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We kick the ass of the ruling class

Occupy Seattle Occupies Wal-Mart

Posted 2 years ago on Nov. 23, 2011, 1:46 p.m. EST by OccupyWallSt

Walmart

On Friday, November 25th, Occupy Seattle will join Occupy Tacoma, Occupy Bellingham and Occupy Everett in a statewide protest at Wal-Mart in Renton at 2:00pm.

With its long history of mistreating workers and suppliers, its recent announcement of significant cutbacks on employee health care, and its obscene profits, Wal-Mart is a prime example of how the 99% are suffering at the hands of the 1%.

Wal-Mart is the largest corporation in the world and proof positive of how big business is destructive to our democracy. While Americans are shopping at Wal-Mart, Wal-Mart is buying Congress. Last year, Wal-Mart paid over $4.3 million in campaign contributions (not to mention the monies funneled through donations to lobbying organizations) to protect its interests.

Unfortunately, its interests are not those of its employees. With $14.3 billion in profits in 2010, Wal-Mart still saw fit to eliminate health insurance coverage for part time employees, cut company contributions to employee health savings accounts by 50% and increase health care premiums 17% to 61% for over 2.1 million employees worldwide. According to an article in the Huffington Post, the average Wal-Mart worker makes $8.81 per hour, while the CEO makes $8990.00 per hour.

The Walton family (the largest shareholders of Wal-Mart stock and descendants of its founder) is the wealthiest family in the United States with an estimated net worth of $92 billion (according to Forbes’ latest ranking). That’s more wealth than the bottom 40% of Americans combined. They directly gave $7,000,000 in political contributions in 2010 and billions more through their family foundations in an effort to buy our legislative process. It’s time to Occupy Wal-Mart, to shine the spotlight on its many abuses and to support its millions of workers in their struggle for a living wage. Transportation will be leaving from Westlake Center starting at 12:30pm.

Contact: occupyseattle.media@gmail.com
Phone: 206-552-0377
URL: www.occupyseattle.org

563 Comments

563 Comments


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[-] 24 points by xxcONScIENcExx (172) 2 years ago

Can you imagine how much more they could pay their poor workers if they didn't have such big bills for campaign donations and lobbying? Just sayin'

[-] 8 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 2 years ago

and can you imagine how much better off workers would be if they just took over the institutions and started running it democratically themselves

Corporations are private tyrannies . We need real democracy built from the bottom up with non-hierarchical egalitarian principles where institutions and communities are run democratically : http://struggleforfreedom.blogg.no/1320873951_the_society_we_should.html

We can achieve this, you know. The Occupy Movement has started a struggle that´s going to lead to radical changes.

my contribution to how we can achive this: http://struggleforfreedom.blogg.no/1321101669_the_transition_phase_.html

[-] 8 points by shoesandtables (20) 2 years ago

I recommend those interested to check out this film: WAL-MART: High Cost Of Low Price [Full Film] --- Here is the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dp0O9jxLS64&feature=related

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[-] 2 points by aeturnus (231) from Robbinsville, NC 2 years ago

Here we go. I'm sure there might have been other posts hidden amongst the many in this relatively not-so-user-friendly website that have mentioned this, but I have to say. Amongst the posts that I have read, and excluding my own posts, this is the first I have read that is actively promoting workplace democracy. Keep it going!

[-] 1 points by vnayar (289) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

There's a bit of a troll problem, but I encourage you to ignore all the profanity laced attacks and look for constructive conversation. It's always good to have another pair of eyes and a good brain to discuss ideas, welcome aboard!

[-] 2 points by aeturnus (231) from Robbinsville, NC 2 years ago

Thanks. I pay little attention to profanity attacks and what not. But I wasn't really referring to that in calling this a not-so-user-friendly website. I find it very hard to search for specific posts on this site. So you basically have to read through all the stuff to find things that are most interesting.

[-] 1 points by sufinaga (513) 2 years ago

profanity attacks? so you are a crucifixion merchant? we just need to protect our children's minds from the jesus horror story. christians say man is bad and war is good, onward christian soldiers?!?! no no no! man is good and we do not want christian recruiting followers from our community. christians want a religious war against muslims. our community has solidarity with the poor against the tyranny of these two religions and their fascist masters.

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[-] 1 points by farmerjohn (22) 2 years ago

I agree with your link and would like to say this. Lets fire them all through each election. Let our public servants know that the party is over. Elect a candidate the will support and really pay attention to this word "FOR" The Constitution For the Unites States. This is the Constitution for the Republic of the United States of America. The Word "of" is for the incorporated United States. Two different documents. Any public servant that does not support this change should not be ellected, period. When this occurs all your all will be restored as our Fathers had intended. and we all will be SOVEREIGN again as it was designed to be.

[-] 1 points by pinker (586) 2 years ago

Create corporations and run them that way if you choose, but the government should not be able to tell a business how to organize itself. And corporations should not be able to control government with contributions. Less govt. Not more. This model was sent to me via a Michael Moore link. Let MM lead by example and equally share with ALL crew members decisions about his films and profits. Ain't gonna happen.

[-] 3 points by sinead (474) 2 years ago

I have to agree with you the the government should have no say into how a business is structured or how it runs it's day to day operations. By the same token corporations have no business influencing our representatives.... they should not be able to contribute the obscene amounts of money to political campaigns. Corporations should not have a more powerful voice in our governments decision making than the citizens do. I also believe that when a business such as Walmart is a major cause for our lack of a manufacturing base then something needs to be done. And let's face it Walmart doesn't exactly have a reputation that gives me any reason to support what it does.

Their product is sub standard, their rate of pay is lousy, they definitely are one Corporation I would mind seeing regulated right out of business.

[-] 8 points by xxcONScIENcExx (172) 2 years ago

Bingo!

I'll stop caring about Wal-Mart and all other lobbying factions when they stop caring about corrupting our democracy and undermining my vote. All Americans should be mad as hell that their votes have literally been stolen from them by greedy corporations looking to pay their executives $9000 an hour and then pad it with fat bonus checks. All instances of political corruption should be prosecuted as treason against our democracy. The right to vote is not enough and should not end at the polls. There will be the naysayers on here that say we shouldn't protest Wal-Mart and we should be protesting our politicians... I say BS! The corporations are accomplices in this murder... they built and bought the gun.. they hired the hit man... Hell, they even drove the getaway car.... they're just as guilty as the phonies that we vote for who accept the bribes. I don't care which way you lean politically... This should piss you off. Do not let up.... Do not back down

[-] 1 points by saveourfreedom (10) from Fairbanks, AK 2 years ago

no your missing a crucial point. freedom. our government although having many flaws. is the right kind. and bribery to our politicians is very wrong. but their "executives that get paid 9000$ an hour" have nothing to do with it. they should get paid however much the company wants to pay them that's freedom bro and if your against that I'm against u. i agree that politicians that take bribes PISS ME OF SO MUCH. but u elected them... get America to start voting more intelligently and actually look at who they are voting for and that won't happen. the company's that are willing to spend money to get what they want that is completely fine with me. they should do whatever gets them the most money. cause in the end that's better for all of us. they didn't break are economy. they made it. so don't rage at large company's cause there GREAT for the economy. instead get made at all the stupid people that don't vote or worse don't look at who there voting for. instead of getting mad at your employer get made at the people that got him employed (meaning u cause your working for him).... i don't know i'm a 16 year old kid from Alaska. but common sense goes a long way and the willingness to find the truth goes a lot farther. so i beg u for my sake and the sake of this beautiful country God gave us. think. use your minds. don't follow blindly but instead make your own path. and look for the truth. cause it will make all our lives a lot better.

[-] 1 points by xxcONScIENcExx (172) 2 years ago

Some of your $9000 friends are sitting at a $38000 a plate dinner with your president this evening. Creating and swaying legislation to benefit themselves only. There is little thought being paid to me, you or this beautiful country that God gave us. I have found the truth my brother.

[-] 1 points by saveourfreedom (10) from Fairbanks, AK 2 years ago

ok i understand what you mean. the people creating and swaying legislation to benefit themselves only. that's wrong i agree. but as for the president their having dinner with... who did you vote for? or did you vote at all? because frankly america brought these dirty diplomats on themselves. regardless of your economic and political ideals a dirty diplomat is a dirty diplomat and i think we can all agree that we don't want them in office. so don't put them their and we won't have problems... do you disagree? and as for the head of "greedy" company's i think i have a solution: say you don't like how Tyson lobby's for corn subsidies. k? you do something like your doing now. you get a huge group that also don't like it and... guess what. you don't buy their stuff. and next you send them a letter. and say something like: if you stop lobbying we start buying. if you get rid of subsides we might even buy more... now that will draw some attention. and if they don't. they lose a TON of money from all the product you would have bought. now that's a free market economy. you don't like it don't buy it. that simple. don't have the government come in and tell them to stop. don't go whine about to anyone that will listen just stop buying. and if you want that you can make it happen. see the greatest thing about are government/economy is that the people have the power. and another thing that 9000$ guy could be anyone of you... there is major trade offs for having a life like that thou. he probably doesn't have family and if he dose i doubt he spends time with them. he probably works a lot more then you do. and sure he makes a ton more. but it probably took him a lot of time and "know how" to get their. he probably gave up a lot of things you wouldn't even think about giving up. and that is why he is rich. now this of course excludes kids who inherited tons of money from there parents or people that just get down right lucky. but if you got the know how and the work ethic u can make it to the top EVEN when the economy says you can't.

[-] 1 points by xxcONScIENcExx (172) 2 years ago

I hear ya and probably would have typed something similar before i began to really look at what is going on... just a couple comments. I have voted for 16 years and will continue to vote. With the exception of 2 "diplomats" I voted for, all of them have caved on their campaign commitments to me as a constituent. some lasted longer than others... but i believe the problem is mostly systemic. if my belief is correct, then the vote is irrelevant. regarding lobbying, if you look at the lists, you will see that every corporation is forced to lobby to stay competitive... similar to corporations, special interests too.... this also should lead you to believe that the problem is in the system. you have to cheat to stay alive man. i think that this is what has destroyed unions and turned what should have been ethically responsible corporations and special interests into money driven corrupters. it's built in to the game. you are right... that $9000 guy could be me.... but I don't like the odds. CEO to frontline worker income separation has spread from 24:1 to 243:1 over the last 30 years in this country. I have had and will continue to have the work ethic... i have been employed at 2 companies for the last 12 years, consistently scraped and clawed my way up for promotions..... live frugally... no debt.... but have watched my families middle class existence be pushed to the brink of poverty. Hope is not a strategy. At some point you have to stop...and look at the facts.. not just listen to what you're told. That's when I discovered what I needed to establish my position about supporting this movement.

[-] 1 points by Banduras7317 (-16) 2 years ago

wow- couldn't have said it better.

[-] 1 points by sinead (474) 2 years ago

I can't understand peoples objection to protesting Walmart. Even if they did not throw money at our politicians their treatment of employees is deplorable and the way the destroy the businesses in small towns is a crime.

I wouldn't mind seeing OWS show en mass at both Walmart and DC.

[-] 3 points by Farleymowat (415) 2 years ago

I don't shop there. Most of the poor around here do though. 100 bucks at walmart is120 bucks at the place across the street. Can't blame anyone for getting stuff there.

[-] 1 points by occupiedinCHI (23) 2 years ago

That is important, but remember, people wouldn't be so poor if we weren't living in a Wal-Mart economy where we roll back worker's wages so we can have lower prices. That's not a good trade-off. Everything costed more, when adjusted for inflation (except health care and education), 50 years ago, but salaries were much higher too in proportion to inflation.

[-] 1 points by farmerjohn (22) 2 years ago

Lol - well that is what the corporations know. They can get it cheaper lobbying OUR elected officials. So how about we go to the source and occupy Washington D.C. Make it part of our country again and fire them all. Period. Problem solved.

[-] 1 points by Banduras7317 (-16) 2 years ago

That'snot exactly problem solved, Although I do think the occupy D.C. has validity. When money is free speech, there is a problem for those who have not amassed billions. It's even difficult for one who does have billions (Warren Buffet) to be heard over the screeches of those who are holding tight to what they have no matter what means they used in getting it.

[-] 1 points by shoesandtables (20) 2 years ago

You need to CHANGE THE LAWS that determine how outside money is used in the political system.

[-] 0 points by Farleymowat (415) 2 years ago

That's what I say

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[-] 1 points by aries (463) from Nutley, NJ 2 years ago

no-one is forcing anyone to work there. No-one is forcing anyone to shop there either. OWS is the only one using force here.

[-] 1 points by sinead (474) 2 years ago

How are they using force? By protesting? They are stopping anyone from going into Wal-mart. You're just being argumentative.

[-] 1 points by aries (463) from Nutley, NJ 2 years ago

you want to force the redistribution of wealth. Public education - use of force. Social Security - use of force, progressive tax code - use of force, Obamacare - use of force.

[-] 1 points by sinead (474) 2 years ago

"you"? I am not trying to redistribute anyone's wealth...

But I have to ask.... what use of force was used for , "Public education, Social Security, progressive tax code, Obamacare."?

[-] 1 points by aries (463) from Nutley, NJ 2 years ago

you have no choice whether or not you want to participate in Social Security or Public ed. 15% of your labor is confiscated for Soc sec. 7.5% from you & 7.5% from your employer. Do the math on that over a lifetime & see how much you would have accumulated for yourself & family. If you want to send your kid to private school you still have to pay your school taxes on top of it. No Choice. Force. How about voucher system for schools & optional Soc Sec?

[-] 1 points by sinead (474) 2 years ago

Every time anyone even hints at changing the Social Security system the left goes absolutely apoplectic ..... And I agree with you.... I am 60 and have worked since I was 18... I'm certainly not going to get out of SS what I have put into it over the years.... (if I get it at all!) But then if the government had kept their hands out of the cookie jar we wouldn't be having the problems with SS, that and the fact of the slackers with a nondescript back injury or depression that collects SS disability..

As far as education, I don't mind supporting the public school system... I do mind having my tax dollars used for paying teachers that are working way past their sell by date because they have tenure and receiving health care benefits that I can only dream of having. as well as a laundry list of other things that get paid for that actually don't go to educating the kids.

As far as Obamacare... I think it is unconstitutional for the Federal Government to require us to buy anything.... There were other things they could have done to change the health care system... like regulate the insurance companies, open up Medicaid to purchase health insurance on a sliding fee scale...

Unfortunately, we are talking about Congress making the decisions, most of them have no idea what it is like to live in the real world..... so we can hardly expect them to be able to make decisions that will actually benefit us. And we can't forget that they all have their own special interest groups that they must please or they don't get re-elected.

[-] 1 points by aries (463) from Nutley, NJ 2 years ago

I love you Sinead

[-] 2 points by sinead (474) 2 years ago

Love you too Aires! :)

[-] 1 points by xxcONScIENcExx (172) 2 years ago

In my America, that's a cheap cop out. Your attempt to make this a partisan discussion are not heard. The point of the post was not the workers or their wages. The point was the misuse of revenue by a corporation that is so ethically and financially responsible to billions of dollars of revenue and wages in our country to corrupt and undermine our political system. The irony in this is that you vote to elect candidates into office to "represent" you while earning and/or spending your paycheck with a corporation that ultimately tells your "representative" how to represent you as a constituent. Make sense now?

[-] 1 points by aries (463) from Nutley, NJ 2 years ago

In your America - well there lies the problem. America is not your's. The only responsibility the company has is to the shareholders. If you don't like the way your representative is representing you - work to vote them out. This movement is just a childish temper tantrum. Do you really think anyone respects you or your views?

[-] 1 points by xxcONScIENcExx (172) 2 years ago

Again, the point being... that this is YOUR country and mine as well.... Not Wal-Marts or any other corporation. Corporations that capitalize on our country's economy should have other responsibilities in addition to those of their shareholders. In OUR America they should have responsibilities to ... their employees... the environment... and the long-term health of economy to name a few. You seem to have issue with Obamacare.... which lobbying factions helped to get that passed? Do you even know?

[-] 1 points by aries (463) from Nutley, NJ 2 years ago

sure - the insurance companies. Why not - it's going to tax the heck out of everyone & give them more business. While we all wait on line & drop dead due to the up coming doctor shortage. Companies provide a product that people want. Any jobs created out of it is a bi-product of that endeavor period.

[-] 1 points by xxcONScIENcExx (172) 2 years ago

Well then there it is... In your and my America, money should not control the actions of government. The people should. Our votes only address half of the problem. If we are not going to address the other half, who will?

[-] 1 points by aries (463) from Nutley, NJ 2 years ago

yes - so protest the ones corrupted by the money not the ones making the offer. you are never going to stop people from offering money - get real! You can hold your representatives accountable at the ballot box. Your aim is off that's all.

[-] 1 points by AuditElmerFudd (259) 2 years ago

Absurd. Communities typically demand to have a Wal-Mart because they carry cheap goods people want. The company doesn't employ magic to convince people to buy stuff there. The histrionics are off the charts on this one.

[-] 3 points by sinead (474) 2 years ago

I don't think you've really followed what happened in many towns where Walmart was NOT "demanded".....

http://gapolitico.com/en/2011/11/17/no-walmart-petition-reaches-4300-signatures-in-hours/

http://sustainablewatertown.com/?q=No_to_Walmart

http://nomurphywalmart.com/

No histrionics.... Walmarts have destroyed a lot of small town business

[-] 2 points by beamerbikeclub (414) 2 years ago

And crack-heads demand crack but I don't think we should help them to it.

But you are right, it's not magic. It's cheap Chinese labor and factories in countries with no environmental protections so they can pollute all they want. And it's also (apparently) poor treatment of American workers.

But it's also uninformed Americans buying stuff they don't Really understand the cost of.

[-] 0 points by AuditElmerFudd (259) 2 years ago

The fact is, if the net negatives outweighed the net positives, communities would reject Wal-Mart. Since they haven't, the arguments against Wal-Mart are apparently not convincing enough to drive people away... and it's not because they're "stupid" or "uninformed". I've found that people can be surprisingly well informed on both mainstream and obscure issues.

[-] 1 points by beamerbikeclub (414) 2 years ago

I didn't say people shop at Wal-Mart because they are "stupid". I repeat that I don't think people understand the real costs (environmental, economic, existential) of shopping there. None of us really know those costs in absolute terms, so I think it's a stretch to imagine a "net" calculation going on for anyone. Most people simple "go to store" without asking these questions or doing any calculations whatsoever.

[-] 1 points by sfsteve (151) 2 years ago

They are informed they know that shopping at Walmart is an endorsement of slavery but they figure its just how it is. They could stop shopping at Walmart there but how much difference could that possibly make? Everyone else shops there after all. So they shop there and try to ignore the negative consequences. Its like smoking cigarets, if you like to smoke you can become quite proficient at not considering that it ain't good for you.

[-] 2 points by AuditElmerFudd (259) 2 years ago

Who exactly is being enslaved in your opinion?

[-] 0 points by sfsteve (151) 2 years ago

The overseas factory workers first. The store employees second. Any job that does not pay a living wage is in my opinion a form of slavery. Paying less than a living wage and not calling it slavery is like saying that since slaves were fed and housed they were essentially paid. Freedom from debt is equivalent to freedom from imprisonment.

[-] 2 points by AuditElmerFudd (259) 2 years ago

So you are claiming that neither the factory worker, nor the store worker has a choice and they are literally forced by Wal-Mart to work there. This... is what you're saying. Choose your hyperbole carefully. Credibility relies on your sense of accuracy and perspective.

[-] 0 points by sfsteve (151) 2 years ago

They are forced to work somewhere.

[-] 2 points by AuditElmerFudd (259) 2 years ago

So the description "slavery" doesn't really apply at all, does it? Slaves can't choose where to work.

[-] 0 points by wewontgetfooledagain (23) 2 years ago

They are saying there is far less choice these days than in the past. Since Walmart has taken over retail and too much is made outside the USA, there are fewer choices of places to work, so yes many people are all but forced into these jobs. Basically many good US manufacturing jobs were replaced with lower paying jobs stocking Walmart shelves, unloading trucks, and running cash registers, and many jobs went to China and other countries. Over 100 million people in China work in manufacturing and it's very close to slavery or prison camp working and living conditions. Workers live in tiny rooms at the factory because they aren't paid enough to live elsewhere. Looks like a prison. At electronics and household-goods factories the pay is between 900 and 1,200 RMB per month, or about $115 to $155. A factory work shift is typically 12 hours, six or seven days per week. Conditions are dangerous. How can you get much closer to pure slavery?

The Death of American Manufacturing

http://www.thetrumpet.com/?page=article&id=1955

[-] 0 points by czarmishka (0) from Colorado Springs, CO 2 years ago

I stock shelves at Walmart. I make about $30,000 a year, have a decent 401k, health insurance, life insurance, stock options. I've never been treated unfairly. There may have been instances of underhanded dealings in some places, but I personally have never encountered anything shady. It's not my ideal job, but it pays my bills.

I do support the Occupy Movement, but remember Walmart is mostly 99%ers.

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[-] 0 points by pinker (586) 2 years ago

In regards to Walmart, as I've stated below somewhere, people deserve the dignity of being able to afford toilet paper. The corner stores rip off the poor. I'd ask the people who shop there how they feel. agree with other stuff you said.

[-] 3 points by sinead (474) 2 years ago

You're right. But as a former small store owner it's difficult to even come close to being able to offer the same prices the big box stores do, they just don't have the same buying power, so they can't purchase their products for resale at the price Walmart, or Target etc... can. I don't think there are very many of them that deliberately set out to "rip off the poor".

I also asked the protesters to be kind to the people that go into Walmart that they are protesting.... I'm sure if they could afford to go elsewhere they would.

[-] 1 points by classynancy (-73) 2 years ago

I'm sorry that your small store didn't make ti, but as an entrepreneur who competes against significantly (100x +) times bigger competitors, there is a way to compete, but you need to do it the right way and pick and choose what tactics will work. Often times, it means using the strengths of your competition in one area as a weakness in others. This is so powerful since they can't change inherently who they are very quickly at all.

[-] 2 points by farmerjohn (22) 2 years ago

I'm sorry but the corner store does not happen to have the purchasing power of wallmart. It has an overhead just like you and i do in our daily lives. He has to purchase it at a higher price and mark it up accordingly. That's the convenience of you going to the corner and not driving 5 miles to get to wallmart. He makes the investment and puts everything on the line so you can go to the corner and buy what you need.

[-] 0 points by AuditElmerFudd (259) 2 years ago

It's simple economics. Remember, Wal-Mart started out with one store also and because it was run efficiently, it was rewarded with more sales. There is nothing evil or pernicious about it.

[-] 1 points by xxcONScIENcExx (172) 2 years ago

If you dig a little deeper for understanding, you might find what you're looking for. The point of the post was not the workers or their wages. The point was the misuse of revenue by a corporation that is so ethically and financially responsible to billions of dollars of revenue and wages in our country to corrupt and undermine our political system. The irony in this is that you vote to elect candidates into office to "represent" you while earning and/or spending your paycheck with a corporation that ultimately tells your "representative" how to represent you as a constituent. Make sense now?

[-] 1 points by AuditElmerFudd (259) 2 years ago

I think you have it reversed... We vote with our dollars at stores like Wal-Mart in exchange for inexpensive things we want, while votes cast in Washington create things almost none of us want and end up costing us plenty.

[-] -2 points by pinker (586) 2 years ago

Yes, I understand how it works and sorry if I implied they were doing it on purpose (although many of us in my neighborhood have seen our corner store owner buying baskets of one item at Walmart to resale to us - half of us don't have cars). Nonetheless, poor people don't have the luxury to pay a little more because they disagree with a store's ideologies - they just need to feed their families.

[-] 1 points by mkmkmk (5) 2 years ago

In a competitive economy the lack of a rule is no different than a rule. Think about it. Without minimum wage a company will be forced to pay their employees even less to survive. So by getting rid of minimum wage you are actually forcing a company to pay their employees a lower wage.

[-] 1 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 2 years ago

You need to understand that the economy is all-encompassing, What we need to do is to create a democratic society based on democratically run workplaces and communities, not just a co-op here and there in a sea of state- capitalism: http://struggleforfreedom.blogg.no/1320873951_the_society_we_should.html

[-] 0 points by pinker (586) 2 years ago

YOU are free to create any type of business you want and run it that way. Democratically run busniesses sound great to me, but I do not think businesses should be told how to structure their business. I like your idea, but human nature is what it is. It won't work - there will always be people who usurp power. it's an animal instinct.

[-] 2 points by dealdoctor (148) 2 years ago

Everyone knows the political and economic systems are broken. Is some kind of new paradigm possible? This video begins that discussion. See if it causes you to think about what you have been taught is right. A crisis is a good time to re-evaluate basic assumptions. Reality trumps any ideology conservative or liberal.

http://tinyurl.com/5swbwzz

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[-] -2 points by pinker (586) 2 years ago

As I've said, I like the guy's ideas and hope they go into politics to represent such ideas.

[-] 1 points by aeturnus (231) from Robbinsville, NC 2 years ago

I think we need to alter the idea here a bit. Say a union decides that conditions are horrible, and so in turn convinces the workers to throw out the boss. There is no government interference. It's not the government telling them how to run the business. It's the union, which is comprised of the workers.

[-] 0 points by pinker (586) 2 years ago

Fine with me if that's the way the owner of the business has structured said business.

[-] 1 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 2 years ago

well, not everyone can start a business. You need capital to do that. But it doesnt matter, thats not the point. The economy is all-encompassing. By creating a co-op the unjust economy is still there. Still a few percentage control huge parts of the economy, the enormous concentration of wealth is still there, people are still being exploited. What we need to do is create a society with democratic institutions

[-] 2 points by farmerjohn (22) 2 years ago

Struggle 99.9 percent you are right that you need capital to start a business, That is what we were taught. I for myself could not afford one so i went to the bank and they said NO. no no no no . So i decided to use there money and not pay my mortgage for 1 month and buy a piece of equipment that i needed and started my business. I have done this for 15 years now and my business is totally vested = paid for. As of this date i am still behind on my mortgage and should be caught up by Jan 2012. I have worked 7 days a week for 12 years - holidays and sometimes i work then also. Trying to put bread on the table. This all happened when at 1998 when i could not get employment, either overqualified or to dam old. So it is possible but you have to work your butt off depends on your dream i guess. Our economy is no longer a manufacturer of products we gave it all away. Just a service industry.

[-] 2 points by myers73 (6) from Orlando, FL 2 years ago

farmerjohn - Agreed! In today's society nothing is handed to you. You have to work hard to get ahead in life and I think a large percentage of the population is still not willing to do that. I too started a business with nothing and sacrificed what others are just not willing to. Hard work and never giving up on that dream is the key to success.

