Welcome login | signup
Language en es fr
We kick the ass of the ruling class

#OWS Joins International Day of Action: We Are All Greeks Now

Posted 2 years ago on Feb. 17, 2012, 12:43 p.m. EST by OccupyWallSt

greece

Tomorrow, the people of Greece will take to the streets again to occupy Syntagma Square in protest of the extreme austerity measures being imposed on the backs of the Greek 99% to the joy and benefit of the European financial elite. The 99% everywhere are under assault by the same global banking interests. Greece is merely the most severe economic crisis yet to be imposed by the International Monetary Fund and other agents of the 1% in the Global North. People all over the world live under the tyranny of policies dictated by the IMF, the World Bank, and the G8. As demonstrated by the wholesale slashing of social services in the name of "debt reduction," New York City and the United States are not immune.

Our resistance to austerity will also be global. This weekend, the people of cities across the world will take to the streets in solidarity with the Greek protesters who have occupied their workplaces and public spaces to resist economic injustice. Demonstrations are planned throughout Germany, Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Spain, Finland, France, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, the Netherlands, Portgual, the United Kingdom, the United States, Sweden, and more. Click here for a partial listing of international rallies on Facebook. Occupy Chicago held a Greece solidarity rally yesterday. There is a rally today in San Francisco and tomorrow in New York City. See below for more information, the original call-out, and a statement of solidarity from Occupy Atlanta.

occupy chicago f16

TODAY: Friday, February 17, 2012
5:00pm to 6:30pm
101 Market Street
San Francisco, CA

Occupy San Francisco stands in solidarity with the sovereignty of the people in Greece against austerity measures. Greece's fight is our fight, as they are rebelling against the same economic oppression we are stateside. We will show Greece and simultaneously the US lawmakers and the 1%ers that we are aware of what is happening, and that we support the same struggles of people across miles and countries. This solidarity rally will demonstrate our dedication to the 99 percent's struggle for a better world. Join us for food, speakers, and dancing.

TOMORROW: Saturday, February 18, 2012
2:00pm until 5:00pm
Liberty Plaza (Zuccotti Park)
New York City, NY

In adherence to the global day of #Solidarity with #Greece, we protest against the austerity measures imposed on Greece by ECB-EC-IMF and the complicity of the non-elected Greek government. These measures are socially unfair and economically ineffective. We protest against police brutality, corporate greed and the destruction of democracy. Join us! #standbyGreece

via Real Democracy Greece:

Saturday 18th of February, international mobilization day :

We are all Greeks! When one people is attacked, all people are attacked.

The 10th of February, the non elected Greece Government adopted a new hideous and destructive austerity plan, passed by the parliament (MPs voted 199-101 in favour) on the 12th of February. The new austerity measures impose a 22% reduction in the minimum wage, which will remain frozen for the next three years; collective bargaining is simply cut; 15000 public sector workers are laid off and 150000 jobs will be destroyed due to the non-renewal of the contract...

The people of Greece is bravely rising up against social terror policies. With the media’s deafening silence, demonstrations, as well as general strikes, become more and more frequent despite the violent repression.

The people of Greece need the international solidarity and they call for our support [1] Let’s reply to their call. We are all Greek!

Their mobilization is clashing with the wall of an European and international dictatorship, the dictatorship of the financial markets and the troika: EU, ECB and IMF, who have imposed austerity measures and a non-elected government on the Greek. The EU governments are involved in the dictatorship and they implement measures which are in the same line in the rest of the countries. Greece is being used as a laboratory before generalizing these measures. The situation is going to get even worse due to the new European Treaty project, which will impose the « golden rule » in our national constitutions.

We reject to sacrifice the people to the money, as do the Greeks.

Let’s regain the reins of our lives. Switch off your computer, join the mobilization! There will be demonstrations everywhere in solidarity with the mobilization of the people of Greece, Saturday the 18th of February.

[1] http://realdemocracygr.wordpress.com/2012/02/10/so-its-final-now/

From Occupy Atlanta:

We Stand In Solidarity With the People of Greece!

Occupy Atlanta calls on all occupations and the 99% worldwide to stand in solidarity with the people of Greece and rally in support for their mass protest against the austerity measures plotted by the Greek government and the 1% clients.

Who imploded the Greek economy? The axis of corrupt Greek politicians and their 1& financial bedfellows, the Eurozone, and last but not least, "the great vampire squid" aka Goldman Sachs. And now behind closed doors, they dare to legislate austerity measures on the backs of the Greek people. Tens of thousands of people in Greece have taken to the streets to express their anger. They are saying no to austerity!

