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We kick the ass of the ruling class

Immigrants Occupy!

Posted 2 years ago on Dec. 16, 2011, 3:01 p.m. EST by OccupyWallSt

Sunday, December 18th - 1:30pm until 5:00pm

Foley Square

Immigrants are part of the 99% and on December 18th we will march with the Occupy Wall Street movement to demand immigrant justice including putting an end to wage theft, and stopping detentions and deportations of our beloved community members. As the Occupy Wall Street movement highlights corporate profiteering we would like to shed light on those that profit off our labor, exploit workers and refuse to pay dignified wages. We also march against the corporations who support anti-immigrant legislation so they can make billions of dollars by detaining immigrants in private detention centers and deporting nearly 400,000 people per year.

As the occupy movement goes global we also recognize the destructive role that these corporations play in exploiting resources and labor in our home countries which forces millions to migrate. December 18th is the International Day of Migrants and we stand in solidarity with those world wide who are proclaiming Immigrant Rights as Human Rights.

171 Comments

171 Comments


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[-] 4 points by ushka (2) 2 years ago

"If you support illegal immigration, you will no longer have the 99% support you manifest so confidently" - this is very disappointing and hateful language. The slogan "99%" should unite ALL OF US - including immigrants, both documented and undocumented. To think that banks and corporations in the U.S and abroad have not exploited undocumented immigrants equally is plain wrong. In being in this fight for change together, we have to unite across race, class, gender, AND citizenship status. That is the only way to spark the kind of political change we are looking for. If you believe that we are all 99% - you will march for immigrant rights on Sunday. If you are for hate, Occupy Wall Street is not the place for you.

[-] 0 points by infonomics (393) 2 years ago

"If you support illegal immigration, you will no longer have the 99% support you manifest so confidently." This is hateful language?

"If you are for hate, Occupy Wall Street is not the place for you." Your rhetoric sounds very similar to the far right. You read hate in someone defending immigration laws?

Ushka, if you defend illegal immigration, you are drawing a line in the sand that will exclude many independents.

[-] 0 points by TheEqualizer (42) 2 years ago

Illegal immigration? You mean like the illegal immigration that took place during the time of the Native Indians. I am really sick to death listening to certain Americans talk about illegal immigration. Immigration has always been a problem in America, the Native Indians used to call it white people. Now white people call it Mexicans, mostly. There can be no justice in stolen lands. I am perfectly okay with illegal aliens. People's ancestors should have tried to think ahead about the ramifications to the futures of their children and grandchildren when they we're making their choices at the inception of this country. We all have to pay for the choices made by our ancestors. Tough luck. And this ain't hate, it's simply cold hard reality.

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[-] 0 points by OccupyLink (529) 2 years ago

Yes. I get sick of being called an Alien myself, just because I am not American (the name given to the Originals like the Sioux, Apache etc., hypenated American (as in Italian-American) or English. Note that the English are not Aliens as the hyphenated-Americans gained independence from them.

Whether an illegal Alien or enemy Alien, we are still Aliens. Does this make us also sub-human?

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[-] -1 points by korzib9 (80) from Newark, NJ 2 years ago

Nonsense. Next you are going to be telling me that the 99% isn't just Americans but also Mexicans and the Chinese and that borders are just meaningless lines drawn by the 1%.

The illegal immigrants are intruders in this country. They were not invited nor allowed entrance. They have no right to claim membership in our society. They have no right to expect or demand anything but a humane deportation.

Look at the polling on illegal immigration. It is a highly divisive issue and adopting it as your own means you can not claim to represent even a majority of the US population.

[-] 6 points by DarknessOfGreed (41) 2 years ago

read up on NAFTA....we imposed it...in turn mexican farmers were left poor, landless, and jobless.....meat packing companies across the texas border encourage illegal immigration for their cheap labor and lack of liability in the case of injury....so it is invited and this is a movement based on morals.....if we exclude the heartless...so be it

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 2 years ago

um last i checked i dont see illegals only at meat packing plants. is it moral for an american to lose his job or have his wages and benefits suppressed, his social safety nets, and social institutions burdened and stressed to the point of collapse by people who are not citizens??????? must i dig up the multitude of charts showing the detrimental impact of allowing non professionals to immigrate to this or any advanced country??? the only thing the illegals here have going for them as compared to europe is they are not muslim. so they assimilate 1 generation.

[-] 1 points by DarknessOfGreed (41) 2 years ago

for the most part, illegals are taking jobs that americans do not desire, as these jobs are no longer profitable for the everyday, hard working American.....you cannot make a living with many jobs in the United States...these are the most popular jobs among immigrants....instead of being angry at illegals for taking obsolete american jobs, be mad at our government/society for making these jobs useless for anyone trying to keep their head above the poverty line

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[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (27542) from Coon Rapids, MN 4 days ago

Again. Why are you tearing into a comment that is two years old? Might just as well as send a PM to the commentator as they do not appear to be on the forum any longer. Why dredge up a comment that to all practical intents and purposes is dead and buried?

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[-] -2 points by korzib9 (80) from Newark, NJ 2 years ago

You exclude the majority given the polling numbers. Keep going and you will represent no one.

[-] 1 points by DarknessOfGreed (41) 2 years ago

if i am to represent a large number of unjust people or a small number who answer to morals and ethics, who are ruled not by business but by their consciences....give me the minority...give me the latter

[-] 0 points by korzib9 (80) from Newark, NJ 2 years ago

That's fine. Just change your slogan to 'we are the 9%' because otherwise you would be lying under all rules of morals and ethics so your conscience will haunt you.

[-] 1 points by rosa999 (8) 2 years ago

They represent the interests of the 99%. If you're too ignorant to understand that, it's your problem.

[-] 1 points by DarknessOfGreed (41) 2 years ago

your absolutely right....WE ARE THE 9%!....has a nice ring to it...a numerical misrepresentation is a huge breach in ethics...its even worse than genocide and hypocrisy and corporate corruption....thank u for you wonderful and may i add...flawless insight!

[-] 0 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

It's your fault and the fault of others for being ignorant. It is up to you to decide what to do about it.

[-] 0 points by korzib9 (80) from Newark, NJ 2 years ago

Welcome to democracy. We, the 'ignorant' don't want the illegals here. You are welcome to educate us while we deport them as per our democratic right.

[-] 0 points by TheEqualizer (42) 2 years ago

I got some news for you kiddo. Unless your are 100% Native American Indian YOU are an illegal alien. So go back where YOU came from if YOU don't like it.

[-] 1 points by DarknessOfGreed (41) 2 years ago

haha...yeah but no one likes to remember that the native americans got screwed just about as bad as anyone in american history...its an unpleasant topic, one which people have a difficult time acknowledging

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 2 years ago

that is the dumbest argument ever.

[-] -2 points by 24AheadDotCom (-1) 2 years ago

So, your policy is to "correct" NAFTA... by making things worse for everyone?

Don't let OWS anywhere near policy.

[-] 1 points by TheEqualizer (42) 2 years ago

You reap what you sow. There should absolutely be consequences for screwing up the lives of others. Don't let YOU anywhere near policy is a much better statement.

[-] 1 points by DarknessOfGreed (41) 2 years ago

or we could just...CORRECT NAFTA!