[-] 1 points by mkmkmk (5) 2 years ago

Actually, most of what you guys do for "business" most people likely believe is unethical. Could you please state your business, the amount above your costs you charge your customers and lastly the compensation including salary, pension and benefits for your workers and the ratio of that to your profits.

Lastly, does your company actually build, create or add something new to benefit society or are you simply in the middle of a transaction taking your "cut" which actually makes things more expensive for everyone else.

I await your response.

Starting a business is easy. Having the stomach to lie, cheat and screw your employees is the the hard part of being a "successful" business.

[-] 1 points by corbini157 (91) 2 years ago

That's awesome! But we have enough resources in this country that if they're being shared appropriately you shouldn't have to work that much. We want people having families and want parents to spend as much time with their children as possible. That's important as well as working hard.

[-] 2 points by AuditElmerFudd (259) 2 years ago

Laws that force people to share are immoral.

[-] 2 points by corbini157 (91) 2 years ago

Since 1970 C.E.O. wages have increased 275% while workers wages have stayed stagnant, that's immoral.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

More like 425%.

[-] 2 points by AuditElmerFudd (259) 2 years ago

CEO wages are set by the company, and in some cases shareholders may weigh in on executive compensation. What's of greater importance in my opinion is the fact that the value of the dollar to gold bullion has fallen 98% since Nixon took us off the gold standard in 1971. Think a minute about that, and see how neatly that dovetails into the CEO wage increases since 1970....That is a far greater threat to the American worker than all CEO salaries combined.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

OIC.

The CEOs find ever more ways to rip us off and you think that's fine.

Gold has better uses than bling and money.

Get over it.

There are other ways to look at macro economics, then taking us back to the 19th century.

http://pragcap.com/resources/understanding-modern-monetary-system

[-] 1 points by AuditElmerFudd (259) 2 years ago

How is a piece of paper, backed by nothing, more modern or efficient than a currency backed by something of value? Keep in mind, currency could potentially be backed by nearly anything, and our nearly worthless dollars should face currency competition in the US. Let the best "money" win!

[-] 1 points by Banduras7317 (-16) 2 years ago

I vote for air... we've used salt... that was not much better than gold but then you can preserve foods with it and all animals need a some of it in their bodies. Water, fresh, is the one sneaking up on (the 1st world countries) list. Going much more local, knowing that getting all the marbles may end the game, and valuing something other than materials easily stolen or destroyed will help us stay on the earth a bit longer. The dinosaurs have us beaten by a long shot. namaste

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Well, if you and Wallstreet, would actually share, such a law would be unnecessary, but that's not the case.

[-] 1 points by winkangrin (3) from King George, VA 2 years ago

No, I disagree! It is awesome that a person has the will to work and provide for his family. Absolutely the cornerstone of our culture. Life is a series of choices. If you made the choice to pay attention in school, not smoke weed, and play the game (I did not, but that is my fault), then your chances for landing on easy street are pretty good, provided you did not invest your time in some pursuit that is low paying (humanities, liberal arts). Want to make money? Study hard to become a lawyer or a doctor or an MBA. Then, you can make a really good wage, but you'll have to spend lots of time at work. You want more home time? You make a trade off. Not as much money, but a better quality of life. You dont get a mansion to enjoy your family time in: you have to settle for a rambler in the suburbs. Want more family time and did not pay attention in school, had a kid or two unmarried, like to hang out socially instead of work two jobs? You get a trailer or an apartment. It's a series of trade offs. To imply that there are 'resources' that others have are not being 'shared' is far from true. What you are really saying is that someone else has earned through legal means something that you feel entitled to. You are saying that the whole group should share more or less equally in the fruit of the tree, regardless of who bought the seed, who purchased the land the tree grows on, how much in wages were paid to those who planted the tree, how much the cost of maintaining that tree were, and are forgetting that no one forced the help to work for him...they did so out of free choice. And, if the tree withers and dies, it is all the responsibility of the guy who profits from the fruit, and none of those he paid to help him share in that. Thats what you are really saying, in my opinion.

[-] 2 points by jdnreha (85) 2 years ago

I started a business with no capital, My dad started his with $5.33 about 15 yrs ago. ( I killed mine, didnt like the work, so we will talk about my dads) Why should my dad's employees have a say in how he runs HIS business which he is liable for and has to manage? By the very definition of democratically run workplaces, There can be no boss, so who would take the risk of starting a business?

[-] 3 points by GetAngry (35) from Warren, MI 2 years ago

Different is 15 years ago. Loans were easy to get.

You can't get loans to start a business nowadays unless you have a substantial amount of capital already.

[-] 3 points by AuditElmerFudd (259) 2 years ago

That's why borrowing from friends, family, or angel investors makes more sense. Forget about banks.

[-] 1 points by jdnreha (85) 2 years ago

Actually, he didn't take a loan until recently (2008) when he decided to increase his company size. He literally brought something from an auction for $5.33 and then resold it for profit. and he is still doing it.

[-] 1 points by mkmkmk (5) 2 years ago

Seems like Dad doesn't actually produce or create anything. Seems like he's really just a tax on the person who didn't get to the thing he bought for $5.33 first.

[-] 1 points by jdnreha (85) 2 years ago

well, in some twisted sense your right. My dad mealy provides a service to a person that doesn't have the time to go out and buy stuff, or have the expertise to fix it. But then again, very few businesses actually produce, they are just a 'tax' on the person who is more focused on something else.

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[-] 1 points by corbini157 (91) 2 years ago

One thing to consider is that your dad isn't the only person taking a risk on HIS business. His employees are also vesting their families safety and security as employees depend on their salaries to pay for these things. It's really just about the employers understanding their responsibilities to their employees.

[-] 1 points by winkangrin (3) from King George, VA 2 years ago

The responsibility to his employees is to provide them with a paycheck in exchange for their work. He does not owe them any thing outside of that arrangement. And,his employees have no obligation to him other than coming to work. If they should decide that conditions are unbearable, then they may choose to go somewhere else and work. Conversely, if the owner wants to have the best product or service ,he will make his workplace desireable to people seeking work. In no other context should the employee have any 'say' over what his job should or shouldnt be,unless the owner has assigned that employee the task of evaluating his job.

[-] 1 points by uftscott (26) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

What if a particular business or organization has a monopoly in a particular area and/or industry? Then employees may not choose to go somewhere else and work. In this case should employees have a say?

[-] 1 points by corbini157 (91) 2 years ago

... and as long as every person has a fair chance to become a business owner, I don't have a problem with this mindset. If banks refuse to lend to people without capital, how can anyone who isn't born into wealth become a business owner?

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

Employees should have some sort of say, since they are the ones doing a lot of the work. For some reason, people have this idea that the employees must be slaves and must do what they are told without questioning anything. This is completely unfair. Employer/employee relationships are two-way streets... not one-way streets. It's wise for the employer to listen to its employees anyway. If the employees are unhappy (because of being treated unfairly), what kind of production will they accomplish?

[-] 2 points by gamer86 (32) 2 years ago

@SwissMiss,

You clearly have no idea how to run a business. You give your employees say over what happens in your business, and you'll make absolutely no progress what so ever.

[-] 1 points by mkmkmk (5) 2 years ago

Can you do all of us a favor and leave our country? Why do you think any of us what someone like you around who only cares about themselves? Seriously, move to Somalia or something.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

Um.... I didn't say the employees should have say over the business, did I? I said they should have SOME SORT OF SAY in some of the decision making. The best companies are the ones that value and incorporate the employees' voices. My company does this through what it calls C.I..... or continuous improvement. It's a program that it has developed where EVERY employee in the company (and we have thousands of employees around the country and in some other countries) has a say in how things are done in regard to their department/group. Employees make suggestions, file complaints, give opinions, etc. about many different things. Some of our plants and groups have idea programs for the same thing. They come up with ideas on how to improve things. And from these programs, the best ideas come about, and things are improved not only for the employees, but also for the company.

A portion of our employees are union employees, and a portion are not. For those of us who don't belong to the union, we have the continuous improvement program and idea programs. And our company listens to us when we speak. And we are one of the most successful companies in our field. We are a publicly traded company, and we get a really good percentage of the companies' profits each year in the way of a really nice bonus (along with annual raises).... something that is almost unheard of today. The bonus each person gets is a percentage of their annual salary, and it's based on both the performance of the company and on the performance of each employee. We have quarterly and annual reviews that help determine our performance part of the bonus.

Anyone who wants to run their business like a slave camp is a fool.

[-] 1 points by uftscott (26) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

Wow, there are so many counterexamples to this position. What about the golden age of American manufacturing, which coincided with very strong manufacturing unions? Those businesses thrived while giving employees a say.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

Agreed.

[-] 1 points by sameeker (3) from Ludlow, IL 2 years ago

If the employees share in the profits, they have a vested interest in working hard and making sound decisions. The Idea is working at several companies around the country.

[-] 0 points by jdnreha (85) 2 years ago

You are right, it is wise for the employer to listen to there employees. I find that they will have better customer service and less turn around witch translates to less training time, and more skilled employee's. Its also the owners choice to do so as well.

As far as treating employees as slaves, well, they have the choice to work where they are at. However employers should do what they say the will do(ie give raises when they said they would, etc). Last time I hired someone, they want to work for me, and last time I told a boss to go put it were the sun dont shine, I too wanted to work for him at one point.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

And if you're always treating your employees like shit, you will have high turnover and all kinds of other problems. That is not a smart way to run a business.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

I agree. It is the owner's choice, but people who own businesses shouldn't be surprised or upset when their workers start to rebel if they are being treated like shit. As I said, it's a two-way street as far as the relationship, and the better the relationship, the better it is for all parties involved. People should look at companies like Trader Joe's and Whole Foods as examples. There are some things I don't like about how Whole Foods does things, but as far as how it treats its employees and the pay and benefits, it's much better than most. And Trader Joe's is one of the top companies in how it treats and sees its employees, and that turns into better sales for the company. It's obvious from the attitude of the employees when shopping in their stores as compared to going to places like Target, Meijer, Kroger, Walmart, K-Mart, etc. People who work for those types of companies don't seem happy there, and they act like you are asking them to murder someone if you seek help from them. Also, Trader Joe's and WF have very low turnover. My mom has been trying to get hired by one of them for 3 years.

[-] 1 points by jdnreha (85) 2 years ago

Your right. Thats why i believe in workplace competition. Because of the "tight" economy, a lot of companies are taking advantage of the hype and treating there employees with disrespect. Thats why I encorge people not to belive that there are not jobs out there. There really are job's all over. My wife just expanded her bissness to accommodate an additional 4 people. She has way to much demand in her industry. And best of all, the 4 people will be working at home. But at the beginning, she layout what is expected, and what can be expected from her. If at any point they dont like it, well, we wish the best of luck to them.

[-] 2 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

I like the idea of telling people ahead of time what is expected of them and what they should expect. That's only fair to them, and as long as they are being treated with respect and the owners are holding up to what they promised, then things should run much more smoothly. Most people understand that small businesses can't afford a lot of perks like larger ones can. I've worked for small, medium, and large businesses, and each one has something (or many things) that are special. In the small businesses I worked for, we had little perks.... free juice, soda, etc., small perks here and there, it was a much more personal atmosphere (like that of a family), etc. I really enjoyed those things about them, and people were treated with respect. In large companies, it's much less personal overall, but the perks my be more plentiful and larger... but there's also usually more office politics you have to put up with.

I've found that even providing small perks once in a while to employees, while treating them with respect and treating them like they matter goes a long way.

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[-] -1 points by pinker (586) 2 years ago

Then I hope you work toward that end. I read your blog and find it interesting. Good luck and please go into politics, because honestly, working within the system that is in place is the best way to recreate it the way you see fit. You obviously are smart and know that of won't happen overnight.

[-] 0 points by buddazjade (4) 2 years ago

Never should corporations control government but we see it constantly with campaing contributions. I disagree with your statement that government should not interfer with business and that we need less government. Less government is what got us in this economic downward spiral. It is what allowed companies to ship more and more jobs overseas and allowed companies to take advantage of their workers. Less government is not the answer! A change in the way government is run is the absolute answer. The United States Constitution clearly states that our government is for the people by the people. The only problem is that once as we exercise our vote on who we want to lead this country, our power is gone. We have politicians presenting bills in congress of their own accord, reallly prompted by their campaing contributions. Take for example Obamas Jobs bill. Somethins needs to be done. There is a majority in favor of the bill across the country but still congress votes no with the majority. Our government is no longer for the people by the people. Its more along the lines for the wealthy by the wealthy at the expense of everyone not in the top one percent.

[-] 0 points by tryingheretoo (11) 2 years ago

That guy is the worst (best) example of what a true hypocrite is all about. He became rich out of complaining about the riches. Still, some people are so unable to think for themselves that they need him, which is why he is able to sell his stuff in the first place. Anyone who compares who he is with who he criticizes will realize they were fooled very bad.

[-] 1 points by winkangrin (3) from King George, VA 2 years ago

I missed something, trying...are you talking about Michael Moore in your post?

[-] 0 points by aeturnus (231) from Robbinsville, NC 2 years ago

You're right. The government shouldn't be able to tell a business how to organize itself, but that's not the same as the workers telling a business how to organize itself. WalMart has caused enough abuses that are of an extremist variety and think they have the power of the free market on their side to justify their draconian tactics. The government shouldn't be able to tell us what to do, either. If the workplace is causing economic turbulence, then the government has no right to tell us that we can't do anything about it. You can't have it both ways. Why should the government be allowed to tell us, the workers, what we can and can't do, but yet not be able to tell a business how to organize itself? If you don't want the government telling us what to do, that's fine. But you can't have it both ways.

[-] 3 points by fatherlenin (1) 2 years ago

Then don't work at Walmart. Simple. If they are such a terrible place to work, they would be out of business already. You make it sound like there are brownshirt thugs whipping employees and forcing them into labor.

[-] 3 points by aeturnus (231) from Robbinsville, NC 2 years ago

Aside from the fact that WalMart is notorious for its union-busting practices, it is also in the business of making it very hard for other businesses to compete. It is an economic problem on a large scale. When WalMart comes to a town, wages tend to drop. Other business are forced to pay less to compete. That is an extremist position.

A firm becomes a terrible place to work if they decide to make you pay for your health care. Forcing a person to pay for health care while up to his head in medical bills is an extremist position for any corporation to undertake.

You do not have to be directly violent to take an extremist position. In some cases, an extremist position might be good if it benefits most. In this case, it doesn't. WalMart does what it does out of self-interest. The workers do what they do to survive. There are always going to be far more workers than there are managers and CEOs, and it is to those individuals that I lend my support.

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[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

And the turnover at WalMart is very high (say 44%) as the workers do what they do to survive.

I am torn between being confronted by NEW employees at WalMart all the time and going to a major competing business and being confronted by OLD employees that are guaranteed their job and could care less about me as a customer-(no smile, no greeting at the door, no carts in the rack, dirty floors, waiting 15-20 minutes for someone called for assistance to get there, etc. (DISCLAIMER - this has been my experience only and may not be true of all locations of either business being made reference to)

PS - missing a ) somewhere above. Please put it where it belongs for me. Thanks..

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

Places like Trader Joe's and Whole Foods are very hard to get into. Why? It's because they treat their employees well and give them decent pay and benefits. They have very low turnover. My mom has been trying to get into them in this area for 3 years. It's not rocket science trying to figure out how to keep employees happy and loyal. You certainly can't treat them like shit and then expect loyalty.

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

And that is the great freedom that we do have. May I suggest a temporary job at WalMart, work like h___, get a good recommendation, etc, and take the Trader Joe's job when it opens up to you.

That is called upward mobility. (Please, I am NOT saying that is not what your Mother is now doing).

My point is simply, making WalMart like trader Joe's will not solve the problem of more job availability - under those conditions, it will be very hard to get a job at WalMart too.

Good luck to your Mother. I love Trader Joe's. Wish our little city had one.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

You're right in that places like Trader Joe's and WF don't necessarily solve the problem of job availability, but my point is that they do help solve the problem of people making livable wages and getting decent benefits and being happy with their jobs. People consider most of the positions at these two retailers (WF does have some more specialized positions... chefs and such) to be unskilled..... and for jobs labeled as such, they do pay more livable wages with solid benefits. Both companies are very successful as well, while paying much higher wages and benefits as compared to their competitors. Their competitors actually struggle more.

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

They may be classified as "unskilled" but if you have to obtain your skills at WalMart to get the job at Trader Joes, that may be somewhat of a misnomer.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

Um.... you think one has to obtain their skills at Walmart first? Really? That is really fucking hilarious!!!!!

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

When you get done rolling on the floor, grass or whatever and laughing, we must talk again. In the meantime, have a good laugh on me.

[-] 1 points by aeturnus (231) from Robbinsville, NC 2 years ago

A turnover rate of 44%? Very high, indeed. Workers are doing what they do to survive. WalMart apparently can't even hold on to its own workforce, because it is not a viable place to work. They do not have the capacity for workers to earn a decent living. That's my point.

[-] 2 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

There is a great amount of difference between entry level positions and career positions. Are you a career: clerk, stocker, janitor, tire repairman, oil changer, at WalMart. How about McDonald's. Do you go THERE to see your friends that have worked there for 25 years. Do you even know the name of a wait person at Appleby's because you have seen them there for 20 years??

What is the turnover rate in your high school class of 2012 going to be, how about your college class of 2012,

The turnover rate at WalMart is about average for the retail industry as a whole.

You point is only valid to support your point. There is a lot more to all stories like this and TOO many people can not seem to see a picture beyond their point (we used to call it the end of their nose).

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

Very high, by who's definition? About average for the retail service industry as a whole.

[-] 1 points by aeturnus (231) from Robbinsville, NC 2 years ago

A turnover rate in the 40-percent range is a very high turnover rate. I would have to look at overall comparative standards, but even so it is still very high. If that is becoming the average rate overall, then we definitely need to look at how labor is organized.

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

Safeway Stores is a unionized corporation and has about the same turnover rate as WalMart. This rate is indicative of the retail market as a whole.

Part of the reason that this rate is high at these two corporations is the fact that both sell a very low margin product. The prices at Safeway are higher for identical items than WalMart beause they have to adjust for added employee benefits provided to employees. Both corporations have similiar starting salaries depending upon area of the country and advancement up the pay scale is slower than in many other areas of employment.

Please correct or clarify if I am not interpreting data correctly.

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[-] 1 points by mkmkmk (5) 2 years ago

I think you need to read a couple books on economics. That is a silly oversimplification.

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[-] -1 points by pinker (586) 2 years ago

I agree. As long as you don't hurt others you are free do speak out in what way you please. But Walmart is still private property, so you should take care of yourselves.

[-] 1 points by BNB (89) 2 years ago

It would be interesting to trace that properties ownership back to the original owner and then see how he/she acquired it.

[-] 2 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 2 years ago

Exactly. Private enterprise has recieved massive taxpayer bailouts and subsidies from the government for a long time f.ex. Lots of cash earned by hard working people has been given to private business to keep it viable. Just because something is now private property by law doesnt necessarily make it right nor unchangable.

http://struggleforfreedom.blogg.no/

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[-] -1 points by pinker (586) 2 years ago

Yes it would. Perhaps pioneers given land by the government.

[-] 0 points by sufinaga (513) 2 years ago

STOLEN LAND so they, royalty and freemasons got their capital for free. we need to seize the land for all!! this is OUR LAND we claim it in the name of the people!

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[-] -1 points by DonQuijote (55) from West Springfield, MA 2 years ago

oh wow, if you would put your money where your mouth is it be a whole different world. Michael Moore DOES take care of his employees REALLY well. If wal-mart did the same, nobody would be complaining. Google the benefits Michael Moore gives his workers.

[-] 1 points by pinker (586) 2 years ago

Also. all this talk of corporations and owners making all that money. Look at any movie set and compare what the actors like Pitt make compared to the crew. It's just as obscene as any CEO's pay.

[-] 1 points by pinker (586) 2 years ago

Do all workers on his sets make the same or near the same he does? Are the distribution points they get equal or near to what he and the producers get? I'm sure he treats them well, but are his productions democratically run? Everyone is truly equal?

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

I understand that the a lot of WALMART if for sale. Just buy some stock and you got your share.

[-] 1 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 2 years ago

No, I want democracy.

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[-] -1 points by fatherlenin (1) 2 years ago

Take over? No, why don't you start your own Walmart and pay your employees a wage YOU think is fair.

That is what people do in a democracy. You don't take anything from anyone.

[-] 2 points by alexrai (851) 2 years ago

How could you possibly compete with a company with that kind of buying power? Plus it isn't like your going to get a loan from any of the bailed out mega banks.

Better option is to start a union organizing campaign at Walmart; but to do that, we'll first have to take back our government because they've spent 50 years basically gutting worker's rights.

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[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

So you are another one of the defeatest group who love to say "it can't be done" Have you no concept of what history can teach, do you know that history exists. Who do you think that WalMart put out of business (for all practical purposes) before they rose to the top. Go down another layer of history - where is your local Woolworths' Store in your town? Was there one there at one time, almost every town in the country had one.

alexrai - somewhere out there in your great land of oz, there echos the same question that K-Mart asked about Woolworths, and WalMart asked about K-mart. "How could you possibly.........."

By the way, that question has already been asked regarding WalMart and it has been answered by Alco, Family Dollar, BigLots and any of a dozen other retail giants. And my guess is that someone, somewhere is still asking the question, "How could I possibly." The difference is "you" and "I" so far as this part of the American Dream is concerned.

If your American Dream has turned into a long nightmare you might check what you have been eating, or better yet, what you have been FED before you turn off the lights tonight.

Along with all of this, check to see which companies were union companies and how that change worked out for them.

And if it will lift your spirits a little, WalMart represents ONLY 8% of US retail sales. Kinda a 92% vs the 8% dragon.

Sleep well, and whatever you do, buy K-Mart you will be supporting union jobs.

[-] 3 points by alexrai (851) 2 years ago

A lot has happened since the early 1960s. Globalization being one of those things, if it was once possible to start a big box retail chain by saving up money at a minimum wage job, or asking a kind banker for a loan. Those days ended long ago.

It might be possible to see a venture capital company, but I bet the first question they ask is: How can you compete with Walmart? They have options on all the prime retail space around cities, and they have massive economies of scale, and sophisticated logistics systems which no startup can compete with. Again, different than the 1960s.

Incidentally: Alco by the look of things started in 1901, went Chapter 11, and was refinanced with GE. Not exactly an American Dream story.

You sound like a real union hater, but hey; Businesses get the unions they deserve. If Walmart did not treat its employees like crap, it would not have to bribe politicians to get rid of labour laws.

Oh and please visit Vancouver some day; they did not allow Walmarts until very recently, and guess what? There are tons and tons of small little shops which compete with each other, and prices are as good if not better than Walmart. There are also tons and tons of small merchants living the Canadian dream, instead of a few fat cat executives making Millions of their under payed workers and small Chinese children.

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

VANCOVER - beautiful area. And what % of your population if of oriental descent??

I used to buy from Pearl, in downtown LA. Now there was a lady with both class and connections who could outprice WalMart any day on a very wide selection of artifical plants. And sadly, her workers were probably under paid and were actually children (on weekends at least) but what could I say, they were her children.

I think ALCO is an American Dream. But please help me out here do they still owe a lot to GE?? They seem to have a business plan that works - I am sure you have shopped in one, basically a skinny WalMart in an area where WalMart doesn't want to go and they seem to be doing well.

And, yes, I would expect to be asked the question about how I could compete. If I didn't have a business plan that would hold up to their standards, I would not expect their money.

About all the options, NO NO NO. They may have the option on one piece of property in one particular place or maybe even two - that is called avanced planning. On ALL the property, I don't think so unless you are from an area with very extremely limitied vacant retail zoned land.. That is why when a WalMart goes in, a slew of other businesses surround it from Home Depot to Lowes to chain restaurants. The businesses around one of our WalMart locations include a sole owner jewelry store, an independent tire store, a medical clinic, independently owned chain motel. At one time, we had an independent grocery that could run rings around WalMart by running their own trucks to California and bringing produce to their stores at prices WalMart never tried to meet. (since sold to an even bigger grocery chain)

I am not a union hater, never belonged to one, my wife did for awhile. I am simply attempting to put some ideas, and possibilities and facts out there for you to arrive at your own conclusions. I did not make any conclusions and try to force them on anyone

[-] 1 points by alexrai (851) 2 years ago

Quite a few for sure, in Richmond (a southern suburb) you can't even read the signs; but I like the non-corporate model, you can still buy bottled milk at the local grocer by my friends place. Hastings st. Is lined with small artsy shops, and you can get a big plastic container of grapes for like $1.25 at the tiny Asian markets.

I'm not sure about Alco, in fairness it appears that whatever steps were taken after the re-financing worked out quite well; but we're still dealing with a company that is over 100 years old, already had a number of buildings, capital assets, staff, and a distribution system; then had a large infusion of capital, that was my point.

It's a different situation than Average Joe attempting to go to a bank in 2011 to loan acquire a multi-million dollar loan to start a big box retain chain (a notoriously difficult racket to make a profit in at the best of times).

Walmart competes on a low-cost model, and it is amazingly efficient. Businesses competing on a high service/value added model stand a chance; businesses with established locations and brand equity also stand a chance; its theoretically possible I suppose to start up a new retail chain and compete on cost, but it would take a serious business plan, serious capital, and a level of expertise that most people in America simply don't have... and on top of that a better economic outlook, and some good luck; and it certainly would not happen overnight.

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

I just don't fully understanding your reasoning. Did any of today's big box stores start out as big box stores. It seems to me that K-Mart used to be a 5-10 cent store operating under the banner of SSK.... and worked its way up. WalMart certainly did not start out as a big box store - more like a single Ben Franklin I think.

Perhaps this is a completely different area with a vastly distorted look at the TIME factor. There is a great difference in starting a chain like K'Mart in the 1960's and working up to a multitude of stores and your comparison of walking into a bank and having instant gratification of owning and operating a big box store the next day. Assuming that you are in your twenties, you have 50 years to get your chain of big box stores going. The life cycle of the usual chain such as K-Mart is around 30-40 years and they have exceeded that and are now in decline

You have made the assumption that the same thing won't happen to WalMart. You just can't seem to see the challenge of being there when they start their decline.

Most of the people in America are not expected to have the level of expertise that would be required to open that store, but how does that in any way impede the fact that it could be done. Please remember that there was only ONE Sam Walton and that was all it took.

And now to ALCO. If that chain had not re-invented themselves they would also be in the heap of history. Alco is operating out of new store buildings with a new business plan. They are just being successful in the same way that any other local store could be under the right leadership. Surviving over 100 with that level of success is almost unheard of - GE loan or not.

