Occupy Wall Street Librarians Address Bloomberg for Destroying Books
Posted 3 months ago on Nov. 23, 2011, 7:59 a.m. EST by OccupyWallSt
Over 4,000 Books, Documents, Were Trashed by NYPD & Dept. of Sanitation in Raid
OWS Library Staff Recovers Books and Supplies, Less Than One-Fifth is Usable
What: Press conference to address the destruction of the OWS People's Library by Mayor Michael Bloomberg during the 11/15 raid.
Photo Opportunity — All of the recovered, destroyed books will be at the press conference.
Where: 260 Madison Ave, 20th Floor, between 38th and 39th St
When: Wednesday, November 23, at 12:00 noon
Who: Norman Siegel will host and moderate. Speakers: Gideon Oliver of the National Lawyers Guild, Hawa Allan a Fellow at Columbia Law School, and Occupy Wall Street Librarians from the People's Library. Law professors from Columbia, members of the American Library Association, various writers and others have been invited.
So far, the People’s Library has received 1,099 books back from the Dept. of Sanitation after last week's raid (some of which were not library books to begin with), and out of these, about 800 are still usable. About 2,900 books are still unaccounted for, and less than one-fifth of the original collection is still usable. These numbers may change slightly when the People’s Library gets an exact count of the recent (and final) retrievals from Sanitation, but not considerably.
“The People's Library was destroyed by NYPD acting on the authority of Mayor Michael Bloomberg on the night of the raid. In addition to all our supplies, laptops, and tent, they threw roughly 4,000 books into garbage trucks and dumpsters that were adjacent to the park, as well as assorted rare documents that were associated with OWS,” says William Scott, an Occupy Wall Street Librarian.
Click here to watch video of the NYPD and Dept. of Sanitation destroying the OWS People’s Library tent apart and throwing away all the books.
This kind of wanton vandalism is not political in the way that people think - it is routine for police in the U.S. to attack homeless encampments and destroy their meager possessions, as a way of trying to deter them from trying to live in a given area. Every community is locked in eternal war with every other to drive the poor out, and such measures give them the extra emphasis they need to try to get the upper hand over their neighbors.
This country needs a peace treaty, or at least a Geneva Convention, equally outlawing all communities from various methods of persecuting the homeless, in order to put a stop to such actions. For now, at least the OWS has made some people remember that this is going on.
It is political, and it is also how they routinely deal with the poor.
how bout the fact OWS is illegally occupying private property....wait...i thought OWS was a movement for change camping out indefinitely to protest, not a homeless community....the far left nut jobs in america always re-define according to convenience....you can't even tell the difference between reality and fantasy....truth and lies....wow what a shame....
The constitution, in the 1st amendment, prohibits the federal goverment from creating laws that interfere with peaceful assembly and protest. The 14th amendment prohibits states from creating laws that interfere with constitutional rights and freedoms. Any law, rule, or ordinance regarding public spaces that interferes with peaceful protest is therefore not legal in the context of peaceful assembly and protest. Police actions to break up a peaceful assembly therefore violate constitutional freedoms.
The supreme court is now a tool of corporate interests. I argue that any ruling that inhibits protests or peaceful assembly has no legal authority because there is a conflict of interest in that group that is demonstrated by outcomes that inhibit free protest and assembly. When a body charged with protecting and defining rights and freedoms takes them away, and the members have documented biases against the people, and their behavior becomes recognized as unethical, the people must not accept the status quo.
1st amendment supersedes those laws. They can occupy private property to protest. I think OWS would easily win a lawsuit against the state.
Even if they lost, they are still in the right. The real laws are what the people perceive them to be, not some secret crap hidden away behind the bench. Only laws that are known to and agreed to by the people can be valid.
Who owns the judges?
This issue was already covered heavily on this site - Zuccotti apparently was guaranteed to be available to the public 24 hours a day in exchange for zoning considerations. Not exactly laissez faire, but some kind of a deal, which makes the situation more similar to public than private property, while apparently creating some legal hurdles that slowed the city's response.
I don't think the city's response was legal at all. It was simply "Mike Bloomberg says" which passes for law in these parts.
Wouldn't it just be simplier for our city to let them freeze to death rather than to send police and community service officers around every night to check on them, offer rides to shelters, and to provide other assistance to the homeless, etc.
Then we wouldn't have to establish another big goverment department to implement the Geneva Convention here at home. Under which, the homeless would simply freeze to death anyway while they got organized and responded.
ronjj you are a stupid troll
dude... why no love?? You are part of the problem. wake up... or go get a gun and kill yourself...
Ignore. I been set aside as stupid, don't get too close, I might breath some "stupid" on you
AHHHHH USCitizenVoter, I was so looking forward to reading your other posts about me and now you have gone and deleted the other four. How nice of you..
Don't think so. Still here taunting you, be right back.
youre a "taunter" are ya? Maybe after the revolution, you'll have the job of taunting and torturing people in the "reeducation camps". That'll be great. You'll have job security, while people like me... hunt you at night.
I think there will a lot of hunters my friend.
Have you anything POSITIVE to say!?
Yes, yes. You must know by now that I am a stupid troll so don't put much stake in anything positive that I have to say.
It was a beautiful day here in the Southwest, unless you waited until today to go to WalMart or Kroegers to buy that turkey. But even that was beautiful just to see so many people preparing for a day of thanks.
I really don't take the PULLdowns personally. I have seen and heard all of this before, just not quite in this volume or from such a purported educationally advanced group. My experience with PULLdowns is that eventually everyone will get there sooner or later and I just choose not to go that way.
I love the freedom we have to share our free speech but I am a little depressed that so many posters think that this somehow involves the necessity to call names, tell others to go get a gun and kill themselves, and that they will be hunted at night. You see, I come from a culture that some believe have great powers that do not involve any hunting. You simply wake up in the morning, find an "omen" on your front porch, and are badly affected within two weeks even to the point of death. I do love my freedom of speech but I am also cautious who I express that freedom to and always try to member the myriad responsibilities that go along with that right. In other words, I believe that the right of speech gives the right to open our mouth, the responsibilities of free speech sometimes requires us to shut our mouth,
I am positive that if you work for or with me, you should share in the benefits of that work, which for some has been a real point of contention on this and other posts.. You do not get it handed to you on a silver platter and it does not happen immediately. We all eat off the same plate and have our lives to finish eating.
I am positive about the American Family as the backbone and strength of this nation. Within my family are various races, married and unmarried, different occupations and different beliefs - but we are still family.
I believe that there is an ultimate truth in the universe in and the right of each to seek that truth (call it freedom of religion or noreligion) I still believe it exists.
I believe in the strength of the individual and their responsibility to contribute to the good of society as a whole. I believe that every right carries the corresponding responsibility and to deny either is to deny both.
I believe that a lot of what we take personally is a result of some deficit within ourselves. I also believe that the PULLdown is actually caused by that same deficit.
It is after 8:00 here and I have things that have to be finished up tonight. Thank you for the question, I could go on forever but that would become boring to both of us.
Thank you and the OWS movement for their plans to share tomorrow through their Thanksgiving dinner for everyone. That act in and of itself, reduces some of the thoughts that this movement was only about a few asking for the many to help them. You can only get rid of the ME image by emphasizing the THEM image. Thanks again for the milestone to help erase an image so forcefully evidenced by some others.
Good Night and may you enjoy and give thanks tomorrow for all good things and for a few bad ones too - we can learn more from them sometimes and we are not as likely to break an arm patting ourselves on the back.
Could you explain why you feel that the OWS supporters are homeless and would freeze to death? I was searching for demographics when I found this article depicting the break down.
http://thesocietypages.org/graphicsociology/2011/11/17/occupy-wall-street-demographics/
It appears only 12.3% are unemployed and most are college educated. It would appear that most of these people are capable of taking care of themselves. Perhaps you could link to information that I have not taken into account?
I'm sorry, I'm the one who started going on about the homeless - the point is, the Occupiers are taking on, usually voluntarily, a homeless lifestyle in the parks, and the police are often treating them the way they normally treat the homeless.
why do you see it as "homelessness" ?? why cant they just be "campers" ? I like the term "House-Free" better than homeless, myself. Anybody with a brain these days and some experience owning real estate knows that American dream called "a house" is now a freaking "boat anchor". We have to discern and stop judging people by their package. "Homeless" is Orwellian newspeak I think, actually. There are a lot of different people you might call "homeless". some of them are mentally ill or just broken and hopeless. If you've ever lost your mind or your hope, you'd be slower to criticize these folks. some of them are there by choice, out of disgust with our corrupt system. others to just get over... those guys piss you off because... even YOU like to get over sometimes... They remind you of all the lying you do to yourselves.
I am sorry but I simply can not accept your logic. The original occupiers may have taken on the homeless lifestyle but somehow they allowed that to evolve into an illegal lifestyle of that of squatters, land grabbers, illegal building builders etc. At that point the police has no choice but to move in.
It's not illegal to protest and occupy space. Read Faithntruth's post above. No city law can go above the Constitution. Your opinion isn't law.
like I said before ronjj you are a stupid troll
Stupid I can handle, troll is your call.
I just noted about 5 more notifications from USCitizen Voter waiting for me to read. Kinda got you riled up didn't I. Or is it that you have no one else to reply to or to pick on and call stupid.
Such an intelligent comeback. No surprise people are dropping support of OWS in droves.
The city could have clarified that point simply by announcing that OWS had to clear out on a certain day for cleaning but would be allowed to encamp somewhere else the same way, and to return later, thus demonstrating that no protester was "owning" any particular patch of concrete without banning homelessness in general. Maybe any confrontation would have been avoided that way. But the city didn't do that, and municipalities don't do that for the homeless either - who are at least as likely to be accused of the same kind of squatting/land grabbing/illegal building etc.
That was between the OWS organization (leaderless, I know) and their city.
To a certain extent you make a reasonable argument. However, we had a very, very sad incident in a city near us, where a homeless man was killed by a city worker mowing weeds and clearning brush in a vacant area. Even though this was not known as a homeless area, inspection of the area, and the noise of the equipment, the incident happened with a sad impact on each of the men involved.
The homeless provide a much more fluid group than the OWS protestors did. The OWS staked out an area, claimed it as their "own" made efforts to keep outsiders out (other homeless, the media, etc), in effect errected buildings (tents), and in the meantime allowed a certain element into their area that lead to problems calling for action.
When the situation reached a point where just packing up and moving, even temporarily because of all the STUFF, became a major point of contention it was too late to talk about any clarification on the part of either party. Just the way I see it.
My feeling is that the homeless can't get away with nearly as much. They have no lawyers. The minute someone notices them - even someone with good intentions - an action to disperse them becomes inevitable.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_Housers for a very basic sane solution that would avoid anybody being run over by lawnmowers. Note that it is still illegal.
I realize that we live in two very difference situations. The homeless in our area tend to be temporary, to not congregate into specific limited areas, perhaps because we have a significant amount of open areas within the city.
Our approach is very much that of a one-on-one or at the least a small group-on-one basis. Our actions as not so much to disperse as to serve within the city through means I have already mentioned.
I noted the http: reference and found it very interesting. Our approach has always been one of providing more that a meal and a roof and usually includes health, sanitation, counseling, treatment and related services, more or less within the same service area.
I think that in many ways, concentration may be more harmful than helpful, other than convenience of providing services to those in need.
"The homeless in our area tend to be temporary, to not congregate into specific limited areas... "
That is extremely inaccurate. I see the same homeless (who knows whether they are truly homeless or not)/panhadlers in my town all the time, year after year. People know them by name or by their actions. People can identify them by what they say when they panhandle, because they always are here.
I've lived in both rural and urban areas, but the reactions I ended up reading about in the local news don't really seem to be that different. In both, the homeless can end up congregating due to the fear of attack by out-and-out criminals, including people who go in and beat them up just for fun, and in both, areas that become well known for congregation are then subject to police action, including the destruction of belongings.