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 2 years ago

the only way to fix nafta is tear it up. free trade has been a disaster for america's middle class.

[-] 1 points by DarknessOfGreed (41) 2 years ago

then let's tear nafta up...it hasnt been good for american farmers(in the dairy industry) and it has been catastrophic for the mexican peasant farmers, who throughout history have been screwed over time and time again by our government and the numerous mexican governments

[-] 2 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

The 99% is the 99% around the world.... not just in the USA. If you haven't gotten that by now, then you aren't paying attention.

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 2 years ago

um i think the protests are pretty limited to western culture last i checked latin america has it's own culture. the only non european nation i have seen protest information on is japan months ago and well japan is pretty western they are def not a developing nation.

[-] 1 points by TheEqualizer (42) 2 years ago

Marshmallows? lmao.

[-] 1 points by TheEqualizer (42) 2 years ago

You go to an Indian reservation and tell that crap to the Native Indians. Go learn some history before you spout off at the mouth.

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 2 years ago

this has nothing to do with indians. seriously???? i mean i support native americans right to semi autonomy but that is just fucking dumb man.

[-] 4 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 2 years ago

Agreed!

Exploitation of workers is one of the core issues that needs to be adressed. It´s thru exploitation capitalism operates:

Capitalism means that the means of production are privatly owned by individuals who make a profit from other people´s work (cf exploitation /profit) In other words, the value of the worker´s pay is less than the value that was added thru his/her work in the payed hours. That creates a profit for the owner of the means of production who did not create the value, but still gets payed in the form of profit. This profit is hence future investments and more profits. So, the capitalist is making money simply by just owning, not adding or creating value.

This system must be replaced with democracy so that immigrants and all other hard working people can have a decent life and be in control of their own work.

"In this possibly terminal phase of human existence, democracy and freedom are more than just ideals to be valued - they may be essential to survival" - Noam Chomsky

yours s struggleforfreedom

[-] 2 points by DarknessOfGreed (41) 2 years ago

love the chomsky quote-great writer...very eye opening

[-] 1 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 2 years ago

Indeed. Please check out my blog ( http://struggleforfreedom.blogg.no/ ), including my new article "Human Nature and Libertarian Socialism"

solidarity from Norway

struggleforfreedom

[-] 1 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

So you are hanging your entire premise on the statement (owning the means of the production other people are using and making money off of other peoples work) and you see that somehow as an evil thing. Please explain:

  1. If a farmer and his family have their farm set up and paid for with land, equipment, seed etc and he does all the work - somehow this is a good thing.

  2. If that farmer becomes injured and cannot work, it is alright if his wife does the work and - somehow that is a good thing.

  3. If she is injured and cannot work, it is alright if his children do the work and - somehow that is a good thing.

BUT 04. If no family is available to work the farm and the farmer is forced to sharecrop the land for a year - somehow that is an evil thing unless the farmer would give all the profits from the harvest to the sharecropper.

  1. If the farm was not totally paid for, and say the farmer owes 1M for the investment he has made - it is evil for the bank to charge interest on the borrowed money, it would therefore be evil for the farmer to charge the sharecropper any part of the profits of the harvest - and the worker would in effect be ripping everyone else off but - somehow that would be a good thing.

SIR - do you have any idea how simple and actually, forgive me, STUPID you and your plan would look to any MidWest Farmer. And don't even mention their flag flying and their patriotic valor or what they know is democracy if you want to get out of the midwest with your pants on and your hair just a little messed up.

You are so far out that even a farmer could smell your BS after you put on a gallon of after shave.

[-] 1 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

You have a lot of good words - but no real plan of action. You merely stir things up with no purpose and no kind of a solution in sight.

Just explain what you mean by one statement you post:

"Can have a decent life and be in control of their own work"

I do this today and I always have even when I was drawing a paycheck from my employer. Millions of Americans have a decent life and are in control of their own work - do you see this to be so successful that you want to impose that social system upon everyone else.

Your posts contain more "agenda" items than anything I have ever read. I can only assume that you believe everything that you post and think that you will be top dog if it all happens.

You sure are not going to see many smiling faces if all you want comes true.

[-] 1 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 2 years ago

Just explain what you mean by one statement you post:

"Can have a decent life and be in control of their own work"

http://struggleforfreedom.blogg.no/1320873951_the_society_we_should.html

"You have a lot of good words - but no real plan of action."

yeah, I do:

http://struggleforfreedom.blogg.no/1321101669_the_transition_phase_.html

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

There´s definitely a lot of dirty business when it comes to jewleries. I´m advocating real democracy. I think you´ll like it:

http://struggleforfreedom.blogg.no/1320873951_the_society_we_should.html

↥like↧dislikereplypermalink

[-]ronjj1 points 2 minutes ago

Hey "struggle" how is business today? I must admit that I have enjoyed your posts herein and your blogg. You are really the "Billy Mayes" of the freedom for sale business.

I have not met many business leaders that have the skill that you do to sell something that most people already have. You are really to be commended on your unique ability - like I said, you are right up there with the late "Billy Mayes" in your abilities. 1. You know how to convince your clients that they really do not have the BEST that YOU have to offer. "That white shirt is not really white when you compare it to my product" You may have a cabinet overflowing with laundry soaps(freedom) of every description, but unless you have my brand of soap (freedom) you are just doing a very poor job in the area of laundry(freedom) and are suffering because of that horrible dingy shirt your family has to wear because your do not use my product(freedom).

2. Once you convince us of this great loss in our lives and the pathetic condition(dingy) of our laundry(freedom), then you can begin the selling process. BUT look, I have a laundry product(manifesto) that you really must try if you want to be the best in the laundryroom and have truly clean white clothes(freedom). You will not see this great cleaning offer(manifesto) anywhere else and it is only available from me(Billy).

3. Then you go on with the speal about where this great cleaning product(manifesto) can be obtained or found and how important that it is that you go immediately and obtain it(freedom) before it is too late.

4. Of course you will have to do something to obtain this fine result from this product(freedom) and that will be to go and order or purchase the item(struggle) immediately. Here are the simple steps, just phone..................(How many steps are there in your manifesto??)

"Struggle" you know that I could go on and on about this. Whether you are selling "freedom" or anything at all, you have all the techniques of the finest corporation is this country. You are the CEO in charge of the entire enterprise and you actually have a monopoly on your product "freedom".

You actually are to be commended on your "Billy Mayes" approach to selling this product(freedom) to the masses. Keep up the good work and if it goes to a stock offering soon, I would be interested in knowing when, where and at what price.

[-] 1 points by fairforall (279) 2 years ago

"So, the capitalist is making money simply by just owning, not adding or creating value."

More accurately, the capitalist makes money from risk of capital and decision making....or loses money from same. You can argue that without capital to create, then no value can be created or added.

[-] 2 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 2 years ago

Risk or no risk, the capital comes from the worker´s added value. Your comment is also irrelevant if one like the idea of democracy

Capitalism is undemocratic; capitalism is in fact private tyranny: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqlTyAMVDUk

[-] 1 points by fairforall (279) 2 years ago

No, capital can already exist, be borrowed or created by the capitalist him/herself. Capital by itself does nothing - putting it to work does which takes decision making and associated risk.

[-] 2 points by groundscore (15) 2 years ago

the capital had to come from some where to begin with, explain a way to make it out of thin air?