It really seems that this site reflects the lack of vision, leadership and drive to do what it would take to counter what you see as the impossible.. BUT you know what I think - I think those young people are out there today making their plans, getting an education in business and the world, setting up financial plans and they will be the next big box store owners and operators.

There are a thousand reasons why it can't be done and you and you have regurgitated several of them "It's a different situation", "this stands a chance" and "that stands a chance"

Why are the majority of the post on all of these forums based on a defeatist attitude that the only solution is to PULLdown what exists rather than show some initiative involving "boot straps"

Please take a minute to look through the posts and note the totally defeatist attitude, the we will tear down what we don't like or see as an barricade in out path to instant gratification.

If I had a big bone to throw at each of the posts on here, we could probably move on with some success in all areas of concern being mentioned and get rid of the defeatist posts and "poor little me" attitudes being expressed herein.

[-] 1 points by alexrai (851) 2 years ago

Fair enough, maybe it is theoretically possible to compete with them if you had 50 years; I still think its a much more difficult proposition in 2011 than it was even in 1980, let alone 1960.

Globalization, technology, and accumulated purchasing power are pretty serious barriers to entry. Not sure if that's defeatist, I think its just being realistic, and if I ever start a business it certainly isn't going to be a department store. Walmart clearly owns that category when even established players like Alco have to base their business model around what Walmart is doing to avoid going chapter 11 for the second time.

Either way, I think the main problem is still capital. To get a bank loan in Canada (I assume its the same down there) you need to give a personal guarantee, so you either need to be rich, or you need very nice family or friends who are rich.

VC Firms do not care about small businesses, so then what do you do if have a good idea but are unemployed or underemployed?

I look at it like this. I suck at Golf, if I try as hard as I can each shot, I might make par once every few games. A pro makes par or less almost every time putting in the same amount of effort I do. That is the situation the general population is in, but the stakes are much higher for missing a shot; and there is a substantial advantage to other players who are not starting out with a monetary handicap.

Statistically, if 100 people put in the effort, maybe one does ok. Maybe fewer in this economy (which is gone to crap specifically because of globalization). That is a pretty expensive lottery ticket that most people simply can't afford.

The government needs to address the issues of income inequality, financing, and employment; if those issues are not addressed soon OWS will look quite tame compared to what will be happening in another 10 years.

You know what the simplest interim solution would be? Bring back trade barriers. Then Walmart would have to buy American, creating huge numbers of new jobs.

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

In the meantime those same barriers put a lot of farmers out of business who depend on American exporting their goods to the world. Think I would rather have WalMart down the street doing their thing than to walk in and find my local grocery shelves empty though we would probably have tanker trucks lined up for miles trying to off load ethanol.

And if you want to come close to par in golf, partner up with someone who constantly shoots under and consider that as a team you are doing pretty D____ well.

This all gets back to the most overriding control of people today, who think that it all about ME. Read through the posts here and see what it is all about, ME ME ME ME.

Maybe I should write a book and sell it for $45.00.

Give me $25,000 for a small business loan and I will put you into a retail business that has the potential (depending on how hard you want to work) of grossing $1,000 per day with a gross profit margin of 50-75%. You can sell 100% American purchased goods and feel good that you are not a big importer like WalMart. PS, you will also become one of the largest recyclers in your city.

Been there, done that and the family tradition continues.

[-] 1 points by wewontgetfooledagain (23) 2 years ago

"In the meantime those same barriers put a lot of farmers out of business who depend on American exporting their goods to the world."

How so if trade is equally balanced i.e. the amount exported = amount imported? There should be no trade DEFICIT.

https://www.uschina.org/statistics/tradetable.html

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

And who, in your plan, would decide and set priorities for the equal export-import ratio. Let's say that food commodities is 01. export priority, then the 01. import priority has to be oil to produce that commodity, from this point on, the process belongs to the import side because our imports far exceed those of our exports.

This process might set a few advantageous priorities and might get rid of all those nasty imports into WalMart thus increasing manufacturing in the US BUT, at what point do we cut our own throats by then, not being able to export anymore because we don't need to import any more.

Those companies that are dependent upon exports will at some point be cut off by the maximum imports that we can have and thus they will downsize.

[-] 1 points by wewontgetfooledagain (23) 2 years ago

I'm not informed enough to know who should decide and set priorities for the equal export-import ratio. Probably a group/think tank of economists as far removed from corporate importer and foreign exporter influence as possible. It would not surprise me to see someone(s) try to pay them off to get their way. Trade doesn't have to be 100% equal. I just know that it hurts the US economy when we have a deficit, factories closed and jobs were lost. What was it before the huge imports of clothing, electronics, cars, etc. started? Seems like we should go back to that. I like the ~1975 trade surplus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balance_of_trade

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balance_of_trade#United_States_Trade_Deficit

"To keep Chinese products artificially inexpensive on U.S. store shelves, Beijing undervalues the yuan by 40%. It accomplishes this by printing yuan and selling those for dollars and other currencies in foreign exchange markets."

http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-03-10/markets/29974127_1_deficit-subtracts-trade-deficit-job-seekers

China uses dirty tricks and slave labor/wages to grow stronger and it's absurd that the USA allows these tactics and imports. I bet if corporate lobbying/influence were removed/never there, this would not have happened or at least not so much and for so long. I like the idea of "free trade" until it hurts our economy and jobs and we get tainted products. Too much of a good thing. China should also have to pay and treat workers fairly.

http://useconomy.about.com/od/tradepolicy/p/Trade_Deficit.htm

Seems like there should also be some US government caps on oil/gas prices if possible since the oil companies are making far too many billions of $ at the consumers expense. Would it be possible to cap gas prices at say $2/gallon?

No doubt US automakers needed to get more innovative 30-40 years ago when Honda Civics started showing up. But it's up to lawmakers to control imports. I believe some countries have higher taxes or tariffs on imports to protect their economies and industries/jobs. Shouldn't the USA be protecting its big industries including carmakers? Would they need bailouts if auto imports and/or gas prices were reduced? Who was it that gave big tax breaks for buying gas guzzling SUVs, causing a mess when gas prices went up (surprise)? Bush, who has ties to the oil industry.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2003-01-20-suvs_x.htm

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0208-05.htm

NEVER vote Republican! I don't think any party can fix the messes until corporate lobbying is outlawed/influence removed but Republicans are ALWAYS on the side of the 1%. How soon people forget and vote another and another into office.

[-] 1 points by wewontgetfooledagain (23) 2 years ago

Yes it seems that the price of oil is fixed by traders and overinflated. So the lawmakers would have to figure out how to cap it all (gas, diesel, heating oil, etc.) with a new system and continue working on conservation. Oil has been held back to decrease supply and increase prices. It's a big game and the joke is on us.

If someone got rid of a clunker and replaced it with a more fuel efficient car, that's a good thing but taxpayers should not be paying for it. But far more was spent on just a few war aircraft than the entire Cash for Clunkers program.

I agree that there is no easy or simple solution but history has proven what worked in the past. I don't think there should be any large sudden changes in trade and anything like restrictions may need to happen gradually over 5-20 years to avoid turmoil.

I'm not for dismantling the 1%, just that they should be required to do better and play more fairly. We're talking about obscene profits at the expense of the 99%. The 1% used to have everything made in the USA and they did fine. Then they got greedy and took advantage of slave labor wages in other countries. Certainly the 1% should not have been given tax cuts. The 1% have the money to lobby and the 99% don't, so if politicians are for the people they need to outlaw lobbying. That's a start.

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

You will get fooled again IF you don't have a pretty good understanding of how things work today (right or wrong, you simply have to know that first)

  1. Do you know who or by what means the value of a barrel of oil is determined and why it is almost universally priced at the same price. In other words, what is the benchmark for the value of that barrel of oil? HINT - it is much closer to home than you might think.

  2. Sure we could cap gas prices at say $2.00 per gallon. I have no problem with that. I do have a problem with the resulting doubling of the price of fertilizer, the horrific cost of food as a result of doubling the price of diesel fuel, the fact that prices of everything else would go up due to the increase in transportation costs which are largely dependent on the cost of diesel fuel (trucks, trains, buses etc.) However, I am thinking that those drivers who have a gasoline powered semi would be making a killing and in effect putting most of the over-the-road diesels out of business, and thus increasing the demand for gasoline to the point that that $2.00 could no longer hold and it would probably go to $4.00 per gallon.

And do you remember that great "Cash for Clunkers" Program? Who was President at that time, really doesnt make any difference. That program is why the prices of used cars skyrocketed overnight. They were simply removed from the capitalistic market and crushed instead of being fed into the used car market.

MY POINT being - There may be a lot of ideas out there, but there is no simple solution. We live in a very interdependent world that took several hundred years to form. In one way or another it is all related and all connected.

Does anyone have a real good plan for dismantling the 1% without causing the rest of the world's system to collapse on our heads?? Best we get that plan in place before we start the hangings and plundering.

Isolate and address problems, but realize there is no easy solution to the whole enchilada.

Just the way I see it from out in the SouthWest.

[-] 0 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 2 years ago

read my answers to pinker below.

"You don't take anything from anyone"

Oh, so no bailouts and profitting from other people´s work then..?

[-] 3 points by aeturnus (231) from Robbinsville, NC 2 years ago

Probably a lot more. WalMart has operated horribly since its conception, using militant tactics to strategize its position in the global economy, and driving forth incentives to force the closure of small businesses who couldn't compete with the rampant abuses disguised as a free-market love story. Some towns have even tried to stop WalMart from entering. I suspect the number of small shops hurt by WalMart's activities far outweigh any of the shops hurt by OWS in their occupations.

So, WalMart, if you continue in your attempts to usurp the economy and drive your draconian measures onto our cities and towns, then you best be prepared ...You might be seeing us bringing it straight to your door, from town to town, city to city. In union we stand!

[-] 2 points by pinker (586) 2 years ago

Poor people were held captive by overpriced goods in small stores/corner stores. Toilet paper is a human dignity all should be able to afford. I would poll the people who are shopping in Walmart to see what they want.

[-] 2 points by wewontgetfooledagain (23) 2 years ago

So before Walmart no one could afford toilet paper? LOL! Last I checked it's fairly priced at any grocery store and they have sales every week. Never need to buy it elsewhere.

[-] -1 points by pinker (586) 2 years ago

Easy enough for those of us who have no kids or a job that affords them more choices, but poor families are the ones who appreciate Walmart. I suppose one could wait around for a sale before buying TP? You need to check again.

This is not in defense of Walmart, it is in defense of poor families and not judging them.

[-] 1 points by wewontgetfooledagain (23) 2 years ago

And why are there too many poor families? One big reason is that unemployment is too high. Why is unemployment too high? One big reason is because Walmart and other companies shipped millions of good paying manufacturing jobs overseas because they got too greedy and the US government allowed it. Poor families that can't afford college need train on the job manufacturing jobs and jobs that include college as a benefit. And not everyone is smart enough or has the grades or time for college so they also need manufacturing jobs. Manufacturing also employs many college grads who need jobs.

Yes waiting for sales is a great way to save money on groceries. I buy everything half price when it goes on sale at a top grocery store chain and pay less than I would elsewhere. And there is little waiting because many items go on sale every week. And there's also free coupons to save more. Websites like www.southernsavers.com help you do this. Walmart's grocery department sucks compared to where I shop. I get much bigger selection, better food and lower prices. Poor people need to eat better and will appreciate this.

It's not just poor people shopping at Walmart. People shop there because they have fewer choices than they had before Walmart put so many stores out of business with Chinese imports.

[-] -1 points by pinker (586) 2 years ago

I'm not debating the whys. I was respondng to a post about occupying a Walmart in a poor area. I don't think a poor, single mom has the luxury to sit around pondering business practices.

[-] 1 points by wewontgetfooledagain (23) 2 years ago

Not everyone who is poor is a single mom and I think the poor can make a difference if they speak up. I don't think it matters which stores OWS is at and the point is to draw national attention to the issues. However since Walmart and other large corporations mass importing goods advertise on TV I'm guessing this didn't get much national TV coverage. Corporations run the mass media too, and media profits depend on corporate advertising. So we the people, the 99%, need to keep plugging away on the internet.

FOX News Reporters Fired For Telling The Truth http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZkDikRLQrw

same video with interesting "About This Video" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcjzdoiL0j4

The Corporation (complete, chapters 1 to 23) http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=FA50FBC214A6CE87

Are you ready for the Breakdown? http://www.madeinusa.org/breakdown.html

http://www.madeinusa.org/

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Products would be cheaper too.

We, the consumers paid for all that nefarious activity.

[-] 2 points by shoesandtables (20) 2 years ago

Walmart needs to UNIONIZE all across the country!! The workers there, if they organize collectively, have so much power!! -- and they work for the largest corporation IN THE WORLD!!

[-] 2 points by JosephCouture (45) 2 years ago

If you don’t care for unpleasant truths, now is your last chance to turn away. People have been saying the world is experiencing a great awakening- and I just got a glimpse of what that really means.

Look for yourself if you dare. Read “Awakening To the Nightmare” at www.josephcouture.com

[-] 1 points by fiverrah (15) 2 years ago

I spent a very enjoyable morning reading your well written and thought provoking essays.

Worth reading people!

[-] 2 points by demcapitalist (977) 2 years ago

Can you imagine the jobs if that made all that stuff in America?

[-] 1 points by quercus (93) 2 years ago

no, i can not imagine. would, that i could, the (belief) structure of god/humanity 'belief system' is a bit much for me.

i am at that point 'in my life' where rage, gentle, kind-ness, generousity, needs to be re-defined.

be-ware: the hierarchy of worse-bad-good-better-best, is a class-cognitive nomenclature paradigm.

are you surprised education, (aka knowledge, free speech is now being codified as copy-right-patents) owned and controlled by the NEW comptrollers?

[-] 1 points by aries (463) from Nutley, NJ 2 years ago

I love Walmart

[-] 1 points by aries (463) from Nutley, NJ 2 years ago

the "poor" workers are free not to work there.

[-] 1 points by xxcONScIENcExx (172) 2 years ago

In my America, that's a cheap cop out. The point of the post was not the workers or their wages. The point was the misuse of revenue by a corporation that is so ethically and financially responsible to billions of dollars of revenue and wages in our country to corrupt and undermine our political system. The irony in this is that you vote to elect candidates into office to "represent" you while earning and/or spending your paycheck with a corporation that ultimately tells your "representative" how to represent you as a constituent. Make sense now?

[-] 1 points by MaerF0x0 (15) 2 years ago

walmart has about 2,000,000 employees, so they could give each of them about $3.50 if they cut their campaigns.

[-] 1 points by aries (463) from Nutley, NJ 2 years ago

and once the employees get use to that they will want another 3.50. Supply & demand determines wages - not your whim - or what you think is fair. If you want higher pay get higher skills.

[-] 1 points by meep (233) 2 years ago

14.3 billion in profits / 2.1 million employees ~ $7,000 per year ~ $3.5/hour

That's a pretty decent pay raise.

[edit: that calculation assumes a 40 hour work week, since a lot of employees are part time the actual hourly wage increase might actually be higher...]

[edit 2: $8,990 / 2.1 million employees is less than a penny an hour wage increase if the CEO worked for nothing, so the CEO's pay isn't really a big issue here]

[-] 1 points by Danimal98367 (188) from Port Orchard, WA 2 years ago

[edit 3: the question was what if they didn't spend $4.3 million on political contributions and lobbying . . . $4.3 million / 2.1 million employees is $2.05 a year . . . or 1/10 of 1 penny per hour.]

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[-] 1 points by fatherlenin (1) 2 years ago

About an dollar a day, just like they do in China.

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[-] -1 points by classynancy (-73) 2 years ago

You moron, if they took every dollar of their entire profit of $16 B (forget what they spent on lobbying) and paid all 2.1 Million pf their workers with it, it would come out to $6,000 more per year or $3 per hour. Oh yeah, by the way, then the company would be out of business since they wouldn't have any money to invest in remodeling stores or other capital investments and the billions of people who own their stock would dump it in favor of a bank account (which is probably about the equivalent of investing in Walmart right now anyway!) Then the 2.1 M workers would be out of a job.

Great work, you just came up with a way of letting go of 2.1 M people, remind me to not elect you to the board of directors of my company!

[-] -1 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

Yes, I can and I have already answered your question. It amounts to 1/2 of one cent for every time you walk into WalMart. You go once a week, you would be off setting ONLY 1/2 or 1cent of that donations.

And you expect to give how much of a raise to 1.2 million workers at WalMart.

[-] -3 points by mandodod (144) 2 years ago

Kind of like the unions standing with you? How they take union dues and give money to the DNC? (lobbying?) What is the difference? It adds up to millions of bucks. I think that if you post here you are required to have a brain.

[-] 3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Those monies go to help the 99%

WalMart? Not so much.

Why do you HATE unions?

[-] -2 points by mandodod (144) 2 years ago

Unions are corrupt. Can't have it both ways. You are a hypocrite. More and more States will force the unions out of power. Public sector unions are going away fast. The Post Office unions are going away. There is no money for new contracts. Old style pensions will be replaced by a 401k system. You will not need unions after that. It is already going on in the big cities. 401k is the future . The Federal Government saw the handwriting on the wall 30 years ago and switched to a 401k type plan called the TSP.

[-] 4 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Corporations are corrupt. You have it backwards.

Republicans help them a lot.

Due to a bill Bush signed, just as he left office, the USPS has to suddenly fully fund it's pensions out 75 years in advance.

That was while the economy was crashing and burning.

He was still in for a bit of union busting. I wonder who paid for that bill?

Oh, yeah! We did!

No unions ever got anywhere near that in it's contract.

Now, couple that fact, with all the anti-union marketing/PR you've been listening to. Stuff from those corporate sponsored marketing/PR firms.

Rush gets paid by them for almost everything he says. Every idea he puts out there.

Now, tell me again, how unions aren't part of the 99%?

[-] -2 points by mandodod (144) 2 years ago

Unions are corrupt. Thay give money from union dues to the DNC. Without even asking. They give big money to big politics. To the tune of millions. You are a hypocrite. You are a fake. Can't have it both ways. Can't say corporations are evil and say it's OK for the unions to give to the DNC. Plain and simple. Plain and simple.

[-] 4 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

No comment on the republican plot?

I don't believe in coincidence.

You do.

You're corrupt.

Plainer and simpler.

[-] 0 points by mandodod (144) 2 years ago

Plot or no plot, the Post Office really needs to clean up. Really, way too many folks. Email and bill pay has changed things. Just do not need a zillion post office folks any longer. They get paid a ton and have better healthcare than the regular feds. By far! And the redular Fed workers have really good healthcare. I'm not kidding about the junk mail. I know that is how they make money but it is still junk mail!!!!! Huge layoffs are coming soon to a neighborhood near you. Happy Thankgiving. Time to prep dinner for tomorrow.

[-] 2 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

They don't get paid a ton.

[-] -2 points by mandodod (144) 2 years ago

If you stand with the unions you are a hypocrite. Plain and simple. They give millions to the DNC. You hate it when corporations give to politics. What is the difference. There is no difference. It is all the same. That is the number one thing you want to stop. The DNC is politics!!!!

[-] 3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

There is a huge difference in the amount of monies given and how it is accounted for.

Like I said, those monies are given to help the 99%.

Now, will you answer my question?

Who do you HATE unions?

[-] -1 points by mandodod (144) 2 years ago

Nope, that will not answer the question. You are a hypocrite. Can't have it both ways. Why should unions take from republican workers pockets and give to the DNC without asking them? Do you think that is fair? Do you think that folks should have to be in a union? There is no difference, big money to the tune of millions to the DNC. You do not have a brain.

[-] 3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Because all workers in a given union are covered by the same bargaining contract.

Yes, I think all workers in a given organization should have the right to collective bargaining.

Are you going to answer my question now?

[-] -1 points by mandodod (144) 2 years ago

I already did? Maybe there is someone there that can help you?

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

No, you didn't

Short attention span I guess.

Union, YES!

[-] -1 points by mandodod (144) 2 years ago

Get someone to go back and read everything for you. It's not your fault that you do not get it. There are people that can help you.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

I don't need help, you do.

You missed it.

Ask your doctor about ritalin.

[-] -1 points by mandodod (144) 2 years ago

They don't use ritalin anymore. You are a hypocrite. Can't have it both ways. Can't say it's OK for one but not another. Unions give millions to politics. OWS says that is wrong but you let the unions stand with you anyway. Hypocrite.

[-] 4 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Sorry, I'm old that's what they used back when I cared. So lay off the Red Bull then.

Corporations give billions. Plus all the think tanks, front groups, astro turffer's, marketing/PR firms, etc. Unions can't touch that, and you know it.

You're the hypocrite.

Have you been drinking the RupertRush juice again?

[-] -1 points by mandodod (144) 2 years ago

Look, even if the corporations give zillions to politics and the unions only give millions, it is still the same and you know it. They are both corrupt. I did have a bunch of coffee! I'm saying both are bad news. OWS needs to stay away from the unions. Just looks creepy. Hypocrite. I am right. Unions are dead. Or will be soon.

[-] 3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Union members are the 99%.

Their organizations are democratic.

Not so with corporations. They are tyrannical.

Why do you support tyranny?

No difference between zillions and millions? I suppose you're pissed about the budget deficit.

And you call me a hypocrite?

[-] -3 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

NO, exactly how much more could they pay their workers??

[-] 1 points by xxcONScIENcExx (172) 2 years ago

ronjj-- we will never know... the facts above are just what was reported. having worked in an executive position at a large retail chain, i can tell you that what was reported in terms of lobbying dollars is an extremely small percentage of the actual amount when you take into consideration all of the special interests that are important to such a behemoth.

Comments should be closed for this posting. I think it's pretty well explained above without involving my comments or the genius of "ronjj" -

[-] -1 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

Let me answer that for you. Related to weeks sales alone, that would amount to less than 1/2 cent per week for all (not each) of their employees for every time you go into WalMart that week.

That 1/2 cent would then be divided among their 1.2 million employees.

[-] 4 points by xxcONScIENcExx (172) 2 years ago

And I would like to answer something for you.... While we banter back and forth here... dividing up Wal-Marts billions of revenue and increased profits generated by corporate brutality on its employees, the environment, and other businesses, corporations like this are undermining our entire political system and democracy. The representatives that you and I vote into office are being bought and sold to the highest bidder. There is no spin or slant on that fact. You have been sold out by this corporation and your own government ronjj.... and you apparently don't even know it. Man they got you good...

[-] 6 points by vicfan (4) 2 years ago

I wonder if the CEO can show how he/she works a thousand times harder than the average worker.

[-] 1 points by myers73 (6) from Orlando, FL 2 years ago

He is ultimately responsible for almost 2,000,000 people worldwide receiving a paycheck every week. That can't be too hard...

[-] 1 points by jdnreha (85) 2 years ago

If it was easy, why don't the average joe do it? Also, The CEO in a company like Walmart works almost 24/7. The guy who mops the floor could give a crap (ive been there). while the CEO may not appear to work harder, they have to take in more information and process it the best they can.

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[-] -1 points by Danimal98367 (188) from Port Orchard, WA 2 years ago

Easily. The CEO's decisions affect the viability of the entire company while the average worker's decisions affect how well the aisle gets mopped.

[-] 3 points by dealdoctor (148) 2 years ago

On that basis of thought a new baby should simply be allowed to die because it only sucks the life out of others. Cogs in a machine really are human doings but then again others think we should be human beings. The guy with the mop is one or the other and it is up to you to decide how you will treat him. The CEO and the mopper both are not the MOP!

[-] 0 points by Danimal98367 (188) from Port Orchard, WA 2 years ago

You need to seperate human worth from effort worth. They are very different.

[-] 1 points by dealdoctor (148) 2 years ago

I agree they are very different. A hammer and a person are very different. If the hammer is used to drive a nail it is a good thing that is great. If it is used to kill a person that is not a good thing. When effort worth becomes a power hammer to harm people worth its use is improper. It is worthy that the CEO make more for talent and effort. It is not ok for them to make so much more or for their corporation to gouge so much that people value is harmed. This "monopoly game" is real and the best players can starve others and that is immoral. Talent used to a degree that it crushes people is misused talent. Justice will seek to balance effort worth and human worth to a degree that one need not harm the other. Today they are WAY out of balance. The individual with talent is no island but lives within a context of other people and the environment.

[-] 0 points by agnosticnixie (17) from Laval, QC 2 years ago

That's not working a thousand times harder. You didn't answer the question.

[-] 3 points by tryingheretoo (11) 2 years ago

Surely he refers to the CEO as some magical being who can make super market decisions that no other human is capable of even understanding, never makes mistakes, never looks stupid asking the help of the government, never gets his money from abusing slave workers abroad (as if that was a hard decision to make) and therefore deserves his pay for he is super important and irreplaceable. What is rather puzzling is that this ranting guy is definitively not the CEO nor does it look like he is line to become the next.

[-] 2 points by KirkVanHouten (123) 2 years ago

I worked hard raking the leaves from my lawn last weekend. Who's going to pay me for my hard work? You?

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 2 years ago

Why didn't you just have the Mexicans do it?

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by Danimal98367 (188) from Port Orchard, WA 2 years ago

If harder is sweat - no. If sweat = value to you, you really don't understand business.

Value is based on amount "in" exchanged for amount "out". The sweat of the aisle mopper may create a nicer environment for the people shopping in the store, but the amount of money the shopper saves at Walmart compared to having to visit several more expensive small shops in a day far outweighs the comfort of a mopped floor.

[-] 3 points by dealdoctor (148) 2 years ago

"the amount the shopper saves", you must mean the CASH amount as your standard of value. Perhaps there is a human value that both CEO and mopper share equally that is beyond any price or dollars saved by any shopper. Are your children just little "shopper saver machines". Gosh, are we all just " shoppers now? Shit, better get my bag and head to the store because right now I am just being not shopping. When money inserts itself into even the definition of persons much less into their value as persons it has overstepped its bounds. I mean really when you played Monopoly were you really just a little piece on someone's board? Was the winner really the most valuable kid? People invented money and the game of Monopoly. Ask two more questions.

[-] 0 points by Danimal98367 (188) from Port Orchard, WA 2 years ago

The value of labor is a cash (or barter) value.

Human worth is seperate. However, the virtue of being human does not give you permission to demand sustenance from me. I am not your slave.