Have you considered that there may be more fear from attack by those that know them best, know where their bottle, or food, of some other valuable is hidden??
I spent two years in an area that was frequented by the homeless. Walking, sitting and observing. I have a bit of a different perspective on this topic but you are probably very accurate from your perspective.
Thank you for the talk.
missing the point of this post again, ronjj you are a stupid troll
Another scathing and intellectual comeback from USCitizenVoter..Gee RoniJ how will you ever recover from that pwnage? ..lmao
At least we can agree on that one thing.
I was talking about the "real homeless" not the OWS supporters. If you are making that association, so be it. It appears from the above posts that you may be making that association - I am not and never did.
What I was opposing was even the suggestion that this should be in any way associated with the Geneva Convention or any other outside resource as a solution to the homeless and their rights.
My statements were written to defend our local efforts to protect even the most basic rights of the homeless to food and shelter, and we do that on a rountine basis through our police, Salvation Army, Goodwill training center etc.
Sure, here is your link - http:my head
It's not just a privilege to live in our country, we Americans have the constitutional rights to protest in our streets. Get over it.
Got over it a long ago myself. I can totally ignore anyone that only has one word in their vocabulary - "rights" at the exclusion of its companion "responsiblities".
I AM stupid, please ignore me, it might be catching.
The problem with people who harp responsibilities is that usually they are the type of people who have a really specific idea of what other people's responsibilities should be and also to believe that people have to earn the right to exist and to be treated with compassion.
Have you even considered that the problem with people might be people who start their post with "The problem with people...."
Yes it's our rights. We love our flag. You don't see us burning it do you? So your pissed because we're mad as hell that our books got taken away from us. Does not make any sense for you to be mad at occupy.
I'm not really sure on this one, but I think there's a trade-off there, because some of them are easy cases that might be effectively gotten rid of by a moment's break in luck, and some might be chatted up and persuaded, eventually, to take a bus somewhere else ... and there's the ultimate fail-safe that people facing death who don't have mental problems might end up making a living by force. The big cities do indeed end up becoming the receiving point for homeless from all the surrounding area, because they actually do treat them a little bit better than others... for whatever reason.
OK - I may not be sure either. I have been to Phoenix in the winter. The "snowbirds" are not only the retired but also the homeless who like the climate. PS: I was born-raised in Iowa so I can relate to the weather in PA and I would be getting out of there in the winter too if someone gave me a bus ticket.
Bloomberg should resign. FYI: learn the name “Adrian Schoolcraft” ex NYPD officer. He was put in the psych ward for blowing the whistle blowing. http://www.villagevoice.com/2010-06-15/news/adrian-school-craft-nypd-tapes-whistleblower/
I want you to know that I first came across his name possibly a month ago. I was surprised because this has been going on since 2009. That man is a hero. I don't come across too many people anymore that qualify. He most certainly does.
Yes, the Adrian Schoolcraft story has been covered up and why? Same with The NY Post always attempting to show OWS in a bad light and NY Times, NY Post and NY Daily News refuse to cover our protests OWS Health care joined with us demanding a hospital and on health care? Why? Both are some how threatening and both are blacked out by the media. Thanks for your response. This OWS Healthcare joining us for hospital blacked out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7vEKwL2g0Y&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PL61BD13383CD0EDDF
In Orlando, FL during the Casey Anthony trail, the Orlando PD sent about 20 police officers to a city park to arrest people for feeding the homeless. I saw the video online. They dragged the volunteers thru the park and beat them. The food was thrown away while hungry people stood by.
If the city of Orlando had used those police officers to investigate the Casey Anthony case I think the outcome would have been different.
The Predator State is Here!
Isn’t it interesting what Bloomberg’s pals who own the newspapers do not report? The woman trying to hand NYPD a court order from a judge getting punched in the face? The court order from a judge, the library -- the books being destroyed, except for Michael Powell NYTimes not much in main stream media about the press being punched, falsely arrested, kept from the scene....how NY Post always demonizes and trivializes OWS and how most New Yorkers do not know who Adrian Schoolcraft is. The NYPD fixed tickets for city council officials -- we have not been given their names...the names of city officials...what else was fixed besides tickets and was the PBA involved...not news.http://youtu.be/3lLEIMM1sD8 This was yesterday’s youtube -- includes me talking about the largest white collar crimes EVER in NYC gov history and Haggerty trial how Bloomberg and “Team Bloomberg” including deputy mayors given immunity by our corrupt DA. They did not waive immunity. Why? The Manhattan DA and U S attorney have failed us.
yes, search "noam chomsky propaganda" for info as to why.
Burning books is a typical response to bully us into silence. This one incident sealed my resolve. Orwell was right----1984 has arrived.
1984 has arrived in New York City.
There is a lot of America that is NOT New York City and never wants to be.
5th Amendment rights officially violated
I see no legal or moral justification for throwing the property into the garbage.
They were doing what organized tyrants often do; sending a message of disrespect and harm, warning those persons present that they (NYPD, Bloomberg, et al) possess the (illegitimate) power to behave in unscrupulous and inhumane ways; nothing more and nothing less.
It was NYPD's and Bloomberg's version of 'Shock and Awe,' now seemingly accepted policy not only in foreign countries, but at home, too.
THAT'S why Bloomie called for a press black-out.
What they did to you guys was simply abhorrent and unacceptable. But it illustrates well what the police are. In the US the wealthy more or less control policies ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MN2Q6sdh6Bg ) . The police is a tool of the business-run governement/state to try to crush the ones who want to take back from the wealthy what has been stolen thru bailouts, exploitation and speculation at the stock exchange. The elites are starting to feel threatened, they want to keep all that they have stolen, so naturally they want to stop The Occupy Movement and anyone else involved in the struggle with police force.
These tendencies are however an indcation that we´re on the right track: The elites are getting scared, and react by increasing their effort in trying to crush movements. The finacial elite will however fail. Police brutality is counter-productive, it just leads to more support and sympathy for people engaged in the struggle among the general population. In other words, full steam ahead; do exactly the things that make the elites (and their supporters and servants) hysteric.
Solidarity from Norway struggleforfreedom
Hey struggle,
The elites don't even know you're out there. Only the senseless believe OWS has affected anything.
What were the OWS crowds supporting? They support the Arab Spring. But they don't realize the Arab Spring removed several dictators who are about to be replaced by oppressive Islamic fundamentalist regimes. The arabs are going from bad to worse because Islam has little tolerance for democracy and NO tolerance for free speech. Women are slaves and non-muslims are legally second-class citizens.
just because one is inspired by an uprising somewhere else doesnt mean you have to support all methods and attitudes of those people.
The impact that The Occupy movement is having is not as high as we wish, but thats why we have to focus on growing and organizing:
http://struggleforfreedom.blogg.no/1321101669_the_transition_phase_.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZbNT62aprM
OWS has the same dictatorial ideas as the Muslim Brotherhood. When you leanr something about economics, finance, science and technology, someone might care. Till then, you're in dreamland.
Only the senseless try to deny the truth - hasn't affected anything? I'm sorry but a statement like this leads me to believe that you are ill informed, and you can try to shout out as much as you like in order to quell spirit, but you are wrong. Your position is wrong. Your support of gorilla tactics is wrong, and no amount of whining will make you right.
human papillomavirus (also called HPV) is the most common transmitted infection (STI). There are more than 40 HPV types that can infect the genital areas of males and females. These HPV types can also infect the Genital HPV Infection - Fact Sheet What is genital HPV infection?Genital human papillomavirus (also called HPV) is the most common sexually transmitted infection (STI). There are more than 40 HPV types that can infect the genital areas of males and females. These HPV types can also infect the mouth and throat. Most people who become infected with HPV do not even know they have it.HPV is not the same as herpes or HIV (the virus that causes AIDS). These are all viruses that can be passed on during sex, but they cause different symptoms and health problems.What are the signs, symptoms and potential health problems of HPV?Most people with HPV do not develop symptoms or health problems from it. In 90% of cases, the body’s immune system clears HPV naturally within two years. But, sometimes, HPV infections are not cleared and can cause: Genital warts Rarely, warts in the throat -- a condition called recurrent respiratory papillomatosis, or RRP. When this occurs in children it is called juvenile-onset RRP (JORRP).Cervical cancer and other, less common but serious cancers, including cancers of the vulva, vagina, penis, anus, and oropharynx (back of throat including base of tongue and tonsils). The types of HPV that can cause genital warts are not the same as the types that can cause cancers. There is no way to know which people who get HPV will go on to develop cancer or other health problems.
Signs and symptoms of HPV-related problems: Genital warts usually appear as a small bump or group of bumps in the genital area. They can be small or large, raised or flat, or shaped like a cauliflower. Health care providers can diagnose warts by looking at the genital area during an office visit. Warts can appear within weeks or months after sexual contact with an infected partner—even if the infected partner has no signs of genital warts. If left untreated, genital warts might go away, remain unchanged, or increase in size or number. They will not turn into cancer.Cervical cancer usually does not have symptoms until it is quite advanced. For this reason, it is important for women to get regular screening for cervical cancer. Screening tests can find early signs of disease so that problems can be treated early, before they ever turn into cancer. Other HPV-related cancers might not have signs or symptoms until they are advanced and hard to treat. These include cancers of the vulva, vagina, penis, anus, and oropharynx (back of throat including base of tongue and tonsils). For signs and symptoms of these cancers, see www.cancer.gov. RRP is a condition in which warts grow in the throat. These growths can sometimes block the airway, causing a hoarse voice or troubled breathing.mouth and throat. Most people who become infected with HPV do not even know they have it. HPV is not the same as herpes or HIV (the virus that causes AIDS). These are all viruses that can be passed on during sex, but they cause different symptoms and health problems.What are the signs, symptoms and potential health problems of HPV?Most people with HPV do not develop symptoms or health problems from it. In 90% of cases, the body’s immune system clears HPV naturally within two years. But, sometimes, HPV infections are not cleared and can cause: Genital warts ,Rarely, warts in the throat -- a condition called recurrent respiratory papillomatosis, or RRP. When this occurs in children it is called juvenile-onset RRP (JORRP).Cervical cancer and other, less common but serious cancers, including cancers of the vulva, vagina, penis, anus, and oropharynx (back of throat including base of tongue and tonsils).The types of HPV that can cause genital warts are not the same as the types that can cause cancers. There is no way to know which people who get HPV will go on to develop cancer or other health problems. Signs and symptoms of HPV-related problems: Genital warts usually appear as a small bump or group of bumps in the genital area. They can be small or large, raised or flat, or shaped like a cauliflower. Health care providers can diagnose warts by looking at the genital area during an office visit. Warts can appear within weeks or months after sexual contact with an infected partner—even if the infected partner has no signs of genital warts. If left untreated, genital warts might go away, remain unchanged, or increase in size or number. They will not turn into cancer.Cervical cancer usually does not have symptoms until it is quite advanced. For this reason, it is important for women to get regular screening for cervical cancer. Screening tests can find early signs of disease so that problems can be treated early, before they ever turn into cancer. Other HPV-related cancers might not have signs or symptoms until they are advanced and hard to treat.
Nothing sounded more beautiful than"The People's Library." and the destruction of the books and materials by the NYPD ranks among its greatest crimes. The action reminded me of every act of violence committed by dictatorial regimes throughout history.
You are wasting you time on a troll. ronjj will give you his BS as long as you'll defend your comments.
just like when they burned ALL the Mayans' books(thousands)..only 4 codex's actually exist today
YOU lost one-of-a-kind books and manuscripts from your "Peoples Library"??? That is criminal, it has to stop NOW before we have no books left. Next thing we know they will be tearing down those monuments called tents and we will never be able to enjoy those masterpieces of architecture protecting those priceless books again.
YOU and jimmy44 grab hands and ride off in the sunset together...write poems together...sing them loud over the clifftops of this great amerikkka together...together you 2 guys...well...you 2 guys can change the world...have fun @ TARGET guys ;]
May I quote you to the Target Manager, he lives next door.