[-] 1 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 2 years ago

then it´s work. A capitalist can, of course work in addition to being a capitalist -making money from owning reinvesting capital. And again, irrelevant if you like democracy

[-] 1 points by fairforall (279) 2 years ago

So you agree that the capitalist can then do besides just "own" and can indeed create value. I wonder why so many put little value on decision making and respective risk........likely, they have done little in their lifetime.

[-] 1 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 2 years ago

of course capitalists can work and create value in addition to being a capitalist (making money by owning and reinvesting profit). It´s the second part I´m criticizing. Working and crating/adding value is good.

struggleforfreedom

[-] 1 points by fairforall (279) 2 years ago

Honestly, I don't know of or can't imagine any capitalist who doesn't "work". Can you give me some examples?

[-] 1 points by groundscore (15) 2 years ago

most capitalists, are so by investing in stock, most of them dont choose their own investments they hire some one to do so

[-] 1 points by AndyJ0hn (129) 2 years ago

Are business owners capitalists? Are Mum and Dad investors Capitalists?

[-] 1 points by groundscore (15) 2 years ago

he ased for an example, and yes any invester is a for of capitalist, i never said business owners weren't capitalists, just pointing out they arent the only type, and myself i am not against all forms of capitalists, just the ones that are having very negitive impacts on the people here and else where

[-] 2 points by AndyJ0hn (129) 2 years ago

thanks for the clarification, I am against profiting by making bets on stocks/options/futures/debt going up and down...this is a casino! derivatives are a catastrophe.

[-] 1 points by groundscore (15) 2 years ago

a dude i know named Rico, u dont have to make any of the choices at all to be a capitalist, u need to read more, and diversify what u read. if your choosing stuff just to try to support ur pre-extent opinion, that is not learning thats self brainwashing, and if nothing else very one sided

[-] 1 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 2 years ago

It´s irrelevant how many capitalist who - in addition to making money from just owning - also does honest work. It is owning the means of the production other people are using and profitting on their work that Im criticizing. Are you not reading before responding..?

[-] 1 points by fairforall (279) 2 years ago

I'm reading you. So how does a capitalist decide how to use capital for without doing any "work".....do you believe capital automatically manages itself?

[-] 1 points by groundscore (15) 2 years ago

hiring someone

[-] 0 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 2 years ago

"I'm reading you." it does not seem like it. the capitalist makes money by owning

[-] 1 points by fairforall (279) 2 years ago

but he doesn't make money just by owning - he makes (or loses) money by putting it to use which involves at a minimum decision making and risk. Again, give me some examples of a capitalist who uses capital without doing any "work"?

[-] 0 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 2 years ago

Now we´re back to the beginning. Risk or no risk, the capital comes from the worker´s added value. I´m not saying that the capitalist does absolutley nothing except profitting on other people´s work, I´m criticizing the phenomenon of the capitalist profitting on other people´s work. Did you get it now..?

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

I got what you are saying right away..... people "owning" other people and making money from the work that those other people do.

[-] 1 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 2 years ago

jupp. People arn´t owned (like under slavery), but rented, and there´s not a lot of difference: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDHBvQRyOr0

We need a libertarian socialist society so that people arnt treated like machines, but can be in control of their own work. This type of society is also best suited human nature

yours s struggleforfreedom

[-] 1 points by AndyJ0hn (129) 2 years ago

your advocating communism and it already failed on more than one occasion,

[-] 1 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 2 years ago

Which "communism" are you referring to, Libertarian Communism/Anarcho-Communism or Leninism/Stalinism/Maoism?

No, I´m advocating Anarcho-Syndicalism

[-] 1 points by AndyJ0hn (129) 2 years ago

it takes capital to start the business in the first place, in our case my business partner and I worked for 5 years, 18 hours a day, with a lot of stress each day, now we employee 3 staff, we have all the risk, the employee is guaranteed a salary and we are not.

[-] 1 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 2 years ago

Did you not read the debate above? Then it´s work. And again, irrelevant if one like democracy:

http://struggleforfreedom.blogg.no/1320873951_the_society_we_should.html

[-] 1 points by fairforall (279) 2 years ago

Actually, you said he "makes money just by owning" - I can C&P if for you if needed.

We've already covered where the capital can come from. The worker who "works" for the capitalist doesn't have a chance of creating value if the capitalist doesn't provide the capital. To provide capital takes decision making and risk in addition to "owning" it. I think you've agreed with that and therefore shown your initial statement to be inaccurate.

[-] 1 points by fairforall (279) 2 years ago

If a "worker" saves part of his pay from the capitalist, would you consider that to be "profit"? If he uses it to buy a car (capital) so he can get a higher paying (more profitable) job across town, would you deny him this right?

If the "san" people halfway down on your blog page are an indication of what happens if we deny the capitalist and is your idea of "democracy", then I'll have to pass.......although the idea of wearing loin clothes and tracking your food sounds like a fun vacation.

[-] 1 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 2 years ago

jeez. It is owning the means of the production other people are using and making money off of other people´s work that Im criticizing. In that situation he´s making money just by owning. And again, the other things you mention si irrelevant if one likes democracy. So how do you feel about democracy?

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

Let's take a Native American jewelry maker as an example. Very few of those jewelers mine their own silver, roll the silver, ship the silver, or stock the silver in a warehouse, or resell it in a retail establishment, extend credit for that purchase through credit card, 90 dsac, of in-store. According to your definition the only ones who are working in a true democracy as the miners, the rollers, and the jeweler.

Good luck on putting everyone to work in YOUR democracy. Your system would be one of workers and their slaves. Quite a step back in history that you are advocating.

[-] 1 points by groundscore (15) 2 years ago

no every person you named works in their description, exept the owners of the credit card company

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

OK, we get rid of the credit card company. Now is everyone "pure" in what they are doing??

  1. The seller now has to assume all the risk of the sale (counterfit hundred dollar bills, selling on time hoping that he can keep the item safely locked up until it is paid off and not stolen or destroyed by fire etc).
  2. With all this risk involved, maybe the seller should decide to take that credit card payment, sell the risk to the card company and get his cash the same day not having to deal with the risk of loss, fire, etc. buying insurance to cover such risks etc. Either way, the guy making that jewelry chooses to sell the risk to someone else along with not being liable if the buyer does not pay the credit card bill.
  3. Your intent is to portray the credit card company as an evil entity because they in effect do not come into contact with the item being sold. If that is your only point - go for it. As a business man, I want the freedom to make the decision regarding assumption of risk, storage, etc vs the right to sell all of that to another entity so that I can get about my business.

The weaver will do the same thing - if production is the weaver's goal, flying to NYC to try to sell the product may be quite out of the question if feeding the sheep for a week is the other side of the same coin.

The majority of these decisions are common sense decisions and are not made on the basis of some morals imposed by man.

[-] 1 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 2 years ago

There´s definitely a lot of dirty business when it comes to jewleries. I´m advocating real democracy. I think you´ll like it:

http://struggleforfreedom.blogg.no/1320873951_the_society_we_should.html

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

Hey "struggle" how is business today? I must admit that I have enjoyed your posts herein and your blogg. You are really the "Billy Mayes" of the freedom for sale business.