[-] 1 points by dealdoctor (148) 2 years ago

I would prefer to think of us as both being members of the human family. When we no longer "crown her good with brotherhood" we are out of balance. A family with slaves is out of health. A family where all work to form a more perfect union and embrace cooperation rather than competition will be a more healthy family. Which has priority money or people? They both will be in the mix. I put people first but fully realize that any person being any other person's slave is wrong. I do not want you to work for me. I have three hard earned graduate degrees and have worked every day of my life since I was fifteen. I also am a vet. That said I am not a "worker". I am a person. Be honest, you are too, brother. A house is for the home. An economic system is for the people of the nation. When that gets reversed the shit hits the fan because the value of people as people is subordinated to other things. The value you give others is the value you embrace for yourself because you also are a person. Lazy is bad. The long lines at soup kitchens in the great depression were full of people, not lazy drones.

[-] 0 points by agnosticnixie (17) from Laval, QC 2 years ago

You're moving the goal posts. The question was "HARDER" nothing else.

[-] 4 points by mad58 (4) from Albany, OR 2 years ago

Good deal... but will those shoppers be able to break the mind-set that Wal-Mart helps them save money? Many of those struggling to make ends meet use Wal-Mart. These shoppers are not going to easily let go of cheap imported goods. How will the OWS movement address this?

[-] 4 points by vnayar (289) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

There's a lot of talk here about Wal Mart's profits, poor wages to workers, lack of benefits, etc. I feel there is a slight lack of information about the root causes of complaints about Wal Mart. I think it breaks down into two categories:

  1. Wal Mart takes massive local subsidies, passes most health care costs onto its employees, has special roads built for them, housing assistance for their workforce, etc. http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Corporate_Welfare/WalMart_Welfare.html

  2. Wal Mart lowers prices largely by buying from abroad and taking advantage of slavery like conditions. Everything is subcontracted, and they work through the most abusive, environmentally destructive, child labor using, and all around horrible producers.

Essentially, Wal Mart is a major outlet for all the trade agreements made in recent years like NAFTA and agreements with China.

Everyone supports business and competition on a level playing field, but there's something not quite right when Americans have to compete against slave labor. I think we need more "Fair Trade" and less "Free Trade". There should be minimum standards for child labor, education, worker rights, working conditions, etc. If a producer cannot meet those conditions, I think their products should be subject to a tariff.

[-] 4 points by damascus (7) from Bossier City, LA 2 years ago

In 1985 I worked in a Wal-Mart distribution center. I hated the way we were treated like criminals by loss prevention, and found a really cool way to "strike" back. I knew how anti union Wal-Mart is - they made sure we all knew their positions on unions. I began writing such things as "We need a union. Working conditions are terrible!" on slips of paper, and dropping those slips of paper into openings in large boxes, like for TVs or other appliances. The openings where you put your hands to lift a box were perfect. It wasn't long before some of the slips were discovered and Wal-Mart sent down a team to deal with the "crisis". They have a psychologist on their anti union staff! Every single employee was interviewed. I'm sure they tried to match up the handwriting but I had printed neatly with large Magic Markers that bled a little. In the end they installed a few new fans in that non air-conditioned facility where temps went well over 100 degrees. They fixed a few holes in the floor that were a safety hazard for forklifts. That was about it.

So that was my moment of glory while employed by the evil Wal-Mart beast. I bet it would work again...

[-] 4 points by adlogyram (4) 2 years ago

Hello, What about Microsoft? They bring lots of H1/L1 visa workers to replace Americans. They got rid of 5000 workers and replace them with L1 visa holders. Tata consultancy, WIPRO, Infosys and Cognizant are big into bringing H1/L1 holders. Most of the IT professionals don't get jobs because of this.

[-] 1 points by jdnreha (85) 2 years ago

There not evil. Some magical guy deemed it. or did you not get the memo?

[-] 4 points by johndenton47 (4) 2 years ago

Better hand out candy to the shoppers. Trust me, the people who shop there are not out on a whim. Paycheck to paycheck, they only survive buying teh Cheap. Also Women in particular feel social obligations, and everyone likes to Give a little this season. They will find the Buy Nothing message offensive if a shopper's mere presence is judged as bad. I would prefer to see a flash mob songfest in the big richy stores on Black Friday. I'll join that.

[-] 3 points by brooklynviking (8) 2 years ago

Walmart is one of the companies excluded from investment by Norway's ethics committee for their National Pension Trust, on these very grounds.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

Good on Norway.

[-] 3 points by Pennybags (3) 2 years ago

Dont forget the "Dead Peasants" Insurance Wal-Mart puts on its employees so they benefit if any of their employees die.

[-] 3 points by dawnduffy (3) 2 years ago

this is why my family and i never have shopped at walmart.

[-] 3 points by piewackett1 (5) 2 years ago

You left out Walmart's systematic discrimination against women, and the right-wing activist Supreme Court's dismissal of the class action suit.

[-] 3 points by Edwin (47) from Anseong-si, Gyeonggi-do 2 years ago

Never shop at Walmart. Never ever ever set foot inside.

[-] 3 points by eeverett (1) 2 years ago

How many people are aware that Walmart was one of the major forces that sent American jobs to China and that China has over 5 million prison slave workers? This is a must see video: http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/slaverya21stcenturyevil/2011/10/2011101091153782814.html

[-] 1 points by MiMi1026 (937) from Springfield, VA 2 years ago

I got a walmart down the street from me and refuse to shop there after I saw a documentary on PBS. Also women were not paid equally. There was a class action suit against walmart that was thrown out this year.I kicked walmart to the curb. I support small businesses.

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

2011 and you are just getting around to viewing a video on slave workers?. Were we not at one time, slaves to England, how about Mexico, Malyasia, Taiwan, Japan, India, have they not been slaves to us world at one time or another.

The Chinese will throw off the "slave worker" concept in a short period of time AND when you wake up, YOU will be the slave to those workers, because you will no longer be able to produce your own clean underwear.

If you are not aware of this truth - check the LG refrigerator in the store and compare it to Sears Elite line (same manufacturer) and top of the line - now who is the slave??

Been admiring those new KIA vehicles. Sky rocketing in quality and value. Welcome to slavery at its finest.

Dummies of the world are not confined to WalMart corporations. If you have too, climb to the top of a mountain and get a view of what the world is really about.

[-] 3 points by MiMi1026 (937) from Springfield, VA 2 years ago

Don't just boycott walmart,boycott all business that open on Thanksgiving day including your local supermarket. These business are taking advantage of the poor workers,by not letting them stay home on Thanksgiving day with their families to have a thankful meal.

[-] 1 points by BNB (89) 2 years ago

Actually, my work place gives you a choice and pays double that day.

[-] 0 points by lisaizonline (13) 2 years ago

Are you serious? Just because it is a holiday, no one should have to work?

[-] 2 points by MiMi1026 (937) from Springfield, VA 2 years ago

Im serious. I never said no one should work.I worked many a holiday,including TG and Xmas. Hospitals workers ,police officers,government workers have always worked on holidays. They are much needed. But consumerism on a national holiday..Thanksgiving at that is NOT a necessasity. Macys,Walmart ,Target and franchise supermarkets are not only taking advantage of their low wage workers,but the American public as well(if we let them). Boycott! The big boxes have now crossed the line.

[-] 0 points by lisaizonline (13) 2 years ago

Holiday pay is worth it to some.

[-] 0 points by nicck (3) 2 years ago

Nope don't boycott local places. Small businesses need revenue.

[-] 2 points by MiMi1026 (937) from Springfield, VA 2 years ago

I never included small business. The big boxes intent is to run the the small business OUT of business,by opening on TG and black friday at midnight. If you can't see that, we're in big trouble. Its called Monopoly!

[-] 2 points by Holly66 (2) 2 years ago

I'm concerned with the views I often see on line from the right that government should stay out of business - let businesses do what they need to do to make a buck. *Wake up people. Read some history and see what man is capable of - there are a helluva lot of greedy people out there who'll do anything. Really. You need limits! You need rules, laws, regulations. Open your eyes to see that there's not a limit to what many people will do to make money. Ethics mean little today to many in the Corporate world, on Wall Street and in DC. Of course we need an entity regulating what businesses should or should not be allowed to do. To anyone still naively thinking all businesses are ethical by nature, will never do the wrong thing to make money, it's time to wake up. US companies have moved your/our jobs out of the country to make more profits (97% of LL Bean's products are made out of the US wher costs are cheaper to name but one of thousands ...and yet consumers are still paying the same...this goes across the board - look at where the products you are buying are made...and look at the price you are paying for it!) If you believe businesses and wall street should not be told what they can/can't do, what's your opinon on child labor? Or selling potentially dangerous products to consumers? Thank goodness there are regulations or things would be much worse... No! The free rides over! I say wall street, big biz should have rules to abide by... like everyone else. They want "personhood", well they can have the drawbacks along with the benefits!

[-] 2 points by LeoYo (5878) 2 years ago

If a co-operative alternative to Walmart is going to be formed, what do we call it? Co-Mart?

[-] 2 points by SeaChange (134) 2 years ago

I support the ideas here, but I don't think this is a good tactic. It sounds like the tired old moralist interventions that the left has already been doing for decades. OWS should continue ushering in a new dynamic with new tactics.

The problem with this kind of approach is that it implies some kind of collusion on the part of the average people that are shopping at wal mart for largely economic reasons. It a sets up a rift between OWS and the 99% that we are representing. Honestly, it kind of makes it seem like we are "against Christmas" to the average shopper, who might not be so informed about these issues. I know the whole idea is to inform them of these issues, but then what do they do? Give up on their Christmas shopping and go home? Feel guilty? This just doesn't seem like a constructive tactic.

I think our energy is better spent elsewhere (by the way I think the Movement for Justice in El Barrio and the Thanksgiving meals are excellent projects). We should be directly engaging with our neighbors as friends and equals finding common cause, not as moralizers.

[-] 2 points by capitalistkryptonite (2) 2 years ago

What is wrong with you people? Get a job and quit blaming others for your lack of effort and work ethic. Your parents apparently never told you that life wasn’t fair. Get over it and quit living in tents and pay back your collage loans. You older hippies leading this charge should be ashamed of yourselves. You’re not the answer, you’re the problem! How dare you breach the peace and provoke anarchy with simple minded brain washed spoiled children. How many of you have given back anything to this country? I’ve served my entire adult life in the military and although I support your right to free speech, I have to ask again, what contribution have any of you made? If you received this comment, were did it come from and how are you reading it? Who is paying for that technology? I’ll answer that…..you aren’t. You wannabe hippies sicken me. Cradel to grave support is not what this country was founded on. If you don’t like the system we live in than vote. YOUR ALL IDIOTS.

[-] 1 points by wewontgetfooledagain (23) 2 years ago

So I'm an idiot for wanting to bring back the USA manufacturing jobs that were sent to China, end the huge trade deficit and keep the US economy and job market strong? You say "get a job" but unless you've been living under a rock you know that is often difficult to do these days since the unemployment rate (people without jobs despite looking for work) is very high. Many of us have or had jobs and were laid off, wages reduced or too low, no raises, etc. I was laid off because the company I worked for decided to move our department to a lower wage/income area in the boonies so they could pay lower wages.

Since you served in the military, let me ask you this question. Do you support spending over $1 trillion on wars over the past 10+ years? I fully support our military for defense purposes but not spending billions and trillions of taxpayer dollars on foreign and fake "wars" that could have been avoided, putting the US economy in great danger. I say fake because Bush lied - Saddam had no WMDs. I do not support wars based on lies. It's all about oil and other profits. Now you tell me why are gas prices so high? See what power China has now

http://newsbusters.org/forums/latest-news/china-threatens-u-s-treasury-war-bonds-14702

You say vote, and voters should be well informed by reading our posts, the TRUTH, not brainwashed by corporate lobbying, paid TV advertising etc. And until corporate lobbying/influence is outlawed I doubt any politician can fix things for the 99%. 99% of Americans don't have billions of dollars to lobby Washington and even if we did we'd put it to better use.

[-] 2 points by gjpc (10) from San Francisco, CA 2 years ago

The outrageously high "compensation" that top executives steal from corporate funds disillusion anyone that is actually working to increase the corporate funds. Furthermore, the greed of these top few is such an overriding principal of their behavior, they see contribution to the common welfare a burden instead of a responsibility. The 99% tax income tax bracket should be reinstated for all income over the average workers' lifetime income..

[-] 2 points by Geranimo (10) 2 years ago

Why We Shouldn't Celebrate Thanksgiving Thanksgiving Day should be turned into a National Day of Atonement to acknowledge the genocide of America's indigenous peoples. http://www.alternet.org/story/68170/

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

I agree 100%. Thanksgiving is nothing but a lie.... a white lie.

[-] 2 points by PatriotMissiles (37) 2 years ago

Fantastic idea. New ripples to the Occupy theme will only make the movement stronger and harder to contain by the elite. I believe one of the important themes of the movement is the way workers are treated by their employers and how this relationship deteriorates as the economy continues to sink. Taking the movement to one of the country's largest employers is a great way to deliver the message on a big stage and create a nationwide conversation on this topic.

To all the Tea Partiers Out There: The government has to subsidize the Wal Mart workforce with finanical and medical aid because Wal Mart doesn't pay them anything! Just thought you might be interested in that.

Closing Point:

Michael Corleone once said to, "Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer." Well this is where Mr. Bloomberg made a huge mistake in dispersing the park encamptment. Now he has protestors all over the city ready to occupy different parks, buildings, and companies at any given moment. Having the protestors in one predictable spot would have allowed him to monitor their activities and block their moves before they happened. These new tactics will prove much harder to stop and will make the movement much more fluid and effective.

[-] 2 points by Dramatica (2) from Elmira, NY 2 years ago

This is EXACTLY why I'm quitting this shithole. Walmart doesnt care about employees, only profits. Its a shame that americans cant see Walmart for what it REALLY is.. the greedy money machine that has NO sympathy for its employees rights, health or needs. (Customers included) Occupy ALL Walmart's around the country and all over the world!!!! SOLIDARITY!!!!!

[-] 1 points by myers73 (6) from Orlando, FL 2 years ago

It is America. You do have a choice of where you want to work and shop.

[-] 2 points by tsdevi (307) 2 years ago

I imagine how much better communities would be were it not for the development of Wal-Mart, a company that began by pretending to be an "all American made" company. We do not need these stores, as they do not alleviate budget pressures, they rely on poverty to stay in business. The ills of Wal-Mart have been so widely documented and it is a surprise that they have not been put out of business. The reason is that they are one of the three major employers in the U.S....along with the USPS and the US Military. Too many people are feeding off of the system.

[-] 2 points by Daniel1984 (44) from Wiley Ford, WV 2 years ago

When I was working at Wal Mart I tried to gather interest in a union. No one wanted any part of it because they are too afraid of being fired. Apparently, Wal Mart has a private team of union breakers that are deployed to any store where mention of a union reaches management's ears. Occupy the crap out of them. They are the epitome of evil empire.

[-] 2 points by willful (7) 2 years ago

I'm sure most of you are aware of the Buy Nothing Day(s) coming up. http://www.nextworldtv.com/page/5802.html Just wanted to put something else out there: I've committed to a Buy Nothing Year. Obviously I will buy food, etc. but I won't buy anything non essential, even 2nd hand clothing for a full 365 days. My wife always calls me a Wantmonster, and I admit, I grew up with money and didn't like to deny myself too much. I made this decision to not purchase anything for a year on the Summer Solstice (June 21) so I'm already at the 5 month mark.

If we all didn't buy all the useless junk (that usually doesn't last anyway) from Walmart and other big box stores, the small mom and pop businesses might actually have a chance.

I fully support and respect the efforts of the whole OWS//99% movement. Very inspiring!

[-] 2 points by sinead (474) 2 years ago

I think this is one of the best things I have heard coming from OWS. But please remember to be kind to any shoppers that do decide to shop there. So many people with very little income depend on Walmart to make some kind of Christmas for there families, and we can't blame them.

GOOD LUCK!! :)

[-] 2 points by NiceLovelyDay (55) 2 years ago

The Walton family did nothing to deserve this wealth.

[-] 2 points by Cjoy77 (4) 2 years ago

We not only need separation of church and state. But we need separation of corporation and state.

[-] 2 points by xOccupyx (66) 2 years ago

I agree with all the events OWS is doing. But...where is the event to show support to Tahrir? Tahrir supported Occupy, they sent us open letters of support, and they even marched on the US Embassy in Cairo for us.

Where is the OWS event to return the favor, to march on the Egyptian embassy and the Point Lookout Capital Partners - the mega-financiers manufacturing and selling crowd control weapons to Egypt - and give the Egyptian revolutionaries some hope and support?

I see lots of armchair Occupiers watching live feeds and hours of people in tents discussing Occupy; yet I've yet to see an event for Egypt come together.

Egyptian Embassy in NYC (Consulate General): 1110 Second Ave. – Suite 201 New York, NY 10022 TEL: 212.759.7120 FAX: 212.308.7643

Point Lookout Capital Partners 1370 Avenue-The Americas # 29 New York, NY 10019-4619 (917) 322-6437

Michael A. Monteleone Tel: 917-322-6437 mm@pointlookoutcapital.com

James J. Cesare Tel: 917-322-6438 jc@pointlookoutcapital.com

[-] 2 points by RobertUeberfeldt (44) from Kaikohe, Northland 2 years ago

I have, therefore, a recommendation for the Occupy movement, rightfully incensed as it is with the excesses of Wall Street over the last three decades. It is to call for an end to the state of emergency, which has been in force since 2001, under which since 2008 a U.S. Army Brigade Combat Team has been stationed permanently in the United States, in part to be ready “to help with civil unrest and crowd control. Prof. Peter Dale Scott

[-] 2 points by Anacleto (6) 2 years ago

VETO para todos estos personajes que han participado de alguna manera en las decisiones que han llevado a Colombia (y todos los demás países) a la situación en la que se encuentra. No supieron aprovechar la oportunidad de hacer algo bueno por el país, sólo por sus bolsillos. No más de estos funestos personajes, necesitamos sangre nueva para que de verdad este país tenga lo que se merece. VETO

[-] 2 points by USCitizenVoter (720) 2 years ago

If you work at Walley World then you must feel like your working on a Chain Gang. I feel sorry for you and I hope that some other jobs open up for you. Good Luck to you all.

[-] 2 points by OccupyforEarth (12) from Acushnet, MA 2 years ago

We really need to overhaul the minimum wage rules. It ws estimated an average family would need to make $22 per hour just to have the basics, and that's assuming their employer paid for health insurance! Walmart bragged about using solar and wind power, even though only 2 percent of their energy comes that way. I so agree with this boycott.

[-] 1 points by myers73 (6) from Orlando, FL 2 years ago

$22/hr per person? or combined?

[-] 1 points by OccupyforEarth (12) from Acushnet, MA 2 years ago

Per person!

[-] 2 points by ronimacarroni (1089) 2 years ago

FINALLY!

[-] 2 points by KnaveDave (357) 2 years ago

How about UNoccupying Walmart -- that is encouraging everyone everywhere NOT to go there on Thursday or Black Friday. You may gain special support on Thursday because many people find it distasteful that Walmart and others are now pushing their Black Friday sales up to Thursday, which requires their workers to be there on Thanksgiving just to make another buck. For a LONG time, people have been bothered that Christmas gets closer to Thanksgiving every year. This year Home Depot and others were putting out Christmas decorations before it was even Halloween! Now Walmart is starting it's Black Friday sale on Thursday -- Thanksgiving.

This runs is the exact opposite manner of the wishes of people in the OWS movement. It is even more rampant commercialism that is happening on a level that MOST Americans can readily join you in boycotting,

SO, UNOCCUPY WALMART ON THANKSGIVING. BOYCOTT IT. SPREAD THE NEWS FOR EVERYONE TO AVOID THEIR THANKSGIVING-DAY SALES COMPLETELY AND TO SHOP ELSEWHERE ON BLACK FRIDAY AS PUNISHMENT FOR THEIR GREED IN TRYING TO USURP A NATIONAL HOLIDAY FOR THEIR CORPORATE GREED.

--KnaveDave http://TheGreatRecession.info/blog

[-] 2 points by professorzed (308) from Hamilton, ON 2 years ago

This is an excellent idea.

[-] 2 points by Justice4all (133) 2 years ago

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hftb_DVuelo

Wal Mart the high price of low costs movie

[-] 2 points by BNB (89) 2 years ago

Wal-Mart would not exist if so many short-sighted people didn't patron the place. This does not excuse Wal-Marts tactics. I am just saying.

This thing mentioned above is cool, but unless everyone engages in some hardship and boycotts these killing machines and starts patroning more expensive and more ethical small businesses they will continue to flourish.

How many of the people heading over there to this thing have shopped at Wal-Mart in the last year? I hope none, but I don't know.

[-] 0 points by creswell (49) 2 years ago

BNB, I will not boycott WM because of their prices. We can't afford the "more expensive" small store's prices. How is this for an idea, get your socialist friends together, ask for a loan from family members and a bank/credit union, start your own business and compete against WM.

[-] 1 points by BNB (89) 2 years ago

or how about this? I keep boycotting Wal Mart because shopping there is not an option for me even though I rank close to the poverty level, and you keep doing whatever you like. You say you can't afford to basically not shop at Wal-Mart, but there are tons of not so visible costs that shopping at Wal-mart has. pS I am not sure that I even know what a socialist is. I am a guy that spends most of his time alone when not working 40 hrs a week doing manual labor.

[-] 2 points by jjordanw (14) 2 years ago

yes what if they took all that lobbying money and said, HEY, lets take care of our employees, lets take care of the people that are helping us make all this money, what can we do for them to make their lives better, instead, of how can we squeeeeeza a few more pennies out of them to put in our profits....

[-] 1 points by BNB (89) 2 years ago

Is that kind-of what Whole Foods Market does?

[-] 1 points by brown530 (1) from 泽西市, NJ 2 years ago

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[-] 1 points by WakeUp2011 (12) 2 years ago

Spreading the truth is crucial to creating the world we want to see. We need to wake up as many people as we can to get real change. Those that don't want to wake up can stay asleep. Keep spreading the word. Here's a start..

http://youtu.be/iRyjzCa7_AE

Research. Educate. Grow Awareness.

[-] 1 points by saveourfreedom (10) from Fairbanks, AK 2 years ago

don't you understand this is wrong. big business is not the problem. it is their right to grow, to pay their workers what they want. anything other that is don't right wrong. your taking away their freedom. if you don't want to work for low wages fine but making them pay higher wages will only lose more jobs and make it harder to find stuff in the store. every business has the right to run their company as they see fit. stop being like the government and trying to tell them what to do. instead if u want to fix are economy tell the government to back off. tell them to stop subsidizing and price controls. that will fix it. this is not something you should get be-hide if you don't understand it. think for yourself for a change. i will be happy to take emails if you want. (save.our.freedom@gmail.com) i beg you plz think for yourselves and relies that this is wrong. freedom is the most important

[-] 1 points by saveourfreedom (10) from Fairbanks, AK 2 years ago

my mistake my email is: plz.save.our.freedom@gmail.com srry for confusion

[-] 1 points by hajo (10) 2 years ago

Wall Marts are now pressurizing indian govt to pass the Bill to allow 100% FDI in brand retail market.

[-] 1 points by markcoby98 (3) 2 years ago

I bought a RCA digital converter box at Walmart $59.99. A few days latter I took my neighbor to a Kmart for a payment on her layaway. At Kmart the very same RCA box was $49.99! Not even on a sale, just regular price at the big K. Just goes to show you that the big smiling yellow face lies. Like Washington can not be trusted. A smile to your face, then stab you in the back as you leave. Also check this out; Walmarts prices on line & in store, it's always cheaper on line, if you do purchase a store item and tell them the on line price they will check and you will get the lower price.You need to know this when shopping there. But Walmart is sneaky, if you do not know about this Walmart won't tell you either. BEWARE THE SMILINGLY FACE!!

[-] 1 points by Magicmike (1) 2 years ago

Walmart does provide unskilled workers with a job and health care. They also provide very inexpensive goods and food for low income families. That's a pretty decent thing for a company to do.

[-] 1 points by zoom6000 (430) from St Petersburg, FL 2 years ago

They worry about there shity reputation They would but 1000 attorny to shutdown OWS

[-] 1 points by anoymous999978 (4) 2 years ago

I agree with protesting against wall Mart but where is the show of support?around Christmas, bad timing!

[-] 1 points by TheGrownUp (-1) 2 years ago

You are all idiots! Take a bath and go home, what your doing is a folly and hopeless, we are Capitalists and we are a Republic, not your little communist party or whatever your entitlement thinking is! GO HOME! Your worse than children!

[-] 1 points by Dane (5) 2 years ago

I wish I knew this was going on, I would have loved to have been there,I hate Wal-Mart, and refuse to give them my money.

[-] 1 points by Faithntruth (997) 2 years ago

I see a lot of people getting drawn into arguments about the rights of business, the value of hard work, or personal sacrifice. Small business is not the same as big business. To those souls brave enough and dedicated enough to try to run a small business, congratulations. However, you are not Walmart and Walmart has done more to harm small business than any previous chain store. Additionally, they are not good citizens of the US or the world. They legally cheat the US on taxes which harms the US while the tactic increases their profits, and their deal making policies ensure low paying jobs all around the globe. Their employee policies support the growth of the class of working poor in the US.

[-] 1 points by thunderchild (2) 2 years ago

Ummmmmmm, the reason they make those "obscene profits" is because they're a successful business with a large customer base, not because they're evil. Also, why? Why attack a store that 1. Provides jobs, really, there are a lot of unemployed out there, so working at Wal-Mart is better than nothing. 2. Because of its large customer base, they are successful, exemplifying the American Dream.

This "Occupy Wal-Mart" is only hurting the 99% you claim to work for. People can't give Wal-Mart money to support itself, and less money equals less to use it for, as seen with the state of our nation. Employees would suffer if you try this on a massive scale, and employees at that Wal-Mart won't have anyone to sell stuff to. Thus, they go home with less. People won't be able to get to the store, and thus, will have to spend more on gas to get to another, like Target. As you can see, you're only hurting those you seek to protect. I'm not a fascist, but a logical person who actually looks ahead. I'm not the fascist here.

[-] 1 points by thunderchild (2) 2 years ago

I was looking through some of the comments, and quite a bit had "Communism" written all over. America started on capitalism, and its greatest rival, Russia, was built on communism and socialism, and look what happened to them, while at the same time we prospered. You liberals need to look back at what went wrong and what went right before you go off and screw up the country even more.

[-] 1 points by wewontgetfooledagain (23) 2 years ago

Shootings, Pepper-Sprayed Shoppers on Black Friday

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/business/2011/11/woman-pepper-sprays-shoppers-at-l-a-walmart/

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/11/wal-mart-black-friday-marred-by-shootings-pepper-spray-attack-.html

Sad. And this sort of thing happens every year. Walmart can't afford good security and better Black Friday policies and practices?

