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We kick the ass of the ruling class

Eviction Defense!

Posted 2 years ago on Nov. 3, 2011, 7:25 p.m. EST by OccupyWallSt

Sign up for the eviction defense text blast!
Send a text to the number 23559, with the the message @occupyalert
This will be used for emergency alerts and announcements.

Three weeks ago NYPD delivered what was effectively a notice of eviction, telling residents of Liberty Square that Brookfield, with the help of the city, was going to clean the park. Instead, #OWS mobilized, organizing a mass clean up, mobilizing thousands of supporters, and flooding the mayors office with phone calls. An amazing pre-dawn defence packed the square with thousands of people. Brookfield stood down and the eviction was averted.

Today rumors are rampant that the city is again considering action to end the occupation. Labor leaders, local elected officials, and news outlets are hearing the rumblings of eviction. We know that when the next eviction attempt comes, we will not get advanced warning. NYPD could move in as early as tonight, or it could be next week. We know that our adversaries are trying to build political cover for eviction by demonizing us in the press.

We need to be ready to defend the occupation. Be prepared!

372 Comments

372 Comments


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[-] 8 points by sqrltyler (207) 2 years ago

Of course we will defend Zuccatti Park with the power of our numbers, but it's also time to seriously start preparing for phase two of this movement.

How can we maintain our strength, and democratic decision making, after we can no longer occupy these spaces on a full time basis?

What infrastructure are we setting up to maintain a nationwide dialogue?

[-] 4 points by korzib9 (80) from Newark, NJ 2 years ago

Seriously you guys need to replicate occupy wall street online in some way - GAs, Caucuses, voting, funny finger gestures and all that stuff. There is limited space in the park and at some point you are going to need to organize beyond the thousand or so people that can fit in that park. Use some of that money to start a development project to replicate the #OWS structures in an online forum.

Additionally, at some point you are getting kicked out of that park. Some small number of idiots will get violent and it will give the city and the property owner all the justification they need to push you out. Honestly it wouldn't be that hard. A couple dozen canisters of tear gas and some police with shields slowly moving through the park pushing people or arresting them and throwing them into paddywagons. It would take a whole of 30 minutes.

[-] 3 points by Wolfeman (8) 2 years ago

No korzib - I disagree.

I was there the Friday for prior eviction threat.

The solution is to mass huge numbers of supporters to block police action.

If enough people show up, Mayor and cops will stand down.

[-] 1 points by Gileos (309) 2 years ago

Your gonna get your ass beat.

[-] 1 points by Misenka1457 (45) 2 years ago

We need at least a million people to overcrowd those bastards!

[-] 1 points by Gileos (309) 2 years ago

The police are bastards? For doing their jobs?

[-] 1 points by JohnTM (25) 2 years ago

Agree, but not everyone who wishes to be there is physically or geographically able to be there. But, they can be with you with their computers! I am sure millions of people like me are following events. Maybe OWS should find someone to feature in a story. OWS does have a "silent majority" ready to help with OWS direction as well as "a thousand points of light". How can OWS deploy them is the very heart of success of OWS, not just land at city parks.

[-] 1 points by sunwu18 (5) 2 years ago

You make a good point, but I think they've wised up to that because I heard there will be very little warning next time.

[-] 0 points by korzib9 (80) from Newark, NJ 2 years ago

sunwu18 is right. Next time it will be at 4AM with no warning and they will block reinforcements. They can block all four intersections the park is on and bring in a bunch of vans. They can even inject cops into the park to split it up while you guys are still mostly asleep so that you can't organize a resistance. If there are almost no reporters on the scene they have no reason to back down. Then they will just leave cops on the site to make sure that no one can put a tent up in the park going forward. Obviously you can attempt to reoccupy but then you are going to have to fight the police to do it.

[-] 0 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 2 years ago

You just occupy another space.Move around, like nomads.

[-] 3 points by sqrltyler (207) 2 years ago

I completely agree korzib9. In order to keep this movement pure, everyone needs to be involved in the decision making. We need to set up an online forum where we can replicate a GA. Democratic decisions are the very heart of what we are fighting for.

[-] 1 points by mserfas (652) from Ashland, PA 2 years ago

This is so appealing, and yet... you've seen how many trolls there are on this forum. Making an online assembly that doesn't have the commitment barriers to membership will require some serious innovation to keep it functioning.

[-] 1 points by Misenka1457 (45) 2 years ago

Julian Asange team should be able to help with that!

[-] 0 points by korzib9 (80) from Newark, NJ 2 years ago

if you want to represent more than just the ideologically driven people already in the park you are going to have to be able to deal with a troll or two or hundred.

[-] 0 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 2 years ago

Direct democracy just doesn't scale. If it did, it would have been used before by large groups of people.

[-] 0 points by korzib9 (80) from Newark, NJ 2 years ago

Then let it fail and let the illusion dispel.

Honestly, I agree with you. At some point you need structure, dedicated public servants and there are issues that will be 51%/49% and decisions still need to be made.

[-] 1 points by barb (835) 2 years ago

We tried that, remember, that is what we have now and look where that has gotten us.

[-] 0 points by korzib9 (80) from Newark, NJ 2 years ago

Baby, bathwater... What got us here is the ocean of money in politics, not representative democracy.

[-] 1 points by Misenka1457 (45) 2 years ago

NEVER! This will never die, this how progress has been achieved for humanity!

[-] 0 points by korzib9 (80) from Newark, NJ 2 years ago

What is 'this' that will never die?

As for progress.. We may disagree on what 'progress' is and there is a strong chance we are not going to find a consensus.

[-] 1 points by sylrse (38) 2 years ago

I'm not against an online forum, but it's too early in this protest, and too easy to be ignored, if the people are not physically visable. To disappear from the streets will give the impression the occupy movement is gone.

[-] 0 points by korzib9 (80) from Newark, NJ 2 years ago

You can use the online forum/site/organization to launch flash mobs to march/protest/whatever. They are very difficult to stop or to ignore. At the same time it is very possible to remove the various occupations, like the one in Zuccotti. Once the physical camp is gone how would you organize any future actions?

[-] 1 points by JohnTM (25) 2 years ago

I agree. You need something for those of us who can not physically be at OWS. Mainstream media is ignoring you and often reporting just negative aspects. I like the idea of the text message alert system you just announced. That way we can know when to look at this web site and make our feelings known to other people we normally communicate with. That way word will spread rapidly when events happen.

[-] 1 points by Someguyfromwis (41) 2 years ago

Flaw in that is what the consensus on the ground determines what is relivent to report or not to. Leaving it open to interpretation.

[-] 1 points by JohnTM (25) 2 years ago

I am sorry but I do not understand your comment. Would you please re-phrase?

[-] 1 points by Someguyfromwis (41) 2 years ago

Those that control the reporting system have control over the perception of the receiver. Who depending on their trust of the system takes that information as belief.

[-] 2 points by JohnTM (25) 2 years ago

Thank you. Now I understand and agree with you.

[-] 1 points by Someguyfromwis (41) 2 years ago

Anytime.

[-] -1 points by korzib9 (80) from Newark, NJ 2 years ago

Sure. If you get large enough numbers of users you can flashmob protest anywhere anytime. It is much harder to stop than people taking over a park.

[-] 1 points by Someguyfromwis (41) 2 years ago

It is also predicated on the fact that we have a society that is democraticly active and have a strong understanding of egalitarianism and sovereignty intertwined in social participation and responibilt. Acceptance that unfortunately we acuatlly all cant own a yacht

[-] 2 points by ramous (765) from Wabash, IN 2 years ago

better yet..occupy homes where people are about to be evicted!

http://www.ajc.com/news/occupy-atlanta-comes-to-1219759.html

[-] 2 points by zygarch (83) 2 years ago

To begin with, there are already groups mobilizing to enact change. Anyone who has not already signed the following petitions, please do so:

To get money out of politics: www.getmoneyout.org

To repeal corporate "personhood": www.movetoamend.org

To bypass the two-party system, visit: www.americanselect.org

[-] 1 points by sqrltyler (207) 2 years ago

I'm all about bypassing the two party system, and getting money out of politics is my core issue, but have you looked at the leaders behind http://www.americanselect.org/ ?

It's the very definition of The Ruling Elite.

[-] 2 points by bettersystem (170) 2 years ago

We know what the problem is, let us fix it and move forward together.

When you look at a republican or democrat, congress or FDA official, Judges and Justice Department, you see criminals.

Our corruption dates back decades to when those, who in trying to preserve slavery, had to find new ways to preserve it and so created a scientific and advanced form of slavery.

Only two components were required -- the illusion of freedom & choice and the taking away of the freedom to live off the land.

How else would you get a person to submit themselves to mind numbing or degrading work unless you oppress them into it.

Our current system is rooted in corruption and every attempt in preserving it involves manipulating human thought and turning people against one another.

In America the population has been transformed into two major voting groups but they only have one choice.

They had been distracted up until now with television and American culture which prospered through the oppression of other nations.

Americans allowed themselves to be fooled into using their military and economic dominance to seize resources of other nations and create expanding markets for American profiteers.

Now that technology, competition and conscience have evolved Americans are realizing that our current system of government is damaging and unsustainable.

Our government officials have allowed private profits and personal benefits to influence decisions that affect the health and well-being of people all over the planet, not just in America... how much longer will we allow them to rule over us??

Occupy Washington and demand that all government officials resign their posts.

We will setup new online elections with a verification system that will allow us to see our votes after we cast them, put our new officials in office and work toward rebuilding our country and our world.

Pass this message along to any and everyone, unite for truth and justice. Occupy Washington DC and force change.

[-] 1 points by sqrltyler (207) 2 years ago

Excellent post.

[-] 2 points by Anarchitect (20) 2 years ago

Perhaps a Moving occupation. Stay in a different highly visible public location until moved, then occupy the next fallback position, doubling back as needed? A nomadic occupation?

[-] 1 points by Someguyfromwis (41) 2 years ago

Take only the most articulate and commited to the cause though. Remember what you said. Highly visible... public opinion sways wildly and is fickle...

[-] 1 points by sunwu18 (5) 2 years ago

Works for me, I hope others agree and we start going to public spaces where we should have the legal right to assemble.

[-] 1 points by RedJazz43 (2757) 2 years ago

Liberty Park IS the fall back position. So far efforts to occupy public parks in NYC have been unsuccessful, though I do agree that the Occupation needs a larger space. A public park is the obvious soft answer. The more obvious answer in embodied in the name of the movement. Occupy Wall Street!

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

This was a very pertinent comment.

[-] 2 points by ediblescape (235) 2 years ago

Learn from Greece to hold a referendum.

[-] 1 points by sunwu18 (5) 2 years ago

Yes! Why can't people see that a true Democracy needs to make its biggest and most important decisions by using referendums. I think it's more important to a Democracy than elections are.

[-] 0 points by betuadollar (-313) 2 years ago

Why would you do that? They're not real people.

[-] 1 points by bettersystem (170) 2 years ago

Force Change, Boycott Capitalism

We know what the problem is, let us fix it and move forward together.

When you look at a republican or democrat, congress or FDA official, Judges and Justice Department, you see criminals.

Our corruption dates back decades to when those, who in trying to preserve slavery, had to find new ways to preserve it and so created a scientific and advanced form of slavery.

Only two components were required -- the illusion of freedom & choice and the taking away of the freedom to live off the land.

How else would you get a person to submit themselves to mind numbing or degrading work unless you oppress them into it.

Our current system is rooted in corruption and every attempt in preserving it involves manipulating human thought and turning people against one another.

In America the population has been transformed into two major voting groups but they only have one choice.

They had been distracted up until now with television and American culture which prospered through the oppression of other nations.

Americans allowed themselves to be fooled into using their military and economic dominance to seize resources of other nations and create expanding markets for American profiteers.

Now that technology, competition and conscience have evolved Americans are realizing that our current system of government is damaging and unsustainable.

Our government officials have allowed private profits and personal benefits to influence decisions that affect the health and well-being of people all over the planet, not just in America... how much longer will we allow them to rule over us??

Occupy Washington and demand that all government officials resign their posts.

We will setup new online elections with a verification system that will allow us to see our votes after we cast them, put our new officials in office and work toward rebuilding our country and our world.

Pass this message along to any and everyone, we already occupy the world, unite.

Occupy Washington, Boycott Capitalism, Force Change

[-] -2 points by Richardgates (133) 2 years ago

Need help making a t-shirt. We need to draw a picture of Zooccotti Park with a cage around it. Here are some ideas: Draw a hippie climbing the cage like a monkey and throwing shit.
Draw a hippie rolling in mud and shit like a pig.
Draw a hippies fucking like dogs.
Draw a picture of a hippie eating peanuts like a big fucking elephant. Draw a hippie as a lazy fucking Ape doing nothing.

[-] 8 points by Marquee (192) 2 years ago

Folks, hasn't anyone cited the first article of the Bill of Rights? What the legal community andthe law enforcement community is doing is illegal in itself... this isn't right.

[-] -1 points by korzib9 (80) from Newark, NJ 2 years ago

Your first amendment right does not supersede the right of the property owners to their property.

[-] 1 points by Marquee (192) 2 years ago

This is true korzib, yet it does apply to public land.