Occupy Atlanta condemns the austerity measures passed by the Greek government. We also issue a friendly alert to the 99% worldwide: stay vigilant for similar legislation from your governments and oppose them with all your might especially when they involve the IMF (International Monetary Fund). Don't believe the lies! These cuts are designed by the 1% corporate-financial elite to force everyone else to pay for their swindles and misadventures.

Stand firm people of Greece, and finish what you started! Continue your resistance until you take back your democracy!

The revolution is underway. The whole world is watching.

Occupy for Greece Worldwide!

90 Comments

90 Comments


Read the Rules
[-] 5 points by OldCrow (22) 2 years ago

To me the bankers, IMF, ECB and EU commission are the new nazis and they are raping Europe (right now S. Europe) just like the original nazis did back in the 1940's but this time with austerity and privatization programs instead of tanks and bombs. If they get away with it in Greece, Italy and Spain etc. they will do it here sooner or later. Already they have caused immense damage with millions of people in the U.S. losing their homes and jobs. As one of it's usual tactics the corporate media is portraying the Greeks as the villain when they are obviously the victims of neo-liberal economics, bankers and their servant institutions and politicians. The Greeks are tremendously courageous to fight against this bunch and I am all for them.

[-] 1 points by debndan (1145) 2 years ago

couldn't agree more

[-] 4 points by Sisi (6) 2 years ago

my name is Sisi Galanopoulou, I am just a citizen of Greece and I would like to send you open letter to International public opinion "The truth about Greece" of the Miki Theodoraki. But it’s 5 pages so you may find it through internet. In order to show you the creative power of this person, of which all Greeks are very pround of, I am sending you a song, music by Theodorakis and lyrics By Odysseas Elitis (one of the most famous Greek poets), which shows the strengh that Greek people has. The name of the song? SUN OF JUSTICE!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asnxIGDsMfM&feature=related

SUN of JUSTICE... ( Της δικαιοσύνης ήλιε νοητέ) Lyrics: Odysseas Elytis Music: Mikis Theodorakis

Sun of justice, whom we feel * and you, myrtle branch of glory, do not, I beg of you do not forget my country!

It has tall mountains shaped like eagles the vines in ranks on the volcanoes' flanks and the houses more white for the neighbourhood of the azure.

My bitter hands, by thunder I am turning them back behind the times, my old friends, I am calling them forth with threats and with blood!

[-] 1 points by 1rule (3) 2 years ago

Sisi, fantastic stuff. My name is 'G' an English musician who intends to contribute to global awareness by writing music about the greedy 1%. The more we rattle their cages - the more we win. My music -

http://www.reverbnation.com/6502g

P.S hope that Greece defaults so all the upper classes lose for a change.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (21302) 2 years ago

Thanks for sharing that with us, Sisi. Solidarity to Greece.

[-] 2 points by saltyseadude (2) 2 years ago

This is not a simple issue with the good guys (the people) against the bad guys (the banks) – and the problem didn’t occur overnight. In Greece, as in the USA - The people didn’t mind that their country was living beyond its means until it impacted them directly. “They” bought our apathy and fostered our ignorance which We were OK with until the bill came due – then we point fingers (“I didn’t order that!”) and look for someone else to pay the bill... and why the anti German remarks? The people there work hard and pay thier bills, dont bash them, bash thier banks.

[-] 1 points by 1rule (3) 2 years ago

'Living beyond one's needs' - compared to the queen of England - not really. The civil world is dictated by its rulers - rulers can't handle power thus insanity sets in. Humans and power dont work - let computers decide - no emoitional bias - then the wealth would truley be distributed. All boils down to role models - people live beyond their means because society encourages this - not banks. But bankers are people and people dont work with power.

[-] 1 points by airplaneradio (50) 2 years ago

Yeah, but who is going to be touching and tweaking these computers? They don't exactly encode themselves.

[-] 2 points by JohnVam (2) 2 years ago
[-] 2 points by FairPrince (6) from Spring Valley, NV 2 years ago

Greece is a poor choice; the country has been wasting incredible amounts of money hoping that the EU would bail it out. Lots of political corruption there. The Occupy movement might want to consider becoming responsible citizens from one-sided demagogues. We, the People, have the potential.