[-] 1 points by tulsa1953 (1) 2 years ago

people just need to stop shopping there! that is how profits are stopped. just stop!

[-] 1 points by foxla (39) from Queens, NY 2 years ago

Corporate Economies are robbing everyday folks!

[-] 1 points by jpbarbieux (137) from Palmetto Bay, FL 2 years ago

protest the grievances against walmart.

[-] 1 points by RonnieB (1) 2 years ago

Bottom line, no one is forcing anybody to work at Wal-Mart, or shop at Wal-Mart. If Wal-Mart treats it employees so bad, then don't work there!

Wal-Mart is the largest because the people make a free choice to shop there. Remember when Sears was the largest, they are nothing now. Things cycle.

Better yet, let’s just shut down Wal-Mart and 1.5 million employees become unemployed. Are all the OWS crowd going to take care of them? I think not, they only believe in someone else bearing the burden of socialism, not them, They only to be the recipients, not the contributions.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

In some areas Walmart most defiantly has forced people to shop there, by forcing all competition out of the area.

Then they raise their prices and lower their quality.

[-] 1 points by stryker902 (1) 2 years ago

you cant change them by standing in front of their store. they are playing by the rules. it is perfectly legal to give money to congress. want to change things. vote in people who will create laws that will make it illegal for a corporation to do just that.

[-] 1 points by dingy58 (172) 2 years ago

jsuit@cityofdelcity.org email Del City, OK police a crime tip....police brutality is a crime...the protesters were leaving Walmart and were at the registers area and then were tackled and jailed. WE WILL NOT STOP.

[-] 1 points by LeoYo (5878) 2 years ago

I hope people will do more than just Occupy Wal-Mart. I hope people will discuss studying the Mondragon model and discuss creating an American version of Mondragon that would include an alternative to Wal-Mart.

Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness.

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by markcoby98 (3) 2 years ago

Walmart sucks! Their a great example of corporate greed, and abuse of their employees.

[-] 1 points by markcoby98 (3) 2 years ago

Wal☆mart sucks!

[-] 1 points by stoicheion (1) 2 years ago

I notice that a lot of the people who have something to say about Walmart's policies and politics haven't ever worked there. If you want a valid view on its corruption then ask some one who works there. I did work there for two years, and I can say in the affirmative that practically everything said about it is true. All they (shareholders) care about is making more money; I was told that several times by management/corporate.

[-] 1 points by classynancy (-73) 2 years ago

I see a lot of stupid people here thinking that Walmart's $15 B of annual profit is way to big and they should take that and pay their employees' health insurances (and maybe buy them each a car). You need to get an education on how corporations are FORCED (through your valued regulation) to make financial reports. a few important points for you all to understand: FIRST, profit is not cash that's in the bank, it's a periodic statement of earnings based on sales and expenses recognized in that same period. Where this is important is because significant investments (like new stores and other long-term improvements) do not show up as an expense the minute you pay for them, they are spread-out over many many years, which means that typically only 1/7 to 1/30th of Walmart's investments are recognized on the income statement that reports it's "profit". SECOND: Walmart had $400 B + of sales last year, so $15B of profit is actually very very little % of it's overall sales (3.9% to be exact). Think about it this way, Walmart is a corporation that is publicly held. It is owned by Billions of people who daily decide whether to invest their money in Walmart or a savings account. Some months, it probably looks better for them to move the company to the savings account. THIRD: Just because Walmart is so big, their tiny profit seems so big, but it really isn't. It's naive of people to not educate themselves before getting up in arms over what is really tiny profit. FOURTH: Let's look at your silly proposals to pay health insurance for all of Walmart's employees. The company employs 2.1 Million people (or approx 2.1 M more jobs than the occupy protesters are occupying themselves). The average cost of health insurance is about $5,000 per year (just for the individual, we're not even talking about their families). This expense would then reduce Walmart's profit by $10.5 B. This one gesture alone would leave the company with a profit of close to 1% of sales. What do you think would happen then? You got it, people would not want to buy or hold the company's stock, which would result in the company eventually dieing since it's ability to secure cash for improving stores will be eliminated. Oh yeah, then those 2.1 M people will be out of a job altogether. I'm beginning to wonder if the OWS people care if anyone has a job....

Unfortunately for many of you OWS air heads, the minor complexities of the way our financial systems work is too great for you to mentally overcome. Hopefully this simple explanation might help you understand better.... but I doubt it.....
[-] 1 points by YoungPhilosopher89 (19) 2 years ago

Hi im darren check out my blog http://youngphilosopher89.wordpress.com its left wing reflecting my anarcho-syndicalist views

[-] 1 points by Jonahl (11) 2 years ago

I am so glad there's a wal mart in Asheville! OCCUPY THEM ALL!

[-] 1 points by peterpeace (2) from Concrete, WA 2 years ago

did you know that all corporations have charters granted by the state they are chartered in and can be revoked by that state,think of the possibility!

[-] 1 points by xzy (2) from 伍德斯托克, NY 2 years ago

No waiting for black friday deal! Nov.25-Nov.30, 65% off storewide!only 7days you can get the big sale!No waiting for the crazy deal!For Christmas gifts and winter collection are your best choice! More surprise in www.dvdsetau.com can't miss the chance!Buy it now!!

[-] 1 points by Darkwolfs (1) from Louisville, KY 2 years ago

The purpose of Corporations, like Walmart, is to make a few people rich at the expense of the middle class. If the size of such corporations were limited, then smaller mom-and-pop grocery stores would take their place. We would then see the growth of the middle class.

[-] 1 points by DonQuixot (231) 2 years ago

The protesters in Tahir Square in Cairo see this very distant, but they are actually protesting also against WalMart, who controls US politics toghether with a few big ones, thus controlling the CIA and Pentagon who control the Military Junta en Egypt. Egyptions could also name their movement Occupy Wall Street. The people in Wall Street are conscious of this, the rest of us much less. But it is actually a confrontation of the middle and low class OF THE WHOLE PLANET against the us 1 %. It is only a matter of time until the 1 % finally understands before things turn ugly for them. I do not think they will fight to the end like Hitler or Gadaffi.

[-] 1 points by TexasThunder (68) 2 years ago

I find our elected officials incompetent to govern. They need some incentive that will mean something to them instead of putting funds at risk that will cause harm to those persons and institutions who can least afford such loss. I suggest that these officials’ pay and/or benefits be cut if and/or when they fail to do their job. As it is, party “a” threatens to harm parties “”d” through “z” if parties “b” and “c” can’t come to an agreement. It makes no sense whatsoever to threaten Congress with cuts that will not have any impact on them directly. Our Constitution establishes the type of government we are to have. We do not need to establish any “sub” groups within these institutions. They are all responsible collectively to govern and if/when they fail to do so they are all liable collectively. The “carrot and stick” method only works when the carrot or stick is guaranteed to the same one. These officials have received their carrot upon being elected as they shall receive full pay and full benefits for the rest of their life even if they only serve one term. I say put all options “on the table” including their lifetime pay and benefits. I’m of the position that such a “stick” would cause these officials to get their head out of the clouds and their feet on the ground.

[-] 1 points by nyhc4405 (1) 2 years ago

Walmart CEO Michael Duke's $35 million salary, when converted to an hourly wage, works out to $16,826.92. By comparison, a Walmart employee makes an average of $8.50 per hour. ABC NEWS Business Unit July 2, 2010 I'm sure the health coverage doesn't quite match either. It's disgusting that we have all let these corporate giants become what they are. Lesson learned. So now is the time for change.

[-] 1 points by LisaB303 (1) from White Swan, WA 2 years ago

Why are they not occupying at the height of the Black Friday madness that starts Thanksgiving night? I live near this Walmart and it is mostly poor people from a diverse ethnic background that shop there. They shop there to make ends meet. That said, I think it's a great statement and I may just drop by...

[-] 1 points by justcause (44) 2 years ago

i cannot wait until they call the police and them you to get off their property

[-] 1 points by po1 (1) 2 years ago

American made: jeans $30, t-shirts $8.50, socks $3.50, boxer shorts $8.50, leather shoes $100. Sounds high, but that is what clothes cost if the person making them is making a decent wage. A lot of people cannot afford to pay for clothes made in the USA, but a lot of us can. The people who work at Wal-mart can't for sure. Our government is corrupt but we have a chance to vote every time we spend a dollar. Every time you swipe a credit card your giving money to the issuing bank and to the credit card company that is figured into the cost of the goods you are purchasing. We need to support the Occupy movement and change the things that need to be changed, but we must also face the fact that the more we spend on foreign made goods the more jobs will stay out of the country, The government can't force us to buy American made goods, we have to make that choice ourselves. And by making that choice we may have to face the fact that we can't buy as much stuff as were used to, but maybe we don't need as much stuff as we think we do. Debt is voluntary slavery, so try not to volunteer.

[-] 1 points by NYGUARD (-6) 2 years ago

This Occupy movement is nailing it. They are targeting so many social, political, and environment issues and shinning the light of truth on them for all to see. Everyday the evil deeds of the 1% are exposed to the 99%. Don't ever quit. The future of this country rests in your hands. Also a big thank you to Michael Moore. He was there before the first tent was pitched and is in my opinion the heart of this movement.

[-] 1 points by wewontgetfooledagain (23) 2 years ago

I was wondering what kind of employee discounts Target workers get and ran across these job reviews:

http://www.jobbite.com/reviews/target

http://www.jobbite.com/reviews/wal-mart

And wow they get just a 10% discount on goods made in China at slave labor wages? Some benefit. Many "sale" prices are a better discount than that. Target is similar to Walmart and imports goods made in China because US extreme free trade laws allow it. Corporate lobbying keeps the laws that allow/cause this in place. End the trade deficit and bring jobs back to America!

https://www.uschina.org/statistics/tradetable.html

[-] 1 points by Collector (1) from Weldon, SK 2 years ago

Don't buy anything from China. The message needs to get out to everyone. I saw an investment banker call China the "Factory of the World" How many factories have the 1% moved offshore from the US and Canada? Would showing a clear correlation between the rising debt, high unemployment bring more people onside?

[-] 1 points by corbs92 (3) from Winnipeg, MB 2 years ago

You know. I think the people making $9000/hour forgot that the guy making $8/hour can afford this thing called the internet. The guy making $8/hour has access to all the same knowledge as the rich guy. WE AS PEOPLE ARE REALIZING WE ARE ROBBED.

[-] 1 points by EndTheFed214 (113) 2 years ago

they control way to much of the market.

[-] 1 points by PeaceAnneJustice (1) 2 years ago

I wish that there was a 'share' button for this link. I want to share it on facebook. Great idea to occupy Wal Mart. Our family at the start were against the big corps but they suck you in with their monopolistic pricing. But we have boycotted Wal Mart for almost a year now. They 'push' chemical filled and GMO foods and I found myself giving the one finger salute to all of the video cams that they have watching everyone. Has anyone seen the 'people of wal-mart videos on youtube where they basically mock people who shop there. Where did they get the video from i wonder. Are the elite people so boring as to have to watch and mock shoppers? Probably.

[-] 1 points by snid (1) 2 years ago

A new place to Occupy. Crystal Bridges Museum

On November 8, 2011 The American art world's biggest event in decades is happening this week — but it's not where you'd expect it to be.

Bentonville, Ark., is home to Wal-Mart headquarters and, starting Nov. 11, it will also be home to the Crystal Bridges Museum of American Art and what some critics are calling one of the world's best collections of American art.

Crystal Bridges is the brainchild of Wal-Mart heiress Alice Walton. While it's not as vast as New York's Metropolitan Museum of Art or the National Gallery in Washington, D.C., the museum is set to showcase an impressive collection of American art, including well-known pieces by Alexander Calder and Devorah Sperber. ***blah blah blah blah to make a long story short

According to Bacigalupi, nobody at Wal-Mart is involved with Crystal Bridge's daily operations — Alice Walton invested her own money into building the museum. Of course, her fortune is built on Wal-Mart stock. "Even if it's not called [the] Wal-Mart Museum, it is Wal-Mart's money," says Lorraine Millot, a writer for the French newspaper Liberation who visited the museum for the media preview.

For the entire story from NPR news follow this link. http://www.npr.org/2011/11/08/142019716/wal-mart-heiress-brings-art-museum-to-the-ozarks

[-] 1 points by mikedenis (49) 2 years ago

Banish Wal-Mart

[-] 1 points by Conundrums (2) from Maple Valley, WA 2 years ago

The fixation on cheap and cost cutting is foundational and systemic. Corporations are merely the most efficient players of this game.The public of course wants the best product at the best price~the cheapest price hence walmart grows massively by being uber effective at this.This conundrum of prices and wages can't be solved at the level at which it is created which is the level of incentives structured into the very foundation of our debt/ interest based monetary system which makes money and making mioney much more important than the real wealth and health of the planet.This economic system is based on a delusional accounting of what is real wealth and the incentives of this system keep most everyone fixated on the map of dollars and 'sense' and not the territory of what is really important and valuable.We need to start a global conversation about What is Real Wealth.Peace

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[-] 1 points by Conundrums (2) from Maple Valley, WA 2 years ago

The fixation on cheap and cost cutting is foundational and systemic. Corporations are merely the most efficient players of this game.The public of course wants the best product at the best price~the cheapest price hence walmart grows massively by being uber effective at this.This conundrum of prices and wages can't be solved at the level at which it is created which is the level of incentives structured into the very foundation of our debt/ interest based monetary system which makes money and making mioney much more important than the real wealth and health of the planet.This economic system is based on a delusional accounting of what is real wealth and the incentives of this system keep most everyone fixated on the map of dollars and 'sense' and not the territory of what is really important and valuable.We need to start a global conversation about What is Real Wealth.Peace

[-] 1 points by guero1nd (11) 2 years ago

Is it Walmart that is Evil, or is it us that want low prices? A small business owner can not sustainably insure its employees, especially now. This is not because they are greedy; it's because the cost of health care is ridiculous.

I'm not convinced that corporations, like Walmart, are so bad. If people do not want to work there, they should find another job or develop themselves to do so while working there. If people do not want to support Walmart, how come so many shop there; mainly the 99%? We shop there because they provide a good price. I think Walmart has become the scapegoat of a larger issue.....nonetheless; I do agree that campaign contributions need to be eliminated.

[-] 1 points by canibus111 (3) 2 years ago

Trust me..I know a manager at a certain Walmart and his guards all have tasers and are more than willing to use them.. have fun in jail lol

[-] 1 points by mikedenis (49) 2 years ago

Boycot Wal-Mart

[-] 1 points by elmerpkatz (1) 2 years ago

Let's see. If we spread out that 4.7 million to WalMart's 2 million employees they'd each get $2.35 a year! Great idea! That'll make them rich!

[-] 1 points by SeaChange (134) 2 years ago

I don't think that the point was "that is a lot of money for their employees," its that that is a lot of money to spend on a handful of politicians.

But the fact is in our current system, if you can afford it, a campaign contribution is the best possible investment you can make. It wildly outperforms any other kind of financial instrument.

[-] 1 points by VERUM (108) 2 years ago

It was corporations like Wal-Mart that lead to this unbalanced free-trade charade we see today that has sucked our entire manufacturing sector out of this country and deposited it into the likes of China. Wal-Mart's financial leverage on Washington applied through the lobbyist, played a major role the oppression of the American Middle Class.

OWS is right on target... (No retailer pun intended) ... by addressing this travesty. I'm appalled at the far right's continued argument that Government should not be involved with Business. However, they continue to support corporate lobbyist... so I guess they think it is OK for Business to be involved in Government!

[-] 1 points by ishikabe (9) 2 years ago

This should only make China angry.

Wal-Mart lost a Class Action lawsuit for the State of South Carolina a year ago for mistreating their workers. Asking them to work off the clock, stealing overtime, etc.

[-] 1 points by Violetarojo (119) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

I boycotted Wallyworld for years long before anyone else even noticed that they needed to be boycotted. Yes! I agree with all of the above. On the other hand they allow people to reside in the parking lots of many of their stores. To use the restrooms at all hours etc. I know because I am one of the persons that literally lived in the parking lot at the Eastlake Walmart in Otay Mesa, California. I was overnight parking at Home Depot but I found a back pack that had been tossed into the bushes and reported it to the police. The police gave a description of my truck and trailer over the radio and because of the possibility of foul play in regards to whom the backpack belonged to the police asked me to leave Home Depot and go to Walmart. I did go that very night, the management as well as all the employees and security at Walmart were very kind and helpful to me while I stayed there. I was there for close to two weeks, after this I maintained my convictions towards Walmart but I did lift my boycott. I felt that not to do so would be acting out of blatant hypocrisy. I still do not shop at Walmart but I have stayed at several Walmart’s while traveling without any problem. Many homeless people and families have been staying at Walmart for years now when they need to. I feel that this is commendable on behalf of Walmart and at the same time I truthfully agree with everything that was posted about Walmart policy, this is difficult for me.

[-] 1 points by wewontgetfooledagain (23) 2 years ago

Yes Walmart is basically THE reason for our huge trade deficit. They (Walmart etc. and politicians) sent all of our jobs overseas, import everything made in China etc. in slave labor camps yet still sell products at fairly high prices (vs. labor costs) to make billions, and put many smaller stores and business owners out of business (they are now working for low wages at Walmart etc.), so they have a retail monopoly. This is TERRIBLE and a huge reason why our economy and jobs are in shambles. Google trade deficit, walmart, etc.

When will the USA restrict imports, end the trade deficit, bring jobs back to the USA, and outlaw lobbying????? Bush had 8 years to fix this and did nothing. John Edwards is the only one who talked about bringing American jobs back. What we need is another Boston Tea Party.

Which is better, Americans simply stocking shelves with goods made overseas or Americans working in American factories to make those products? Have everything made overseas and sooner or later too many Americans can't even afford those less expensive products.

[-] 1 points by freeusa (14) 2 years ago

I love Wal-Mart! Wal-Mart provides jobs to millions of low skill worker a chance to make a living instead of getting a public assistance. Does anyone remember the story of Wal-Mart baby? If OWS is so up to against the big corporations, who start as a small company and gradually grew to giant company then you should go occupied McDonald, KFC, Microsoft, and so on. OWS go home and get a real job with paid and ask yourself who pay you?

[-] 1 points by UNCMike (1) from Newark, DE 2 years ago

How many mom and pop stores offer health care to part time employees? Why not protest mom and pops?

[-] 1 points by americanboy (48) 2 years ago

How many $ has Walmart saved Americans over the past four decades?

[-] 1 points by JIMINRDU (2) 2 years ago

Get 100 people to stand in each checkout lane and buy the cheapest item (say a pack of Ramen or some sort of loose produce). Then exit store, re-enter and repeat during store hours, then finally get a refund at the customer service desk. Spend as much time at the checkout as possible, by paying with a check or pennies for instance. The long lines may cause a dip in sales of other items and cause customers to shop at another store. All of this being completely within the rights as a "consumer"

[-] 1 points by americanboy (48) 2 years ago

Get Your cameras ready.. peopleofwalmart.com

[-] 1 points by JIMINRDU (2) 2 years ago

Get 100 people to stand in each checkout lane and buy the cheapest item (say a pack of Ramen or some sort of loose produce). Then exit store, re-enter and repeat during store hours, then finally get a refund at the customer service desk. Spend as much time at the checkout as possible, by paying with a check or pennies for instance. The long lines may cause a dip in sales of other items and cause customers to shop at another store. All of this being completely within the rights as a "consumer"

[-] 1 points by Fiction (14) 2 years ago

An Idea that i have set in Motion, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gryco23SQlU Can You Commit to it? Spread it if you can, My family agreed.

[-] 1 points by BreadLandPeace (359) 2 years ago

Keep up the great work!

[-] 1 points by Misenka141957 (61) 2 years ago

Pls organize one week minimum of Dont Buy At Walmart and repeat monthly until Walmart goes bust. Time to end this monster!

[-] 1 points by axi2011 (3) 2 years ago

u just stole my comment. who r u to censor me? proves u r not the 99%.

[-] 1 points by Jimmy44 (-57) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Bwahahaha good one. Occupy WallMart. Cliche' much? You think these poor underpaid workers get trodden on enough already, but noooooo, now OWS is there to finish off the job and make sure they lose their jobs by blocking WallMart customers and staff alike. Brilliant as usual OWS. I'm sure you can alienate every last member of the 99% if you keep going the way you are going.

[-] 1 points by xAnonymousx (32) 2 years ago

Thanks for the input jimmy44, we will take those deep and thoughtful comments in to consideration. After all we should be striving to keep the employers that are responsible for creating a slave working class afloat, because NO FULL Time Employment, No Living Wage, No Health Benefits,90% Chinese Import Stocked Shelves, creating 80,000 employees that can't pay rent, or go to the doctor, forced to feel as if their lives are on the edge of destruction at all times.....is a good thing Damn Jimmy that describes a perfect world ..... I'm gonna get right on that !.......... I think since it was your idea, we should name it after you "The Jimmy".................congrats brother on your insightful input.....

P.S. we all could use a little jimmy in our lives, how lucky are we to have our very own.......................Anonymous

[-] 1 points by Jimmy44 (-57) from New York, NY 2 years ago

You're welcome.

[-] 1 points by axi2011 (3) 2 years ago

u just stole my comment. who r u to censor me? proves u r not the 99%.

[-] 1 points by axi2011 (3) 2 years ago

u just stole my comment. who r u to censor me? proves u r not the 99%.

[-] 1 points by xAnonymousx (32) 2 years ago

If you don't think there is a reason to be in this fight, then think about this,,,,,this is just 1 Family the Rothschild Family, and a current list of the Banks they own world wide look for additions...> Bank For International Settlements (BIS) Afghanistan: Bank of Afghanistan Albania: Bank of Albania Algeria: Bank of Algeria Argentina: Central Bank of Argentina Armenia: Central Bank of Armenia Aruba: Central Bank of Aruba Australia: Reserve Bank of Australia Austria: Austrian National Bank Azerbaijan: Central Bank of Azerbaijan Republic Bahamas: Central Bank of The Bahamas Bahrain: Central Bank of Bahrain Bangladesh: Bangladesh Bank Barbados: Central Bank of Barbados Belarus: National Bank of the Republic of Belarus Belgium: National Bank of Belgium Belize: Central Bank of Belize Benin: Central Bank of West African States (BCEAO) Bermuda: Bermuda Monetary Authority Bhutan: Royal Monetary Authority of Bhutan Bolivia: Central Bank of Bolivia Bosnia: Central Bank of Bosnia and Herzegovina Botswana: Bank of Botswana Brazil: Central Bank of Brazil Bulgaria: Bulgarian National Bank Burkina Faso: Central Bank of West African States (BCEAO) Burundi: Bank of the Republic of Burundi Cambodia: National Bank of Cambodia Cameroon: Bank of Central African States Canada: Bank of Canada – Banque du Canada Cayman Islands: Cayman Islands Monetary Authority Central African Republic: Bank of Central African States Chad: Bank of Central African States Chile: Central Bank of Chile China: The People’s Bank of China Colombia: Bank of the Republic Comoros: Central Bank of Comoros Congo: Bank of Central African States Costa Rica: Central Bank of Costa Rica Côte d’Ivoire: Central Bank of West African States (BCEAO) Croatia: Croatian National Bank

[-] 1 points by xAnonymousx (32) 2 years ago

Cuba: Central Bank of Cuba Cyprus: Central Bank of Cyprus Czech Republic: Czech National Bank Denmark: National Bank of Denmark Dominican Republic: Central Bank of the Dominican Republic East Caribbean area: Eastern Caribbean Central Bank Ecuador: Central Bank of Ecuador Egypt: Central Bank of Egypt El Salvador: Central Reserve Bank of El Salvador Equatorial Guinea: Bank of Central African States Estonia: Bank of Estonia Ethiopia: National Bank of Ethiopia European Union: European Central Bank Fiji: Reserve Bank of Fiji Finland: Bank of Finland France: Bank of France Gabon: Bank of Central African States The Gambia: Central Bank of The Gambia Georgia: National Bank of Georgia Germany: Deutsche Bundesbank Ghana: Bank of Ghana Greece: Bank of Greece Guatemala: Bank of Guatemala Guinea Bissau: Central Bank of West African States (BCEAO) Guyana: Bank of Guyana Haiti: Central Bank of Haiti Honduras: Central Bank of Honduras Hong Kong: Hong Kong Monetary Authority Hungary: Magyar Nemzeti Bank Iceland: Central Bank of Iceland India: Reserve Bank of India Indonesia: Bank Indonesia Iran: The Central Bank of the Islamic Republic of Iran Iraq: Central Bank of Iraq Ireland: Central Bank and Financial Services Authority of Ireland Israel: Bank of Israel Italy: Bank of Italy Jamaica: Bank of Jamaica Japan: Bank of Japan Jordan: Central Bank of Jordan Kazakhstan: National Bank of Kazakhstan Kenya: Central Bank of Kenya Korea: Bank of Korea Kuwait: Central Bank of Kuwait Kyrgyzstan: National Bank of the Kyrgyz Republic Latvia: Bank of Latvia Lebanon: Central Bank of Lebanon Lesotho: Central Bank of Lesotho Libya: Central Bank of Libya Lithuania: Bank of Lithuania Luxembourg: Central Bank of Luxembourg Macao: Monetary Authority of Macao Macedonia: National Bank of the Republic of Macedonia Madagascar: Central Bank of Madagascar Malawi: Reserve Bank of Malawi Malaysia: Central Bank of Malaysia Mali: Central Bank of West African States (BCEAO) Malta: Central Bank of Malta Mauritius: Bank of Mauritius Mexico: Bank of Mexico Moldova: National Bank of Moldova Mongolia: Bank of Mongolia Montenegro: Central Bank of Montenegro Morocco: Bank of Morocco Mozambique: Bank of Mozambique Namibia: Bank of Namibia Nepal: Central Bank of Nepal Netherlands: Netherlands Bank Netherlands Antilles: Bank of the Netherlands Antilles New Zealand: Reserve Bank of New Zealand Nicaragua: Central Bank of Nicaragua Niger: Central Bank of West African States (BCEAO) Nigeria: Central Bank of Nigeria Norway: Central Bank of Norway Oman: Central Bank of Oman Pakistan: State Bank of Pakistan Papua New Guinea: Bank of Papua New Guinea Paraguay: Central Bank of Paraguay Peru: Central Reserve Bank of Peru Philippines: Bangko Sentral ng Pilipinas Poland: National Bank of Poland Portugal: Bank of Portugal Qatar: Qatar Central Bank Romania: National Bank of Romania Russia: Central Bank of Russia Rwanda: National Bank of Rwanda San Marino: Central Bank of the Republic of San Marino Samoa: Central Bank of Samoa Saudi Arabia: Saudi Arabian Monetary Agency Senegal: Central Bank of West African States (BCEAO) Serbia: National Bank of Serbia Seychelles: Central Bank of Seychelles Sierra Leone: Bank of Sierra Leone Singapore: Monetary Authority of Singapore Slovakia: National Bank of Slovakia Slovenia: Bank of Slovenia Solomon Islands: Central Bank of Solomon Islands South Africa: South African Reserve Bank Spain: Bank of Spain Sri Lanka: Central Bank of Sri Lanka Sudan: Bank of Sudan Surinam: Central Bank of Suriname Swaziland: The Central Bank of Swaziland Sweden: Sveriges Riksbank Switzerland: Swiss National Bank Tajikistan: National Bank of Tajikistan Tanzania: Bank of Tanzania Thailand: Bank of Thailand Togo: Central Bank of West African States (BCEAO) Tonga: National Reserve Bank of Tonga Trinidad and Tobago: Central Bank of Trinidad and Tobago Tunisia: Central Bank of Tunisia Turkey: Central Bank of the Republic of Turkey Uganda: Bank of Uganda Ukraine: National Bank of Ukraine United Arab Emirates: Central Bank of United Arab Emirates United Kingdom: Bank of England United States: The Dirty Nasty Stinky Fed, Federal Reserve Bank of New York Uruguay: Central Bank of Uruguay Vanuatu: Reserve Bank of Vanuatu Venezuela: Central Bank of Venezuela Vietnam: The State Bank of Vietnam Yemen: Central Bank of Yemen Zambia: Bank of Zambia Zimbabwe: Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe

[-] 1 points by xAnonymousx (32) 2 years ago

Might I just ask you Potential OWS members 1 question

                      How many Banks does your family own ?