[-] 0 points by korzib9 (80) from Newark, NJ 2 years ago

Zuccotti isn't public land. In addition your right to use public land isn't exclusive and has to be coordinated with the rights of other people and groups to use that land.

[-] -1 points by JPB950 (2254) 2 years ago

Where does the Bill of Rights allow you to take up residence on private property? You can assemble, but you have gone well beyond that. Just the use of the word evict would seem to indicate that OWS knows it's taken up residence, not just assembling.

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[-] 4 points by JohnHoulihan3 (4) 2 years ago

In 1955 when the African-American Civil Rights movement started, they Occupied many places. Back then they called it a demonstration, or a march, or a protest. When the government chose to evict them, many protesters chose to put the police in such a position where they had to evict by force, arresting people for doing and saying what many people thought was the right thing to be doing. This garnered attention. That attention inspired others to take steps as well. All these steps led to a change in how the powers that be used their powers, the laws that those powers created, and how society in general perceived a movement and it's people. It took dedication, nobility, and persistence, but eventually a cause was won.

[-] 1 points by MBJ (96) 2 years ago

It also took a specific agenda that earned the sympathy of a significant number of citizens.

I suspect that I'm not alone in that I sympathize with the goal of removing corporate (and union) money from politics, but I am not about to support this movement because I see it as driven by people with agendas far removed from that goal.

As this escalates, innocent lives are likely to be lost - whether a police officer just doing his job, an innocent bystander, or even a young "activist" who's just along for the ride.

It's one thing for blood to be shed in the pursuit of a truly noble idea. Quite another when the goal of the movement is not even stated.

[-] 1 points by Bymynishus (10) 2 years ago

Very true though the setting was different. They were occupying spaces both public and private. But, these were places that they were excluded from entering while it was open to most other public citizens at that very moment. I don't recall occupations of closed parks or businesses. Let alone camping in places, which would have been outright dangerous in some situations.

P.S. Speaking of the African-American Civil Rights movement, I really miss the solidarity built between the African-American and Jewish communities fostered by Rabbi Heschel and Reverend King.

[-] 2 points by Someguyfromwis (41) 2 years ago

Have you listened to MLK'S beyond Vietnam speech. That was solidarity behind an ideology that the greedy minded individual and collective greed of materialism is eroding our integrity...

[-] 1 points by JamesS89118 (646) from Las Vegas, NV 2 years ago

One of my favorite heroes occupied a bus seat. I love that strength. "Occupy the Parks, Rosa said!" (not really, obviously)

[-] 1 points by JPB950 (2254) 2 years ago

I remember reading about these marches, seems though that the protestors did just that for the most part, they marched. Assembled, walked, made speeches, made their point (and they articulated a clear concrete message), then went home until the next protest. In what percentage of the civil rights protests did people set up a tent city on private property?

[-] 0 points by JamesS89118 (646) from Las Vegas, NV 2 years ago

Loser!

a tent city on private property? fraking idiot!

[-] 0 points by JPB950 (2254) 2 years ago

Just opinion and observation James don't get so worked up, no one changes their mind about anything because of these posts. People get to vent a little and express themselves. OWS is on private property, that's a simple fact. Even when these encampments are in public parks, they still deny the public the use for which the park was intended. It was an inaccurate and weak comparison to civil rights anyhow.

[-] 1 points by JamesS89118 (646) from Las Vegas, NV 2 years ago

Troll!

"OWS is on private property" Link one street address.

"they [the public] still deny the public the use for which the park was intended" Pretzels are more logical.

Be thankful you don't have student loans.

[-] 1 points by JPB950 (2254) 2 years ago

We can all be thankful for a lot of things, do you have a point in there somewhere that relates to the actual topic? Are you saying you don't believe Zuccotti Park is privately owned publicly accessible park in front of One Liberty Plaza? Time to end my half of this then and move on.

[-] 4 points by Marquee (192) 2 years ago

If I interpret the first article in the Bill of Rights correctly (and I do), the OWS movement shall not be infringed upon in any way. City, State and or county laws or ordinances can NOT take away from or in any way diminish this Bill nor the Articles of this Bill. Nevertheless, Governors and Mayors across America are doing just that and getting away with it. This must not be allowed to continue.

[-] 2 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 2 years ago

Over two centuries of legislation and case law have firmly established that the government has the authority to limit speech as long as it's done in a content-neutral way, which includes requiring permits for protests. So you are not correctly interpreting the First Amendment. No.

[-] 2 points by ramous (765) from Wabash, IN 2 years ago

yeah but you're not reading it for the infringing that ows might be doing to others. When you keep a lady from walking her dog in the park or kids can't play in it, then we have violated their rights. When we block traffic, we violate the rights of the guy who wants to drive to see his mom in the hospital. When we block the doors of a business, we violate the rights of the owner to make money to feed his family. We are guaranteed the right to peaceably assemble, but as soon as we step on someone else's rights doing it, then it is no longer peaceable, but disrupts the peace of others. Lets no mistake, we are in civil disobedience. People are understanding of our cause, but if we step on their rights too much, they will turn on us, and we need the good will of the majority if we are going to grow.

[-] 1 points by JPB950 (2254) 2 years ago

I wonder if it will ever get to a judge. In the end that's the opinion that counts. If a court interprets the right to assemble as meaning you can camp out anywhere you like then you're right, if the judge throws it out of court then you're wrong

[-] 0 points by betuadollar (-313) 2 years ago

I tell you what, if the court interprets it that way then I'm not sleeping in the park on my next cross country trip - I'm taking over a whole city block and camping right in the middle of the street. And then inviting all to join me for one hellacious party.

[-] 0 points by JenLynn (692) 2 years ago

You really think it means you can just walk into someplace and live there?

[-] 1 points by mserfas (652) from Ashland, PA 2 years ago

Well, that's the problem OWS has stumbled into: homelessness is illegal. Every town is in a war with every other to push the poor out by any means possible. The question is, can OWS set a precedent to change that, which actually recognizes to all people, whether homeless by choice or for a cause, some basic right to live somewhere? It is a worthy cause.

[-] 1 points by Someguyfromwis (41) 2 years ago

It would be nice to hear the movement support egalitarian values. One s that take everyones needs seriously. Including the wealthy and poor. Approaching topics of serious discussion on even terms is inclusive. Those that resist ideas that ultimately help everyone regardless of economic social political status should be ostracized. Simply.put. try solving some real world problems to add legitimacy to what ur trying to do here. EVERYONE IS ALLOWED SHELTER BY RIGHT. the fact that NO ONE WAS BORN INTO THIS WORLD BY THEIR CHOICE. life choices need not matter here. Remember egalitarian values. This is the most simplistic. Approach to solving this problem pertaining to a place to stay.

[-] 1 points by JenLynn (692) 2 years ago

So it's a sort of relativistic set of morals. Someone needs property to do something they believe is good so they just take it? The homeless issue is a distraction, they weren't part of the equation when this started nor were they mentioned in it the original point in the post. OWS hasn't come out as an advocate for the homeless to stay there, they seem to act as though the park is theirs by some right. They are talking about it as eviction, a word that stirs up being thrown from their home, a home they have simply appropriated from someone else.

[-] 1 points by Concerned (455) 2 years ago

And in fact, they are directing the homeless and vagrants to the homeless shelters when they find them in the food line.....so to now make this in any way their standing up for the rights of homeless is well...complete hypocrisy.

[-] 1 points by mserfas (652) from Ashland, PA 2 years ago

See 13,400 results for https://www.google.com/search?sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&site=&source=hp&q=%22homeless+evicted%22&btnG=Search - I dare say the word "eviction" has been used before in this sense.

I do recognize that there are other people who might use Zucotti Park, but I haven't heard anyone come out and say that OWS has truly prevented them from using it according to their wont. From the pictures I've seen it looks like there are wide spaces for dog walkers and joggers and such; am I missing something?

[-] 1 points by zapatoloco (1) 2 years ago

I think thats how America came to exist, people showed up and said: "hey we're gonna live here" At least the Wall Street occupiers didn't have to anihilate the previous inhabitants...

[-] 2 points by JenLynn (692) 2 years ago

Trying to be serious, not make easy jokes. The point was the meaning of the first amendment, not the tendency of one group to invade another.

[-] 1 points by cmt (1195) from Tolland, CT 2 years ago

Sit-ins at segregated lunch counters were illegal. Purpose and method matter.

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[-] 0 points by JenLynn (692) 2 years ago

Now now, don't be hasty with your criticism. I was on point and not deliberately inflammatory. I'm just disagreeing with his interpretation of the amendment, not trolling. Don't be so defensive.

[-] 1 points by JamesS89118 (646) from Las Vegas, NV 2 years ago

I hope I wasn't being defensive!

What better reply can there be to your utter nonsense statement that someone or ANYONE has EVER recommended or actually committed "just walk into someplace and live there"? In connection with OWS obviously, right?

Your one sentence statement deserved no more than a one word billing.

Read, I'll help you out a little. Trolls write nonsense. That is to say, the words trolls put together do not have cites or logic.

"You really think it means you can just walk into someplace and live there?" No cite and absurd (not logical).

Don't have any student loans, eh?

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[-] 1 points by groobiecat2 (746) from Brattleboro, VT 2 years ago

You are a troll with nothing better to do than tear down others willing to fight for their rights. Now run along; don't you have a tea party or Cain fundraiser to attend?

[-] -1 points by lentri21 (14) 2 years ago

At least I am a troll that understands the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and common law.

[-] 0 points by JPB950 (2254) 2 years ago

There don't seem to be many here that understand the difference between an assembly and a communal residence. Unfortunately this movement seems to think taking ownership of someone else's property is somehow guaranteed by the first amendment. If only I had known my rights, I went and actually bought a house (one that I could afford too).

[-] 1 points by JamesS89118 (646) from Las Vegas, NV 2 years ago

Loser!

[-] 3 points by whatsleft (4) 2 years ago

Many of you sound like lawyers, making narrow, parsing, academic arguments. This is civil disobedience. It is by definition illegal. This is a fight with a larger, higher purpose - not a baby's game. It will get messy, in more than one way. Be ready. And steadfast.

[-] 1 points by korzib9 (80) from Newark, NJ 2 years ago

The civil disobedience justification for breaking the law presumes that you have no legitimate means within the system to effect change. This claim is patently false. In addition, the civil disobedience justification for breaking the law presumes that your goals and objectives will make a positive impact. This is unclear as your goals and objectives are undefined.

[-] 1 points by whatsleft (4) 2 years ago

"Legitimate" means to affect change do, in fact, exist: organizing, boycotting, and voting for changes to the law that will protect those lower down the income and wealth scale. But while these basic means have, thankfully, always existed, they have not been used broadly, which is why such injustice exists in the first place. Obviously, it will take something very dramatic to awaken people to the fact that they have power and should use it immediately to make change. So, civilly disobey like crazy my friends. The time has come.

[-] 1 points by QueensObserver (3) 2 years ago

There are means within the system to effect change, however, those means are largely controlled by the system. Depending on the type of change we are talking about - and here we are debating a major overhaul of both the system and certain paradigms (e.g. corporations should have a moral imperative not just a profit imperative) -- it can require a massive amount of energy, participation and coordination to effect that change. Keeping in mind that the system will seek to self preserve, by making it as difficult for you to change it as possible. The more sweeping the change sought the harder the system will fight to suppress you, and we are clearly seeing that. So the CD rationale offered here is not patently false. By limiting access to, as well as the scope and effect of the "legitimate" means of changing the system [I'll leave that definitional debate to someone else], the system ironically causes CD to become one of the few effective ways to gain the attention, energy and motivation needed to mobilize the millions of people needed to effect such massive change. Though granted, CD by itself leads nowhere and your comments at the top of this section about planning for the next phase is I think quite right. But what is trying to be accomplished here is a major systemic change and that requires some level of CD to convince both the powers that be and potential new followers that the movement is serious, committed and willing to follow through.

[-] 2 points by Concerned (455) 2 years ago

QueensObserver, very valid points. However, you really get to the truth of things when you mention "potential new followers". At issue for me is this all inclusive slogan that "We are the 99%" implying that everyone in the 99% is part of this movement and supports its lack of clearly stated goals. That is obviously not the case or you would not have had the "We are the 53%" movement in response.

those who marched for civil rights had clear goals in mind - desegregation and equal opportunity for employment, housing, and education.

This movement has anarchists, socialists, communists, those who want advocate violence, those who advocate peaceful CD, those who advocate mass defaulting on mortgages and student loans, those who advocate the seizure of buildings and so on.

those folks do NOT represent me.

[-] 1 points by JamesS89118 (646) from Las Vegas, NV 2 years ago

Who invited the rational one? Keep typing, I like what I'm reading!

[-] 3 points by johannaclearfield (7) 2 years ago

the whole world is watching

[-] 1 points by pinker (586) 2 years ago

Except for the 1.6 billion who live without electricity.

[-] 1 points by JamesS89118 (646) from Las Vegas, NV 2 years ago

and participating : ) Peace

[-] -2 points by FreeMarkets (272) 2 years ago

and scoffing

[-] 3 points by lovespaceship (6) 2 years ago

Let's Occupy Bloomberg since our votes does not count anyway anymore.