Go to Hungary (another member of the European Union since 2004, also deeply in debt) where the average person is making less than one tenth of the average Greek government worker's wages (for which Greece never had money; doesn't it remind you of US federal workers?). Even Hungary is owned for the next 60 years by the largest banking groups as a collateral for "loans."

Occupy Wall Street is attacking the most powerful interest group in the world; I keep wondering if all the arrested participants are still alive or already started dying from mysterious diseases.

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

unity by all people is important

[-] 0 points by FairPrince (6) from Spring Valley, NV 2 years ago

Unity must be based on a reasonable objective; something that can be carried out, because politicians would be willing to compromise. Grassroots and the threat of binding referendums are the only way to force political compromises.

[-] 2 points by Zabralkan (13) 2 years ago

Then you will be only asking the lion to reconsider eating the prey... After 15 general strikes do you really think that a "binding" referendum telling the lion "please stop eating me" would really make a difference? The only true solution is the path that the Greek workers had already started in the previous general strike: Take over the parliament. Yet there is one problem: The Communist Party defended it with sticks and baseball bats... Would them reconsider hitting the protesters if you give them a referendum? Somehow, I doubt it. The path is through them, and as we learned from Tunisia: "We have thrown Ali, now the 40 thieves are left" (In reference to the Tunisian "parliament").

[-] 1 points by FairPrince (6) from Spring Valley, NV 2 years ago

Binding referendum works. You can keep the rest for yourself.

[-] 1 points by Zabralkan (13) 2 years ago

Tell me a single case it worked out in this crisis.

[-] 1 points by kylelee34 (48) 2 years ago

Jordan

[-] 1 points by Zabralkan (13) 2 years ago

Can you be a little bit more specific? Did the binding referendum stop the crisis? And, even so, the rest of the world is under attack by the bankers. Do you really think that they will stop with a sheet of paper with many signatures?

[-] 1 points by kylelee34 (48) 2 years ago

The king abolished the the current governmnet, promised democratic and economic reform, and the riots ended.

[-] 1 points by Zabralkan (13) 2 years ago

Riots ending doesn't mean that things are better. Look at what happened in USA, there were riots against the war (one million man movement, and the anti war movement), obama promised a more democratic government and an economic reform, riots ended and there was no reform, no end of war, no "democracy". Yes, riots ended, but not in the easy way, many were jailed, repressed, etc. And everyone made an effort to paint obama (bush) as democratic, when we all know that in USA the only party is the "republicrats" party.

[Removed]

[-] 2 points by alterorabolish1 (569) 2 years ago

Is it true that the largest Greek police union has united with the people? Is it true that the Greek government is now taxing food, water, electricity, tv, cell phones, etc. so much that a common Greek cannot afford to pay for these things? If so, I am in solidarity with the Greek people that there must be another option.

Is it possible that the minimum wage reductions and the layoffs would not need to occur if the bankers and bondholders accepted less profits?

[-] 2 points by Sisi (6) 2 years ago

Mikis Theodorakis: An Open Letter On the Truth About Greece

http://www.infowars.com/mikis-theodorakis-an-open-letter-on-the-truth-about-greece/

I am sending you the link so you may READ WHAT IS HAPPENING TO GREECE RIGHT NOW! Are you sure that this will not happen to your own country and yourselves?

[-] 1 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 2 years ago

A cap on profits would fix this problem. Greedy profits was the cause of economic collapse.

[-] 1 points by alterorabolish1 (569) 2 years ago

Would personally prefer taxation with Equality applied, than a cap on profits.

[-] 1 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 2 years ago

They are trying taxes. It is making prices go up on everything. Not solving the downward spiral. Everyone is afraid of a cap on profits.

[-] 1 points by lola (2) 2 years ago

I don't know about the police as I am not living there, but everything else is true..plus that Greece is one of the most expensive countries for commodities shopping etc and now has the lowest wage in EU and is going to be even less..the national bankers are making less profits by the current situation BUT the international bankers and speculators are making sooo much money out of it...

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

austerity suggest simple inexpensive living

I don't see how cutting 1/5 of the government jobs is simply living

A museum was robed due to lack of security due to job cut backs

http://news.yahoo.com/greek-culture-minister-quits-over-ancient-olympia-theft-084708203.html

Two masked men took advantage of the fact the building was unguarded for an hour in the early morning, knocked out the alarm, then overpowered the museum's sole female guard when she arrived for her shift, officials said.