OMG you drama queens. You compare this to 911 and now the Mayan book burnings? You just make me sick you are so self-centered.
Thanks Jimmy - as I posted before, you are there in NY, NY. Thanks.
You're welcome.
didnt i tell you to go eat a hot bowl of dicks?? well if i havent yet...do so...and when you throw up in your mouth again...just regurgitate it bro..appreciate it
and the usual response from a fcukhead OWS moron: ad hominem abuse. Too closed-minded to see past your own entitlement tantrums. You're a disgrace to the human race, you piece of filth.
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh how sweet. We have several "Peoples' Libraries" here in our town too. They are called the 'Public Libraries', the College Library, the Museum Library, the Children's Library and on and on. We even have a church or two in town with libraries open to the public. They just put up a different sign on each and we don't spend a lot of time with the beauty of the sound - we spend more time reading and having a great time enjoying our lives.
Many of us here are very interested in civil debate and policy recommendations. Is your recommendation that because collections of books that are not part of Public Libraries, Museums, Children's Libraries, etc., are unread and the readers are not enjoying their lives, that these book collections should be excluded from the protection of the law?
Thanks for your input.
Not at all. The point I was trying to make is this. I pay taxes, we build libraries, we treasure our books, we support our local book dealers, I even kept my old, outdated, written in college textbooks from umpteen years ago-because I did not want to destroy them.
When I DO want to get rid of them, I will put them in a tent on my neighbors' lawn and they will disappear and I won't feel guilty about it or even shed a tear.
So, your point?
My point is this. I live a long way, away from NY City, I would have brought my old college textbooks to your park and donated them to your library with the knowledge that sooner or later the city would haul them off for me since the legality of your library was in dire question. My point is this, It was too far so I will just put them in a tent on my neighbor' lawn and he will see that the city hauls them off for me. Same results - much easier.
OooooooooooK
I know, it is late in the day to be trying to explain myself.
Is your real concern with the books themselves or the tent that housed the books. Read this history of the Dead Sea Scrolls for the correct answer to that question.
I think librarians around the country should protest all the overdue and never returned books. I'll bet some of these communal books had library stickers on the spines. This is an enormous waste of manpower. Acting as if the man is trying to keep information out of hands of the masses.
Nazis destroy books.
The first thing Communist did in my Country of origin is burn the Books !!!
So many books and documents have been burned throughout history when one group has the interest of taking over of another group.... but the trolls are too blind to see this as a serious matter.
Ah.... but the trolls on here think it's not important (because books are useless to them), so they are OK with the fucking NYPD and Bloomberg doing this. They just don't get it.
They never will get it. It is more comfortable for them to go along. The Jews went along too, until it was too late.
The books at the library in the Occupy Wall Street encampment were neatly stored in plastic tubs to protect them from the rain.
See video interview of Occupy Wall Street interview of library at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ndc9o1NN9WY
Let us not forget that books were also mass destroyed in 1933 during the Nazi book burning ceremonies. See http://www.ushmm.org/museum/exhibit/online/bookburning/burning.php
One of the books was John Rawls' "A Theory Of Justice". So OWS could retitle this article "The Day The NYPD Threw Justice Into The Trash". (The Library now has a fresh copy.)
I feel a bit stupid having to post...but, the occupy wall st movement has just as much right to camp in a public park as anyone has to camp in a public rec area....we pay taxes for them and they are ours. not the judges. I am a libertarian on the right side of certain things. i do not back the LEFTS super agenda with occupy but i back the idea..and the people of this united states of america are backed by the constitution with the right to assemble. if we can occupy iraq and occupy Afghanistan then leave them the f alone!!! not to mention U.S. bases set up all over the globe!!!! Ron Lawl 2012
and i dont appreciate the ron p a u l LAWL THING . it automatically changes it to LAWL thats just gay fuck obama
Ron Lawl is a right wing teabag racist who believes in segregation, abolishing public schools so that only rich kids can be educated, abolishing social security and medicaid, and lowering taxes for the richest 1%. This site is run by Tea Party types who support Ron Lawl, Fox News, and Congress, but hate Obama and they are the ones who programmed Lawl, much to Karl Rove's pleasure. Karl Rove and the GOPers want one thing - Mitt Romney. They use Ron Lawl to pull votes away from the Democrats and split the vote because nobody is going to vote for Mitt Romney.
amen bro, Ron Lawl is a wolf in sheep's clothing.
This may not be the right forum, but it seems to me if you want to know something, ask a librarian! I am Curious - What would happen if we ALL refused to file or pay or acknowledge the said taxes come april 15, 2012 ? If we collectively refuse to file, what happens to the IRS ? Do we actually owe & benefit from these taxes or are they complexly-well written beaurocratic red tape none of us understand and like sheep do what we're told ? Who knows what really happens if we refuse ?
And they wonder why OWS strives to occupy many places and simply refuse to move. If they raid libraries and other areas where violence is far less likely to occur, then we ought to defy the police.
They could have at least gave the books to a local library. Throwing them in the trash is simply disrespectful.
It's almost like the Khymer Rouge and Year Zero. Authoritarian governments around take ideas from dictatorships. Democracy is last thing big business wants. It wants total control.
Fahrenheit 451, 1953 novel by Ray Bradbury
RECALL Bloomberg:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/recall-mayor-bloomberg/
So wrong, especially coming from those who claim that private property is sacred.
Mama must be really proud of Bloomberg turning New York's "Finest" into the #1 gang in town defying court injunction under his leadership. Perhaps he will even lead them in book burning celebrating Kristallnacht to keep the OWS people warm to show his empathy for their suffering in the cold. Wealth has great power to change people, doesn't it?
Wilhelm Reich's (one of Freud's students) books were rounded up and burned in a New York City incinerator shortly after WWII. When he fled Nazi Germany he obviously picked the wrong country... :p
May I suggest a move to digitize "The People's Library". Creating a website for all these books and any other literature related to the theme of OWS, being true democracy and fiscal accountability. This would allow for a large exchange of ideas, and the NYPD could never tear it down!
I believe the idea was to have a physical library there where anyone could go and check out books.... for free. Perhaps there could be an online library as well as a physical one.
Can you (people who are behind this movement) explain what is it that you want? I'm having a very difficult time understand what is it that OWS wants or needs?
My view is - what the Occupy Movement is striving for is an end to the chain of corruption that exists between the elite and our so called Democratic Government. Democracy is supposed to keep capitalism in check. What has happened is that the US government adopted Ayn Rand's view of untethered capitalism. Glass Steagal was repealed by Gramm Leach Bliley in order to make American capitalism competitive with Europe. (Yeah, that was a good idea? Not!). As a result, people saw savings depleted and their hopes of a better future dashed. The cost of education has out paced incomes and many people are struggling to achieve the now elusive American Dream. The Occupy Movement isn't asking for any handouts, contrary to the venom spewed through ignorance. Only a hardened heart wouldn't see that. Just as it was reflected in the movie 'Its a Wonderful Life', which starred Jimmy Stewart, we have Henry F. Potters who place greed above democratic decency. Goldman Sachs, under the direction of Lloyd Blankfein, committed fraud. Yet there has been NO JUSTICE served. If there is a god, perhaps they will get theirs in the end. We can only hope that others will open their mind to what is happening. It is our children's and grand-children's futures that are at stake.
I would only ask questions:
I am trying not to "harden my heart" towards the Occupy Movement but you are making your intentions TOO obvious to not be affected.
If you can't understand what people have been saying on here, why this movement and others have started, then you either don't want to see the truth and won't connect the dots, or you are too ignorant to. I think it's because you don't want to.
WHY in the name of common sense, do you require anyone, of any questionable (ignorant) educational level, to "connect the dots" in order to understand what you are all about.
It is the equivalent of saying: "guess what my name is: I'm 6' tall, good looking, blind in one eye though, can't pay for my education but can protest, weigh 65 lbs, limp a little, have a great desire to teach you how to grow veggies in the park, am married, have my own home, wear a size petite dress ................."
I really do want to: I think it is because I am too ignorant to, and that is not helping my poor self esteem.
People keep stating that they want to know what the movement is about, because the movement hasn't stated it yet, when it has over and over again. It's not hard to figure out. People can stop saying B.S. like they don't know what it's about.
That's the point. The people who keep saying that are right wing puppets and trolls.
No reply. Just the same question. You didn't kick "me down the road" even an inch.
Suggest you get a job at a veggie canning factory, if you only want to put labels on things.
No, she did. No one here is your slave to go do your research for you. I'm sure you're a big enough boy to click on a few links. Except that you don't care - everything you already think about the world MUST be the way things are - all your compatriots and business co-workers are all fine enough people. They would NEVER support anything that could be wrong. The root of the problem is
Get money out of politics - if you need examples then you are too stupid to understand the problem - they are all over the internet. This is not a partisan issue, it affects everyone. (Though the Right-wingers are all for a gun-toting taxless society where all business can rape consumers blind)
Change the system so that what happened with the sub-prime mortgage fiasco and subsequent bail-out are made impossible to happen again. F&k Ayn Randism - F&k the idea that unfettered capitalism = the true American Dream. That is the most heinous lie I've heard since the annexation of the Sudentenland, and anyone who believes this s*&t needs to be stripped of their citizenship and sent to Somalia for a month. The aims of business have NO basis for justification of any and all actions to reach those aims.
Prosecute those involved in creating the above fiasco.
These things and these things alone should be enough to bring the other problems in line which spread out from this root problem and cause the multitude of protest signs that most of those who listen to Rush Limburger and watch Faux News pretend to not understand. A bit like you, though I can't make any judgements not knowing you. Certainly the things you appear to support brand you right off as a piece of Crap Gorilla, but then I've been wrong before.
No reply could be worth my time or yours.
What do you want out of your American Dream? Personally, I would just like the nightmare to end. I would like our government(s) to renew vows on the Bill of Rights. I would like my vote and my children's votes to be more valuable that the most connected lobbyist in Washington. All forms of corruption at all government levels should be viewed as treason against our democracy and prosecuted as such. I would like my kids to have an opportunity at an education without them or me having to become slaves to big banks in order to afford it. I would like to see ingenuity drive investments in THIS country's infrastructure to provide a more sustainable life for the citizens.... for the earth. I would like to see aggressive actions to build prosperity in this country in terms of regulating what we build vs. what we buy from other countries. Finally, I would like to see more focus on what connects us rather than what divides. Make sense? This is my OWS protest sign... What's yours?
They have no idea, other than demanding other people give them money because they are alive.
You are wrong. There has been no such demand. Perhaps you need to detox by turning off Fox News. I used to watch Rupert Murdoch's Fox News channel, but then I realized that the station is a propaganda machine that spews lies and half truths. Unfortunately, many businesses play this channel in company lunch rooms because it serves their purpose. We must be intelligent enough to know the truth. We also must be intelligent enough to know when we are being manipulated. We also must stand up to the lies that are being spread regarding the occupy movement. That is what I am doing NOW!!! The Occupy Movement is trying to restore democracy - Period!!! I am tired of the Corporate Managed Lobbyist State that has emerged!!! That is why I support the Occupy Movement!!! Long Live the Occupy Movement!
This you should be afraid of. FOX news hardly mentions the movement on any news programs. Some other channels (MSNBC) are all gaga about the movement - might check who is trying to manipulate whom. You are going to get broadsided and you won't even know what hit you.
You're yet another ding-dong with no knowledge of economics, finance, science, technology and politics. It a sure sign of a limited mind when you -- or any other whiner -- cites Fox News as a brain-warping power.
As for the stations playing in corporate lunch rooms, well, based on your silly claim, it's obvious you have no experience with corporate lunch rooms.
Sorry to disappoint you, but I have a Master of Science in Engineering and a Master of Science in Management and was a Senior Executive in a Fortune 20 company (United Technologies Corporation). Name calling is a sign of low intelligence. Thank you for revealing your true self. It is obvious that I will not be able to conduct an intelligent conversation with you. Good Bye.