[-] 2 points by JamesS89118 (646) from Las Vegas, NV 2 years ago

Well, that was kind of obvious when Bloomberg illegally ran for a third term. lol

[-] 0 points by korzib9 (80) from Newark, NJ 2 years ago

Bloomberg got elected fair and square. Now you don't like democracy?

[-] 2 points by llf (144) 2 years ago

He bought the election and bought a change in the law so he could run for a third term--and everyone including him, knows that. Only idiots fool themselves into believing that they really "voted" for the local billionaire...Advertising 101 and you ate it...In fact, given his fortune, it was kind of cheap to buy those rugged independent New Yorkers...He was laughing at stupid New Yorkers and how cheaply they could be bought...but I guess it is not fun any more...

[-] 0 points by korzib9 (80) from Newark, NJ 2 years ago

The law got changed via referendum - how much more direct democracy do you get than that?

Bloomberg is a good mayor. He got reelected because he actually does a good job and usually has an approval rating of 50+%.

[-] 3 points by yoss33 (269) 2 years ago

I signed up for this place just to say i think someone should try and remove spam a bit better. It's unnecessary, distracting and sloppy looking, if someone has the time to do it anyways. And to "pseudocop" down below, anti-semiticism is what we need to gtfo of this movement immediately,if it even exists other than from provacateurs and the odd racist, but i wonder at comments sometimes like yours, almost seems a little suspicious to me... if you know what i'm saying..

As for the article, i would also put out there that remember what happened in Egypt with the internet being taken down by the Government. Also keep in mind what Homeland security has said recently. I'm saying if it isn't already in the works, someone should think about alternative/backup routes to keep in communication if it should come to that.

[-] 2 points by JamesS89118 (646) from Las Vegas, NV 2 years ago

Ironically, the State Dept developed an Internet/Cellphone suitcase for the Arabs in the spring. Bet we will never see one in our streets.

[-] 0 points by korzib9 (80) from Newark, NJ 2 years ago

This explains the increase in the spam I get claiming that they need my help to get Mubarak's millions out of Switzerland.

[-] 2 points by Socrates469bc (608) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Re: spam: Vote, Vote, click on the up or down arrows on the upper left corner of a post

[-] 1 points by jomojo (562) 2 years ago

I like the OWS working on communication. FM could answer the no amplified speech problem for ex. I guess it might be handy to alert an eviction was beginning.

[-] -1 points by pseudocop (11) 2 years ago

No, I don't know what you're saying, care to elaborate?

[-] 4 points by cmt (1195) from Tolland, CT 2 years ago

To the left of each post are two little grey arrow things. If you like a post, click on the top one. If you dislike a post, click on the bottom one.

Posts that get a lot of positive hits get put in the upper right corner of the forum page for a while, so more people get a chance to go and read them.

[-] 1 points by yoss33 (269) 2 years ago

yes, i'm saying, in case you missed it the first time, that we need to get anti-semitism out of the movement. I am also saying that i have lingering suspicions that your post and posts like yours have ulterior motives. What ulterior motives? a) to make the movement look bad, and something other than it is and distract away from that, and b) to attempt incite hatred and/or violence within the movement. Maybe you are just simply a racist, but maybe you are an enemy to the true spirit of Occupy, and i think anyone blindly and blatantly spouting out hateful messages on the internet or on the street should be assumed to be the latter unless it can otherwise be proven. My opinion.

[-] 0 points by pseudocop (11) 2 years ago

So much for freedom of speech- in your "opinion". Like so many leftist it's clear that for you freedom of speech only exists within certain narrow dogma approved barriers and anything outside this is "hateful".

To ignore that the Jews are overwhelmingly represented in the group of criminals that have looted and destroyed our economy while being abeted by the Jews that run the government and media is pathetic.

A rumor is not a rumor if it does not die.

[-] 1 points by yoss33 (269) 2 years ago

Feel free to your opinion, which i don't agree with, and i still say is racist and and hateful and has no place at Occupy. That is my opinion.

[-] 3 points by mamakv45 (2) 2 years ago

be safe and stay together ! thank you to all that OCCUPY !

[-] 1 points by JamesS89118 (646) from Las Vegas, NV 2 years ago

Attitude of gratitude!

[-] 2 points by BreadLandPeace (359) 2 years ago

Not directly related to Zuccotti Park, but I saw on online news article today that Occupiers in Atlanta have moved their tents outside the house of a family that's scheduled to be evicted in a foreclosure on Monday. I'd love for that to become a standard response to threatened evictions--a huge crowd of occupiers vocally opposing the eviction and sending it live on video across the world to expose how the 1% treat the American people.

Especially if they're poor and/or nonwhite. This particular family is black, and live in a black neighborhood. What percent of that one percent, by the way, are nonwhite? Probably not many, and for a reason.

It would be great if people in danger of being evicted could call on a local OWS to support them. These ruthless evictions cannot be allowed to continue, certainly not without mass, vocal, publicity-grabbing opposition. Make it too expensive politically for a bank to get away with these barbaric foreclosures.

[-] 1 points by ramous (765) from Wabash, IN 2 years ago

I like this!!! can we keep people from being thrown out? we can not be moved from our public spaces we have claimed, why should a family be thrown out and moved? occupy our homes!! can you find the link to the atlanta news article and make a new post about it?

[-] 1 points by BreadLandPeace (359) 2 years ago

Would you be able to please create the new post? Here are two links, which both have videos. The Rorey family live in Snellville, GA. The husband's a police officer who contacted Occupy Atlanta asking for help. The Roreys have two school-aged children. They were making all their mortgage payments until someone scammed them into unknowingly participating in some scheme that got them in trouble, so that now they're facing eviction.

Occupy Atlanta has moved tents outside the Rorey’s house to support them. In the first article, the announcer states that Georgia has the fourth highest rate of foreclosures in the country.

The great news (and I'm sure it's because of the bad publicity the bank's gotten as a result of OWS getting involved) is that some official says nothing's going to happen right now, the eviction's on hold, all the paperwork's still tied up in the courts. That's just what needs to happen, foreclosure proceedings going nowhere, because there's too much vocal and visible opposition. Great job Atlanta OWS!!!!

I also wanted to mention that OWS, while it can't solve millions of people's financial problems (at least, not yet--it's not even two months old!), can give people the courage to fight back. Sometimes that might be all it takes, because apparently these mortgages are so messed up, the paperwork fraudulent, etc., etc. that the banks may in fact not have the legal authority to repossess a house.

I was thinking particularly of the kids in a family facing eviction, and how kindly OWS supporters could help them infinitely by being kind, soothing them, reading to them, playing ball--nothing earthshaking, but conveying that their family's not alone, that people care about them. Especially for kids who are too young to understand, for example, what a mortgage is and what's happening to their family, it could be terrifying to think of losing their home.

Thanks again for your wonderful enthusiasm, and isn't it incredible what OWS is doing!

http://duluth.patch.com/articles/as-a-family-faces-foreclosure-occupy-atlanta-shows-support#photo-8379204

http://www.cbsatlanta.com/story/15982215/some-occupy-atlanta-protesters-focusing-on-snellville-familys-eviction

[-] 1 points by BreadLandPeace (359) 2 years ago

Sure, I'd like to, thanks for the encouragement. But I don't know how to create a new post, if you could please let me know. I just thought of something: although OWS really isn't in a position to take in all the people who are getting evicted due to foreclosures, that could be a powerful publicity campaign and maybe a way to help people who are in shock from losing their home. OWS could make a standing invitation to anyone who's being evicted to stay at their local encampment. Most evictees aren't going to take OWS up on the offer, but the offer by a compassionate community to help--with food, emotional support, possibly referrals to permanent places to live--that would be a beautiful way for OWS to both oppose the evictions; tie in the foreclosures with the main OWS message; give people hope; and possibly even make it too expensive politically for the banks and local politicians to be able to carry out an eviction. Sorry this is so wordy, and I'll go look for the article.

[-] 2 points by RedJazz43 (2757) 2 years ago

As for any phase two of the movement, I'd day that has to wait until OWS becomes a real mass movement, which, in a nation of 300 million, is a long way off. Once 4 or 5 million people at least are Occupying then, maybe we can just begin to talk about a next phase.

[-] 2 points by TumonChief (2) 2 years ago

The mayor represents the corrupted and immoral elements of the "1%".

[-] 2 points by NonParticipant (151) 2 years ago

OWS are not residents of Liberty Park. You are squatters, living off other's donations and public utilities. You are a drain on the city and its resources.

[-] 1 points by llf (144) 2 years ago

How long did it take you to think that one? And you did it all by yourself?

[-] 1 points by bubul (18) 2 years ago

What public utilities are they even using? Brookfield shut off the power to the outlets in the park on day 1.

[-] 1 points by Rkw40more (29) 2 years ago

The workers to clean the area, the police to patrol keep you and others safe?

[-] 1 points by breaker (6) 2 years ago

Who cares, they are my heros, I would be there if I didn't have to work to feed my children. One day soon we need all 99% to walk out their door (or whatever) and march the streets! Why do you feel anyone can own a part of the Earth anyway?

[-] 0 points by NonParticipant (151) 2 years ago

Because I have the piece of paper that says so.

[-] 0 points by breaker (6) 2 years ago

Produced by a corrupt and now illegal government, but hey, whatever floats your boat.

[-] 1 points by Bymynishus (10) 2 years ago

I don't know about the illegal government part. We could get into some deep technical and moral arguments over what governments are legal. And I certainly don't the US government is illegal or should be abolished. The corruption though, sure, that exists everywhere to some extent. I would agree that it's rather excessive in our culture right now.

[-] 0 points by NonParticipant (151) 2 years ago

Well, thank you for your permission in allowing me to float my boat as I like.

[-] 2 points by risess (2) 2 years ago

No one is taking care of the plants.. There are tents on them and people walking on the dirt/plant area. No clear pathways near the stairs. OWS needs to make sure safety is upheld and the park is kept up! I support OWS but it needs to make sure that everyone respects the park.

[-] 0 points by korzib9 (80) from Newark, NJ 2 years ago

People over plants!

[-] 1 points by Rkw40more (29) 2 years ago

That comment could be seen that the value of your views and decisions are more important than those of the plants to thrive. Seems comparable to the 1% thinking their views and decisions are more important than the 99%????

Respect the plants!

[-] 2 points by risess (2) 2 years ago

No one is taking care of the plants.. There are tents on them and people walking on the dirt/plant area. No clear pathways near the stairs. OWS needs to make sure safety is upheld and the park is kept up! I support OWS but it needs to make sure that everyone respects the park.

[-] 2 points by SocratesPhilosophy (231) 2 years ago

I propose a philosophy for the OWS movement that can unite all.

Anti-Corruptionist: a person who engages in or upholds anti corruption practices, esp. in politics or public life.

[-] 1 points by between (2) 2 years ago

but who decides whats corrupt and what isn't

[-] 2 points by SocratesPhilosophy (231) 2 years ago

Law...

Things like:

Jefferson County Alabama

Money laundering for Mexican drug cartels.

Intentionally and knowingly peddling crap loans

Filing over 100,000 known perjured affidavits

And selling crap CDOs as "good investments".


But the definition of the word says it all.

Corruption: Dishonest or fraudulent conduct by those in power, typically involving bribery.

[-] 1 points by lentri21 (14) 2 years ago

Yeah! Or...

Eric Holder (Operation Gun Runner) and The White House & Department of Energy (Solyndra and other "green energy" grants)

[-] 1 points by SocratesPhilosophy (231) 2 years ago

Change "or" to "and" then I agree.

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6287) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

Corruptionist. That's a good word. Did you make that up?

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6287) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

Man, I'm going to have to update my dictionary (and spellchecker).

[-] 2 points by Socrates469bc (608) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Evict 1 percenter Mayor Bloomberg!!

Vote him out of office

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[-] 2 points by SocratesPhilosophy (231) 2 years ago

Hate speech does nothing to help the movement nor did one race alone put us in the position we are in, the corruption in the government comes in all shape, size and color.

[-] 1 points by Socrates469bc (608) from New York, NY 2 years ago

I agree. I have lived across the globe, and I can say first hand there there are good and bad people everywhere.

[-] 1 points by SocratesPhilosophy (231) 2 years ago

Nice screen name :)

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[-] 1 points by thebeck (1) 2 years ago

I recently went thru a eviction. I received eviction defense from a great a great company that was able to use multiple motions to delay the eviction for over 7 months in California. What I dont understand is how so many people are being taken advantage of by wrongful foreclosure. Why are these banks not being governed and where is the regulatory agencies to protect are rights . While working with David Christian at California Document Services he explained to me a great deal of information from his experience. These banks need to be held responsible! I surely do appreciate staying in my home for additional time.

