Welcome login | signup
Language en es fr
We kick the ass of the ruling class

One hundred Brooklyn community members and Occupiers peacefully disrupt foreclosure auction

Posted 2 years ago on Jan. 26, 2012, 1:44 p.m. EST by OccupyWallSt

Approximately 35 people arrested for nonviolent civil disobedience, singing in courtroom: “Mr. Auctioneer, all the people here are asking you to stop all the sales right now.”

Brooklyn, NY — This afternoon approximately one hundred people peacefully and powerfully disrupted a foreclosure auction by bursting into song. At 3pm the foreclosure auctioneer attempted to start bidding on homes that had been foreclosed upon. When the bidding started, the courtroom burst into song:

“Mr. Auctioneer
All the people here
Are asking you to stop all the sales right now
We’re going to survive, but we don’t know how”

More video from inside the courtroom coming soon.

The National Lawyers Guild estimated that approximately 35 people were arrested. Those arrested continued to sing as they were handcuffed and escorted out of the courtroom.

In advance of the proceedings, Occupied Real Estate agents distributed brochures that profiled the properties up for auction with photos of protesters out front.

“If speculators want to bid on these listings they should know that they come with eviction defense activists from Occupy Wall Street,” said Danielle Moeser of Occupied Real Estate, a “realty agency” that lists properties available for occupation or in need of eviction defense.

Today’s action is part of a growing national movement committed to stopping foreclosures and keeping all Americans in their homes. Last month over 50 actions were carried out across the country, including foreclosure disruptions, eviction defense actions, and home reoccupations. Occupy Wall Street participants and other occupations across the country have been highly involved in these actions.

“We bailed out the big banks, and then they went on to foreclose on millions of families. That’s just heartless,” said Michael Premo, an organizer with Organizing for Occupation and Occupy Wall Street. “We’re committed to keeping homes occupied by people who need homes.”

For more information on action to stop foreclosures:
Organizing for Occupation
Occupy Homes

126 Comments

126 Comments


Read the Rules
[-] 6 points by antiglobb (47) 2 years ago

The italian goverment is following the same way. They answer to the pacific protests of the citizens beating them and putting them in prison. But the italians are determined to win. There are million of italians on strike. The riot is spreading all over the Country. They will go on as long as the victory. Follow italian news on my blog: "spectre2012.wordpress.com"

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Thank you for this update! I did not know things have progressed this far in Italy. God Bless You! We are with you to the end!!!

[-] 1 points by antiglobb (47) 2 years ago

And the italians will be with you to the end, too. Our aim has to build the world revolution against the capitalism, because it destroys the man and the nature. We have to fight for coming back of socialism anf the human solidarity. Follow my blog that deal of these things. "spectre2012.wordpress.com" Bye.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Grazie per questa informazione sulla situazione in Italia. Ti prego sappi che tutti i membri legittimi del Occupare movimento negli Stati Uniti si appoggio in voi gli sforzi per sconfiggere il sistema internazionale di realismo economico!

[-] 1 points by antiglobb (47) 2 years ago

Siamo sette miliardi di persone e abbiamo un'arma nuova tra le mani, che ci permette di essere come un uomo solo: il web. Non abbiamo più bisogno di partiti, né di sindacati, pronti a tradire qualsiasi causa per pochi dollari. Sono quelli che lavorano che producono la ricchezza e quindi devono essere essi stessi a governarsi. L'1% sono un gruppo di ominidi che vive sulle spalle degli altri, scatena guerre, impone tasse, ruba, mente e divora le risorse del mondo. La rivoluzione in corso porterà al potere i lavoratori e caccerà via per sempre i parassiti sociali. Poche sono le condizioni per vincere. Liberarsi degli opportunisti. Essere compatti e decisi nel perseguimento di un solo obiettivo: abbattere il capitalismo. Informarsi e informare 24 ore su 24.. Attacco senza sosta. Non mollare mai. Se riusciremo in questo intento, vinceremo nello spazio di pochi mesi. "spectre2012.wordpress.com"

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Translation from antiglobb:

We are seven billion people and we have a new weapon in our hands, which allows us to be as one: the web. We no longer need the parties nor trade unions, ready to betray any cause for a few dollars. We are the ones who work to produce wealth, and therefore must govern ourselves. The 1% are a group of people that live on the shoulders of others, unleashe wars, impose taxes, steal, devour the mind and the world's resources. The ongoing revolution will empower workers and chase away forever the social parasites. The conditions necessary to win are few. Getting rid of opportunists, being compact and resolute in the pursuit of one goal: to destroy capitalism. Become informed and inform 24 hours of 24 .. Attack relentlessly. Never give up. If we do that, we'll win in the space of a few months. "spectre2012.wordpress.com"

[-] 1 points by antiglobb (47) 2 years ago

Your translation is perfect. Next time I'll translate your message in italian, so we'll double the number of people who will realize our ideas. Congratulations, GypsyKing. Are you really a gypsy or a spaniard?

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Thanks for that. We need to get more international communication going . . . I am a paternal descendent of English settlers that arrived in Virginia in the 1650's, and two of my direct ancesters fought for the Colonial cause in the Revolutionary War. I am a Jeffersonian Democrat and a patriot.

The system in the USA now bares no resemblence to the ideals of the revolution.

[-] 1 points by antiglobb (47) 2 years ago

Jefferson was a Great. Now America is in the hand of little men who think just of their economic interests. The humanity needs now a new revolution, but this time it will be a world one. it's necessary a new idealism. Let's exchange our ideas. They are the means that spread about the will to change deeply the society. Run a blog and invite your friends to run one, too. Read the posts and comment them. This is the best way to know other ideas and propose them to everybody. No money in the banks, no goods in the supermarkets, no wars, no taxation without representation, no politic parties, no unions, let's represent just ourselves. Organize a large rally to tear the cards of political parties and unions. Stop elections, save your money, work just for yourself , buy just at the corner's shops and just local products. Let's go together in this direction. The best for you and for those who fight with you.

spectre2012.wordpress.com

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

The Best to all of you in Italy who are struggling against economic trranny! This is certainly an international effort. Unfortunately, the global corporations have created a de-facto global govenment, and this makes them very difficult to oppose effectively. That is why this MUST BE an international movement.

One problem that arises with this fact is the complexity of the differing approaches that must be taken in different nations. The political outlook of people in Italy might make one approach the best course, while in the USA another is needed. But we must learn from each other and, I believe, move in the direction of international democratic government, which I see as the only way to counter the power of international corporations.

An effort was made in this direction, of course, with first The League of Nations and then with The United Nations. But The United Nations has been rendered impotant by nationalism and by corporate power, and so I think we must ultimately try to create such an organization that holds real political power, and yet. I know that at this juncture that is a very long way off. But I think if the people of the world's nations unite in this cause, in the end it will be possible. We can always hope.

[-] 1 points by antiglobb (47) 2 years ago

If they have created a global dictatorship, we can create a global democracy, because we can still choose our representatives by the election. We have to realize in every Country a political party which inserts in its electoral lists only male and female workers and these people have to respond just to us. In this way we'll have a Congress or a Parliament formed exclusively by workers and a President worker. It's the simpler way to get to a direct democrazy. What do you think of these ideas?

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

I think they make a very worthy ultimate Goals! They are in line with my hopes completely, and where I think we MUST go! Global warming alone points out the necessity of global government to combat global problems. The nation state is obsolete.

[-] 1 points by AllOverIt (100) 2 years ago

You also need a survival plan to replace what you destroy. This is our solution www.the-communal-solution.us

[-] -2 points by Ninetyninenot (-57) 2 years ago

Win what? Italy will follow Greece. You loons don't seem to realize that while you can screw your creditors once, they aren't going to give you even more money that you won't pay back. At some point, the lenders smarten up and the borrowed money party is finished, for good. Of course, even then, the unions and other assorted retards can't seem to figure out what happened. Sure, protest lenders smartening up and cutting you off.