It doesn't matter what you say to the trolls. They'll deny anything you say and think they're right about everything.... and they'll accuse all of us of being loser, stinky, dirty, lazy, unmotivated, spoiled brat hippies without jobs!!!!
You are right. I decided to get back to developing a new computer application that I am working on for my daughter's business. I am hoping that it will provide her with a competitive advantage. An excellent book that is worth reading is titled "It Starts with One" by J. Stewart Black and Hal B. Gregersen. Chapter 2 discusses Barrier #1, which is 'Failure to See'. The text was part of a strategic management course. You can find it on Amazon.
MS in engineering and managment, and senior exec at United Technologies? I doubt it. But I do like the stock, though yesterday Sikorsky announced a layoff.
Have a Happy Thanksgiving with your family. I know I will as I celebrate it with my wife, four of my children, and five of my seven grandchildren. Unfortunately one of my daughters can not be here as she and her husband pastor a church out west. Furthermore, she is due any day now with our eighth grandchild. Have a blessed Thanksgiving. Dakota
Can you (people who are behind this movement) explain what is it that you want? I'm having a very difficult time understand what is it that OWS wants or needs?
Personally, I'd like the NYPD to stop destroying books while the city's various public library systems (NYPL, BPL, etc.), DOE school libraries, and CUNY libraries have to fight tooth and nail to maintain the meager funding they receive.
Probably, I say probably, a lot of difference between the books that were removed from the area, and anything you want to see appear in your schools' library.
Do you have proof of that, or are you talking out of your ass again? I'm sure it's the latter.
Regardless of the topics of the books that were in the OWS library, one doesn't have the right to steal and then destroy the property others.... even if it is the god damn NYPD.
If you don't like the car your neighbor is driving, do you think you have the right to destroy it? Your log is complete bullshit.
So is your mouth. What is your point?
My point is that you are trying to justify what the NYPD did, simply because you say the books were trash and weren't good books. First of all, you have no proof of that, and second, it doesn't matter what you think of those books. They were OTHER PEOPLE'S PROPERTY, and the NYPD had NO RIGHT to take and to destroy them.
To a certain point I have to agree with you. They were other people's property. However, the question is whether OWS had the right to commandeer the public domain to set up their library and expect the police to guard it for them.
If I decide to set up a church in the park down the street, will you fight just as hard for my rights to be there, to set up a church library and to stay as long as I please. And will you support the Police in their responsibility to protect my books there.
shut up and troll on.........
Questions like that kinda hit a soft spot don't they dingy. And excuse me I will turn the volumn on my computer down and shut up, I didn't realize you were listening. Thanks for listening.
No, ronj - it doesn't. It doesn't matter one damn bit. Legally, the encampment's legality had bugger all to do with the destruction of property. The double standard between the Tea Party (which was not left alone because they brought guns - it was left alone because it's not a real damn party - it's a sham funded in part by the Koch Brothers to split the vote two election cycles ago - no interference because they weren't whining about anything important, and the few who were were outnumbered by the "party's" right leaning numbers) and the treatment of OWS protesters who came peacefully says it all. When you strike the root nerve of the organism of society, suddenly you are messing around with what people wrongly assume is the "most real" thing you can mess around with - the money. Once it's about actually bringing people to justice for their crimes - the details of which have been relied upon by politicians/bankers to get buried under the compliance and apathy of the average citizen - suddenly it's time to beat on one's breast like the gorillas they are at heart. Show them overkill - swat them a good one and they'll never do it again. Might makes right totalitarian bullshit. And if you support that over what the OWSers are trying to peacefully protest, then you are just a piece of crap Gorilla too, supporting crime when it suits you, and citing the illegality of peaceful encampments when that suits you too. Bloomberg went around one judge's ruling until he could find another one that did what he wanted them to. The whole thing is a sham, and your casual disregard for others rights when they are clearly pointing out dangerous fiscal problems with our system and are unarmed yet are still bloodied and battered by those who hold the real "power"simply paints you as the piece of crap Gorilla that you are.
Hey - Mad, it's Happy here. How you doing or should I ask.
You probably are Mad, and I don't blame you,as you HAVE been typing away at a piece of crap for quite awhile there. Why don't you stomp on me now for good measure. I would love to go home with you on the bottom of your shoe. I would consider it an honor just as you consider the park actions an honor.
Wear your honor badge and crap where ever you want. Somehow, I feel that a little part of me will be right there with you and in the air surrounding you.
And while you are at it - this is not exactly a court room. If you want to bring people to justice for their crimes, you will have to find another venue starting with some type of Police action that you now have on the bottom of your other shoe. Please scrap me and the Police off your shoes before you go in there.
While you are busy doing that, your last comments regarding "clearly pointing out dangerous fiscal problems with our system" seem to be a revelation to you somehow. It is similar to a two year old child running around showing everyone his "owie" on his elbow. And then turning around to do it again to the same group.
You HAVE MADE your point and so have a lot of others. Now we all got points - the question is what do you intend to do about yours other than step on the crap again and again and again.
Is there something I am missing in your post other than the fact that you have a point and crap on your shoe. I am a farmer. I have a tractor and crap on my shoe. Are you impressed NOW???
Open your eyes and then it will be clear. You are having a difficult time because you are trying to use a Socratic argument to shut us up. Won't work. Answer your own questions and stop trolling....it's wearing thin.
So is you authoritarian attitude.
You need to do some reading. It appears that a lot of folks make that comment but the answers are everywhere. Try this example:
http://www.truth-out.org/where-does-occupy-wall-street-go-here/1322057279
Now, you cannot ask that question again, ok?
I have asked a lot more vital questions that that one onegandolf1, and you picked the one that was easy to answer with an http:
Give some thought to my other questions, get rid of the fat ugly guy and we can talk again.
Well, it's the only one that I saw, and I've heard it asked a couple dozen times. They are being open ended on purpose, and leaderless on purpose. That gives right wingers no targets and raises their Blood Pressure alarmingly causing Occupy Supporters to giggle uncontrollably :)
Yeah, I agree. It is always easier for the right wingers, or anyone else, to laugh and mock a group. I suspect that they find the same things funny that you do. TEHE TEHE TEHE - who was that laughing, was it the occupy supporters or the right wingers.
Whoever it was, we all get a good laugh out of it, wouldn't you agree???
It just tickles me no end, and It's going to have a demonstrably favorable on my Blood Pressure when I next get it checked :)
Can I ask why dingy58 has the right to violate almost every one of the points made on your referenced http: and I am the one being told to "SHUT UP"??
There are a lot of words in the English language to describe that kind of behavior - you KNOW what they are.
What do you want out of your American Dream? Personally, I would just like the nightmare to end. I would like our government(s) to renew vows on the Bill of Rights. I would like my vote and my children's votes to be more valuable that the most connected lobbyist in Washington. All forms of corruption at all government levels should be viewed as treason against our democracy and prosecuted as such. I would like my kids to have an opportunity at an education without them or me having to become slaves to big banks in order to afford it. I would like to see ingenuity drive investments in THIS country's infrastructure to provide a more sustainable life for the citizens.... for the earth. I would like to see aggressive actions to build prosperity in this country in terms of regulating what we build vs. what we buy from other countries. Finally, I would like to see more focus on what connects us rather than what divides. Make sense? This is my OWS protest sign... What's yours?
Free money is what they want, and they should not have to work for it, and everyone else should have to clean up their mess. Entitlement. I think that about covers it.
Hey Jimmy I thought you told me you work...and yet you troll this forum at 11:30am...I highly doubt you are anything but a troll ...let me guess your day off right, and YOU OBVIOUSLY DO NOT support this movement...so you send your day off trolling...what a joke...What you have a list there right, They are dirty, whiny,have entitlement issue,need jobs....Jimmy44=Troll...Tell us Jimmy IS THIS YOUR JOB lol....Anyone who spends as much time as you do on a forum they dont support is the one who has problems. Remember Jimmy My City, My Subway...I hope and Pray that the people who do care about AMERICA, when they come to this website recognize you for the TROLL YOU ARE Jimmy44 is a TROLL looks like RONIJ is to
Hey dickwad, if you hadn't noticed this is Thanksgiving - I took a week off work - that ok by you, asshole? Always looking for an excuse - anything to avoid facing the truth or opening your mind just a little to the fact that some people just don't have the same opinion as you do, you arrogant egocentric prick. You are FAR worse than the people you complain about.
Thanksgiving Troll
Thanksgiving Whore.
Worse yet, a low class troll that has to resort to name calling and cursing which shows his limited intelligence. Have a good day my friend. ;)
First, I'm not your friend. Second, I responded to someone calling me a derogatory term, but because they support your agenda, they therefore can do no wrong. Do as I say, not as I do. That seems to have become the theme of OWS, and you're a prime example. You're an idiot.
WTF - can you tell me - when you claim not to know what they want - how you can then claim that you do know what they want, and it's something that they have never - in all of the websites after websites - stated for one moment?
No - because just like all the others this is the same verbage used over and over. Say it enough and they'll believe you. What, do you have, like, a church meeting somewhere and repeat these phrases like a cult? Or is it just something you're scared of and don't fully understand and so you repeat what you hear on the news like a parrot? Everything's fun and games until the bullshit that is happening starts to affect you - oh no! No! If YOU stick with the "winners" you will get away with ANYthing in the name of might make right. Go ahead. Keep thinking that way. Please. Heh...
The nearest thing to what you say is probably the correct move to tax the rich. 20 percent of of 50,000 dollar income is 10,000 dollars. - 1/5th of total income. A mere .03 increase in taxes from someone who makes a million dollars a year is 30,000 dollars. THREE TIMES as much for a tiny fraction. So why do we take more out of lower income? Then there's corporate taxes - which I've checked, they are NOT the worst in the world, and after all the loopholes many corporations end up paying as much as a middle class family. What this means is that far from being the apex of American virtue - they want to f&*k the government up the a$$ because they feel their independence makes them above the law. They do not want to pay their share to maintain this country of ours. They are ungrateful $hit$.
As always, your input is appreciated. Could you please provide the source material from OWS where these demands are stated?
The people's mic.
A written record from OWS material would be kindly appreciated. My understanding is that the people's mic is a means for people to amplify their voice and speak their own opinions when voice-amplifying equipment is forbidden.
Not my fault if you weren't there. I guess you just aren't dedicated to the movement. Best you go ask OWS for a transcript.
I appreciate your response. But I feel there might be a slight misunderstanding. Do you feel that when a single person's voice is amplified using the people's mic, that this represents a binding position of all people who associate themselves with OWS? Or do you see the people's mic as a voice-amplification system?
An individual there is part of the OWS movement, or do you see that the OWS only consists of a small group of central elite, and everyone else is not part of it.
Give it up moron. You lose. Pwned.
Jimmy - I will respect your post because you are there NY, NY. Thanks.
Moving the library would have been less work than trashing it. The NYPD is thorough and not afraid of work, when that work is destruction.
I base this on my personal experience in moving books. I sell books at events of a re-enactment group, and this year took 1800 books five hundred miles to an event, for example.
Given how the library was packed in bins, it would actually have been easier to stack the bins, put them on the carts the NYPD had, and put them in trucks. But...that would not have destroyed them.
I would get a list of books and ask that the city replace them.
Replace them you say? Considering they were donated, their value is zero. They will give you what it cost you - nothing. But while we're on the subject of being compensated, maybe they should bill you for all the hours of additional police and city workers time spent cleaning up after you and repairing what you have destroyed.
Better yet, how about you reimburse the people who are really paying for your actions : the 99% who pay through taxes. How about taking some responsibility for your actions you bunch of entitlement brats.
The NYPD gave you all warning that they were shutting you down, gave you time to clean up and advised they would clear everything out that was left over if you didn't clean it up yourselves, and now you're whining because you did nothing? It's called consequences. Most people learn this early in life. Really, grow up.
They should have taken everything to a tip instead of being considerate enough to let you come back and claim it. Pathetic.