[-] 1 points by mikesfreedomblog (3) 2 years ago

The Authorities only know one thing, the use of force by their Stormtroopers, against anyone and anything which threatens the status quo. Teargas and stun guns!The Gestapo are coming to defend the 1%

[-] 1 points by LittleJohn (3) 2 years ago

You need to be more proactive when they come to raid you. Police have the advantage of training and discipline. You need to overcome these advantages. The only way you will be able to do so is by preventing them from coordinating the raid. I am not going to post something that can get me into trouble on a public webpage, but there are plenty of ways to disrupt wireless (UHF/VHF/Cell) communications. Also, if the dispatch center is bogged down, it will make it impossible to relay orders. Its time OWS take a more hands on approach before everyone gets evicted. We are seeing evictions happening all over the country because the powers that be are getting scared that we might succeed. They know that an impending civil war is on the horizon, something we are seeing happen all over the world. If the people in this country would just stand up like they are doing all over the world, they would have to give in or risk total social collapse. Right now they think they can squash this movement and by the looks of things they may be correct. The time will come [and soon] that people need to decide if freedom is worth fighting for, lust like our forefathers did so long ago. Just remember, the police are part of the 99% even if they don't think they are or act that way. I fully believe if push comes to shove PD will walk away or stand beside us, but there has to be a compelling argument. The only way that will happen is if they realize they are fighting on the loosing side of the battle and supporting people who are using them as pawns. I hope all of you are prepared for whats to come, because the saying is true: Freedom isn't free.

[-] 1 points by shifty2 (117) 2 years ago

Has anyone read the new comon sence and if yes what did you think of it, I personaly enjoyed reading it and think most of it is well thought out and makes good sence, let's get all the protester's to read it and vote on wheather or not to act on it. How come a ball game can draw 100,000 people and somethink zas important as this can only draw a few thousand, Look's like most people aren't interested. You need people to police your rank's and turn the people causing trouble over to the police so people will feel safer and to show that you are truly peacefull

[-] 1 points by johnnyapple (15) 2 years ago

How about we all focus on getting all Government appointed officials, from our local City, County, State, Mayors to Governors and all their elected cabinets, all the way up to and including the Federal Government, Congress, Senators’, Obama and his cabinet take, a 10% cut in their outlandish salaries and freeze their raises for the next two years!!! This would make a serious impact on our economy, Christ maybe even balance the budget!!!! They all keep talking about cutting into our very needed social and educational programs, but no mention on their lavish life styles.

[-] 1 points by mickydees (13) 2 years ago

I vote for stephen colbert to lead the movement

[-] 1 points by Johnmn718 (1) 2 years ago

Do Not give up the fight that is what the 1% wants. Start organizing now we need to flood the park with all the unions and everyone we can and stand up as a whole. If this become occupy WWW the fight is lost!

[-] 1 points by OccupyVictoria (1) 2 years ago

One thing that will move this forward. Build a worldwide connection with all Occupy Movements. Once the organization of these movements with Global movements takes place & at the same time for each initiative...then the POWER of this World Revolution will be felt! Let TRUTH be heard and change happen. I would Love to be apart of helping unite the Movements so that this uprising on Wall Street can be the Power it's meant to be.

Cheers from Victoria, Allan Nott

[-] 1 points by unitedwe (78) 2 years ago

i, like, yelled at people in a park in 1968...never finished college...bitched in the 70's...took a few odd jobs in the 80's...tried christianity, then buddhism again, then wicca, then chrsitinity again...drank some more...tried to kill myself. Now, I think I can offer you guidance, even though my peers from '68 control me because i am a weak failure and still blame others for my issues.

[-] 1 points by Misenka1457 (45) 2 years ago

If zucotti gets down we will need to get to them from other places but still conduct marches on Wall Street even if it means commuting there! And we will need to scale protest through Washington and through the internet, forever until changes we need, are passed!

[-] 1 points by ramous (765) from Wabash, IN 2 years ago

Just to be clear. peaceful assembly does not equal forceful occupation. We are forcefully occupying. so far the cities are being really good about working with us so we can get the message out by occupying. But its real fine line we are walking, and when one too many citizens gets pissed they can't use their park that we took, or they can't drive down a road to visit their mom in the hospital, we're going to have to understand that we started this. Lets be clear, we are breaking the law. Not that we should stop, but we should stop whining about people wont let us break the law. And just do it, just occupy, knowing that we are. Don't rationalize the occupation as lawful. Its not. But we might just might be doing the most moral thing anyone's done in decades.

[-] 1 points by L3employee (63) 2 years ago

OK, I want to help, but I'm nowhere near New York, who do I call? or E-mail?

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

17th-century English, philosopher John Locke discussed natural rights in his work, identifying them as being "life, liberty, and estate (property)",

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_and_legal_rights

[-] 1 points by Violetarojo (119) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

You are assuming that everyone has a cell phone. I do not use phone service at all, not land or cell. Can you set up a petition at change.org?

[-] 1 points by rararoadrunner (2) 2 years ago

Half a world away, something is being prepared that may directly affect you.

On the one hand, there is concern that the Israelis are preparing to attack Iran: they have done this before, and, as before, (please see http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2011/11/04/u-s-concerned-israel-could-strike-iran/ ) the US Government is publicly distancing itself from such a possibility...

...On the other hand, the Guardian reported, on the same day as the Oakland General Strike, that the UK is preparing for joint operations with the US against Iranian targets ( please see http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/nov/02/uk-military-iran-attack-nuclear ): in response to this, the Iranians affirmed that they would respond robustly to any attack.

Given that the Iranian forces are fully capable of massive regional retaliation, including destruction of the US Fifth Fleet (the USDOD has known this since 2002), why would the US and Israeli governments put their forces, civilians, and everyone else in harm's way?

For the Israeli government, the answer is simple: they would do anything, including commit nuclear aggression against Iran, to deny the Palestinians a sovereign state.

In the case of the US government...the target is us, the 99%: "Operation Endgame," ostensibly aimed at ending illegal immigration ( please see http://cryptogon.com/docs/endgame.pdf ) would be set in motion against us, against you...and indeed the end of any pretense of government of, by, and for the people would end.

I'm posting this on the discussion of possible evictions because a US/Israeli attack against Iran, by destroying any hope of economic recovery (especially in the wake of a massive dump of US dollars and euros) would so galvanize both support of, and opposition to (probably from the "Tea Party") the #Occupy movement that the government of, by, and for the 1% would remove us, remove you, to detention sites that have been prepared for us.

What is to be done?

The first thing is to be aware of this possibility: forewarned is forearmed.

The second thing is to strengthen ties to the unions in order that they can respond to any move in the above-predicted direction with a massive, national (or even international) general strike.

Finally: these are years lit with lightning: be prepared to rapidly shift strategies and tactics, if the anticipated move toward fascist state-capitalism does indeed take place at the expense of what is left of our freedom and our lives.

Prepare for the coming struggle!

[-] 1 points by Suley02man (8) 2 years ago

Agreed permalink - but on even broader terms. I would DESPERATELY like to see OWS-North, dispatch teams to (Atlanta, Tampa Bay Area, Miami, etc.). I want to see my comrades safe and protected from the elements. You can re-group, re-charge, recruit and strategize down here just as well. In turn, we could use an INFUSION of your passion, intensity and above all - experience! It's worth a try; at least on a small scale. We need you guys! I am a New Yorker and I know what our energy can do. We need the NUMBERS - you need a vacation ;) Open invitation to OWS: (Albany, NYC, NJ, Philly, Boston, CT, MA, VT, ME, et al. Come!

[-] 1 points by Suley02man (8) 2 years ago

Agreed permalink - but on even broader terms. I would DESPERATELY like to see OWS-North, dispatch teams to (Atlanta, Tampa Bay Area, Miami, etc.). I want to see my comrades safe and protected from the elements. You can re-group, re-charge, recruit and strategize down here just as well. In turn, we could use an INFUSION of your passion, intensity and above all - experience! It's worth a try; at least on a small scale. We need you guys! I am a New Yorker and I know what our energy can do. We need the NUMBERS - you need a vacation ;) Open invitation to OWS: (Albany, NYC, NJ, Philly, Boston, CT, MA, VT, ME, et al. Come!

[-] 1 points by joanno (33) from Syracuse, NY 2 years ago

Any attempt been made to purchase Zucotti? Expensive piece of property I'm sure...but I'm also sure the 99% could put together the funds to make it happen. Having a People's Plaza at Wall Street's door would send a powerful, long term message.

[-] 1 points by pigeonlady (141) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

I was there yesterday, Thursday Nov 3rd, to be supportive by my presence. In the process of listening to one individual, One officer remarked I couldn't stand there. An Anglo community affairs male officer came over and politely asked me - 'WHICH SIDE ARE YOU ON?' 'Excuse me??' I said, unable to believe my ears. "Which side are you on? Because when we come in there and arrest people....you might want to move over there, so you don't....' I stated that I had observed that they wanted to keep the walkway clear, and asked if the three firetrucks were going to hose them down, meaning those within the park and he said 'No, no'. He said something else wanting me to 'commit' and I said 'With them'. So he said to ask and they'd make room for me. This can be verified by asking the guy with the face tattooos and cowboy hat, and the guy with the white tshirt who was standing with them. They had said 'She can stand where she wants' and 'they're bothering a crippled lady' and told them to leave me alone. I'm the one with the arthritis and neuromuscular damage and the broken wheelchair I use like a walker. Several times after that the police told me I couldn't stand there, that I was obstructing the sidewalk, move along. This was directed at me when i couldn't move due to others (mostly white yuppies) obstructing ME. This goes with the mayor's distaste and outright DISCRIMINATION AGAINST THE HANDICAPPED. THE CITY SHOUD FACILITATE MY ATTENDANCE!! NOT OBSTRUCT IT!! WHERE IS THE HANDICAPPED 'WALKING LANE' ON BROADWAY?? WHY IS MY 'SIDE' IMPORTANT? DOES THIS MAKE ME EVEN MORE OF A NONENTITY IN THE ADMINISTRATION'S EYES THAN I ALREADY AM? FYI - the mayor's office for people with disabilities does NOTHING. The majority of disability services are a sham. The only thing they do is give a couple phone numbers where more people claim they can't help and good luck. With budget cuts as an excuse VESID/ACCES only promises a minimum wage job and no longer tries to get people off assistance. I am 48 and spent 4 years trying to get service from this system; ironically, the physically disabled are not considered as advantageous to help as the mentally disabled. And now I am being discriminated against in where to stand. Physically and metaphorically. The beginning is near. Nunquam non paratus.

[-] 1 points by sunwu18 (5) 2 years ago

We need to remain a community with intensive communication via internet. Also, if we are evicted from Liberty Park we should find other places (public spaces?) to occupy and march on Wall Street and other corrupt institutions on a regular basis.

[-] 1 points by RedJazz43 (2757) 2 years ago

Huh? No longer occupy these spaces on a full time basis? Whatta ya mean? Is or is not the slogan "Occupy EVERYTHING and never give it up" serious or not? If you want a time limit on the Occupation I'd say September 17, 3011 as it may take 1000 years to fundamentally transform the social system democratically from below. After all that's about how long the complete transition from feudalism to capitalism took.

[-] 1 points by Wolfeman (8) 2 years ago

can I get an email alert?

If so, how?

Don't have text capability.

[-] 1 points by shizzle08 (119) 2 years ago

Occupy cities! Not parks! Fill Wall Street to the brim with marchers, be on the doorstep of every investment bank, on every street corner, at every state capital! Make yourselves visible and be heard! Broadcasting from the squares and open spaces all over the country will get attention! Welcome open dialogue, debate, and peaceful demonstration!

[-] 1 points by owsisajoke1 (9) 2 years ago

FINALLLY! FINISH THIS NYPD no need for people with mental issues to continue with their nonsense....let 99% be the 99% and not have few thousand jokers speak for the masses!

[-] 1 points by owsisajoke1 (9) 2 years ago

FINALLLY! FINISH THIS NYPD no need for people with mental issues to continue with their nonsense....let 99% be the 99% and not have few thousand jokers speak for the masses!

[-] 1 points by ModestCapitalist (2342) 2 years ago

The ugly truth. America's wealth is STILL being concentrated. When the rich get too rich, the poor get poorer. These latest figures prove it. AGAIN.

According to the Social Security Administration, 50 percent of U.S. workers made less than $26,364 in 2010. In addition, those making less than $200,000, or 99 percent of Americans, saw their earnings fall by $4.5 billion collectively. The sobering numbers were a far cry from what was going on for the richest one percent of Americans.

The incomes of the top one percent of the wage scale in the U.S. rose in 2010; and their collective wage earnings jumped by $120 billion. In addition, those earning at least $1 million a year in wages, which is roughly 93,000 Americans, reported payroll income jumped 22 percent from 2009. Overall, the economy has shed 5.2 million jobs since the start of the Great Recession in 2007. It’s the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression in the 1930’s.

Another word about the first Great Depression. It really was a perfect storm. Caused almost entirely by greed. First, there was unprecedented economic growth. There was a massive building spree. There was a growing sense of optimism and materialism. There was a growing obsession for celebrities. The American people became spoiled, foolish, naive, brainwashed, and love-sick. They were bombarded with ads for one product or service after another. Encouraged to spend all of their money as if it were going out of style. Obscene profits were hoarded at the top. In 1928, the rich were already way ahead. Still, they were given huge tax breaks. All of this represented a MASSIVE transfer of wealth from poor to rich. Executives, entrepreneurs, developers, celebrities, and share holders. By 1929, America's wealthiest 1 percent had accumulated around 40% of all United States wealth. The upper class held around 30%. The middle and lower classes were left to share the rest. When the majority finally ran low on money to spend, profits declined and the stock market crashed.