                                                                Anonymous
[-] 1 points by BOA (10) 2 years ago

Walmart advertises criminals out in front of their stores, posing for charity, so that they can break in your house later and steal. Don't expect any help from the cops or prosecutor - they're paid off.

[-] 1 points by BOA (10) 2 years ago

Walmart advertises criminals out in front of their stores, posing for charity, so that they can break in your house later and steal.

[-] 1 points by adamrains (1) 2 years ago

Has anybody yet noted that this is a great idea simply because every city has a Walmart?

Up until now, most #occupations have occurred in major urban hubs. Depending on the focus of this operation, it could be a great way to branch out.

[-] 1 points by Renee1m (1) 2 years ago

Good on you Washingtonians. Thank you for taking it right to the store.

[-] 1 points by gorilla (3) 2 years ago

Perfect 99 target and strategy!

[-] 1 points by Wallst4eva (-1) 2 years ago

Ows= jealous english lit flunky

[-] 1 points by Wallst4eva (-1) 2 years ago

How many of the 99% drew mortgages they couldnt afford via no doc loan apps?

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

Why did the lending institutions approve those loans and hand out the money?

[-] 1 points by RobertUeberfeldt (44) from Kaikohe, Northland 2 years ago

From occupy NZ to occupy wall st. Classic NZ protest footage and damming indictment of our Prime Minister an ex US Federal reserve agent who helped the whole world to become a poorer place http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AjgWyxJAGQ

[-] 1 points by MaryS (678) 2 years ago

I personally don't shop at Walmart but why go to the store and pester shoppers who are just trying to save some $, and workers who are just trying to survive? They're not your target are they? Why not go to Walmart headquarters. Great way to alienate the very people you are supposed to be speaking up for. And you can't tell me the shoppers won't be insulted.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

Interrupting business in their stores is a great way to get attention. How far would they get at the HQ? You have to hit them where it hurts them the most.... impeding the making of money.

[-] 1 points by patg911 (2) 2 years ago

Workers should be paid fair market value. End of discussion. If you've ever studied economics or finance you'd understand. Educate yourselves, people.

[-] 1 points by FreedomIn2012 (-36) from Hempstead, NY 2 years ago

Why stop at WalMarts? Shut down Target, Kohl's, Macy's, Sears, Home Depot, Lowe's, Victoria Secret (please not them), Bloomingdale's, The Gap, Old Navy, McDonalds, Burger King, Wendy's, Taco Bell, Kentucky Fried Chicken, Arby's, Brookstone, CVS, Walgreen's, Rite Aid, Shop Rite, Osco's, Ace Hardware, and all the other slug leeches on our society. We don't nwed them any more because we are the 99%! Screw those 1%ers!!

[-] 1 points by squareone (1) 2 years ago

It might be easy to target huge corporations, especially one as big as Wal Mart, but I don't quite understand occupying it. I love the direction OWS is heading with all this talk about accountability, but what about holding accountable those who support Wal Mart by shopping there. I think more emphasis needs to be placed on the 99%'s responsibility to protest corporations with unethical corporate governance. It seems like there is a lot of complaining about huge corporations but the only way they get so much power is because people, mostly from the 99%, are giving it to them.

[-] 1 points by PatrynXX (2) from Cedar Falls, IA 2 years ago

I'd much prefer someone get together and occupy the Frozen Food distribution center in Cedar Falls, IA. Yeah my brothers a bit right wing but that doesn't mean I can't have a heart for him. Target is more anti union than walmart. They lured him away from a well paying job. Trained him for a month, had the trainees do the public tour of the buildings and promptly had most of them fired for no reason after that. Haven't been anywhere near a Target except once or twice in 2-3 years.

[-] 1 points by cJessgo (729) from Port Jervis, PA 2 years ago

Wonderful

[-] 1 points by USCitizenVoter (720) 2 years ago

Sorry Kids "Usually it's the Grinch that steals Christmas. This year it's the government" Boycott Walmart Forever

[-] 1 points by gardengal (1) 2 years ago

I am reading here of starting companies (or taking them over) and running them democratically. How many here have tried starting a business? The government; federal, state and local have so many restrictions, licensing, taxes that you are hard pressed to make a buck even if you have a market for your product. The gov (all mentioned above) ran my local nursery in the ground with all the regulations, taxes and restrictions. It is a nightmare to own a business, and if you do end up making it through the government maze you ought to be able to make as much as you are willing to work for. I tried paying my employees a living wage (while I didn't take a cent for myself) and the taxes alone ate up every bit of profit I had and left nothing to grow my business, buy equipment, etc. All this talk is wishful thinking. Get the government out of the way and out of our pockets.

[-] 1 points by Justice4all (133) 2 years ago

They really should change the Wal Mart cheer. Give me an O, give me a V, Give me an E, Give me an R, Give me a W, Give me an O, Give me an R, Give me a K, Give me an E, Give me a D. Give me a squiggly. Give me a U, Give me an N, Give me a D, Give me an E, Give me an R, Give me a P, Give me an A, Give me an I, Give me a D--Whats that spell????

Overworked & Underpaid YEA!!!!!!!

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[-] 1 points by Cjoy77 (4) 2 years ago

I love this movement. I used to work for walmart in Oklahoma city. They treated us like crapp. Didn't pay well. Many people I worked with were on food stamps because walmart just did not pay them enough to live on. It is just crazy how they treat there slaves. I will not be shopping there at all this Xmas season due to be out of work for 2 years. This is the longest I have ever been without a job. It sucks can't pay bills.

[-] 0 points by creswell (49) 2 years ago

Hi Cjoy77, It was good that you left Wal Mart since they "treated [you] like crap"....and [they] "didn't pay well". First of all, WM doesn't have slaves, so your are lying there, you were free to leave and you did, but now you don't have a job, so that's better, parasite. Since you detail how "many [workers] were on food stamps", because of the low pay, how about because of their high taxes, i.e. property, sales etc. Maybe you should start your own business.

[-] 1 points by mannysmom (3) 2 years ago

Never give up, never surrender! Lets occupy the world! We the 99 need to take it back and we can't stop until it's done.

[-] 1 points by brooklynviking (8) 2 years ago

A report is also available from the National Labor Committee containing further documentation of working conditions at Wal-Mart’s suppliers in Bangladesh. This alleges use of child labour (a 13 year-old girl) and the death of a young woman after working non-stop for 38 hours despite being ill.59 A further report describes how 6-7 employees at a textile factory outside Dhakar lost their lives and many were injured when the management called in the police after the employees had gone on strike. They went on strike because they were ordered to work five hours unpaid overtime per day, seven days a week. The police beat the employees with batons and opened fire with handguns. One of the injured in the shooting was a 13 year-old girl.60

[-] 1 points by aahpat (1407) 2 years ago

I hope that you folks can make a real presence of the OWS for this action. Good luck!

A suggestion.

Print out a pile of voter registration forms and pass them out. Nothing will scare these owners of Wall Street and Congress more than if OWS is making a show of politically activating and empowering voters.

Voter Registration pdf http://www.secstate.wa.gov/elections/pdf/vrform.pdf

[-] 1 points by brooklynviking (8) 2 years ago

Wal-Mart is alleged to run its business operations in a manner that contradicts internationally recognised human rights and labour rights standards, both through its suppliers in a number of countries in Asia, Africa and Latin America, and in its own operations. There are numerous reports alleging that Wal-Mart consistently and systematically employs minors in contravention of international rules, that working conditions at many of its suppliers are dangerous or health-hazardous, that workers are pressured into working overtime without compensation, that the company systematically discriminates against women with regard to pay, that all attempts by the company’s employees to unionise are stopped, that employees are in some cases unreasonably punished and locked up, along with a number of other allegations which will be subject to further discussion below under section 4.

[-] 1 points by cmt (1195) from Tolland, CT 2 years ago

Here and in surrounding states, they violated the child labor laws repeatedly, and were caught repeatedly. I don't buy there.

[-] 1 points by rcarmstrong (115) from Cadyville, NY 2 years ago

Beautiful and inspiring stuff from Phil Rockstroh, poet, lyricist, and philosopher: "Remember this: Most likely, the corporate state has, to some degree, colonized your mind, as it is well on its way to destroying the ecosystem of the entire planet.

Conversely, let your soul occupy you. While there might be an ongoing effort to scour Liberty Park of liberty, they cannot do likewise to your heart without your consent. Turn the tables on them: Evict the corporate occupiers from the public realm within--as all the while, you challenge propaganda whenever it crosses your path…on the streets, at your workplace, at family gatherings, and on social media-- because a lie left unchallenged begins to be accepted as truth. And worse, invades, colonizes and exploits (and often kills) a portion of the soul of the world."

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/11/23

He ends his essay with a quote from Utah Phillips: The state can't give you freedom, and the state can't take it away. You're born with it, like your eyes, like your ears. Freedom is something you assume, then you wait for someone to try to take it away. The degree to which you resist is the degree to which you are free.”

[-] 1 points by freedomanddemocracy (72) 2 years ago

It's such a shame, and Sam Walton, is turning in his grave over how WalMart has departed from his beliefs in buying American and treating his employees fairly, paying them a decent wage and providing them with decent benefits! The present CEO's of WalMart care nothing about their employees, only they care about is profits,profits, and their millions they get in salary,benefits and stock options! They should walk in the shoes of the average worker one day, like the show " Undercover Boss", and they will see that these workers work long hours and receive sub-wages and now sub-benefits! They are truly the scum of the earth, and yes, march on WalMart, march on the headquarters in Arkansas, and demand that they restore benefits to all workers!

[-] 1 points by murderkingz (56) 2 years ago

"Power concedes to nothing w/out a DEMAND...it never has..and it never will":Frederick Douglas former slave...rise up my people...HUELGA!!!

[-] 1 points by Anacleto (6) 2 years ago

VETO para todos estos personajes que han participado de alguna manera en las decisiones que han llevado a Colombia (y todos los demás países) a la situación en la que se encuentra. No supieron aprovechar la oportunidad de hacer algo bueno por el país, sólo por sus bolsillos. No más de estos funestos personajes, necesitamos sangre nueva para que de verdad este país tenga lo que se merece. VETO

[-] 1 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

I hope people will demonstrate peacefully and let the grandma's and moms and dads get their Christmas shopping done.

[-] 1 points by mannysmom (3) 2 years ago

Problem with protesting on privately owned property...it is only allowed if the owner allow it! Walmart is private and generally located on private property.

[-] 1 points by Benzobug (2) 2 years ago

Anyone who knows anything about Sam Walton would say that he was a man that worked hard but also worked smartly! I for one believe in the American Free enterprise system. If you work hard, smartly and you are motivated to become successful, The USA is the best place on earth. I have seen many of you complain about student loans; but many of you went and got degrees in English, Philosophy and the like. These were decisions that you people made. These types of degrees are very easy to get but do not offer and potential employer much to work with. The fact that you made bad choices isn’t my fault. I work hard and pay lots of taxes. I’m not a 1%’er but most like in the top 30 Percent of American citizens. If you want something you have to work for it. Most importantly, you need to understand, Communism and Socialism are hard working people’s nightmare and slackers / bum’s dreams come true! In Communism and Socialism, there is no incentive and therefore people work only as hard as least productive person resulting in NOTHING getting done!

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

"The USA is the best place on earth."

That is one of the biggest myths on the planet. Socialism works VERY WELL in SEVERAL countries. Read up on them.

[-] 1 points by isupportoccupywallstreet (38) 2 years ago

Go, go, go!!!

[-] 1 points by mannysmom (3) 2 years ago

Problem with protesting on privately owned property...it is only allowed if the owner allow it! Walmart is private and generally located on private property.

[-] 1 points by Benzobug (2) 2 years ago

Anyone who knows anything about Sam Walton would say that he was a man that worked hard but also worked smartly! I for one believe in the American Free enterprise system. If you work hard, smartly and you are motivated to become successful, The USA is the best place on earth. I have seen many of you complain about student loans; but many of you went and got degrees in English, Philosophy and the like. These were decisions that you people made. These types of degrees are very easy to get but do not offer and potential employer much to work with. The fact that you made bad choices isn’t my fault. I work hard and pay lots of taxes. I’m not a 1%’er but most like in the top 30 Percent of American citizens. If you want something you have to work for it. Most importantly, you need to understand, Communism and Socialism are hard working people’s nightmare and slackers / bum’s dreams come true! In Communism and Socialism, there is no incentive and therefore people work only as hard as least productive person resulting in NOTHING getting done!

[-] 1 points by jcrocker (2) 2 years ago

Sweet , you should project the movie High cost of low prices on the wall.

[-] 1 points by murderkingz (56) 2 years ago

born to hunt...forced to work

[-] 1 points by Joseph031 (1) 2 years ago

Wal-Mart is making good money, yes. But they also have $43 billion in loans to repay, still. Sometimes you get in trouble if you focus on one thing, like income.

[-] 1 points by wearehumanpeople (2) from New York, NY 2 years ago

My original Christmas song "Synthetic Xmas" that is PERFECTLY in-line with this kind of protest. Support independent art. Thank you.

http://kinggod.bandcamp.com/

Keep it peaceful, make them laugh, make them think.

[-] 1 points by conservative4change (12) 2 years ago

Proof you are now run by New York Communities for Change and are a tool for the unions. I thought OWS actually had some new ideas.

[-] 1 points by JProffitt71 (222) from Colorado Springs, CO 2 years ago

So fuck progression, that was so last century.

[-] 1 points by ross777 (0) 2 years ago

i wrote an article on occupy. I wanted to get some feedback on it. I initially went into it with a pretty negative outlook on the protestors, but i kind of changed my mind half way through: http://greatcreditscore.org/economy/occupy-wallstreet/

Our economic problems are directly caused by banks selling their "bad mortgage debts", as good debt. The credit rating agencies that gave this bad debt, triple A ratings made a ton of cash, as did the banks. While we got left to pay the bill.

If this movement is about preventing financial companies from cuasing economic problems, then i totally support it. But i don't really like how negative energy seems to be directed at all wealthy people.

[-] 1 points by JamesS89118 (646) from Las Vegas, NV 2 years ago

When you can only shop at Wal-Mart, Wal-Mart becomes your only lobbyist.

[-] 1 points by LoveAll22 (26) 2 years ago

The problem is obvious, yet widely ignored. A corporation's only purpose is to make a pofit and increase those profits every year, year after year. So corporations are only doing what they are configured to do. But it is simple math to know that they can not increase profits forever. That is what is being ignored - sooner or later there are no more profits to take. The answer is to reconfigure so that coporations become a democratically organized entity that balances profit with a high standrard of living for all who work there. That is a model sustainable for eternity.

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

Love you too.

So you only recognize one way to increase profits, right?? Do you make any distinction regarding, same store sales, gross profit on sales, total gross profit including added sources of sales (additional stores), etc.

If you had your facts before you, I bet that you would find that WalMart is making the same profit that they did when Sam had one store - probably a lot less actually. Now think about what kind of profit you are talking about.

If I sell one of my beautiful handcrafted toe rings for $50.00 this year and expand next year to sell 2 for $100.00 can you relate to profit in this context. And yes, I may try to get my German nickel silver that you think if the real thing a little cheaper in China, but what if I maintain the same profit margin and reduce my price to 2 for $90.00.

Most of the posts on here are so off base that nothing is really obvious.

[-] 1 points by southernwoman (12) from Trussville, AL 2 years ago

I hate Walmart. Unfortunately, I have to still go there because I can get more food for less money and the money is really tight in our home right now. The walmart in my town is open all day tomorrow, so the workers get no break whatsoever.

[-] 2 points by IamMamaCas (21) from Norman, OK 2 years ago

Fatherlenin was a little over the top, but I mainly agree. I'm poor as hell (oh, and I mean poor), and I don't eat food from Wal-Mart. I hardly ever go there. I try and make it to our local 'Wal-mart' Homeland before they close.

Yes, they are more expensive. Half the store now days is on sale at any given time, though, and what's on sale makes it as cheap (or even cheaper!) than Wal-mart. Just buy what's on sale, you can even eat organic this way, without spending anymore. Don't think it limits you either... out of half the store there will be something you would like to eat. My husband picks his cereal that way. :) So really, it's like I spent $5 to not have to go to Wal-mart.

[-] 2 points by tryingheretoo (11) 2 years ago

Totally agreed. This person saying he hates them yet buys from them is simply hypocrite no matter what the excuse is. The price difference is not that great, not if you talk about food for that matter. Of course, if his agenda includes cheap electronics, than it's a hole other issue, but then the claim of hating becomes even more hypocrisy.

[-] 1 points by fatherlenin (1) 2 years ago

Really? You hate them but still go there? Money is tight, but Walmart is providing a place for you to buy food, yet you hate them? They are employing people so they can put food on THEIR table and you hate them?

Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Put your money where your mouth is. Stand by your beliefs and DON'T GO TO WALMART, otherwise you're just a hypocrite.

[-] 1 points by livinincalifornia (0) 2 years ago

What is the best way to go about this?

[-] 1 points by jjordanw (14) 2 years ago

great, take em on

[-] 0 points by saveourfreedom (10) from Fairbanks, AK 2 years ago

walmart provides a lower quality product for INSANELY CHEAP. if you don't want to buy it then don't. but the government should have no say in that. the truth of the matter is this: a free market economy is the best solution. let the market decide for itself. if a product is to low of quality it won't be bought. the company will ether have to change what it sells or go out of business, problem solved. and that's how it works with EVERYTHING. problems arise when government starts thinking it can do it better and ends up just messing it all up. the market economy will fix itself if you let it all you have to do is make the government let it do that. so protest farm subsidies because that's hurting about everything. protest price controls cause it makes everyone's life's more miserable. and stop protesting things like low paying jobs cause guess what some people(a lot actually) want those jobs and it helps get u stuff cheaper. what there is a lot going wrong in our country but less government and true freedom will solve it easy

[-] 0 points by MVSN (768) from Stockton, CA 2 years ago

What is an "obscene profit"?

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[-] 0 points by classynancy (-73) 2 years ago

Great job with the boycott, WMT and the rest of the retail stores knocked it out of the park this year. Perhaps you should do the OPPOSITE of what you would like other people to do in the future....

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/11/26/black-friday-sales-up-7-percent-over-2010/

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[-] 0 points by rebel9999 (24) 2 years ago

Wall Mart has put more small businesses out of business than any other organization. Yet their merchandise is made up of a lot of junk. We should change their name to Junk Mart. Look at their clothes line. It is so bland. Look at their color of their meats. They are dyed red to hide spoilage. Open their cans of food. You will many times see staleness of quality. Many times they get their food from distributers who have a lot of food that they must sell fast to avert quality spoilage so they call Wally's Junk Mart to unload their lower quality food. It's about time we turn our back on all of those that are destroying America in one way or another.

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[-] 0 points by Sharpie933 (20) 2 years ago

The best way to get a mass convergence of Occupiers into Wal-Mart? Tell them there's a sale on Tevas and iPhone chargers. BUH-DUM-BUMP-CHING!!!

Thank you! I'll be here all night. Be sure to tip your waiter.

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

THIS should serve as an alert to all of you who are very involved in this WalMart protest, as important as you think it might be:

Our most trusted neighbor country has been seeking a pipeline route to provide oil to refineries in the United States What was our answer??

  1. No, it might harm Nebraska
  2. No, it might harm Utah
  3. No, lets' discuss it for two years (Obama)

TODAY, that problem was solved.

  1. China will take it.

And somehow in our way of reasoning - WalMart is our biggest problem. Fiddle all you want - Rome is burning and I really don't think that anyone on these posts fully understands or cares beyond their own agendas.

Protest WalMart and their imported trinkets all you want. China just walked right past you and took one of the most valuable assets that was ever offered to the USA.

[-] 1 points by ithink (761) from York, PA 2 years ago

ps. Kill walmart

[-] 1 points by ithink (761) from York, PA 2 years ago

I can't imagine that Canada is that upset or ever surprised. The oil from Canada has to be super refined. Which means that the oil companies here would not make much money on it. Since we all know corporations run this country, its all about the bottom line. They did not think it was worthwhile to engage in a huge environmental battle for such a small profit. Anyway that is what I heard, I could be wrong.

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

Canada may not be upset. I AM.

I think, living in the oil patch, that this will take on a totally different prospective when oil reaches $200.00?bbl and our best source is being shipped to China for processing.

And, just how much are you willing to pay for oil, when it has to be imported from CHINA back into the USA????

[-] 1 points by ithink (761) from York, PA 2 years ago

Yes, there are people who share this concern with you. But I think, and I am sorry if this is terrible of me, but I think a huge price hike would allow people to experiment with methods for dealing with the inevitable fact that oil is a finite resource. Three to five giant price hikes over a period of 10 years may be all we need to reset our lives.

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

I fully agree. Just look at the size of our cars since the 1970's. We can and must adjust. But I would rather see that adjustment come from within rather than be imposed by China or some other oil producer.

[-] 0 points by teaparty001 (-11) 2 years ago

they still sell cheap compared to everyone else

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[-] 0 points by ProgMan (0) 2 years ago

So, you Occupy loser plan to stop the average Joe worker from saving a buck to buy his kid a christmas gift. nice

[-] 0 points by ProgMan (0) 2 years ago

so you occupy losers will keep the average Joe from getting his kid an on-sale gift for christmas. Make a real statement by setting yourselves on fire in front of a Ruth Chris Steakhouse

[-] 0 points by randart (498) 2 years ago

Go to Walmart and grab a shopping cart, fill it to the brim, take it to the checkout line and walk out. Just leave the cart there in line blocking the registers. Hell, grab two or three carts and act like you are going to spend hundreds of dollars then simply leave the line and the store. Imagine the confusion and problems the management would have to go through to sort it all out.

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[-] 0 points by angelofmercy (225) 2 years ago

Another stupid Idea. Live in a small town. When the Wal-mart came in it provided much needed jobs. It also brought in more smaller stores as well to compete against them. Our local Wal-Mart also supports our local Salvation Army Thrift Store. It sends items such as left over holiday merchandise , outdated eggs , and breads to be sold at a very , very low price rather then tossing them in a trash bin. On top of that our local Wal-Mart began carrying products made in our state (MIO). Every Christmas our Wal-Mart host toys for tots , The Angel Tree , and Shop With a Cop. This idea to try to make this company and others out to be evil is rather stupid. You only end up hurting the people that are depending on their services , and generosity.

[-] 0 points by AuditElmerFudd (259) 2 years ago

How about their long history of giving employment to low-skilled workers when the alternatives are worse? No one is entitled to a job. Get real, folks. Harm Wal-Mart and you'll just be hurting the workers.

[-] 0 points by occupiedinCHI (23) 2 years ago

Fill up shopping carts with perishable goods and leave them all over the store. Help their employees get some hours and cut into their profits.

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[-] 0 points by Barkode (105) 2 years ago

I don't care how much $$ they have/make for as long as they don't buy/bribe the politicians. We need to make sure that the Walton family has as much political power/influence as Joe-the-plumber family

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[-] 0 points by FreedomIn2012 (-36) from Hempstead, NY 2 years ago

Shut them all down!! We don't need no WalMarts!!

[-] 0 points by patg911 (2) 2 years ago

Oh, the poor workers! Oh, the humanity! They have jobs and are paid WAY more than those in third-world countries. Why is it such a bad thing to provide work? At least Wal-Mart and its employees are doing something besides sitting on their tails complaining about nonsense. You people need to start contributing to this once great country. WTFU.

[-] 0 points by FreedomIn2012 (-36) from Hempstead, NY 2 years ago

Close all WalMarts! Today! Before Christmas please!

[-] 0 points by occupymybutt (1) 2 years ago

Bring back New Coke!

[-] 0 points by FreedomIn2012 (-36) from Hempstead, NY 2 years ago

They are leeches on our society. They don't deserve to be in our new communities. Shut them down now!!

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[-] 0 points by devilliers123 (18) 2 years ago

I recall the times not so long ago that One Person's Salary would feed and clothe a family, make a home and buy the House to keep it all in whilst running a car.

Where did it go wrong?

There is a Solution.

Stop Spending and make Frugality an Artform

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[-] 0 points by Bighead1883 (285) 2 years ago

You see that the only way to control the Walmarts and Woolworths of the world is to not shop there first off.After you stop shopping at those places then use your power of VOTE at the next election.The break up of the two party political stranglehold in Australia has seen a more moderate government in this term so far with the present one bringing in a Mining Tax on Big Corporation.Vote for your Independent Candidate,change is possible through the polls.I understand that protests are needed when the system is rotten(I marched against the rotten Vietnam War and the Apartheid in South Africa}but the strongest power the 99% have is their VOTE.Use it or you will lose it.