I have not met many business leaders that have the skill that you do to sell something that most people already have. You are really to be commended on your unique ability - like I said, you are right up there with the late "Billy Mayes" in your abilities.

  1. You know how to convince your clients that they really do not have the BEST that YOU have to offer. "That white shirt is not really white when you compare it to my product" You may have a cabinet overflowing with laundry soaps(freedom) of every description, but unless you have my brand of soap (freedom) you are just doing a very poor job in the area of laundry(freedom) and are suffering because of that horrible dingy shirt your family has to wear because your do not use my product(freedom).

  2. Once you convince us of this great loss in our lives and the pathetic condition(dingy) of our laundry(freedom), then you can begin the selling process. BUT look, I have a laundry product(manifesto) that you really must try if you want to be the best in the laundryroom and have truly clean white clothes(freedom). You will not see this great cleaning offer(manifesto) anywhere else and it is only available from me(Billy).

  3. Then you go on with the speal about where this great cleaning product(manifesto) can be obtained or found and how important that it is that you go immediately and obtain it(freedom) before it is too late.

  4. Of course you will have to do something to obtain this fine result from this product(freedom) and that will be to go and order or purchase the item(struggle) immediately. Here are the simple steps, just phone..................(How many steps are there in your manifesto??)

"Struggle" you know that I could go on and on about this. Whether you are selling "freedom" or anything at all, you have all the techniques of the finest corporation is this country. You are the CEO in charge of the entire enterprise and you actually have a monopoly on your product "freedom".

You actually are to be commended on your "Billy Mayes" approach to selling this product(freedom) to the masses. Keep up the good work and if it goes to a stock offering soon, I would be interested in knowing when, where and at what price.

[-] -1 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

You need to get a job manufacturing something other than BS. That product has value for several reasons:

  1. General Mills does not have their workers making cereal out in the open air. That plant add a certain value.

  2. Their workers do not take the products to the wholesaler in their personal vehicle after work every day. Transportation adds some value.

  3. That cereal does not come in 1,000 bushel bags to the grocery. It is boxed for sale. That box adds some value.

  4. The workers (as you define them) do not stamp the city on each box where they want it sent. Distributors do that and that adds some value.

  5. Do you buy grey cardboard boxes of cereal at your supermarket?? Some printing company and some box maker adds some value to the product that you pick-up.

06 Is your work so great that it sells by itself. Or does some ad agency add a little value to the product by promoting sales of the product.

  1. Do you just pick up the cereal in the grocer and drop $2.14 in a can somewhere to pay for it. Perhaps the grocery clerk adds a little value too.

  2. You may enjoy shopping in the complete darkness of a grocery, I don't and I appreciate the fact that the lights in the grocery store provide a little value to the product too.

You may be struggling but I do not think your goal is "freedom" . You need to take your struggle into the REAL world and see how all of us workers add to the value of what you see as the great ripoff of the "worker"

[-] 1 points by groundscore (15) 2 years ago

the only thing u said that is applicable to what they said is: General Mills does not have their workers making cereal out in the open air. That plant add a certain value.

they arent saying the rest doesnt add value

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 2 years ago

The point is this:

If you take a lump of clay and make a pot, you as the potter add value to the item. You can sell that pot for whatever you want and keep all the profit for your labors. You do have other choices:

  1. You can keep the pot on your mantel.
  2. You can accidently break the pot and the value is gone.
  3. You can sell your value added as a potter along with the value of the clay, etc.
  4. You can decide that you could make more profit for yourself if you just let someone else sell you the clay, you add your value to the clay and then sell your value added to someone else (think paycheck-what you had to pay for the clay etc). Now realize that the value of that pot has not really been realized unless the buyer puts it on his mantel and is happy. But let's say you sell him 50 pots and he only wants to keep one - it is stupid to assume that now you go out and get your money back=to amount you paid the potter so that you can keep the one pot on your mantel.
  5. As the new owner, you can add value to the pot yourself by holding the pots until the tourist season rolls around, setting up a stand and selling the items. It is pointless to assume that you would sell them for the value added by the potter along - just simply pointless.

We have to realize the fact that in some cases there might more value added to that pot by someone along the line than there was added by the potter themselves.

If you have any question about this - ask why a handmade Navajo rug is sold for $500.00 in Window Rock, AZ, $750.00 in Scottsdale,AZ and say $1,250 in New York City. It all has to do with value added along the way. It is not taking advantage of the weaver who chooses to take their value out by selling the rug in Window Rock instead of adding more value by driving to Scottsdale or adding even more by flying to NYC.

[-] 1 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 2 years ago

Read the debate between me and "fairforall" above.

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[-] 3 points by TheMentalist (2) 2 years ago

Most people do not know how broken immigration laws are and they quickly jump the bandwagon with those demonizing fellow "Americans" who just can not get the right paperwork due to broken laws.

To make it brief, as of now there is a permanent and blanket bar on people adjusting their status if they are here out of status even for a day. One may have come legally but became out of status, sometimes due to bureacracy, is permanently and automatically barred forever from adjusting status, no matter what. Therefore, so called "follow the rules", even if any rule to adjust status exists, there is a "bar" to following that rule if one is out of status. One glove fits all does not work. There are educated people out there who cant adjust status-period; not all immigrants are uneducated, ruthless type.

Also, people complaining about them being "alien" in the sense of not integrating or not speaking the language etc. is also a problem with so called "legal" immigrants and actually with "Americans" (naturalized or otherwise). Therefore, people are being xenophobic when they simply put the blame on undocs, when they actually have a problem with anything foreigners. It is long due to fix broken laws to allow for well-intended, educated people to get on path to "follow the rules." There are so many educated and "All-American" type people around you who are "undocs." Yeah, its that bad !

Also, those bashing immigrants, and I am assuming they are "happened to be Americans;" have their own parents and grandparents came on boats without the permission of Red Indians or relatively recently, they simply jumped the boat to Ellis Island without "permission or visas" nor following any "rules." Once here, they were automatically given path to citizenship-yep those good old days....

The corrupt politicans and leaders know this all that the laws as exist are unfair and/or broken and do not work. They are not doing anything because, as this whole OWS movement is up against; they exploit labor for corportaions and business profits on people blood. Unfortunately, people in America buys into their crap and semantic speeches that they are doing it for "AMericans" While behind the scene, they are harvesting their bottomline. More sadly though; people are rallying behind those politicians without even knowing that the politicians have nothing but their personal gains out of all this.

Remember, not all immigrants are Mexicans nor Latinos nor laborers nor uneducated, alien people that "you" may despise.

(The above is for educational purposes only based on facts not opinions, not a fodder for ceaseless arguments.)

[-] 0 points by korzib9 (80) from Newark, NJ 2 years ago

They are not fellow Americans. It is that simple. A hundred years the US welcomed any and all comers. Now the laws have changed. Those here illegally are unwelcome and uninvited. You can't join a society when your first act is to break its laws.

btw, I am a legal immigrant. Coming to America is a privilege, not a right and not something to be achieved through breaking the law.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

Being here "legally" and being blocked from adjusting status to say continue going to school here is being unlawful and makes one unwelcome and uninvited?

Did you know that most undocumented people who are here are here "illegally" because of their status being changed and them not being able to fix that? Most undocumented people who are here ARE NOT the ones who cross the borders from Mexico, as so many uninformed people think.