Of course, the rich threw a fit and started cutting jobs. They would stop at nothing to maintain their disgusting profit margins and ill-gotten obscene levels of wealth as long as possible. The small business owners did what they felt necessary to survive. They cut more jobs. The losses were felt primarily by the little guy. This created a domino effect. The middle class shrunk drastically and the lower class expanded. With less wealth in reserve and active circulation, banks failed by the hundreds. More jobs were cut. Unemployment reached 25% in 1933. The worst year of the Great Depression. Those who were employed had to settle for much lower wages. Millions went cold and hungry. The recovery involved a massive infusion of new currency, a World War, and higher taxes on the rich. With so many men in the service, so many women on the production line, and those higher taxes to help pay for it, the lions share of United States wealth was gradually transfered back to the middle class. This redistribution of wealth continued until the mid seventies. This was the recovery. A massive redistribution of wealth.   Then it began to concentrate all over again. Here we are 35 years later. The richest one percent now own well over 40 percent of all US wealth. The lower 90 percent own less than 10 percent of all US wealth. This is true even after taxes, welfare, financial aid, and charity. It is the underlying cause.   No redistribution. No recovery.

The government won't step in and do what's necessary. Not this time. It's up to us. Support small business more and big business less. Support the little guy more and the big guy less. It's tricky but not impossible. No redistribution. No recovery.

Those of you who agree on these major issues are welcome to summarize this post, copy it, link to it, save it, show a friend, or spread the word in any fashion. Most major cities have daily call-in talk radio shows. You can reach thousands of people at once. They should know the ugly truth. Be sure to quote the figures which prove that America's wealth is still being concentrated. I don't care who takes the credit. We are up against a tiny but very powerful minority who have more influence on the masses than any other group in history. They have the means to reach millions at once with outrageous political and commercial propaganda. Those of us who speak the ugly truth must work incredibly hard just to be heard.

[-] 1 points by pfolman (28) from Long Beach, CA 2 years ago

We need to occupy MERS and get a bailout for underwater homeowners who got screwed by the banksters !

[-] 1 points by pfolman (28) from Long Beach, CA 2 years ago

The most precise comment that captured my thoughts exactely came from Matt Taibbi on KO: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSPjvnreNIw

[-] 1 points by VoterMarch (34) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Tried text and got message that "message failed shortcut may have expired"??

[-] 1 points by eccupi (4) 2 years ago

I believe such an action by the mayor would actually work to the advantage of the movement. I see protests sprouting up in local parks, inspiring even larger protests that move (not that I support the action, it is illegal).

[-] 1 points by Justice4all (133) 2 years ago

To the wealthy--we are not looking to take whats yours (although if you've made your fortune illegally it should be returned back to the people immediately). We are not looking to make your lives miserable or a living hell as you have done to so many of us. All we want are jobs (where we dont have to sell are soul or kiss ass to get ahead) Jobs, that treat their employees fairly, and with basic human decency. We want to shelter our families and have the ability to feed them. We need affordable health care, where we can be treated with our basic human dignity. We want the ability to not be in life long debt before we reach the age of 25, then be a slave the rest of our lives just to pay off the interest on that debt. In short--all we want our basic human rights, and our dignity and to rebuild through that dignity a trust in each other that has been lost or stolen (take your pick), and begin to heal in the pains caused by the terrible greed and injustices in social and economic inequality in a system we had nothing to do with creating.

[-] 1 points by Rkw40more (29) 2 years ago

I grew up in a lower income family and the debt I had at age 25 was because I just had to have a new truck!!! It was repossessed because my wants could not be covered by my wages. In hindsight I see that I should have driven my beat up car untill I had saved enough money to pay cash for a more reasonable vehicle. With that said I think we all have the option to be in debt or not to be in debt, that is based on your priority and goals set in life. If you don't want to be in debt at 25 or any age set goals and make a plan to reach those goals, you can't really expect to have the same house, vehicle and bank account by waking up every morning, as someone who has put there blood, sweat and tears into there work to achieve there goals.

[-] 1 points by Rkw40more (29) 2 years ago

If you want a job "(where we dont have to sell are soul of or kiss ass to get ahead)" have you considered starting your own business setting guidelines on employee treatment and using your business model as an example to thers? The downside to that is it is successful or you land a good concept and your business plan sets change in motion you might profit from it, and in turn become "the Wealthy".

[-] 1 points by Justice4all (133) 2 years ago

Personally, I dont wish to become wealthy. I neither have the desire to covet wealth or power of any kind. My own personal intentions are to not be the master of people or money nor a slave to money itself. For my own personal doing I do well enough financially, but the question each person should ask themselves is how much do I really need in this world? For myself its enough to have shelter, food in my belly, utilities (gas, electric etc.) and transportation. Anything more than that is more than I could ever want or need. That I believe is the question those who run everything need to ask themselves. Do you really need that huge mansion or house or could you live with a roof over your head of one or two rooms to keep you warm and dry? These huge homes people buy for sheer ego/arrogance whatever it is that makes the human condition sickening, could take all that extra and give it to the poor to house them. In my mind why should any person/family/group suffer when there are people in this world who can just do the basic human and right thing since they have the means by which to give it? If its just a case of well I worked for it so screw the rest of my fellow man, its mine by rights alone. To me, if you have been given the ability to make that wealth, you were given it for a reason and that reason is not ones own personal self glorification, it is to open that person up to the amazing gift of giving and sharing. We have created a system and world that is much of a Scrooge mindset--"if they are to die, let them die and decrese the surplus population" It sickens me as just a human being, more or less a child of God that man has made such a system and it needs to be changed. If there is a God, it is my thought it is that beings voice behind this movement giving a sign to all of us to wake up and change!

[-] 1 points by Rkw40more (29) 2 years ago

I understand what you are saying, And I do believe the is a God (1), I also believe that we should take care of our families immediate needs and help those in need as we can. My concern is that telling someone who doesn't feel or have the moral upbringing that they must change wont work. Even if change happened, is it sustaining change or merely an outward appearance of change we will see? I have my parents to thank for showing and teaching me the importance my moral values and the value of others. With that said I learned by the example my parents set before my, the question I have is how is this movement setting that example? I guess I don't understand, there will always be large corporations that someone has to run, but is anyone with moral convictions being encouraged to work their way to the top so that one day these corporations will be run with the same conviction you have? I'm also not sure what kind of job you are looking for, but my example above still applies. It's been my experience (as I am self employed) that the best scenario work place is my own, although I disappoint myself on occasion. Every job I have ever worked there have been those that only care about themselves, but I went home everyday knowing I represented myself as my morals and beliefs dictated. So I guess my main question is without someone who thinks as you do rising above to reach the level to run a poorly managed, morally comprehensive corporations how is the protesting going to work?

[-] 1 points by Justice4all (133) 2 years ago

You seem like a good person who has a good head on their shoulders. My belief is that once people get into that position of power(s) that over years and years it weighs on them and they lose their convictions and lose their soul to the coveting of profits for company versus retaining their moral decency. I think thats where certain moaral stories like the one about Christ being tempted by Satan in the desert are extremely important. Basically the moral is dont chase power and wealth, do not sell what is most important inside yourself or you will lose all that you are really here for. Even though Im not very religious, I think these stories tell volumes of the fragileness of the human character! Thats why I believe personally that we have to find a way to make life far more than about who attains the most in wealth and material things as winners--we should simply be here for each other to do our best in a new moral and ethical world. Your right though--how is protesting going to change that? Honestly I do not know, but something has to change in this world as even though there are those at the top they have probably done more damage to themselves then they have for the rest of society. By setting an example and creating the world in the example as souless and unethical and pure immorality the rest of the world has to follow because its the world we are all thrown into serving. Im a pacifist by nature--seeing so many profit off war and others suffering I in no way understand. I do however believe in justice (hence the name I chose) and feel that most people rise through these incredible financial reigns of power through fraud and criminal activities and never pay justice for it because they own the system. If the people can get the upper hand there and begin to prosecute thousands and thousands of these demons--that would be a huge start. To show that it is still the peoples system that we forgot was ours but have regained that knowledge and need to reset things on a moral agenda--not a greed and financial one. If we can reset the mindset of humanity I feel things will begin to change drastically! Seems to me that you work hard and have created something with a decent and hard working moral compass. There are many like you and thats a very good thing! Those types of people who have a business morality and decency are key in keeping this system if it remains a capitalistic system. And for most those who want the system changes as badly as I do from who I know personally feel much the same. Its not about just getting revenge on every person who has succeeded, its about making sure justice is served and the system is reset by those who will not run amuck based on what is lets face it pure evil. Through hopefully having discussions with morally based individuals like yourself who have created your own way but have not been corrupted is a step in the right direction for changing things for the better! Take care!

[-] 1 points by Rkw40more (29) 2 years ago

What is your concept of wealthy?

[-] 0 points by FreeMarkets (272) 2 years ago

or even reality?

[-] 1 points by Rkw40more (29) 2 years ago

I don't think reality is the question, I think people have no concept that while there are some that take advantage of the system, some work hard and treat others fairly. I think it all goes back to understanding / or having good moral character, thinking of others and good work ethic. I measure my wealth by the time I get to spend with my family and friends. I have realized maybe I won't own a Ferrari, but... I'm ok with that, I get to come home to my beautiful wife and kids, spend time with friends and go on the occasional vacation. To think I need or deserve any more than that is not reality, I think it would be considered by many to be selfish and immature.

[-] 1 points by bubul (18) 2 years ago

I'm getting the feeling that over 50% of all libertarian political organizing must be devoted to bombing comment threads on websites set up by people with actual politics.

[-] 0 points by korzib9 (80) from Newark, NJ 2 years ago

you sound like you want big government.

[-] 1 points by bobby (58) from Quincy, CA 2 years ago

The national USA Parliament’s presidential debate committee made up of Roseanne Barr [Green Tea], Jim Burns [Libertarian], Tina Cook [Independent] and myself James Ogle [Free Parliamentary] are all candidates for US President. We recently had a three-way debate, but Roseanne couldn’t make it due to an emergency.

I assure you, that most Democratic and Republican candidates are not interested, because of the perceived 50/50 chance of winning in single-winner districts and plurality voting systems.

That’s why we need to work primarily with candidates who actually agree to be involved based on ranked votes, ballot kept as proof, so their ballots (and eballots) can be posted for all to view.

Listen to the debate by clicking the link to the station, Freedom’s Phoenix dot com, and then click the “play” button.

http://usparliament.org/pdc.php

We’ve linked up to the NY Senate candidate and OWS participant MSP Robert N. Davis [Independent] and he has self nominated his name to the New York Super-state Parliament. (MSP=member of super-state parliament)

He and I are also trying to help to organize in the “Occupy the SEC” group on this site with Alexis [Info. Not Avail.], and we need more members over there. Need not be present to have your name nominated, just go to the forum and vote for your name by using the "eballot" that was posted there, and write in your own name or someone elses name to represent you.

Here's the forum web page, ngo to the "Vote of Confidence" thread for more info.

http://www.nycga.net/groups/occupy-the-sec/forum/

Alexis is interested in the proposed SEC's Volcker Rules, and she's leading the studies in making public comment at the SEC in mid-January. If you’re interested in reading about 50 pages of the hundreds of pages of boring rules, then she needs your help.

The rules are posted in the forum.

However, if you're interested in other means and ways of reforming corporate rules/laws, please join the group and your ideas will be voted into the agenda. For example, I prefer to see all corporations (or 2000 employees or more?) elect 50% of their BoDs from workers in various levels of the corporation.

I suggest that people start signing up because we’re going too slow and we’re too small. We’re kicking off on 1/1/2012, and the OWS groups are totally unorganized, in disarray, and being decimated.

What I’m seeing is a sub-debate committee made up of US Senate candidates, and Congressional candidates too. Since we have one US Senate candidate from NY, I suggest we locate several Congressional candidates, who want to use our system of ranked choice consensus voting for decisions.

We can use volunteers, vote counters, etc.

Feel free to call or email if you have any questions:

–James Ogle [Free Parliamentary] 415-686-1996 joogle@gonott.com

[-] 1 points by IChowderDown (110) from Dallas, TX 2 years ago

Head south. Tent city in Texas. Find (rent, buy, camp resort) a chunk of land beside a great big city. Start Viral Syndication. Set up strikes/ assemblies on weekends wherever. Enjoy the moment grow the movement. Let them have there _____ park back, like what ever, :)

[-] 1 points by tabsheehan (2) 2 years ago

I've been saying prayers for you folks in NYC, and I wholeheartedly support #OWS. It IS our time. VIVA LA REVOLUCION! I live in Nueva Mexico, in a small village some would say is a ghost town... This movement is not going away! I do understand that it is a fledgling movement and weather is not on the side of the occupiers. However, with the donations received could you rent a space to conduct business if you are evicted? Just a thought... VIA CON DIOS, mi compadres!

[-] 1 points by SocratesPhilosophy (231) 2 years ago

Richard B. Clark

Director and Chief Executive Officer Brookfield Properties Corporation

http://people.forbes.com/profile/richard-b-clark/13734

Salary $600,000.00

Option awards $ $546,000.00

Non-equity incentive plan compensation $4,000,000.00

Total Compensation $5,146,000.00 (2010)

[-] 1 points by northernnieghbour (8) 2 years ago

i think that this song clip from the les miserables sums up what everyone is feeling. (thought i would use the multi-language version because this is a global movement)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPpkTgMbhRU

[-] 3 points by SocratesPhilosophy (231) 2 years ago

I appose violent protest but some Rage Against the Machine makes me want to march on the White House.

