3 years ago

Student loans are not forgivable. You can't file for bankruptcy to get rid of them. You can't get rid of them at all. Furthermore, nobody is holding a gun to your head to take on credit card debt ... but for many many students it is either borrow or go though life uneducated, watching your better-off friends pass you by. You HAVE to borrow it and it is not exactly like borrowing to go on a shopping spree. You borrow so that you can slave for professors without pay for years and years and years to get a piece of paper that offers NO guarantees of employment and therefore NO guarantees of getting the means to pay the loans back. This is clearly the WORST kind of debt anybody can have. It punishes those who are not born rich for having an ambition, for trying to live the pursuit of life, liberty and happiness that is supposedly constituionally guaranteed everyone in the USA.

[-] 1 points by BreadLandPeace (359) 3 years ago

You're absolutely right, and education, which was once the privilege of the rich, is again becoming out of reach for most people. And maybe even worse, in the poorer neighborhoods, as many as thirty percent! of kids don't graduate from high school. It's not a drop-out rate, it's a push-out rate.

[-] 2 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 3 years ago

Hope you read (and share) my new article where I express my opinions as to where we go from here. Feel free to leave comments expressing your opinions. Its an important topic that needs to be discussed. sff

[-] 1 points by pepki (-13) 3 years ago

Reading it now. Very interesting, the part about watching out for a coup d'etat... You do realize our nation has already had a coup d'etat, right? When Gore was elected by the people, a small group of fascist right wingers in the govt decided to appoint Bush Jr as the president, the order went out to the Supreme Court, which is not constitutionally granted the power to choose a president. That, in effect was a bloodless coup d'etat. Your warning comes ten years too late, my friend. As a result we now have the anti Patriot fascist Act to deal with. They will use unmanned drones against US citizens. Mark my words.

[-] 1 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 3 years ago

"You do realize our nation has already had a coup d'etat, right? When Gore was elected by the people, a small group of fascist right wingers in the govt decided to appoint Bush Jr as the president"

There were sure lots of fishy things going on in that election with private companies counting votes, rigged voting machines etc, but it also shows that the electoral college should be dismantled. Its highly undemocratic when someone can get the majority of votes, but still not get elected by the college (like in 2000) One could also argue if the 08 bailout was a financial coup as argued in "Capitalism - a love story" however, the wealthy have been in power for a long time, though

Thanks for comment and interest. Please share! yours s sff

[-] 1 points by hiddenwheel (83) from Newton, MA 3 years ago

Regarding dismantling the Electoral College: If you eliminated the Electoral College politicians would focus all their campaigning only on densely populated places, That's where all the votes are. Rural communities would be completely marginalized. The problem isn't the electoral college it's the electoral system itself. One thing I think Occupy needs to do is to reach out to people in rural America. They're feeling the same crunch that people in cities are, but in a different way (when the economic crisis hits the sticks it's a form of desolation that most urbanites can't even fathom). Many people on the left think it's not worth even engaging in discourse with people from these areas. It's elitist! The powers that be behind the Democratic party (and the GOP for that matter) think this is great I'm sure. The divide between Rural and urban Americans has been a tool of distraction used since the founding of this country. The trick of the 2 party system: make sure people stay focused on hot button topics like, Abortion, The Death Penalty, Gun Control, Gay Marriage. Important issues indeed, but when people focus solely on them they don't notice as fundamental constitutional rights are slowly eroded. The reason corporations were created in the first place (centuries ago) was to stop people who started doing business among themselves without the involvement of feudal lords. The concept has always been Divide and Conquer. I fall on the left of all the above "hot button" topics but the focus here is something else. There is a small group of people whose blind greed is infringing on the rest of our right to be free. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

[-] 1 points by tsdevi (307) 3 years ago

Guaranteed Basic Income, because wealth distribution through employment will not work fast enough or reach far enough to boost the economy.

[-] 0 points by Dio1313 (69) 3 years ago

Come on dude. I honestly believed that you were one of the smart ones. You have a good dream, but do you honestly think that your dream will ever become reality? I can accept that you guys MIGHT make some changes, but "Guaranteed Basic Income." Sounds good yes, but I feel that you are honestly smart enough to know that will never happen.

[-] 0 points by richardweeks (-7) 3 years ago

Basically, you want to be supported by someone else, who is actually earning money.

[-] 0 points by raines (699) 3 years ago

"Guaranteed basic income?"
Having a job is not about wealth distrubution. It's about working . If you have a good idea, willing to work hard , you might succeed. Then again you might not. It's the risk you take. Or you can work for someone else. Whether you suceed is up to you , not a govt. A healthy ecomomy comes from a population with a good work ethic. It's about people , not govt guarantees.

[-] 1 points by tsdevi (307) 3 years ago

How very grim! Life is a risk without imposing extra burdens. Work for the sake of work is a dead end, as we now see. None of this kind of propaganda holds true in reality, only in the minds of those who have a vested interest in economic inequality. There is are only so many services that people can offer and it is becoming a joke. The production consumption model has reached its practical limit and we need to change how we live and work. Why should able bodied intelligent people be deprived of their dignity?

[-] 1 points by raines (699) 3 years ago

You consider work for the sake of working a dead end? How do you pay your bills? The govt does not owe anything to you in terms of money.
people have different talents. What you do with your life is up to you.

[-] 1 points by tsdevi (307) 3 years ago

Yeah, then why do I owe it in terms of labor? We are a government of the people, by the people and for the people and there is no mistake to designing government to suit the needs of all people. We need not be slaves to a failing economic system, as it does not even provide the bare minimum to so many, which leads to social chaos, unrest and conflict. This is not healthy for a society. Read the Federalist Papers, the U.S. Constitution, and other great minds that founded this country. I was not meant to be a worker/debtor prison, but a place where we could shed the burdens of aristocracy.

[-] 0 points by Dio1313 (69) 3 years ago

Everyone who was born in the United States was given an opportunity to succeed, even if you were born and raised in the ghetto. It is not our fault that some chose to be lazy and expect to have things handed to them. Hard work and dedication does pay off. I could go to any state in America and have a job within 3 weeks. It might not be the perfect job, but it would be a start. It would be something that I could do until I found something better or got promoted. These people just want it handed to them.

[-] 0 points by Adam (116) 3 years ago

Agree. Every person deserves a bare minimum living standard that comes with birth. These include food, shelter, and clothing. I have written stuff on my blog as well with ideas on how to go forward with democracy, freedom and public safety. http://thesillyparty.blogspot.com/

[-] 0 points by Dio1313 (69) 3 years ago

Who stole money? Give me specifics: Who was it? How much did they take? How did you (or them) earn the money in the first place? Did you (or them) file a police report? Can you (or them) show bank statements that show you actually had the money in the first place?

[-] 1 points by Adam (116) 3 years ago

Federal government..... $300,000 just from me, not counting the millions of other people who have had their entire working lives stolen....... Working....... Police the federal government? Why do you think there are mobs in the street?....... Yes......You going to give me my money back now that I am disabled and being left to die by social security?? Or are you just jerking off over here?

[-] 0 points by hmmm (52) 3 years ago

Dude, stop going on about getting money! It looks bad when you're so overtly chasing your own personal gain, and IMHO, it cheapens the spirit of this movement.

[-] 2 points by Adam (116) 3 years ago

Don't talk to me about personal gain. I want my money back is all. I want every person to have their needs met. Not just mine. Read my shit. Money must be used to solve the medium term problems. We can get off money once it is all shared and everyone has thier own place.

[-] 0 points by Bambi (359) 3 years ago

Who ASKED you to do that "for" them????????

[-] 2 points by Adam (116) 3 years ago

I don't need to be asked. My destiny calls and I go. It's called responsibility. Something that escapes the average american.

[-] 0 points by Blue (2) 3 years ago

Who had money stolen from them? No one put a gun to anyone's head to insert themselves into a financial situation they couldn't afford? It is not your G-d given right to own a home, it is yours, however, to work hard and keep out of debt. It is your right to sign up for financial loans for education and it is your responsibility to pay off that contract. There is no Free Lunch, except where you and your protest friends eat, however, who do you think pays for that? Someone is working their behind off to get that food to you.

If this protest continues, you will all be playing 'Lord of the Flies' and 'Animal Farm' all at once.. go ahead and rebuild your new society.. keep me out of it.. I have worked hard all of my life, never overextended what I could pay and I like being comfortable.

[-] 2 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 3 years ago

they are called weapons of mass distraction.

[-] 1 points by shoesandtables (20) 3 years ago

****Here's a video showing the "Wealth Gap" in the U.S. - It is useful to see it visually. Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7tmZv1o5Ac

[-] 1 points by pepki (-13) 3 years ago

No one invited you to be part of this if you don't want to be. So stay out of it, keep your selfish comments to yourself as well, and enjoy your cozy couch and Jersey Shore while our educated young people fight for a future we over 40 screwed up with our ignorance & greed. As for Lord of the Flies, you obviously haven't been to any Occupy location so you remain willfully ignorant of the beauty of these young people, and what they can teach us old folks.
There's much to learn from the clear eyes of youth free of the veil of lies and deception.

[-] 1 points by Blue (2) 3 years ago

Just a minute... I thought that you were all over this democracy thing! I have every right to post my thoughts just like you do. I don;t consider my comment selfish, and I detest the Jersey Shore.. you have no idea... I am over 40 and I didn't screw up.. did you?..

'Willfully ignorant' is completely incorrect and insulting.. I have been following tis 'episode' in history since its inception. I shake my head.

Since when has there not been a youth free of the veil of lies and deception? We have all been there(us over 40), yet, they are fortunate to not have yet experienced the arrows life will be throwing at them.. it is called growing up and becoming responsible for oneself. I am not reassured that this will be the outcome of this OWS movement.

[-] -3 points by Dio1313 (69) 3 years ago

You guys are such Drama Queens.

[-] 1 points by tsdevi (307) 3 years ago

Your a melodrama Queen!

[-] 0 points by Dio1313 (69) 3 years ago

Nice

[-] 1 points by ediblescape (235) 3 years ago

Great.

[-] 6 points by MBJ (96) 3 years ago

Yes, because all most all of the 1% ride the subway to work.

[-] 1 points by Archaevist (15) 3 years ago

Exactly. This will do nothing but make the WRONG people pissed at occupiers.

[-] 1 points by bored (17) 3 years ago

again.

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[-] 0 points by therising (6643) 3 years ago

Fantastic poster. Image reminiscent of Tienaneman will resonate with much of America. We all honored that spirit of democracy in that brave man and now we can be him.

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 3 years ago

or rather the 99%

could be a good place to rally them

[-] 4 points by OccupyYourSelf (11) 3 years ago

The backlash has begun:

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Occupy-Wall-Street-Protest-of-the-Protest-Businesses-Residents-City-Hall-133796083.html

You're annoying people and accomplishing nothing. How about giving it a rest already?

[-] 4 points by NonParticipant (151) 3 years ago

I am not a supporter of OWS, but...

First, proofread.

Second, this poster stirs up feelings of communism, violence, Marx, Stalin, Russia, China, oppression, bad things. I see the opposite of "peacefully assembling", and to portray the 99% as all being the same is so far from the truth. You guys can't even agree within your own little camp. If I was on the fence about you guys, this poster would absolutely turn me off.

Bad bad horrible bad communication of your "demands."

[-] 3 points by thinkbot (3) 3 years ago

Totally agree. This is a complete messaging FAIL. Fire that kid. Design wise, very well done, but the message it sends to those that ALREADY want to make Communist connections is that we fashion ourselves as a bunch of Marxists. The corollary would be making a Tea Party Rally poster that used a Dixie motif. Stop with the propaganda inspired posters, use your head. Don't we have anyone in advertising over there?

[-] 1 points by KeepOregonGreen (-6) 3 years ago

Well stated Thinkbot!

[-] 3 points by nichole (525) 3 years ago

I agree Non Participant, and I am an OWS supporter. How long will this remain non-violent? Every NYPD officer will be forced to abandon their families on Thanksgiving Day ... yet more bad PR.

[-] -2 points by tsdevi (307) 3 years ago

That is THERE choice, not the choice of the Occupy Movement. Again, the police are hired to maintain the status quo, which is broken and dysfunctional. Why should anyone be allowed to pretend that the situation is alright? If the police do not want to threaten and tear gas and beat people on ThG, then they should not. Choices, its time we remember that we have them.

[-] 2 points by jdnreha (85) 3 years ago

tsdevi, way way before OWS was even an idea, the police made and oath and swore to uphold the laws. So why it is a "choice", its going against there morals, ideas and dreams. Is OWS a my way or you will be punished type of movement, or is it a lets make the world better? Why do so many OWS not care how they hurt so many people?

[-] 1 points by TheFred (43) from Clinton, IL 3 years ago

You are exactly correct. I seriously thought about joining up with our local Occupy group so I started perusing here to get a sense of the movement. After about a week after seeing too much of what you described, the hurt, anger, intolerance and unwillingness to listen to the 98%, I am reasonably sure I can't join in. Maybe later if their objectives are clearly written out, the hangers-on, vandal types are chased off, and I start seeing true discussions I may reconsider. I've been so disappointed with what I've seen here and at other OWS sites I've even cancelled my extended vacation.

[-] 0 points by Thinkdeer (250) 3 years ago

The Internet is a haven for crazies, go in person and check it out, I think you will find more sanity.

[-] 0 points by tsdevi (307) 3 years ago

Not all laws are worthy of being upheld. Not to mention that crime happens within the rank and file of law enforcement, this should come as no surprise. Cops are people too, they have the same interests. Their lives and safety would only benefit from a more just, less violent society and that is what standing up for economic justice is about. OWS does not hurt people, if they were hurting people why would people be donating money to them? Stop watching Fox "News," as it poisons the brain.

[-] 1 points by itsybitsycheater (38) from Center Valley, PA 3 years ago

" if they were hurting people why would people be donating money to them?"

Soros stupid.

[-] 1 points by jdnreha (85) 3 years ago

I love the assumption that i watch fox news. True, noat all laws are worthy of being upheld, for the laws that you feel should not be upheld, have you started a petention to have them removed from the books? If so, send me the link and I will sign the ones I feel should be removed, and the one's I dont, ill send a reply of why not. As far as not hurting people, thats more or less a matter of how you want to look at it. Just because people donate money to a cause, that does not mean anything.

[-] 0 points by imstillhere (6) 3 years ago

Why do so many OWS not care how they hurt so many people?

All 99%ers are equal, but some are more equal than others.

[-] -1 points by bjanarch (23) 3 years ago

Who has the movement hurt? The hundreds of people it feeds? The millions of people it gives a voice to?

No? Maybe it's Mayor Bloomberg then, who has to worry about a bunch of long haired hippies raping each other in a park? Or is it the main-streem media that has to actually think to come up with such absurd allegations?

From experience in the park, I can tell you that it is a lets make the world better type of movement. If you haven't been to an occupation, please do check it out, because there are hundreds of people there with love for their fellow people and ideas that have gone too long unheard. Start a conversation with an open mind. Make your voice heard, not about tactics, but about what you think will make the world better. Because that's what the movement's about, and no small tactical mistake (nor can a violent eviction) undermine these ideas.

[-] 1 points by jdnreha (85) 3 years ago

So, what if I dont agree with the ideas of OWS? What if I belive its not wallstreet (where companies are traded, not ran / managed). But its the government? The failure of the people making there Representatives responsible and accountable? Most of the people I have talked to at the parks have never sent a letter / e-mail / phone call / in person / class room note / ect to the people they elected to represent them, yet demand change from the people that dont control the ambiguous change that is demanded. However, the underlining question is, OWS way or you will be punished type of movement?

[-] 0 points by Dio1313 (69) 3 years ago

"THEIR"

[-] -3 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 3 years ago

Thanksgiving is nothing but a lie, anyway. Rather than really having a nice and cozy dinner with the indigenous people here, the white people slaughtered as many as they could.... after they received welfare from those same indigenous people. And we are taught the damn lie all the way through school. The nice little mental picture we have in our minds was created by some woman for a magazine article.... and people don't bother to check it out to see if it's accurate or not.... which it isn't in the least.

Americans need to stop living in damn lies and figure out exactly what it is they are standing up for.

[-] 2 points by Dio1313 (69) 3 years ago

Now you are attacking Thanksgiving? Geez, don't you have something better to do?

[-] 2 points by Bambi (359) 3 years ago

She should go back to Switzerland where they don''t have Thanksgiving

[-] 1 points by Dio1313 (69) 3 years ago

I agree. Some people have themselves convinced that they are so smart that everyone needs to hear their opinions. I have read a lot of her post and she is not even half as smart as she thinks she is. Seems like this is a stupid forum to be bagging on Thanksgiving.

[-] 2 points by Bambi (359) 3 years ago

Maybe we all need to gobble gobble as a protest to her hatred of T-Day

[-] 1 points by Dio1313 (69) 3 years ago

Too much effort, she doesn't deserve it. I will just hang out with friends and family drinking beer, having a great time, and enjoying a good meal. Happy Thanksgiving to you though.

[-] 1 points by Bambi (359) 3 years ago

The same to you, Dio. :-)

[-] 1 points by itsybitsycheater (38) from Center Valley, PA 3 years ago

And what is your truth? Is there a single society or culture that hasn't oppressed and killed another culture?

Get over it. You're crying like a baby about a history you and I had nothing to do with. There's plenty of lies to go both ways. What can you possibly do to change the past? NOTHING.

[-] 1 points by BreadLandPeace (359) 3 years ago

Watch your sexism please ("created by some woman for a magazine article").

[-] 0 points by Theundecidedpercent (24) 3 years ago

Wow, you really are one angry little girl. You really, really hate Whites, must suck to hate yourself so much! One day you will realise that every single race on this planet has done evil, not just the White race. Once you realise that, you will also realise just how much GOOD the White race has done too.

When that happens, I wish I could be a fly on the wall.

[-] 1 points by pfuentes (-4) 3 years ago

The scene from the poster shows the anti-communist uprising at Tienanmen Sq., China. This movement and the uprising in China share common goals of opposing injustice and articulating popular frustration at an unresponsive regime. Luckily there is precedent for change in this country, and we have secured freedoms at least to the extent that we won't have to face tanks.

[-] 6 points by NonParticipant (151) 3 years ago

I know exactly what the poster is taken from. It still looks dark and menacing to me. My opinion.

[-] 4 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 3 years ago

Agreed. The look of the poster is a direct appropriation of propaganda posters in Russia around 1917. (Go to the Museum of Modern Art to see examples, or Google "russian propaganda posters".) I don't think that taking the graphic style associated with Socialist revolution and Stalin is going to win over many supporters in this country.

I am a big supporter of OWS, (and I think the poster is beautiful, too) but I think this is inappropriate and self-defeating.

I feel the same way about Occupy the Subway. I am absolutely certain that it is a harmful, counterproductive thing to do. We want to gain support, not harm and alienate our fellow workers. This will CLEARLY do the latter,

[-] 0 points by itsybitsycheater (38) from Center Valley, PA 3 years ago

It already has. OWS is a pitiful, putrid stench-like, public masturbation-like, public defecation-like, rape-like, head lice-like, body lice-like, STD-like, filthy, shanty-like, urination-like, total squalor FAIL.

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 3 years ago

I haven't the least idea why you would feel that way about OWS, a movement that, at its core is demanding a return to uncorrupted democracy, not subversion of the country. They are risking their own physical well-being for the sake of this nation. If that's not genuine patriotism, as opposed lip-synching hollow predigested slogans, I don't know what is.

I happen to think they make some tactical mistakes on occasion, but I am astonished by the overall heart, courage, stamina and intelligence of the movement. Some exhibit a youthful exuberance that borders on absolutism, and doesn't always find the most appropriate expression, but that tends to show up more on these fora than in the streets, where they are among more level headed folks who lead by example.

And that example is magnificent.

[-] 1 points by sfmadman (9) 3 years ago

Wonderful, epa. Probably not relevant, but I like your writing style. Anyway, this is definitely how I see OWS, too.

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 3 years ago

Thank you. That's very kind. I DO have to work on my sense of diplomacy, though.

Again, thank you for your generous words.

[-] 0 points by Archaevist (15) 3 years ago

Should we shut down a style of art because it was used at the beginning of a successful revolution?

[-] 3 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 3 years ago

That's a bit melodramatic, and inappropriately moralistic.

Nobody is talking about banishing a style of art, but about the appropriateness of its use in this specific CONTEXT.

Propaganda/advertising is not about the artist or the art. It is about selling the idea to your audience, whether that idea is a washing machine or a call to action. It's not about getting on a high horse about artistic integrity or historical value. It is about appealing to the audience. Its about what you're trying to accomplish, a poster headed for the museum vs. a poster inspiring people to join you.

Whatever you personally think about them, the revolutions that led to the forming of the USSR and Communist China are not viewed as "successful" by the overwhelming majority of Americans, the very people you want to join you. Just the opposite. Nor are such revolutions the aim of this movement. So using a style that points to these revolutions, hated by almost everyone, is hardly the most effective way to gain supporters for a populist movement. The first rule in advertising is never create a negative association your audience has with your product.

Again, what are you trying to accomplish? Proving you are right about history or attracting people to your cause?

[-] 0 points by Archaevist (15) 3 years ago

You know, you're right. I didn't think of it like that. I personally am a fan of constructivism, which was why i leapt to its defense. But you're absolutely right. Just because a lot of communists are standing under our tentpole right now, doesn't mean we don't want more people in it.

What art style would you suggest? Modern Commercial advertising? (That's not me being facetious. I think that would do well.)

Additionally, I think there should be a branch devoted to advertising.

[-] 4 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 3 years ago

But he style of the poster is direct reference to (in fact a complete appropriation of) Stalinist propaganda posters in the old USSR. That is harmful to OWS, as it further alienates people who already mistakenly believe we are nothing but a bunch of unwashed Bolsheviks.

This is not a new communist revolution. It is a call to government accountability and economic equity. Why confuse the issue with references that - rightly or wrongly - make people reject the movement for the wrong reasons?

We need to attract more people, not make more people more wary of us.

[-] -2 points by bubul (18) 3 years ago

Stalinist propaganda actually didn't look like this--it was mostly sentimental images of farmers and workers getting along and holding hands. The more sharp-edged, modern-looking stuff was from the early 1920's, before the Soviet Union turned into a nightmare.

[-] 5 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 3 years ago

I am an artist and know well the history of that period and style. Hundreds, if not thousands of these kinds of images explicitly propagandized Stalin and Lenin. Yes, it later became academic social realism, but that wasn't until much, much later. Even then, this style persisted.

