OWS Awaits Ruling to Reoccupy
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 15, 2011, 3:49 p.m. EST by OccupyWallSt
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Don't let the lawyers drag you into a dynamic where you are waiting on the courts of this failed system to tell you whether you have the right to protest. If the courts were capable of addressing our interests then we wouldn't have anything to protest about.
Remember, you took the park with people power. You defended it once, using people power. Lawyer power is not going to work. You need to mobilize thousands to retake the park with people power.
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it's not "public property", per se... it's owned by brookfield management, therefore it's considered private property. i occupied for over two weeks before i came back home (Queens, NY) and i have a lot of mixed, conflicting views even. i think occupying the park is symbolic but we shouldn't be so disorganized, nor should we become a permanent "fixture". we should be flexible, able to bend and twist around any issue in particular but instead we are sloppy and stiff. being organized would not only lead to a cleaner environment but it would allow us to mobilize for any situation easier.
I think there's nothing against the principles to be a "fixture". Industrial waste is also a fixture, and corporate "people" in the form of buildings are a fixture. Do they have a right to occupy? Consider carefully before just moving out.
this 1 oclock raid, attempt to silence the press, continual intimidation, etc, will help the movement. It will continue to open eyes and shine a light on the BS that guys like Bloomberg spew
Right on, changetakesTIME. BB's action will only spur the movement. Let's hope it also spurs him being recalled or at least voted out of office come next election.
The issue the moderator picks with my thread is I had cap's on.???? I'm trying to help the movement next I'll get spell checked. Seem like I may not be in the right place! I very rarely post anything so I don't even know if it got posted. So with a sour feel I'll just say to whoever ...98% won't cut it so maybe quit chasing people like myself off. THX I think!
Guerrilla protesting and civil disobedience would be good. Can't shut you down if they don't know when and where you're going to be.
Amongst other things, people might reconsider the war tax resistance movement of the 1960s. But this time don't just resist taxes for war., Refuse to pay all of them until we get a gov't that works for the people instead of the fat cats.
Brookfield worth 150 billion and got mega millions in federal loans -- could we have forensic audit on those loans?
Lets occupy crowds!!! http://occupywallst.org/forum/flash-protesting-an-idea-to-consider/
http://suzannahbtroy.blogspot.com/2011/11/is-brookfield-using-federal-9-11-money.html Brookfield are they paying retired NYPD with Federal Loans from 9-11 --- some one replied to me--it flashed up and went away...didn’t get the message. All I can say time for a audit of Brookfield’s federal loans 9-11, Dept. of Energy, and...?
Occupy Wall Street turns to the WE Party (www.we.net)
WE will know more when the WE Party Volunteer Online Mentors complete our talks with the Super Committee and Occupy Wall Street. Right now WE are at 99 1/2%.
The best protest would be to occupy a public park and fight for it. Die for the cause don't kill for it. Otherwise it's just someone letting you on private property to protest, whats the nobility of that.
Mayor Bloomberg and the NYPD are ignoring the court order, and refusing to allow the protesters to return. Let's flood the city of New York with calls and e-mails so they know the world is watching. Click "Share" and tell your friends to do the same!
If you live in New York City, you can call the mayor’s office at 311.
Outside of New York City, call 212-NEW-YORK. ... To Fax a message, dial 212-788-8123.
To send an email: http://www.nyc.gov/html/mail/html/mayor.html
PLEASE FORWARD THIS INFO TO OTHERS SO THAT THEY TOO CAN JOIN US IN THIS ACT OF PROTEST!
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No violence, no obedience either. That must be the rule. OWS is not lawless, OWS makes and follows its own laws. The laws of free people.
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A must see lecture: Noam Chomsky at Occupy Boston (q&a at 28min)
yours s SFF
Playing by the rules is not going to get us anywhere! Occupation means Not giving in when some government officials tell you to go home, and not playing their games or following their rules.
I talk about where we should go from here in my new article ”The Transition Phase: The Road To Freedom”
why are we even asking permission to occupy PUBLIC PROPERTY!?
It's not public property. It's private property accessible by the public. The park is owned by Brookfield Properties, not the city.
"The law that created Zuccotti Park required that it be open for the public to enjoy for passive recreation 24 hours a day. " Mayor Bloombergs OWN words.... by law it is allowed to be used by the public 24 hours a day.
Actually, that's not really a law....just an agreement between the space owners and the city.