[-] 2 points by mserfas (652) from Ashland, PA 2 years ago

Gee, then why do the banks get a bailout every decade and their party never stops? Bush passed out nearly a trillion dollars like a plate of hors d'oeuvres, the bank officials took their multimillion dollar bonuses, and they proceeded to foreclose on more homes than they can possibly hope to sell. Now they're tearing down lots of them to get a tax deduction for donating them as "open space". If the result of even quite reasonable economic demands is that it becomes impossible for governments or individuals to get credit, and the conniving financial industry passes away forever from the earth, and people from there on out have to make the hard decisions about taxation and helping those in need up front without the bankers' "assistance", so much the better.

[-] -1 points by Ninetyninenot (-57) 2 years ago

Let's see, you want to see default as simply a trigger to keep what you bought with what you borrowed and then you wonder about getting more credit? LOL.

Credit dries up when the creditors get the joke about not being repaid. Truly, it isn't the complicated.

When you borrow money, buy something with it, and then default, defaulting triggers losing the collateral, not getting it for free. Truly, this isn't complicated either.

Socialist moonbats in Greece and Italy seem genuinely stunned that they can't borrow forever. It's remarkable. They protest their inability to keep borrowing what they'll never repay. You just can't make this stuff up.

[-] 1 points by mserfas (652) from Ashland, PA 2 years ago

See http://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1591&context=lcp&sei-redir=1 . Rafael Correa in Ecuador wrote off a substantial amount of money as "odious debt" and repaid it as 35 cents on the dollar. Now I'm not endorsing either the Duke document's recommendations, which would seem to herd governments into giving more power to lendors, nor Correa, who has made some substantial infringements on human rights. But in a country whose political process is substantially compromised by lobbyists from the finance sector, which has given out a tremendous amount of money to the finance sector, I think the debt secured from the finance sector to pay for that may well qualify as "odious debt".

[-] 1 points by socialsynergy (32) 2 years ago

Your a fool - its all debt money - every last penny produced by the central banks is debt money - the only way they can collect on all that debt money is by causing collapse after collapse - the idiots (people, business, government) build and build on debt (thinking they are getting something) then the bankers move in to collect on the debt- the system couldn't fall apart unless it was made to happen - it is man made and very predictable - its a scam - why do you think we constantly have collapses? Do you think it is an act of God or some supernatural event?.

Fact: We don't have enough cash in the world to cover all the debts. Enlighten me how then can the debts be paid? I assume those that hold debt want cash? or am I wrong?

Don't you find it the least bit curious that the very tool we use to pay debts doesn't actually exist to pay those debts?

Does it not concern you that financial institutions are lending and at the same time know that the money is not there in the system to cover these debts?

How much do you think your investments are worth if the cash to pay debts is not here? Not much.

Billionaires can and have been wiped out by this cheap fraud of a system. What chance does a pathetic millionaire have?

Wake up this" cash" tool is screwing everyone - cash does not equal capitalism. Cash is a tool - like fuel is to a car. Nothing more and nothing less. Thats what most folks don't understand. And cash is far dirtier than oil to build societies on.

Our societies are built on debt - National banks are indebted to central banks - business, individuals are indebted to banks- businesses are indebted to their employes and suppliers - and every time you walk into a store and put something in a basket; you are indebted to that store.

Its a giant ponzi scheme of epic proportions, with great deal of smoke and mirrors to hide the simplicity of the scam.( a lot of corruption to go with it)

[-] 0 points by Ninetyninenot (-57) 2 years ago

Be sure to bring this up with your therapist. LOL.

I know my investments are worth more if they're not in places like Greece and Italy and I know not to lend to people that won't pay it back.

Socialism runs dry when the borrowed money runs dry.

[-] 1 points by socialsynergy (32) 2 years ago

Your investments would be safer outside of America. (America should also be a part of the pig countries).

Enjoy quantitative easing 3.0. Any US dollar investment just took a haircut.

You must be a conservative trumpeting socialism. People like you give Republicans a bad name (makes them look like devolved monkeys).

Seems to me if capitalism is meant to generate wealth. The so called socialist countries have for the past 30 years kicked the capitalist @ss at this game.

Or is capitalism by your standards generating huge debt, go to war for no benefit and less freedom......Americas founding fathers are rolling in there graves at the utter stupidity.

I would explain it to you but I think it would pass over your head. Go back to reading the wall street journal and Forbes.(I look at these to when I want a laugh and watch what chimps like you are doing)

You don't know what communism is - its dead - has been for a while. Perhaps if you got out from under your 1950s rock or perhaps you've been ducking and covering under your desk all this time- you might know this.

When your investments tank; you can blame the communists for your problem (laugh).

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by TheIllusionCalledMoney (56) 2 years ago

99not: I applaud you for your continued insightful, intelligent, and quite profound comments and analysis. It's almost as if when I read your comments I am reading the works of Gandhi or Kind. Incredibly profound, breathtaking in fact. The vocabulary, the literary nuances, I've got goosebumps, phew.....

Just one question: For someone who disagrees with everything Occupy stands for, I'm curious why you spend the better part of each day commenting here on this forum.

Wishing you all the best.

[-] 1 points by antiglobb (47) 2 years ago

I've perfecty realized how the liberist system goes on. The italian workers have won because they have realidet that, too, and have blocked the transport of the goods from the producers to the consumers. The govern has stopped and doesn't know what has to do. It tells lies all the day long, but people don't believe to it.

[-] -2 points by Ninetyninenot (-57) 2 years ago

That's the other bizarre part. In tantrums over losing access to borrowed money, the unions turn out in strikes that make it all worse. But still, there's no more borrowed money because the creditors now realize that they won't be repaid.

The unions are like angry drunks finally being thrown out of a bar to sober up. Everyone knows they've had too much, except them.

[-] 2 points by antiglobb (47) 2 years ago

We don't care of the Unions and are happy to know that the creditors have no more money to lend, because that signifies the end of the capitalism.

[-] -1 points by Ninetyninenot (-57) 2 years ago

No, it signifies the end of socialism. Italy is going to reform or it's going to enter a grinding poverty not experienced since the war. The borrowed money that propped up its welfare state has run its course.

[-] 2 points by antiglobb (47) 2 years ago

I'm a fan of the socialism. If you are a fan of the capitalism, we'll agree never. If so, we'd better better to put an end to our discussion.

[-] -1 points by Ninetyninenot (-57) 2 years ago

Socialism is really neat until you run out of someone else's money. Then it's not so neat. Then you face that what is spent, must be earned. That's Greece and that's Italy.

[-] 3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Seems the same could be said for capitalism.

They ran out of OPs money and hit up the tax payers all over the World for trillions.

Why do think they keep trying to get their grubby hands on SS?

[-] -1 points by Ninetyninenot (-57) 2 years ago

No, they didn't. It was a giant bank run. Taxpayers provided the liquidity to survive the crisis. Funding LIQUIDITY needs gets paid back. Funding SOLVENCY needs doesn't. Greece and Italy aren't about liquidity, they're about spending money they'll never repay, that's a solvency problem. Creditors are right to now cut them off.

The ride is finished. Welfare states funded with borrowed money are hitting the wall.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

The truth stares you in the face, and you can still make stuff up??

Priceless.............................:)

[-] -2 points by Ninetyninenot (-57) 2 years ago

The truth is there, yes it is. Deadbeats across Europe are getting cut off by creditors. The drunks are getting kicked out the bar and they utterly can't understand why. Running welfare states off of borrowed money has reached its end game.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

FLAKESnews couldn't have put it better.

Just ignore the facts and make stuff up.

You could write "news" copy for them.

Have you put in your application yet?

High IQ not required, it's in fact, a detriment to employment.

[-] -2 points by Ninetyninenot (-57) 2 years ago

Seriously, would you be dumb enough to lend to Greece? I guess, yes.