But the exact history is utterly unimportant. The fact that MOST PEOPLE associate these images to Stalin and Lenin is far more to the point. Are we to correct their art history as well as their economic/political views? Why create this as an issue at all? It is, to say the least, ill-advised. The general PERCEPTION by non-artists or historians is what I'm talking about. One doesn't sell a new car by showing images of an Edsel and claiming, however correctly, that is was a well-made car. Purposefully using images that have negative connotations for the general public is counterproductive..

There is no reason for using this style other than unnecessary provocation or being so enamored of one's self that the broad effect is not considered. The effect is what is important, not just on the members of the movement, but far more importantly, on those outside of it. Using a style that MOST people associate with very negative events does the opposite of furthering the cause. It is an example of narcissism.

[-] 3 points by nichole (525) 3 years ago

Thank you, well-stated. I don't think that the anti-capitalist bloc that is calling for the Wall Street shutdown much cares who they are alienating. 99% Yeah right. 5-10% if they're lucky. Anyone who follows these "leaders" is ill-advised.

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 3 years ago

Just to make myself clear, I SUPPORT OWS. My concerns have to do with the movement's well being and growth.

Yes, there are a few young anti-capitalists among them. I don't think this poster represents that group, but is simply ill-conceived, and thoughtless about the purpose of public relations.

[-] 0 points by bjanarch (23) 3 years ago

"There are a few young anti-capitalists among them"

I think that if we begin to write off certain members of the movement because of their political beliefs, we let the powers that be win. I don't think you were necessarily writing them off, but definitely apologizing for them. The beauty of the movement is that it can't be boxed into a sound byte description for CNN, and this is because of its fundamental horizontal structure that values everybody's opinions equally.

The basic problem that led to our country's decline, and I mean very basic, as in the very root, is the ability of one group of people to discredit another group of people's ideas just by slapping a label on it. McCarthy was a great example of this, and it has been repeated, albeit more subtly, many times since then. If we adapt this practice and throw away our horizontal foundation of mutual respect, not because of who people are but simply because they are, nothing will change regardless of whether we win or not. We could have a fullblown revolution, but if we adapt this practice, a new 1% will rise, and they will continue to rape the environment, rape their fellow human beings, and rape the foundations of the movement that brought them to power.

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 3 years ago

Agreed. My using the phrase was in response to Nichole's post and was intended as mostly descriptive, not judgmental.

I share with you the notion that inclusiveness if a very positive aspect of the movement. There will come a time, though, when conflicting ideas will need to be sorted out. That time is not now.

[-] -1 points by NonParticipant (151) 3 years ago

I understood that you support OWS and that is your right. But I was glad to have support from within the ranks that this poster will not help the cause.

[-] 0 points by NonParticipant (151) 3 years ago

Like. Like. Like. Thank you for backing up my emotional response to this poster.

[-] 3 points by velveeta (230) 3 years ago

The poster is lame. This isn't China. You guys should be protesting in the hallway of Spencer Bachus' office.

“Forget Pelosi, Here’s The Most Stunning Detail From The Congressional Insider Trading Report,” reads the title of a post at BusinessInsider, which continues, “the most shocking revelation actually concerns a lesser-known Congressman, Rep. Spencer Bachus, who shorted the market as the economy collapsed in 2008.”

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1111/68319.html#ixzz1dhxJB4QS

[-] 1 points by sfmadman (9) 3 years ago

"...we have secured freedoms at least to the extent that we won't have to face tanks..."

...yet. Alhough, if OWS succeeds, I can hope we never will. I hope the armed forces will realize that they are supposed to protect US before the elite can turn them on us.

[-] 1 points by itsybitsycheater (38) from Center Valley, PA 3 years ago

ROFLMAO!!! Oh yea, the OWS protesters have SO much in common with the oppressed people who died at Tienanmen Square. The scene from the poster shows no such thing. Don't be a tool.

[-] 0 points by KeepOregonGreen (-6) 3 years ago

The two are NOTHING alike! Read your history.

[-] 0 points by nichole (525) 3 years ago

American eyes have been trained to not only reject this aesthetic, but to blot out the existence of anyone marching under the colors red and black.

[-] -1 points by tsdevi (307) 3 years ago

Yes, it is time for We the People to stand up and be counted!

[-] 0 points by vanorman (-2) 3 years ago

Psalm 123: 4 Have mercy upon us, O LORD, have mercy, * for we have had more than enough of contempt,

5 Too much of the scorn of the indolent rich, * and of the derision of the proud.

[-] -1 points by NonParticipant (151) 3 years ago

I'm sorry, are you replying to me? I'm not sure what your point is.

[-] 0 points by tsdevi (307) 3 years ago

This is not a marketing campaign, no frills, no pretense. People are afraid of a great many things. Working to create a more equitable society should not be one of them, as we see what it leads to with todays' political and economic climate.

[-] 2 points by NonParticipant (151) 3 years ago

In my opinion, and my opinion only, this poster looks menacing, dark and war-like. I see nothing that looks peaceful or non-violent. It looks like something that would be on a Chinese, North Korean or Russian wall, not a wall in America.

I also object to the portrayal of the 99% as all looking exactly alike, standing in rows like the people's army, like comrades standing shoulder to shoulder. Looks like military to me.

In my opinion.

[-] -2 points by tsdevi (307) 3 years ago

Okay, calm down, the image is directly taken from the 1989 protests in China, where a young woman stands in front of the tank, look it up. It is a beautiful image for its peaceful audacity. We all will have to stand up for our rights if we want to keep them.

[-] 1 points by betsydoula (143) from Beverly Hills, FL 3 years ago

I am a supporter of OWS and a long time activist. When I first looked at the poster I thought it made no sense to call it non-violent and then show tanks. It will definitely not go over big with any fence sitters. If you are trying to win them over this wouldn't be the way to do it. Just my gut reaction to the visual.

[-] 0 points by bubul (18) 3 years ago

I agree that it's important to win people over, but the police have used excessive force in a lot of places so far (have you seen the video from Chapel Hill?) It wouldn't be right to just ignore that.

[-] 1 points by NonParticipant (151) 3 years ago

The average American will not have the background of the image, so they won't know OWS means it as a beautiful image for its peaceful audacity. I don't care where it's taken from. I am telling you what emotions and thoughts this poster elicits from me when I look at it. That's all. Period.

[-] 1 points by imstillhere (6) 3 years ago

Sad that your good comment require so many disclaimers and so many re-posts. The voice of OWS couldn't care less about anyone who isn't of one mind with the most radical element among them, but that's just me, maybe I'm wrong, only my gut feel, just sayin'.

[-] -1 points by tsdevi (307) 3 years ago

Okay.

[-] 0 points by jdnreha (85) 3 years ago

I agree with NonParticipant. While the image is based off of 1989 protests in China, it portrays more than that. The 99% are a melting pot of people from all walks of life, and not that of a military stance. Red is an aggressive color, yet it clams peace? And why the tanks? To me that looks more like government propaganda, but its coming from OWS? Is this what we can expect OWS movement to accomplish? over the top government propaganda?

[-] 1 points by imstillhere (6) 3 years ago

Is this what we can expect OWS movement to accomplish? over the top government propaganda?

Yes. This allows them to justify their violence and play the victim card at the same time.

[-] 0 points by chunkylover (27) 3 years ago

The image references Tiananmen Square, the style is Constructivism, the graphic arts style of the early Soviet State. It's not meant to appeal to the 99%. This movement uses the constructivist style, the color red, and antique communist jargon constantly. It's not by accident. If you believe that life in America right now is so unbearable for the vast majority of people that an American Holodomor or Great Leap Forward would actually be an improvement, or if its simply mass starvation that you're after, this is the right movement for you.

If you believe that we can stop the Banks from robbing the people without handing over power to something much, much worse, a movement doesn't exist for you yet. The sooner you realize just what you've gotten into, the sooner you can get out and maybe do something positive.

[-] -1 points by lecorsaire (25) 3 years ago

OWS is really when you think about it a Marxist style movement. Any movement that cries for equality and equal and fair distribution of wealth is communist based whether they realize it or not.

[-] -1 points by titus (13) 3 years ago

They are NOT "crying" for equality. Only for equality under the law. 14 trillions of OUR money redistributed to the banks and you blame the victims?

[-] 0 points by lecorsaire (25) 3 years ago

What did you want idiot? For the entire economy to collapse and the world to have been paralyzed? That's exactly what would have happened.And what are you talking about your money, you filthy ass hipster. Most of you guys are nothing more than failed artist bums.

[-] 1 points by titus (13) 3 years ago

I just like to let you know that there is nothing I could answer to you without degrading the conversation to more insults and unreasoned theories.

[-] -1 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 3 years ago

those things you described are failed people's revolutions. why wouldn't the people want to honor their comrades in thought.

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 3 years ago

Because that's not who is honored, and that's not the point. The original posters this one references were largely sanctioned by the likes of Stalin and Lenin. The revolution brought forth, not worker's rights but despotism.

MUCH more important, despotism and oppression - rightly or wrongly, it doesn't matter - is what is associated with those posters. They are not associated with today's "comrades" in virtually anyone's mind.

It is critical to keep one's eyes on the prize. That prize is not to give honor to fallen heroes or anyone else for that matter. The prize is to gain a critical mass of support for some basic ideas about economic fairness and political accountability. One doesn't do that by alienating people who would otherwise lend that support. Referencing Stalinist and Leninist propaganda vehicles does not help gain the prize. Instead, it makes people wary of our goals.

Finally, since those goals are not Socialism. Communism, Capitalism, Libertarianism, or any other ism, the poster misrepresents this movement entirely and does a disservice to it.

Eyes on the prize, eyes on the prize. Anything else is harmful.

[-] 0 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 3 years ago

i think i know what despotism is, and it is being afraid to go to jail if i'm minimum wage worker; fear to be extracted as a middle class tax payer, or fear to go corrupt if I try real hard. my conscience only allows me to take my chances with the cops as a minimum wage worker.

[-] 3 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 3 years ago

Again, keep your eyes on the prize. If you advertise this movement (and that's what a poster is: advertising) as anything having to do with Stalin or Lenin, you will lose supporters. Whether that's fair or not isn't the point. The point is growing the movement's numbers. Whatever takes away from that is doing the movement harm.

I am not saying that your feelings are not real or justified, But the action taken (distributing a poster that the majority of people associate with the USSR or Mao, or occupying the subways) needs to further the goal of strengthening the movement, so the reasons for your feeling can be addressed concretely, If we want to change the system, we can't alienate everybody in it. Instead, we have to convert them. As the old adage goes, you attract more flies with honey than with vinegar. Let's not throw vinegar into the faces of those we want as allies.

[-] 0 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 3 years ago

yes, i see your point, but i never wormed(sic) up to deceptive advertising, but yes it should be palatable to the masses.

[-] 3 points by Toynbee (656) from Savannah, GA 3 years ago

The system is broken. Get it?

The people are saying that they do not yield their sovereignty to the bodies that serve them.

** The people insist on remaining informed.

** The people insist on retain control over the legislative bodies they have created.

By the "people" retaining control, I do not mean the corporations -- regardless of what a handful of old men on the U.S. Supreme Court say. They are not people. Change the law or step down from office.

By the "people" retaining control, I do not mean the lobbyists for the wealthy, the large corporations, the elite. I mean citizens. All people.

The struggling students who represent America's future. Our students are not profit centers for a greedy corporate aristocracy. Stop it. Stop it now!!

[Removed]

[-] 3 points by Joeschmoe1000 (270) 3 years ago

Listen dicks -

If you get in the way on the subway, someone will push your girlfriend onto the third rail....

And they you will cry.

[Removed]

[-] 3 points by raines (699) 3 years ago

You're beating a dead horse.

[-] 3 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 3 years ago

One thing that's funny is how Occupy always claims to be non-violent, but then the graphic art associated with the movement often displays violence like these tanks. I know it's inspired by art of the yore, and that the tanks are there to exaggerate the oppression we are feeling from society. These propaganda tactics are well known as communist tactics. The colors, the feel, etc...

I guess I just wish Occupy would create a whole new imagery of its own. Not happy hippy, but something really positive that doesn't hold to the communist or anarchy feel of yesteryear. Something really positive. A new positive anarchy, without tanks, etc...

I guess I'm talking in the wind. Everyone likes the poster. OK, I'll shut up now.

[-] 3 points by owstag (508) 3 years ago

You're right. It also has creepy, USSR-esque imagery. It's very 1984. That and the red coloring (wink wink, nudge nudge) exudes leftist fringe. This sort of imagery will turn off 7 people for every 1 it attracts. Most people are fed up with politicians being bought off by wealthy contributors ("the 1%"), but they're not leftist ideologues. They seek reform, not 'revolution'. If you're going to talk for 'the 99%' you can't espouse the cranky rhetoric of the lunatic fringe.

[-] 3 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 3 years ago

The plan seems very clear to me. Very clear.

[-] 1 points by imstillhere (6) 3 years ago

It's sad to see the other comments defending it the other way around, saying that the poster is red because "the man" is just like China or whatever. They say things like that and then the next minute they advocate socialism as the answer. Come on.

[-] 1 points by sfmadman (9) 3 years ago

Your statement clearly shows that you have no idea what socialism is. Socialism is a form of democracy, a government of the working class (in other words, the PEOPLE). I personally would not agree that Stalinism (as seen in the USSR and China) is true socialism. The protestors in Tiananman Square were faced with a monster similar to the one we face: a government that PRETENDS to be democratic but actually is NOT.

[-] 1 points by Idaltu (662) 3 years ago

If you "shut up" it will give the 1% exactly what they want..SILENCE from the 99%, The truth is that even the Trolls help the movement by keeping this board active and moving...the world is watching, and any noise about the movement is PR for OWS. The point is getting discussion so it is in the forefront. Of course we would all like good PR but if there is no noise at all there is no movement.

As to the poster: well it does what it was intended to do...a blast into the consciousness! Tanks do the job....flowers would have all the impact of a butterfly. OWS is non-violent, but the powers in control are not. And this poster is demonstrating the violence of the powers in control and NOT OWS.

[-] 1 points by itsybitsycheater (38) from Center Valley, PA 3 years ago

N17 isn't non-violent. They rely on useful idiots who are ignorant of history to follow them like the pied piper. "The organization’s first known attack came in December 1975, when the CIA’s Athens station chief was shot with a .45-caliber pistol, November 17’s favorite weapon. Since then, the group has claimed responsibility for twenty-one murders, including the killings of a U.S. Navy captain, a U.S. defense attaché, a Turkish diplomat, and a British defense attaché. November 17’s initial attacks were directed at senior U.S. officials and Greek public figures, but during the 1980s the group expanded its operations to include bombings of ordinary citizens and property." Does that answer your question? Anyone who associates with this group is another useful idiot for the NWO.

[-] 1 points by sfmadman (9) 3 years ago

OWS, please be careful. If it's unintentional, then distance yourselves from any imagery and/or phrases that make you seem associated with N 17. Please remain non-violent and independent, and continue to push for real democracy.

[-] 1 points by PunkDork21 (1) from Daly City, CA 3 years ago

They chose red because red is a color of great passion and has been used as such for a long time. By the tanks they are representing the banks and government as large structured vehicles of destruction. It is a play on the infamous "tank man" who stood up to 3 TANKS in Tienanmen Square. He represented much bravery for the people and it is a very powerful connection. Personally I believe there is much more needed to be done than just tax the rich but i see what you mean about it not being quite positive but than again this isn't a very positive situation but powerful nevertheless

[-] 1 points by patriot1949 (4) 3 years ago

has nothing to do with Tienanmen square

[-] 0 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 3 years ago

If red is not for communism, then why are some of OWS posters exact replicas of propaganda posters used by Russian communists of yesteryears?

[-] 0 points by itsybitsycheater (38) from Center Valley, PA 3 years ago

That's a crock. The tanks in no way stand for the tanks at Tienanmen Square. I'm thinking GREEK. Unless I'm giving them too much credit. Could be.The OWS protesters certainly haven't demonstrated any intellect with the movement. All the intellect is at the top with Soros, SEIU, AFL-CIO, CAIR, and The Communist Party of America.

[-] 1 points by journeyo (0) 3 years ago

It seems like there's no question we are embodying "the change we want to see" in remaining a non-violent , global movement and asserting the solutions to the crises we're turning to face, en masse. Why are we using visual imagery that defines us only in contrast to a "dominating authority"? Isn't that still allowing "them" to lead/win? We have a chance to redefine the context of the whole conversation with our imagery and lead, esp since the whole world is watching. I'm not a designer but hope we can start contributing positive visual cues of leadership to finally replace "opposition" that acknowledges some "dominant authority".

[-] 0 points by patriot1949 (4) 3 years ago

They are marxist and communists working with anarchists and moslem extremests to destroy the U.S.A. they are using people for their agenda wake up when they are done with you watch out

[-] 0 points by titus (13) 3 years ago

Violent graphics (according to your interpretation) are never the less freedom of speech. Do you have a problem with that?

[-] 1 points by itsybitsycheater (38) from Center Valley, PA 3 years ago

No, violent graphics are an expression of an inner anger. Freedom of speech. Violent ACTIONS aren't an expression of freedom of speech. Which leads me to this question, why use violent illustration if there is no intention to be violent? Trying to incite violence? Just saying.

[-] 0 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 3 years ago

I don't have a problem with freedom of speech at all. I'm simply making a distinction between speech that is peaceful and speech that is violent. I'm not saying they cannot advocate non-violence while marketing themselves with violent imagery, I'm simply saying that we should be aware of it. I'm using my freedom of speech to make that clear because I believe people who are going to follow Occupy have a right to know what it is (according to my interpretation). They can decide for themselves if my interpretation is flawed. Don't you think?

Do you have a problem with that, or do you believe I shouldn't have freedom of speech?

[-] 0 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 3 years ago

an anarchy of understanding.

[-] 0 points by Bambi (359) 3 years ago

Don't shut up. Your thoughts are right on target. I said the same thing in a posting. Lo and behold mine got deleted. I merely said it was negative with the tanks and the anger is not on a positive plain. One cannot expect anyone to understand them without a positive tone to it. The way they are coming across is that they are wacked out drugged up rapists and thieves.

[-] 2 points by poster (2) 3 years ago

This is weird. Sounds like you guys and the Tea Party want the same things! How did Americans fall so far apart? Think of what could be accomplished if everyone works together to take back control of our country. We may not know what forces we allowed to divide us, but if we let it continue, we surely will fall. United we stand! Link arms and stand together.

[-] 2 points by stevo (314) 3 years ago

By the way, you can all pick up your North Face tents, and personal belongings,,, at the city dump....next to the sludge pile

[-] 2 points by raines (699) 3 years ago

Cheap rip off art of Tianamen Square.

[Removed]

[-] 2 points by martis (2) from Brooklyn, NY 3 years ago

disrupting the subway is the number one way to turn the entire city population against you. not smart.

[-] 2 points by OWSrPATHETIC (4) 3 years ago

please occupy the subway. that way we don't have to see or smell you. we take cabs or limo's. suck on that

[-] 2 points by lonespectator (106) 3 years ago

Once again an example of the failure of OWS to do anything to truly progress the movement to the source in DC. These foolish assemblies in NYC have done nothing but taint you position and rapidly lose support. Nov 6th, you had the opportunity to promote "Occupy the White House" but chose to secretly support "stop the pipeline while working with the DNC and (I've since discovered) the National Democractic Socilist Party. This is why you are falling apart at the General Assembly level, and continue to attract the Black Bloc Anarchists.. Stop this foolishness in NYC now, and Amass at the White House to Occupy the White House..Occupy the peoples house and Congress. OWH. That is what the majority of the Occupy movement is calling for, and now seems to be landing on "deaf ears" as this Nov. 17th operation will prove. This is your end..Your self-destruction. GO TO WASHINGTON..The Capitol Police will not steal your tents and Generators. OWH..Take your demands to the source. The President supports you and wants you there now. OWH Now!!!

[-] 1 points by itsybitsycheater (38) from Center Valley, PA 3 years ago

I agree with all but the last part. The President only supports you if you stay on Wall Street. Obama is as corrupt as the best of them. But, it would be fun to see OWS at the White House. Obama would pee his pants.

[-] 2 points by thomas888 (4) 3 years ago

Hey Super Committee! Whats the deal! Welfare for Millionaires?

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2011/11/13/coburn-report-welfare-for-millionaires.html

A startling new report reveals the billions in government dollars that benefit America’s wealthiest citizens Class warfare is a politically charged term these days, from the Wall Street protests to the Capitol Hill negotiations over curtailing the nation’s debt. But a new congressional analysis, obtained by Newsweek, may fuel populist outrage by showing the extent of government subsidies that go to the wealthiest people in America.

From unemployment payments to subsidies and tax breaks on luxury items like vacation homes and yachts, Americans earning more than $1 million collect more than $30 billion in government largesse each year, according to the report assembled by Sen. Tom Coburn, a Republican from Oklahoma, who is so often at odds with members of both parties that colleagues call him “Dr. No.” The Internal Revenue Service provided the data showing how much money was going to the much-referenced top 1 percent.

In all, millionaires receive hefty help from Uncle Sam. The $30 billion in handouts, to put it in perspective, amounts to twice as much as the government spends on NASA, and three times the budget of the Environmental Protection Agency. On the other hand, it would only cover the cost of fighting about three months in Iraq and Afghanistan. Still, eliminating them would help make a small dent in the $1.5 trillion congressional leaders are trying to find by Thanksgiving.

[-] 2 points by Thinkdeer (250) 3 years ago

putting the 'me' back in november?

whoops.

[-] 2 points by zoe (67) 3 years ago

Good eye. Poster's been fixed :)

[-] 1 points by Thinkdeer (250) 3 years ago

It looks great!

[-] 1 points by velveeta (230) 3 years ago

the way to fix this poster is to label the enemy tanks as what you are fighting, not as "Five Boroughs". The five boroughs are not the enemy. The tanks should be labelled "Greed", "Austerity" and "Corruption". Then put the time and place under each tank or in another spot.

[-] 1 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 3 years ago

I agree. Very good idea.

[-] -1 points by tsdevi (307) 3 years ago

Good Idea

[-] 1 points by MaxEntropy (1) 3 years ago

Awesome poster. Let us, the proleteriat workers rise up to overthrow the capitalist pig dog oppressors! Long live the indissoluble union of the working class, kolkhoz peasantry, and national intelligentsia! Strengthen the social-political and ideological unity of Occupy society! Long live social democracy, guaranteeing genuine people's power and social justice!