Wrong again. It doesn't matter if they were donated, they have an inherent market value dumba$$. The park was not destroyed, and it was kept clean by the OWS. The books WERE destroyed. The only pathetic character in this story is you, for thinking that a "tough love" indifferent approach means squat in the long run. The decision to use city funds to interact at all with the OWS crowd is a decision made by Bloomberg. I think if you asked all the taxpayers in a city in which 71% of the people support the OWS you'd find a different story. Try turning the page when you learn to read and respect literature. Ape.
Then start another one. It's New York city. If you held a peaceful book drive instead of telling people to shut things down, you would get 4,000 books in less than a day.
Destruction of books has been a hallmark of totalitarianism for centuries. That is why so many of us find this chilling and appalling.
Are you kidding me?! You are likening this to totalitarian information control. You idiots. If you hadn't left your books on the street, they wouldn't have been destroyed. Dorks.
They were in a shelter, and safely packed. If they had been moved, fine. The evidence indicates deliberate destruction.
That's vandalism.
The NYPD gave you all warning that they were shutting you down, gave you time to clean up and advised they would clear everything out that was left over if you didn't clean it up yourselves, and now you're whining because you did nothing? It's called consequences. Most people learn this early in life. Really, grow up....
I wasn't there, but I've put up and taken down an encampment twenty times. When the NYPD showed up in the middle of the night, they did not allow enough time for everything to be removed.
It is no accident that the media people were kept blocks away, and those who made it into the area were manhandled, with one being thrown on the ground.
There is video of a cop using a sawzall, which is a demolition tool for destroying house walls. Everything in that park was brought in by hand, it could have been taken out by hand on the carts the cops had. The only reason to cut anything up was to destroy it, not to remove it.
You didn't clear it up, therefore it was trash. They were good enough to remove it and let you claim items you left behind, rather than taking the whole lot to the nearest trash tip. Get over it. This whining is doing nothing for your movement.
Ditto
Brilliant. When you know you're wrong, and can't even come up with a lame ad-hominem attack, this is what is left. Moron.
By far the greatest crime, this will never be forgotten
The NYPD gave you all warning that they were shutting you down, gave you time to clean up and advised they would clear everything out that was left over if you didn't clean it up yourselves, and now you're whining because you did nothing? It's called consequences. Most people learn this early in life. Really, grow up. They should have taken everything to a tip instead of being considerate enough to let you come back and claim it. Pathetic.
Wrong again. It doesn't matter if they were donated, they have an inherent market value dumba$$. The park was not destroyed, and it was kept clean by the OWS. The books WERE destroyed. The only pathetic character in this story is you, for thinking that a "tough love" indifferent approach means squat in the long run. The decision to use city funds to interact at all with the OWS crowd is a decision made by Bloomberg. I think if you asked all the taxpayers in a city in which 71% of the people support the OWS you'd find a different story. Try turning the page when you learn to read and respect literature. Ape.
Why don't you think about the consequences of doing nothing, or doing only what the police and mayor Bloomberg allow? They would have all protests out of sight, out of mind, where they will change nothing. Change is what we want. Therefore, we are occupying a public space and using our first amendment rights. It's easy for me to believe that people like you would rather protest some dirty occupiers on the streets than real, systemic problems in our government and republic. Sad, but easy to believe.
I'm talking about this bs with the books. Please try to keep up.
Now, I have another reason to hate Bloomberg. It wasn't enough for him to personally concentrate more wealth than all but 22 human beings out of 7,000,000,000 worldwide. On the 15th of November, he abused his bought and paid for authority by trashing books, documents, and free speech. Some of which certainly addressed the profound economic injustice he represents.
That's the best I can do. But there really are no words to fully express how I feel about this. At least none that I can post.
Thought this quote was appropriate:
“Dort, wo man Bücher verbrennt, verbrennt man am Ende auch Menschen" "Where they burn books, they will also burn people." Heinrich Heine
Ok so do you people support what the U.S. stands for or not?
Please check out Change.org and sign some petitions , I have 2 petitions, the first petition is ; Tell Congress we did not elect Norquist to speak for us , and 2 is ; A lobbyist holds America hostage , Please help me bring him down , tell your friends , THANK YOU !!!!!!
Consider signing these 2 petitions:
https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions#!/petition/condemn-disproportionate-violence-used-police-opposing-occupy-movement-and-stand-free-speech/rlQ5mHYZ
https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions#!/petition/make-statement-condemning-use-violence-against-peaceful-protestors-united-states/886P20th
Hi im darren check out my blog http://youngphilosopher89.wordpress.com its left wing reflecting my anarcho-syndicalist views
the only candidate that backs you.......you mock funny
http://www.change.org/petitions/mayor-michael-bloomberg-stop-the-rudin-luxury-condo-conversion-plan sign the petition! Please sign! Our Nanny mayor is concerned with 2nd hand smoke, fat but when comes to not having a hospital Mike Bloomberg’s message is drop dead!
Bloomberg defends indefensible http://abcnews.go.com/m/story?id=14957335
I sincerley hope that these books were not destroyed by bloomberg and company. Books are scared. Please let this NOT be true!
Hows about this for something for "Occupy" to work on?
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/11/23/1039419/-Malaysian-tribunal-finds-George-Bush-and-Tony-Blair-guilty-of-war-crimes?via=blog_1
is there anyway to get notification of these events earlier?
A song for OWS... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FM3KR9dEOk
Was there any rare books destroyed?
this brought to mind an old news clip from the thirties showing nazis throwing books into a fire.
how could bloomBERG not see this before it happened ???
No different than me saying all you protestors remind me of nazis murdering Jewish people. Clearly there is no comparison. No books were burned, and nazis certainly did not offer for people to come claim the books they left behind!
The NYPD gave you all warning that they were shutting you down, gave you time to clean up and advised they would clear everything out that was left over if you didn't clean it up yourselves, and now you're whining because you did nothing? It's called consequences. Most people learn this early in life. Really, grow up.
Nazi book burning my @ss.. no wonder everyone thinks you're nothing but a bunch of lazy entitlement brats.
The fact that you dismiss such a heinous thing so casually simply shows what an unmitigated penis you are. This is the kind of behaviour that sets legal precedent for worse things to happen again and again. And if you don't think it could happen here, you are a dolt, or you already think your reward will come from the "winning" side. How about this - Jimmy44 my @ss - make fun of this bastard whenever and wherever you see his posts or any posts that even remotely sound like his. If he shows calm, rational dialogue, an actual interest in human rights, or a modicum of compassion then treat him with respect, otherwise - play the dumba$$ at his own game, or just ignore him. He's a nobody with no real opinion - just a bunch of meaningless noise that dribbles out of his mouth and into his fingers and into the typewriter. Then mommy comes and wipes it off.
I think there would be more understanding if you provided some clarification to your position. Do you feel the destruction of property and books was appropriate for a violation of park rules? Also, is there a way to reconcile such policy with the 5th Amendment of the Constitution?
"Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."
As MANY have pointed out, millions of books are thrown out every year, because nobody wants them. You left these items behind and did not take them with you. Be thankful the police have given you an opportunity to reclaim the items you discarded. And speaking of destruction, how about the banks that have been smashed up by OWS protestors, businesses that have lost trade because of your actions, the thousands who have been delayed trying to get to work because of your actions. Perhaps you should take a look at what you are doing before pointing the finger at others who have to clean up your mess.
Would you be OK with someone going into your house and taking something of yours, just because "millions" are thrown out each year? The arguments of you trolls are so pathetically illogical.
Going into your house? Are you frigging kidding me? Total fail at analogy by the moronic 'SwissMiss'. For a start, as OWS has been pointing out for months, the park is most definitely NOT your private home. This is a public space so there is NO comparison in the way you are trying to make. Secondly, OWS left the used books there - that by law is abandonment of property. OWS were given prior warning to pack up, and chose not to, so for ONCE in your miserable whining entitlement self-centered life, take some responsibility for your actions. OMG you are sickening.
As many have pointed out, hundreds of trolls are paid by political forces to act like dicks and try to raise emotional levels and tie people up with arguing so that they're not out actually engaging in protesting activities. They have a pathetic need to undermine all activity that does not fit in with the hands of the masters which nuzzle his chin and feed him his treats, but beat him when he is bad.
Oh, and so what if people throw out books no one wants - that has nothing to do with this at all, so bad analogy before you call bad analogy on the comments by Swiss Miss below. If you are such a retard that you have no idea how heinous the destruction of these books are then I suggest you go burn your Dolls in the oven and see how you feel about that. If it feels good, I'd go see about joining some very special groups your masters will tell you about.
Those are all very good points that you have brought up. However, I think it is important to distinguish actions performed by law enforcement agencies and private actions done by people. The laws and the implementation of laws is restrained by the Constitution, whereas private actions are not.
Do you agree that the police should implement the law in accordance with the 5th Amendment?
Nice try to twist this, but you fail. The situation is a very simple one. Read what I wrote. Clean up after yourself. This is also something most people learn from a young age.
Duhhh...dis is wot I rote...can not answer yor well put queschun, so I haf to rezort to ignohring it...
Let me try to clarify with an example application of the rule you have provided. If the police decided to crush and dispose of a car that was double-parked and violating traffic rules, would you support this action?
The trolls NEVER will get it, because they don't want to.
Again, not a valid comparison - and you are about the 5th person to make totally unrelated attempts at analogy that are so ridiculous that it only goes to prove just how extremely closed-minded you are. Is it really so hard for you to admit that for once you might actually be wrong about something? Read up on abandonment laws and what qualifies as abandoned property. This situation could easily be covered by it, but the NYPD were kind enough to offer people to come claim these items.
I won't even bother to address the pathetic SwissMiss whose mind locked shut so hard that all she can do is call anyone who doesn't agree with her a troll. Seems to be a very common trait here.
It appears that according to the law, the books would be the property of those that are keeping them. This implies that the 5th Amendment remains intact.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost,_mislaid,_and_abandoned_property
"Abandoned property
Property is generally deemed to have been abandoned if it is found in a place where the true owner likely intended to leave it, but is in such a condition that it is apparent that he or she has no intention of returning to claim it. Abandoned property generally becomes the property of whoever should find it and take possession of it first, although some states have enacted statutes under which certain kinds of abandoned property – usually cars, wrecked ships and wrecked aircraft – escheat, meaning that they become the property of the state.[10]"
Exactly, so those books belong to the NYPD, and they are graciously donating them back to OWS. Isn't that nice of them! You should learn to be more thankful - the whole entitlement schtick does not encourage charity most of the time.
Are you saying that the librarians and people of OWS had no intention of reclaiming their books?
I would suggest that the very fact that they had a dedication section of the camp for books, a system of keeping track of them, and numerous readers would indicate that they did have intention to claim their property. Thus, under common law, it would not be considered abandoned when the camp was raided any more than books in a normal library.
Once again, notice was given in advance to pack up belongings as they were going to be cleared out. They chose not to pack up, ergo they chose to abandon their used books when it came time to leave. This is very very very simple. You inability to grasp this speaks volumes of your lack of intellect.
I think your argument ignores the 5th Amendment. The police giving a warning is not "due process of law". In this country, legislative, executive, and judicial functions are separated.
To give the police the power to give warning and then destroy property if that warning is not obeyed would be to give them full executive, judicial, and legislative powers. There is no law saying the police can clear a park with a warning, there was no judge finding these people guilty, and yet they were removed and their possessions taken.
Mr. Bloomberg can say that the right to assembly does not extend to camping in parks, but that is not his decision to make as a member of the executive. That is for the judicial to decide.
Illegal assembly. They can do that, and you know it well - and if you don't. you're an even bigger idiot than I thought. You're wrong, you lose, deal with it.