Borrowing money eventually hits a wall, just like across Europe. Welfare states excel at passing out the goodies, just not at paying for them. But that's what they now face... for a generation.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

FLAKESnews is "right" for you.

Put in yer app.

Buzz words, Leading "testimony", (R)epelican't talking points, mild invectives.

You could get a real job, writing propaganda for the GOP!!!!!!

[-] 2 points by chuck1al (1074) from Flomaton, AL 2 years ago

@ Ninetyninenot....When Governments and Corporations join in planing the Economy it's called "Fascism".

[-] -1 points by Ninetyninenot (-57) 2 years ago

When socialists using credit cards run an economy it's called a doomed welfare state.

[-] 1 points by chuck1al (1074) from Flomaton, AL 2 years ago

@Ninetyninenot...To bad you don't know what Socialism is.

[+] -7 points by Carlitini99 (-167) 2 years ago

You want us to follow the Italians. What a joke, maybe the captain of the sunk Italian cruise ship went on strike right below sinking his ship.

[-] 2 points by antiglobb (47) 2 years ago

I've invited the americans on strike to follow the system adopted by the italian protesters who have the same problems of you, because I think that the revolution has to be a world one, if we want that eberybody has got the same right to live. I haven't invited them to follow the shameful captain Schettino, who is hated by all the italians. I appreciate your humour, but we have to think that it's different by the reality. I run a blog just to get that other people know these ideas. "spectre2012.wordpress.com"

[-] 4 points by socialsynergy (32) 2 years ago

A serious legal challenge should be mounted over the legitimacy of not just mortgage debt but all debt.

How many understand that if they provide a down payment for any debt that they have funded their own debt? How many understand that the banking institutions have put up nothing for this debt but reap massive rewards off of illegitimate compound interest.

How many understand that the banks borrow money from the fed or central bank and are able to multiply what they borrow by up to 19 x.(but the real cash does not physically exist)

Cute, create debt and demand physical cash to be paid but that cash is non existent - conveniently they are also the ones who control the flow of cash so that you can pay.what they already should know; cant be paid.

Simply put these institutions are signing loan agreements with individual and corporate people they know ahead of time cant be paid.

How many people understand that there is not enough cash in the system to pay for the debts? If the cash to pay is not here then the debts cant be payed. Its that simple.

How many understand that this is by design? Its a man made system and all the dreadful problems with it are man made. It is not magic.

If you own a business or have assets of any sort; are you not concerned that if the cash to cover debt is not here - what is your assets really worth? If we cant cover our debts with cash then we most certainly do not have the money for any of our assets.

Imagine 4 people get together on an island. 1 becomes a central banker and agrees to print money and charge interest. He convinces 1 of the other 4 to become the island banker (the central banks only customer). The island banker says wait a minute. If you print the money and charge me interest - how do I pay you back the original dollar never mind the interest? (he sees that if there is only one place he can get the money he is perpetually in debt) The central banker says don't worry. We are going to get a third guy and he is going to run a business. I am going to give you lots of money but you can inflate this money up to 19x whatever I give you. You lend this out to the business guy at even higher rates of interest. The business guy will hire the last guy on the island and get him to work for nothing and then pay him with that borrowed money. The central banker says to the island banker not to worry - the business guy is an idiot, the worker guy is an even bigger idiot - by the time they figure out that they really have nothing but the debt we provide to them - we own them and everything they make - they are our slaves. In a small way this is essentially what is taking place on a huge scale- the fraud is easy to hide when instead of 4 people you have billions - all playing their part. But the result is the same. Fall from 100 feet or a thousand feet your screwed. A scam like this with billions when it falls - is epic.

We run debt systems people! This is the problem. This is the only thing that needs changing right now. This debt system is responsible for the bad corporate behavior. This debt system is responsible for huge amounts of environmental, social problems by the nature in which it infects the activities of business, politics and law. (if your not growing your dieing)

This debt system is responsible for the rising levels of poverty. Business 101 - you want to make money - you take as much money as you can from the person next to you and leave them broke. Its primitive and outdated. Most wealthy or business people don't understand this. What can a broke customer purchase. NOTHING. What innovation can this produce?This is not capitalism - its suicide.

Success, wealth, business, government, education, capitalism, communism is not the problem.

It is the money system and its mechanics or how it operates that is the problem. Capitalism can use anything as a tool for trade and people can succeed if they wish. The tool we use as a capitalist or communist is the same tool to mediate trade - the money tool - it is a separate entity onto itself. This is critical to understanding the problem.

This is a debt system that generates massive debt. At the same time that debt is viewed as bad - this in turn causes everything that the money system infects to now act in an obscene way - everything the 99% complain about is because of the mechanics of this money system. Capitalism has been hijacked by what is nothing more than a simple back ally shell game scam.

If the very money system that underpins everything is in fact a debt system - then how can anyone - corporate or otherwise be held responsible for debt? If there is not enough money to pay debts and the same people in many ways control both debt and the flow of money - then they can bankrupt anyone - anytime they want - including governments.

The early roman empire forbid this money scam we use today because they understood that it would threaten their budding empire. During the dark ages it was forbidden. And we consider ourselves modern (laugh). Our leaders, courts and most people don't understand money for what it is or what it represents.

Think about the slave trade in America in the south. In the north they accepted the new money system - both European inventions exported to America. America engaged in civil war over the issues. Ask yourself a simple question? If a business could use slaves would they need a loan from a banker? NO. America has been played a fool by old colonial powers. Now instead of black slaves - we are all slaves. Slavery in all forms and manner is an abomination to life and so is this money system.If America was a nation of innovation they would innovate a new financial apparatus to replace money.

If America or any country continues with this monetary scam - they will be dead countries in 2-5 years.

Just one more thought - Why is it better to tax the rich more? Is it not just as good to demand the 15% tax rate for all that pay more than 15%?

Why is everyone getting screwed by paying more tax considered fare?

All people should demand the 15% Romney rate of tax. Now that's fare.

Good luck guys - start putting the blame where it belongs - many business folk should be out there with you.

[-] 1 points by Daddoo (1) 2 years ago

What do you suggest we use if not money?

[-] 1 points by socialsynergy (32) 2 years ago

Money itself as an item is not the problem - its the mechanism behind money that's the problem - realistically you could take any material and give it value and agree to trade with it but what matters most is the structure or mechanism that drives money or money alternative that is critical.

Take the gold standard - the structure of the gold standard in a very simplified way at its core is not all that different in its function than what we use today. I would not advocate a gold standard today- its just as bad and limiting and would be a mistake.

Even this system we have now could prove useful but not as it stands today. It was never designed for 7 billion people - when it was first designed the entire earth had under 2 billion people - coincidentally about 2- 2,5 billion people is the optimal number for our current system given it mechanisms of work and the resource use needed for it to function without the problems we see now.

Why do people always think in a a singular monolithic sense?

Do you only eat rice at dinner or do you add meat and veg?

The way forward for us is IMHO not just 1 single monetary system but 3 very separate systems that work both together and independently with in each country or blocks of countries. Each monetary system/structure would feed off of the negatives the other produces. While one might produce what we know as debt - that debt will become the fuel that drives the other - the third would act as a cohesive between the other two. We could eliminate debt, poverty - eliminate everything that currently holds us back - such a system would solve huge problems and open the door to innovation that would make this past century look like the prehistoric age.

I'm a pretty hard core capitalist in my views (but I am adamantly opposed to money as it is used today out of pure principle)- I understand that some people are more of a social mindset and respect this - why not have a way that helps those people of both mindsets; while at the same time gives greater opportunity to those that are more capitalist or socialist. Its called freedom.

Look thousands of years ago people traded and made money and wealth but the structure of the money system then was substantially different than the structure we use today.

Ask yourself this - If companies could do their business without financial impact to doing it better and cleaner - how many wouldn't do it?