You have your head screwed on wrongly.

[-] 1 points by Lion862 (9) from San Antonio, TX 2 years ago

30 MILLION and counting ILLEGAL ALIENS are from MEXICO ! It is YOU who have your head on wrong.

[-] 0 points by korzib9 (80) from Newark, NJ 2 years ago

The bureaucratic reason why they are here is not relevant. What is relevant is that they are here illegally and have no legal standing to remain here.

Why should I care if they are from Mexico or Canada or Ireland? They simply don't belong here.

[-] 1 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 2 years ago

Are they really unwelcomed and unwanted? That seems like a simplistic statement. If that were true, they would be escorted out in an instant. The truth is, they are needed and that's why they can find jobs and stay for long periods of time.

[-] 0 points by korzib9 (80) from Newark, NJ 2 years ago

They are certainly uninvited. They are certainly unwelcome and unwanted by the majority of the US population according to every poll. That some people want to employ them so they can pay them lower wages than they would to legal residents is not a valid argument for letting them stay.

[-] 0 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 2 years ago

If they all suddenly left, I'm certain those who don't want them now would suddenly change their minds. US is built with economic prisons; badly paid people work so that US citizens can live with a higher standard. Some of these people are illegal immigrants inside US, others are in Asia making Nike shoes and assembling computers for Americans.

[-] 2 points by Lion862 (9) from San Antonio, TX 2 years ago

The 1% IS the reason there is Illegal Immigration. THEY exploit cheap labor and force the Supreme Courts to shoot down EVERY single law that the states VOTE on (And PASS) to protect their resources that get drained by ILLEGAL immigration. The majority of ILLEGAL Aliens do NOT pay taxes, they work for cash under the table and send the majority of their money back to Mexico. FACT: Mexico's #2 source of cash flow into the country behind oil is the cash that ILLEGAL ALIENS send back home. (Look it up) They do NOT contribute their earnings back into our economy. So they come here ILLEGALLY (another Constitutional law ignored) for a better job because their own government is the most corrupt government on the planet is NOT our problem. Right now AMERICANS are fighting for our very own future and that of our LEGALLY affected children. ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION is a completely separate issue right now and will divide the whole movement. We do NOT need this right now. Our resources and support are waning as it is. "The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few....or the one"

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

" They do NOT contribute their earnings back into our economy."

That is a complete lie. They have to live, so they do spend money here. And Mexico's government is far from being the most corrupt government on the planet. The U.S. government is very corrupt itself. It just hides a lot of what it does.

Don't be blinded and fooled.

[-] 1 points by Lion862 (9) from San Antonio, TX 2 years ago

I disagree. I lived for 27 years in Southern California. I witnessed it with my own eyes. They only bought products from MEXICAN owned business. Why don't all of the "Illegal Aliens" AND their supporters go "Occupy Mexico"? Protest their government for change to make "Mexico" a better place so they won't have to come here? Why? Because you would all be mowed down in the streets by the Federalies. This is all about NAFTA, MECHA, La RAZA, & AZTLAN. I know more than you think.

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[-] 0 points by DependentClass (19) 2 years ago

The 1%? Hilarious. The left is full of bed wetters that want an open border, an open floodgate of imported poverty. Talk about cleaning this up and watch how many poverty pimp hispanic advocates and the other liberal trash smear you as a racist. They defend it. Of course, then after supporting mass immigration of poverty, liberals pivot and then bitch about poverty as though they aren't connected, but that's another story.

[-] 2 points by kickthemout (83) 2 years ago

Remember, not all immigrants are Mexicans nor Latinos nor laborers nor uneducated, alien people that "you" may despise.

You mean Latin Americans? Because the Latinos are the following: The Italians, French, Portuguese, Spaniards and Romanians. Latino is a Language and a Culture, the language and Culture originating from Italy and not from Spain. Spanish-speaking people of the "Americas" come with different racial make ups and they have to use that if they want to identify themselves and not use the term "Latino". Latino is not a race and Latin American doesn't mean "Latino". If these people want to use Latin American to refer to their geographical location of origin then it's another story but these people have nothing to do with the Latin, except that the Spanish language comes from the Latin language of Roman Italy imposed by the Romans upon the Spaniards when the Romans ( ancient Italians) colonized the Iberian territories and remained there for over 700 years. http://www.mexica-movement.org http://www.real-latins.org

[-] 2 points by Unger (22) 2 years ago

The immigrants, both legal and illegal, are not the bad guys. Most of them are decent, hardworking people, with the initiative to escape terrible conditions in their homelands.

The bad guys are the 1% who own or operate the big corporations that are bringing in people from poor countries to serve as near slaves on factory farms, in meat packing plants, poultry processing plants, hotels, etc. The principal victims are poor Americans, many of them Blacks and Hispanics, who would be working at those jobs. Even when they do get such jobs, they have to accept the miserable working conditions and pay that are acceptable to those coming from backward countries.

We need to shut down immigration to the point where it is not an economic factor (say 100k/year), and impose tariffs on imports from countries that grossly underpay workers or cut costs by destructive environmental practices. We should end all guest worker programs, and clamp down on illegal immigration. One powerful tool for dealing with illegal immigration is to require employers to stop hiring illegals by requiring them to use E-verify. If we do these things, then pay rates here for all jobs will increase, and working conditions will be improved so as to attract American workers. Manufacturing here will be revived, and the 99% will be a lot better off, including those at the bottom of the pay scale.

We can't help the poor people in other countries by admitting them to the US, because there are billions of them. We can best help them by ending such treaties as NAFTA, by not bolstering governments of countries were the populations are oppressed, and by increasing foreign aid carefully targeted to improve the lives of the 99%.

More about this at: http://www1.cs.columbia.edu/~unger/articles/immigrationGoodFolks.html

[-] 2 points by mattgosselin (2) 2 years ago

I really don't think just opening the borders is enough. We have to transport refugees from the nations we have destroyed (at least over the last hundred years) to this country. Give them a chance at a life we denied them. I'm going to suggest transporting as many immigrants in as the number of military personnel we transport out. It seems fair.

I know the arguments, "U cant be seereoos, ill eagle mygrashoon make up half my populashoon, they suck my well fair and make my tax Big. Bad people com in an kill all us. tak job.

I understand these concerns. Yet we no longer have the time or resources. We must level the playing field today by working with the rest of the planet. Stop being a chicken shit, and take responsibility for letting our government get this far out of control.

I know the argument for this also, "my car cost $8000. I got bad fondasshoon on hoos. i vote good.

Yeah. Suck it up for fucking up. Learn another language, as should every child, and KEEP IN THE VOTE!!!

[-] 1 points by Crackpot (9) 1 week ago

Americans might be offended when someone says the USA is a country of immigrants. What is the point of pretending? Apparently a lot of people prefer to believe this than think about it.

Immigrants represent about 15% of the total US population. On the other hand immigrants represent 83% of the population of United Arab Emirates. I haven’t seen reports of UAE claim to be a nation of immigrants. The UAE would collapse without immigrants. The US would not.