There is no unlawful assembly unless there is a demonstrated intent to commit violence. What else do you have?
http://law.onecle.com/new-york/penal/PEN0240.10_240.10.html " § 240.10 Unlawful assembly. A person is guilty of unlawful assembly when he assembles with four or more other persons for the purpose of engaging or preparing to engage with them in tumultuous and violent conduct likely to cause public alarm, or when, being present at an assembly which either has or develops such purpose, he remains there with intent to advance that purpose. Unlawful assembly is a class B misdemeanor."
See - the "you know you're wrong" fallacy - this guy is full of them. They're NOT wrong - you deal with it my sycophantic friend.
Seems we hit the ceiling on replies. We've already seen violence and intentional damage of property in many Occupy protests, therefore the precedence has been set and it is reasonable to expect more of the same, ergo, unlawful assembly. Sorry, you fail again - or are you going to deny there has been any violence or intentional damage in any Occupy protests now, LOL.
Nope. Trolls are properly defined as trolls on here. YOUR arguments have been full of ad hominem attacks, straw man fallacies, propositional fallacies, the repetitive argument fallacy (a favourite of idiot Faux news watchers) and loads of others. You refuse to recognise even the most basic of premises of the OWS because it does not fit into YOUR views. You are like a mirror of yourself, and why you support such stentorian and totalitarian tactics when actually coming out of your little offices and meeting with the OWS to discuss problems would have sufficed simply shows the piece of crap that you and the policies you support are.
I purchased the book The American Republic Manifestum from Amazon. When I got it I of course read it. If these words are true, then the author" An American" will start a revolution in America not seen since 1770. This is bigger than any protest I have ever seen. The rest of the world should read this book, because it could happen in your country as well. If the old America falls with this new republic then we all are in for one hell of a ride...http://american-republic.org/
Let them trash this book... We all should read this to get a since of direction, or we will continue to wander around with very small battles won.
You do not belong on the street. Occupy a building. Pick one. Any one. Occupy it. Change one building. Claim one building. Change it from what it is now, to something useful and beneficial to all. Some floors can house people, some floors can be turned into hydroponic gardens. Start building a real city out of the garbage that our parents have left laying around.
The reason protesters take to the streets is because the a$$wipes that own the media will do everything they can to avoid exposure. This is the machievellian spirit in politics that should be crushed as ruthlessly as it is applied. Ideas require exposure for people to be competently informed and for others to mull them over. If it's not in your face, the opiates of bread and circuses will slowly suck your soul away. If you force it underground - that's when you make criminals out of people. Christianity was started by 11 men from a middle-eastern subject country. Ponder that for a bit.
I agree with all that. I simply mean that everyone has the right to a safe home or, if in a city, their own safe room to sleep and eat. Every person. We should all claim one. There are plenty of empty homes in the country and empty misused buildings in the city. Occupy them, take care of them, and build a life around them.
Best you pay for that building or you and your possessions are going to be thrown out.
No. You refuse to leave. You claim your home and be prepared to die to defend it. You will only further the cause by being totally sincere. You are not sincere enough to gain respect in anyone's eyes until you are willing to let your body die for what you believe in.
Oh really, so you would respect me if I walk in to your parents house and 'claim' it for myself? How about you - do you have a car? Maybe I'll claim that too, because if you have assets and I don't, clearly you don't deserve them. Apparently you will respect me for it too! Yeah right.
They were claiming the park because they were jealous of the company that owned it? The occupation is for public areas, because we pay the taxes for it to be. The park WAS privately owned, but this does not matter in cases of first amendment rights. No one is trying to take anyone else's property you stupid goon. Go try to fool someone else.
You missed the point as usual, and everything flew way over your head again. It is perfectly fine for american victims to claim an unused building supposedly owned by some thief. Big difference between liberating buildings in the city to be used properly, and invading a one family home for no reason. I wouldn't expect you to understand but, hey, I am sitting here disabled with nothing to do. If I could work, I would be working right now. What is your excuse for wasting time posting idiot messages on the internet?
No, YOU missed the point. You seem to think it's ok if you 'liberate' a building, but not anybody else. Simple as that. As usual for OWS members, it's do as I say, not as I do. Bunch of hypocrites.
jimmy, it is one thing to own productive capital; it is another thing entirely to be hording unproductive capital. if you have ownership of unproductive capital, why are you not utilizing it? maybe Adam is smarter than you, and he will utilize the capital more appropriately. just a though...
No I am not the one who needs to liberate the buildings that were bought with stolen wealth. The people on the street do. I am disabled and I myself need to organize an assault on social security. For me personally, that is what makes me a victim. Besides all the other environmental poisons. The criminal government wants to just let me die now that I can't work. So are you going to answer my question? Why are you sitting around taunting disabled people? Why can't you go get a job? Why can't you get out and do something?
Oh I'm taunting disabled people now am I? Firstly, how would I know you were disabled until you told me, and secondly, what has your disability got to do with people 'liberating' buildings just because they think the person who owns it is 'too wealthy' and therefore must be a thief. One has NOTHING to do with the other! I wonder how often you use that line when you can't win an argument. Listen buddy, I am aware it can't be easy for you, but when you start using a disability as a defense for a totally unrelated argument like you just did, you are not going to get anywhere with me or many others. You do yourself and other disabled people a disservice speaking like that. BTW I have a job. Back on topic, your argument now seems to be that buildings are bought with stolen wealth therefore you should be given them. Using your own flawed logic, if you then have a building that you didn't pay for, it would seem to me the thief is YOU. And one last thing - if I call you a name like 'moron', it's because you earned it - disability has nothing to do with it. How pathetic using it like that.. disgusting. You should be ashamed of yourself.
We paid for them. Someday you will be one of us. You will lose everything you worked for, and you will be told to go die by the government you paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to. Then you will remember how you put people down for being victims, and you will wish you had fought when you had the chance. I feel sorry for you and all the other sheep who still have their eyes closed.
Hey genius, read the thread - I didn't put you down for being a victim - YOU did. And you continue with the blaming everyone else and with the self pity bs, having absolutely no idea who you are talking to. I've lost everything not once but twice - not from anything I did wrong, but because of the greed of others. This is to the point where I was living in a car for a while. Each time I worked my way back up without expecting handouts from others. I felt a bit sorry for myself for a short while, but realized quickly enough that it got me nowhere. You need to stop feeling sorry for yourself and work on the idea the glass is half full, not half empty. You can't change the past, but you can change the future.
Awwww...all 32,650 protesters during the march after the encampment was wiped out were ALL a bunch a lazy folk who want to steal my stuff! WAHHHH!!! No one could POSSIBLY feel that to change the system is more important, because marching all the way to DC shows nothing about commitment - standing in inclimate weather shows nothing about commitment - standing up peacefully to a system which will most likely blow us all up before it admits it is wrong shows NO BALLS AT ALL. THESE PEOPLE WOULD WORK THEIR ASSES OFF IF THERE WERE JOBS, BUT THE REASONS FOR THE UNEMPLOYMENT SITUATION SEEM TO CONVENIENTLY SLIP PEOPLE'S MIND. I have nothing but pity for those who willingly lie about what the OWS wants, who it is made up of, and why it is righteous. At least they're not sitting down and taking it up the A$$ like you are.
I am not in self pity I was just stating the reason that I have the time to waste posting stupid crap on the net. What is your excuse? Why aren't you out there slaving? So you know how dishonest this country is, you have experienced it first hand, and you still do not support rebellion? How many times do you need to lose everything and live in your car before you realize that this is a criminal system? Imagine it you were in too much pain to get in the car. You wouldn't be making a comeback.
Did they burn the books on the square?
No, but you'd think they did by the way these idiots are going on about it.
Poor idiots who respect things like - other people and their views with calm and rational dialogue, a fair representative democracy which answers to the people alone which corporations are NOT, an appreciation of different ideas and the authors of those ideas and community demonstration where such ideas - in the form of art, books, media, etc. - are respected and venrated and held dear. yeah, those idiots.
Cretin.
Don't you have something better to do with your life than to denigrate others who actually care about our world? I feel sorry for you.
Don't you have something better to do with your life than make up lies and denigrate others who actually care about truth as opposed to your version which is only truth if it fits your agenda. I feel sorry for you, walking around your entire life unable to separate truth from fiction, even when you don't like that truth.
All truth fits somebody's agenda - you are merely a paranoid skunk, spraying your stink because you can't possibly think outside of your little paranoid political box. THEY'RE ALL OUT TO GET YOU JIMMY!!! THE REDS ARE HIDING IN THE TENTS!!! GO GET 'EM BUDDY! SHOOT THEM COMMIES AND SOCIALISTS. Lies? Get real. There is some truth the OWS doesn't like? No no no - let ME tell you what you're about to say - JOBS! GO GET JOBS YOU WORTHLESS HIPPIES! STOP STEALING STUFF YOU DIDN'T EARN!!!
Ayn Rand sucks Machiavelli's schlong in hell. And so do you.
can someone give the police flowers? I'm serious.
Wondering why you left these books behind if they were so important to you.
My understanding is that the NYPD came to the camp during the night and aggressively forced the campers out, in which they had to leave the books behind. They didn't choose to leave them behind.
No answer, why didn't you take care of your possessions if they were important to you and move them for safe keeping. Why aren't you responsible.
Why didn't President Bush come and hold the levies up in New Orleans with his bare hands?
Cretin. I hope Bloomberg's goons rush into your home and take things that are importnat to you even if they are important to nobody else, like your complete Strawberry Shortcake DVD collection.
In the middle of the night, when you are unprepared. And after you have preciously packed those luscious little girl cartoons you love so much I hope they tell you you can go get them, and when you do - they will have been destroyed, except for a few copies of Gandhi, which you will not admit is yours, but burn later on out of spite.
sigh. leaving unclaimed property lying about in a public park, sanitation picks it up. Apply the real world to your little world. You left your stuff laying around and refused to clean it up.
I used to be part of OWS and sat in a park for 5 weeks. But the distance between reality and the world OWS is creating in its bubble grows wider every day.
They didn't choose to leave the books there. They were forced to leave them there.... forced by the NYPD.
Why the hell do you people keep trying to gain some kind of position of authority about this? You are bilge rats hiding behind the anonymity of the internet so you can spout out your vitriol with impunity - fair enough. But about 90 percent of all the things I have have read in these forums that has been anti-OWS or right wing paid trolls have been consistently spiteful and stupid. Those books were not a bag of clothes left behind on a park bench - the people were forced out by paid thugs in the middle of the night, the press was kept from seeing what was going on, and the tents and books taken - gone through, and partially destroyed like out of an old Nazi movie or Bradbury's Farenheiot 451 novel. This is not something to simply dismiss like a dickhead, this is REAL FU&*ING OPPRESSION. Do you have a heart? Cos if you do you're an idiot - if you don't at least I know you're just acting like your lizardy-selves and just can't help yourselves from trying to feel superior by spouting out Rush Limburger-isms word for word.
Mad, just because you're mad about someone's facts that don't fit in your opinion. I left Occupy, mostly because it continuously grows more violent (bamboo spears now) but also for this ridiculous unreality. Nobody forced members to leave their books in a public park. Nobody. Your stuff belongs in your own house and probably mommy told you this a long time ago, but if you leave your things outside, then that's what happens.
Then by your logic you shouldn't cry when someone randomly blows up your car. I'm not saying that should happen, or condone the activity, But the same right you have to park your car somewhere is the right that people have to assemble and protest, and wouldn't it be nice if both were left alone?
Bloomberg and the NYPD had the capacity to carefully collect and organize the things they confiscated from the people of OWS. On some deep (perhaps subconscious) level they know the world as they have known it has come to an end. For this reason their responses will probably continue to be mean spirited at best but more likely ruthless, violent and oppressive. Not to mention stupid.
If you follow King Bloomberg's foot-print in this event you will get in "Gleichschaltung" and Nazi Book Burning. His final goal is founding another Auschwitz in Manhattan with his NYPD "storm troopers". (from now on NYPD stands for: Nazi Yahtzee Party Dictatorial)
http://mayorbloombergkingofnewyork.blogspot.com/2011/11/mayor-mike-bloomberg-nypd-press-re-ed.html This new YouTube is called Mayor Bloomberg NYPD re-ed of Michael Powell who wrote a piece in The NY Times critical of NYPD. I also refer to the books on this post....check it out. Thanks.