What would the US government look like if money became a non issue for them to fight about?I'm not sure they would no what to do.(laugh)

What if it was possible to give people healthcare and make money; while giving everyone a tax break, how about free education that would earn the schools more money and provide stellar education to everyone that wanted it - perhaps even pay students to go to school? - no cuts or increased taxes anywhere? How about a few more billionaires without creating swaths of poverty. We cant do it now but with a trinity or triple economic system we could. We could do a lot and support a lot more people on this planet.

Most folks I have talked to always ask the question you just asked. Hope if nothing else it gets you thinking.

[-] 0 points by XenuLives (1645) from Charlotte, NC 2 years ago

And how would this work exactly? I like the idea, but it sounds like there would be a lot of details that need to be worked out.

[-] 1 points by socialsynergy (32) 2 years ago

It is actually quite simple. But your absolutely right about the details.

That is where it gets more complex but in a natural way once you wrap your head around it..

Every country or groups of countries would have a somewhat unique operation but the main principle of operation would be the same.

The first of the three economies we are already using right now. The trouble with what we have now is that we have out grown in it in a very real sense. Its all about scale. Just because something works at a particular scale does not necessarily mean that if you scale up or down that it will still function. Any economist would agree that at least in America around the 1950s or so - the current system was far more solid compared with today. So i would roll back what we have now too function as it once did.This could be achieved quite easily with the introduction of the second economy with little to no issue - likely great benefit. This first economy would be used for a small amount of domestic use but would become more of an economy for international trade - the tip of the spear for a nations economy - its well placed for this already.

The second system I would, and this is just to give you ideas because this would function somewhat differently in each country or country group. The second economy would be for domestic purpose only. This would become a commodity(loosely speaking on the term commodity) based economy- somewhat like the gold backed system of yesteryear but a totally truly cashless economy.

Although it would be backed by a commodity and also cashless it would also have heavy elements of trade and barter underpinning the day to day transactions. I'm not talking about trading apples for oranges but something more complex (this would take more time to explain but again we are already using it in a way). And this second economy would also be completely digital.

the third economy would act as a go between for both the other two economies - this would be quite small compared to the other two.

To get you thinking and asking questions - let me explain a bit more - business, companies and individuals would operate in only 1,2 or all three of these economies depending on a number of factors.

The 1st economy is what we pretty much use now - it would be for corporations, high net worth or high earners above a certain amount and some others. Taxes could be and this is an arbitrary amount 25% no exceptions across the board - keep it simple no complex tax code - this is what you pay and that's it. This tax, in addition to specifically designed foreign investment revenue streams would pay for the commodities (I use the term commodities but I mean it loosely to provide perspective) this would fund or back the second economy or the domestic economy.

Now the second economy would be a truly cashless society.( We already have this running - its just flawed) Everything and everyone who depends on taxes to be paid for their employment today -politician, police, judges, education, military...... and the vast majority of people that are under a certain net worth or by choice would become the main users of this second economy. our manufacturers and R & D would also be placed here. It would be an interest free, very limited tax or no tax for most (tax would be a little different than what we are used to now and for a very limited purpose - also simple) The critical part to this second economy - everyone will be paid something.( laugh but im serious) current value that goes untapped will be tapped. (Imagine for a moment that all those volunteers and others that do unpaid valuable work could be paid for what they do? Volunteers working to rebuild after natural disaster could earn (turn our crap into gold). How fast could debt be paid and/or completely avoided if this was the case? If debt was virtually eradicated how much innovation could this group alone fund? Or settle for less and save the environment - How about a student that is paid to learn and not have debt?(they could pay for their own education) How about the military and politicians when they pay taxes on their salaries under this second economy - debt is easy eliminated (im getting ahead of myself - to understand this I would have to explain how we flip current debt from one system to the other) or better yet think, the bigger the government/military/education or the working welfare (not meant to be derogatory but more to make a point - tax comes from somewhere and this tax money competes with business and adds constantly to huge amounts of debt) - they become not debt but an asset under this second economy (they actually generate real value - with no tax burden on anyone in the second economy - other than the tax and specific investment I mentioned before from the first economy (they pay for themselves and then some)

Something to keep in mind is that the 25% tax on the first economy is not a welfare payment or useless black hole tax like today - it provides the foundations for a much more stable, educated, innovative society, no poverty - which would become the power house for the first economy engaged in global trade on behalf of the country (the tip of the spear)-

Each economy benefits the other and drives the quality of each economy up in a balanced way. With out crashing and burning over and over again.

Again the third system would work with the other two - when you understand the other two and how they operate and inter operate the third would become obvious. It provides a bridge between cash and cashless economies. Look, right now they raise and lower interest rates to control things, we have a limited number of levers to pull on our current monolithic singular system. Having three economies working together as one - the levers to pull grow exponentially and provide much more stability and balance than we have now - without the negative BS.

to express this completely on a forum in this manner is difficult. Try explain in complete detail the tax code we use today on here - not realistic.

This concept of a new economy involves understanding the monetary system and adjusting it, understanding the tax system and adjusting it, business, social needs, political needs, resources - aligning current competing mindsets to work in a more synergistic way for mutual long term benefit.

So in a way it requires a great deal of conversation and back and forth..

Frankly its better to talk in person about this. I find using both speech and manipulatives works best because it is complex in the details (try explaining the current money system to most folks verbally and they are lost .The money system today is simple in my view - this is far more complex to explain in part because it is flexible and can take many forms. It also impacts all parts of society.

Perhaps restructuring of the details we use now is a better way at looking at it

Truth be told it would take a good dozen people and 6 - 9 months of long hard days to hammer out all the details for a single country. But once it was working it would move on its own very naturally. Not like what we have today - something based on pure belief (how bogus is that? stop believing or spending and what we use today is dead along with everything we know)- this other system would work if you believed in it or not.

Thats enough for now - happy to talk back and forth with you.

[-] 0 points by XenuLives (1645) from Charlotte, NC 2 years ago

Your idea is really interesting and is indeed something that I would want to talk about in person. I think that you should take this text and post in on a blog or somewhere more permanent than this forum.

There is a big sticking point in my head: What would you do to get people to switch over the the 2nd system? Nearly everybody is heavily "invested" in the first economy, so there would have to be some sort of conversion mechanism. Also, as an employer how would I pay these employees who opt for the second economy? I know you mentioned the third economy to be the intermediary between the two... So I guess that there would need to be a government department that managed the third economy and the conversions?

The biggest hurdle, once the details are worked out, would be to convince enough people to try it to make a difference. I could see a commune similar to an Amish town work off of just the second economy, but you would need to get that many people to join you, buy the land, initial materials, etc.

[-] 1 points by socialsynergy (32) 2 years ago

Its easy to get the people to move to the second economy because it will provide for them what they want in every aspect.Everything the congress is fighting about on both sides would be solved. Everything that the 99% are complaining about would cease to be an issue. You wouldn't see a homeless soldier or family unless thats what they chose.

This structure would kick into gear manufacturing, research and development, education, health and so many other fields into high gear, businesses that currently would not be viable would be very viable.

Give everyone what they want and use what people want to mutual benefit = happiness = success beyond imagination.

Lets say I have a a billion in investments right now. Things are not good and very quickly i can lose it all (most don't understand this) - it has and does happen.

Now what if I could get you to invest into the second economy in a way that furthers and secures investment in the first. You now have multiple investments in not one but two economies. because of the way the two economies work - the wealth will slide one way or another without collapse of the investment or society (you may lose money if you invest in complete rubbish - like flipper warmers for fish). Instead of losing money on an investment it would shift to make the other more profitable - like a pendulum - effectively kiss losses good by - instead of a hundred year business we could create businesses that last 1000 years. Your investments would not only be safer but infinitely more profitable without all the BS we have now. What we use now is rubbish - I like to say its the game that even when you win, you lose.