Actually, zoning IS a really a law, not an agreement. The land is zoned as publicly accessible.
But that zoning law isn't what makes it a park. The owners can shut if off completely if they want. It's their property.
No, they can't. They own the property and can pass ownership of same to another entity. But until the park is zoned differently the land itself is accessible to the public 24 x 7 by zoning law.
Sorry. It doesn't work that way. Having people on the property is actually a legal liability for the owner. If they choose to close the park for that reason, they could. The city might object and challenge it, but it wouldn't hold up in court.
That's why the city can't enforce some of their own park rules. It's private property.
In other words, the property owner isn't obliged to provide a park just because it's zoned that way.
So the law isn't really THE law? Then we're not breaking it with our peaceful occupation and there's no problem.
Purple monkey dishwasher?
No. As things currently stand, you are breaking the law by occupying Ziccotti Park.
I disagree.
That's your opinion, but it's really up to the courts to decide, and right now they don't seem to be thinking your way.
That might change, of course. Due process is a good thing.
It used to be against the law for blacks to occupy a stool at a lunch counter. It used to be illegal for blacks and whites to marry. It used to be illegal for women to vote. It's still against the law for gays to marry in many states. Yes, it is up to the courts to decide. And if they decide against us, then WE need to decide what our next move is. The courts have been on the wrong side of history before and it's good to remember that peaceful civil disobedience has changed laws. That's what so great about being right.
I'm not sure what your beef is, though. Are you against what you consider an illegal trespass on publicly-zoned private property, or why we're doing it? Do you think there's too much corporate money in politics?
No one has said you were right. Occupying a stool at a lunch counter is a far cry from pitching a tent and squatting on private land.
I'm against trespass. Sorry, but just because something is zoned "public" does not give you unfettered rights of "occupation" of that area.
Is pitching a tent on concrete in the middle of city really what you're fighting for?
What's too much corporate money in politics have to do with this particular discussion?
Are you serious? Do you think we're out there to fight for our right to squat on publicly-zoned private land? Come on, xyzzy, don't be intellectually dishonest; you seem smarter than that.
We're fighting to be heard because our politicians aren't listening to us and our media lies to us. All they know is the money. We've tried elections. We've tried letters. We've tried petitions. We've tried boycotts. Maybe marching and occupying will finally send the message that a majority of people in this country (and around the world, it seems) are fed up with a status quo that protects and perpetuates wealth and leaves the rest of us to fight among ourselves like dogs...kind of like you and I are doing right now. If we have to start with our constitutional right to peacefully assemble on public property then that's where we start. And by the way, history says we're right. Wait and see.
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Zuccotti Park isn't public property. It's privately owned.
All the tax dollars the 1% recieved in 08 is also now privatly owned, but that doesnt mean they should keep it. We must take all the wealth back, and we must take the park back!
struggleforfreedom
Take the wealth back? As in property?
This might amuse you. Nearly 30% of US territory is directly owned by the US government. If you really wanted to occupy something, I'm sure they will sell you some at a bargain price.
Are you mentally ill? If this was taking place in a privately owned park in Texas you would be shot on sight and buried out in the desert. Private property is PRIVATE PROPERTY. Not some undefined 1%'s property. Brookfield Properties purchased and maintains the park with their own assets.
Why don't you have OWS 'liberate' the property you live in? I am sure you don't own it, so no real skin of your nose, eh?
Zuccotti Park is not public property. It is a privately owned park by someone who has let you take over his park. It's time for you idiots to go pick up your toys, and head back to your parents' basement.
You are obviously not educated n what's going on. This is history these people are making. Please educate yourself before making these types of comments. It's not just hippies down there.
So a bunch of people standing around in a filthy park makes history? I was down in Washington DC yesterday and met with aids for 2 of my local Congressional Representatives and lobbied for a couple of bills to be passed. What I did will make a difference, not what these morons are doing. I'm 15, these people are older than me and they are acting like children.
If our government worked at all, then most if not all of the current politicians in both the house, senate, and the president would not make more than 30,000 a year and they would all have degrees in science. The truth is that our government doesn't work for us, it works for money, and without money we have no voice, and that is wrong. I believe in fighting for my freedom, not filling out some forms and paying someone off to maybe get just enough freedom to become apathetic and comfortable while millions of people go without food, health care, Education, housing, jobs, and the right to pursuit of happiness. Not while millions of hard working immigrants are deported or shot, not while the rich continue to control the poor, I for one will NOT stand for it, and neither should you.