[-] 0 points by usoftheworldcom (6) 2 years ago

When you write that Wal-Mart is making an effort "to buy our legislative process" you misrepresent "our" legislative process since you are certainly talking about Congress. Congress doesn't use the money we send it for "us". Instead, since the Constitution says it has power to "regulate Commerce...among the several States", it is not obligated to use taxes exclusively for national purposes as do all other states in the world. It votes money where it sees fit and it has so much money from our taxes that corporations are drawn to it like flies to a huge pool of honey. You should ask why we have no legislative process in Washington working directly to support our national interest as do all other national legislatures. That is the main problem. Corporate influence is an important problem but it is secondary. Daniel McNeill usoftheworld.com

[-] 1 points by Frankaval (1) 2 years ago

Maybe the constitution needs some drastic changes. There is no reason that in this day and age we can't just let the legislatures propose the laws and then vote for passage in a referendum.

[-] 0 points by mandodod (144) 2 years ago

If you do not like Wal Mart, don't shop there. Or don't work there. If a person stocks the store, why should he/she make more than $8-10 per hour? Does not take skill. Does not take brains. Would be better to go to school or join the military.

[-] 1 points by wewontgetfooledagain (23) 2 years ago

Walmart sent higher paying manufacturing jobs overseas, therefore many people are forced to work for Walmart for those lower wages because there are no better manufacturing jobs.

[-] 1 points by mandodod (144) 2 years ago

That is because wages are way to high. Benifirs are way to high. With India and China....it had to happen.

[-] 1 points by wewontgetfooledagain (23) 2 years ago

Sorry, when someone is earning a comfortable living without having to work 2-3 jobs or go into debt way over their heads (ie having to resort to using credit cards) wages are (were) NOT too high. And USA companies did fine and made good fair profits BEFORE Walmart and the trade deficit took off. It was corporate greed that caused this mess. Benefits are not too high but health care and insurance is very expensive, which is another problem fueled by lobbying. In China etc. wages are too low and that's why many USA companies import. Good paying USA jobs were replaced with slave labor jobs.

Santa's Workshop http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQh2CZZK1YU

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

So, you're offering to work for $0.50 an hour?

I have some work for you. Pm me.

[-] 1 points by mandodod (144) 2 years ago

No. It is too late. Jobs will not come back to the US because wages are so low in Mexico and India and China. It is too late. They will not come back. Sorry.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

I'm talkin' to you.

$0.50 an hour. It's what you want.

Put up or shut up.

[-] 1 points by mandodod (144) 2 years ago

Union high wages drove factory work to China because Unions just cost too much. Corporations down to hot dog stands exist to make a profit, not to lose money. Google has left the US and set up in another country because the US charges 35% Many others have left also. Other places charge 12-14% No brainer! Millions saved!! What would you do? Dustpans will now be made in China...no turning back.

[-] 1 points by wewontgetfooledagain (23) 2 years ago

Google hasn't left the US. And US corporations were making profits long before jobs were sent to other countries. Letting far too many auto imports into the USA caused US companies like GM and Ford to lose BILLIONS of dollars. What would I do? Well if I were a politician/lawmaker I'd try to pass laws to bring jobs back to the USA and help the 99% while the 1% remain rich, maybe not quite as rich but rich enough to keep business going. The GAP is too wide.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

I'm asking YOU to help out.

Do the correct thing, and accept the lowest wages possible.

Is $0.50 too much? I could get you even more hours at $0.25.

[-] 1 points by mandodod (144) 2 years ago

We will never pay that low. The jobs are already gone. We will never build dustpans again. Why should we? Also, with India and Mexico, they can make stuff way cheaper.. The jobs are lost. Sorry.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

I want you to work for that.

If it's good for the goose, it's good for the gander.

How much are you making now?

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[-] 0 points by USCitizenVoter (720) 2 years ago

Today a CEO is often paid 70, 80 or over 100 times the salary of their average worker, when three decades ago the ratio usually stood at 13 to 1.

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

So what is your simple point??

Inflation, is that CEO doing exactly the same work with the same resources that he was doing when the ratio was 13-1, I can understand a CEO working with a ratio of 13 - 1 three decades ago who had 100 employees. Compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges. Now you have a CEO with a ration of 70-1 with 1.2 million employees - what exactly is the point you are trying to make.

Just try to imagine that this is your final written exam in either your English or your Economics class and give yourself a grade on that paper.

[-] 0 points by USCitizenVoter (720) 2 years ago

If you work at Walley World then you must feel like your working on a Chain Gang. I feel sorry for you and I hope that some other jobs open up for you. Good Luck to you.

P/S I have found lots and lots of items on the market sold for lower prices than the prices at a walmart.

I'm for boycotting walmart permanently. You'll never get another red cent from me walmart.

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

You talking to me?? Never worked at WalMart a day in my life.

I do not doubt your second statement at all. I purchase over $1,000 per week at WalMart and Sams. I do not have the luxury of the time to find lots and lost of items for lower prices although, I can pretty much give you the comparable prices between WalMart, KMart, Alco, etc and I will purchase the less expensive if of the same brand, weight, etc PROVIDED, it doesn't mean one trip for one item about 5 miles away - just not economically sound to me.

Boycotting is a good thing. More power to you.

[-] 0 points by USCitizenVoter (720) 2 years ago

Sounds like you own a company that resells stuff you buy from Walley World. If I had the name of it I would boycott you too. :)

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

Well - I wasn't going to do this, but here goes. I am back into your world of great assumptions. Let's practice: I have four apples and four oranges. How many do I have? or you may want to try this one: I have four apples and four oranges and I let you hold 2 of each, how many do I have now. This is called advanced math so it may challenge you a little.

I do not own a company that resells stuff from Walley World. You see they have that contracted out already - you did know that did you not. They used to get rid of it through Bud's Stores but not any more. Bud was Sam's brother, I am sure you knew that. Years ago, I did purchase palletts from a company that got rid of Target items. I am sure that you know that once that BOX is thrown away, that doll is not worth much to Target. That is called customer services - because they do allow you to return it and it goes into a huge pile, is shrink wrapped and sold to the highest bidder who IS NOT real hung up on selling boxes anyway. (or it was at that time - they may have it contracted out now too).

My company's name is STUPID, you are welcome to come and sit under our big sign out front any time you like (call it boycottin' or whatever.)

[-] 0 points by USCitizenVoter (720) 2 years ago

Oh I know you, why your the JUNKMAN. Have you got a couple (thats 2) of the left handed monkey wrenches. I'll take them if you do. The wrenches make great christmas gifts. I'm looking forward to your reply. Hope you had time to read GirlFridays article that descibes what a troll is.

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

Well, here we go again. The left handed monkey wrenches come packed two to a box (one large and one small). Please explain to me if you want two (one box) like this, or two (two boxes)like this. Man, some people are so difficult to communicate with you have to show them a picture.

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

Well, now I am trapped between boycott and stupid. You have driven me to replying to my own posts, I assume that I should give up.

[-] 0 points by USCitizenVoter (720) 2 years ago

o crap, troll alert, ronjj is a stupid troll.

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

Yeah, call for help USCitizenVoter, you got a troll trapped in your net of absurdity. And no one have has the courtesy to explain what a "troll" is even through I have asked several times.

I happen to have things to say that a I think might challenge some on here to think deeper and to reason more about their stances on a number of topics. You will find that in most of my posts, I do not call names such as you do, nor do I try to shut down the flow in information and discussion like you do.

Sorry I made you mess your pants. Take time out and clean up.

[-] 0 points by USCitizenVoter (720) 2 years ago

You asked what a troll is here read this for yourself.

http://www.alternet.org/media/149197/are_right-wing_libertarian_internet_trolls_getting_paid_to_dumb_down_online_conversations/?page=entire

[-]GirlFriday1 points 6 hours ago

I remember my first philosophy 101 course and my first beer.

"I do not care what threads you write in or what are your views. I only care for interesting discussions. If I called you out here, it is because you have only used logical fallacies on this webpage. It does not matter if you use proper arguments elsewhere, these do not eliminate the fact that you do not do so here. This defense of yours is just another logical fallacy." U jelly?

See this?

http://www.alternet.org/media/149197/are_right-wing_libertarian_internet_trolls_getting_paid_to_dumb_down_online_conversations/?page=entire

Have you seen places like this? http://www.thebrickfactory.com/what-we-do

or this: http://www.thewritersforhire.com/seo/social-media.html

Once upon a time we didn't know how this game worked. But, now........we do.:D U mad?

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

Professional writer? Thank you for the compliment. Thank you.

However, I am happily retired on my $500.00 + monthly social security check - hoping for a cost of living raise this year. That ethanol fiasco screwed me over at the grocery store - did you notice that jump in food prices after we started making that stuff??

If you want to know who I am, I will be more than happy to give you the facts, except for real personal information that is none of your business. Please feel free to ask. You might be surprised and I do not lie nor do I make referrals to http: sites.

[-] -1 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

Three decades ago that CEO has 350,000 employees under his sphere of responsibility. Today he has 1.2 million Is your salary the same as it was the day you started work?? Has your responsibilities increased by the same ratio as that of the CEO. If it comes out that he/she is underpaid according to the ratio you work out, just don't say anything more. OK? I'll not bring it up again.

[-] 1 points by USCitizenVoter (720) 2 years ago

you are stupid, Wally World needs to give the workers some free insurance.

[-] -1 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

And that is taking care of their own group.

How about me the consumer - I want some free cookies.

[-] 1 points by cmt (1195) from Tolland, CT 2 years ago

As a taxpayer, Wal-Mart makes you pay for the way they treat employees.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Corporate_Welfare/WalMart_Welfare.html

[-] 1 points by USCitizenVoter (720) 2 years ago

I'm for boycotting walmart permanently. You'll never get another red cent from me walmart.

[-] 2 points by cmt (1195) from Tolland, CT 2 years ago

Except through your taxes. It's sad.

People who work full time should have enough money not to need Medicaid, SCHIP, and food stamps.

[-] 2 points by USCitizenVoter (720) 2 years ago

People have lost their means to prosper in America. Pay these people fairly and in the future some of them will open businesses better than a walmart.

[-] 1 points by cmt (1195) from Tolland, CT 2 years ago

Exactly!

[-] 1 points by shoesandtables (20) 2 years ago

It's called a LIVING WAGE - something that needs to be talked about more

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

Please explain how that works and do NOT just refer me to another http. What is your interpretation in your own words - that is what I want to hear.

[-] 1 points by cmt (1195) from Tolland, CT 2 years ago

I don't have exact figures in my head, but a huge percent of the children of Wal-Mart employees get public paid medical care due to poverty. Similarly on subsidized school lunches.

[-] 1 points by MiMi1026 (937) from Springfield, VA 2 years ago

this is true. I knew a few wally world employees who were on subsidized housing and medicaid.

[-] -1 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

But that is based on total family income. If a parent is absent from the scene, there are Xnumber of children in the family, etc, your claim may be true. It is also true if no one in the family works at WalMart. Does this apply to McDonalds too? What is the bigger picture that you are typing to make a point about.

[-] 2 points by cmt (1195) from Tolland, CT 2 years ago

WalMart is the largest employer in the country, which is probably why research has centered on them. I do know that McDonalds has not shown up in the news repeatedly for child labor and wage-and-hour violations in my area, as WalMart has. WalMart has also made cuts which make it even harder for its employees to buy into its health insurance.

The bottom line is that someone who works a full time job, or the equivalent number of hours in 2 or 3 jobs, should be able to live half-way decently.

Do you have actual data about single parent families, or are you guessing? Do you have a reason to defend WalMart?

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

I have no financial, personal, family employment or other reason to defend WalMart. And it was not my intent to defend them. I have seen what they did to Lambert Glove manufacturing in the area where I was born. It was cruel-but so is business in general.

I agree with your bottom line fully. One minimum wage job in our area is not going to put shelter over your head and food on the plate of your family. But this all relative too - are you a single family worker, kids, no kids, your wife have full coverage insurance at her job- why pay twice for the same thing, etc, etc.

What I have been attempting to do is to provide a reason to think about posts placed on this or any other forum which are based on a very narrow view, very limited information and questionable interpretation and solution to any problem presented.

If this is presented as a forum for discussion, learning, and community problem solving there has to be more than stating a fact as a fact and calling everyone else stupid that does not accept the biased presentation.

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[-] 0 points by thegrinchwhostoleyourmoney (15) 2 years ago

It's a Flash Mob!

[-] 0 points by TimMcGraw (50) 2 years ago

there really isn't a good alternative. target's prices are quite a bit more if you do a full load of shopping.

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

Here we go "you get what you pay for" Target has a lot more class than WalMart. You want class, shop Target. You want basic, shop WalMart.

Don't like either, try BigLots, Family Dollar, etc.

[-] 0 points by laffingrass (362) from Normal, IL 2 years ago

Thanks for ruining the movement.

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[-] -1 points by CalifTom (19) 2 years ago

The American Public is stupid. Between the right wing middle class voting for Republicans and the middle to lower income folks shopping at Wal Mart....no wonder they get away with undermining our democracy. It takes an informed citizenry for this country to work.

[-] -1 points by creswell (49) 2 years ago

I shop at Wal Mart almost every week and I'll be shopping there on Black Friday 2011. If you socialist had any sense, ya'll would open up your own store(s) and compete, but no, ya'll rather have a hissy fit outside. There will be more of us inside shopping than you fools outside. Free market wins and socialism loses.

[-] 1 points by xAnonymousx (32) 2 years ago

CRESWELL >LIVING PROOF...that it takes a weak mind to be convinced to vote against their own best interests, obviously knows nothing about supply side economics,and nowhere in a free market capitalist system, is it alright to use your profits to skew the regulations of that system in order to make whatever criminal behavior you choose to use legal. So may I humbly submit a request that creswell grab his little blue cloth walmart checkout bag, fill it with dicks, which I hear go on sale today,,,,,,,,,,and suck them
You're too vacuous to debate, and I'm too tired to educate..... Anonymous

[-] 0 points by creswell (49) 2 years ago

Hi xAnonymousx, Ooooh, First of all, that's Mr. Weak Mind to you. I see that you have just received your GED and you are showing off your impressive vocabulary skills (vacuous). You have also made me blush by describing to me what I should do with a bag of dicks. I will always support a free market system, and so do all of the shoppers in this country. Here in Detroit, where the OWS/Obsessed With Socialism were protesting, all of them were using cell phones, or using lap top computers, arriving in vehicles, and wearing clothing created by corporations. So what I saw was hypocrites denouncing companies but also using their products. Anyway, I have enjoyed this exchange with you, hope you and your family have a safe Christmas, do some shopping and go to church on Christmas day. Victory!!

[-] 1 points by xAnonymousx (32) 2 years ago

Okay....creswell Since you have classified yourself as a MR. then I guess I can take the time to educate you a little, OWS isn't about Robin Hood, or is it ? Free Market Capitalism infers a few things you don't mention, like free from excessive greed, free from corruption, free from double standards,free from bribing the rule makers, you obviously don't understand that economics, just like water are usually self leveling, it was intended to ebb and flow,as nothing ever stays the same,and nobody could expect infinite positive growth,well except(stockholders),and while they hold the CEO & Boards balls in their hands they demand just that, which turns ebb and flow in to bubble and bust,,,,ooooh! more big GED analogies, now even bubble and bust could be deemed acceptable if there were no inside track insuring that (the Elite) didn't always have safe harbor from the bust portion of that equation, but through Corporate lobbyists bribing our Government officials to set regulations or remove them, or by setting taxes or reducing them, or by granting permits, or restricting them, or bailing out the elite class and penalizing the rest to pay for it, these are the things that define an unequal playing field, which is exactly why MOM & POP can't compete anymore,and if you think buying Chinese materials to assemble clothes in Guatemala, while avoiding taxes,and paying slave wages to third world company employees, all the while keeping the MSRP up as if they were made in America is a Free market, then you are more than sad your just ignorant, but I have a solution for that....lets say we sit down to a game of 5 card stud...you have all the luck in the world and get dealt a Royal Flush, well of course you bet the farm after all, it's not only a winner, it's the biggest winner of all time in a 5 card game, so you bet it all,and right when you're about to gather the giant pot that's amassed I turn over my 4 -2's, claiming Righteous Victory !!!...Now sure you're going to want to argue the point, but to no avail little man, because unbeknown to you "Hoyle" or as I like to call him Uncle Edmond, and I got together,and after a minute or two of negotiating, Uncle Edmond (Pronounced) and made poker law 4-2's best hand ever, now never mind what you thought about your Royal, because it's just not the way things work anymore,and after all I am not obligated to inform you of every living relative I happen to have or what particular sway I might hold over the dealer,,,,,so...your sad, but stuck with the losing result just the same......Now make that poker game capitalism,make the cards written in long hand in a language you don't understand,and have the players using their uncles to change the rules daily...........How often do you want to play now ????......Now just Imagine one more thing......Wall Street is the accounting firm of the free market, and they are allowed to make huge side bets on the poker game,and they get to see everyones hand in advance, oh yeah,and only they& I KNOW that 4-2's has been made in to the best hand (The concept of financial derivatives is not commonly understood by the general public. ,The contractual setup between an object and a share of stock or currency is characteristic of the concept of financial derivatives. The price of both should move in tandem, directly related to the increase or decrease in value of the financial derivative. Derivatives are things that cannot stand alone in terms of value - the value is directly related to something else in the economy. Many people consider futures and swaps to be financial derivatives. Options are also financial derivatives. With the underlying value of an object established, it is almost impossible to conceive of how much an object is worth without that understanding. Sometimes you can think of what the face value of an object could be, but this would be using complicated mathematical formulas to separate the object’s value from the other currency, stock, share, or object and its value. So to stop your attempts at being snarky and foolish,

[-] 1 points by xAnonymousx (32) 2 years ago

I will end with this, what I have described above which is fact,and can be easily researched, is a capitalist system where only a very select few actually know which way the wind is blowing, yet you think we all should be forced to put our kites in flight,and that if we don't it's our own damn fault..... If you truly believe that, that corrupted system is a representation of a (fair) free market, then how would you feel if the majority of the people decided to put their morals down, like a sack of bricks,and just start making rules amongst ourselves about how to handle our finances, for instance ,everyone involved and profiting from these phony financial derivative objects, gets beaten to death like a baby seal, now I know that may be hard to understand,but what the hell most didn't understand predatory lending either, it didn't stop them from doing it, most don't understand why anyone would risk North Americas greatest drinking water supply being put at risk for an oil pipeline, but their pushing to do it. So just stay on that Horse as long as you can skippy, because this is just the beginning of this thing, if the 99% decided to drop their moral sense about the greater good or "I am my brothers keeper", then there will be those among them that find eradicating the gluttonous Pigs Quite acceptable,after all you seem to think that it should be "each to the dictates of ones own conscience" What if I like so many other Corporate Pigs, took nothing in to account but my bottom line $$$....and I too was capable of putting my conscience down like a sack of bricks, then what ??? You become my entertainment until I'm bored with you,and your horse my transportation, until I decide to eat it......Don't make claims that you support all rules being subjective, because there are those among you that have been so unfairly dealt with in this latest financial crash,and the manipulation of the rules that they would gladly eat you and your horse,,,,,and then like you I would just have to say what your ilk says.....I got mine......go get your own !.......one further note: pertaining to your Church reference, you obviously think it matters,so my observation of your comments would be....."Sitting in a church obviously no more makes you a Christian,than sitting in your garage makes you a car"................................Anonymous

[-] 0 points by creswell (49) 2 years ago

And I, will end with this one, the OWS/Obsessed With Socialism thugs are people who want to banish WM, are jealous of someone else's success. Wal-Mart, Sam's, Costco and the malls parking lot was off the hook near full, take that parasites. P.s. Cyber Monday will be even more.

[-] 1 points by xAnonymousx (32) 2 years ago

I'll make this short and sweet for those that seem to have had nothing to do today but be a troll, until you remove Profit as an objective in 3 separate things, this country will be full of people like cresswell. 1. health care. 2 the Justice system. 3. Politics , we are 17th in the world in health results, we incarcerate more people than any other country, Our Government is bought and paid for and thus sets the rules according to the highest bidder, So Cresswell to you for the Holidays since you love things this way ,may I wish you a tumor that goes undetected,after all a cat scan is cheaper than an MRI..and may you do time in jail for being just a smidge over the 0.8 line when driving home from a Christmas party, and for the New Year,the WI version of OWS will be recalling Gov Walker, the Koch brother paid for lackey......oh yeah and since your republican elitist protectionist are trying to DE-fund the FDA ,may your sugar plums dance with Botulism... Happy Holidays..........moron

Anonymous

[-] 0 points by creswell (49) 2 years ago

If you are going to insult me at least spell my name correctly and use a large case "C" and with one "s" please, thank you very much. I am not a Republican, I am a Libertarian, Google my full name, Gregory Creswell of Detroit, and you will get some idea as to who I am. And now to the points /issues you made; I love and support the full idea of making a profit, as long as no one's individual rights are violated, period. Health care; before the feds got into it, the cost was really low, it was way more accessible, doctors made house calls and there were many many more charity clinics and hospitals. Justice system; all we need are laws that protect individual rights and property rights. Politics; reduce the size of the federal government to what it was in 1890 , reduce the power and control of politicians to what is named in the US Constitution, period. And my solutions end with these; 1) support the free market 2) bring back the gold standard (silver would be allowed too) 3) repeal the 16TH Amendment 4) repeal all fees, permits, licenses and mandates 5) stay out of foreign wars/affairs. That's it for now, keep it coming. Victory will come.

[-] 1 points by xAnonymousx (32) 2 years ago

Firstly I used a small (c) because you did in choosing your ID,as usual your type makes a choice and then later wishes it would have been something else,and the double (ss) was an inside joke to me playing off the word "cresset" which means=(historical) an open frame or basket of iron, filled with combustible material, to be burned as a beacon or carried for illumination, usually on a pole....So you'll have to excuse me if My IQ got the better of you,and your focus, but now my attention is drawn to the fact that most of the things in your last post I agree with, but I'm afraid there have been a few changes in the federal law since 1890, that have made positive change in our lives or lives of the disadvantaged , social security, civil rights, EPA, just to name a few, not all government is BAD, just that which is bought and paid for by corporate elitists ,and unfortunately for you, your go big theory for walmart is a part of that corporatocracy ................ The one thing you just don't seem to get is this......When your riding on a Hell Bound Train, the last thing you need to do while looking for a way to derail it, is to , champion the cause of stoking the fire , it is only when you know your headed in the right direction, that you should attempt to put on steam.... Look at the Time the police chose to raid the Occupy movements in LA and Philly, in the cover of dark at nearly 1AM, when most of the world is sleeping or at least the mainstream media would be, all in attempts to not disrupt day to day businesses. If this movement is allowed to be kept only as worrisome as a cloudy day, then NO permanent, positive change will result, the only way to have power over your Masters is to bring the machine to a FULL STOP, and force them to make any needed repairs to get it working again, or find a way to do without the machine(US)....if not it's nothing more than a bunch of like minded people bitching about their own personal circumstances, and they will be washed away weekly like so much NYC bird shit .... Follow the money only works in the short term, Imagine if Hansel and Gretel would have just ran out of bread crumbs.....nothing to follow...not by them to find their way back, but certainly not by anyone else hoping to find 2 tasty kids at the other end........Time to stop the machine..... force those who make nothing to reap what they sow...Nothing !.....these are OUR Parks, these are OUR streets, these are OUR Lakes Rivers ,and Streams , and this is OUR Government, and today none of these things are being managed to benefit THE PEOPLE,and that is their sole purpose for being maintained in the first place.....If thy Limb offends thee...CUT IT OFF......If they Gov. offends me CUT IT OFF, not ...lets go shopping .

Anonymous

[-] 0 points by creswell (49) 2 years ago

p.s. w/o appearing to be arrogant or egotistical, did you get a chance to Google my full name and city.

[-] 0 points by creswell (49) 2 years ago

Touche (could not make the french accent mark) on showing off your IQ. Now I will get to your points; the EPA, daily violate private property rights, we Libertarians believe that all polluters must be made to reimburse their victims. Rather you know this or not but most of the pollution has happen because politicians have allowed companies to pollute government controlled rivers, streams, lakes etc. The best solution, private ownership. Social Security; if we are allowed to keep all of our income, we could plan for our own future, way better than any politician or bureaucrat. Tell me why would you want them to get a hold of your own money. Civil Rights; To fight fascist state laws, by the way, there is no such thing as state's rights, the correct term is state's power, not state's rights, only individuals have rights. Now back to my point, the southern states and some northern and western local governments violate private property rights and individual rights and as so far as the federal politicians, all they had to do, was to strike down those racist laws, period. Also, on the Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act, the Black members of the US House did not want them made permanent but for only so many years as so to make it an issue, time after time after time. Besides, why are the CR laws more enforceable than the US Constitution. Allow me to finish with these Libertarian tidbits; the parks, the streets etc should be privately owned, and you brought up "this is our government.....to benefit the people"........well, we Libertarians understand and know why the framers put this into the Declaration of Independence, "whenever any form of government becomes destructive.......it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to [create a] new [one]"..... Victory with gold power.

[-] 1 points by xAnonymousx (32) 2 years ago

Okay that was enough for me, you're not a Libertarian, you're a nut, read a history book jr. all that crap you just spewed has been tried before in my lifetime, and doesn't work...heres a tidbit for ya...privately owned lakes and streams not only didn't stop polluting it helped create it as a defense tactic, in the 1800's Cattle Barons would damn up the stream or waterway keeping the water for themselves, and charge a toll to let it flow or damn it up to starve you out,as a result cattle ranchers would place their Dead Cows in the water above the barons land poisoning the water so he couldn't use it either.... Not to mention not all individuals have the resources to fight against wealthy land owners.......as far as social security is concerned, get real...what would you do with those that choose not to get any type of retirement or health care plan started on their own, once they get old and sick, somebody is gonna pay who YOU ?.....(forced responsibility) because too many of you 10ft tall and bullet proof idiots wouldn't save a dime for a future you didn't believe in,and low and behold the future comes your old broke and whining "why didn't somebody save me from myself.As far as privately owned parks etc etc.....yeah the elite would just be generous and make the parks available to all lol...yeah Like a time share.....,and as Gas companies keep drilling and setting fire to peoples home water supply, they would be allowed to what, just pay them and continue...continue to what ? make unlivable any place where they thought gas might be within a mile of the surface, your theory has too many flaws to even address, suffice it to say that you my friend are an idealist, unfortunately, that shit don't work in the real world...the Elite Make nothing but Money $$ they have no discernible skills whatsoever, and would just DIE if left to their own resources, can't eat money, can't drink money, can't breath money,but I have an idea for them, they can roll the bills in to tight round plugs to fill the bullet holes in hopes of stopping the bleeding , Look kid in a perfect world what you described would be Utopia, but that's not gonna happen, it's not human nature..... look up Calvinism or social Darwinism, and you'll see what your ideas would bring to our future......What we have when it hasn't been bastardized by Money, and greed is a Republic with Democratic principles. A woman approached Benjamin Franklin on the courthouse steps after the declarations signing, and said "what have you done to us"....his reply "I have given you a Republic Madam, and now it's your job to keep it" The saying is NOT "money is the root of all evil " the saying IS...... "The Love of money is the root of all evil "........but keep swinging kid some day you'll be able to hit the curve, and then it's off to the bigs for you...