[-] 2 points by JamesS89118 (646) from Las Vegas, NV 2 years ago

appose [əˈpəʊz]. vb (tr). 1. to place side by side

A Freudian slip for Anarchy!

[-] 2 points by SocratesPhilosophy (231) 2 years ago

LOL, or was eating dinner.

[-] 1 points by bigbangbilly (594) 2 years ago

You need a way to get through the spam filters.

[-] 1 points by northernnieghbour (8) 2 years ago

i think that this song clip from the les miserables sums up what everyone is feeling. (thought i would use the multi-language version because this is a global movement)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPpkTgMbhRU

[-] 1 points by JPB950 (2254) 2 years ago

OWS has alienated its neighbors and the ongoing occupation is ruining private small businesses in the area. Pressure from these groups may get the mayor and park board to act. The movement is unable to adequately police itself or get along with its neighbors. Eviction is often what happens in these circumstances.

[-] 1 points by not1or99 (1) 2 years ago

Just curious how do you have a cell phone plan to text if the 99% can't afford rent, food, heat etc. Where did the ability to text, blog, Twitter and Facebook come from? I find it ironic that lots of the arguments the 99% make slam the so called 1% who are the same millionaires that made apple products, facebook, Twitter and lots of other technology companies. I don't get the 99 vs 1 math or logic.. I am not either of these categories. I don't know where the rest of us fit into your us vs them. I am a small business owner. I am in year 4 of my business. I have a husband that pays the bills for our family of 4. My business took money to start and every dollar made has gone right back into the business I have paid 3 contract workers in the past during peak busy seasons. In 2 months I paid $7000 to my contract workers. I have not been paid anything in 4 years. My time and sweat equity will benefit one day. If my business grows to the point that I am now a successful entrepreneur what does that make me? Isn't this how moist of the 1% become the 1%? How many people are employed by companies that started small and in debt? I know of a software company that struggled and grew from 2 -300 employees, still small by most company sizes. This company developed a software that was cutting edge and got bought for 1 billion. So those 2 recent college grads become your dreaded 1%. Just a few thoughts for you to think on and to maybe help the others who are not the 1 or 99 figure out your cause.

[-] 2 points by Rocket88 (3) 2 years ago

The 1% didn't create internet technologies. They were created by thousands of unknown scientists and engineers who were funded in the beginning by the government. Nor did most (or even more than a tiny fraction) of the 1% start off as penniless entrepreneurs. And even if they did, that doesn't entitle them to 40% of the nation's wealth and control of the government and every other institution in our society.

[-] 2 points by Sly (19) from Brattleboro, VT 2 years ago

You, madam, are part of the 99%. Not ALL of the 99% are impoverished or even struggling, but the 1% has bought off our supposed representatives so that the rest of us are no longer represented in the government.

(Although an interesting note on the cell phone thing - where I live, at least, most people have only cell phones because the plans are less expensive than landlines.)

[-] 1 points by Meesa (173) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Then why are we protesting Wall Street and not the representatives that took the money or were influenced by money? I still don't get this part.

[-] 1 points by Rocket88 (3) 2 years ago

Because the politicans are merely puppets controlled by the corporate elite, and Wall Street lies at the core of the corporate elite. Check out elite power theory: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elite_theory http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/

[-] 1 points by Bymynishus (10) 2 years ago

Who said all of the the 99% can't afford rent, food, heat etc? The top 1% made over $345k or more adjusted gross income in 2010. I'm a little over the top 50% line who are people that made $32,396.
http://www.kiplinger.com/features/archives/how-your-income-stacks-up.html

But that doesn't mean I can't be angry about the outright fraud in the Credit Default Swap / Synthetic Collateralized Debt Obligation shenanigans perpetrated by Goldman Sachs & their cohorts that wreaked havoc in economies around the world. It's not the CDO/CDS themselves, it's that they lied about the state of the investments and sold a BS time-bomb to investment funds like my 401k, hedge funds and banks. (SEC files fraud charges.) http://www.sec.gov/litigation/litreleases/2010/lr21489.htm

I think it's pretty lame that their losses ended up being socialized so you and me and every other US taxpayer got to eat it. I also don't like that government regulation has been slowly eroding away. Glass-Steagall which was put in place after the Great Depression (which was also caused by fraud in the financial sector) was weakened enough to enable this crap. Sometimes I think our good ol' Uncle Sam has morphed into a well meaning schizophrenic self loathing Big Brother with a gambling problem. These days Sam is only at the helm during REM sleep.

If you didn't catch on to their trickery the last time, don't worry it'll be on the news again until the next celebrity wedding takes over. (Follow their source link for even more gory details.) http://gawker.com/5855715/how-american-banks-are-engineering-the-next-apocalypse-again

I'm also against corporate personhood when coupled with the money powered lobbying system.

Also, if it interests you, here's a Wall Street Journal article on the top 1% income earners' growth vs. the bottom 99% in the last 30 years, it's a quickly widening gap. http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2011/10/25/income-growth-of-top-1-over-30-years-outpaced-rest-of-u-s/

I'm not part of OWS, I live on the other coast but I think I have some feelings and ideas in common with participants of the moment. And yes there are some jobless hippies involved, especially here on the west coast. But, the Occupy movement is open to everyone and has spread around the country. And guess what? I agree with some people and don't with others. Which is why blanket statements about the movement at large are never accurate or useful.

[-] 1 points by otonzer (33) 2 years ago

People with shoes should never be alowed to complain about transportation.

[-] 1 points by rutgers797 (37) from Wall, NJ 2 years ago

Has anyone noticed that there are just about zero videos available online (on YouTube, Vimeo, Google, etc.) documenting the Occupy Oakland activities from yesterday, November 2? This has censorship written all over it :-(

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[-] 1 points by SocratesPhilosophy (231) 2 years ago

WE THE PEOPLE'S STATEMENT OF BELIEFS:

The Constitution Working Group of Occupy Wall Street (OWS) has produced the following Statement of Beliefs as a platform for recommended future actions to solve the Nation's problems, including BAILOUTS, CORPORATE PERSONHOOD, WAR, UNSOUND MONEY AND DEBT.

The Constitution Working Group asks that these Beliefs now be considered by ALL People in and out of the Occupy movement. Ponder these and make known your approval:


·All People have Natural Rights -- Simply Because They Are Alive;

·We the People have Instituted Government to Secure our Rights;

·According to our Governing Documents, Sovereignty rests with the People - Here in America, the People have the Ultimate Power;

·The Constitution & Declaration of Independence are inextricably intertwined;

·Every Principle, Prohibition, Restriction and Mandate of our Governing Documents represents a Guaranteed, Individual Right;

·The People are the Source of All Political Power - no one gets into office unless WE put them there;

·All Elected Officials are limited by our written Constitutions - If Not Authorized in writing, such acts are UNLAWFUL;

·The Constitution is not a Menu;

·The Constitution cannot Defend Itself;

·Individuals and Small Groups cannot prevail in attempts to hold government accountable to their State and Federal Constitutions;

·A Critical Mass is needed, i.e., 3-5% of population;

·Very few in and out of public office can recognize when government is obeying or violating the Constitution;

·The way our system of governance is working is in sharp contrast to the way it is designed to work;

·We don't change the Constitution by ignoring it; there are provisions within it to make changes;

·All that is happening is our fault; the People have allowed it to happen;

·The People have always had the ultimate power in America and have always been the final arbiters of constitutionality;

·Most of what is causing our National distress NOW can be traced back to violations of the Constitution.


http://www.givemeliberty.org/occupy/

[-] 2 points by breaker (6) 2 years ago

http://convention.idea.informer.com/

Amending the Constitution is an uphill battle, but it can be done. However, there really should be a 3rd way of amendment, one where the people have the power, not the State governments, or Congress.

I wouldn't forget why the original Colonies decided to declare independence, rich white land owners wanted more freedom to do business and make a profit. Truly the entire system is based on those values. The Constitution and the Bill of Rights are nice afterthoughts.

I question if a system that served the founding fathers is one that can ever be reformed, or is it time for something new?

[-] 2 points by SocratesPhilosophy (231) 2 years ago

The preservation of the sacred fire of liberty, and the destiny of the Republican model of government, are justly considered as deeply, perhaps as finally staked, on the experiment entrusted to the hands of the American people. ~George Washington

[-] 2 points by breaker (6) 2 years ago

Who did they consider people? Male white landowners. Yes, it sounds great, and it sure was a great way to get people on the side of the American Revolution so they could make more money. However, yes, it is an experiment, we the people can revoke it. Thanks for the comment. Have you read "A People's History of the United States"? It's a good one.

[-] 2 points by SocratesPhilosophy (231) 2 years ago

We want freedom not control, what is wrong with states deciding whats best for them? people define the law in there local areas (state) letting them choose what is best for themselves based off of what they see fit as long as such laws do not effect Constitutional rights.

The republican government was not formed until after the American Revolution. The current United States Constitution was adopted on September 17, 1787; its ratification the following year made the states part of a single republic with a strong central government. The Bill of Rights, comprising ten constitutional amendments guaranteeing many fundamental civil rights and freedoms, was ratified in 1791.

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[-] 1 points by stevenkatz (2) 2 years ago

use cash donations for legal infrastructure when and if physical occupation is no longer possible

[-] 1 points by villers (-2) 2 years ago

Someone with a loud, strong voice should read the Bill of Rights out loud to the authorities. Really, get a copy and read it aloud to them, then explain it. Perhaps some things are a bit murky to them or they don’t think we KNOW what our rights are.

[-] 2 points by lentri21 (14) 2 years ago

Another fool... Don't take it from me, take it from one of your own (from www.usdayofrage.org -- to which occupywallst.org linked on Sept. 8 @ 9:41pm (check the occupywallst.org front page)): <quote> According to a 2000 federal court ruling, the use of "public sleeping as a means of symbolic expression" is allowed on public sidewalks in New York City as long as you do not block pedestrians or doorway entrances and exits. See METROPOLITAN COUNCIL, INC., Plaintiff, -against- HOWARD SAFIR, Commissioner of the New York City Police Department, et al., June 12, 2000 [99 F. Supp. 2d 438; 2000 U.S. Dist.]

Camping, however, is prohibited. DO NOT SET UP A TENT.Keep in mind that permits are legally required for assemblies of more than 20 or more people within the confines of NYC public parks, which close at different times, for example 10pm. Property abutting a park may still be considered park property.

YOU DO NOT NEED A PERMIT TO OCCUPY OR PEACEABLY ASSEMBLE ON PUBLIC SIDEWALKS.

THERE ARE DIFFERENT KINDS OF PROPERTY JURISDICTIONS IN LOWER MANHATTAN, PUBLIC SIDEWALKS, PRIVATE, FEDERAL, and PARKS. Many public banking plazas may be considered private property.

See Legal Info reviewed by National Lawyers Guild.

Keep in mind that permits are legally required for assemblies of more than 20 or more people within the confines of NYC public parks, which close at 10pm.

YOU DO NOT NEED A PERMIT TO OCCUPY OR PEACEABLY ASSEMBLE ON PUBLIC SIDEWALKS. <end of quote>

[-] 1 points by FairFacts (1) 2 years ago

There is no right of “occupation” included in the Bill of Rights, nor does a desire to protest accord a right to take over private property, or disregard the laws of the land.

[-] 1 points by llf (144) 2 years ago

Impressive. Really. Sounds like you went to a top law school and learned a lot.

[-] 1 points by Skippy2 (485) 2 years ago

OK, off beat idea here. Scout the nearest open space to your present Freedom encampment. Late at night, with no warning, everybody QUIETLY pickup your stuff and move to the new spot. If asked by police or press during the big move, the only reply is "Away". Set up new camp. Epic WIn for OWS!

[-] 1 points by Bymynishus (10) 2 years ago

Yup, cause none of the constant communication between OWS participants, websites or a large mass of moving people would tip them off.

[-] 0 points by between (2) 2 years ago

yeah occupy central park, then you can have lakeside views.

[-] 0 points by NonParticipant (151) 2 years ago

Central Park has curfews. Central Park in New York has a five hour curfew which is in effect from 1:00 AM until 6:00 AM. If you are caught by the Central Park Police Precinct, you could face getting two tickets there (trespassing and failure to adhere to posted signs) and will need to take time to go to court for the infraction and any other rules & regulations (such as possession and/or consumption of alcohol) you may have broken during your time in the park. To be guilty of the trespass infraction, you need to have previous knowledge that you were not allowed so you can often have the summons dismissed providing you do not get into any more trouble in a time set by the court so it is important to show up when specified to see the judge. Failure to appear can bring warrants and late fines. If you are driving in and around Central Park, be sure to adhere to the set hours listed for West Drive, East Drive and 72nd Street crossing.

[-] 1 points by Bymynishus (10) 2 years ago

Thanks for the notification helpful citizen.

[-] 1 points by JamesS89118 (646) from Las Vegas, NV 2 years ago

8 million people on a small island and you close the central park? For vampires, I guess?