[-] 1 points by tobuso (3) 2 years ago

You people talk about Nazis and yet you do not understand that you are the beginning. Civil unrest and class warfare are what brought the Nazis and the Communist to power.

The Nazis spoke to the common man that he deserved more and that National (bloodline) pride was the most important. So they rounded up 12mm people mostly Jews and any dissidence and most died.

The Communist took advantage of a coup that had just happened. They stormed the building with less than 100 men. Communist think that people are just another animal living on earth that can be managed. So they went to work managing those people and their crops. They put in to place collectivism by rounding up all the crops as well as the seeds. This created a famine for 29mm people and 5mm died. They did this again under Stalin but the results were even worse. Stalin killed 40mm people due to collectivist starvation. The USSR killed somewhere around 100mm people in total due to the stupid Socialist policies.

And now you people are here ranting about how its not fare that you only make $8 hour and someone else makes $X. It doesn't matter what they make. You need to think about yourself.

Its much scarier to have a job in a Socialist/Communist country than to not have a job in a capitalist country.

[-] 1 points by zorbaka2 (61) 2 years ago

you've got a good point. Folks need to try to move beyond the old idea of either communist or capitalist choices. these are not the only two ways a society can go. limiting the choices to those two only lead to polarization and splitting society apart into two factions who will not change their minds about anything and end up in a war fighting each other. Just my opinion of course.

[-] 1 points by 1rule (3) 2 years ago

Great website - just what i've been looking for. My music is taking a turn - towards exposing this dirty filthly layer of upper class human beings all around the world . please spread the link.

http://www.reverbnation.com/6502g

[-] 1 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 2 years ago

Greece, the only quick solution for recovery is to place a cap on middleman profits. This will save you. Grab on !

[-] 1 points by rickMoss (435) 2 years ago

We need a better way to fight back. One that provides solutions not more instability.

"WAKE UP PEOPLE!” - JOIN THE REVOLUTION There is a better way to fight back. Read “Common Sense 3.1” at ( http://www.revolution2.osixs.org ) – “entirely”

How else can I say this? "We Are Free!" http://WeAreFree.osixs.org "Spread the News"

[-] 1 points by vlazakiv (1) 2 years ago

Greece will survive for its unique, huge contribution to the world civilization: astronomy,architecture,engineering,physics,biology,chemistry,philosophy,mathematics, geometry,democracy,chemistry,medicine,human rights,Olympic games, legal system & last but not least they taught the world how to fight & die for eternal values:Salamis, Marathon,Thermopylae, Battle of Crete, epos of Albania.

[-] 1 points by EvainAthensGreece (1) 2 years ago

Thanks for this post! I've written a post as well about the solidarity shown for Greece, with a link to you. Thanks again! Power!

[-] 1 points by antiglobb (47) 2 years ago

I give you an important news. The Greeks have realized a "Movement against the Troika". You'd better to join to this Movement in order to enlarge each other. Tomorrow I'll give the link to contact it.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Great! Thank you very much! They are downplaying the movement in the American press. Acting as if we've just dried up and blown away. Time will prove them wrong. We are just getting started.

[-] 1 points by antiglobb (47) 2 years ago

I, too, think that the victory of the World Revolution is sure. All the oppressed people are moving against their governement and are organizing a global movement to step down the criminals called bankers. I'll send my article on my blog about this theme at 8 'o clock this evening. You know italian. So you can read it and translate it on OWS. My blog is "spectre2012.wordpress.com". Bye

[-] 1 points by icarcom (1) 2 years ago

just click on a country name to see who owes what..... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15748696

[-] 1 points by Bighead1883 (285) 2 years ago

So,the Kleptocrats want their pound of flesh.Then it is time for all war repatriations to be paid then is it not.For a start Germany will never be able to afford it.Neither will the Axis Countries of the time as well.Also who is responsible for the 6 trillion worth of fake American Government bonds found recently in a Swiss Bank.There is a lot that is very rotten and it`s not in Denmark.I noted where notaneoliberal called for a Jubilee on this site.So far the only sounding of reason that the Kleptocrats should adhere to.But methinks they want to create war on a grand scale by economically crippling the world first.Vote out all Kleptocrats.The Greeks defeated greater threats in the past and no doubt will prevail again.

[-] 1 points by higheagle (1) 2 years ago

I'm beginning to think the OWS should not even compare themselves to these other global movements.. after all, they haven't even been able to deal with the 'fascists'...! So until they get off their 'passive-asses'... I'll stay ready with the armed-liberal-militia....