I wonder when there will be legal action about this. Both for this, and the medical tent: there were confidential patient medical records in there as well as valuable medical equipment and supplies, 1000s upon 1000s of $$s worth.
People that were present during the raid should start organizing themselves to testify in court. I know I will be.
The destruction of the library reminds me of the book burnings of the nazis during WWII.
The destruction of the library reminds me of the book burning by the nazis during WWII.
someone should do a video juxtaposition.
Seriously? Next you'll be claiming this protest was more important to our history than 911 - oh wait, someone has already done that. I didn't notice any books being burned by the way, did you? You comment reminds me of a sick bitter closed-minded little troll.
Just when I think this movement has real stuff to say and do, this? Really, now come on. If some tossed books are what you are focusing energy on, then I'm back to square one in my feeling about this movement: there is real suffering on this planet and it isn't happening in America.
There is no comparison in a house of horrors. An injury to one is an injury to all. If we can clean up our own house, then perhaps we can turn to helping alleviate some of the suffering in other houses.
Please sign https://www.petitionbuzz.com/petitions/impeachbloomberg
Morpheus says to Neo, “All I’m offering is the truth, nothing more.” Are you ready for the truth? Will you accept the pill? If you think so, read:
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excellent web site
Interesting web site.
Will this event be livestreamed?
At the very least Mayor Bloomberg should personally make restitution, pay late fees , and be denied a Library Card for a period to be determined by The Library.
http://awfullibrarybooks.net/
take off your sandals and put on some combat boots. You cant call this a revolution if you're not willing to go to war. Your camp looks like your at burning man. You laugh and giggle in the vids you put on Youtube. You babble nonsense to people with cameras instead of utilizing some kind of PR strategy. you fail to accept some clear realities about the 21st century. I mean this constructively. I hope you can take it that way. The widespread disease of corruption is crippling us and we have to do something about it. Getting honest with our OWN SELVES might be a start.
OH NO... you got your books thrown away... come ON. Boo Hoo. What freaking kind of revolutionaries are you anyways?? What do you expect?? You have no idea what they have in mind for your future. This kind of crying only further alienates you and furtherly illustrates your impotence. I SOOOO wanted to get with this movement, but just cant except that you have been so co-opted by morons. Kumbaya is going to get sung at your funeral when the Redneck FlashMobs start (they have facebook too) come and kill you poor saps... while the cops stand back and giggle.
Storm-Troopers destroying books - Imagine my shock.
I believe its just the beginning. How did Hitler destroy Germany's democracy and seize absolute ... www.joanfrancis.net/.../How-did-Hitler-destroy-Germanys-democrac
reminds me of the conquistadors who rolled up and burned ALL the Mayan codices.only 4 left in existence today..VIVA LA HUELGA!!
You remind me of all the nazis who shut their minds to anything but what they were told by their leaders.
Ad hominem abuse in 3 ..2 ..1
http://suzannahbtroy.blogspot.com/2011/11/bloomberg-nypd-book-burners-fahrenheit.html After the books are thrown in dumpster are they taking to dump and burned?
http://mayorbloombergkingofnewyork.blogspot.com/2011/11/mike-bloomberg-lies-to-himself-on-his.html Mike Bloomberg lies to Mike Bloomberg.
Please make signs “Rudin Profits People Die” We need a hospital. stand out side Rudin sales offices or as close to it as NYPD will alllow -- 120 west 12 th street or stand on either side of scaffolding
hold signs so 1 percent are away when they go shopping for their luxury condos thank you http://youtu.be/xkGvTLJloMk
In the early 1970s a musical genre was born in the crime-ridden neighborhoods of the South Bronx. Gifted teenagers with plenty of imagination but little cash began to forge a new style from spare parts. Hip-hop, as it was then known, was a product of pure streetwise ingenuity; extracting rhythms and melodies from existing records and mixing them up with searing poetry chronicling life in the 'hood, hip-hop spilled out of the ghetto.From the housing projects hip-hop poured onto the streets and subways, taking root in Bronx clubs like the Savoy Manor Ballroom, Ecstasy Garage, Club 371, The Disco Fever, and the T-Connection. From there it spread downtown to the Renaissance Ballroom, Hotel Diplomat, the Roxy, and The Fun House. It migrated to Los Angeles, where a whole West Coast hip-hop scene developed, sporting its own musical idiosyncrasies, its own wild style. Through television shows like BET's Rap City and Yo! MTV Raps and a succession of Hollywood movies, hip-hop gained millions of new fans across America, in places far removed from the genre's Bronx roots. It spread to Europe, Asia, Africa, and nearly every continent on Earth, gaining more cultural significance as the years rolled by. Today it is one of the most potent and successful musical forms of the 20th Century. Hip-hop is the voice of a generation that refused to be silenced by urban poverty, a local phenomenon fueled with so much passion and truth it could not help but reach the entire world. Like every musical genre that came before, hip-hop has its pioneers, artists who were essential in defining and popularizing the art form. This CD series showcases those legendary artists -- their songs and their enormous talents -- who created what today is known as rap. The History Of Rap. How can we truthfully tell this story? There are so many different versions. Who is correct? There were approximately ten different pioneers, each of whom stakes a claim as the originator: Pete DJ Jones, Kool DJ Herc, DJ Hollywood, Eddie Cheeba, "Love Bug" Starski, Grand Master Flash, Afrika Bambaataa, Kurtis Blow, the Sugarhill Gang, Run DMC. The names fit together like pieces to a puzzle. And as we assemble the puzzle, we have to give equal props to all, because it is the individual contributions, pieced together, that explain the true history of this billion-dollar-a-year phenomenon.
Lets just hope that OWS doesn't end up with a section that is the equivalent of these corporate "hip hop" artists that are played on commercial radio--that claim that money is all that matters.
http://knowledge321.wordpress.com/
Chapter nine burn that one Bloomberg...
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As Morpheus says, "All I'm offering is the truth, nothing more…"
Welcome to the real world.
Wait, so the NYPD gave you all warning that they were shutting you down, gave you time to clean up and advised they would clear everything out that was left over if you didn't clean it up yourselves, and now you're whining because you did nothing? It's called consequences. Most people learn this early in life. Really, grow up.
In October I predicted OWS would end before Christmas. Then I came across the OWS plans to block the NY Stock Exchange and to disrupt NY City subway service on November 17th. That's when it was clear the fun would end before Thanksgiving. It has.
It's unfortunate when people who want to protest believe millions of non-protesters are sympathetic to their cause and their actions. Millions may have liked something about OWS. INasmuch as nothing about OWS was defined, everyone could make up his own definition.
But when OWS announced action plans to disrupt the NYSE and the subways, the make-believe was over and the city had no choice but to disperse the festering crowd at Zuccotti Park. Had the OWS stuck with protesting from within the park, the crowd would most likely still be there, banging drums and operating its Think Tank.
The Youtube video of the cops disassembling the OWS library shows cops taking down the tenting while picking up boxes of books. There are no shots of cops destroying books. Not that it matters. The mass of free books landing on the streets of NY City every day would quickly fill Zuccotti Park.
The protestors should read some library books. Especially books on economics and finance. They made it clear they know nothing about either subject.
The books were destroyed/disposed of later, Einstein.
Yeah, that's why they're being carted around like a traveling art show today.
800 books are usable. 2,900 still are missing. This is out of about 4,000 books. So, where are the majority of the books?
Th random books on the street are not the same as carefully selected material.
As for books on economics, you can read something by Nassim Taleb, who pretty much predicted this mess and pretty much takes the stance that OWS does.
Books on the street are exactly the same as the books in the OWS library. The country is overloaded with books. People throw out books on every subject every day. Or, they give those books to Housing Works Bookstore.
As for Taleb, who cares?
Wrong. A lot of books sitting on the street are things like the 2007 Zagat Guide and corny (no offense to corn) viking novels. Not all, of course.
Most of the books that I saw in the OWS library were relevant, and of pretty high quality. Books by Chris Hedges for instance. I have never seen a Hedges book on the street.
Well, you said they should read a book about finance, and Taleb knows it well, and earned millions just to prove it, so I find it relevant. Nassim Taleb is probably the most important writer in that genre. "The Black Swan" is a good non-technical (for the most part) book for those unlike noslappz who might be interested.
Here's a tidbit for you. Taleb's Black Swan theory boils down to refusing to give mortgage loans to people with low credit ratings, questionable job prospects and NO downpayment money. He's merely stated the obvious.
But the government, in its insane desire to practice social engineering, decided to throw out the rule book for prudent lending. By doing that -- starting with the Community Reinvestment Act of 1978, and the eventual reduction of standards at Fannie and Freddie -- we gave ourselves a crisis. Blame Washington.
I blame myself actually. I helped create this shit.
PS Sorry, that's not what Taleb's Black Swan theory boils down to, though I have no problem with people that are not going to be able to pay their mortgages not being given house loans.
Totally agree - this is just more propaganda from OWS and most of the general public can see right through it now. The NYPD gave you all warning that they were shutting you down, gave you time to clean up and advised they would clear everything out that was left over if you didn't clean it up yourselves, and now you're whining because you did nothing? It's called consequences. Most people learn this early in life. Really, grow up. They should have taken everything to a tip instead of being considerate enough to let you come back and claim it. Entitlement brats make me SICK.
Do you mean "grow up'' and get real about having no stake in the future and get real about handing over even more power and wealth to the 1%. Do you mean that mass democratic protest with a highly diverse grass roots base is 'whining''? Do you beleive that the most disadvataged of the 99% are there because of çonsequences of their own actions and choices? Do you beleive that most most advantaged of the 99% have no right of protest for THE cause of the day? Maybe sir if you read a little history you will grow up yourself.
Yes, grow up. This was about some donated used books that were left behind. This is not oppression or fascism or nazi book burning as some are claiming - this is people not cleaning up their mess and others having to do it for them - stop making this into something it isn't. This is ridiculous.
I'll bet OWS has no record of its book inventory. Thus, claims of the number of books in the library are questionable. Inasmuch as I visited the Zuccotti Park library, it's my view that the number of books was far less than 5,000. Given the space constraints at the site, it's likely the true number was closer to 1,000.
But what difference does it make?. The books were free, and there are an endless supply of more free books to replace those that Norman Siegel is whining about.
In NY City so many people have so many books that they regularly leave them outside for others to take.
We do in fact have a record of them. The librarian volunteers kept a catalogue online.
http://www.librarything.com/catalog/OWSLibrary/
Housing Works Bookstore may have had a list of its donated books. Meanwhile, Housing Works announced it would replace all the confiscated books with more books. But then decided against delivering more books because there was no address to which they could be sent.
In other words, even to the donor, replacing the books could have been done with the snap of the fingers, Hardly a sign of a society under the oppressive bootheel of totalitarianism.
It seems you and the OWS people dream of being in a dictatorship so you can see yourselves as freedom fighters. Too bad. Our nearly unlimited freedoms make your wish an impossibility. Move to Saudi Arabia, Cuba or North Korea. Fight those governments -- if you dare.
Your missing the point.
Trolls always miss the point.
The point is rather simple. The books themselves are meaningless. There are millions of free books floating around NY City and the nation. If a few are damaged, ruined, lost or destroyed it doesn't matter. There are 100 replacements for every trashed volume. Wake up. Try reading. How many books can you download from Google at no cost? We're drowning in the written word. But too few people are reading. Like you, they just complain.
Would you say that if you heard about somebody shoplifting from a mall bookstore? I mean, one lousy book stolen and the police would be demanding somebody be hauled off to jail, where they might remain for months.
Locked up for months? For shoplifting a single book? Where do you get your ideas?
First, when shoplifters are caught by store security, the security people generally recover the merchandise and do little else. The police are not interested in arresting people for shoplifting an item worth as little as a book. Moreover, have you read any Police Blotter reports about shoplifting in bookstores?