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[-] 1 points by mansoor114 (6) from Germantown, MD 2 years ago

Here is how the banker's game works:

1) Get the government to issue some currency (cash -- paper or reserves at the central bank -- reserves are government issued cash central bank deposits). Government issued cash is around 5% of the currency (money) supply. The government issued currency is put into circulation by the government simply spending it.

2) The rest (95%) of the currency is issued by the private banks. Each customer loan is a new bank deposit (i.e., new currency) and increases the currency (money) supply of the economy. Note that this newly created money (currency) is put into circulation by the borrower spending it. Most currency (about 95% America's currency supply) has been borrowed into existence and when bank customer pays the loan back that amount of currency is removed from circulation. The banking system cannot go backwards (fewer net loans) as time moves on because fewer net loans means fewer currency in circulation in the economy.

Accmulation of interest charges on outstanding loans means that the currency supply must constantly increase even if it means giving out lower quality loans. Think of it like a plane flying it must fly at some minimum speed or else the plane (the banking system) will crash (i.e., banking system collapse).

3) The bankers make dam sure that the common public does not understand how the monetary system works meaning that the private banks issue 95% of the currency. This is whole another topic how they do this.

4) The system works until real economic capacity of the economy grows and debts can be serviced and interest charges paid. Most of the time the economy oscillates between boom (growth) and bust (recession) because bust is needed to clear debts and start a new lending cycle.

5) Eventually, one of these cycles goes so deep that currency supply (and demand) falls so low that too many debts become un-serviceable. The recession becomes a depression now.

6) The bankers then have to decide how to "reset" the system. One way to reset the system is to let the depression takes its course. But of course this path is very chaotic because people lose jobs and may become violent. Once most debts are cleared lending can start again and the currency supply is replenished. Wars are a good way to get initial money (currency) into an economy after a depression to get demand going again. This is the great depression scenario.

7) Another way to "reset" the system is to get the government to print too much money and spend and destroy the currency and blame it on the government. This justifies issuance of a totally new currency (note that hyperinflation clears debts) and the lending cycle can start again. This is the Weimar scenario.

8) The banking system (as is) is setup to maximize the power and influence of the global bankers and NOT for the maximum general well being of people. By the way this is a global game. This is the only system around no matter what country you are in. The global banking cartel makes sure that no competing systems are allowed to exist (so they might be copied and global bankers will lose power).

For more details on this stuff please read the following articles in order listed below:

http://seekingalpha.com/article/209386-modern-monetary-system-there-is-another-way

http://aquinums-razor.blogspot.com/2010/07/why-is-deflation-and-depression.html

http://seekingalpha.com/article/210346-should-newly-created-money-be-a-private-or-a-public-asset

http://seekingalpha.com/article/192375-cause-of-today-s-economic-crises-too-much-thrift

http://seekingalpha.com/article/160269-a-radical-solution-for-america-s-insolvent-financial-system

http://seekingalpha.com/article/146658-great-banking-confusion-is-there-a-better-way

mansoor h. khan, gaithersburg, md

http://aquinums-razor.blogspot.com/

[-] 1 points by Bymynishus (10) 2 years ago

You might find this news link and conversation interesting from an influence standpoint. There are compelling arguments of varying opinions here.

http://news.slashdot.org/story/11/10/24/1542240/the-147-corporations-controlling-most-of-the-global-economy

[-] 1 points by JPB950 (2254) 2 years ago

No where in this system do you mention earning currency. It's been known to happen that some people work, collect currency until they have enough, they trade it for what they want. In the case of the mortgage the individual does not have to get into a contract he or she can't afford and it is possible to rent a place to live. You're paranoid system only works if people allow themselves to buy on credit. Work first, buy later would cut out the evil banking conspiracy from the equasion.

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6287) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

Makes me wonder about the timing of that violence in California.

[-] 1 points by angelofmercy (225) 2 years ago

Its all down hill from here.

[-] 1 points by llf (144) 2 years ago

You wish. As all provocateurs do. Things tend to be more complex. But, nothing indicates that you would really know that.

[-] 0 points by angelofmercy (225) 2 years ago

Here is what I do know. The media covers a violent crime. Some nut job , that didn't have the guts the day before , gets the courage to do a crime like the one he/she saw played out in the media the next day,or 2 months down the road. The media reports on that crime , and the cycle keeps happening. People see the violence on tv , in the papers connected with this movement . Decided to join in, and they might not other wise would have gotten the courage to do something bad , but since everyone else is doing it. They think , well they can't arrest us all . So I can do this , and not get caught. Then that thought and cycle keeps happening.You get enough nut jobs in a crowd , your asking for trouble. The movement is a walking time bomb.

[-] 1 points by llf (144) 2 years ago

That is some deep thinking. Are you a trained social scientist or something? Wow.

[-] 0 points by angelofmercy (225) 2 years ago

It's called the copy cat effect. And no I'm not a trained social scientist or something.

[-] 1 points by nucleus (3291) 2 years ago

Occupy Gracie Mansion.

[-] 1 points by Meesa (173) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Brookfield is PRIVATE property. OWS is lucky to have been able to stick around as long as it has. Close to World Trade, no less. I say voluntarily leave the park, which is becoming nothing more than a reality show commune. If OWS is strong, it will simply flourish elsewhere. MANY supporters haven't camped out -- they are keenly participating a for an hour, or online. Why do we need to camp out overnight, anyhow? Why not start organizing daily Meetups for the working groups, keep the GAs going, and keep on with the clever flash-mobs.

[-] -1 points by lentri21 (14) 2 years ago

I vote all of #OWS off the island! Can I do that?

[-] 1 points by lightning (4) 2 years ago

Wouldn't it be nice to move to some nice warm park in Florida? There's plenty of 1% down there too. You have to think about your health because without it, no protest, no reform.

[-] 1 points by skinny (44) 2 years ago

But what about alerts for the other Occupy cities, how can we come to their mutual aid also?

[-] 0 points by RexDiamond (585) from Idabel, OK 2 years ago

Can't the unions just hire someone to fight the cops when they come to evict?

[-] 0 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

I defend the right, but see that when there is not yet developed strategy behind the occupation to GAIN the authority to see demand met.-----

Without that, its a waste of time. Accordingly, do not burn yourselves out. We need you. Get out, get informed of why OWS is not talking about GAINING the authority to see demands met. Then, come back with the full support of the highest law in the land clearly empowering and protecting your occupation.--

Article 5 of the US constitution is needed to meet demands. Nothing less will suffice.------

If the power of the numbers is not well used, it only means more sacrifice and suffer. It does not mean that something gets done.--

Be strong, to return equipped with unity under law.

[-] 0 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

I defend the right, but see that when there is not yet developed strategy behind the occupation to GAIN the authority to see demand met, there is sacrifice for little return.-----

Without that, its a waste of time. Accordingly, do not burn yourselves out. We need you. Get out, get informed of why OWS is not talking about GAINING the authority to see demands met. Then, come back with the full support of the highest law in the land clearly empowering and protecting your occupation.--

Article 5 of the US constitution is needed to meet demands. Nothing less will suffice.------

If the power of the numbers is not well used, it only means more sacrifice and suffer. It does not mean that something gets done.--

Be strong, to return equipped with unity under law.

[-] 0 points by Spankysmojo (849) 2 years ago

Maybe we should get lunch and come back when they go get donuts.

[-] 0 points by MeMyselfandI (85) 2 years ago

Its about time. GO NYPD!!

[-] 1 points by owsisajoke1 (9) 2 years ago

It's about time someone with a brain other then my self speaks agains those who claim to speak for the masses!

Thank you MeMyselfandI

[-] 0 points by Justice4all (133) 2 years ago

Kudos to those in NYC looking to place W. Bush under citizens arrest! Murder, crimes against humanity, treason, war profiteering--what a guy, what a guy! Just goes to show who this system has been created for and that those who should be held to the highest levels of integrity and justice, are part of this horrible treachourous system they've created--and the worst of what we have in society become our leaders versus the best of who and what we are. I applaud those looking to seek out justice against one of their most notorious criminals this country has ever seen, and hopefully citizens arrests will be attempted against all these CEO's that occupy has come to understand as our national curse! We should try to arrest Cheney as well, but he doesnt come out from the bunker all too often--sign of what a true coward he is!

[-] 0 points by Rkw40more (29) 2 years ago

How are you supporting your needs like food,drinks and other financial responsibilities? Do any people protesting have jobs, families or goals? What are you hoping to change by these protests?

[-] 0 points by joesmith7789 (31) 2 years ago

If you get evicted from Zuccotti park and have no other place to assemble then walk in rows of three or four down busy sidewalks it will interfere with people trying to get around. A few thousand people moving around slowly should not lead to arrests and if the locations are selected carefully you will get the most news coverage. You will become such a nuisance to the daily operation of NYC they will be glad you are in Zuccotti park instead.

[-] 1 points by Bymynishus (10) 2 years ago

Is the occupy protest meant to inconvenience and antagonize the general populace? I don't think so. At the very it should be person neutral. Though I think it should serve to inform the general populace. If more people understood some of the banking fraud and the level corporate influence on our lawmakers I think they'd gladly join the ranks of us, "the unwashed masses" at least in spirit.

To me the purpose of the OWS movement is to inform everyone. The average Joe, the politicians, the financial industry, the 1% and the rest of the world that corruption in finance and politics is ruining us all and things don't have to be this way to be better for nearly everyone.

[-] 0 points by joesmith7789 (31) 2 years ago

The point is to return to Zuccotti Park after causing major inconveniences to the general public if ever evicted. The major inconveniences are not violent they are passive and silent.

[-] 1 points by Bymynishus (10) 2 years ago

Well, alienating the general public will leave you with nothing but preaching to the choir and put them emotionally on the side of Wall St. Who's going to listen to your message if you're intentionally trying to inconvenience them? They're gonna spend their energy and trying to avoid the problem you created for them and build feelings of frustration and animosity... and who's going to be there to emphasize with them? The media with it's sensationalism and the GOP.

[-] 1 points by Rkw40more (29) 2 years ago

Wait.... So because I have to go to work to support my family, you are going to make my life difficult? But I'm not a 1%er, why is this okay?

[-] 1 points by joesmith7789 (31) 2 years ago

It is ok because you and others will complain and when there are too many complaints Zuccotti Park will then be a better option. If you do not complain now and join the movement you will at one point not have any work to go to.

[-] 1 points by Rkw40more (29) 2 years ago

Why would I have no work to go to?

[-] 1 points by joesmith7789 (31) 2 years ago

You and others will not have work to go to because the US is being deindustrialized. The occupy movement makes everyone aware of this in one way or another. The large banks have been pulling funds out of the US and placing them in Asia the last 15 years. Asia has become industrialized due to that funding. Corporate lobbyists have been convincing politicians to pass legislation that favor Asian markets and industrialization. You and others that believe you are safe at your occupations are not. There is never going to be any improvement in the US economy unless people stand up to this deindustrialization. Walking in two or threes in front of you on sidewalks as you go to work or elsewhere leads to complaints which allows us to return to Zuccotti park.

[-] 1 points by Rkw40more (29) 2 years ago

Nevermind I see you were an electrical engineer who is mad you lost your job and have been going to your old employer every other day to remind them........ Wait......have you attempted to find another job? If they got rid of me and hired someone they could pay less, I would be happy I was no longer working for them. If you feel you need to rub this mistake in their faces, wouldn't it be better to find another job with someone that appreciated your work ethic then they would see how beneficial you would have been as an employee? Surely you think more of yourself than to throw your hands up after one discouraging moment? I've lost my job many times and changed careers altogether because of it, but I just go out and find another one, one day I may find one I really enjoy. Surely I'm missing something, maybe this has happened to you 5 or 6 times, I can't imagine anyone would give up after one time that would be pure insanity.

[-] 1 points by Rkw40more (29) 2 years ago

What kind of work did you do before all of this?

[-] -1 points by korzib9 (80) from Newark, NJ 2 years ago

Theoretically you can all pretend to be tourists, but eventually the police will catch on..

[-] 0 points by occupyoccupyoccupy (14) 2 years ago

if they even try the movement at ows then we will see oakland times 100 there will be a reoccupation followed by a huge strike by all members of the 99% of NYC!! its a WIN WIN.

[-] 1 points by korzib9 (80) from Newark, NJ 2 years ago

You mean the 100x the rioting that happened in Oakland? Something tells me that you will lose some support were that to happen.

[-] 2 points by Bymynishus (10) 2 years ago

As a supporter of OWS I would not stand idly by and allow blatant vandalism to happen unchallenged. I would hope anyone that supports this movement would know better than to cause intentional harm. That's the kind of thinking that leads to the corruption that most of us are against.

[-] 1 points by occupyoccupyoccupy (14) 2 years ago

yeah, 100 times.... if you didnt notice the port and business was shut down peacefully, what happened with those cops i dont know but if you watch this you will understand that the vandalizing is done by the cops. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zejD0UkMGGY

[-] 0 points by korzib9 (80) from Newark, NJ 2 years ago

Nonsense. There are some dumb anarchists among your ranks.

[-] 0 points by unitedwe (78) 2 years ago

Go to Sports Authority and sleep in their tents, but please don't try on the Under Armour.