Country with most immigrants

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_foreign-born_population

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 2 years ago

yeah ummmm no rational person wants to allow illegal immigration. it is past time to take care of this more liberals being tooo fucking pc it is killing us. illegal immigrants are big businesses best friend don't be fucking dumb. i cant even begin to describe how dumb this is. the illegals need to go home . period they are not the 99% they are a fucking drain let them drain their own countrys. just because we are liberal doesnt mean we have to be dumb.

[-] 1 points by Lion862 (9) from San Antonio, TX 2 years ago
[-] 1 points by Brandon37 (372) 2 years ago

This is just an attempt to exploit people who are unclear of the situation to grow numbers. It's also why Obama won't secure the border.

[-] 1 points by WEPartyMentor (20) 2 years ago

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A Simple Shift in Consciousness From I to WE

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[-] 1 points by JeannyFrigide (11) 2 years ago

Illegal immigrants are exploited by corporations in the United States just the same as everybody else, except it is worse consequences for them. As an example, in the documentary film, "Food, Inc", there is footage of illegal immigrants being rounded up and deported from the United States, who are here as employees of Smithfield. ( pork producer in NC for those who don't recognize the name). As it turns out, Smithfield has determined that they can run the processing plant at a normal rate, and lose no money, if they are shorthanded by no more than 11 workers. So the INS deports no more than 11 of Smithfield's illegal workers every day. These illegal aliens are the people putting the Christmas ham on American tables! Why isn't Smithfield in legal trouble for routinely employing illegals, if it is illegal for them to work here? Why isn't the INS in legal trouble allowing illegals to stay here and work when INS is aware of their employment with Smithfield? Something is corrupt here. I personally am vegan, and have a billion other issues with Smithfield.
But before I stop, I also want to point out that the illegals are here working for American corporations because the corporations actively solicit them to come here and work! Corporations like Smithfield actively advertise in Mexico for people to come here and work, and then Smithfield allows 11 of them to be deported back to Mexico per day.

Illegal immigrants ARE part of the 99%. I think the pigs at Smithfield should also be included, as millions of them live their lives not as living and feeling creatures but simply as sausage machines. They, too, are exploited by giant corporations but have no voice... the silent per cent.

[-] 1 points by kickthemout (83) 2 years ago

[-] groundscore 3 points 2 days ago

most of there blood was here way before u, so if u don't like illegal Immigrants, go back to Europe u were the invader first

First of all you male no sense. Then if you are not a member of the original "Native Americans" who live within the borders of today U.S. of America you have no right to even mention Europeans. As far the native Americans who live within the confine of the USA territory,contiguous States, we are in good terms with them and they are not complaining. Actually, they don't want any other "Indian" from other places of the "Americas" to be allowed to come here.This is exactly what they have stated numerous times. Note that before the Europeans arrived here native American tribes were fighting,repelling, and killing members of other tribes. So don't tell me that there is a consensus here. Other tribes from what is known as Mexico now (was called Mexico by the Spaniards, BTW) have no business interfering in this area as it was never theirs. Actually, most of what is now the USA was sparsely populated by nomadic Red Skin people who kept moving from one place to another. It's not that they had Cities,Counties with roads,buildings,electricity,police,fire departments and a structured society. None of all this. You come up now and say :" Go back to Europe". Hey pal...this was a territory with no borders, open to anyone. Well, Whites came and brought civilization and much more. This is why you are here and this is why millions of your people and all the other invaders,want to only be here and only where Whites live and no place else. I'm sure that if this territory was today in the same condition as it was 500 years ago you wouldn't want to be here so badly. So, thank God that Whites allowed you to be here, if you're here and keep quiet because this great society, everything that you like in here,all the beautiful things around, is nothing but the product of of the White-European mind and body. You do not deserve to share it. Sorry,but this is our Revolution not yours. Whites are now treated as third class citizens because our politicians pander to people like you. It's time to stop so that Whites can have a future.

[-] 1 points by kickthemout (83) 2 years ago

[-] SwissMiss (Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI) 1 points 3 hours ago

FYI.... you should put what korzib9 says in quotes, because not doing so makes it look like you're the one saying all those racist, white supremacist, ridiculous things.

Hi, yes it came out this way even though I copied and pasted korzib9 comment. However, both of us are not far off in explaining that we're fed up of the declining standard in our society brought about by the massive non-White invasion. Thanks.

[-] 1 points by rioarriba (1) 2 years ago

Became a legal immigrant means the society has accepted that needs them (gets money and production from them) Your US society has accepted it? I'm from Argentina and even here the xenophobia is still between us, pay attention to this stuff because this is a great problem to the whole world I support your OWS movement, congratulations!!!

[-] 1 points by Lion862 (9) from San Antonio, TX 2 years ago

Here is EXACTLY what this is. It is "Illegal Immigration" activists trying to piggyback their cause onto the Occupy Wall St. Movement. I repeat...IF you have LEGALLY immigrated to the US you have rights. They are The Constitution & The Bill of Rights PERIOD! I am unaware of any other "Rights" for "Immigrants". I was born here, so do "I" not have access to those "Immigrant Rights" you Rallied for on Saturday? LEGAL Immigrants are AMERICANS. I do not buy into your rhetoric that you have been trying to convince me AND the AMERICAN public of for over 20 years. To me you are no different than Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton by doing this right now. They tried to attach themselves to this movement from its inception ONLY to benefit the causes they serve. THEMSELVES!! YOU "ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION ACTIVISTS" are not fooling me.

[-] 1 points by Lion862 (9) from San Antonio, TX 2 years ago

I just had a BRILLIANT Idea !!! "OCCUPY MEXICO" !! Since things are so bad down there and their own government is as corrupt as it gets why don't the people of Mexico rise up in protest to make their homeland a better place??? Like every other impoverished country is doing. I will NOT be intimidated and accused of being racist by latino groups such as La Raza & Aztlan. I will NOT use my resources to support a duality of these two TOTALLY separate issues. (Illegal Immigration Rights -vs- AMERICAN Rights.) This is going to do nothing but divide the OWS Movement. It's already heating up.... Do we REALLY want to go here?

[-] 1 points by elevenfoxtrot (5) 2 years ago

BTW- please bring prove you're a US Citizen with you - vans will be available to tranport you to a nice place with food and shelter should you be an illegal alien. See you there.

[-] 1 points by kickthemout (83) 2 years ago

[-] korzib9 (Newark, NJ) -1 points 1 day ago

Nonsense. Next you are going to be telling me that the 99% isn't just Americans but also Mexicans and the Chinese and that borders are just meaningless lines drawn by the 1%.

The illegal immigrants are intruders in this country. They were not invited nor allowed entrance. They have no right to claim membership in our society. They have no right to expect or demand anything but a humane deportation.

Whether they're illegal or legal makes no difference. It's time to stop non-White, non-Europeans from entering this Country. These people are invading all of the White Nations and destroying our race/ethnic beauty, our culture and our way of life. I don't want these ugly people here. They have no natural and cultural rights to live with us. http://www.natvan.com/free-speech/fs955c.html http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/01/the...white.../7208/

[-] 1 points by kickthemout (83) 2 years ago

[-] korzib9 (Newark, NJ) 2 points 13 hours ago

They are not fellow Americans. It is that simple. A hundred years the US welcomed any and all comers. Now the laws have changed. Those here illegally are unwelcome and uninvited. You can't join a society when your first act is to break its laws.

btw, I am a legal immigrant. Coming to America is a privilege, not a right and not something to be achieved through breaking the law.