Businesses that would operate in the second economy would become just as wealthy as any business in the first (some businesses would operate in both). The second economy would be structured to avoid inflationary pressure, debt and interest. This will keep the cost of everything much, much lower - even static - globally(in countries that used this model) this would reduce fluctuations in costs of manufacturing/business - like it being cheaper in china than America to make stuff - it would make an even playing field that would produce some very interesting revenue streams and opportunities we don't have now, while also securing national integrity ..It would essentially operate in a completely opposite way to the first economy. This helps with balance, competition, sustainable growth, provides unlimited potential.

Wealth would be built for all people and lets face it - you cant make money off of people with no money. Switching, in short would create more wealth and security against losses. I no brainer to anyone that is investing really. Frankly in my mind it would be more of a problem controlling the investment influx into the second economy - because it would be such a sweet deal.

I could demonstrate all this in hypothetical way = in a stream of interaction between the economies using several business types - this would probably be the easiest way at understanding some possibilities.

Your right, the third economy would be some government, some financial business and a few others. The third would facilitate cash to cashless transactions and other duties - its purpose is for making the other two work.

As an employer in the second economy you would pay in much the same way you would in the first. But again this can be designed in several or multiple ways of compensation.(if people get fed, have a roof over their head, send their kids to school without debt, are happy, have opportunity to pursue what they want to do and live without a lot less stress - people would accept many forms of different payment - as a business man if you can gain more wealth - who cares how the transaction takes place- money is not wealth; its what the money can buy that makes one wealthy)The more options the better (there is some very interesting options for value/payment structure in my mind).

We have a tendency to blow wind into our own sails - im thinking we put our sails into the wind that is blowing strong.

No need to buy land - we have everything we need in operation already = All we need is a restructuring. convince wall street that they could make much more money than they are now. They could Increase investment opportunity 10 fold and remove the issue of loss, while making the 99% much happier and wall street folk much safer - what idiot would not take it?

Ask yourself this - would the 99% give a crap about the so called 1% if what the one percent did; did not cause the 99% problems? No.

Convince the 1% that it is safer/better for them to do business in a different way. 70 million vs 6.9 billion people - not good odds when it comes undone. In the medium and long run it would be a smart self preservation decision and investment decision for the 1%.

Seems if we have the tools to make it, the motivation is there on all sides for one reason or another - Why is it not being done?

This would not work on small scale (it wouldn't work 100 years ago but now is the perfect time) - it needs to go large or forget it. In fact we have two countries that could make this happen and make it work - China or America.

Frankly i think we are screwed and folks seem hell bent on learning the hard way how screwed we are. It would be easier to do something like this new economy than any other alternative.

Many people are talking these days and not doing - those that can do seem to be doing nothing - those that want to do dont have what they need to do and together we are all screwed wealthy or poor.

It will happen ( a new economy) eventually and the country that does it first and does it right will lift their nation into the future - the rest can play follow the leader.

[-] 1 points by AllOverIt (100) 2 years ago

We need to demand a share of the land and its resources as our birthrights. Secure people that don't need jobs for food and shelter but have these things as their right have different responses than those that must depend on corporate wages or government jobs and handouts to secure them. The United States of America has a land mass of 3,717,813 square miles; the US government holds and controls around 30% of that land and buys more each year. That is equivalent to 1,115,344 square miles and is equal to the combined land masses of Great Britain, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Poland, Greece, New Zealand, Ireland, Bahrain, Hong Kong, Liechtenstein, the Cayman Islands, Anguilla, and Bermuda. So why is anybody homeless in this country? Why are people with kids forced to live in tent cities without basic facilities for their hygiene? Because it benefits our profit system to keep it this way. It is time to end it.

After reviewing the federal and state Constitutions created in his absence Thomas Jefferson had this to say about the federal constitution on November 13, 1787, in a letter to William S. Smith: "There are very good articles in it: & very bad. I do not know which preponderate." He wrote amendments but they arrived too late to be considered. It is up to us to create the rules of this land that are fair to each of us. If it means replacing the government with one that serves us then, per that very constitution, it is our DUTY to do so. http://www.history.org/Foundation/journal/Spring07/jefferson.cfm

[-] 1 points by Mooks (1985) 2 years ago

Land is not the same as shelter. You can give a homeless guy a plot of land and he is still going to sleep on the ground.

[-] 1 points by AllOverIt (100) 2 years ago

Your statement is too much a generality. Some mentally ill people might respond that way. Even they look for food each day and do some work to get it. If every person had the right, from birth, to land and resources we would not have forclosures, nor war, nor poverty and probably not even mental illness. All of our creativity would be directed at things that protect the land, the ecosystems and the future generations - not profit. Our quest for profit buys us greed, wars, great wealth and greater poverty and the destruction of the life systems that bring us food, warmth and shelter.

[-] 1 points by Mooks (1985) 2 years ago

Do you really think a system like that is feasible here in the US?

It is a pretty radical proposal and I would think that the majority of Americans are happy enough with their lives that they would not want to see such a radical change.

[-] 1 points by AllOverIt (100) 2 years ago

I'm sure you are right and I'm sure that those happy Americans don't think too much about what the affects of their massive consumption and expansion capitalism has on the eco systems of the world. They don't think about the affects of creating children in an already heavily populated planet with fish depleted by 75% and the water supply in crisis. They don't think about the families living in tent cities and use the policing systems to keep those "nasty losers" out of sight. We just go on living our happy lives as though none of this matters and because we ignore these issues to protect the "American Dream" when we fall over the edge of the tipping point we will suffer horribly for it.

[-] 2 points by Mooks (1985) 2 years ago

For better or worse, most of that is correct. Things have to get much worse for mainstream America for them to want to do something radical.

[-] 1 points by AllOverIt (100) 2 years ago

The first of us have fallen off that edge and thus we have Occupy movements all over the planet.

[-] 1 points by TheIllusionCalledMoney (56) 2 years ago

Very, very, very well said. Why isn't the whole planet yet in revolution? Why has it taken so long for even Occupy to take root? The answer is simple; to quote Josef Goebbels from Nazi Germany, "The bigger the lie, the more people will believe it". Perhaps the biggest lie ever conceived of in the history of humanity is the lie called money. No one understands what it truly is, and most of those that begin to investigate what it is, upon learning the truth, immediately shut down in denial, having been sold the biggest lie of their lives. It is only because now in 2012 people have hit such rock bottom, having nothing to lose, they are finally willing to begin to understand, awake and accept the Ponzi scheme they once called money. It's a brutal blow to one's existence - having believed one thing their entire lives - to then wake up to the reality that it's the exact opposite of what you have been told/taught is perhaps the most difficult thing that can happen to a person. Remember the Matrix....

Another brilliant quote by one of the richest men in history, who acknowledged in writing that the same illusion called money that made him rich, was in fact an illusion that no one, except the bankers themselves, truly understood:

“The modern banking system manufactures money out of nothing. The process is perhaps the most astounding piece of sleight of hand that was ever invented.

Banking was conceived in iniquity and born in sin. Bankers own the Earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create money, and with the flick of the pen they will create enough money to buy it back again…

Take this great power away from them and all great fortunes like mine will disappear, and they ought to disappear, for then this would be a better and happier world to live in. But if you want to continue to be slaves of the banks and pay the cost of your own slavery, then let bankers continue to create money and control credit”.

Sir Josiah Stamp Director, Bank of England 1928-1941 (reputed to be the 2nd richest man in Britain at the time)

[-] 1 points by HarryCrew07 (433) 2 years ago

Too many of us are still too comfortable to change. Until those who are comfortable are as upset as those who aren't, there will not be change ;(

[-] 2 points by TheIllusionCalledMoney (56) 2 years ago

Yes, all good responses. Intuitively, I think we all feel "it's" coming: a world where we do end up realizing that we are all the same and to cooperate and share is the answer, while to choose to continue blindly down the road of individualism and more and more for me is a dead end for both the self and humanity.

[-] 0 points by socialsynergy (32) 2 years ago

It funny you say this - I was an odd kid and took an interest in finance when I was young - studied it on my own before the age of the internet - it was on my own that I discovered what money is and how it works - I was quite young and it floored me.