[-] 0 points by AnonymousMuadDib (26) 2 years ago

Take on the Higher education bubble, student loan bubble, GoldmanSachs, and the federal Reserve all at the same time. Occupy the Art Institutes on Nov 5 in solidarity with south Florida.

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=130962100345051

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=278790262155872

[-] 0 points by DonHawkins (37) 2 years ago

This is a fight that doesn't end either way it doesn't end. OWS is not good for tourism really well having a planet that can't support life will bring a whole new meaning to tourism. This is a fight that doesn't end......

[-] 0 points by skinny (44) 2 years ago

great!

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[-] -1 points by betuadollar (-313) 2 years ago

They're going to move you because you've identified with Oakland and various other violent world wide insurrections.

[-] -1 points by ogodoit (10) 2 years ago

I'll let one OWS chick sleep in my BMW.

[-] 1 points by llf (144) 2 years ago

Fake ass

[-] 1 points by ogodoit (10) 2 years ago

Sure, she can have a fake ass, as long as it is a nice one. Thanks!

[-] -1 points by freeusa (14) 2 years ago

Bunch of lu.. OWS, if you people still talking about 1st amendments then you should all go home and work on a way re run the next election or currently depose the mayor, governor and the president. because in the bill of right, some of those rights that we had already been strip away in new york city- just to proof you guys are lunatic let me ask you in the second amendments do you have the right to bear arms in New York City? bunch of lu...running in the park, go home and setup a space where you can legally occupied by paying the rent to those 1% who owns the most property in the city, then change our ways of running election. Hopefully you will succeed. by the way to the OWS I read your declaration, let me ask you what do you want? what is your demand? Do you think the current US government protecting you to to exercise the right of free speech will allow you to change the core of current government by protest and occupied a park?

Hope some one can read this and truthfully understand it...

I, [name], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.[1]

If we are not changing the constitution then we should all go home use our voting power and remove those government official does not fit to hold the job of benefiting the majority, those 400 wall street rich people are no fault cause people take side, government needs tax revenue to run the park, school, the police men etc. and corporation makes money for the city. the matter is the individual who is in the office are making wrong decision that harm us, we should remove those government official and reelected the one that fit.

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[-] -1 points by FreeMarkets (272) 2 years ago

Why do you feel entitled to occupy this property? It's not like you are occupying one of the banks (try that and see how long it lasts). You are just limiting access to a public space that belongs to all us - to the "99%"

[-] 1 points by llf (144) 2 years ago

What do you want or need to do in the park that you cannot?

[-] 0 points by FreeMarkets (272) 2 years ago

I cannot enjoy it as a park - as a respite from the city. It is now a spectacle, with noises, police, media, hangars-on, etc. Things like this are finite - like a fourth of July celebration - and then move on so others can share the park. You guys have just arrogantly stolen it away from the rest of us. Worse, you are having a real impact on many small businesses who have families that survive off their activities there. You are crushing them.

[-] 1 points by llf (144) 2 years ago

Ok, so it was a bunch of self centered BS. I figured. How many parks in the city? Can't find one to do your thing? And, it was stupid police barriers that are hurting the businesses. That is why they had to move them. Who is "you guys"?

[-] 1 points by bubul (18) 2 years ago

How are they limiting access? Because you can't lay down and spread out your arms over every square inch of the park?

[-] -1 points by skinny (44) 2 years ago

Carson argues the centralization of wealth into a class hierarchy is due to state intervention to protect the ruling class, by using a money monopoly, granting patents and subsidies to corporations, imposing discriminatory taxation, and intervening militarily to gain access to international markets. He believes the term “laissez-faire capitalism” is an oxymoron because “actually existing capitalism.”, he argues, is the “organization of society, incorporating elements of tax, usury, landlordism, and tariff, which thus denies the Free Market while pretending to exemplify it”.

[-] 0 points by lentri21 (14) 2 years ago

The only people defining a class hierarchy are you folks. I represent the 100%.

[-] -1 points by nikka (228) 2 years ago

You can't blame the press for demonizing you. Your actions are apparent to anyone paying attention.

[-] 2 points by SocratesPhilosophy (231) 2 years ago

Wonder if you know the guy that started the tea party supports the OWS movement?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_protests

"The founder of www.market-ticker.org , Karl Denninger (stock trader and former CEO), published his own write-up on the proposed protest, titled "Tea Party February 1st?," which was posted in direct response to President Obama's inauguration occurring on the same day, and railed against the bailouts, the US national debt and "the fraud and abuse in our banking and financial system" which included the predatory lending practices currently at the center of the home mortgage foreclosure crisis. Karl Denninger, who helped form FedUpUSA in the wake of the March 2008 Federal Reserve bail out of Bear Sterns, had been a guest on both Glenn Beck and CNBC Reports. By February 1, the idea had spread among conservative and libertarian-oriented blogs, forums, websites and through a viral email campaign, and Denninger has since been credited as one of the founders of the movement, and the organizer for the first Tea Party event."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Denninger

[-] 1 points by JamesS89118 (646) from Las Vegas, NV 2 years ago

Karl Denninger is a class act. I first saw him on RT only a week ago. Got to love RT, eh? 'Freedom of the press' my-ass. More like 'freedom from the truth!'

[-] -1 points by raines (699) 2 years ago

Rick Santelli , on the floor of the Chicago exchange used the term TEA party. He was the first.

[-] 4 points by SocratesPhilosophy (231) 2 years ago

If we are going to use "term" then really it was more like Samuel Adams.

[-] 1 points by JamesS89118 (646) from Las Vegas, NV 2 years ago

Oh Socrates! Bet you got student loans!!! lol Cheers

[-] 2 points by SocratesPhilosophy (231) 2 years ago

Just a seeker of truth, even when I don't like what I find.

[-] 0 points by raines (699) 2 years ago

Samuel Adams didn't call for a" tea party". That description is what history named it. Santelli said it on national television.

[-] 1 points by SocratesPhilosophy (231) 2 years ago

The Tea Party was the culmination of a resistance movement throughout British America against the Tea Act, which had been passed by the British Parliament in 1773.

Whether or not Samuel Adams helped plan the Boston Tea Party is unknown, but he immediately worked to publicize and defend it. He argued that the Tea Party was not the act of a lawless mob, but was instead a principled protest and the only remaining option the people had to defend their constitutional rights.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Tea_Party

[-] 0 points by raines (699) 2 years ago

You respond without answering. The Taxed Enough Already party was born when Rick Santelli , on the floor of the Chicago Exhange, spoke . Go find the video yourself. I watched it live back then.

[-] 1 points by SocratesPhilosophy (231) 2 years ago

Rick Santelli's Chicago Tea Party Rant, Airtime: Thurs. Feb. 19 2009 | 6:11 AM ET

Rick Santelli's CNBC mention of a tea party followed Mr. Denninger's blog entry on January 20th

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Denninger

[-] 1 points by llf (144) 2 years ago

You are not clear. Who are you talking about? Who is "you"?

[-] -1 points by angelofmercy (225) 2 years ago

well said

[-] -2 points by hillary (252) 2 years ago

Not much of defense when the main ammunition is the invitation of .... wait for it..... CHILDREN to the park to act as human shields a la Middle-East. Sure the deal was called off at the last minute but the message got out to the NYPD and it was literally a sucker punch.

Kids as weapons. WOW, I'M SO IMPRESSED.

<facepalm>

[-] 3 points by MadProfit (312) 2 years ago

Kids aren't being used as weapons here - if the protest is peaceful as it claims, then there is no need for the police to use violence. If there is no need for violence, the protest is child-friendly. It's just stupid spin again - having the children there should guarantee that the police - who have consistently come dressed for riots - don't commit violence. That's not using children - that's being smart and adhering to the rules of protesting as allowed by the constitution. The only infringement is the first real demand of the occupation which is the right to stay in the park itself. Of course, if the police are ordered to start violence with children there, then I guess we see what kind of values towards our future those "in charge" really have. It's a bitter pill to swallow for those who grunt like monkeys and only see things in terms of "Grunt grunt - kill opposition with superior physical force grunt grunt" You have no honour.

[-] 1 points by between (2) 2 years ago

its not just the police that you have to worry about. there are some people who are only showing up at rallies to cause trouble. you shouldn't be bringing kids if there is any chance violence can break out.

[-] 0 points by hillary (252) 2 years ago

Putting children in front of a situation that can be volatile is grounds for child protection services to remove the children from their parents.

Is that what OWS is all about?

[-] 1 points by mserfas (652) from Ashland, PA 2 years ago

I am reminded of the Chinese suppression of Falun Gong, where parents needed to decide whether maintaining the belief was worth losing their children. I suppose keeping them in association with that group puts them into situations that "can be volatile"...

[-] 1 points by llf (144) 2 years ago

Really? What is more likely to happen? A car accident or a child hurt when police get out of hand and cannot control themselves and abuse the public in a protest? Where is the volatility in a non-violent demonstration? Should child services take your kids away for putting them in the car where they have a higher risk of getting hurt than in a peaceful protest? Police should just to their job and protect the public--including children---not fear them or attack them.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

reduction of vehicles in the streets

[-] 0 points by SocratesPhilosophy (231) 2 years ago

Please show proof of these allegations.

[-] 1 points by hillary (252) 2 years ago

Family Sleep Over on the Friday of the eviction.

Are you new here?

[-] 0 points by SocratesPhilosophy (231) 2 years ago

Can you please use cognitive speech?

[-] 1 points by hillary (252) 2 years ago

Looks like you're deflecting the argument.

I win.

[-] 0 points by SocratesPhilosophy (231) 2 years ago

No, I am asking you to cite facts, not rant and think I will believe you sorry but you are nothing more then a troll.

[-] 1 points by hillary (252) 2 years ago

I have but you ignore them and you don't seem very resourceful. Hopefully nobody depends on you for their livelihood. I accept that you have reached your intellectual limit. It does seem ironic that you would name yourself after a pillar of philosophy - guess it's wishful thinking....

GOOD NITE.

[-] 0 points by SocratesPhilosophy (231) 2 years ago

Thank you for going to bed, most trolls are children and get tired.

[-] 1 points by hmmm (52) 2 years ago

Dude, i like a lot of your posts, but i didn't see you rebut hillary.

She alleged that the Family Sleepover on the eve of the eviction was irresponsible use of children, and you said something about cognitive speech? I don't know what that is, i'm not a word scientist, but i didn't hear any kind of rebuttal beyond name-calling. I know these boards are full of fiery debate, but it looks bad for you when you totally avoid topics.

[-] 1 points by SocratesPhilosophy (231) 2 years ago

That was after I asked her to show proof of OWS parents using the children as middle east style human shields "Please show proof of these allegations."

i.e. a link to something, but she responded with "Family Sleep Over on the Friday of the eviction."

I was looking for more information and none was supplied, Sorry I was very short an error on my part I had been reading comments on Fox news and let emotion dictate my response.

Anybody can spout off about something but I need to see some kind of proof to something that extreme, maybe because I see children in what most are calling "the fight for freedom" as not a safe place and others do not share my view so it's not seen as extreme

I need proof, but it does not excuse my behavior I just didn't feel like continuing the conversation as I felt I was being trolled.

Cognitive speech:mental action or process of acquiring and/or expressing knowledge and understanding through linguistics.

[-] 1 points by hillary (252) 2 years ago

You sound upset - sorry if I destroyed your credibility.

[-] 0 points by SocratesPhilosophy (231) 2 years ago

Yes because people can review my post and judge for themselves now please put on your dunce cap and go sit in the corner, the grown folks are talking.

[-] -1 points by hillary (252) 2 years ago

Socrates, you sound angry that you got answered by a strong woman. I guess you aren't much of a man if being owned by a woman gets you so upset.

Please grow up.

[-] 2 points by QueensObserver (3) 2 years ago

Kids are not being used as shields. The Family Protest night was scheduled before there was reason to believe the cops might move in. It was scheduled because some of us believe strongly that our children need to experience and learn from this moment in history. When it apepared that the city might make a move it was canceled, which you yourself acknowledge. It was then subsequently rescheduled and went off with no problems. So while the childish back and forth between you and Socrates [and I am speaking to both parties] had its moments, it was pointless. There is simply no connection between one event and the other; except to the extent that the Family night was canceled in the face of concern of a police action, the very act of which disproves your entire point.

[-] 0 points by hillary (252) 2 years ago

Wrong. Here are the steps: 1) The Memo from the property owner was leaked beforehand and publicized on this website. 2) OWS scheduled the Family Sleep Over KNOWING of the memo 3) OWS later cancelled when they got reports from people that children in the area could be witness to violence and got bad PR.

Go ahead, refute.

[-] 1 points by SocratesPhilosophy (231) 2 years ago

If that was true it would be all over every news outlet on the planet.

[-] -1 points by hillary (252) 2 years ago

Which is why they called it off at the last minute.

Again, are you new here?

[-] 1 points by SocratesPhilosophy (231) 2 years ago

Sorry I am not one who believes random rants from a troll, have a good evening.

[-] 0 points by hillary (252) 2 years ago

I believe the same.

Research your trolls next time.

Thanks.

[-] -2 points by hahaha (-41) 2 years ago

Hahaha! Good one. Be prepared? I'll say. Be prepared to leave, one way or another.