[-] 1 points by Dontastu (4) 2 years ago

Wörgl´s expirence to save the World. Here the facts: http://youtu.be/hxdPIOUTd2k

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by votersway (15) 2 years ago

Greece is a victim of unbalanced trade and corrupt EU banking practices. Greece was drained... chewed and sucked dry. Some of these issues are explained here:

http://votersway.com/2012/02/11/a-classic-greek-tragedy/

That article doesn't explain the banking irregularities or the EU rule which bans the members from exporting more outside of the EU than they export inside.

The Greeks WILL default, aboslutely no waya roaund it, the sooner, the better for everyone. After they defaul they must get out of the Euro-zone, re-establish their currency and only then they WILL BE ABLE TO WORK.

Now, THEY HAVE NO JOBS, they can't produce, thus can't return anything... all due to the corrupt EU policies. The only way out is a currency of their own.

[-] 1 points by Zabralkan (13) 2 years ago

I completely agree with the action day! As in the good old days when we stripped the 8 hours of work, the only way to triumph is with a worldwide fight! They are attacking us all the way round, the wipe of the capital reach from Chile to Japan, from USA to Greece, Egypt and Syria. The workers and the poor people is under attack! The Syrian masses are suffering a bloodbath (Bomb after bomb, with no rest) from the hand of Al Assad, lackey of Obama and Merkel. A decisive international action will be clean air for the Syrian masses to breath, and it will be the push to throw down the hated Al-Assad regime!

[-] 1 points by kylelee34 (48) 2 years ago

If all of the Greek debt was wiped out and the slate was clean they would still have to impliment austerity to address why they went into debt in the first place. You can't live a $4000 a month lifestyle when you only have $3000 a month in income. Greece is the ultimate "Keeping up with the joanses" story, they're a second world economy based on agriculture and tourism, but the think they can afford the same social programs as Germany when in truth Greece has an economy that looks more like Mexico's. Borrowing only prolongs the inevitable. No nation has ever improved their standard of living by defaulting on their debt, take a look at Argintina in the 90s if you want to know what Greece will look like if they default.

[-] 2 points by alterorabolish1 (569) 2 years ago

Living a $4,000 a month lifestyle while income is only $3,000 is not sustainable. Examining the $4,000 per month expenses to understand where the money goes, it might simply be that they are living above their means. However, if a significant amount of that $4,000 is unfairly transferred to people that don't consider equality applicable to them, outrage should be expected. Transparency would solve this issue.

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by votersway (15) 2 years ago

The situation is quite a bit more serious and complex. Southern Europe has been financing the North for 20 years now. The Southern countries place their savings in the Northern banks at depositor interest and loan them back at borrower's interest - at least 5% more. The Banking system and trade regulations of the EU are corrupt beyond repair:

http://votersway.com/2012/02/11/a-classic-greek-tragedy/

For Greece the only way to get better is to return to their own currency, devalue it and start rebuilding their country (This is what China did and keeps doing). There will be austerity for a short time. Otherwise there will be austerity forever. Default now and get out of the corrupt euro-zone.

[-] 2 points by alterorabolish1 (569) 2 years ago

Who is Southern Europe and who is Northern Banks? I think you are exactly right to say the Banking system and the trade regulations of the EU are corrupt beyond repair. The time has come for resolve to change that aspect instead of accepting austerity for a short time!

[-] 1 points by votersway (15) 2 years ago

South: Greece, Italy, Portugal, Spain North: Germany, Denmark, France, Belgium

[-] 1 points by alterorabolish1 (569) 2 years ago

The point was that it doesn't matter who Southern Europe is or who make up the Northern Banks! They have advantages because Equality is not being applied and corruption exists. We should resolve to change that aspect!

[-] 1 points by kylelee34 (48) 2 years ago

agreed, but I don't think that's the problem. Greece does not have a GDP that allows them to live at the same standard as Germany, or France but the government is trying to provide the same social services and going broke doing it.

[-] 1 points by antigoris (14) 2 years ago

just saw that. so Greece is trying to provide same social services as Germany and France. What are you talking about? be specific? which services? show us some facts please.

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by alterorabolish1 (569) 2 years ago

How did you learn that their GDP doesn't allow them to live at the same standard as Germany? If you're like me, you read it on the internet as some official stats provide by supposedly reliable sources. What if we were able to examine the details and the Greek people were in the right to be outraged? Maybe the austerity, (suffering), would not be necessary if bankers and bondholders accepted less profits?