Not totally correct. Only Europeans were allowed to come and settle here. The was no immigration for non-Europeans unless they wanted to come as "slaves"!!! It should have remained the way : open only to Europeans and nobody else. Our founding fathers never would have allowed non-Europeans here. What's happening today is not right. It's placing strange people of very different racial,cultural and religious background all together, one hating the other and all hating WHITES. This is against natural laws and a self-genocide for Whites who are becoming third class citizens in the Country which they built over the past 500 years. It's time to close the borders.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

FYI.... you should put what korzib9 says in quotes, because not doing so makes it look like you're the one saying all those racist, white supremacist, ridiculous things.

[-] 1 points by legalassistant (164) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Newark, NJ.

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[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 2 years ago

I've had more kindness and help from illegals than I've gotten from my own politicians.

[-] 1 points by occupyundergrad (0) 2 years ago

The ignorant, hateful and xenophobic comments posted here are deeply troubling, but I think they demonstrate why action like this is so important! it's time we realize how the corrupt bankers on wall street and this entire nation's economy, for that matter, all rely on the exploitation of immigrants, documented or not. i'll be there on D18!

[-] 1 points by Farleymowat (415) 2 years ago

Yes it is disturbing people advocate lawlessness by not enforcing border laws.

[-] 1 points by slohand (3) 2 years ago

I agree

[-] 1 points by JosephCouture (45) 2 years ago

How can anyone truly be surprised by snatch and grab indefinite detention? I couldn’t go to karaoke last night without them searching my bag. Worried? You should be.

Read: “Closer By the Minute” at www.josephcouture.com

[-] 1 points by bill1102inf2 (357) 2 years ago

If I owned a club of any sort I wouldn't even allow you to come inside with a 'bag' ya freaking clown.

[-] 1 points by fairforall (279) 2 years ago

Obama's ICE reports record number of deportations of illegal immigrants

By Jordy Yager - 10/18/11 07:08 PM ET

The U.S. deported more people — nearly 400,000 — who were in the country illegally in fiscal 2011 than ever before, according to the latest numbers released Tuesday by the Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) bureau.

President Obama’s administration touted the startling figures as evidence of its progress in stopping illegal immigration, a record that could help the president win back independent voters who abandoned Democrats in the 2010 midterm elections.

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[-] 0 points by kickthemout (83) 2 years ago

I do not support the position of some OWS members on third world "Immigrants" . Most of these people are invaders and not immigrants at all. Actually, we have too many of them here in the USA. They have never integrated within our language,culture and civilization, keep to themselves segregated amongst the people of their own language and culture and never deal with White Americans. Moreover, they downgrade our European-based values and way of life and are changing the look of this country in a negative way which is unrecognizable from the way it looked just 40-50 years ago. It's time to close the borders permanently to these new comers who have nothing in common with us. White Americans never should have changed immigration laws allowing non-Whites,third-world people and now even Muslims to enter our advanced society. OWS-Global Revolution should not self-destruct by allowing millions of people who hate us to enter or remain with us here.This has nothing to do with civil right. Nobody has a right to immigrate here. Why they don't make demand to immigrate to China, or any other Asian Nation, the Middle East, Africa,Mexico, Ecuador, Venezuela,any of those places? Why these people only want to immigrate into White Nations? Sorry, this civilization is the fruit of our European mind. We've been too generous already and it's time to close the borders before this country will look like a jungle! http://www.americanpatrol.com http://www.real-latins.org http://www.vdare.com

[-] 3 points by groundscore (15) 2 years ago

most of there blood was here way before u, so if u don't like illegal Immigrants, go back to Europe u were the invader first

[-] 0 points by jomojo (562) 2 years ago

Immigrants rights are being ignored for political and financial gain. It's about time that we listen and learn. The need for solidarity is great, but the main thing we need is understanding that we are all humans and able to be proud of the different cultures within the 99%. Wave your flags!

[-] 0 points by avery724 (60) 2 years ago

What immigrants rights are being ignored? OR , are you talking about ILLEGAL immigrants?

[-] 1 points by jomojo (562) 2 years ago

Human rights. I'm not a criminal lawyer.

[-] 0 points by avery724 (60) 2 years ago

If you come to this country , intending never to go back to your country of origin, you're here illegally and should be deported. You have no right to break the laws of the USA.

[-] 2 points by jomojo (562) 2 years ago

If you've ever broken a law let us know.

[-] 0 points by avery724 (60) 2 years ago

I've gotten a speeding ticket.

[-] 0 points by naepius (15) 2 years ago

The division of the 1% and the 99% is in terms of reported wealth. Illegal immigrants' wealth is not part of that statistic, so the roots of the 99% slogan are in direct opposition to including illegal immigrants as part of the 99%.

You need to call for an open border policy where everyone who wishes to come to the U.S. is given contingent legal rights to work here the moment they cross the border before you call for an end to deportation.

Deporting illegal immigrants is one of the few responsibilities given the Federal Government. That OWS is supporting an action calling for the government to stop doing it's job prior to seeking immigration reform to redefine that job is a major flip-flop. You cannot call for accountability and repercussions for government agents failing to do their job to protect our rights while also calling upon them to stop performing the duties assigned to them in the Constitution.

This is going to have a drastic effect on the support for the OWS movement. I am not attempting to discount the merit that this action has relevant to the global movement that OWS is justified to stand in solidarity with.

The issue here is that OWS is playing both sides of the fence - something many people, myself included, are going to be very disturbed about continuing to support. We are trying to find effective ways of ridding Congress and the White House of politicians who partake in such activities, and now OWS has chosen to perpetuate the political status quo that so many are wanting to organize to fight against.

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[-] 0 points by dawnofthededad (1) 2 years ago

So ICE can round you up all at once. Be sure to be there.

[-] 0 points by Binh (83) 2 years ago

Why march to Liberty Park when we'll be at Canal and 6th ave?

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[-] -1 points by FreedomIn2012 (-36) from Hempstead, NY 2 years ago

Just remember there is a constant, unrelenting stream on illegals crossing our borders. Most are illiterate and disease ridden. They leave mountains of garbage on their journey. The leaders rape most women who cross...

[-] 2 points by groundscore (15) 2 years ago

your need to go use you abillity to read and one read up on how these people are treated, sometimes when they entered the country legitimately. next read up on how our laws have damaged these peoples home countries, next read on how many occupy movements they are world wide, this is a moral movement trying to bring justice world wide, nut just to the few, you will be the next 1% the way you think, thats if we can get enough people's heads out of their rears to listen to decent common since based in love, the minorities are definitively 99% as is most of the world, this is a world wide movement with no time for racists or any other type of bigot

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

Wow... where in the hell did you dig that shit up from????

[-] -2 points by FreedomIn2012 (-36) from Hempstead, NY 2 years ago

And then we pay billions taking care of them!!

[-] -1 points by FreedomIn2012 (-36) from Hempstead, NY 2 years ago

Give up your college spot for an illegal and offer to pay for them as someone will have to do so. Then I will believe your are sincere. Better yet, invite them into your home (if you have one or ask mommy if it is okay).

[-] -1 points by Farleymowat (415) 2 years ago

Illegals go home. Come back through the front gate. You are welcome here! We love you! You just need come through the front gate!