[-] 1 points by onewildman (1) 3 years ago

99% of the loons are the people who call themselves the OWS. They in no way represent me or anyone I know. In my book that makes them 100% stupid because they don't even in reality represent .1% of the people. This poster is reminiscent of Nazi Germany and Communist Russia. The liberals have followed the same plan that the Chinese employed to poison the minds of their youth. It started at the end of world war 2. By 1967 their plan reach the breaking point. The Social revolution began and many innocent people were beaten and killed by swarms of young Chinese. The same plan was employed by the liberals. First they went after prayer in school. Then they went after national pride and began the revision of American people. The portrayed all Americans who founded as non believers in God. They then went after the minds of the youth by first teaching lessons that everyone is a winner. They are self importance. They get the attitude that they are owed without every making a contribution of any kind except consumption. In the real world there are winner's and loser's. Unfortunately they are taught to win but are not taught how to loose or be a good looser.

IMPEACH OBAMA NOW! ! ! ! ! !

[-] 1 points by patriot1949 (4) 3 years ago

Wake up people you are the one percent!

[-] 1 points by Gaybinator (2) 3 years ago

This sort of art is called agitprop, or agitational propaganda. Read from one who actually did it in the U.S.S.R. http://thepeoplescube.com/ Shakedown Socialism. What OWS is pissed off at is not Capitalism; it is Crony Capitalism and THE MAN that you should be protesting is Obama. GE made $14 billion last year and paid $0 in taxes. Solyndra was GIVEN $535 million taxpayer dollars, because the major investor was a big contributor to the Obama campaign.

OWS is being used to create chaos - this will give THE MAN the excuse to clamp down - it won't be pretty and the "useful idiots", as Lenin called people like you, will be cast to the wind.

I suggest you read the U.S. Constitution http://constitutioncenter.org/633876696043236250.pdf - it contains all the rules. You should be passing out copies of the Constitution. The progressives, starting with Woodrow Wilson, have hollowed it out - the rules are not being followed anymore - this is the reason that our country is in trouble. Capitalism has allowed more people to rise from poverty than any other economic system. It requires winners and losers - the free market clears the bad companies out of the way.

[-] 1 points by sfmadman (9) 3 years ago

It isn't just Obama. In fact, Obama merely does behind our backs what the republicans tell us to our faces they want to do. Both parties are puppets to the corporate elite. I've read the constitution, and I know there is nothing in it about capitalism. It also specifies that our representatives are elected "by the people." If this was ever true, it isn't now. They are "selected" by the true rulers of this nation, the corporate elite.

[-] 1 points by gottajob (1) 3 years ago

Love it! The poster got it right. Only the 1 (1%) has the courage to stand up to the government machines. While the other 99 (99%) stand back like cowards and let the government crush the one; so that the 99 can take the 1's groceries (personal property).

[-] 1 points by Badgeryeswecan (4) from Hazlet, NJ 3 years ago

Have there been any organized efforts to set message banners on highway overpasses at routes into the city: GSP, Turnpike, etc.? I'm thinking of one that would read:"Police want martial law" or "This is a facist state", given that the funds and training the police have received (since 9-11) to counter outside threats are being utilized now to put down our own populace.

[-] 1 points by RexDiamond (585) from Idabel, OK 3 years ago

Why do Marxists always use the same color scheme?

[-] 1 points by Joeschmoe1000 (270) 3 years ago

I just printed 250 copies and have been selling them in the subway for $4 each.

Like hotcakes.

Doing again tomorrow

will be available at Union Square today as well!

[-] 1 points by itsybitsycheater (38) from Center Valley, PA 3 years ago

Ooh, look! A little capitalist!

[-] 1 points by mowakumba (2) 3 years ago

This is a VERY bad idea.

[-] 1 points by michael4ows (224) from Mountain View, CA 3 years ago

Resist austerity?

"In economics, austerity is a policy of deficit-cutting, lower spending, and a reduction in the amount of benefits and public services provided. Austerity policies are often used by governments to reduce their deficit spending while sometimes coupled with increases in taxes to pay back creditors to reduce debt. "Austerity" was named the word of the year by Merriam-Webster in 2010."

We need some austerity. The deficit and debt in our federal and state governments are pretty much out of control.

[-] -2 points by velveeta (230) 3 years ago

Cut the fat where you can find it, you won't get blood from a stone. Need revenues? Where's the cash? In the pockets of the 1%. Tax them and tax them good. It's called revenues. You can cut all the SS, Medicare, etc... you want, it won't put a dent in the black hole of debt. The 1% are sitting on a mountain of wealth, and they will never pitch in willingly. The defense spending all goes into their pockets. Why should we take a cut and pay more taxes?

[-] 1 points by itsybitsycheater (38) from Center Valley, PA 3 years ago

You're wrong. Cutting Medicare/Medicaid/ would generate far more revenue than taxing the rich more. You could take 100% of the income revenue from the rich, and it wouldn't pay the budget expense for one year. It's unsustainable. 50% of Americans pay ZERO income tax. Maybe everyone should pay something. That sounds fair to me. By the way, the 1% is a fallacy. 1% of the people do not own 99% of the wealth. You need to take a Xanax and get some anger management training.

[-] 0 points by michael4ows (224) from Mountain View, CA 3 years ago

I think there's a lot of fat that can be cut. Why on earth does the US have to spend more on military then the rest of the world combined? What is up with "crazy checks"? Medicare isn't setup well to identify fraud much less stop it. Farm subsidies, especially for non-farmers? Stupid corporate give aways like the one made for Solyndra?

[-] 1 points by itsybitsycheater (38) from Center Valley, PA 3 years ago

Bravo!

[-] 1 points by UncleSam (8) from New York, NY 3 years ago

just some of my thoughts

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[-] 1 points by MRA (2) 3 years ago

The link for the downloadable flier doesn't work.

http://www.enationalist.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=18

[-] 1 points by villers (-2) 3 years ago

I think the major issue with OWS is that we want things to be done peacefully; but major change can never happen peacefully.

[-] 0 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 3 years ago

maybe in a horse and buggy era that was true. But what about now?

[-] 0 points by villers (-2) 3 years ago

Now I think its still near impossible. No doubt that the eras are vastly diffrent, but people are still the same. Those on top want to keep their power and wont just hand it over to the little people asking nicely. All I'm saying is that somethings got to give; one way or another.

[-] 0 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 3 years ago

but what gives, is better for all if compromises are made, ergo the computer vs the horse, telegraph, and TV. those who pay the piper picks the tune? people are the same, but they are more informed.

[-] 0 points by villers (-2) 3 years ago

I wouldnt say so; I'd say the younger, digital generation is well informed. But the older ones, the ones that are use to the "old system" arnt. And those on top arnt going to be singing that tune about being better for all. It certanly wont be better for them-I mean no matter how you swing it they're loosing something.

I dont mean to sound like I'm fighing for them (the coporations), I'm just being realisic and doing comparasons. The past tends to repeat itself, proven time and time again in history. And even the most peaceful of movements, trying for the best for society never succeded without a little bloodshed; already proven by the other movements in other states where people have already shed some blood.

[-] 1 points by nichole (525) 3 years ago

How are you going to shut Wall Street down on Thanksgiving Day if it is already closed for the holiday?

[-] 1 points by AreUSerious (20) 3 years ago

Most of the 1% drive (prob like 99% of them), or take car service to wall street you dummies. Your just going to hinder the everyday, working class in or around wall street.

What's the image of the tanks meant to portray anyway? All the violence you've faced from NYC in this protest? Each time I pass by your tents your all having a little party with a very expensive security expense taken care of by NYC tax payers.

[-] 1 points by martis (2) from Brooklyn, NY 3 years ago

disrupting the subway is the number one way to turn the entire city population against you. not smart.

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[-] 1 points by owstag (508) 3 years ago

There are no subways on Staten Island.

[-] -2 points by leftfield (6) 3 years ago

Not true--go to the MTA web site and look at their maps of the subway system. Staten Island does have a subway.

[-] 1 points by owstag (508) 3 years ago

You're an ignorant hick. I grew up on Staten Island. There are no subways. What you're seeing on the MTA website is about the S.I.R.T., Staten Island Rapid Transit system, which is an above ground, rail system that is free unless you go on or off at the ferry terminal. It's not a subway. Everybody in NYC knows Staten Island has no subways: it's totally different from the other boroughs in most respects, being mostly suburban.

[-] 0 points by tsdevi (307) 3 years ago

Ease up with the caustic tone. If you are indeed so much more brilliant than your do not have to be an @$$&^*% about it. Not to mention that this is a trivial detail, it's a train...

[-] 0 points by owstag (508) 3 years ago

Calling the SIRT a subway is like calling a cat a horse.

[-] 0 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 3 years ago

Does it really matter that it's an above-ground rail system? It's still a form of public transportation.

[-] 2 points by owstag (508) 3 years ago

Well I merely pointed out that Staten Island does not have a subway system, since the poster implied they were going to 'shutdown the subway in 5 boroughs'. Then 'leftfield' tried to insist Staten Island does have a subway system becsuse he saw it on the MTA website (what a hick!). This sounds really ignorant to anyone familiar with NYC and reinforces the notion that the occupy protesters in Zucootti Park are overwhelmingly upper middle class white kids from the burbs.

Shutting down the SIRT would be kinda silly. It's used mostly by kids and old people. Working adults could get into Manattan lots of other ways. It would make a lot more sense to attempt to shut down the ferry.

Not really sure what message shutting down the subway system is supposed to send and to whom. Seems like they're just pulling some of this stuff out of their rectum. Why not try to shut down Wall Street itself? You know, like Napolean said, "if you want to conquer Vienna, go to Vienna'. They want to 'conquer' Wall Street, so they shut down the subway? Or better yet, why not sleep outside the homes of politicians known to be funded by Wall Street or other wealthy interests? Politicians hate negative publicity and are generally quite spineless and cave in pretty quickly under pressure.

[-] 0 points by Bambi (359) 3 years ago

Wonder if they will try to hijack the ferries out in the middle of the water..oooooo one must not anger commuters....Might find themselves swimming with the fishies..Just sayin

[-] 1 points by sfmadman (9) 3 years ago

Which is the very reason OWS should NOT occupy it, because it will alienate the very people for which they are supposed to be helping.

[-] -1 points by tsdevi (307) 3 years ago

Right?

[-] 1 points by Bambi (359) 3 years ago

NON violent yet you have army tanks on the poster? Isn't that hypercritical?

Taking down Wall Street, take the square, occupy the subways? All you are suggesting is that you want to hurt the 99% that work in offices and buildings on Wall Street, businesses surrounding the square and jamming up the subways so bad that the 99% can't get to work.

This is not a peaceful productive poster. It shows anger towards the every day worker who is out there to work to pay bills and have food on their table.

[-] 3 points by OccupyYourSelf (11) 3 years ago

Your missing their idiotic point. These morons actually think that they're comparable to the folks in Tianenmen Square, who stared down tanks in a struggle for their freedom from Chinese Communist rule.

Now, that fact that the guy in the poster is fighting against Communists? That, right there, is what you call "delicious irony"!

[-] 1 points by Bambi (359) 3 years ago

They are clueless............totally clueless! OMG this is frustrating as all get out!

[-] 1 points by IHearYourPointBut (-1) 3 years ago

Occupying the subways at 3 pm is a bad time. The kids are getting out of school. Teenagers with lots of energy and younger kids who must travel alone - their families will be worried about them if things get out of hand. Think about changing to the weekend. You will get your point across without worrying so many families.

[-] 2 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 3 years ago

Good points. Not a good idea to get kids in the way. Also, being trapped inside subways is not too smart.

[-] 2 points by fredastaire (203) 3 years ago

whats really funny is if you say it fast, "mass direction action" sounds just like "misdirection"

[-] 1 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 3 years ago

Nice catch! You're a smart little guy, and you dance quite well.

[-] 2 points by fredastaire (203) 3 years ago

lmao :) word

[-] 1 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 3 years ago

What are your thoughts on this idea. I'm asking because you are one of the smart ones around here. Your input would be appreciated. Don't hold back, I'm not looking for high fives, but a kick in my arguments.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/occupy-imagery-why-cant-it-be-new/

[-] 1 points by adigo (0) 3 years ago

You must occupy White House. You must be so brave. Because of riot police.

[-] 1 points by OWStotallySUCKS (3) 3 years ago

awsome idea to occupy the subways. This way we in the top 1 pct do not have to see your ugly, smelly asses anymore. Ohh and we take cabs or limos! FU

[-] 1 points by Karl99 (63) 3 years ago

Now OWS is comparing the US to China with the picture referencing or alluding to Tiananmen Square with the tanks and the lonely protester standing in front of them. Really, is the US really like a communist government? Most cities haven't even touched the damn protesters. I can tell you one thing, if these dumb ass OWS protesters block the subway i'll kick there @## a#%es so i can get to work.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 3 years ago

No, it's more like a dictatorship.... but the dictators are the corporations.

[-] 1 points by jph (2652) 3 years ago

Spoken like a true house slave! Enjoy your enslavement.

[-] 1 points by joewilsonjoe (-2) from St Louis, MO 3 years ago

Awesome graphic, thank you.

[-] 0 points by Gaybinator (2) 3 years ago

The Consequences of a Socialist State

''For their happiness such a government willingly labors, but it chooses to be the sole agent and the only arbiter of that happiness; it provides for their security, foresees and supplies their necessities, facilitates their pleasures, manages their principled concerns, directs their industry, regulates the descent of property, and subdivides their inheritances: what remains, but to spare them all care of thinking and the trouble of living?” . . . It covers the surface of society with a network of small and complicated rules, minute and uniform, through which the most original minds and the most energetic characters cannot penetrate, to rise above the crowd. The will of man is not shattered, but softened, bent, and guided; men are seldom forced by it to act, but they are constantly restrained from acting: such a power does not destroy, but it prevents existence; it does not tyrannize, but it compresses, enervates, extinguishes, and stupefies a people, till each nation is reduced to be nothing better than a flock of timid and industrious animals, of which the government is the shepherd.''

Alexis de Tocqueville From Democracy in America 1836

[-] 0 points by PeaceJusticeWhoopee (-1) 3 years ago

R. black . Thanks for doing this powerful poster. Not to be one of those people who comes along after the fact with criticism but - where are the women in this poster?

[-] 0 points by evaristeg (-1) 3 years ago

In case of a detention, people could surround the police and force them to stop it and leave.

[-] 0 points by rbe (687) 3 years ago

If you guys manage to close the NYSE for the day, or even just manage to make it open a few hours late, that will be the most important thing you've done thus far.

[-] 0 points by Danimal98367 (188) from Port Orchard, WA 3 years ago

How interesting that y'all named it after a Greek Marxist terrorist organization.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutionary_Organization_17_November

[-] 0 points by thethirdeye (-10) 3 years ago

I know people who escaped soviet Russia back in the 80s and those posters make them think of what happened in Russia. Not sure of the right message does get a cross.

My parents who left a communist country already assume ows are communists trying to take everything. The posts don't exactly help.

[-] 0 points by lonespectator (106) 3 years ago

The shame of the OWS movement is they have failed to take the next logical step, which is Occupy the White House.. They have repeatedly said the movement is not ready. That is a lie. The OWS General Assembly and the DNC have repeatly met in secret to keep the movement from Occupying the White House from fear of offending the current President. Shame!! The President has stated publicly he supports the movement, but behind the scenes is trying to block the movement with continued distraction. The fact is the President has given specific instructions to the Capitol Police that if the White House is Occupied, that they are to stand down, and not steal Tents and Generators. Yet OWS in it's corrupt secret meetings are trying to continue to persuade the ranks they are doing the right thing for now...WRONG.. It is time to demand full support for the "Occupy the White House" Movement. It is time to remind the President that the White House is the peoples house!! He serves at our pleasure. OWH Now!!! Promote the full Occupation of the White House" now!! Don't be fooled by OWS/DNC infiltrators. OWH Now!!! Today!! Take back the peoples house and demand real change...

[-] 0 points by lonespectator (106) 3 years ago

The shame of the OWS movement is they have failed to take the next logical step, which is Occupy the White House.. They have repeatedly said the mivement is not ready. That is a lie. The OWS General Assembly and the DNC have repeatly met in secret to keep the movement from Occupying the White House from fear of offending the current President. Shame!! The President has stated publicly he supports the movement, but behind the scenes is trying to block the movement with continued distraction. The fact is the President has given specific instructions to the Capitol Police that if the White House is Occupied, that they are to stand down, and not steal Tents and Generators. Yet OWS in it's corrupt secret meetings are trying to continue to persuade the ranks they are doing the right thing for now...WRONG.. It is time to demand full support for the "Occupy the White House" Movement. It is time to remind the President that the White House is the peoples house!! He serves at our pleasure. OWH Now!!! Promote the full Occupation of the White House" now!! Don't be fooled by OWS/DNC infiltrators. OWH Now!!! Today!! Take back the peoples house and demand real change...

[-] 0 points by brooce (65) from Minneapolis, MN 3 years ago

Poster is a rip off depicting those disedents who faced real trouble-not like OWS where being served regular chicken over free range is a big deal-our pouting that you didnt get new drum skins. There are no tanks running you down. The only tank you have is Mike Moore.

[-] 0 points by KeepOregonGreen (-6) 3 years ago

The wrong people are already pissed at OWS! I took my kids to see the OWS camps in Portland and they were swore at my the occupiers because they were bathed and appeared educated. All they wanted was to learn more about why OWS was doing what it was. I was disappointed that nobody at the camp had enough command of the English language and respect for kids to help me educate them.

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[-] 0 points by KeepOregonGreen (-6) 3 years ago

I am confused by the whole OWS movement. First of all, most of those who I have met are either unemployable or over educated and thusly, unemployable. The 56% of us who pay taxes and have regular jobs are footing the tax bills for your little temper tantrums. In my city alone, OWS has cost the tax payers, the 56%, over $400,000 in police overtime and damage to our parks. That is $400,000 that could have gone to help causes like battered woman's shelters, children services, education. Instead it was spent cleaning up trash from OWS camps and making sure OWS did not hurt themselves or the public. Most of the OWS movement in Portland was comprised of homeless and anarchist factions. I agree that the 1% need to put more back into the human community, however, OWS is not impacting them even the slightest, you are hurting the 56%.

[-] 0 points by KeepOregonGreen (-6) 3 years ago

Okay, I have two friends who actually spent time at the OWS camp in Portland. One, the most free spirit you have ever met. Every inch of her is tattooed and pierced. Hair is whatever color represents the nearest up and coming holiday. First impressions of her are scary. She refuses to change anything about herself to get a job, although she has sent out dozens of resumes and done dozens of phone interviews and been asked in for interviews. You can guess what happens then. Is it that she is unemployable or is she refusing to do what she needs to get a job...make the sacrifices that must be made in individuality to earn a paycheck? My second friend has been in school for the past 20 years. He holds more degrees than any other person in Oregon. He is sooo educated that everyone and anyone is afraid to hire him. He is willing to accept a job at the local coffee house, yet he most likely is 200% more educated than those who own it. I ask him why he spent the past 20 years in school, and he said he like to learn. Okay, but what does he do with it? These are the OWS faces, how does trashing a park in Portland help them? Haven't they made their own choices in life and now must live with those choices?

[-] 0 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 3 years ago

maybe if we changed the rules, OWS would not feel the need to express their selves. or better yet, how about not pigeon holing every one and give them a way to contribute?

[-] 0 points by KeepOregonGreen (-6) 3 years ago

I agree. The system is broke. My gripe is the way we are going about trying to fix it. Don't ask me how I would do it, I just know that trashing city parks and stopping the 56% from getting to work is not the way. In Oregon we have a strong anarchist movement that will make sure any public protests are taken to the nth degree and beyond. It really messed up the OWS attempt at getting their voices heard.

[-] 0 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 3 years ago

we are all in it together. we are all scared, the one percent, too. the bean counters are in the process of negotiations. those that don't express themselves believe that they will be left out of the new consensus. these are hair raising times but, in my opinion, as long as we don't go to war it can't get any worst.

[-] 0 points by gluttonsbedamned (18) 3 years ago

Reoccupy

[-] 0 points by journeyo (0) 3 years ago

Counter Productive - This plays into Bloomberg's hands. Act with impact!

Occupy your water supply - NOV 17 is the day our water rights are being sold to frackers at a hearing upstate (with free busses)! I found a ride here - unitedforaction[dot]org

Our basic rights - to water and to free speech - are united. Thank you for this amazing work and space. I'll be upstate but honor and respect all who are working here, now, OWS, OTogether, OEarth!

[-] 0 points by tattoojosh (-1) 3 years ago

Disrupting the daily lives of these corporate robots is the only way to get at them...you gotta hit them where it hurts. Luckily for the police and government we are being peaceful. I don't think they want another revolution on their hands. But if it has to come to that it will. I will gladly stand up next to my fellow man if it means that we can take the power away from the ruling parties. The government is not here to protect you they are ruled by the corporations who make billions of dollars off of ruining third world country and our planet. The funniest part is the earth is not gonna end...just civilization. The earth has it's own way of taking out the trash. If we don't start standing up for the earth and civilization it will be too late. Maybe not now but one day future generation will have to pay for our greed!

[-] 0 points by Orivaldo (-1) 3 years ago

Publiquei no Brasil em meu blog: http://prolegomenos1.blogspot.com

Todo o poder ao povo!

[-] 0 points by ZPASTRONAUT (4) 3 years ago

Bravo! This is all about! Seeking the Integral consciousness – here in Portugal, there in the USA, in China or anywhere in the World where People will confront the unknown, the fear, and themselves! But, some things are unfortunately eternal - there will always be people ready to hide behind the scenes, behind the words, the tanks, behind the fear and the power. We are gradually losing our humanity, our connections with all living things, with or without realizing it. I, no longer dream that the better Woman and the better Man who want Peace and will fight for it, who want a Fair world and will die for it, who want Life and will live for it, will take the reins of man/womankind, but, there is no other way if we want to save our Humanity. If I ever need to consider mi suicide (and exclusively mine) to save the Humanity, I hope I will be strong enough to put an end in my life when the moment will arrive - Standing in front of the inhumanity!

Be free, be loved!

ZP

[-] 0 points by AngryJoe (67) 3 years ago

Looks a lot like old soviet socialist propaganda.

[-] 0 points by topher1966 (-1) 3 years ago

Beautifull poster..I myself was there roughly a month ago for a week.After hiking the Appalachian Trail this year (ga-ME) I was surprised people were camping in the citys?I hit the trail to get away from the 1%,politics and society in general.My week in zucotti park i knew that eviction was inevitable.

[-] 0 points by oms (-1) 3 years ago

Shut down the subways, really? I'm a supporter of OWS but this is a huge mistake. You're only going to piss off the 99%. You think those wall street jerk offs take the subway to work?

[-] 0 points by Owsjim (29) 3 years ago

Be careful out there.