[-] 1 points by kylelee34 (48) 2 years ago

I don't think they shouldn't be mad, just realistic about heir options. Even if the bondholders took a 100% loss the Greek government would still be spending more then it takes in. If they can fix that without hurting to many people, great! But history says that default or not Greece is in store for a long period of economic hardship. Nothing personal...just harsh reality

[-] 2 points by alterorabolish1 (569) 2 years ago

You are assuming they are living beyond their means. That may be true! Let's look at the details openly and see the truth of the issues. I suspect it might be more than just living beyond their means.

[-] 1 points by kylelee34 (48) 2 years ago

Agreed. +1

[-] 2 points by antigoris (14) 2 years ago

interesting view kylelee... did you investigate that yourself and came to this conclusion? have you ever even been to Greece? ever spoken to a Greek? or is it the all trusted media that brought you to this belief? tell us please? as for ''No nation has ever improved their standard of living by defaulting on their debt, take a look at Argintina in the 90s if you want to know what Greece will look like if they default.'' have a look at this article http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,769703,00.html German newspaper, German writer. I hope you ll reconsider.. waiting for your thoughts.

[-] 1 points by kylelee34 (48) 2 years ago

First off I agree with FairPrince why are telling me not to trust the media and then posting a media article...pure hypocrisy.

Second have you ever read about the Wiemar Republic and what life was like under them? The economy of Wiemar Germany was so bad from it's defaults that people had to literally use wheel barrels full of money to buy a loaf of bread. Please tell me that your solution to the Greek problem is not to follow the lead of a government whose economy failed so miserably that it's citizens welcomed Hitler with open arms as a savior...please tell me you are not that ignorant of the lessons history has thought us.

[-] 2 points by antigoris (14) 2 years ago

I guess you cannot separate between a journalists article and a scientist interview. I havent read about Wiemar republic and this is not the case. The case is that your opinion about defaulting is wrong Germany has done it and look at them now. How this happened is not part of this argument. I dont quiet understand what you mean by '' Please tell me that your solution to the Greek problem is not to follow the lead of a government whose economy failed so miserably that it's citizens welcomed Hitler with open arms as a savior..'' so if you could please rephrase it. No comments about the comparison of Greece to Mexico?

[-] 0 points by kylelee34 (48) 2 years ago

Ignoring how it happened is just plain ignorant and short sighted...Japan has a great economy too that doesn't mean bombing Pearl Harbor was a good idea.

[-] 1 points by FairPrince (6) from Spring Valley, NV 2 years ago

You have a Greek name, apparently, you are familiar with the situation as it affects your friends and family. Read my comment.

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by HarryPairatestes2 (380) from Barrow, AK 2 years ago

How will going to Greece or talking to a Greek make a difference in your opinion? Your article supports Kylelee's position.

Plus, why belittle the original poster for relying on the "trusted media" but your base your position on the same media?

[-] 1 points by antigoris (14) 2 years ago

I guess if you want to have a real opinion you should research your subject. How is it that my article supports kylelee's position? he is saying that 'No nation has ever improved their standard of living by defaulting on their debt' where the article says that this isnt the case as Germany who is widely accepted to be a strong economy has defaulted on its debt three times. I m not referencing a journalist but a scientist that is the difference.

[-] 1 points by kylelee34 (48) 2 years ago

actually your referencing an Economist on a journalist website. Why do you believe him but dismiss the economists that say Greece needs austerity...could it be because you're cherry picking data?

[-] 1 points by kylelee34 (48) 2 years ago

Not to mention the fact the Wiemar Germany's debt was due to War reparations forced on it by the allies after WW1 not from government overspending. Minus the reparations Germany was a solvent nation with a balanced budget. Minus all it's national debt Greece still has a huge unfunded deficit that it will have to deal with. That's why I think they will still have to implement Austerity regardless of the outcome.

[-] 1 points by antigoris (14) 2 years ago

unrelated

[-] 1 points by kylelee34 (48) 2 years ago

that's not unrelated at all..it's EXACTLY why default will not improve the Greek situation. If you are Greek, I now have a much better understanding of why your nation is bankrupt. You are extremely short sighted and unable to connect the dots to a bigger picture.