Not sure its done me much good (probably would have been more successful in life not knowing) - its always troubled me - more so, how so many seem not to notice what is so obvious (at least once you know).

But I could never find anyone to tell (most 16 year old kids care little of such things)- KNOW ONE gets it -even today it is incredibly difficult to get people to understand - even intelligent people.

It is only very recently that I began speaking about it again, in the past couple of years or so (teaching my kids).

The strange thing is as soon as you speak of money; people seem to stop thinking. If you take a money principle and use something else other than money to describe the exact same principle - people get it.

Nice quotes - more people need to speak more truthfully about this subject. I have always said that they don't lie but they don't tell the truth either.

I'm not so certain many bankers even understand it in 2012. That is why its collapsing so bad (they pushed the limit, milked the cow dead) - idiots or unwitting heroes (laugh) only history will decide.

A case of the propagandist believing their own propaganda and forgetting reality - always dangerous.

Thanks for sharing.

[-] 1 points by TheIllusionCalledMoney (56) 2 years ago

Yes, well said. Another gem on why the world is steeped in ignorance and disbelief::

“Only the small secrets need to be protected. The big ones are kept secret by public incredulity.” Marshall McLuhan

Check out this page for a load of more amazing quotes. Just be careful, don't forward it to anyone who's taken the blue pill, as it might cause "their machine" to lock up. Knowledge is power.

http://paulgrignon.netfirms.com/MoneyasDebt/references.htm

[-] 0 points by AllOverIt (100) 2 years ago

You asked "Why isn't the whole planet yet in revolution?" Because we are served by the status quo. If, by tearing up our deeds and fairly sharing resources, we could end wars, poverty and human desperation how many would step up, deeds in hand, and say "It is worth it for the end of these terrible things and for the sake of humanity to create a system that is fair to us all." How many?

[Removed]

[-] 3 points by JPB950 (2254) 2 years ago

Did you stop any auctions?

[-] 1 points by jrabbit (4) 2 years ago

They stopped 3.

[-] 2 points by JPB950 (2254) 2 years ago

Even one saved home is good, I'm surprised though. Movements that only demonstrate and never get into developing a political power typically fade. How many homes were actually auctions and was your success real or is it just that no one bid on three of the homes? The one article in the voice seems to indicate that once protestors were cleared out the auction went on as planned.

[-] 1 points by OccupyNews (1183) 2 years ago

Yes, that is what really matters.

[-] 1 points by JPB950 (2254) 2 years ago

Success is all that matters if your going to stay relevant. I'm curious how they measured success in this case. hundreds of homes are offered at auction, they don't always sell with or without a demonstration. I can't find a news article that gives any details of the auction.

The one article in the voice seems to indicate that once protestors were cleared out the auction went on as planned.

[-] 1 points by OccupyNews (1183) 2 years ago

which means the protestors should have gone in, in waves, rather than all at once.

If there were not enough to go in in waves, then go off one at a time. wait until the auction starts again, then repeat the protest. Otherwise, what was the point but to lose?

[-] 1 points by JPB950 (2254) 2 years ago

I'm never sure what the point is. Some groups the point is the organization, not actually what you are protesting.

[-] 1 points by OccupyNews (1183) 2 years ago

Ouch, that hurts! I hope you are not right.

If the group was proud of their actions whether or not their protest was as effective as possible in stopping the auctions (while practicing non-violence), then your accusation would be right.

I hope you are not right.

[-] 1 points by JPB950 (2254) 2 years ago

That statement comes from a different era of protestors, from my college days. It's an old personal bias built from experience. The faculty advisor was a believer in some form of socialistic/anarchy. He advised us to take on hopeless causes to built membership and strength and to avoid the success of easier issues.

[-] 1 points by OccupyNews (1183) 2 years ago

Interesting, but there is a middle position, taking on hopeless causes, and winning as a method of building membership and strength.

[-] 3 points by Skyeskye1 (49) 2 years ago

Occupy you are awesome. Again thank you for hanging in there for so many months! love you guys! thank you!

[-] 2 points by ForwardWeGo (99) 2 years ago

Truth Force!

[-] 2 points by OccupyNews (1183) 2 years ago

I hear Obama is searching for the Killer of Nicole Brown Simpson, oh wait, he's going to investigate those wascally wabbits on wall street, after being in office three years.

Now that's a quick response. lol, and he stages a seal invasion just before his state of the union address along with a Gabby Gifford tribute.

Give em a show while millions get screwed over on their mortgage deals.

[-] 2 points by TheIllusionCalledMoney (56) 2 years ago

Great comment. It's funny. Sometimes the most effective way to get the truth across is to use satire. People seem immune today to facts, ironically enough. Just look at the BS election circus going on once in our beloved "democracy" and it's so clear that people cannot see the truth through the BS. But a comment like the above, with a heavy dose of satire, seems to be pretty effective. This is the kind of stuff, along with the facts, that need to be pushed into the faces of the powers that were and the people as well to wake them up to the true reality. Michael Moore does a great job with this style of in your face satire combined with truth. Loved it when he wrapped that Crime Scene flagging tape around Chase bank in his movie Capitalism A Love Story - so damn effective: http://vimeo.com/30174019

[-] 1 points by OccupyNews (1183) 2 years ago

I wish Moore had stayed neutral in 2008. I understand his hate of the Iraq war shifted his loyalty from neutral to Barack Obama, however blaming Hillary Clinton for the war in Iraq, as he was doing by taking his position, I believe has hurt millions of americans who are being screwed over by the foreclosure crisis in this country.

[-] 2 points by proudofOKC (361) 2 years ago

Good luck!

[-] 2 points by ZPASTRONAUT (4) 2 years ago

Let your heart sing, let your song to be heard! I’m going to sleep, and I will dream with it!

Tomorrow we will be a bit older, And we will look a little odder!

It was really me? Where did I put my pants, Lee?

I go out, and I feel great, Suddenly my eyes become a big lake.

No more walls, no more streets, Everything freely leaks,

Like the song of liberty, We will soon become free!

[-] 2 points by Skyeskye1 (49) 2 years ago

God bless you guys. Always!

[-] 2 points by dnice (1) 2 years ago

yes!

[-] -2 points by Ninetyninenot (-57) 2 years ago

Yes, what? A bunch of goons show up with chants, but no checks. See, houses don't become yours just because you've stopped paying for it and you have friends that talk in unison.

[-] 1 points by AllOverIt (100) 2 years ago

No they become yours if you are a banker and have set up a system in which it is impossible for people to retain what they have worked hard to acquire but instead, by rigging it in your favor, you can deny people the right to land and shelter and cause unlimited suffering so you can profit. Nice system! NOT.

[-] 0 points by Ninetyninenot (-57) 2 years ago

Really, it's impossible? Psst, let me tell you a secret. The more stuff you buy with borrowed money, the more vulnerable you are to downturns and misfortune. Seriously, it's true. Borrowing money is a choice. That's true too. I know, who knew, right? The amount of money you borrow is also a choice. What you buy with borrowed money is yet another choice. You have countless forms of housing to choose from. They range from one room apartments on the railroad tracks to multi-million dollar estates.

Pick something that fits your situation. Make a quality choice. Are you really this fucking useless where you have to told this stuff? You're a grown up, right?

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

few can afford property without a loan

[-] 0 points by Ninetyninenot (-57) 2 years ago

Sit down and brace yourself.... R E N T. You have countless choices. If you're too impaired to find something that suits you, ask your guardian for help.

Here's how you buy something. Borrow money, buy a house, pay the money back, keep what you bought with the borrowed money. To make completion of the process more likely, you make choices of how much to borrow and what to buy.

Here's not how to buy something. Borrow money, buy a house, don't pay the money back, keep the house anyways. Chanting doesn't help.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

and the people across the big wide ocean

do they really drop bombs on other people? daddy

[-] 1 points by AllOverIt (100) 2 years ago

Momma said, don't engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed man. Bye.