Did Borders go bankrupt because shoplifters cleaned out its inventory? No. It went bankrupt because too few people were shopping for books. Meanwhile the OWS library was not "owned" by anyone. I suppose if people visiting Zuccotti Park wanted to take books home, they could. Who would have stopped them? Thus, I have no doubt some books did leave the library as free souvenirs.
According to the American Bar Association you can be jailed for life for shoplifting $100 worth of stuff ( http://www.americanbar.org/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/irr_hr_winter04_shoplifting.html ) Admittedly many people do work the system effectively, especially if they have legal help. It's getting hard to search for things nowadays - Google seems to get worse and worse every day, and its competitors seem to be identical - but I found one entertaining site with anecdotes ( http://trafficcourtpros.com/blog/?p=1140 )
Yeah, the ABA says a lot of things. If a shoplifter has a prior record, he might be facing some serious jail time. But, as we know, shoplifters do not receive long prison sentences. Moreover, stupid criminals do not steal books, and most criminals are stupid.
I got caught shoplifiting 1.96 $ worth of cheese when I was homeless in 1991. I spent three days in jail, had to pay 360 dollar fine, and got 1 year probation. Now - the f^@kface douchebag who's lost their empathy because of decisions they've made in their life to join the ranks of the "powerful" who thinks the whole gaddamn world is going to fall apart if the letter of the law isn't followed to the T, (and who's attitude is clearly a front for simply trying to maintain their position at all costs since they are paranoid as hell because they achieve most of it by sucking the life out of the world to it's cost) clearly would say in this situation "Well, I guess you'll never steal cheese again" - cos that's the mindset of bully apes who think that Skinnerian tactics and might makes right gives them the leeway to use overkill to make a point which is not honourable or brave or, actually, righteous. The person who says - damn kid - you were homeless and had to forage for food by stealing? That's sad. Let's change THE ROOT OF THE PROBLEM that caused that situation. The a$$face says "You needed a job, that'll take care of that." The person with a clue to real solutions says "Why were you unable to get a job?"
Bottom line - they will and DO arrest anybody for whatever reason they want. EVEN IF IT GETS THROWN OUT, they have cost you and taxpayers time and money. They have arrested your development (if you have any goals) and fleeced taxpayers for cash to feed in to their oh so starving state funded bank accounts since they don't seem to be getting enough taxpayer money to create new ways to spy on them, so they require some of your income to boot. Being given a choice between a job or no shelter, clothing, or food is NOT any kind of choice at all. It is, in fact, extortion. Play our game. Dress the way we want you to. Work for less than nothing to carry on a shi%%y experience of the 80 or so years you've got here while those who play our little game get let in to more and more luxury. It is why there NEEDS to be a net, which make sense from a governing sense, but - of course - not from a business sense, even though the 7.7 trillion dollars (nearly half our entire GDP) given to banks through the Federal reserve could - one might think - feed a few people or generate jobs.
Chalk and cheese. Theft is a crime moron. It's not about the book, it's about the action.
So is assault, but when NYPD white shirts assault civilians they lose vacation days rather than being charged with a crime. It's about the cognitive dissonance.
Bwahahaha! You're calling cognitive dissonance now? Now THERE is some irony. Brilliant. 10 points for humor.
Theft is a crime, unless you do it outdoors?
No crime is crime when you and I do it, but when people who support the system steal trillions of dollars it's okay. You see mserfas, some people can't see outside of a part of their brain that sees the entire world through a lens of political agenda. Even though Freud clearly noted why sometimes a cigar is simply a cigar. There is no such innocence in politics. Therefore, if you believe in America, you must buy in to America, and support it's causes, even if they are heinous and against all principles and conscience. Because of COURSE anything you do that is illegal is NOT illegal to the "authorities" because they are doing it in the name of keeping our great country secure, while you must OBVIOUSLY be some kind of book reading dissident. So all you have to do is call such terrible actions other names. The people who carry these lies and spread them are either 1. Agents, meaning they can simply be someone who has grown up most likely with mommy and daddy thinking those same lies and now can't see outside of the box, or 2. They are completely aware of what bullshit is going on, but support the side which uses dishonourable tactics to support and maintain dishonorable agendas because they are either full of hate themselves and think they're going to get rewarded by playing the "winning" side's game - or they are simply being paid by other paranoid political forces. Don't even bother talking to these folk, because all of your rights will be dismissed callously and casually while the illegalities of your actions fighting things that should be illegal in the first place (if you have any real sense of a conscience or social justice) is what will be focused on instead. Is an a$$hole bully going to admit they're wrong? Not when they can just beat you up and make your life miserable or, in this case, talk a bunch of crap whilst hiding behind the internet. But what the hell - if they can get enough bull$hit flowing through these forums maybe it will make it harder for you to have a decent and rational conversation about solutions to the problems which plague us because all of your time is spent responding to the callous disregard spouted out by those who have lost the ability to sympathise with anything except their viewpoint. Oh, and here's the bonus - after a bully beats you up - if you fight back, they will try to beat you up some more, because fighting back is just WRONG. So after you correctly identify the fascist nature of many of these f^%kers, they will for sure turn around and start calling YOU the entitled one or the Nazi or whatever. Define people by what they do, not by what they say.
There was no theft, and you'd have to be a complete imbecile to not know the difference. The NYPD gave you all warning that they were shutting you down, gave you time to clean up and advised they would clear everything out that was left over if you didn't clean it up yourselves, and now you're whining because you did nothing? It's called consequences. Most people learn this early in life. You even have an opportunity to reclaim what you left behind. Really, grow up.
OWS may have had warning, and options about what to do, but the homeless encampments raided year in and year out have no such luxury. Here I'm thinking of OWS as a troubleshooter rather than as an end-user.
LOL we are not talking about homeless people, we are talking about books. Your attempt to derail failed. Gawd forbid you admit you might actually be wrong about something...
Cops threw out the books? No. They tossed them into a bin and the bin was taken to a storage site. If you want to see books getting thrown out, go to any library unloading its excess inventory.
We've got so many books in this country that we've run out of places to keep them. To overcome the space shortage, we now have Kindles and Nooks and other e-readers. Thus, equating the clean-up of Zuccotti Park with totalitarian governments is pure uninformed fantasy.
Meanwhile, after I visited Occupy Wall Street at Zuccotti Park a few times, it was obvious that none of the protesters knew much of anything about economic, finance, politics, science or technology, though most claimed they'd spent loads of borrowed dollars on college tuition.
If they'd taken them to the storage site, the books would have been at the storage site.
Your arguments are so illogical and nonsensical. You should just stop now.
There's a subversive appeal to those old paper books: people can still legally pass them hand to hand. The OWS library would have a hard time lending out Kindles and Nooks for people to read the volumes chained to their hardware. See http://gizmodo.com/369235/amazon-kindle-and-sony-reader-locked-up-why-your-books-are-no-longer-yours .
The country is groaning under the weight of its excess books. Millions and millions are thrown out every day. Where do you think Housing Works Bookstore gets its inventory? Free from donors.
If you think books are scarce and controlled by the government, then you know nothing. Try visiting an Islamic country, or Cuba or North Korea. Try selling a Bible in Saudi Arabia.
So, are you saying that someone has the right to steal someone else's property, if there is an abundance of that type of property? You are so clueless, it makes me laugh.
You speak as if there were some optimal level of knowledge - enough to have a few hours' casual reading now and then, but not enough, say, to compete in research against a well-financed private firm, or against university researchers whose electronic library and even card catalog (increasingly often) is "secured" against access by visitors and members of the public.
N.B. there seems to be some argument about the situation for librarians in Cuba; see http://www.friendsofcubanlibraries.org/Recent%20News%202.htm#Hentoff:%20Endless%20shame%20of%20the%20spinless%20ALA . I have generally thought of the ALA as a reliable defender of freedom of speech. I don't know much about the actual situation in Cuba, but of course, I favor freedom of speech universally.
There's no limit on knowledge. It's virtually all free. As for optimal levels of knowledge, well, more is better. As long as people aren't wasting their time soaking up idiocy that will do nothing to benefit the learner.
I spoke to a lot of OWS people. Not one said he was an engineer or scientist. Not one said he had a degree in finance or accounting. The crowd was filled with people who borrowed a lot money to study art, English and film. Not too bright of them.
Well, in biology virtually nothing was free until the NIH finally demanded that results from publicly funded research be licensed for the public to read. That reform was actual controversial with certain political elements. Even now, well less than half is publicly accessible. Just go to http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov and search PubMed for anything, and see how much is open, and how much is not. There are still a few people out there sharpening their knives and plotting the demise of PubMedCentral.
In biology, as in every other subject, textbooks covering the most advanced material are available to anyone. The only knowledge in science and engineering that is not easily accessible is proprietary knowledge. Stuff that's known as Intellectual Property.
The fact that some stuff is available at a price is hardly evidence of knowledge suppression.
Yeah, available to anyone with a whole lot of money to spend! The "Proprietary Knowledge" has largely come out of publicly funded research. Besides, no textbook can compare with direct access to the primary literature - you need to actually see every detail of how the experiment was done in order to tear it apart. (And believe me, usually there are some potential problems) It doesn't sound like you're that familiar with this stuff - just try typing a search term about anything you're interested in into that PubMed site and you'll see soon what I mean.
Update: sorry, but I think this discussion has stalled, and I'm using up way too much space on this.
Like I said, Intellectual Property is Private Property. Moreover, a lot of research is undertaken for profit-making purposes. Databases, for example. What of it?
You're pretending there's no distinction or difference between the public and private domains. If I create a new drug I want to keep others from duplicating it. The enables me to do that, as it should.
12th richest man in america = Mayor Bloomberg. This guy has billions of dollars and we can't even have books.
You are so pathetic. I am starting to despise you whining drama queens, and I used to be a supporter. The NYPD gave you all warning that they were shutting you down, gave you time to clean up and advised they would clear everything out that was left over if you didn't clean it up yourselves, and now you're whining because you did nothing? It's called consequences. Most people learn this early in life. Really, grow up.
troll
whore
You just cannot accept and get over the fact that Bloomberg, somehow, has more money than you, can you?
Your concern about MONEY is getting pretty sicking to me. If you are so into MONEY, and what is good for the 99%, please tell me who the 12th POOREST man in America is?
If you cannot ask that question, then you and I understand what you are all about, don't we??
Ooo ooo! Can I have a subscription to the magazine that depicts the 500 poorest people in America? No? What do you mean they don't have one? This is about being called out for fraudulently obtaining wealth, then using totalitarian tactics to ruthlessly put down paeceful folk who are trying to expose it. Period. You can go off about missing books and stuff all you want to, but the truth is is that Bloomberg and many others do not give a crap about anything or anybody unless it serves their interests, and their interests are quite often not in the interests of the people who live and work so that those rich folk can make their billions. It's about greed, and thinking that money makes you above the law, or a better person than anyone else. The only thing that stupid apes can fall back on is the old (very old) line that "You must just be jealous of stuff I own". Bah. Whatever. Get real.
I am very real. I happen to live in a city where I know my city manager and my state representative on a first name basis and I am in no way into politics, other than the fact that I had the opportunity to cast one vote for or against each. Now if I don't agree with what they are doing, I have a second recourse, city council meetings, and a sit down discussion at their home or office.
I see your points regarding your mayor who only has a last name, and who does not give a c--- about anything or anybody and who is working against the best interests of the people. What I cannot understand is how 3M(est) think he was the man for the job. Do you plan to relect him to do the same thing again??
Show me something that evidences you have some serious proof and season for your comments other THAN jeaslousy and I will listen to you. THAT would be REAL to me.
Who cares about the library. It was some junk books that some losers left behind. Its time for you to get some work and take a bath.
Aren't you suppose to be pro-property? Or does that only count when it's property of the 1%? :p
The trolls could care less unless it's their property being stolen.