Anonymous

[-] 0 points by creswell (49) 2 years ago

Mine will not be as lengthy as your's. I'll just inform you and anyone else that may read this post, "$52 Billion" was spent this past Black Friday 2011 weekend, a lot was spent in Wal-Mart, I know this because I was in one (MI). Victory.

[-] -1 points by OregonRuts (61) 2 years ago

Walmart reduces food costs to low income families by 15-20%. they are on the forefront of marketing locally grown fruits and vegetables. Wrong target.

[-] -1 points by eyeofthetiger (304) 2 years ago

why do they call it Black Friday? sounds racist to me does it mean that it's a sale for blacks?

[-] 1 points by vnayar (289) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

In accounting, a negative balance is called "red" and a positive balance is called "black", referring to the ink that used to be used. Many companies first meet their operating costs on the day after Thanksgiving when everyone goes shopping, thus they go from the "red" into the "black".

Personally, I think it's a terrible name. It's a view point that makes it a holiday to spend as much money as you can, as if the people exist only to increase the profits of corporations.

[-] 0 points by eyeofthetiger (304) 2 years ago

thanks I never knew what that term meant I heard of being in the red but being positive it should be in the green should'nt it? makes more sense to me

[-] -1 points by pinker (586) 2 years ago

Why doesn't this event start earlier? Like 7am when the throngs are there?

[-] 1 points by KirkVanHouten (123) 2 years ago

OWS types aren't exactly early risers.

[-] 0 points by pinker (586) 2 years ago

I was thinking they might not want to confront people so poor they camp outside Walmart to get a computer.

[-] -1 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 2 years ago

Have the Walmart workers agreed to this? Did they have a chance to decide through consensus if they wanted three Occupy factions to come in and occupy their store, and, in so doing, risk their jobs? Or, is this something Occupy decided all by themselves?

[-] 1 points by MiMi1026 (937) from Springfield, VA 2 years ago

They'd be very happy to see people CARED enough about them to demonstrate against the low wages,no healthcare insurance and poor part time working conditions . Yes Im sure no one told them to take a walmart job.However walmart is known for their discriminatory practices towards women. Working for walmart is about as close to servitude as one can get. The workers practically have no rights.

[-] 1 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 2 years ago

Sure, but that doesn't answer my question. Did the workers at this particular store have a say in the matter? I think that's important, no?

[-] 3 points by MiMi1026 (937) from Springfield, VA 2 years ago

you i@%$, walmart workers NEVER have a say!!

[-] 0 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 2 years ago

My point exactly!! This is a great opportunity to give them a say!! Empower them by letting them decide instead of doing what WalMart does!! Teach by example!! Let them decide how the situation should be handled!! Ask them what Occupy can do to help!! Don't force an occupation down their throats like WalMart forces bad contracts down their throats!! Work with them!!

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[-] -2 points by HarryPairatestes2 (380) from Barrow, AK 2 years ago

How much should be paid per hour to a person stocking items at Walmart?

[-] 6 points by XenuLives (1645) from Charlotte, NC 2 years ago

The federal minimum wage needs to increase to support the ability for every working person in the country to sustain themselves. The minimum wage has NOT increased in any sort of realistic proportion to the increase in living expenses.

I think $15/hr is the absolute lowest amount that any laborer should be paid in this country.

[-] 4 points by GarnetMoon (424) 2 years ago

ESWA did a study several years ago and found that a "minimum living wage" was about $24.00/hr. This is in the Northeast...

[-] 0 points by HarryPairatestes2 (380) from Barrow, AK 2 years ago

$46,000 a year for an unskilled worker to stock items on a shelf?

[-] 1 points by GarnetMoon (424) 2 years ago

Yes.

[-] 1 points by XenuLives (1645) from Charlotte, NC 2 years ago

Everyone deserves decent pay for a hard day's work, regardless of how "skilled" it is perceived to be.

[-] 1 points by HarryPairatestes2 (380) from Barrow, AK 2 years ago

So if I have one employee as a clerk in my store I have to pay them $46,000 a year even if I am not making enough to pay myself that salary? How does that make sense and how does that increase job availability for small businesses?

[-] 2 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

If you can't afford to pay yourself $46,000 a year, then maybe you shouldn't be in business.

[-] 1 points by gamer86 (32) 2 years ago

@SwissMiss

Another genius reply from SwissMiss! So genius... what if you have 4 clerks all of whom demand $46,000 a year in salary? What if you have 10 clerks? The business owner would be broke... but that's OK as long as his/her employees are making out fine!

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[-] 0 points by HarryPairatestes2 (380) from Barrow, AK 2 years ago

Perceived to be? How much skill is involved in putting t-shirts on a shelf or sweeping a floor?

[-] 1 points by XenuLives (1645) from Charlotte, NC 2 years ago

It doesn't matter how much skill it takes to do those tasks. Those people deserve to have decent pay for doing the work, period.

Small businesses are hurt from a minimum wage increase, yes. I agree on that. However, there is nothing stopping this wage increase to coincide with an increased tax break for these businesses, or other programs that would use our taxpayer money to help out the local community businesses instead of bailing out "too big to fail" banks. These things are bundled into bills all of the time.

[-] 1 points by SeaChange (134) 2 years ago

True. Also, once everyone is paid a living wage, they will have more money to in turn purchase from small businesses. This is Keynesianism and it was the dominant economic philosophy during the US's most prosperous period, the post-WWII epoch. You could call it "trickle up economics", but regardless of what you call it, it worked a lot better than what we have now.

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[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

Agreed.

[-] 1 points by MiMi1026 (937) from Springfield, VA 2 years ago

Agreed. $29,000. a yr is barely enough to get by after taxes.

[-] 2 points by occupyyourself85 (-1) 2 years ago

OK. Let's raise the minimum wage and then all start paying equally higher prices on all items that we purchase, making our minimum wage increase a total wash. Genius idea.

[-] 1 points by XenuLives (1645) from Charlotte, NC 2 years ago

How about we continue to pay the price that the market will bear, regardless of how much people are earning. You will see a minor price bump on some products, but not on all of them. The increase in quality of life for a large amount of Americans more than makes up for any minor price change that could come from this.

Big Macs still cost $2.59 for millionaires as they do for everyone else.

[-] -1 points by HarryPairatestes2 (380) from Barrow, AK 2 years ago

Remember, at that income level they stand a good chance of getting state and/or federal tax refunds come April 15.

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[-] 0 points by HarryPairatestes2 (380) from Barrow, AK 2 years ago

During the year that is being withheld, right? Do you get a refund come tax time?

[-] 2 points by MiMi1026 (937) from Springfield, VA 2 years ago

Due to the fact that my husband works too...its none of your business.

[-] 0 points by HarryPairatestes2 (380) from Barrow, AK 2 years ago

So you aren't just living off your $29k a year. so what was the point of your argument?

[-] 2 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

Are you saying that if someone is married, they don't deserve to make a decent wage, just because of being married and their spouse makes more money than they do?

[-] 0 points by aeturnus (231) from Robbinsville, NC 2 years ago

I agree, but it also needs to be understood that small businesses can not afford to pay that rate. We need to have a mechanism in place in which such a wage can be utilized across the board. If we just come up with a law stipulating that right now, it would likely be disastrous. I believe it is something we ought to be fighting for in the future and something we should be arguing for, but that is why I support a millionaire's tax.

[-] 0 points by HarryPairatestes2 (380) from Barrow, AK 2 years ago

Millionaire's tax?

[-] -2 points by HarryPairatestes2 (380) from Barrow, AK 2 years ago

On top of $15/hour do you also want the employer to pay 100% of health care and pension benefits or does the employee need to pay some part of those?

[-] 2 points by USCitizenVoter (720) 2 years ago

100k a year including their yearly goal bonus pkg of stock certificates

[-] 1 points by aeturnus (231) from Robbinsville, NC 2 years ago

And the company ought to be reorganized such that a person stocking items is also in charge of a few other things, allowing him more say in the overall activities of the organization. If that were to happen, then how much he is paid an hour ought to be higher.

Secondly, a stock boy is considerably even more boring and rote than a cashier, so a cashier ought to be paid lower. Again, though, reorganizing a business with a desire to break up the division of labor helps combat this line of thought.

[-] 2 points by aeturnus (231) from Robbinsville, NC 2 years ago

On thinking about what I just read, a cashier ought to be paid higher, simply because of more responsibility handling money. My mistake in thought, thinking too deeply, I guess, but I still hold firm to the idea that reorganizing a business with a desire to break up the division of labor helps combat this line of thought.

[-] -1 points by HarryPairatestes2 (380) from Barrow, AK 2 years ago

Unfortunately, some of the people who work as stockers are people I would not want to be making decisions that affect the store. Just let them put the soup cans on the shelf.

[-] 1 points by aeturnus (231) from Robbinsville, NC 2 years ago

Well, that is not how I think. Making decisions that affect the store ought to be done by consensus or some sort of voting mechanism. I'm talking about a couple of jobs. If you prove good at those, you can do some other different things. It's a thought derived from trying to balance out wage scales, really.

[-] 0 points by HarryPairatestes2 (380) from Barrow, AK 2 years ago

Does that include part time workers having a say on how the business is run?

I think what people are missing is that being a stocker at Wal-Mart should not be considered a career. It is a job that was never created to be one a person is going to have for 20 years and support a spouse and kids, save for college, etc.

It is the same kind of job you get in high school at the local clothing store, fast food joint, or car wash. Earn some money while you improve yourself for a better job.

But in the past few years the argument is being made that these low level unskilled jobs should be equivalent to skilled jobs and earn equal pay. Really?

[-] 2 points by XenuLives (1645) from Charlotte, NC 2 years ago

For the people who have these jobs as their ONLY options, yes.

Not everyone needs, or has the means, to go to college and get a "skilled" job. These people are Americans too. Do they not get to earn a decent life for themselves?

[-] 1 points by HarryPairatestes2 (380) from Barrow, AK 2 years ago

So because they choose to not improve their situation in life they should be paid more then their job is worth?

My brother in law's job is a parking lot attendant at a local horse racing track. He has had this job for over 20 years. He makes $30k a year. During the 8 hours he works all he does is sit in a booth watching TV (he works at night and is the person to let in horse trainers to the stalls). he has never done anything to improve his position at the track or in life. yet you believe he should be rewarded for his choices.

During the same period of time his wife went from being a receptionist at a real estate office to becoming a successful real estate agent earning over a $150k a year, even during the real estate downturn. She studied, took classes, passed tests and did what it took to not be on the bottom of the ladder.

[-] 1 points by XenuLives (1645) from Charlotte, NC 2 years ago

I have a friend who works full-time unloading trucks at Wal*Mart. He has a fiancee and a 2-year-old child to take care of at home. The fiancee is jobless despite searching for who-knows-how-many months now. He WOULD go back to school, except that taking care of a child while still holding down that full-time job takes up all of his time. He also doesn't have any money after bills to pay the bloated tuition that the college system wants to charge him.

Loans? People in his shoes don't have the luxury of owning a credit card, new car, or any other "traditional" source of credit. He will not get qualified for anything, much less a huge student loan that his family wouldn't be able to pay back anyhow.

My friend and his family will be homeless if he loses that job. If his pay gets cut then he will fall behind on bills, eventually leading to the same conclusion. Basically, his entire well-being is in the hands of a large corporation that doesn't give two shits about him.

Some people don't have a choice. Are we not humane enough to ask that these people have at least a decent wage?

[-] 0 points by HarryPairatestes2 (380) from Barrow, AK 2 years ago

No he does have a choice and he did make choices that proved unwise. having a kid before you can afford to care for the kid is a problem. he can go to school but not full time. he can go to a junior college and take courses online. His fiancee can work at Wal-Mart, they always seem to be hiring (I know it's like going to the devil for help).

But should salary be based on individual needs? If he didn't have a kid or an unemployed fiancee living with him, should he then not qualify for higher pay?

[-] 1 points by XenuLives (1645) from Charlotte, NC 2 years ago

No, I was pointing out that not everyone is like your relative who minds the parking lot. It seems like you are trying to make the correlation that people "deserve" their shitty pay that barely gets them by.

I don't consider heavy lifting for 8 hours "easy" work. I don't consider my friend stupid. He has a different knowledge base that I do. I know my way around computers, he knows his way around cars. He didn't do so well in the computer programming classes. I can't do anything beyond the most basic maintenance to my vehicle. Just because he doesn't have his degree doesn't make him a lesser person than me. He has a different skill set.

We all need people who are good with computers and cars. We need people to do the heavy lifting, so that Wal*Mart has their shelves filled with Chinese goods that we seem to love buying. Instead of shaming these people for not being college-educated like us, we should support them.

[-] 1 points by XenuLives (1645) from Charlotte, NC 2 years ago

Look, my friend made a big mistake. He had that kid WAY too early. Should we "punish" him for the rest of his life because of this one mistake? Its not like he killed somebody.

[+] -4 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

According to statistics, somewhere up or down from their average of $9.98 per hour and up probably how bad they need stockers.

In our case, they need them real bad. I am headed out there now and I only expect to find 1/2 of the items on my list.

[-] -3 points by fatherlenin (1) 2 years ago

So this is where the communist hang out. What is your alternatives? Collapse the American capitalist system? Transfer power from the hands of the corporations to the hands of the government/party leaders? How well has that worked out for China? N. Korea? Cuba?

You kids are clueless. Without these "evil" corporations, you'd be living like real peasants, except you wouldn't have your laptops, your Kindles, your iPhones, and iPods and your asses would be working in some cesspool of a state run factory or farm 16 hours a day, trying to provide food for the millions of people the government is trying to provide for, all the while, the party leaders would be living just like the corporate CEO's you hate so much. And if you dared even try to "protest" or "occupy" anything, you'd be run over by tanks, or rounded up and shot, or thrown into prison/work camps for the rest of your lives.

Go ahead and protest against a system you hate, but still allows you voice your hate without retribution. Go ahead and hate Walmart, but please turn in your iPhones and other gadgets you are using to communicate and organize the proletariat and take down this website (hosted by an evil corporation no doubt and do it grassroots style...hand out pamphlets on the street corners.

[-] 3 points by nicck (3) 2 years ago

Dear those who revel in rhetoric. I don't own a single Apple product, use any apple programs, buy overpriced clothes at the Gap or Urban Outfitters, buy overpriced coffee from Starbucks or any other major chain coffee shop. I've been to Occupy Wall Street several times. If you disagree with the movement politically fine, but stop using moronic generalizations about who's involved in it as a means of dismissing it.

[-] -2 points by fatherlenin (1) 2 years ago

The whole movement is rhetoric. Stop using the internet.

[-] 1 points by dealdoctor (148) 2 years ago

Everyone knows the political and economic systems are broken. Is some kind of new paradigm possible? This video begins that discussion. See if it causes you to think about what you have been taught is right. A crisis is a good time to re-evaluate basic assumptions. Reality trumps any ideology conservative or liberal.

http://tinyurl.com/5swbwzz

[-] 0 points by whosear (2) 2 years ago

The economic system needs reform. So I'm voting for Mitt Romney, the only candidate that has the proven track record of reducing and eliminating favoritism towards corporations in tax policy. For example, banks in MA were forming real estate trusts. He hired a specialist to comb the tax law and eliminated many, and had to be stopped when he tried to go national.

Seeking Taxes, Romney went after Business

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/02/us/politics/romneys-strategies-as-governor-bucked-his-ceo-image.html?pagewanted=all

[-] 2 points by buddazjade (4) 2 years ago

Im sorry to be the one to tell you this but Republicans are never the answer. After Reagan and Two Bush's I would think that would be pretty obvious. If you support the wealthy 1 percent getting richer while the middle class and lower class just get poorer, well I guess Mitt Romney is the choice for you.

[+] -4 points by occupyyourself85 (-1) 2 years ago

This is absolutely ridiculous. This article states that there are MILLIONS of people employed by Wal-Mart. That is MILLIONS of people of now have jobs. Big business is corrupt for employing MILLIONS of people? Is company health insurance a RIGHT or a PRIVILEGE? I believe that is whey they call them "perks" and "benefits" Ok, yes, there is corruption in big business. There is corruption in small business as well. Unfortunately, when business are filled with PEOPLE, corruption will happen. I wonder if one of those $8 employees has ever stolen anything from Wal-Mart. My guess is that it's happened. Let's occupy those employees homes because they are corrupt! (sarcasm). Running a successful business in not a crime. Wal-Mart has done more good for each city it has "occupied" than bad. If a Wal-Mart employee wants to make more than $8 an hour, they should go seek employment elsewhere. To those who think minimum wage needs to be increased, have you ever wondered what happens to prices of the items that you purchase when a company has to pay it's workforce more? YOU pay more, the price of everything goes up and it all comes out a wash in the end. Crazy huh?The employer has no responsibility to pay them any more than what they agree to pay them. Should they pay their employees more? Maybe. But that is their prerogative. Quit whining that big business are making a profit and go find a job. If you don't like where you work, you have the RIGHT to go find something else. OR you could start your OWN business and run it the way YOU think is most fair.

[-] 2 points by dealdoctor (148) 2 years ago

The slave owners in the old South did give food and housing to their slaves. I do not know if they were considered "perks" or "benefits". There were very many who thought that system was just business as usual and should not be questioned. My gosh, Southern Christians even found Bible verses to support the institution of slavery or was it "wage slavery". It must have been wage slavery because they did get food and housing "wages". Sure all those slaves were lazy too, right? Dirty, right? Needed a bath? Right? Could an entire system be flawed? Only people who think out of the box their tradition gave them can even imagine a change of the entire system. Going back to cave man times is not an option. Can you imagine something more people friendly instead of just bank account friendly? Slavery did get lots of money in the bank for the slave holder but it was really not people friendly for the 99% caught in its web.

[-] 1 points by occupyyourself85 (-1) 2 years ago

Are you really trying to compare working at Wal-Mart to slavery?

[-] -3 points by HarryPairatestes2 (380) from Barrow, AK 2 years ago

Slaves did not have a choice regarding their "employment." Workers at Wal-Mart are free to find another job anytime they want.

[-] 2 points by gladyg (4) from Meshoppen, PA 2 years ago

Where?!!! Get a grip on reality. Where are people hired at Walmart going to get a job. Wake up.!!! When it hits you it will be too late. I guess you have no clue and you SNOOZE WE ALL LOSE!!!

[-] -2 points by HarryPairatestes2 (380) from Barrow, AK 2 years ago

Are you serious? the people hired at Walmart have no other job choices?? If you believe that to be true, then isn't Walmart doing a good thing for the community by hiring these otherwise unemployable people?

[-] 1 points by gladyg (4) from Meshoppen, PA 2 years ago

Seriously. Where?

[-] 0 points by HarryPairatestes2 (380) from Barrow, AK 2 years ago

Where did all of the walmart employees work before walmart came to town? Were they just a big mass of unemployed people waiting for walmart to show up?

[-] 1 points by gladyg (4) from Meshoppen, PA 2 years ago

Besides the high unemployment rate!!

[-] 0 points by gladyg (4) from Meshoppen, PA 2 years ago

A lot of them are recently graduated from school or retired. Most people are aware of that.

[-] -1 points by HarryPairatestes2 (380) from Barrow, AK 2 years ago

You're making it up as you go, right?

[-] 1 points by buddazjade (4) 2 years ago

Your comment is both ignorant and offensive. No body is whinning that big business is simply making a profit. The complaint is that worker in the 99 percent are getting less while the top 1 percent are triplling their porfits, at the expense of those who are less fortunate (I'd say sarcasm but it simply is the truth). I do not know what your economic situation is and I am not going to attempt a guess. Your pass at justifying the corruption on "being human" is weak. The truth is the stock holders and CEO's running these companys are greedy! Lets take Walmart for example. It is on the top of any list at being one of the most profitable businesses. In fact billions of dollars in revenue and billions of dollars in profits. Instead of these profits being used to give raises, better benefits, or to create jobs, they are being used to line the pockets of those running the business. You might not be aware but one billion dollars reinvested back into the company every year would make things significantly better for ALL Walmart employees. According to you that is completly unreasonable. Heavans forbid that the CEO of Walmart make a million or two less! As for your statement regarding changing jobs. Jobs are not out there for those at the bottom part of the 99 percent. Any jobs that are available only pay minimum wage or slightly over. A single person with no kids cannot sufficiently provide for them selves getting paid minimum wage. There is no possible way for a person to pay for all of their necessisites (food, shelter, utilities, transportant) on 200 dollars a week. People go to work, so they can pay their bills and in most cases not even make enough to do that. So I guess my point is, who do you think you are? How do you look at your self in the mirror? I would find it very hard to consider myself a good, riteous, and virtuous person with an opinion like yours. In fact its people like you that perpetuate the greed and corruption because you think it is ok. That it is all part of the natural order. Well it is not! You and everyone who thinks like you is WRONG!

[-] -1 points by HarryPairatestes2 (380) from Barrow, AK 2 years ago

You should also be protesting at your pension plan. Most of the stockholders are pension plans. Your retirement pay is funded by the profits of Walmart.

[-] -2 points by HarryPairatestes2 (380) from Barrow, AK 2 years ago

$200 a week? Where in the U.S. is that the minimum wage for a full time Walmart employee?

You are making an assumption that a person working as a store clerk at Walmart is a career job that requires high wages and full benefits. Why not describe it as it really is: a beginning job for entering the workforce. A clerk at Walmart should not be thinking this is the career job for the next 20 years unless they are hoping to work up the ladder toward management.

The average minimum wage pay at Walmart is just below $10/hour depending on which state you are talking about. That comes out to just below $20k a year. The job is not meant to be a job to support a family.

Does a CEO making $20 million a year or more mean anything different for the minimum wage worker? No. If the CEO reduced their pay to say $1 million a year that remaining $19 million divided among 2.1 million workers (includes management) comes out to $9.00 for each worker.

[-] 2 points by buddazjade (4) 2 years ago

I would love to know what Walmart you shop at? I know people who work there and they would be thrilled to make 10 dollars an hour. Granted wages differ based on location and the cost of living in the area the business is located. So businesses located in a higher cost area inherently pay more (common sense). In all actuality the "10 dollars" an hour made in higher living areas really equates to minimum wage or slightly over.

Even at just below 20k a year a person still cannot afford their basic necessities. These basic necessities have changed over time but they include houseing, food, utilities, medical/dental/vision, car and auto insurance. At bare minimum these things cost 1700 dollars a month. That comes out to 400 dollars over 20k. So I am extremely confused why you are supporting my arguments for me? I appreciate it!

The assumption I am making is that any person, in any job, should make enough money to take care of them selves. I never said that a store clerk should make high wages, but no person should ever have to slave 40 hours a week, every week, get paid nothing, have no benefits and still have to struggle to pay their bills and provide for them selves. That is greedy business people thinking they are better than the average person because they came up with a great idea. They are no better than anyone else. People who started with nothing and build a million or billion dollar empire should do well to remember where they came from. The problem is that a lot of people with money are born into it and have no idea what it is to budget, go without, go hungry so your kids can eat. The practice of using and abusing the average work is inhumane and crule. In fact I would even go so far to say that the practices are unconstitutional. We as American citizens are guaranteed the right to life, liberty and the persuit of happiness. What businesses are doing are denying people the right to live (and not in the literal sense so come back with something stupid).

As for your oh so poetic comments on the salary of a CEO. I never said the money taken away from CEOs or stock holders had to only translate into an hourly increase. It could be used toward improving aspect of the company that involve everyone, for example, better insurance, offering sick time and vaction pay, holiday bonuses etc. If we are talking about putting back money into the company, then there are plenty of share holders, besides the CEO, who make a great deal of money. They can take pay cuts also. Which will certainly privide more money. Lets not forget all the tax breaks businesses get from the government. There is more than enough money for businesses to pay more, provide better benefits, and create more jobs. So please stop making it sound like Walmart and other companies are so victimized and are doing us such a great service because they simply provide work. I'm sorry but I need more, I expect more from American business.

[-] -1 points by HarryPairatestes2 (380) from Barrow, AK 2 years ago

You never answered my first question: Who is getting paid $5/hour at Walmart so they only earn $200 a week?

Where do you get $1700 a month for the basic necessities per month?

Here is a guy who was able to live on $20k a year in San Francisco: http://martynemko.blogspot.com/2010/02/how-i-could-live-well-on-20000-year.html

Remember, not every job is meant to be a career. What incentive would there be to move up in life if being a clothes stacker at Walmart paid $50k a year?

[-] 2 points by skillciaX (53) 2 years ago

every job isn't a career no, but every job should be able to provide the very basic necessities to live including a one bedroom apartment, food, a car too get to and from your job, utilities, health care and a little spending money to fuel the economy. it's really not too much to ask for when CEO's and many "uppers" make more than enough to support their bottom line. That doesn't mean these people should be able to afford a house and a bmw... there's still incentives to move up in life, but even u've also got to look at things that some people aren't that smart to move up and never will be, some people are disabled preventing them from moving up, some people can't afford higher education, should these people not be able to "make a living"?

[-] -1 points by HarryPairatestes2 (380) from Barrow, AK 2 years ago

Really? The person at the Burger King counter should be paid enough to have "a one bedroom apartment, food, a car too get to and from your job, utilities, health care and a little spending money to fuel the economy"?

You don't understand business or have never owned a business or both.

[-] 2 points by skillciaX (53) 2 years ago

If they aren't paid enough to afford these things, the person is essentially "homeless". You do you not understand the greed here in America. What the CEO of Walmart makes in 2-3 hours could support the living of one person for nearly a year! You don't think someone should be able to have a roof over their head? No car to get to and from whom they serve? No food on the table? No healthcare? Consumer spending is 70% of the economy, so they would need just a small amount out side of their needed expenses to help the economy :). You don't understand how "economy" works. If the money doesn't move and support the weakest on it's team, then our money has no value.

[-] -1 points by HarryPairatestes2 (380) from Barrow, AK 2 years ago

Why does it matter what the CEO makes? You want all jobs to pay enough for a person to afford an apartment, a car, insurance, utilities, health care, spending money, etc. But not all jobs are worth that kind of money. Again, the kid working the counter at Burger King should be paid how much? It is a kind of job that is not meant to be a job to live on solely.