OK so if you want to make a difference then actually do it. Don't join some group that occupies parks, streets, and shuts down commerce. Go be a responsible citizen, and meet with one of your local congressional leaders. Instead of protesting outside their offices, go meet them and have your voice actually heard. I don't support what you are saying, but you are a US citizen, and you have the right to free speech. Just go actually make a difference, don't join a group of people who are all angry for different reasons. They can't and won't accomplish anything.
My young friend, as far as I am concerned, you are most welcome to post your views on this site. I applaud that you are not apathetic and are doing your best to help your country the best way you see fit at such a young age.
I am 57 and have an 8 year old daughter. I support the OWS movement because sadly, I no longer believe that the system works. I honestly believe that all attempts to work within the system to bring about change are futile. I support OWS because I want my daughter (and you) to inherit a better world.
I can only ask one thing of you. In order to be true to yourself, why not question some of what you have been told and taught? What makes you so sure that visiting a congressman and lobbying for a position will make a difference? When you see the pain and suffering being experienced today by so many Americans, do you wonder how we got to this place? Please keep an open mind. There is right and wrong in everything, and often it is difficult to discern exactly what is right and what is wrong. We all make mistakes and that is part of growing up, so don't be afraid to make mistakes. Search your soul. I hope you join us as we all figure out together what the future of our nation will be. You will be welcome.
You may only be 15 occupyajob, but you are wise beyond your years. I was having a conversation with a 22 year old on this site and he was not as articulate as you. Congrats to your parents and to you...
Thank you very much, that means a lot. Most of these people on here and those that are part of Occupy Wall Street are just complete morons.
occupyajob, you sound like you really don't know what's going on in the world.
Zuccotti Park is privately owned but by law it's a public space, accessible to the 99% and you, rich kid. You are obviously too young to have an understanding of the forces arrayed against ordinary people who are fighting to make sure that children like you have affordable, quality education and a job when you grow up (yes, emotionally too) . Simplistically, you think that all we're doing is standing around in a park, or that talking to a congressperson's flunky will get you what you want. Look around. We ARE starting a debate on the detriments of corporatism. Your congressperson will never know or care about you. But he knows who we are and we're going to make it hard for him to ignore us.
The legislation that I lobbied for yesterday may or may not pass, that's fine. At least I tried to make a difference. I am also not too worried about my education considering that I attend one of the best private Jesuit high schools in the country. I guarantee you I will have a job the first year I am out of college.
Well, aren't you the lucky one? What about the other kids who don't have the same opportunities you do?
One thing is very clear about this post is that you are without a doubt 15. a) #ows will make history and the bills (you did or did not lobby for) will not, b) you are in Washington lobbying for bills to be passed within an already broken system, c) who know what the bills you lobbied for were even about? You might be the enemy. Divisive language is exactly what non-progressives expect will be the undoing of this movement, just as it was with the Civil Rights and Womens Lib.
I lobbied for the reintroducing and passing of the DREAM Act, which has already made history, and for the closure of WHINSEC, which has also made history due to its controversy.
Ahh, to be 15, young, and naive enough to believe that chatting up a couple of Congreesional aides over legislation matters if that discussion runs counter to the wishes of Big Business, Big Oil, Big Whatever.........If that had worked for the 99% at any point in the last 30 years, Occupy wouldn't be necessary......By the way, you're 15, and you just happened to be "down in.....DC yesterday"? Maybe you should act a little more like a kid, and not crabbing on the web like an old man..........
"naive enough to believe that chatting up a couple of Congreesional aides over legislation matters if that discussion runs counter to the wishes of Big Business, Big Oil, Big Whatever.........If that had worked for the 99% at any point in the last 30 years, Occupy wouldn't be necessary......"
Great quote!
I was in DC for the Ignatian Family Teach In 2011 by the Ignatian Solidarity Network, and we lobbied at Congress for immigration reform. I'm not lying, it was a trip for Jesuit schools, and you can look it up. At least I'm TRYING to make a difference.
Hallelujah **
I know why don't you occupy the Hudson River. Everybody get life jackets and stop all boat traffic up the Hudson.
Yah! Go Home!
there is nothing in the 1st amendment that require permits, forbade tents or enforced hygiene
Those laws were left to the states and local authorities.
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