[-] 2 points by TheIllusionCalledMoney (56) 2 years ago

Yes, “The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.” Wonder how long this 99guy will continue to Occupy the Forum? Doesn't he realize that he can spend the next day, week, month or year here but it won't make a difference in the outcome. Think Einstein said something about the definition of insanity was doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Well, in the mean time,I personally will continue to get a chuckle out of it. Hope he'll join us for a drink when we all finally come together as one.

[-] 1 points by AllOverIt (100) 2 years ago

I really like your comment. Thanks.

[-] 1 points by Lois68 (7) 2 years ago

"Investors" are buying these homes and then will be renting them out. People with college degrees cannot afford mortgages. This is a monopoly. We need real estate antitrust laws. We also need to eviscerate the corrupt labor movement in this country that hands out father-to-son bloated overpaid blue collar jobs to cronies.

[-] 1 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

this is what democracy looks like!!

[-] 1 points by squeezy123 (5) 2 years ago

I was just thinking; what if the bank was foreclosing because those people couldn't afford to keep up their payments. What if the reason for that was actually that those people tried to buy the biggest house they thought they could afford instead of the smallest house they NEEDED. Maybe the banks wouldn't have to be so "unfair" if we were smarter and didn't try to stretch our budgets so far.

[-] 1 points by socialsynergy (32) 2 years ago

Big house or small house is not the question - the question should be - Have these people that lost their homes provided a down payment on their home?

Anyone who provides a down payment for any loan has funded their own debt. The bank quite honestly has put up nothing besides interests rates.

As long as the banks don't spend the deposit money a mortgage holder gives. The bank can never lose a cent and there is no real legitimate reason for anyone to lose their property. EVER.

Even if a bank were to offer 100% mortgages and those mortgages defaulted - the bank is out only 5 - 10 thousand cash per hundred thousand dollars of debt.

If they the banks raise the interest rates to the point that people cant pay - they take your assets. Thats theft.

Now, most contracts are set up to provide somewhat of a mutual benefit between two parties. Otherwise whats the point of entering into a contract of no benefit? Would you sign a contract that gave you no benefit?

The contract between a lender and mortgage holder - whats the benefit to the mortgage holder? The bank puts up nothing, they have no risk, they didn't even build the house.

The mortgage holder has payed a down payment to secure their own debt, the mortgage holder risks losing everything in the transaction, the mortgage holder must pay for all maintenance of the property, the mortgage holder is responsible for all the taxes.

What exactly is the banks responsibility?

What exactly have the banks provided besides paper work, an interest rate, and no real responsibility. While the bank can take a home; what can the mortgage holder do to the bank? Nothing really.

Most contract law forbids this sort of transaction. One party has ALL the liability/responsibility and NO power.

While the other(bank) has NO liability/responsibility and ALL the power.

Whats the point of such a contract? I don't see any fair, honest or mutual shared undertaking of risk or benefit.

The bank risks nothing and has remedy to take everything even after years of payments.

No excuses can be made for the mortgage debacle - it was deliberate.

Every other home owner who has watched their home values fall and still lives in their home - look at the banks - its their fault.

The banks have effectively screwed every homeowner, not just those that have lost their home.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28150) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Growing positive activism.

We will continue to grow and unite in common cause for the good of all.

Onward Occupy & 99%. We are making a difference.

[-] 1 points by fatimah (5) 2 years ago

We all know the entities that created and caused this mess.The question is how do we go about correcting this debacle.Someone wrote that the banks got bailed by taxpayers and then foreclosed on homes for which they had no proper documentation in many instances and did robo signings(fraudently) on milions of people who were actually paying their mortage.Allow principal forgiveness and refinacing at lower rates for all who were wronged and proceed with investigations and arrests for those entities who engaged in criminal activities.Screw Rick Santelli and those idiots!

[-] 1 points by JenFlores (6) 2 years ago

My friend, a young mom, had her home foreclosed in 2006 and found evidence her mortgage payment was applied elsewhere by two rogue federal agents who didn't like she was a labor dissident and activist. The evidence showed they used malicious computer code. One boasted he was a malicious computer code Expert. It appears that they used this method, and caused suffering in the world.

[-] 1 points by ShubeLMorgan2 (1088) from New York, NY 2 years ago

OWS is a breath of fresh air. Keep up the good fight!

[-] 1 points by trusgold (2) 2 years ago

Te most powerful political group is the Tea Party cause they have a politial organization. Its time for #OWS to follow suit.

[-] 1 points by trusgold (2) 2 years ago

GET POLITICAL! #OWS you have seen just a glimpse of what will happen if the Republicans and theur Tea Party leaders take control of our Federal government. Paul Ryan- Voucher Syatem this is just a tatse of it and he is a republican darling, some wanting him to run for President. I know #OWS does not agree with President Obama 100%, but he is by far....BY FAR a muccch more force for Americans than any Republican. He said he wants to pay more taxes and should, It doesn;t get much more basic than that. You have to get political.....That is your most powerful weapon and you don;t even have a famework to use it. GET POLITICAL

[-] 0 points by TheIllusionCalledMoney (56) 2 years ago

Mr."Change you believe in" Obama. Gee, I wonder if he is proposing those tax hikes to win the election. Gee, wonder why he didn't propose this the day he got in office, ya know, "Change you can believe in". Nah, probably not, that just my silly cynical self talking.

My good friend: I must pledge to do the opposite - Don't get political. A little wake up call: Politics and politicians are no longer relevant to the human species. Occupy recognizes this. That is why Occupy never made any "demands" - after all, how can you make demands on something that is no longer relevant. Why are the "powers that were" so frightened of Occupy? Because for the first time ever, a group has come forth that makes no demands, that considers the system no longer relevant and seeks to create a new system by and for the people. The second Occupy "demands" anything or "Gets Political" as you suggest, the movement is over.

[-] 1 points by freewriterguy (882) 2 years ago

whats funny is alot of people are walkign off their homes anyways, because they are worth less than they owe, and in a few short years this may actually continue to lower home prices, they want to buy a new lower cost home than they are in now, otherwise they will be paying an extra 60-100k for a home the rest of us are paying less for.

I praise god for foreclosures, cause i finally got to buy a home, when americans previously had set the price so high that i couldnt afford one before! Good things come to those who wait, I care as much about them losing their home as they do for my family not able to afford a home for 3 generations now! Justice is sweet.

[-] 1 points by Riley2011 (110) from New Britain, CT 2 years ago

“We bailed out the big banks, and then they went on to foreclose on millions of families. That’s just heartless,” said Michael Premo, an organizer with Organizing for Occupation and Occupy Wall Street. “We’re committed to keeping homes occupied by people who need homes.”

This quote says it all....I am not interested in having my neighborhood turn into a ghost town....

[-] 1 points by Ivan11221 (2) 2 years ago

I’m an employee of the development company that bought the property at the auction which was “disrupted” by OWS. OWS people were giving out flyers at the auction that read “beautiful former children’s school in Bed Stuy…. perfect for education and community oriented organizations...” These guys really make me laugh. Instead of doing a little research on the building they make bold statements like that. I consider myself being a far leftist, my parents are Russian communists, but this is too much even for me.

A simple research shows that the owner of the property was a failed non-profit organization Miracle Makers, they embezzled tens of millions of TAXPAYERS’dollars, they borrowed $750K for renovation of this building from a private lender, and they stole it too. They sucked money from the city, state and federal government, pretending to take care of children and homeless. But they were plain thiefs. Just read the NYT article about them: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/06/nyregion/06foster2.html?pagewanted=all

Some excerpts for those too lazy to click on the link above: “ Miracle Makers is…the agency slowly collapsed under its own mismanagement, wasting money and failing to provide services.” ”The Times’s examination found that hundreds of thousands of dollars went for programs that appeared to exist chiefly on paper. Workers and money were improperly shuffled from one government contract to shore up another.”” When the judge, Bryanne A. Hamill, learned in court in 2005 that they had been without therapy for months, she blasted Miracle Makers. “They fail families,” she said.”