[-] 1 points by antigoris (14) 2 years ago

it is unrelated. The argument here is you saying that default can only make things worse which is not the case as i showed you with my article. Let me be short sighted and you the open minded. Before that though i expect you to comment on your failed comparison between Greece and Mexico. As for the post bellow Greeks fought Nazism and they would again and not in a million years they would ever develop a philosophy as such. Their looong history has showed it.

[-] 1 points by kylelee34 (48) 2 years ago

Your right I did fail in that comparison...Mexico manufactures and exports a large amount of goods to the rest of the world and has a total GDP three time higher the Greece as a result. I didn't mean to insult Mexico by comparing them to Greece...my bad.

Lets say Greece is more like Iceland, bankrupt with little offer except tourism.

[-] 1 points by kylelee34 (48) 2 years ago

<<As for the post bellow Greeks fought Nazism and they would again and not in a million years they would ever develop a philosophy as such. Their looong history has showed it.>>

Not true Greece had a military dictatorship not more then a few decades ago. And default made things MUCH worse for Wiemar Germany, I never said they were screwed for life but had they not defaulted an entire decade of suffering would have been avoided.

[-] 2 points by antigoris (14) 2 years ago

so in your mind the Greek dictatorship of the '70s is similar to Nazism... honestly dont just google stuff. Nazism caused a world war which is not even close to the Greek dictatorship. At this point just because i realized that are a politic and answer only to the things that fit you i ll have to ignore you, plus the fact that you cannot accept you ve made a mistake. so have a good life you open minded.. and if in any case your country ever falls into a financial crisis just say yes to everything. after all, all the important things in life have been achieved by saying yes..

[-] 1 points by kylelee34 (48) 2 years ago

Military dictatorships ARE Fascism, that's a fact. Best of luck to you too Greece, I can't wait until a weeks vacation in Santorini only cost $500. By the way since you're so convinced I don't know about Greece, why don't you try studying the hedonists in ancient Crete...this isn't the first time you guys have spent yourself into a collapse.

If you think I'm so wrong about you're budget what do you suggest? Like the rest of the protestors you're all complaint and no solution.

[-] 1 points by kylelee34 (48) 2 years ago

and their economy was so bad as a result of the defaults they became desperate enough to go along with the Nazis as a result...not the example Greece should look to.

[-] 1 points by antigoris (14) 2 years ago

unrelated as well. but just out of curiosity. you seem be a supporter of the austerity measures even though you dont really know the whole story behind Greece. and since you ve spoken so much about Nazis and Hitler i just wanted to know if you are afraid that a second version of Hitler might rise from this situation.

[-] 0 points by kylelee34 (48) 2 years ago

I think people will make irrational choices when they become desperate, yes. Kinda like calling any bit of information that contradicts you "unrelated". It's the mark of someone not willing to deal with reality.

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by antigoris (14) 2 years ago

Plus one more point just for the sake of it nominal GDP per capita for Mexico= $10,802 nominal GDP per capita for Greece=$27,875 (http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2011/02/weodata/weorept.aspx?sy=2011&ey=2011&scsm=1&ssd=1&sort=country&ds=.&br=1&c=512%2C941%2C914%2C446%2C612%2C666%2C614%2C668%2C311%2C672%2C213%2C946%2C911%2C137%2C193%2C962%2C122%2C674%2C912%2C676%2C313%2C548%2C419%2C556%2C513%2C678%2C316%2C181%2C913%2C682%2C124%2C684%2C339%2C273%2C638%2C921%2C514%2C948%2C218%2C943%2C963%2C686%2C616%2C688%2C223%2C518%2C516%2C728%2C918%2C558%2C748%2C138%2C618%2C196%2C522%2C278%2C622%2C692%2C156%2C694%2C624%2C142%2C626%2C449%2C628%2C564%2C228%2C283%2C924%2C853%2C233%2C288%2C632%2C293%2C636%2C566%2C634%2C964%2C238%2C182%2C662%2C453%2C960%2C968%2C423%2C922%2C935%2C714%2C128%2C862%2C611%2C716%2C321%2C456%2C243%2C722%2C248%2C942%2C469%2C718%2C253%2C724%2C642%2C576%2C643%2C936%2C939%2C961%2C644%2C813%2C819%2C199%2C172%2C184%2C132%2C524%2C646%2C361%2C648%2C362%2C915%2C364%2C134%2C732%2C652%2C366%2C174%2C734%2C328%2C144%2C258%2C146%2C656%2C463%2C654%2C528%2C336%2C923%2C263%2C738%2C268%2C578%2C532%2C537%2C944%2C742%2C176%2C866%2C534%2C369%2C536%2C744%2C429%2C186%2C433%2C925%2C178%2C869%2C436%2C746%2C136%2C926%2C343%2C466%2C158%2C112%2C439%2C111%2C916%2C298%2C664%2C927%2C826%2C846%2C542%2C299%2C967%2C582%2C443%2C474%2C917%2C754%2C544%2C698&s=NGDPDPC&grp=0&a=&pr.x=26&pr.y=7) So more invalid facts. I suggest you research better before coming to a conclusion.