[-] 0 points by Human (23) 3 years ago

Cripes. It's amazing to read some of these comments. The whole "cold war" mentality is preposterous. It's mental masturbation and is yet another distraction from the message. We are not going to take this anymore. I'm 51 years old and the last few months have given me hope for this country and the world. Stand tall #OWS. There are SO many of us who once again have hope.

[-] 0 points by therising (6643) 3 years ago

Fantastic poster that catches the eye, tells the story and evokes Tienanmen. Very powerful and moving. So many Americans remember that brave fellow nonviolently standing in front of that tank. We felt solidarity with him. We honored him. Now we can be him.

Rise up.

[-] 0 points by PeteG2 (393) 3 years ago

I'm very sorry the park was cleared, but it will bring out more supporters. Expanding the protests across the city is exactly the right tactic now.

Let's keep the faith. Keep protesting. Keep it nonviolent. Keep it legal to give the mayor and police no excuse to silence us. Let's be a great big thorn in the sides of the smug 1% and their pets in government until we turn the nation back toward the path of economic justice.

http://fairsharetaxes.org

[-] 0 points by apato (6) 3 years ago

HOW MANY ARE WE ?!?! GO TO THIS SITE !

www.theindignados.org

Go to this website, and show your indignation, just by putting your name in a text box ! Let show the world how many Indignants/occupants are we !

[-] 0 points by stannaslav (-1) from Brooklyn, NY 3 years ago

so, as everyone seems to find this poster too reminiscent of communism, can a twenty-something, up-and-coming, 99%er graphic design student living in williamsburg make a new one?

[-] 0 points by Raccoon (0) 3 years ago

Im off to go play my RuneScape.

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[-] 0 points by OooGeeE (21) from New Rochelle, NY 3 years ago

I'm not sure about Occupy the Subway. Unless your using it to get to Foley Square.

[-] 0 points by mowakumba (2) 3 years ago

Middle East Protest death toll:

Tunisia - 223; Lebanon - 17; Egypt - 875; Yemen - 1,782; Iraq - 35; Bahrain - 49; Libya - 30,000; Syria - 4,300;

TOTAL DEATHS OVER SEAS : 30,430–37,140+ and has many years to go. (USA ows has 7 so far)

Are you willing to DIE for your cause? Do you wish to be an OWS martyr??

[-] 0 points by Ubuntu (34) from Brooklyn, NY 3 years ago

Hey everybody, don't worry you won't lose your job if your boss rides the subway to work or has a even a remote clue as to what is going on in the world around them. If you do get fired, you probably weren't getting the respect you deserve anyway. In this case, you should probably get a backbone and quit your job because it's not worth it.

[-] 0 points by freeusa (14) 3 years ago

Look, raising awareness is a good idea but not by killing the life of people who has the job. Causing the subway to stop running is a dumbness idea I have seen from OWS. Those of you who don't have a job it is no fault of those who have a job, why punish us when you want to raise awareness, by the way if those of us who have a job and donate to OWS, after we all lost our jobs then who is going to pay for the movement? DUMB! Do not kill the goose and get the egg!

[-] 0 points by art5 (0) 3 years ago

A perfect image for the purpose! NY can do it!

[-] 0 points by Mooks (1985) 3 years ago

Are you serious? This is the worst idea OWS can have. The 1% does not work at or ride the subway. It is folks of the 99% trying to go to work or school. I can't imagine how OWS thinks this is a good idea. Talk about a way to loose public support.

Hopefully those OWSers foolish enough to do this wear some kind of athletic supporter to protect their bean bags from the flying police bean bags because they deserve what is fired at them.

[-] 0 points by infonomics (393) 3 years ago

As you engage in this war against the oppression of greed and corruption, remember the words of the song:

We are the champions - my friends And we'll keep on fighting - till the end - We are the champions - We are the champions No time for losers 'Cause we are the champions - of the world -

May the force be with you and when the bells toll, no need to ask for whom, for the bells toll for you and I.

[-] 1 points by itsybitsycheater (38) from Center Valley, PA 3 years ago

I do not like Green Eggs and Ham I do not like them Sam, I am

I do not like them here or there I do not like them anywhere I do not like them in a boat I would not, could not, with a goat

I will not eat them in the rain I do not like them on a train I do not like them in a box I will not eat them with a fox

I do not like them in a house I would not, could not, with a mouse I do not like Green Eggs and Ham I do not like them Sam, I am

[-] 0 points by Sly (19) from Brattleboro, VT 3 years ago

I think the poster would read better if you replaced the black with deep blue. Then it would be more American-friendly without losing the idea.

[-] 0 points by GreenbeltCarousel (15) 3 years ago

Raise your fist and celebrate anarchy with the defecation of the masses. Juice your organs for the first asylum!

[-] 0 points by Sheetos (0) 3 years ago

Solidarity from Egypt. I will do my best to follow minute by minute in that day, all the best and good luck!

[-] 0 points by KirkVanHouten (123) 3 years ago

Snappy poster, OWS, but get over yourselves! The icon of Tiananmen Square was facing down a brutal dictatorship's column of tanks, while you guys are harassing a free society's police on scooters. You aren't fit to hold his bags.

[-] 0 points by sfmadman (9) 3 years ago

Agreed. For now, anyway. If OWS keeps pushing, however, I wouldn't be surprised if the elite finally does respond by calling in the armed forces and ordering them to fire (not saying the soldiers will or will not obey).

[-] 0 points by AlexM (3) 3 years ago

It seems very familiar... What it could be? f..k! It looks the same as propaganda posters of Great October Revolution after 1917 in Russia :)

[-] 0 points by gluttonsbedamned (18) 3 years ago

I think it's wonderful that Satyagraha will be at the Met on the same weekend as this OWS activity. The timing is great. MLK and Ghandi understood what protests can do!

[-] 0 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 3 years ago

Wow, cool poster.

In Burlington we're going to gather outside the Post Office, in solidarity with Postal Workers.

If you guys are interested in Direct Action, you may benefit from the following:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/targeted-interdiction-what-is-it/

[-] 0 points by GarnetMoon (424) 3 years ago

I am a huge supporter of OWS. I spent 2 nights in Zucotti Park when Bloomberg played the eviction card and I plan on coming down again for this event. I have lived in the US my entire life and am a naturalized citizen. I, like many around the world do not succumb to the "socialist" hysteria that is so prevalent here in this country. I find it most unfortunate, as I do the tanks depicted here on this poster. The juxtaposition is ironic... I would not use it, OWS. Please!

[-] 0 points by 99antman99 (-2) 3 years ago

Yo, heads up! The link for the poster file goes to a page that says the file is expired and can't be downloaded. I commute MTN daily and planned to cover over all the FOX NEWS ads...need the link working

[-] 0 points by 99antman99 (-2) 3 years ago

Yo, Heads up! The poster file link took me to a link that says the file expired and can't be downloaded. I commute MTN daily and was gonna cover the FOX News ads, heh...need that link working tho

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[-] 0 points by freeusa (14) 3 years ago

OWS go get a real job, stop messing with other X% of their working schedule, we got a family to feed, a iphone, ipad need to pay off. If you are so believe of your movement on challenging the wall street by protesting,dare you stop paying your phone bills, stop going to McDonald, better yet stop smoking cause all of these brand or services are own by wall street. Get a life and move on.

[-] 0 points by zapjac (0) from Valley Stream, NY 3 years ago

I don't like this poster at all. The tanks have to go. Violence is not the name of the game. We need to take our stand with courage and compassion because we oppose the greed of corporate oligarchs. We should have peace signs, not tanks.

[-] 0 points by NJmom (1) 3 years ago

I love the poster. Definitely very Soviet, but eye catching. I happen to love the look of Communist propaganda. I love the fact that you guys keep planning, and doing, direct action, large and small. Maybe all the little guys will have an excuse to take the day off from work and school - "The subway was occupied!" I think that any of the real workers who are inconvenienced by this day of action will be on your side, and the people who just bitch and moan can just do that. Anybody read Lemony Snicket's 13 observations on Occupy Writers? All of you anti-occupy negativists should read and think about number 11, real hard.

[-] 0 points by Blue (2) 3 years ago

Some democracy! How is it that my posts have disappeared? too many didn't like them? Oh, that's fair!

[-] 0 points by barb (835) 3 years ago

Please set up more Occupy Wallstreet forums that are more organized so people can see progress.

[-] 0 points by Barny197 (7) 3 years ago

Today the corporations and monied run our country.

There is a need for a 28th Amendment to our Constitution to restore rights to we the people.

  1. Congress will no longer accept campaign monies from any corporation or lobbyist group, no exceptions

2 Upon leaving public service, no former member of Congress shall be employed as a lobbyist in any form.

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by Blue (2) 3 years ago

Just heard that a few of the 'chosen' ones might be traveling to Egypt. What a boon doggle.. good on the few of you who get to go

What are the qualifications required to be chosen? (some $29,000 has been allocated).. how on earth will you select those few who get to go?... and so it begins... have fun, whoever you are!.. remember.. you are traveling on other people's hard earned money.

[-] 0 points by Bambi (359) 3 years ago

Wonder if they got their shots yet to travel to foreign lands.

[-] 0 points by unconditionalbaseincome (20) 3 years ago

the link to the file is broken... can't print with no file. please repost. thanks

[-] 0 points by imschur (7) 3 years ago

Cannot download this poster, I get a message saying the file has expired. can someone fix this? thanks

[-] 0 points by OWSrPATHETIC (4) 3 years ago

please occupy the subway. that way we don't have to see or smell you. we take cabs or limo's. suck on that

[-] 0 points by rickMoss (435) 3 years ago

Hello guys. I don't think this is such a good Idea. Wall Street and the establishment or just as disorganized and confused as we are. They don't know how to fix themselves or our problems. This may just throw gasoline on the fire. So good luck if you must.

FIGHT THE CAUSE - NOT THE SYMPTOM OsiXs (Revolution 2.0 - The Smart Revolution)

[-] -1 points by BreadLandPeace (359) 3 years ago

Please excuse my many comments today, but unfortunately, the establishment look pretty organized- witness the coordinated attempts to shut down the movement across the country.

[-] 0 points by KeepOregonGreen (-6) 3 years ago

"Establishment"? How old are you? What exactly is the "establishment"?

[-] 0 points by BreadLandPeace (359) 3 years ago

Old enough to be fighting an age discrimination case against a mega wealthy Wall Street law firm, and young enough to defer to people who want to use a different formulation, like the "establishment," instead of "the capitalist state."

[-] 0 points by imstillhere (6) 3 years ago

And there are many in the 99% who understand the Occupy movement who would like to see them shut down. Your collective disdain for those who disagree with you is your greatest liability, not "the establishment."

[-] 0 points by BreadLandPeace (359) 3 years ago

That's why I keep plugging away for legal, peaceful, because unfortunately there are many who actually share most of the same interests as the Occupy movement who believe it doesn't represent them. It's not the political disagreements that's OWS's greatest liability, it's the lack of political understanding that has allowed violent protestors to portray themselves to the public as the face of the movement. OWS's failure to distance its message from them is hurting the movement more than any discussion of ideas. Our ideas are powerful--otherwise we couldn't have reached such high levels of public support in such a short time, in spite of the mass arrests and OWS having to deal in the encampments with capitalism's failures, like homelessness and crimes against women and gays.

[-] 0 points by imstillhere (6) 3 years ago

Give me a hand here:

...it's the lack of political understanding that has led violent protestors to portray themselves to the public as the face of the movement.

The lack of political understanding leads the violent protestors to be the poster children of the movement?

OWS's failure to distance its message from them is hurting the movement more than any discussion of ideas.

If "them" means the violent protestors, I agree. I would also include the anti-semitic, anti-capitalist, and racist protestors in that classification as well.

Otherwise we couldn't have reached such high levels of public support in such a short time...

This is a non-sequitur. Either the violent protestors are holding you back or you have reached high levels of public support, not both. It doesn't make sense to say one and then the other.

... like capitalism's failures, like homelessness and crimes against women and gays.

Homelessness and crimes are a fact of life in all nations. If you think replacing capitalism will make them go away or that it couldn't get worse under socialism, you are deeply confused.

[-] 0 points by BreadLandPeace (359) 3 years ago

Hi, okay, if I could respectfully comment:

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear, but I believe that the violent protestors--the ones who are sincere as opposed to those who want to destroy the movement--don't understand politics, to the point that they're actually hurting the movement they want to build. I believe it's one of the most important problems confronting the OWS leadership, to accept that they do have to provide leadership, and educate against an everything goes mentality. I think OWS has done a fantastic and heroic job so far, but you can't escape the truth that without leadership the movement can self-destruct or never reach its potential. The core leadership, which I believe exists, has to take a firm stand against getting into confrontations with the police. As Noam Chomsky says, violence makes the protestors feel good. It also makes the 1% feel good! I think this new poster, regardless of some valid comments about its visual message, clearly calls for nonviolence, and that's exactly the kind of leadership we need. Thank you again, OWS!

I completely agree with you about taking a public, unequivocal stand against anti-Semitism and any other forms of bigotry and racism. (I believe you can protest racism among Zionists without being anti-Semitic, especially because so many right-wingers in Israel are rabidly racist against, ironically, another Semitic people, the Palestinians.)

Your comment about excluding anti-capitalism as a demand, though, is really a huge, huge, historical issue, on a parallel with the question of violence as a strategy.

The two strains of the anti-Vietnam war movement that would have derailed it were: those who advocated violence; and the ultra-Marxists who, in their own way, would have made it impossible for masses of people to support the movement. It may sound like a contradiction, but it was the Trotskyist Marxists, who considered themselves professional revolutionaries, who fought the hardest to keep a number of other Marxist groups from imposing their entire anti-capitalist program on the movement. These other Marxists accused us of being sell-outs and reformists because we opposed raising slogans like down with capitalism, smash the state, etc., etc.

The Trotskyist group I was a member of at the time, the Socialist Workers Party, provided true revolutionary leadership by creating a united front with many other groups around the anti-imperialist demand, bring the troops home now. The SWP didn't hide its views, and numerous speakers from varied groups at rallies brought up radical ideas. But the movement as a whole was forged around the demand Out Now! (I'm very sorry to say that the SWP, after its incomparable role in helping to end the barbaric war in Vietnam, changed in the following years so much as to be virtually unrecognizable, by such tragedies as undemocratic expulsions of some of the most dedicated, long-time leadership, among other betrayals of the SWP's revolutionary heritage.)

Yes, homelessness and crimes of bigotry are a fact of life--UNDER CAPITALISM--but they don't have to exist. I remember a socialist class in the early years of the Cuban revolution, and the words of the speaker, that after the revolution "racism died overnight in Cuba." An example cited in an SWP pamphlet was a barber in Cuba who had refused to cut a black person's hair, but, unlike in the past, was forced to comply with the revolution's laws against racism.

And we didn't have the epidemic of homelessness before Reaganomics and the "deinstitutionalization" of mentally ill people from hospitals. As everyone can see, it didn't work, as OWS has seen in many of the encampments. Deinstitutionalization has in its own way almost returned the mentally ill to horrific conditions that existed over a hundred years ago--like putting them in prisons.

I believe, with many, that OWS is the most important movement in a generation. That it could have reached such astonishing levels of public support in spite of being marred by violence only shows you how powerful the ideas are. If OWS weren't saddled with these violent protestors, who offer tantalizing, made-for-TV stories for the media, just think how many more people we could reach.

Anyway, I better get off the website now, but thanks for raising these all-important issues. In spite of your adversarial tone, the ideas you raise are in fact probably THE most important, historically and now, to the success or failure of the struggle for economic justice, and, you could add, the future of humanity. I really believe that, but there's a lot more to discuss, and I apologize that I won't have more time to do that right now.

Thanks very much.

[-] 0 points by dignedoccuper (0) 3 years ago

peaceful faith always succeeds no matter what.

[-] 0 points by titus (13) 3 years ago

“When a person, being without fault, is in a place where he has a right to be, is violently assaulted, he may, without retreating, repel by force, and if, in the reasonable exercise of his right of self defense, his assailant is killed, he is justified.” Runyan v. State, 57 Ind. 80; Miller v. State, 74 Ind. 1. “These principles apply as well to an officer attempting to make an arrest, who abuses his authority and transcends the bounds thereof by the use of unnecessary force and violence, as they do to a private individual who unlawfully uses such force and violence.” Jones v. State, 26 Tex. App. I; Beaverts v. State, 4 Tex. App. 1 75; Skidmore v. State, 43 Tex. 93, 903. “An illegal arrest is an assault and battery. The person so attempted to be restrained of his liberty has the same right to use force in defending himself as he would in repelling any other assault and battery.” (State v. Robinson, 145 ME. 77, 72 ATL. 260). “Each person has the right to resist an unlawful arrest. In such a case, the person attempting the arrest stands in the position of a wrongdoer and may be resisted by the use of force, as in self- defense.” (State v. Mobley, 240 N.C. 476, 83 S.E. 2d 100). Do individuals have the right to come to the aid of another citizens being falsely arrested? You bet they do. As another court case ruled: “One may come to the aid of another being unlawfully arrested, just as he may where one is being assaulted, molested, raped or kidnapped. Thus it is not an offense to liberate one from the unlawful custody of an officer, even though he may have submitted to such custody, without resistance.” (Adams v. State, 121 Ga. 16, 48 S.E. 910). And on the issue of actually killing an arresting officer in self defense:

[-] 1 points by itsybitsycheater (38) from Center Valley, PA 3 years ago

Good luck with that cowboy. The key phrase being, "being without fault...is in a place he has a RIGHT to be". When a person violates the ordinances or laws of any municipality, he/she has dropped from the "being without fault" category. You want an excuse to kill a cop? You seem a little anxious to have a whooping from a cop. You, and others like you are the reason OWS will implode.

[-] 1 points by leftfield (6) 3 years ago

I have no doubt that you are right on the law--peaceful protesters who are assaulted by police do have a legal case against them. However, that is not the only consideration. We are trying to influence the general public with our demonstrations, and they need to understand who is perpetrating violence and who is not. If we are peaceful, it puts the onus squarely on the police.

At this time, there are many people who need to be educated about the nature of our society. Responding to the police with violence in kind would result in the violent clash becoming the message, obscuring our reasons for protesting in the first place.

[-] 0 points by titus (13) 3 years ago

I am Not advocating violence, although I fear that may come to that. The legal post was to illustrate that the establishment no longer has any legitimacy. They are the ones who blatantly disregard the law. Law enforcing "officers" have degenerated into a goon squad of cowards under the cover of darkness, with their batches removed to hinder identification and future prosecution. Just like in Nirenberg would be the higher up who will hang. The police chiefs, the mayors and alike. Take heart. The tables have already turned. They are the ones afraid.

[-] -1 points by tsdevi (307) 3 years ago

This is true, but it also depends upon long term actions of government. People can only be docile up to a point. We are living in a time when Presidential elections have been stolen, when illegal and unethical wars are carried out at the expense of the people. We need to understand that the same brutality that our corrupted government has waged abroad will be waged against the people of the U.S. It is time for We the People to decide who the domestic enemies are, instead of being deemed as enemies of the state that is beholden to corporate ideologies.

[-] 1 points by itsybitsycheater (38) from Center Valley, PA 3 years ago

Violence only begets violence. Gandhi didn't need to use violence to effect change. Neither did Martin Luther King Jr. Those who seek to use violence as a means to address violence are as bad as the oppressors.

[-] 0 points by imstillhere (6) 3 years ago

copy-and-paste: sums up your post and the OWS's thinking.

[-] -1 points by tsdevi (307) 3 years ago

Are you an attorney?

[-] 0 points by BreadLandPeace (359) 3 years ago

No, but I'm suing the mega-rich Wall Street law firm that hired young secretaries a year and a half before they had to "lay off" older ones in their fifties and older--and this before the 2008 crash, which the law firm now claims was the reason the older secretaries and other staff lost their jobs. One of my lawyers joked that I was practicing without a license, which was a demotion, but of course I loved it. One of the lawyers for the other side had to keep asking me if I had written some of the documents I submitted pro se before some heroic civil rights lawyers took my case. What I learned in the movement, especially the fight for legalized abortion, is that what really decides a case is whether there's a mass movement fighting in the streets for what the lawyers fight for in court. What I learned from all those years as a legal secretary and seeing the defense lawyers in action is that they have no respect whatsoever for the law, and in fact use it to subvert our rights. And they have that gobblety-gook legal language full of Latin terms and footnotes that go on for pages to ensure that we don't know what they're up to.

Thank you.

[-] 0 points by tsdevi (307) 3 years ago

Ah, I guess that is a good reason to go to law school. Best of luck with the law suit, I pray you will get a good settlement.

[-] 0 points by BreadLandPeace (359) 3 years ago

Thank you, and I've seen the power of prayer. It wasn't part of my tradition, but then my father was seriously ill and in the hospital for almost a year, and I was shocked at some of the miracles that happened when I sent out prayer requests online for him. Please, could you pray that my judge doesn't grant this lawless law firm summary judgment and throw out my case? I didn't mean to sound immodest, but it was hard to act servile as a secretary for so many years, and I tried to use the time to educate myself. It's almost impossible for people like us, the 99%, to get legal justice, and that's why these legal criminals know they can carry out blatant discrimination--especially now with the recession/depression as an excuse. If it weren't for two courageous labor lawyers who have taken my case and that of another woman who was discriminated against, I wouldn't have a chance. These law firms know they're too big for most people to take on, and that they can outspend their opponents.

But even if you could go to law school, the student debt is even higher than for liberal arts majors--you read comments on blogs like Above The Law by lawyers graduating with $170,000 in loans--and not being able to get a job.

Thank God for the movement lawyers, they have already contributed so much to OWS.

Thanks for your most kind thoughts.

[-] 1 points by tsdevi (307) 3 years ago

Yes, I am aware of this which is what has kept me from attending for so long, knowing that I would want to be fighting the good fight and not on the side of monied interests. Wish me luck and I will pray for your case to be handled justly. I very much appreciate you telling me all of this, as it is this substance that keeps me going and caring about working and fighting for justice. Thank You! I know how frustrating it is to be expected to be obsequious to people, people who could not succeed were it not for your hard labor; and then to be so arrogant about their stature when it was simply because they had greater access to wealth and so got the legal degree. It's time to stop rewarding fake success and to start rewarding work. The legal profession is kind of funny, since so many people are becoming lawyers and the mystification of the law is actually being minimized. I learned that in the state of CA, over 60% of all divorces are done without the aid of an attorney, thanks to access to the proper paper work..there are some lawyers who want to make this not legal:). Fuckers! Sorry if that profanity is not allowed, but I direct it to an anonymous body, clearly;). Your case pisses me off even more because it shows how women are being treated like fodder and eye candy. This case is powerful and you might write a letter to the editor or to Bill Moyers. There is this great book that came out this past year, the title for which I forget at the moment, but I will find it today, about the reality of women's lives around the time of the feminine mystique. Rather grim and shocking, compared to the freedoms we take for granted now. I see us edging if not leaping back to that era and I perceive this trend as being directly because of the wealth disparity. I hope I am wrong. I too do not adhere to organized faith, but I am not a nihilist and I understand that the sum total of existence does not being and end with our crude experiences. I will pray for your case, therefore, and I will write a piece about it and send it to you, just for my own personal satisfaction. Thank you again, for sharing your experience and you are welcome to my kind thoughts!