This building sat unoccupied at least since 2007 (the year I moved to Bed Stuy), it became a blight on the block already, it would have collapsed already if not for the efforts of the lender to preserve it. Why do you think this foreclosure case went thru so easily? Because the owners are probably somewhere South of the border with all the money they stole, and they wouldn’t care to even oppose this foreclosure.

Perhaps, there are some grandmothers out there losing their houses to unfair foreclosures, you go and help them out, instead of standing up for crooks and embezzlers. And leave it to us to improve the neighborhood.

[-] 1 points by AllOverIt (100) 2 years ago

Well, this is an idea in the right direction, but many of the folks that have no homes and have no jobs don't have options in America. Our government holds 30% of the land of the country yet holds off with guns those that would use the land to build shelters, to grow food and to develop community. We need to free the land and resources for the use of the people not for the financial benefit of the crony capitalists in bed with big government. Why depend for survival on jobs that the money class provides only when and if it suits them? It is not a smart strategy for free people in a free country.

[-] 2 points by AllOverIt (100) 2 years ago

If we think of ourselves as the passengers on a space craft with a finite ecosystem on a journey that will take many generation­­s to complete we can begin helping and supporting each other so we all arrive at our destinatio­­n rested, well fed and in wonderful condition. We can imagine that the people that greet us at the ultimate arrival gate will talk in wonderment about our collective capacity for mutual care and respect, our healthy bodies and bright, intelligen­­t and educated minds. We can help each other to achieve these things or we can go on travelling on this ship wherein the passengers sabotage each other, steal each other's resources and food, blow each other up or poison each other and arrive at the destinatio­­n a stinking mass of paranoid power thugs and starving, barbarian victims only to be looked on in horror by the host planet and then blown to smithereen­­s to avoid contaminat­­ion of their own population­­.

So let's all agree to change the paradigm to the one that we can all enjoy and be proud of.””

[-] 1 points by TheIllusionCalledMoney (56) 2 years ago

Beautifully said. Must borrow and share your quote my friend!

[-] 1 points by AllOverIt (100) 2 years ago

You are very welcome to make it your own.

[-] 1 points by Riley2011 (110) from New Britain, CT 2 years ago

There are both good and bad people in every movement. A number of people look at poor actions and decry a movement. This is about positive action and I applaud the actions of these folks. There are people in our government who think that renting out these homes and effectively taking away a piece of the American dream is a good idea. To take an agency like Freddy Mac and to make them landlords after bailout is disgusting. We can post and say " it doesn't matter" but when homes are lost in your neighborhood and folks don't qualify..what happens to your property value?we can all act tough and take a "serves em right" attitude...but with two or more bouts of bad luck Loss of job...sickness...it could be you

[-] 1 points by girlalex (1) 2 years ago

I think it's "Listen Auctioneer," not "Mr. Auctioneer." I think.

[-] 1 points by Courtney (111) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Good job, this is awesome

[-] 1 points by PatrickOxOethafulm (35) 2 years ago

<3 love yall

[-] 1 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

this is beautiful

[-] 0 points by patronus919 (5) 2 years ago

LMAO. OWS doesn't have the brains to get a civil message out. They CONSTANTLY shoot themselves in the foot with violence. the OWS is like a rocking chair. You can rock in it but it wont go anywere. The OWS is a bigger joke than the government. The Tea Party has people in congress. The OWS has people in jail

[Removed]

[Removed]

[Removed]

[-] -1 points by freewriterguy (882) 2 years ago

I would have arrested the offenders that I saw blocking the path of other citizens too. even after being told to step back i saw some creeping back over in the isle of the people.

[-] -2 points by Carlitini99 (-167) 2 years ago

Aren't peacefully and disrupt a contradiction? As in ,'I peacefully disrupted the surgeon as he started to cut into the patient'.

[-] -2 points by ombp2 (12) 2 years ago

Yaaayyy! Occupy futility!!!!!

[-] -3 points by Ninetyninenot (-57) 2 years ago

Maybe they should disrupt it with CHECK to pay for the house.

Houses don't become free upon default. Pay for the house and you can "occupy" it all you want. It really isn't that fucking complicated.

[-] 3 points by Vidad (2) 2 years ago

But then you'd be giving money to the banks. They already got their money, sometimes multiple times over. This is no longer a legal exchange. They made money from nothing, over-lent that money, then got bailed out after overlending it. Their lending at below-market gov't rates created a huge crack-up boom in property, blowing it above what many could afford, then that crashed the economy, taking out jobs with it. Give the banks money? No. In a free market, they'd be pushing shopping carts full of trash right now... and housing never would've gone under like it did.

[-] 0 points by Ninetyninenot (-57) 2 years ago

No, they didn't. Here's how you can tell: check to see if you're being foreclosed upon. If so, it's a virtual certainty that you've stopped paying for what you bought with someone else's money. That money may be an e v i l bank's or a saver's that owns a mortgage mutual fund or a pension fund from Norway. Who knows. But it definitely isn't yours.

[-] 1 points by AllOverIt (100) 2 years ago

T h e y

a r e n' t

p a y i n g

'c a u s e

t h e y

d o n' t

h a v e

m o n e y.

I said it real slow for you so you could understand. Because the very system they depend on for the money is structured so they can't get it means they must live in their car or in a box in the woods. But that's okay with you apparently.

[-] 0 points by Ninetyninenot (-57) 2 years ago

N O O N E is surprised to have collateral repossessed for non-payment.

Truly, it isn't complicated. If you borrow money, spend it on a house, but then stop paying back the borrowed money, you don't just get to keep what you bought. God, are dense enough where you have to have that explained to you?

Here's another shocker: R E N T. And if you can't even manage that 1) You truly are useless; 2) That's a welfare case, not a reason to be given a house you haven't paid for.

[-] 1 points by AllOverIt (100) 2 years ago

You champion a system of profit and exploitation but show no compassion for humanity.

[-] 0 points by Ninetyninenot (-57) 2 years ago

No, I champion a system where you should take a little responsibility and not be so stupid. For the love of God, if you want to be a grown up, you have to do your part.

Again, if you're so compassionate, show up with a CHECK instead of one of your idiotic signs. N O O N E expects to keep a house that you don't pay for. Houses aren't consolation prizes for default.

[-] 1 points by AllOverIt (100) 2 years ago

"Little responsibility" and "stupid" are your genetic heritage because you are captured by the capitalist syndrome of loving your captors. Please watch the movie HOME and the documentary The End of The Line and THEN tell me that I will survive best by complying with the existing systems.

HOME www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqxENMKaeCU

The End of the Line http://endoftheline.com/

[-] 0 points by Ninetyninenot (-57) 2 years ago

That's just so stupid. OMG, is it really that hard? Are a few life management skills that passed for common sense just maybe 30 years ago, now that utterly out-of-reach?

Buying things with debt carries risk. If you don't pay for what you bought with borrowed money, you likely won't get to keep it. Countless ways exist for competent grown-ups to manage debt and what you buy? Holy shit, do we need to go over gravity next?

[-] 1 points by AllOverIt (100) 2 years ago

Religious folks have fixed ideas and when money is your religion you BELIEVE. You, apparently, are a true believer. I never try to talk somebody out of their religion because they are certain they are right against all logic to the contrary. The system you adore ignores the suffering of the many to satisfy the wants of the few. You have a 1% mindset and it looks like you are stuck with it. I'm so sorry for you.

[-] 0 points by Ninetyninenot (-57) 2 years ago

I'm sorry for you; some of us just never reach the point of functioning at the level of an adult. Just sign a Power of Attorney over to someone more responsible and capable and get it over-with. Freedom can simply be over your head if you insist on being that helpless.