[-] -1 points by richardweeks (-7) 2 years ago

What does this OWS article mean when it refers to "immigrants?"

Does it mean illegal immigrants?

Come on, OWS, come clean. Do you think all immigrants are illegal?

Do you think there is no distinction between legal and illegal immigrants?

Where do you stand?

[-] -1 points by kickthemout (83) 2 years ago

Go to the politicians in your Countries of origin, third world countries, and demand your civil rights. Not here in the USA. This is our revolution,this is White Revolution and not yours. Whites are those suffering the lack of opportunities. housing, and all other freebies that the government gives away to you,the so-called minorities. Every place I go I see Blacks, Spanics, and other third world people being employed in Doctor's office, Lawyer's office, in Drug Stores,Retail stores, everywhere. Whites have become third class citizens in the Country and civilization that they built. Cannot go on. I'm glad that,finally, immigration, is the number one issue with the economy on the agenda of our politicians. This OWS-Global Revolution should be our exclusive movement.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

Get your racist head out of your ass, please. I wish we could kick people like you out.

[-] -1 points by 24AheadDotCom (-1) 2 years ago

What's hilarious about this is that OWS is now on the side of profiteers who aren't just in the 1%, they're in the 0.01%. The top elites of the US strongly support mass immig.: the Rockefellers, Bloomberg, Koch, etc. etc.

OWS is on the side of the USChamberOfCommerce, not on the side of those negatively impacted by mass immig. (many of them black).

But, wait, there's more. OWS is on the side of banks and the Fed:

http://24ahead.com/s/immigration-banks

Doh.

[-] -1 points by slohand (3) 2 years ago

This has nothing to do with illegal immigration and the U S A is a sovereign nation. Leave the protesting to USA residents . They will keep the argument focused.

[-] -1 points by korzib9 (80) from Newark, NJ 2 years ago

This is a very left wing position you are taking in not respecting the difference between legal and illegal immigrants. Sorry to break it to you, but you claim to represent the 99% but you really represent just the extreme left. This is why you will be pushed out and ignored.

[-] 3 points by llf (144) 2 years ago

Life is complicated. Borders are made by people and could be managed better or worse to crete more or less problems. We have done a horrible job at managing our borders and have created a whole class of undocumented immigrants. Xenophobia and fear of "the other" have gotten the best of many...the bosses laugh as the workers fight for the crubms and play the "i really belong here and you don't" game...It is called America for a reason. Look it up...just saying...I am an American and I think, in the end, you and your position will be the one pushed out and ignored. It is just a matter of time, numbers, history, and demography. Either learn to live with it or risk letting your fears make you feel like you are getting eaten by it...

[-] -1 points by korzib9 (80) from Newark, NJ 2 years ago

I am an immigrant - a legal one. I respect the law and despise those that don't.

Borders are real as are the political and financial implications of having to deal with millions of people who entered the country illegally. Jobs are also limited and for every illegal immigrant that gets a job, a legal resident does not. They need to go and soon.

As for who is getting pushed out. Take a look at the Arizona style legislation going up around the country and then let me know which one of us is losing.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

Borders are bullshit..... made up only for the power, greed, and control of certain people. That is the ONLY reason they exist. They are imagined.

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[-] 1 points by llf (144) 2 years ago

Here is the data. Take a look. You tell me...

http://www.azdhs.gov/plan/menu/for/births.htm

[-] 0 points by korzib9 (80) from Newark, NJ 2 years ago

What am I supposed to find?

[-] 1 points by llf (144) 2 years ago

The fact that you are clueless is your problem, son. Go to school and maybe you will learn a thing or two about rhetoric and argumentation. After you do that, perhaps I can teach you a few more things.

[-] 0 points by korzib9 (80) from Newark, NJ 2 years ago

Considering that you have lost the argument and resorted to nonsense I doubt you have anything to teach me.

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[-] -1 points by Karl101 (-6) 2 years ago

Please encourage illegals to show up, ICE will be waiting for them. Adios!

[-] -1 points by infonomics (393) 2 years ago

Although you use the term "immigrant", your rhetoric seems to suggest "illegal immigrant". You need to clarify. If you support illegal immigration, you will no longer have the 99% support you manifest so confidently. For one, as a long-time independent, I will drop my support.

I've returned for my own clarification. I have the greatest sympathy for the wretched plight of the illegals but immigration laws are in place for a reason, a good reason. The government cannot even manage the country without the illegal problem. Also, what do you say of a people whose first act on the soil of their guest is not only to break their laws but to march in protest for rights sacred to those who do respect our laws? What do you say of a people who denigrate the very people that they expect to give them amnesty? Why do you say of a people who manifest flippant regard to the wedge their actions have caused to their gracious host country? I would never think of doing the same to their country. Much has been made of the illegal's value to our country. Hooey. No one, I mean no one is indispensable. Indeed, if they were so valuable, then why didn't their own government recognize their value. They did not recognize it because the illegals were excess labor. Moreover, the once profitable maquiladoras eventually gave way to the cheaper Chinese labor. On this very website, I witness a long discussion about the bane of minimum wages, yet, apparently that idea seems to give way to the want for more labor, illegal labor. How utterly contradictory! Activists support illegals with arguments such as "our economy will collapse without them." Again, hooey. What they really mean is "my business will collapse without them." Incidentally, to those who remember, the slave labor used to harvest cotton was eventually supplanted with what? That right, the combine (aka the cotton picker). Technology will do the same for fruits and vegetables. Lastly and most importantly, if the excess labor problem can happen in Mexico, for example, then it can happen here and that's why you must manage immigration via quotas.

I hope OWS gives considerable attention to this matter as the consequences can be devastating to your movement.

[-] 4 points by llf (144) 2 years ago

Broken immigration laws and immigration systems make people "illegal" and a few are brainwahsed into this "us" and "them" mentality that just serves to divide and conquer workers by "race" and "nationality" because a few feel priviledged and don't want to be "taken over" by "the 'foreign' other." That is how I would "clarify" things for you. They is us and us is them...the "we" in "we are the 99%" is plural...and inclusive...

[-] 1 points by slohand (3) 2 years ago

The USA can take care of it's own protests.

[-] 1 points by groundscore (15) 2 years ago

occupy is a world wide movement if u want a us only movement start one, i wont join, i promise

[-] 2 points by DarknessOfGreed (41) 2 years ago

read up on NAFTA and the Mexican American war and maybe then you will show more compassion for these "excess laborers"

[-] 1 points by infonomics (393) 2 years ago

"Excess labor" is a common term used in economics, not an epithet as you seem to imply.

[-] 1 points by DarknessOfGreed (41) 2 years ago

good comeback but u failed to consider the actual point of my reply

[-] 1 points by fairforall (279) 2 years ago

I'm sure OccupyWallSt will clarify.

Waiting.

[-] 0 points by Rodin (29) 2 years ago

as soon as they clarify "fair share"

[-] -2 points by MVSN (768) from Stockton, CA 2 years ago

Get the fuck out of my country and go back to your Third World shithole.

[-] 1 points by groundscore (15) 2 years ago

you helped make it a third world shithole, you go there, i was born and raised here, my family goes back to the 1700s, if i could i would flag all of the racist stuff like yours

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