[-] 0 points by BreadLandPeace (359) 3 years ago

Wow!!! What a great reply. I heard that people tried to unionize workers in law firms, but just couldn't succeed. If we'd had a union, the place I worked could never have done what they did. They particularly targeted people who had taken time off for illness and as caregivers, which for some reason just happened to be people in an age bracket who had elderly parents and were statistically more prone to illness. This firm even threw three women under the bus who were around sixty who'd had cancer in the past couple years, and God knows what that stress did to their immune systems. They also gave a written warning of termination to a gay man who'd been at the firm over 30 years who got AIDS and had to take time off for treatments. Above The Law quoted a manager, who was said to have remarked, "We didn't think anyone would care about staff." If anyone else wants to send good thoughts and energy for me and my former coworker to win justice in our cases, we have cases in federal court in NYC and appreciate all the help we can get.

Thanks again!

PS One of the retired partners actually represents Bill Moyers in some matters, so good luck with that. But I doubt he and other honorable lawyers had an idea what was going on with the plebes. I did have some really good experiences with some great people, the top of their profession, and I can't imagine they could have supported what was also an extremely racist "layoff" if they'd been told the truth.

[-] 0 points by tsdevi (307) 3 years ago

Yes, that is the linchpin! They just didn't think anybody would care!

[-] 0 points by BreadLandPeace (359) 3 years ago

And they also didn't think anyone could figure out their scheme to go on a hiring spree and hire tons of younger workers a year before the "layoff" so they could lay off some of the younger ones, and make it look as if younger and older staff had been let go in equal numbers; and in my department, hire, train and transfer much younger secretaries into "safe" jobs and then claim they suddenly didn't need the older ones they terminated. Thanks again!

[-] 0 points by tsdevi (307) 3 years ago

I realize that you are probably not allowed to discuss the case?

[-] -1 points by Zendude (75) from New York, NY 3 years ago

Thank you for taking the time to post case law. It is great. You know, most people don't realize that the father of non violence himself, Buddah, taught most eloquently that if the village is attacked, you must defend it!

[-] 1 points by BreadLandPeace (359) 3 years ago

However, there's psychology, and legal precedent isn't going to win over people who don't want to get arrested, don't identify with fighting the police (and undoubtedly have illusions about their role), and can't afford to go to jail, lose their job, and depend on a lawyer to rescue them. The contributions by lawyers to the movement are awesome and noble, but that's not enough. Isn't it a principle in martial arts that the best way to win a fight is to avoid it? I don't mean avoiding the fight for justice, I mean physical confrontations.

Thanks for your thoughts.

[-] 1 points by Zendude (75) from New York, NY 3 years ago

I taught a spiritual form of martial arts professionally for over twenty years before retiring in 2007. In our style, the question was: How do you win every fight? The answer: By never fighting. So yes, in principle you are totally correct.

However, a quick recap of how the martial arts came into being is necessary to reach a fuller understanding of fight/not fight. When Bodhidharma crossed over from India to China to establish Zen Buddhism, he took up residence in an area that is now known for the Shao Lin Monastery. It was there that he formulated very severe physical training for monks. There were two reasons. The first was to build up their physical strength to prepare them for the rigors of the spiritual training. The second was to give them a system that they could rely on, in case they had to fight. Monks were expected to leave the monastery, roam the country side as mendicants, and strive to enlighten people. Bodhidharma understood that this would not be an easy task, and that the monks, by the very nature of their teachings, would be put at risk.

Do we want to fight or even seek out a situation in which we will be forced to fight? No, we truly believe that not fighting and non violence are the way. My master taught me that it is even better to be hit once or twice without fighting back, if that will end a confrontation. However, when faced with a life or death situation, whether to protect ourselves or innocents, we must use everything we have learned to prevail--even blows that would lead to instantaneous death.

When our country was started, I am sure that most of the colonists just wanted to live a "normal life" and did not want to "get into trouble." However, history has shown that as the revolutionary movement grew, more and more regular people overcame their fear and eventually took action in support of their beliefs.

[-] 1 points by tsdevi (307) 3 years ago

A great post as usual. I took karate briefly, but the instructor was more focused on technique than philosophy, which had its merits. Those colonists who did not want to be involved with the American Revolution were the ones who did not have a problem with the Crown, mostly those who were more well established economically, having been there for longer than other colonists. I learned that when the Constitution was ratified, those who failed to support it, the influential ones, were...disposed of. State building is not a pretty thing. Luckily this is not our task, since we have a set of principles that are widely regarded as valuable and integral to the human condition: rational society that is not burdened by an oppressive ruling class. I was watching Shields and Brooks on PBS Newshour last Friday and apparently, as Shields cited, The Wall Street Journal, the majority of the people in the U.S. agree that economic inequality is a big problem...go figure. The question is what is the best way to correct this. The interests that have made this happen are not going to back off without a fight of there own, as we see now. The most important thing is to keep the dialogue going. I am reading an excellent book: Bloombergs' New York: Class and Governance in the Luxury City. It illustrates how the current Mayor's popularity is because of the economic trends that were developed in the postindustrial economy: the marriage between government and business, which claims to make government operate as a business, but in reality truly uses government for the purposes of the elite professional class. This has come at the expense of so many working people. The American people have been sold out and condescended by their government and its time to take it back.

[-] 1 points by BreadLandPeace (359) 3 years ago

Thank you, your ideas are really appreciated and very interesting. Your last comments remind me of something called a defensive formulation that I learned about in the Trotskyist movement in the late 60's, early '70's in New York. It meant that you never allowed yourself, your cause, to be identified as the aggressor--again, psychology. When the government attacked the antiwar movement, our response was always, we were just exercising our right of free speech. (However, it was an historic struggle to marginalize the crazies, who were often infiltrators, who did everything they could to lead the movement into violent confrontations and thus destroy its mass appeal.)

I remember (please excuse that I'm repeating an earlier comment) someone explaining what a defensive formulation means in terms of armed self-defense, which you mention. They used the example of Malcolm X, who, when a reporter would try to get him to say he advocated violence, replied that, no, he was against violence. But when the Americans turned their guns on the British in the American Revolution, was that violence? (That's pretty close to your analogy.) Malcolm's response made it impossible for the reporter to mischaracterize him without an outright lie.

As someone else mentioned here, we have to expose where the real violence comes from in this society--the violence of throwing people out of a job, out of their homes, stealing their pensions. It does get media coverage to get into battles with the police, but not the kind of coverage we want. (I read that the news consists of celebrities and disasters, although maybe they're the same thing...)

Thanks very much for your thoughtful reply.

[-] 0 points by musashiz (16) 3 years ago

It amazes me how some are so dependent on the system that the very thought of changing it upsets them. Ok so you have a good job, paying off your debt, own a house, a car, good for you. thats great that the system is working for you. ask yourself who do you work for? government? IT? financial sector? do you know any teachers that are getting laid off? do you know anyone who was foreclosed upon even though they were current on their payments? do you know anyone that lives near coal fired power plants who has seen their families and loved ones all die of cancer?

its only natural that you would troll and post on these postings because you have become complacent. instead of knowing the truth, you believe in your own untruth that gives you a rush as you type and click "post". as you sit behind your computer those who know truth sit in front of police with good chance of being beaten by those who are meant to protect and serve them.

stop serving your way of thinking and stop hating on those who take action. if you dont like it, continue working or whatever your sheepish life revolves around. we are trying to make a better world for us and our children.

[-] 1 points by itsybitsycheater (38) from Center Valley, PA 3 years ago

It amazes me that someone who wants the "system" to take care of them has the audacity to criticize anyone who opposes them, and label them as static. Is that how you see everyone else? Your way, or the highway? Your way, or others are stupid? Do you know teachers are public servants? Who do they work for? Maybe I resent my tax dollars being used to pay public sector employees to indoctrinate my kids. Maybe I see it differently. Maybe you would too if thousands of people like me squatted in your neighborhood, kept you up all night with incessant drum banging, fouled your back yard with feces and garbage, and kept you from your peace. Think about it.

[-] 1 points by musashiz (16) 3 years ago

Your statement is riddled with assumptions. I have a job, i have a band, i have an apartment, i go to school, I have debt. I have never been taken care of.

Look if no one considered an 'adult' who is responsible is going to do anything about this out of control government run by wall street, then you deserve to have your whole house crapped on. People live in detestable conditions all over this country. They have no peace. You give no thought to them when you have your own temporary peace. 46 million people in america live below the poverty level and you keep your smug attitude about how your life should be. Enough! I would bang drums so no one could sleep if it meant we could have some decency and economic equality. Your generation might be content with the way things are but not ours!

[-] 1 points by NonParticipant (151) 3 years ago

OWS is allowed to protest. I'm allowed to protest OWS. Protesting is not hating. Disagreeing is not trolling.

I have no problem with OWS doing whatever. I will have a problem with OWS when OWS interferes with my life and my family, and it is not of my choosing. Then the hating will start.

[-] 1 points by musashiz (16) 3 years ago

how is it possible that ows is interfering with your life? again a plain example of complacency. gas prices go up, food prices go up, job security worsens, medicare/medicaid becomes under attack, social security is being privatized, corporations get the same right as people... your ok with all of that? and at the same time ows is interfering with your life? Wall street has crashed your economy and you are against the grassroots movement to stop wall street.... please please explain yourself you make no sense

[-] 0 points by Dio1313 (69) 3 years ago

Yes dumbass! If you idiots are blocking roads, entrances, and public transportation, then you are interfering. I love coming to this site and reading all of your dumbass comments, It makes me feel even smarter. Does that make sense?

[-] -1 points by NonParticipant (151) 3 years ago

I didn't say OWS was interfering in my life NOW. OWS is not interfering in my life right NOW. That's why I said they can do whatever, and I have the same right to dissent against OWS.

I said IF OWS BEGINS to interfere in my life then that's a different story. If OWS gets their way and "topples" Wall Street, then you start messing with my life. If OWS has a negative effect on Wall Street, then my standard of living is affected, my employers ability to operate is threatened, the stability of this country is in danger. Then you are interfering in my life.

This is what really worries me about OWS. Talk of revolution, the "people's" this and that, comrades, etc. That elicits the history of the Russian revolution and Mao's People's revolution. Everyone was at the poverty level, everyone was miserable and starving because the entire infrastructure of the country was destroyed. Except there are a few in charge who knew better than the "people" how things should be handled. They slowly rise to power, while the "people" are miserable. "All animals are equal. Some are more equal than others." Then the cycle begins again. Human nature is human nature. It's nice to think that everyone wants to be on a level playing field, but it's not doable over long stretches of time of time without force or brainwashing, neither of which I want to live with.

I've been laid off 4 times in my work life, my husband has been laid off 4 times in his, we've lost money in the stock market, we've had financial difficulties & personal hurts. We got up, dusted off our rear ends, figured out what needed to be done, and did it. I don't tell you this to pat myself on the back. I tell you this so you will understand that I live life just like everyone else. I like my life. I am happy. Sorry if that upsets you.

[-] 2 points by leftfield (6) 3 years ago

Hi NonP: Sorry to hear of your personal struggles, which are very common these days. As to your life being upset, notice what musashiz said in the above comment:

"gas prices go up, food prices go up, job security worsens, medicare/medicaid becomes under attack, social security is being privatized, corporations get the same right as people... Wall street has crashed your economy..."

These things all affect you, and all of us. Do you want an old age without Social Security? Do you want medical care to be unaffordable when you are sick? Just let Wall Street continue as they have, and these bad things will happen to you and to most of the rest of us. That is why OWS is fighting against Wall Street. It is not a good life when you must have a job to live but keep getting laid off, when there is no security for those who have "difficulties", which includes the great majority of us.

We do not live in a poor society that cannot afford to lift up those of us who are suffering, that cannot provide any security to its citizens. That we are in the middle of such great wealth and yet so many are denied basic needs like health care, secure housing, etc., is a great crime. That is what OWS is fighting against.

[-] 0 points by NonParticipant (151) 3 years ago

Don't be sorry about my personal struggles. I call it LIFE. Prices go up, things change, presidents & companies come and go. I call that life. I've made plans for my retirement without counting on social security. I call that life.

I see this turning ugly and violent. Why not take all that effort, energy and organizing power to change things at the polls, educating the public, get different people to run for office, etc?

We obviously are not going to agree on this issue, so I'm going to close and go on to other things. Thanks for your replies, all.

[-] 0 points by musashiz (16) 3 years ago

please understand this is one of the last things we have available to do. there is evidence of widespread voter fraud, those in power show evidence of have actually no power and being forced to bow down to private interests. this is a form of education on a grassroots level which is the only way things truly get accomplished.

Thank you for your replies it was a pleasure debating.

[-] 0 points by ronimacarroni (1089) 3 years ago

Well although I don't agree with interfering with people's lives, I'll be damned before I defend or justify one of the current major financial institutions for any reason whatsoever.

If they go bankrupt I'll get a party hat and celebrate.

[-] -1 points by NonParticipant (151) 3 years ago

Even if the bankruptcy means it ruins my life? Nice.

[-] 0 points by musashiz (16) 3 years ago

Im sorry but your logic serves those closer to the rich and not the poor. just because all street works for you its not justifiable to say that is the way it should be. just because you are comfortable in your little bubble you call your life it does not make it ok for all of the millions of people that wall street negatively affects. i guess we will just have to agree to disagree on that one.

Theres no certainty, only opportunity. the russian revolution ect were completely different countries with completely different circumstances. Its lso unfortunate that you believe that some in power know better than the people. This is not possible as they never come in contact with people. They live in their mansions, drive their cars to where they are going, and make decisions based on who pays them the most. there is no way that they could possibly understand average people and the needs of them because they are not one of them.

I must also disagree with you on human nature. I think the idea that a level playing field being impossible is something that you have been programmed to believe to serve the power structure. Before the industrial revolution humans lived for decades upon decades primitively, in tribes, yes there were tribe leaders but they are not like the leaders we have today, they truly served the people and when it came down to it they were all equal, they all ate the same amount, and all hunted and gathered the same. this modern way of living is fairly recent. you need to extend your recollection of history farther back. you limit yourself too much. a mighty god is a living man.

i applaud you in your ability to bounce back. most of the protestors have the same story, laid off, went back to school, got a job, ect. we are not protesting unemployment. we have repeated this over and over and people have trouble understanding this for some reason. we are protesting the elite 1% of the population that control everything in your and my life. Me and you should be in control of our life. that is pure common sense. if you dont want to be in control of your own life then so be it. we arent hating on you for not participating so please stop hating on us for participating.

[-] -1 points by NonParticipant (151) 3 years ago

I am not "hating on you", I am protesting your protest. That is my legal right, just as it your legal right to protest. As far as human nature, it's possible that hundreds/thousands of years ago people were equal. Are you talking about during the feudal system where there were property owners and serfs? Are you talking about the Roman era where Nero burned the Christians? Are you talking about the era where the Church ruled much of the world? Are you talking about monarchies with their peasants? Power has always risen to the top and always will. There will always be the strong and the weak. Thanks for the discussion, we will have to agree to disagree. I do not wish you harm if you are on the front lines.

[-] 0 points by musashiz (16) 3 years ago

I guess it just boils down to the fact that I have more hope in humans that you. I truly have faith in a better day because I have personally met beautiful people throughout my life that have influenced me and proved the existence of humanity within all of us. Faith vs. Non-faith. the classic rivalry :)

[-] 1 points by ronimacarroni (1089) 3 years ago

Well yeah, we are dependent on the system.

If you can't go to work you can't pay the bills.

[-] 0 points by musashiz (16) 3 years ago

are you ok with that? ows is your chance to potentially change that

[-] 0 points by Blue (2) 3 years ago

Doubtful.

[-] 0 points by musashiz (16) 3 years ago

Please have hope! This movement is based on the idea of hope for a better future.

[-] 0 points by ronimacarroni (1089) 3 years ago

Still, for now if you don't allow people to go to work you're depriving them of their ability to pay the bills.

[-] 0 points by musashiz (16) 3 years ago

Change only happens through everyone's struggle. There are already lots of people who have been educated that have never been able to pay bills. Some must sacrifice so that you can live your comfortable life and this is the balance of that.

[-] 0 points by Blue (2) 3 years ago

Good luck with that!

[-] -3 points by MrDman (-57) 3 years ago

And I guess you just know it all.....Fuck off Moron

[-] 0 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 3 years ago

That's such a nice comment, for someone who totes the Bible. How's hypocrisy serving you these days?

[-] 0 points by holdingcompany (5) 3 years ago

Great poster!!! Nice to see the fantastic graphic artists supporting the 99%!

[-] 0 points by Adam (116) 3 years ago

If I show up to shut down Wall Street I am not leaving until the money is all distributed properly.

[-] 2 points by artistNJ (3) 3 years ago

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.

[-] -1 points by Adam (116) 3 years ago

I doubt it.

[-] -2 points by tsdevi (307) 3 years ago

Right On!

[-] 0 points by bohratom (22) 3 years ago

To even hint that the US is like China is ludicrous. Poster is a big fail.

[-] 0 points by mio (5) 3 years ago

I know there's some Ron P aul supporters in the OWS movement and I sincerely hope many listen to them as they will show you the light to our dark problem. Remember this quote as we are a Republic not a Democracy. "Democracy is the road to socialism." -Karl Marx

Why is Dr. Paul censored??? Now I am highly questioning this movement motives in the first amendment protection.

[-] -1 points by jph (2652) 3 years ago

OWS supports no proxy politicians. People posting that craphere are just users.

[-] -1 points by mio (5) 3 years ago

This is about censorship of his name, nor am I advocating support for the movement but his positions. Put your one sided anger to the side it won't help you.

[-] 0 points by jph (2652) 3 years ago

Read the board rules, it is simple. This is not a site for political campaigns. None are accepted.

This is a movement of the people, to tear down a broken oppressive system of wealth redistribution from the many to the few.

40-50 percent of every dollar goes to pay interest to private for-profit banksters, this is ending now.

[-] 0 points by OWStotallySUCKS (3) 3 years ago

awsome idea to occupy the subways. This way we in the top 1 pct do not have to see your ugly, smelly asses anymore. Ohh and we take cabs or limos! FU

[-] 1 points by MrDman (-57) 3 years ago

LOL...The filthy idiots are trying to make it hard on real Americans to get to their jobs....And that helps them how?

[-] 1 points by titus (13) 3 years ago

A REAL American would be more concerned about the constitution than making sure that he can be on time in his cubical slaving for the Americorp.

[-] 0 points by benthare (4) 3 years ago

What a polite Post of indifference, Truly! You mention fear that’s what OWS at it’s core wants to tackle at it’s core. Just Type 2 subjects into your search engine and see who you really have to Fear: 1. Grover Norquist, 2. Bilderberg group.

[-] 0 points by FreeMarkets (272) 3 years ago

Nice 1950's Commie look. That will go over real well with Joe SixPack.

[-] 1 points by sfmadman (9) 3 years ago

They've decided not to use it anymore. Shows how much you pay attention.

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 3 years ago

I can't post that here

[-] 0 points by artistNJ (3) 3 years ago

I'm a 45 year old artist. Not exactly establishment and I want to feel for your cause but you aren't defining yourselves. Yes you have some talking points but your all over the place. If you don't get a cohesive agenda your movement is destined for failure. Your fight isn't with "Wall Street". Just because your for commune living and sleeping in each others filth doesn't mean anyone else is. Human beings are greedy by nature. You will not change human nature. America is a capitalist society because it is the essence of freedom. Do what you want, Look out for number one. Your Argument is with the Federal government and their policies. Not with the working man trying to get what he can out of life. Organize your mission statement and stop occupying. Do you think Iraq likes that we are occupying their land or Afghanistan? Your problem is that you seem like a bunch of entitled brats aimlessly bumping heads with the powers that be for the sake of angst. As long as your dirty and and derelict no one wants to be you. And as long as no one want to be you, you will fail. Get an image that doesn't abhor people.

[-] 4 points by Zendude (75) from New York, NY 3 years ago

Honestly, how many paychecks away are all of us from being homeless? Two or three? What happens when you do become homeless after not getting those paychecks? Chances are you will quickly sink into a life of squalor; little food, no roof, few showers, and dirty, unwashed clothes. Do you really think there is any difference between you and the "dirty and the derelict," just because you are clean and still get a paycheck? None of us are any better than anyone else, and the sooner all of us open our eyes to the reality of just how close we all are to the plight of the "dirty and derelict," the better. It is time to realize that when one suffers, we are all to blame. First try thinking about, and then ultimately embrace the concept "all for one, once and for all." All of us together, with or without an "agenda," can and will change this world.

[-] 2 points by artistNJ (3) 3 years ago

Hey Zen Dude that's not a very Zen-like attitude. I have a family and I have made it my mission to make sure that I can provide and I am not 4 or 34 paycheck away from being homeless. there is something wrong with this picture though when the supposedly homeless have computers with internet. Whose paying for that? For your electricity? For your programs that help the honest single moms who can't work or don't have childcare. How many more could be helped if we weren't subsidizing your movement. Voltaire said, “The art of government is to make two-thirds of a nation pay all it possibly can pay for the benefit of the other third.” I guess you people are comfortable being a burden. I am not anti-protest, I just know a bandwagon when I see one and yours has a lot of dangerous, lazy, dropouts that are looking for a legal way not to repay their student loans.

[-] 3 points by pepki (-13) 3 years ago

hey artistnj, not very artistic of you, eh? NOT being a couple paychecks from being broke or homeless? Not a typical artist. You in the Ad business? I know a few of those "artists", selling GE snake oil, making women dance with their mops, selling gold to people who can't afford to buy food. You got some attitude yourself, when you were treated respectfully by Zendude. I'm not quite so Zen, being from the plus 40 crowd and pretty sick and pissed off at Tea bagger trolls like you. I don't mince my words around the ignorant, shallow and selfish who refuse to wake up when history is smacking them in the face with compassion and hope every so gently, ever so respectfully. I admire the restraint these young, highly educated rebels have shown in the face of idiots like you. I don't have that kind of restraint being an old mom, a teacher, an actual artist, and sick and tired of your kind of tea bagger crap.
THere is so much to learn from these rebels who have worked really hard to get nothing from a country that only respects wealth and brutality. Wake up old man. The world is changing and it belongs to our yung uns!