[-] 1 points by kylelee34 (48) 2 years ago

nominal GDP of Germany 45,000...you're still closer to Mexico, and 27,875 is nowhere near enough to support the social services that the Greeks expect the government to give them.

Also in terms of total GDP Mexico is three times wealthier then Greece with 1.04 trillion dollars GDP to Greece's 305 billion

[-] 1 points by antigoris (14) 2 years ago

ok i think this comment sums everything. you are comparing the GDP of a 120 million people country to one of 12 million. in any possible way this doest make sense. i seriously dont know what to say. hahaha seriously?? .. they are 10 times the population of Greece and their GDP is barely three times more. This is just fail.. really sorry. end of our talk. thats final. btw people like you make me realise that is why we have come to this state as a world. just 'bla bla' no proof no facts empty words. please think more.

[-] 1 points by kylelee34 (48) 2 years ago

So are you going to argue that Greece is a wealthier nation then china because they have 1.3 billion people and a GDP of only 5.88 trillion. What facts have you put up to show that I'm wrong? All you can do say "unrelated" to anything that contradicts you, because you're a coward and have no argument

[-] 1 points by antigoris (14) 2 years ago

so you now brought china in the conversation... i thought you compared us to mexico. whats with china now? and just because you seem to compare just the GDP regardless of the population how can you say tha Greece's economy ($305Million) looks more like Mexico's ($1.04Trillion). Again non comparable as Mexico's GDP is way higher. And for your info, dictatorship is not a synonym of fascizm. As for the solution, if Europe doesnt start acting like a union i propose we just leave the Monetery union. You are American arent you?

[-] 1 points by kylelee34 (48) 2 years ago

I agree, Greece should leave the Euro zone...in fact they never were prosperous enough to be part of it in the first place. When that happens the Drachma will become worth next to nothing, and no nation will lend Greece money for a long time, to make up for this Greeks will take a huge hit to their standard of living and the government will cut spending because they can't find anyone to borrow from. In response I'm sure the Greeks will keep burning down their own shops and rioting, but in the end you're skrewed either way...at least for a decade or so. Sometimes our medicine makes us feel bad for a time but it's the only way to get better. So get over it and accept the fact that you're going have to make sacrafices to get out of this mess.

[-] 1 points by FairPrince (6) from Spring Valley, NV 2 years ago

I agree.

[-] 1 points by Bssgrl (9) 2 years ago

Sunday New Haven Ct is having an interstateoccupy march!!!! 2pm Starts on upper Green will march though center of New Haven and Yale, home of Secret Society Skull & Bones and march down Wall St symbolically gathering at City Hall as well which is Bank Row and where the Federal Court is as well ......Solidarity & <3

[-] 1 points by lola (2) 2 years ago

The thing with Greece is not just support the Greeks because the are now having poor economy and austerity measures.

Is about how democracy has been butchered, with the worst and insidious way. We should stop being observers and act immediately or else we might have the same fate..in the name of the world economy.

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by centhena (2) from Santa Clara, CA 2 years ago

I wish I could like this more than once. This is exactly the solution!

[-] 0 points by WakeUpWorldTV (58) 2 years ago

I'm still waiting for Occupy to embrace this direction.

These are the only keys to an abundant-peaceful future: --Resource Based Economy --The Zeitgeist Movement --The Venus Project --Open Source Ecology

Occupy will never be a solution until it latches itself to these ideas.

[Removed]

[-] -2 points by tomahawk99 (-26) 2 years ago

no we are not all Greeks now, but continue the crazy deficit spending and government growth and we will be.

[-] 1 points by antigoris (14) 2 years ago

if you dont mind me asking. Which country are you from?

[-] 0 points by tomahawk99 (-26) 2 years ago

good question as this blog is not restricted to users from one country and i used the word 'we'. i'm from the U.S.

[-] 1 points by FairPrince (6) from Spring Valley, NV 2 years ago

Correct.