[-] 1 points by itsybitsycheater (38) from Center Valley, PA 3 years ago

Oh, you are the picture of grace and "artistry", aren't you? "Teabaggers", selling "GE snake oil", "making women dance with their mops", "selling gold to people who can't afford to buy food". Just WHO buys gold when they can't buy food, and WHO is forcing anyone to buy anything? History is "smacking us in the face". True. It's a wake up call that is almost as breathtaking as the pervasive stench of the OWS sidewalk shit and roach dirt.

[-] 1 points by chunkylover (27) 3 years ago

Here we go. Now we're getting to some more of the groups that would need to go to create your perfect society: Ad business people, people employed by GE, commodities business people, Tea Party people, people who have 3 or more paychecks in savings. How many zendudes would the American de-kulakization process need to eliminate? That's really what the 99% needs to know.

[-] 1 points by sfmadman (9) 3 years ago

Okay, so Voltaire agreed with you that the majority of the population should be enslaved. That doesn't make it right. Besides, according to the constitution, WE are the government - elected officials are supposed to represent us. As far I can tell, they aren't. They are representing the interests of corporations at our expense.

[-] 1 points by Sly (19) from Brattleboro, VT 3 years ago

"lazy, dropouts that are looking for a legal way not to repay their student loans"

I see this lie being propogated everywhere. It's the college graduates who are by no means lazy that are hurting the most. You get told in high school that you can't get a job without a college degree. You can't get into college without good grades and student loans. So you work hard, for four years in high school, then work hard for four years in college, and then guess what? You can't get a job in your field. If you're lucky, you can get a min. wage job that won't turn you away for being overqualified. You can't get an apartment. You can't get transportation, or childcare, and the banks you got your loans from refuse to lower your monthly bill to something reasonable and stack late fees on late fees and drive you into the ground with threats, garnishing your wages (should you have any), or seizing your car (which you need to get your paycheck that won't even cover you the gas you need to get to work), or going after your co-signer while you stand by helplessly.

And you get told it's all your fault for being LAZY. An entry level job will garner 200 applications, but you can bet the position's going to go to the manager's son, because the rest of us are too LAZY.

The longer the previous generation is willing to place the blame on the younger for circumstances we didn't create while you enjoy the fruits of opportunities we will never have, the more likely I think this nation is going to be torn apart by civil war.

[-] 1 points by itsybitsycheater (38) from Center Valley, PA 3 years ago

Then blame the UNIVERSITIES who overcharge the students, laughing all the way to the bank, along with the Professors who obviously aren't really teaching you anything except how to be a victim. You owe so much for student loans because universities charge way too much. Nobody forced you to go to college, and nobody forced you to take out student loans. Deal with it. You're not the first, the last, or the worst.

[-] 1 points by artistNJ (3) 3 years ago

Do you think Occupy will pay your bills? Getting a job is a job. If you were half as good at your chosen field as you are at whining you'd be working. And by the way I'm not a teabagger or a defender of big business. I work hard and I support a family. I've been down to the park early on when I thought it was admirable now I'm not sure. You seem aimless. Protesting for the sake of protesting. I am for change but I'm raising kids and I've witnessed first hand the most pampered generation in history growing up. Somehow it doesn't surprise me that when the going get tough the pampered don't get going. They whine about how unfair it all is. I know it's been fashionable the last 20 or so years to be correct with every kid "Losers get a trophy too" but that not life. There is a terrible recession going on. Brought about by deregulation and greed. All I'm saying is focus on the problem. You should all be in front of the white house. Not clogging up the streets of Manhattan.

[-] 0 points by Sly (19) from Brattleboro, VT 3 years ago

I did not say that. I did not even say I was unemployed (although I do happen to be and not looking right now because my children are aged 1 and 3). I said this is the reality and it has nothing to do with laziness. I'm saying that there is a major shortage of opportunities, and not just in this country, but world-wide. I'm pointing my finger at the giant international banks that have turned so many first-world governments into kleptocracies. We don't have a government. THEY have our government. Right and Left don't matter when both sides are dangling from a money chain.

[-] 0 points by BreadLandPeace (359) 3 years ago

I promise this is my last post tonight, but I remember a great comment from the civil rights movement: "Black is being so lazy and shiftless that you scrub floors all day long."

[-] 0 points by artistNJ (3) 3 years ago

Thats pretty to the point Bread since your all basically sitting on your asses demanding 40 acres and a mule.

[-] 0 points by jdnreha (85) 3 years ago

Then do the min wage job, what you think your better than that? Get three if that's what it takes. Im 27 sly and have 2 jobs, and go to school full time, and have a wife and kids. One of the jobs I started in 2009 making min wage, now I make more than twice min wage because I was the best I could be. I didnt really have to do that much, just give a little effort in life. min wage is better than no wage!

[-] 1 points by JustaNote (1) 3 years ago

The min. wage IS "economic equality"....We're all equal there. Not a one of us can be paid less than min. wage...BY LAW....Which, by the way, is equal, but not FAIR, AND it's the government's INFRINGEMENT upon EVERY American individual's rights. Of which includes the freedom of an individual to act on his own judgment: to pursue his values; to strive for his goals; to work and toKEEP THE PRODUCT OF HIS WORK(i.e. money); to associate and trade with others; to act for the attainment of his own happiness.....But freedom DEMANDS personal responsibility. And that is the part many avoid...whether they are part of the 1%, or the 99%. Greed is NOT, wanting to hold onto what is yours....Greed is,however, wanting to TAKE what is NOT yours to make it yours....and that INCLUDES taxation to fund other people's lives.(It's called theft, if the individual was to do it.)

"Economic equality" is impossible, if freedom is to exist. Equality only truly exists in the individual Rights we all have; the right to "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness"....we aren't equal in just about everything else, and we CAN'T be....we're different people, with different skills, education, bodies, looks, values, and different aspirations, with different potential...We are not equal in these things and others, nor can we be.... The guarantee of "economic liberty"-- the right to earn an honest living free from excessive government regulation. That's worth protesting for!

[-] 0 points by Sly (19) from Brattleboro, VT 3 years ago

I didn't say I was too good for it. I said the reason I've been given for being turned away was that I was "overqualified." I said that minimum wage will not support living expenses. I said this is the America young people face. I did not say what my personal situation was.

As it happens, I'm 28 and married with 2 small children and living in public housing. My husband and I graduated in 2005 and were married shortly after. He started a job (not in his field) while I stayed home and worked on starting my own business. We lived paycheck to paycheck in a rundown apartment, but we thought, hey, that's part of starting out. He suffered a physical injury while I suffered a miscarriage, both of which were very difficult since we had no health insurance. Because he had been working a manual labor job, he couldn't work anymore. He found a job that was not manual labor, but then they laid him off without even telling him that they had (and as such got some free labor out if him). We tried to survive off of food stamps and his unemployment while we both searched for jobs and failed to find anything. During that time we used up our student loan deferment. We moved into another apartment with a friend of mine who also has a college degree and cannot find better than part-time work. My husband finally got a job that a friend literally created for him and things stabilized long enough for me two have our first child. The small company he worked at was bought out by a larger one and he was laid off. My son was three months old (and we were several thousand dollars in debt to the local hospital too, because the $140 per month we paid for health insurance meant the health insurance gets to keep our money and let us pay for medical bills too). We got on the waiting list for public housing and were told the wait would be at least a year. It took us a year to get into low-income housing and my husband had only found seasonal part-time work (this time through a friend) in that time. Three months later and with a second child on the way a temp agency finally had a job for my husband that became a permanent job. We recently got into public housing after waiting two years, but are so in debt and still living from paycheck to paycheck that we have almost no hope of ever being independent. I have hopes of starting my business back up when my kids are in preschool, but my credit is so bad (from my student loans alone! I've never owned a credit card or a car) I don't know if it will be possible.

You are lucky that your wage improved. I have a friend who is in school getting his THIRD degree and has been working a minimum wage job for six years. While he has seen some pay raise, they cut his hours so his income did not actually increase. He's getting his third degree to keep his loans in deferment, as he doesn't really expect the third one will give him a better chance at finding a job than the first two.

[-] 0 points by jdnreha (85) 3 years ago

GEICO is hiring in Tucson at $15/hr for anyone with a bachelors degree, our cost of living is low enough that a family of four could survive off or the two of you working there until you get better positions. (az min wage when i started: $6.50, now i think its ~$7.25). I make $14.65/hr with benefits to cover my family. There are much better places for me to live, but I hate snow. I dont know what your fields are in, however, in Tucson, with some of the worst markest (top 10 in the nation), theres still chance. You may want to consider it.

[-] 0 points by Sly (19) from Brattleboro, VT 3 years ago

It is possible that they are hiring in Tucson. Good luck to anyone in the area. I watched my father get hired and leave the state and found an apartment and everything only to end up jobless three months later and further in debt for the effort...twice in one year. My husband and roommate might not make $15/hour, but I don't think abandoning our communities where we have put down roots is the answer to the economic crisis.

[-] 1 points by jdnreha (85) 3 years ago

So what is the answer? I gave you real solution, it may not be the ideal one, but one anyways. If you prefer to live in poverty and live in section 8 housing ( i dont, I like my nice house and not being dependent on the government) then by all means do it. But if you want to rise and make your own path, then do that, but dont blame someone else for your circumstances, and assume you should be entitled to anything in this world. and again, what is the answer?

[-] 0 points by pepki (-13) 3 years ago

spot on! And my daughter lives in Brattleboro. Great town! Full of smart people!

[-] 0 points by tsdevi (307) 3 years ago

Yeah, its fashionable to denigrate those who are already down trodden, because people are afraid of change and want to pretend that what they know will be there, even if it sucks!

I grew up in Brattleboro, how are things after the hurricane?

[-] 0 points by Sly (19) from Brattleboro, VT 3 years ago

Pretty good, actually. Most of the businesses on Flat Street are open again. Williams Street still has a "no through" sign on it, though. Don't know if they just forgot to take it down or the road is still washed out over there.

[-] 0 points by tsdevi (307) 3 years ago

I hope to visit the area again someday, glad that it has recovered.

[-] -1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 3 years ago

I totally agree. It's NOT the younger generations who've created this damn mess, but they'll spend plenty of time cleaning it up for those who did.

[-] 2 points by itsybitsycheater (38) from Center Valley, PA 3 years ago

Yea, that's right. And the entitlements you demand will be hung around the necks of your children and grandchildren. What the hell is wrong with you people? The only people I know complaining they're free. Begging to be on the government teat. No, it isn't corporations controlling government. It's a mutual arrangement.

The only way to effect change is to stop government collusion. Be involved politically, be informed and KNOW HISTORY. We can't dictate or inhibit how much money a corporation or business makes, but we can control who we let run our government. Get with it. OWS is hitting a brick wall over and over. It's ridiculous.

[-] 1 points by angelhugs (12) from Durant, OK 3 years ago

I'm sorry...but I think you are wrong! This is not a movement of lazy people for lazy people and for everyone to keep saying/believing that is just silly!! Really, by definition lazy people are....well lazy. You must have no idea how much time and dedication and well....work it takes to be actively involved in such a movement. And as for your "how many more people could be helped" question. Americans are funding this. Americans that are paying their taxes and still manage to have some available to donate to a good cause. I can't speak for everyone, but I myself feel much better about donating to this cause (knowing where/what my money is doing) then donating any of my money (taxes) to the government so they can use it to further remove my freedoms. Please educate yourself on what your government has been up to lately. Stop believing what they and their media outlets tell you. They LIE! Be open minded enough to stop and talk with a protester or two...find out why they are there. I can promise you....they are from all walks of life.

[-] 1 points by Zendude (75) from New York, NY 3 years ago

I am sure that the 99% does include "a lot of dangerous, lazy, dropouts that are looking for a legal way not to repay their student loans," however, they are only a mirror of the society in which they live. I answered your posting with the hope that it would help you to open your eyes. Obviously, you believe that you have totally secured your family's future. Do you honestly, really believe that the best laid plans of mice and men, including yours, cannot be torn asunder? What will it take in your life for you to realize that no one is immune--a hurricane, a tsunami, or an earthquake? In the words of Phil Ochs, "There but for fortune may go you or I." Try a little empathy; it will change your life.

[-] -2 points by pepki (-13) 3 years ago

brilliantly said.

[-] -2 points by tsdevi (307) 3 years ago

Are you kidding with that crap? The burden is the finance industry, the military industrial complex and corporate welfare. If this is news to you, you need to read up! Open your eyes! Don't be afraid of the inevitable change, be a positive part of that change. Spare me, poor people without homes can have things, its not like homeless people once did not have homes, hell, many of them have never been homeless before. I know I'll be keeping my lap top if I am every homeless, or maybe I'll just send it to OWS!

[-] 1 points by itsybitsycheater (38) from Center Valley, PA 3 years ago

If "poor" people can "have things", like laptops and $600 smartphones, then they aren't poor, and they have no idea what poor is. None of you do. You have no idea what real hunger is, or real oppression. You're soft like play-dough. It's hysterical reading your posts. Like blind dogs barking feverishly at a doorbell on TV, while a robber slips in and out of the owners living room, stealing anything he can find. It's sad too. It scares me to think that my children and grandchildren will be living among people who have no idea how to survive, and expect prosperity should fall in their laps.

Your neighbor has 2 cars, a huge home, and an olympic sized swimming pool, You have 1 car, a small home and no pool. Does this mean your neighbor has taken anything from you? Is your house gone? Your car? I would pity you, but your resentment of what others have is disgusting.

[-] -2 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 3 years ago

People can use computers at libraries for free. Not everyone who is online owns a computer.

[-] -1 points by jdnreha (85) 3 years ago

Where the question is a good one, you forget that the people in our lives will help us out if we are not greedy / rude / and uncaring. About two years ago, I just had my first kid, and lost my job, and everything else. I prayed (not normal of me, and I dont know if it helped, but it didnt hurt), and I asked for help from friends and family. From there, family gave shelter, friends offered shelter, and gave me a ride to school so I could get a better job, and then I came back from no work, home, or life without the governments help. I never would have considered me to be "dirty and the derelict". Any state that you are in, you can go either up or down.

[-] 0 points by Sly (19) from Brattleboro, VT 3 years ago

What happens when your friends and family can't help because they are in the same situation? I wish I had spare money for my parents, who are closer to disaster than my own household. Which isn't right. My father worked hard long hours for all my childhood, but his savings are gone and he has a hard time finding work because he's over 60. My mother can only find part-time work. My 95-year-old grandma helps them pay the mortgage, but her funds are limited.

[-] 1 points by Rob (881) 3 years ago

10% unemployment, although very high, means 90% employed. the odds are decidedly in your favor that someone would be willing to help, so long as you are willing to help yourself.

[-] 0 points by jdnreha (85) 3 years ago

yet, you all live in separate houses, you think my wife liked living in my parents house? If you were truly that tight on money, set aside your pride, and help your family out.

[-] 0 points by Sly (19) from Brattleboro, VT 3 years ago

My brothers live with my parents. One of them has part-time employment. Note that they live in another state, 500 miles away. It cost us $2,000 just to move three blocks INTO public housing, money we had to borrow from my grandmother, who lives with her sister. And we have another graduate from our school living with us. We're hardly living independently.

[-] 1 points by jdnreha (85) 3 years ago

me, my wife, my oldest, and new born live with my parents in there house while we were struggling. We didnt have $2000 dollars worth of stuff to move, we were too broke. The condo was a 2 bedroom 865sqft place. I will tell you, that will motivate you to get your ass in gear and do what it takes. who was to blame, me.

[-] -1 points by Bambi (359) 3 years ago

It's not my fault and I won't take the blame for you suffering. That is YOUR choice not mine. If you are so poor how do you have a computer?

[-] 2 points by Zendude (75) from New York, NY 3 years ago

I don't know how you misconstrued my words to arrive at the conclusion that I am homeless. I am not homeless. However, I can certainly empathize with the homeless and realize that in reality there is only illusion that separates all of us.

[-] 0 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 3 years ago

Libraries let people use computers for free. I guess you've never had to do that, huh? Oh.... the irony....

[-] 1 points by itsybitsycheater (38) from Center Valley, PA 3 years ago

Oh sure. You were at the "library" when you posted that huh? Oh ....... the hypocrisy ....................

[-] -1 points by pepki (-13) 3 years ago

Bambi, I'm not as patient as these OWS folks. OMG! You are so dumb, how are you even able to type? Are you not aware that a computer today is no different from having a pair of shoes, or a wallet? They are cheap! Computers have become a vital tool for finding work, connecting with fools like you, writing resumes, running movements... These kids (sorry OWS folks, I'm an over the hill mom) are using the tools this society has left them. It doesn't take a rich person to get hold of them. If a poor person can own a jalopy, why not a laptop? Use the brain in your skull for a change. Or shut up. Oops, now I sound like a tea bagger. Sorry. Feel free to share your ignorance with the world!

[-] 1 points by itsybitsycheater (38) from Center Valley, PA 3 years ago

OMG, you are so, like MORONIC!! ... What's good for the goose.....You think having a $600 smartphone or a $500 laptop GETS YOU TO WORK? Your lack of reasoning skills are astounding. Just because these things have become "vital tools", as you say, does not mean they are affordable for the poor. You are NOT poor if you can afford a cell phone bill, an internet/cable expense or other cost repetitive gadgets. You are poor when you either can't afford these items or have to sell these items in order to eat and pay your rent. That's poor. You think computers are cheap? You have no idea what poor is. Why don't you use that PEA in your head (if you can stop it from rolling around in that empty, cavernous sphere above your neck ) and think about how ignorant you are to assume computers, smartphones and high tech gadgets are affordable for everyone. Obviously you have never been poor, and your OWS fascination is merely a temporary distraction to save you from the boredom of picking out coordinated sheets and linens from your Sears catalog.

[-] -2 points by tsdevi (307) 3 years ago

Yes, it's the false pride that keeps people mystified by our dysfunctional culture. This movement is about helping to increase the quality of life, not to diminish it.

[-] 1 points by imstillhere (6) 3 years ago

This movement is about helping to increase the quality of life, not to diminish it.

Please tell me you don't believe you are modeling that increased quality at the occupy sites.

[-] -1 points by tsdevi (307) 3 years ago

Obviously not. The people are there to highlight that there is a problem. Economic disparity is not sustainable and an increased quality of life does not simply mean materially, but also socially, where people feel free to communicate, to share and to talk about pressing matters openly and honestly. This is a movement that is long overdue.

[-] 2 points by tsdevi (307) 3 years ago

"Your Movement?" It's everybody's movement! Yours included! "Entitled brats?" Hardly, save your berating for those who truly deserve it.

[-] 2 points by HarryCrew07 (433) 3 years ago

Unfortunately, a large portion of the world is currently "dirty and derelict." Part of this movement is to make those "dirty and derelict" be present in the face of everyone who is comfortable. We must make ourselves uncomfortable with the world system we have created in order for it to change. And the whole "greed by nature" thing is useless. Since when have humans been about doing what nature does? If humans always followed nature than certainly more of us would be "dirty and derelict."

[-] 0 points by Ubuntu (34) from Brooklyn, NY 3 years ago

There is nothing but nature on earth. Nature created us, we are natural , we have no choice about this. We can not do anything against nature but we can create an environment uninhabitable for our species. We may kill ourselves but nature will continue.

[-] 0 points by HarryCrew07 (433) 3 years ago

I sure hope so :)

[-] -1 points by artistNJ (3) 3 years ago

Harry you make no sense your supposition is contradicted by your conclusion. Which is ironic because your movement is suffering from the same inherent problem.

[-] -2 points by HarryCrew07 (433) 3 years ago

Thank you! Contradictions abound.

[-] 2 points by Sly (19) from Brattleboro, VT 3 years ago

Our allies are the working people trying to get what they can out of life. Our enemies are the corporate giants that have seized control of the government through their wealth and now hold most Americans in fiscal captivity. They took trillions in bailouts and continue to foreclose homes and force college graduates into the streets. The banks will make fiscal slaves of us like they are trying to make slaves of the people of Iceland and Greece, holding us responsible for an economic crash they created. The Federal government answers to their interests alone. Our votes do not count.

It's time to fight for our future.

[-] 1 points by itsybitsycheater (38) from Center Valley, PA 3 years ago

The corporations have NO POWER without government complicity. Rail at the government and the politicians. Greece is failing because they nurtured an entitlement society, their socialist ways bred a dependent people. Dependent on GOVERNMENT. Live on your knees, or die standing. You want MORE government redistribution of wealth? That's absurd. Then we will have the 99% begging at the feet of government, while the 1% of government rulers pick out your underwear in the morning while yanking your chain to make you stand to attention.

[-] 1 points by Sly (19) from Brattleboro, VT 3 years ago

Where did I say I wanted socialism?

I said I want a government that represents the common man, not the people with the most money, most of which was ill-gotten as they used their influence to change the laws to protect their risky activities then changed them again to cover their asses at the expense of the people they cheated.

[-] 2 points by itsybitsycheater (38) from Center Valley, PA 3 years ago

And I said the people with the most money would have no power without government complicity. You're barking up the wrong tree. You need to be at the White House protesting. Just because someone offers you a sweet deal, doesn't mean you have to take it at the expense of your constituents. The government is to blame. Because someone is rich, that doesn't make you poorer. There isn't a finite amount of wealth that has to be "distributed" evenly to the people. The problem is our representatives are legislating laws for the rich, and it's wrong when they do it most of the time, but many, many rich people who benefit from government actually contribute to society and the poor. You're all messed up in your thinking. You don't understand free markets or how they make America the best country in the world where anyone can make it. You've swallowed the socialist lies.

[-] 1 points by Sly (19) from Brattleboro, VT 3 years ago

Except the protest is not meant to petition the government OR Wall Street. The protest is meant to petition the common man. We're saying, look, when the market does well, the profits go to the private sector. When the market does poorly, the losses are charged to the public. That is a rigged system. A broken system. We want you to wake up and stop going a long with the system. We need to create a new one. Because the 1% (being the corrupt banks, traders, and politicians on their leashes) are not going to do anything to change a system that benefits them so well.

[-] 0 points by artistNJ (3) 3 years ago

Sly your people have done the hard part, you've gotten the world to notice. But unfortunately your allies are not working people. working people if given the choice would not like you to clog up traffic or stop the subways from working. Working people who live around your tent cities do not appreciate your stream of urine running along the curbs of Zuccotti Park. and while some were in support of your original flower power type movement because it harkened back to their youth, they now feel you are an eyesore that smells and is lowering there already suffering property values. You are losing ground at this point. If you don't focus yourselves into a cohesive message soon you will loose the respect of the few supporters you have. Go after the fed, bring charges, sue them. Have a legitimate gripe that you can verbalize. There must be a creative lawyer out there who wants the spotlight. Winter will be here soon and it will be the figurative winter of your movement if you don't do something soon, other than seeing how many people you can piss off.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 3 years ago

Movies being made or politicians coming to town or other things (construction) also block traffic..... but I deal with it and find alternative routes.

[-] 1 points by itsybitsycheater (38) from Center Valley, PA 3 years ago

Movies and actors contribute revenue to the city. Nasty, dirty, noisy, parasite infested OWS protesters COST the city money. TAX money from it's citizens. You're a complete idiot.

[-] -1 points by Sly (19) from Brattleboro, VT 3 years ago

The intention of the action day is NOT to shut down the subway. They're staging protests at the subways to spread the message, but not to shut them down.

[-] -3 points by pepki (-13) 3 years ago

Everyone I know who is a working person, including myself, stands behind all the Occupy movements here in the US and around the world. Only a fool would not stand behind the greatest revolution ever in the history of civilization. There has never been a global revolution like this in history, not this peaceful, not this equitable and not this beautiful and noble. (Except maybe for Gandhi's) Tens of thousands every day join the movement both in spirit and physically. Every day a woman or man loses their job, or sees their child saddled with a college mortgage, or can't get health insurance, or buries their son/daughter killed in an oil war, a new member of the Occupy movement is created. Only the very greedy, very shallow or very ignorant remain outside of it and disdainful. Just as Marie Antoinette disdained "let them eat cake", these few fail to enjoy the refreshing inspiration of a movement that has no leader, but has a strong voice that rings across the globe with truth and honesty and inclusiveness. I admire these kids... I don't have their patience. This middle aged mom wants to punch you in the face. :)

[-] 3 points by jdnreha (85) 3 years ago

violent at the end much. I wish you spent this much work and energy in Washington and made a difference.

[-] 2 points by artistNJ (3) 3 years ago

patience is obviously not the only thing you lack.

[-] 1 points by itsybitsycheater (38) from Center Valley, PA 3 years ago

You are a puppet. MOST Americans are disgusted with you. Only a fool would fall in with a movement that accomplishes nothing, except to cost the struggling working man MORE money in taxes because of higher costs for security, and higher costs for cleaning because of the obscene FILTH you OWS protesters leave behind. Hasn't anyone ever told you that being obnoxious is generally a turn off? If your Utopian communist vision of what you want the world to be like had any merit, you wouldn't have to resort to "occupying" areas you don't own, and crapping on the privileges of everyone else who might want to actually enjoy the parks, sleep at night, and pass Wall Street without smelling your nasty BO and feces. You are really nasty. >shudders<...... "refreshing inspiration"? Maybe if you're dog that likes to eat cat shit out of a litter box. Give me a break.

[-] 1 points by imstillhere (6) 3 years ago

Only the very greedy, very shallow or very ignorant remain outside of it and disdainful.

Nice job laying the groundwork to reject present and future dissent. You truly are the 99%.

[-] -1 points by velveeta (230) 3 years ago

By shutting down mass transit, the "people's" transit? Why not occupy the waiting lounge for the private jets at the airport? Thos people don't even go through irport security. Occupying the subway and making the "five boroughs" into an enemy tank is really lame. The protesters are obviously not native New Yorkers.

[-] 1 points by Sly (19) from Brattleboro, VT 3 years ago

As I understand it, the call is to shut down Wall Street, not the subway. The follow up is a march to bring as many New Yorkers out onto the streets to demonstrate that the movement is America, not a hundred hippies.

[-] 0 points by velveeta (230) 3 years ago

why is one of the enemy tanks labeled "the five boroughs"?

[-] 0 points by Sly (19) from Brattleboro, VT 3 years ago

I'd deduce from the 3.00pm time on the Five Boroughs Tank that they intend to march around the Five Boroughs at 3.00pm.

[-] -2 points by pepki (-13) 3 years ago

This NY suburb mom and her friends are right behind you guys. We'll be there taking a break from our cozy homes to stand with you and fight for all of us and our freedoms. Tea baggers need not apply.

[-] 1 points by itsybitsycheater (38) from Center Valley, PA 3 years ago

So, only Fleabaggers can apply? Tell me, is it true one has to be infested with head lice, body lice, or be able to squat on the sidewalk and shit to join you at OWS?

[-] 1 points by sfmadman (9) 3 years ago

Of course Iraq and Afghanistan doesn't like it. But Wall Street is profiting from that, too, otherwise we wouldn't be there. And no, capitalism is NOT the essence of freedom, because it really only grants a very small number of people freedom while enslaving the majority.

[-] 1 points by Switch (0) 3 years ago

Dictators and politicians are hardworking people as well. What distinguishes the power of an individual working within the government from an individual whose great wealth allows them to effectively govern the government? Yes the federal rules need to change, but it seems that elected offices increasingly answer to the people only in name. I think you're confusing your own perception of the movement with their image as they appear to others. I've seen pictures of people in business suits, polos, khakis, and jeans, in other words, people just like me. The message is quite clear, wealth (which represents power) is concentrated in the hands of too few. They do not need to write a cohesive statement to be picked apart by lawyers (indeed there have been legal attempts at reform that have been tied up in bureaucracy and nitpicking). We have hired politicians to do that. They just need not to move until those that claim to represent them do their job.

[-] 1 points by itsybitsycheater (38) from Center Valley, PA 3 years ago

How do you propose to remedy the inequities? Hmmm? How do you plan on correcting the "great financial divide"? What does OWS have as a plan to ensure "social justice"? How in the hell is occupying anything going to change it? Let me know. I won't be holding my breath.

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[-] -1 points by musashiz (16) 3 years ago

my friend you have a lot of learning to do.

[-] 2 points by artistNJ (3) 3 years ago

Wow that's enlightening. My friend I am the everyman. What's more I am the everyman with a soft spot for humanity. If you ain't getting through to me your sunk.

[-] -2 points by musashiz (16) 3 years ago

you are the only one that can get through to you. im not here to teach you of your arrogance just inform you of how wrong you are if you have the open mind to hear it

[-] 2 points by artistNJ (3) 3 years ago

I guess your really not here to teach anyone anything except your pissed off that a few have a lot. I got news for you hobo, those people are smart and driven and that's how they got there. I have an open mind and I'd like to see change at a federal level. But in reality all you will end up proving is that twenty somethings can hang out in a park and live off the goodwill of WORKING people...until the working people get tired of it and kick your unwashed filthy rectums from the ground that illegally occupy. Businesses are suffering in that area and your neighbors are protesting protesters. Is this a success?

[-] 0 points by musashiz (16) 3 years ago

No anger here, just a whole lot of will for my fellow earthlings to see the truth. Im sensing some anger from you my friend. wow, thats great brother, id like to see change at the federal level too but that wont happen unless we get to the root of the problem, e.g. the fact that corporations essentially run our government. I applaud those in which the system works for them. If you go out on the street and talk to everyday people who dont have enough money to let alone own a computer. their story is not based on feeling entitled as you may claim. their stories are about layoffs, not able to find jobs after school as promised, and foreclosures. youve heard about those things no doubt? brother, have you heard of the right to assemble? it is in the constitution. we the poeple find it hard to follow laws of a government that is no longer of the people. illegal or not we will make our voices heard because it it our duty as given to us by the declaration of independence "But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."

If you actually were to go down to an occupation and get out from behind the computer, you would see most of them have jobs, and apartments. This is an idea that many have adopted since the media has projected it. Brother I would advise you to go to an occupation, talk to some people, express yourself in real life as opposed to virtually expressing yourself and let me know if you feel the same.

[-] 0 points by MrDman (-57) 3 years ago

Well said....:) Clueless they are

[-] 0 points by HarryCrew07 (433) 3 years ago

Anyone have another way to view the poster? For some reason whenever I click on the link my computer server resets.

Thanks!

[-] -1 points by lecorsaire (25) 3 years ago

If they really try to shut down or interfere with business on Wall Street, they will all just be arrested. This is the wrong move after seeing what happened with the raid. They are asking for the whole movement to be banned and shutdown for good. You can cry 1st Amendment violations all you want, but that's what will happen and you all know it.

[-] -1 points by ikonski142 (0) from Aurora, CO 3 years ago

red+black=HUELGA!!.........solidarity from colorado.......................142

[-] -1 points by sorospuppets (-2) 3 years ago

Resist Austerity? Pls explain

[-] -1 points by sorospuppets (-2) 3 years ago

Resist Austerity??? What does that mean?

[-] -1 points by redjeffery (-2) 3 years ago

To all counterrevolutionary haters who have posted here complaining about Bolshevik styles...piss off already. You hate truly effective propaganda because you are reactionary trolls. The poster reflects our moment. Make no mistake...this is an ANTICAPITALIST insurrection. We make no demands because we will not be limited to demobilizing demands...we want total OVERTHROW...and won't stop until we have it.

[-] 1 points by itsybitsycheater (38) from Center Valley, PA 3 years ago

How succinct. And after you overthrow everything? What then Sherlock?

[-] -1 points by freeusa (14) 3 years ago

Look, raising awareness is a good idea but not by killing the life of people who has the job. Causing the subway to stop running is a dumbness idea I have seen from OWS. Those of you who don't have a job it is not the fault of those who have a job, why punish us when you want to raise awareness, by the way if those of us who have a job and donate to OWS, after we all lost our jobs then who is going to pay for the movement? DUMB! Do not kill the goose and get the egg!

[-] -1 points by laurensierra (24) 3 years ago

Thank you ALL who are brave enough to Occupy and keep this movement going. Awesome - mass direct action for N17! Will distribute!

Occupying in solidarity in California. Long live Occupy!

[-] -1 points by foundingbaby (15) 3 years ago

I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night, Alive as you or me Says I, "But Joe, you're ten years dead," "I never died," says he. "I never died," says he.

"In Salt Lake, Joe," says I to him, Him standing by my bed, "They framed you on a murder charge," Says Joe, "But I ain't dead," Says Joe, "But I ain't dead."

"The copper bosses killed you, Joe, They shot you, Joe," says I. "Takes more than guns to kill a man," Says Joe, "I didn't die," Says Joe, "I didn't die."

And standing there as big as life And smiling with his eyes Says Joe, "What they forgot to kill Went on to organize, Went on to organize."

"Joe Hill ain't dead," he says to me, "Joe Hill ain't never died. Where working men are out on strike Joe Hill is at their side, Joe Hill is at their side."

From San Diego up to Maine, In every mine and mill - Where working men defend their rights It's there you'll find Joe Hill. It's there you'll find Joe Hill.

I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night, Alive as you or me Says I, "But Joe, you're ten years dead", "I never died," says he. "I never died," says he.

[-] -1 points by ALeftLibertarian (-1) 3 years ago

This is great. Though this will be met with extreme police and rightist opposition, it's about time we use anarchist methods like Direct Action to further spread our cause. Occupy the World and may humanity break free from its rulers.

[-] -1 points by shoesandtables (20) 3 years ago

Glad the protest is still ongoing.

[-] -1 points by MrDman (-57) 3 years ago

I have often wondered why it is that Conservatives are called the "right" and Liberals are called the "left."

By chance I stumbled upon this verse in the Bible:"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." Ecclesiastes 10:2 (NIV) Thus sayeth the Lord. Amen.

Can't get any simpler than that.

[-] 0 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 3 years ago

And the right, who claim to uphold the teachings of Jesus, do nothing but the opposite. Does the Bible also cover hypocrisy?

[-] -1 points by MrDman (-57) 3 years ago

Hi baby....This is your friend LoneStar...LOL....I see your mouth is still running...

[-] 1 points by USCitizenVoter (720) 3 years ago

Troll alert it's the MrDman again

[-] -1 points by MrDman (-57) 3 years ago

I beg your pardon....I don't live under a bridge (Or a tent)...Unlike some of you idiots..

[-] -1 points by Dio1313 (69) 3 years ago

Nice to see you back buddy!

[-] -1 points by titus (13) 3 years ago

It is interesting to note that ALL critical comments are addressed vitriolically and derogatorily towards the messengers but would not touch with the barge pole THE MESSAGE. It is a well worn out technique to shift the spotlight. Lets assume for a minute that all (patriots) of OWS disappear the next day. Would you see full employment, fraud on wall street a thing of the past, political corruption gone, wars of plunder ending, TSA sexual abuse stopped and last but not least, the grand theft of the millennium perpetrated by the "federal" reserve given a RIP? WELL? WOULD YOU???

[-] -1 points by ronimacarroni (1089) 3 years ago

This is stupid.

You guys already tried this on the BART protests and everyone ended up

hating you for not allowing people to go to work so they can pay their bills.

[Removed]

[-] -1 points by Zealwriter (5) 3 years ago

I am very impressed with the movement that has sprung now globally regarding those who insist on occupying asking for a fair share. Whereas I am impressed by the initial response to the knowledge of having been cattle all these years and now desiring to be included in living, I challenge with a question "what is your next move?" A gathering or a march alone without a contingency plan is "IMPOTENT". Certain ethnic groups look for equal inclusion and find solace in mouthpieces like Al and Jesse to bolster their cause with words but absent of action ignoring the roots of their own history which affected change that they benefit from today which was "the boycott".

Sure, there are many people charged up at the moment but without steering them in a direction of action once after the whole world has come out to occupy it will certainly fizzle from what began an undaunted mission of ground troops.

Truly, truly comrades, the ground is fully laid out and the question now is how to erect the walls? While there is protest in the streets still the employers who are the 1% have their oxen to plow their fields or manpower to drive their riches and why should they consider giving the 99% any more than they have? After all, what are they going to do, Quit? Doubtless! The thing that Big Industry has capitalized on is the masses being unorganized! NO, I'm not talk about gathering as a organized bargaining unit (Unions), No; what I'm submitting to the "Occupy" movement is PHASE TWO and "Boycott the MACHINE" while, at the moment, having need to be attached to it.

Take the funds that your current employer pays you and collectively invest in a home based business. Find a reputable Network Marketing Business and use your massive network to generate wealth that you would never get from a raise while working as "Cattle" for your current herdsman. Your employer [herdsman] hopes that you remain asleep and not come to recognize the economy that exist within you in order for them to remain in control over it. This is the opportunity that you have been waiting for. This is the dream that you have dreamed to be financially free and independent. The only thing standing in your way is your fear of the unknown and your comfort on the pastures. The path I follow is in my website. The path you search out and find is up to you. In order to go to a level beyond talks and demonstrations is language that those you protest against understand and respect. This is the model that Robert Kiyosaki calls the "Business of the 21st Century" (look it up on Youtube). My name is Charles Burns and I AM MONA-V-IE! [for Vendetta]

[-] -1 points by IHearYourPointBut (-1) 3 years ago

Occupying the subways at 3 pm is a bad time. The kids are getting out of school. Teenagers with lots of energy and younger kids who must travel alone - their families will be worried about them if things get out of hand. Think about changing to the weekend. You will get your point across without worrying so many families.

[-] -1 points by mio (5) 3 years ago

I saw this real quick on the front page Occupy Wall Street Agenda time table "This is What Democracy Looks Like" Uh you guys... for us in the US of A we are a Republic not Democracy it's not even written in the Constitution once. What am I missing here?

[-] -1 points by jph (2652) 3 years ago

a brain perhaps? Why would the people support proxy representatives in a corrupted corporate system of oppression.

[-] 0 points by mio (5) 3 years ago

Yup your definitely a supporter of this false hood called a democracy in a country that we are not a part of. Insults don't benefit anything but to continue to divide. A proxy representation in the belief of a democratic system that has zero role in our country to begin with will not work, nor has it worked in history period.

You live in a republic and only fooling yourselves, there's no substance other then defiance to authority and demands, hurting legitimate businesses by some commentators and actions at OWS is only hurting itself (I know, I was at several of them), there's no real pressure on these bad people, no resolution whatsoever, multiple sides united sure but where's it going? So far nowhere and don't start insults that's very immature. Again, Capitalism isn't the problem it is the federal reserve, federal government and other government owned buildings (like courts), and the lobbyists like AIPAC that's an absolute fact. If you want democratic system go to another country you won't find it here ever unless we fully turn into a fascism country.

[-] 0 points by jph (2652) 3 years ago

Why do you defend and support corporatism? Fascism is not a popular position and yet you take it up with gusto. Don't even try this BS where you flip the script and democracy, in some twisted little corner of you obviously substandard mind, is equated with fascism. You know that is utter crap, yet this is all you have? Leave the country if we don't like corporate bankster top down wealth rule? No, I don't think so, America is a democratic land, and no amount of you clinging to lame 200 year old constitutional misrepresenting is going to change that.

Support people not wealth. Democracy not corporate fascism!

[-] 1 points by mio (5) 3 years ago

Me support fascism? Let go of your anger for it clouds your thinking if you had seriously read what I have wrote you would not reply to me about Fascism. What is your stance on the Federal Reserve? They're the lead gangster of the banks why doesn't OWS protest their building? Only Houston, TX has done it. They and the lobbyists keep this corruption going.

This line again of America being a democratic land? Where does it say this? Certainly not in the Constitution, it must be some document that's only passed by word of mouth. Did public education teach such a thing? Perhaps a corrupt college did? No clue, anyways democracy eventually becomes socialism and it will NEVER work it's proven history this is a fact. I know for certain your a socialist by your rhetoric. Woe to those of us in the republic.

I support the people, I support OWS those who are peaceful, what I do not support are people like yourself spewing insinuated insults with misleading positions and seemingly has no real clue of who are the real targets that's causing our countries peoples with grief.

[-] -1 points by paycloserattention (-7) 3 years ago

Do you vote? Did you vote last week in the elections? Voting is one of our ways of making changes. Peacefully. If you don't like the way our elected officers are acting.... vote them out.

If you don't vote... don't complain.

[-] 0 points by mio (5) 3 years ago

This is always a solution however the power of the people reserved to us hasn't put any real pressure on these politicians even at the local level. If we cannot even pressure them at our local cities how can we pressure at the federal level? We need these people to be educated and use their rightful power of the Constitution to change things,the power is in our hands the few of us need the help of the many.

[-] 0 points by me2 (534) 3 years ago

I agree with this, however I was very dissatisfied with the choices available to me on the ballot and had not identified any viable write in candidates. Reminded me of an old Simon & Garfunkel tune...

[-] -1 points by dotsend66 (43) 3 years ago

Vote,vote,vote!!!

[-] -1 points by wolf (17) 3 years ago

Well, in this day I will support policemen by any means

[-] -1 points by paycloserattention (-7) 3 years ago

If you are really down on the corporate world... throw away your cell phones, laptops, ipods, ipads... they are all made in CHINA by the very corporations you hate...quit using/doing anything associated with any corporation.
Talk the talk? Then walk the walk.

And learn to spell.. November.

[-] 1 points by musashiz (16) 3 years ago

extremist actions leads to nothing. everything in moderation. thats like telling everyone who hats gas prices to stop putting gas in their car which is too extreme. the answer is drive less, a balanced approach.

we arent writing an essay here just expressing thoughts people can spell things however they would like.

[-] 1 points by JProffitt71 (222) from Colorado Springs, CO 3 years ago

Protesting against crony capitalism is not equivalent to protesting capitalism.

Pay closer attention.

[-] 0 points by paycloserattention (-7) 3 years ago

If you talk the talk... then walk the walk. I think you are a bit misguided.

Pay closer attention.

[-] -1 points by velveeta (230) 3 years ago

I'm looking at the poster really closely for awhile now. "Foley Square" and the "Five Boroughs" are portrayed as enemy tanks on par with "Wall Street". It is obvious the people who decided to mess up the subway for an afternoon and who made this poster aren't native New Yorkers.

[-] 1 points by itsybitsycheater (38) from Center Valley, PA 3 years ago

Hmmmm...........ya think?

[-] 0 points by Bambi (359) 3 years ago

AGREE! and as I said in another post.......one does not want to anger NYC commuters. OMG can you imagine????????

[-] -1 points by angelofmercy (225) 3 years ago

Occupy the subway? How is that helping the 99% you will be stopping them from getting to and from work . Which may lead them to loose their job , which feeds them and their family. The movement has official become stupid.

[-] 1 points by KeepOregonGreen (-6) 3 years ago

Totally agree. They are shooting their own feet off! Now they are planning on stopping the banks from doing business as usual. How are those who live paycheck to paycheck supposed to get TO THE BANK to cash their checks. Do they actually think the 1% even know where the banks are? Hello, OWS?????? Stop, regroup, and RETHINK!

[-] 1 points by Archaevist (15) 3 years ago

Yeah, what kind of GA agreed to this stupid plan?

[-] 0 points by richardweeks (-7) 3 years ago

You are right. Disrupting the subway is the surest way to turn off the 99%, and make them hate this movement.

[-] -1 points by tsdevi (307) 3 years ago

LQQK, tens of millions of people are unemployed or underemployed. Who is going to fix the problem if awareness if not raised? Who is going to stand up for all people and demand that employment should not be exploitative and absent the Democratic process and the necessary protections? Too many people are living in precarious times and this is not the time to pretend that nothing is gravely wrong. It is time for people to stick together because unless we do, things will only degenerate more.

[-] 3 points by chunkylover (27) 3 years ago

If you guys steal the value of the $2.50 I pay to get me where I'm going in an approximate pre-determined time, by slowing down or stopping the subway. If you steal that from me, which I have earned through my labor, and with it my time. If you do that, I will put a serious blue-collar ass-whipping on whichever of you are unfortunate enough to have been close to me.

[-] 0 points by tsdevi (307) 3 years ago

What is your line of work, mr. chunkylover? So you do not identify one iota with the cause of OWS? I mean, you do not have any grievances with how things are run and what is going on?

[-] 1 points by chunkylover (27) 3 years ago

The system has major problems ts devi, both parties are pretty much in awe of WS, I'll give you that. OWS is not the answer. Tsarist Russia was pretty messed up, the Bolsheviks were 100 times worse. You can tell me that OWS is not about Bolshevism or Maoism, but sorry, I'm not blind, in graphic presentation, sloganeering, tactics, etc... it's very apparent that this is a movement stuck in the utopian ideologies of the past.

[-] 1 points by richardweeks (-7) 3 years ago

you are right, ows is not the answer. it's a bunch of economic illiterates whining about rich people.

[-] 1 points by mowakumba (2) 3 years ago

lol.

[-] 0 points by tsdevi (307) 3 years ago

Don't you think that this might simply be because of a lack of imagination? If you got involved, then your voice would be heard and that is the essence of OWS. When you refer to the Bolshevik "Revolution," it reminds me of a great Russian history course I took, where you read about the naivete of the peasants and their lack of comprehension of what was in store for them...but people's follies are not simply about party affiliation, its about emotions and identities and far less quantifiable and rational things. Soviet history would have been drastically different if a power monger like Stalin were not allowed to be in power. The point is that in this country, we are expected to utilize our Democratic principles to make government accountable to the people. You made me think about the subway demonstration and it might not be the best laid plan...so go down and tell them! I can't, as I live in TX.

[-] -2 points by sovichel (-3) 3 years ago

Utopian ideologies of the past? The only ideology OWS have is consensus decision making and pursuit of change. And if you think Capitalism as it is now is an ideology that takes mankind in the future and beyond, I would suggest you a bit of thinking

[-] 1 points by Archaevist (15) 3 years ago

I've been there. The utopian ideology is so thick there one can hardly breathe.

[-] 2 points by bravo91 (12) 3 years ago

"It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change" -CD

[-] 1 points by itsybitsycheater (38) from Center Valley, PA 3 years ago

Exactly. That's why the OWS protesters will burn their own cause to the ground. Stupidity. Ignorance about who their puppet masters are. It's a sight to behold. It really is.

[-] 0 points by DonHawkins (37) 3 years ago

bravo good one write on my blog on that thanks...http://knowledge321.wordpress.com/

[-] -1 points by tsdevi (307) 3 years ago

I am glad that you said this, I gather that you are likening the laws of nature to the laws of man. The conflation of the two is a mistake, as the laws of nature are not influenced by man, but the laws of man are created by them, and can be changed. Natural evolution is not equal to social evolution, as with the former, evolution does not mean "progress," but simply, adaptation.

[-] 0 points by mowakumba (2) 3 years ago

I still don't get it...... what u gonna do when your unemployment check runs out??

[-] -1 points by tsdevi (307) 3 years ago

I don't receive an unemployment check. Your question is limited. There are too many people living a poor quality of life all over the world. This is not sustainable and it never has been in human history. Read, watch PBS and less Fox News and open your eyes and empower yourself. What would you do if you did not have money? It happens to a lot of people.

[-] 1 points by itsybitsycheater (38) from Center Valley, PA 3 years ago

You're statements are the complete expression of an incomplete intellect.

[-] 1 points by itsybitsycheater (38) from Center Valley, PA 3 years ago

Do you honestly think you have to "raise awareness" that our economy is in the tank, the bankers are crooks, the politicians are crooks (including OBAMA) or people won't get it? Ha ha ha ha ha ha!!! Even dogs don't shit where they sleep. Y'all are protesting the wrong people, at the wrong place. Wall Street would be neutered without GOVERNMENT complicity, starting with the White House.

[-] 0 points by freeusa (14) 3 years ago

Look, raising awareness is a good idea but not by killing the life of people who has the job. Causing the subway to stop running is a dumbness idea I have seen from OWS. Those of you who don't have a job it is not the fault of those who have a job, why punish us when you want to raise awareness, by the way if those of us who have a job and donate to OWS, after we all lost our jobs then who is going to pay for the movement? DUMB! Do not kill the goose and get the egg!

[-] 0 points by tsdevi (307) 3 years ago

Okay, I am not in NYC, so I have little power to effect the situation. If you do, then chime in. Remember that high levels of unemployment are not good for the employed, as it only weakens your power, right?

[-] -2 points by Ubuntu (34) from Brooklyn, NY 3 years ago

If your boss fires you for not being on time when there is a subway system shutdown then you need a job with a more understanding boss. Besides allot of bosses, supervisors, managers, etc. ride the subway so whose to say they will make it to work themselves.

[-] 1 points by itsybitsycheater (38) from Center Valley, PA 3 years ago

Maybe they don't want to get shorted on those hours, ya think? How dense can you people be?

[-] 1 points by Ubuntu (34) from Brooklyn, NY 3 years ago

Look troll you posted the same comment how many times? You have no idea wnat kind of business I run and what my ethics and philosophy is about running it. I hire friends and I intend to raise my friends along with myself as I raise up in the world. Who ever wishes to hop onto my thing and has the skill and ethics can benefit. I am not out to make a killing off of my employees I am hoping they will be able to better themselves as I better myself and I know with in my circle there are others who would do the same for me if I were in the same position as my employees. I dont wish to delve into my personal business but I can tell you nobody is shorted on jack at my business. They get paid what is fair based upon the rates I charge.

[-] 0 points by freeusa (14) 3 years ago

True my boss is going to fire me due to the subway system shutdown, do you know why? Because he is the 1%, we are up against of, so he is going to fire me and anyone who is part of OWS movement.

Then how am I going to Pay for expenses, and my rent? Go waiting on line for a hand our? Better yet OWS is going to paid for it.

By the way getting in to the subway is $2.25 who is going to pay for it? I tell you who the 1% which is your boss or my boss OK. Wake the XXXX UP

[-] 0 points by freeusa (14) 3 years ago

so you think stopping the train is going to change my idiot boss give ma better pay? Wake up people!!! I need to get paid if I am ever going to donate to this movement, thank myself i was not stupid enough to donate to bunch of idiot OWS, since they might cost my job after all.

[-] -1 points by Ubuntu (34) from Brooklyn, NY 3 years ago

Your boss will realize a protest is going on. There was an MTA strike just a couple years ago and many trains were shutdown last winter bosses can understand that. If they don't, well, all I can say is you should never compromise your life for money. You should work in an environment where you are respected and that is the type of work environment we are fighting for. There is no rightful reason you should be fired because the trains shut down, so just relax. We are working on a better world.

[-] 1 points by itsybitsycheater (38) from Center Valley, PA 3 years ago

Again, Maybe they don't want to get shorted on those hours, ya think? Maybe the boss will think twice about keeping his business in a place where COMMERCE is blocked and his clients can't be taken care of. HOW can you OWS people be so dense?

[-] 0 points by freeusa (14) 3 years ago

are you sure? my boss don't fire me, but my boss move to another town, then job is lost, who can said what you doing now is going to change the way my boss think, are you the all mighty one? please wake up, try to get in to the subway with out paying on Thursday, try to go have a hot dog at a hot dog stand for free, Do you think when you become a boss you will pay every one equal even if they can not do the work? or you will now go to street and hand every one a free token because you just make a few extra dollars?(cause you don't want to be reach you just want to have enough) Please come on for real once. What is enough??? By the way did the MTA strike did any good to us at NYC? NO they only raised the fair more and more.

[-] -1 points by Ubuntu (34) from Brooklyn, NY 3 years ago

I have my own business and I employ people. If they missed a day of work because the transportation system shut down it's not the end of the world. I would invite them to come back and work on friday, but most of my employees ride bikes, fortunately. Also if they didn't I would pay for them to take a car service or cab as long as they provided me with a receipt. Well even if they didn't I would estimate how much it costed for them to get to work and provide them with that. I respect and value my employees and I appreciate if they have made an uneccessary trek to work. My business can not work without them and they do a good job. I would need them on friday in order to keep my business operating.

The MTA strike served it's purpose for the MTA workers. Unlike the Occupy movement it was not intended to benefit us, non MTA employed people, directly. They needed to be paid fairly. I can understand that because they do actually work hard. Anyway my point was there are often times when the MTA shuts down and you know we still live on and most people keep their daily grind.

[-] 1 points by itsybitsycheater (38) from Center Valley, PA 3 years ago

What if your business was taken over by OWS protesters? What if you had an eatery near Zuccotti Park, and you lost customers because of the stench, and inaccessibility due to OWS protesters blocking sidewalks? What if many people didn't even bother to get near your business because of the hassle the OWS protesters caused? What if your employees had to be laid off because of the lack of business, courtesy of the OWS protesters? It's all good if it doesn't effect YOUR business, huh?

[-] 0 points by freeusa (14) 3 years ago

Good Boss! Why don't you give them a month with pay and have them stay home or go support the OWS movement? You are a business owner? then you must have a lot of chance to deal with the banking a.... so let's turn them over by protesting and you think the next bank is not going to be an a...? as you have said miss a day or two of work due to subway shutdown but this circus has gone long enough it is time go back to the voting table and work on a solution instead of creating more issues.

By the way don't get me wrong, I do support the movement but I am not against the wall street people, I think it is the house needs a real cleanup and to do that we need to use our voting power not the street power.

[-] -1 points by Ubuntu (34) from Brooklyn, NY 3 years ago

I can only do what I can afford. I'm not a Wall St. CEO. I just run a small business, very small, but I do what I can, because for me working for money is not everything.

[-] 1 points by itsybitsycheater (38) from Center Valley, PA 3 years ago

Then give your business to the OWS protesters!! It's a small business, you don't make much money, maybe the great OWS people can turn it around for you!

[-] -1 points by freeusa (14) 3 years ago

So go against the CEO is not the solution here, the issues is people who runs the office. Someday your company will expand and you'll need investors then you become the CEO, how would you feel after you seen this movement? we all struggle and because of wall street issues it had cause my job too, but I don't blame, I keep on going and waiting for the election to come so I can make my choice again. I do support OWS and the message has been heard so enough is enough. Let's replace those in the office that does not serve the 90% by voting them out. the money man is not at fault here-it is greediness, to change it only through education. "This is the reflection of some of the CEO at wall street"

[-] -1 points by jph (2652) 3 years ago

Who made you the 'official'?

[-] -2 points by Dio1313 (69) 3 years ago

Just trying to point out that this is just another one of your stupid ideas. Might do your cause some good to listen.

[-] -1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 3 years ago

Listen to who.... you?

[-] 0 points by Dio1313 (69) 3 years ago

The page format is pretty simple. If you reply to a comment your reply appears below and indented in from the comment you are replying to. If you trace that up then even you should be able to see that we are discussing the comment made by (angelofmercy). You guys should listen to anyone who tells you that disrupting transportation, or preventing people from making it to work or school is a bad idea. This will only make people hate you guys more than they already do.

[-] 0 points by jph (2652) 3 years ago

Shut the whole thing down,. it is killing the planet and treating people like slaves. Why participate in a death cult?

[-] -2 points by sparatacus99x (-16) from Bloomfield, NJ 3 years ago

No one will lose their job if the subway is shut down, think up something clever or insightful if you must criticize.

[-] 2 points by Gileos (309) 3 years ago

Actually he has a good and valid point. I dont expect you to understand though after seeing your other posts.

[-] -1 points by sparatacus99x (-16) from Bloomfield, NJ 3 years ago

Enlighten me, Mass transit in NYC has been shut down on numerous other occasions. I nor anyone else lost their job because of it. Loss of one days wages is not going to make anyone go hungry and it could help them in the long run. People of the World Unite!!!

[-] 1 points by Gileos (309) 3 years ago

Are tou saying youd only shut ot down for a day? Sounds like a cry for attention

[-] 0 points by velveeta (230) 3 years ago

The cost to the MTA and city resulting from a shutdown will be passed on to the riders. I don't think shutting down the subway is a meaningful way to protest greed and corruption on Wall Street. Why not create a human chain in front of the NYSE building? Or camp out on the front lawns of the members of the "super committee"?

[-] 1 points by Dio1313 (69) 3 years ago

They might not lose their jobs, but they surely will not be in favor of you. You guys really need to start thinking things through. You will not gain support by causing people problems as they try to get to work or school. Is that clever or insightful enough for you?

[-] 0 points by me2 (534) 3 years ago

A lot of kids use the subway system to get to & from school, and 3 PM is prime time for their commute.

[-] -1 points by Dio1313 (69) 3 years ago

Exactly, one of the many reasons that this is a completely stupid idea.

[-] -3 points by sparatacus99x (-16) from Bloomfield, NJ 3 years ago

A Revolution, although not convenient, is necessary.

[-] 1 points by Dio1313 (69) 3 years ago

The more people you piss off the more people are going to want you gone. You guys have absolutely no intelligent thought process.

[Removed]

[-] -1 points by sparatacus99x (-16) from Bloomfield, NJ 3 years ago

fix the typo, Novemeber needs to be November. We are not the Tea Party. :)

[-] 1 points by itsybitsycheater (38) from Center Valley, PA 3 years ago

Yea, the Tea Party would have spelled it correctly.

[-] 1 points by sparatacus99x (-16) from Bloomfield, NJ 3 years ago

Doubt it, saw so many grammar and spelling errors on their protest signs that I felt embarrassed for them.

[-] 0 points by Gileos (309) 3 years ago

No, you are definatly not anything close and you never ever will be.

[-] 0 points by sparatacus99x (-16) from Bloomfield, NJ 3 years ago

Thank you, you made my day!!

[-] 0 points by Gileos (309) 3 years ago

They understand that change does not need to happen in the street. While you jump on any reason to get in the street. It was not a compliment. You have made your misery, enjoy.

[-] 1 points by sparatacus99x (-16) from Bloomfield, NJ 3 years ago

where is change going to happen? At the ballot box? LOL

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 3 years ago

Yep. Did you NOT notice that last week, those who went to the ballot box in their areas voted down many bullshit bills that the right wing was trying to pass?

[-] 0 points by paycloserattention (-7) 3 years ago

Change will happen at the ballot box IF YOU VOTE.
If you can get thousands to stand in the street then get those thousands to vote for who will make the changes you want to see. Then vote.

[-] 0 points by sparatacus99x (-16) from Bloomfield, NJ 3 years ago

maybe in another world, in this one that avenue has already been exhausted.

[-] 1 points by paycloserattention (-7) 3 years ago

really? tell me about when you organized thousands to vote? I have done that and we voted out the representative we disliked and voted in our person.

[-] -1 points by Untiedshoes (-3) 3 years ago

I understand your sentiment paycloseattention, but the political system is just as corrupt as wall street. No one is honest or transparent anymore.

Let's take my local government for example. I live in a medium-sized town, which also has a 'tourist' economy. THE CORPORATIONS put all their box stores in the uptown area, leaving the downtown Main Street a ghost town. Crime and homelessness in that area has gone up. Our Supervisor has spent millions of OUR TAX DOLLARS on petty projects that have not helped downtown come back. This past election we had three candidates: one democratic who has previously been our supervisor (and failed miserably), a republican who was our current supervisor (also had his short comings), and an independent with a suspicious agenda. (a lot of catering to elderly living care, trying to win the older votes?) I read the debate notes, our current and previous supervisors sounded like bickering elementary school children. The democratic ex-supervisor even went as far as calling the other guy's propositions 'crap'. Does that sound like someone you want running your town?

I didn't vote. Why? Not because I am lazy, not because I don't care. I take great pride in my local community, the good and bad of my area. My reasoning: Honestly, voting has gotten to the point of saying "Ok, who's bad, worse and the worst?" and vote for the one who isn't going to screw us up as much. This doesn't negate the fact that these politicians are still gonna screw us up somehow.

It's like arguing "Ok, is this guy gonna waste 10 million in tax dollars, or 100 million on a project that will not help our community?"

THIS IS NOT WHAT DEMOCRACY IS SUPPOSE TO BE.

[-] 0 points by paycloserattention (-7) 3 years ago

Sorry untied shoes. you don't understand my sentiments. I think you tripped on one of your laces and hit your head. You are one of the ones that makes excuses instead of taking action. I didn't vote because my choices were bad, worse and the worst? Come on.
You can always run for office yourself.

[-] 0 points by Untiedshoes (-3) 3 years ago

What a cute little limerick. Going after my username=tactful. True, I could try to run for office, but I doubt they will accept me at my young age.

[-] 0 points by paycloserattention (-7) 3 years ago

You said you didn't vote but could have... then you are at least 18. You can run for many offices at the age of 18. A 16 year old recently was elected mayor of his town. You are never to young to become active in elections....or to make excuses why you can't ( as in your case) Tie your shoes. or if your young age is not so young.. we have had senators in their 90's!

[-] -1 points by Gileos (309) 3 years ago

You have to be retarded or not to see the change that has come from ellected officials. Not to mention how annoyingly obvious your talking points have become. No one can tell you anything, you want to rebel against something and thats all there is to it. When they go away youll find something else to latch onto. What a sad and meaningless existence.

[-] 0 points by BreadLandPeace (359) 3 years ago

Please don't use "retarded" as a pejorative.

[-] -1 points by ihateraking (-1) 3 years ago

November is spelled wrong! Hurry, before it's too late!

[-] -1 points by littlebiggygirl (26) from Hesperia, CA 3 years ago

what advice would you offer the Occupy protesters today? http://littlebiggy.org/4660547

[-] 1 points by USCitizenVoter (720) 3 years ago

LEGACY OF A GENERATION put the walfare of the next generation on a pedestal before you think about yourself. Teach our children to become leaders and caretakers of the planet. Do not sacrifice the next generation to the corruption of the planet.

[-] 1 points by Gileos (309) 3 years ago

Id say you were given the same chances as everyone else and your being used.

[-] -1 points by Thisisthetime (200) from Kahlotus, WA 3 years ago

More Power to Occupy Wall Street. Keep Shaking It up. Keep it Changing and bringing attention to the unacceptable imbalance between the 99% and the 1%. Fairness.

[-] -2 points by bobby (58) from Quincy, CA 3 years ago

To: Prime Minister Roseanne Barr [Green Tea] Prime Minister Gail Lightfoot [Libertarian] Prime Minister Charles Bruce Stewart [Green Libertarian] Secretary Jacob Covich [Catholic Trotskyist] Cc: All Voters and Non Voters From: Secretary James Ogle [Free Parliamentary] Subject: USP: Day to Day Updates 11/14/2011


http://www.usparliament.org/


  1. Mid-West Super-state Parliament http://www.usparliament.org/ss8.php

Prime Minister Joshua-Paul Angell [Socialist, CPUSA] Elected Secretary Mosheh Thezion [Republican] Elected Prime Minister Minister David L. Wetzell [LT Party Movement] Elected Secretary Diana P Fanai [All Party System] Elected Prime Minister Tina Cook [Independent] Elected



Ad for GoNott Search and GoNott Advertise http://usparliament.org/drafts/coalition7CA2014.html Volunteer Beta Testers Wanted



Roseanne Barr for President 2012 Facebook Page: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Roseanne-Barr-for-President-2012/153524907998543



Posted in RoseanneWorld.com and USParliament.org Forum: http://www.roseanneworld.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=75280#75280 http://usparliament.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=516


end

[-] -2 points by MrDman (-57) 3 years ago

The last four letters in American........I Can....

The last four letters in Republican.....I Can..
. The last four letters in Democrats.....Rats

[-] 1 points by USCitizenVoter (720) 3 years ago

Con is at the begining of how many words? Your point is.

[-] 0 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 3 years ago

Wow.... how sophisticated (and totally full of shit) your post is!!

[-] 0 points by MrDman (-57) 3 years ago

I love you to.....:)

[-] -2 points by saltybones55 (0) 3 years ago

remember kent state? i still cant believe that happened here. it wasn't long after that the war was over. i think most with jobs agree with the movement but are afraid to speak out for fear they will loose what they have worked for too. i think we must get money out of politics. no special intrest lobby. corrupt politicians must be removed. we must boycot any products made abroad and have headquaters here. corporations care more about the global economy and how they can make more money to keep for themselves. i can and will go on. saltybones55

[-] -2 points by saltybones55 (0) 3 years ago

remember kent state? i still cant believe that happened here. it wasn't long after that the war was over. i think most with jobs agree with the movement but are afraid to speak out for fear they will loose what they have worked for too. i think we must get money out of politics. no special intrest lobby. corrupt politicians must be removed. we must boycot any products made abroad and have headquaters here. corporations care more about the global economy and how they can make more money to keep for themselves. i can and will go on. saltybones55

[-] -2 points by velveeta (230) 3 years ago

I can buy the idea of "Wall Street" as a military tank out to cower a crowd of faceless consumers, but "Five Boroughs" and "Foley Square"? How is "Five Boroughs" the enemy? This poster is lame.

[-] -2 points by Joyce (375) 3 years ago

Spelling error!

[+] -4 points by NotYourMommy (-2) 3 years ago

This poster trivializes the courage and desecrates the memory of a very brave man. OWS protestors are in the indulgent lap of a free democracy.

[-] 3 points by zucnei (103) 3 years ago

Yeah - I don't remember the protestors in Tiananmen Square being given free reign of large corporate atriums, non-stop encouragement by a free press, liberal use of a union's headquarters, free food, and almost a million dollars in donations...

[-] 1 points by Storyteller (-1) from Yellow Springs, OH 3 years ago

Actually Tiananmen Square had a lot of material and spiritual support throughout China - until the Chinese government found some troops who were from far away and didn't speak the local language. In fact the inclusion of foreign pictures - American Flag - statue of liberty were the down fall of the movement There are a lot of simularties as some one who was alive and followed it very closely. I do agree the color of the poster is off. But the overall thrust is good. Though I worry they ae each making the same mistake here in using foreign symbols that isolate the domestic audience instead of domestic symbols.

[-] -1 points by Bambi (359) 3 years ago

I have a feeling that those comparing this movement to T-Square weren't even born yet............so that leaves them clueless

[-] 1 points by nycjoe (-1) 3 years ago

Wait, to "cluefully" compare A to B, you had to have been alive when B occurred? There goes the study of history....

[-] -1 points by Bambi (359) 3 years ago

I am 58........there's your answer

[-] 0 points by pfuentes (-4) 3 years ago

Absurd. If anything we should be less disinclined to action than the Chinese since we've secured the right to expression over time. A representative government does not guarantee just outcomes - it does however guarantee a space for articulating grievances and negotiating the ever-changing social contract. No tanks running over protesters? - Good. That is not an argument for being content with the way things are; and clearly, if you don't see that things are wrong, then you are either blind, brainwashed, or interested in maintaining systemic injustice.

[-] -1 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 3 years ago

In my new article ”The Transition Phase: The Road To Freedom” posted on my blog I express my views on where we go from here. People participating in this wonderful movement: please comment and express your opinions on what I´ve written. It´s important that we start discussing these things.Thanks SFF

[-] -2 points by aquabuddah (30) from Holland, MI 3 years ago

You're overreacting. OWS protesters staring down a phalanx of cops w/skull-splitting weapons is brave enough. PS, our country is fairly free, our democracy is ANYTHING BUT.

[-] 1 points by zucnei (103) 3 years ago

Not quite the same as staring down a TANK...

[-] 0 points by aquabuddah (30) from Holland, MI 3 years ago

You don't think this can get deadly? SWAT raided Chapel Hill. 1970 Kent State Shootings. You'd better believe it's deadly serious. Google it.

[-] -2 points by zoe (67) 3 years ago

The "indulgent lap" that made me homeless?