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Retribution Against the Financial Elite

10 a.m. All Hands on Deck for Square Reorganizing!

Posted 2 years ago on Oct. 20, 2011, 12:31 a.m. EST by OccupyWallSt

Liberty Square is a space created for culture and civics, for eduction, and building solidarity. A place to mint revolutionary thought, where the next generation of freedom fighters, organizers and artists will be raised. On Thursday, October 20th, at ten in the morning we will be reorganizing the square. Sanitation, and Town Planning are calling for #OWS to come out, grab a broom, a mop, and work to make the Square beautiful. This is a space for individuals of every age, race, creed and religion to enjoy. On Friday From 4pm - 11am there will be a Family sleep over. We need to create space and to welcome them into the #OWS!

141 Comments

141 Comments


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[-] 3 points by MarkDuwe (127) 2 years ago

Bravo, great idea! Do exactly what the critics think you would never do!

[-] 2 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6213) 2 years ago

This occupy movement which is growing and spreading, not just all over the US, but also all over the world is really wonderful. Theres no doubt in my mind that this is the beginning of something that will lead to revolutionairy changes. (these changeswill hopefully include expanding democracy to the communities and workplaces http://struggleforfreedom.blogg.no/1317735903_chomsky_explains_libe.html )

No one knows how long this struggle for freedom and democracy will be, but we DO know that we need to keep on strugglin´ and growing for as long as necessary. It really warms my heart to see all of you organizing to make changes.

I linked to this video earlier, but for those who missed it please check out this very good lecture by Noam Chomsky (April 2011) "Global Hegemony: the Facts, the Images":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iebK7VVDayY

Chomsky on corporations: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpd3grtjkK8 (from 2:30) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqlTyAMVDUk

also feel free to read my post on ows forum: http://occupywallst.org/forum/replace-capitalism-with-democracy/

yours S. keep up the good work :)

[-] 1 points by cat7757 (18) 2 years ago

Is great to see the Occupy Wall Street movement spread and continue. Keep it up!! Love it all and appreciate all of those involved !! Power to the People.

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[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

I'm sure the milk in your tea went sour, too.

[-] 1 points by frankchurch1 (839) from Jersey City, NJ 2 years ago

No need to worry, been an anarchist for years.

[-] 2 points by meskk (17) from Miami, FL 2 years ago

Wow, it's really coming together in so many positive ways... keep evolving in this direction, and you will win the support and hearts of folks never imagined...

[-] 2 points by michaelbravo (222) 2 years ago

right on you guys!! i am so very very proud of you!! california is proud of you!! the whole world is proud of you...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QrDLwSgg24

[-] 2 points by kashmiri (8) 2 years ago

I must acknowledge that you are very intelligent people so you shall definitely succeed.

[-] 1 points by ronaldpope (5) 2 years ago

Happy, Wall Street moguls I agree could give a damn about the 99 per cent, but they know we are out there. Perhaps that is why military, and police are standing there with weapons drawn. The sissys cannot take any verbal abuse.

[-] 1 points by jbell78 (152) 2 years ago

so no updates on Family Sleep Over, huh?

[-] 1 points by CHEMTRAILS (2) 2 years ago

Investigate Chemtrails!

[-] 1 points by yasminec001 (584) 2 years ago

Wow, this is absolutely beautiful, guys. I wish you all godspeed and good luck, for I am in Occupy Miami helping out here.

[-] 1 points by Marlow (1141) 2 years ago

B u m p... This Up!!!

[-] 1 points by shinfoo (6) 2 years ago
[-] 1 points by Vet4Peace (32) 2 years ago

Fuck you

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[-] 1 points by littlebiggygirl (26) from Hesperia, CA 2 years ago

some say Zucotti Park has simply replaced the Varick Street unemployment office. http://littlebiggy.org/4660547

[-] 1 points by kathieb (65) 2 years ago

some should actually go to Liberty Square and not listen to what others say. Just saying.

[-] 1 points by gtyper (477) from San Antonio, TX 2 years ago

Yes! Prove that we are worthy citizens and act for the best of all.

[-] 1 points by nckk (2) 2 years ago

Do you know Obama biggest donation came from Wall streeters/banks/companies? Did you know that Obama gave these wall street investment companies and banks tax payer money to continue their bad investments? Did you know congress created the housing crash (Dobbs/Frank) through Fanny mae/mac? I think you should be in DC not NY.

[-] 1 points by Vet4Peace (32) 2 years ago

K street would be nice.

[-] 1 points by Thisisthetime (200) from Kahlotus, WA 2 years ago

More Power to Occupy Wall Street. Fairness.

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[-] 1 points by LloydJHart (190) from Vineyard Haven, MA 2 years ago

Occupy Wall St. has no leverage to force change and until we get some nothing will change. If OWS blocks traffic it will stop business as usual and give OWS leverage to force change.

Over thirty six million children go to bed hungry every night in America. This is a crisis. Over 50 million people in America are living below the poverty line. This is a crisis. 46 million Americans are collecting food stamps. There is no way you can survive on food stamps. This is a crisis

Occupy Wall St. has quickly become like the democratic party, promising all kinds of change but OWS like the democratic party blinked in the face of the authoritarian rule imposed by the 1% percent through their puppet political regimes. OWS has become just a camp out. Not even a Hooverville.

Now that Occupy Wall St. has 501 C3 status and over 300,000 in donations it will become a reasonably well funded open air theatre group that will not cross the line that the 1% had their political stooges draw in front of them for fear of losing that 501 C3 status. Just like all the other ineffective liberal orgs in America. OWS will go up to the line but won't cross it. Too bad.

It is really sad to watch another organized protest movement like the peace movement against the war on Iraq castrate itself for political status before it even has a chance to debate tactics amongst itself.

The Union Movement broke the law to win the living wage. The Civil Rights Movement broke the law to knock down the worst and most obvious aspects of the color barrier. The Peace Movement broke the law to get the American public to turn against the Vietnam war. The Anti-Nuke Movement broke the law to force the US and Soviet Union into nuclear weapons negotiations.

In the face of this most consequential economic emergency what does Occupy Wall St. do? Organize a camp out.

Rosa Parks broke the law and so can you. Block Traffic Now!

Guidelines for Non-Violent Civil Disobedient Traffic Blocking. http://occupywallst.org/forum/guidelines-for-non-violent-civil-disobedient-traff/

[-] 1 points by legalassistant (164) from New York, NY 2 years ago

point taken and taken well. But the NYPD has become very efficient at carting off thousands at a time.

They bring the mass arrests by bus to a very large warehouse at Pier 57. If more capacity is needed, they can just ship the prisoners to another Pier, and fill it up again. see 2600.com/rnc2004 for a detailed account.

And I don't have to tell you about the media. It is not what it used to be. The largest and most disruptive movements in US history took place during the early days of the war in Iraq, and no one even knew.

The genius of the occupation is it never goes away. It stays until there is change. We don't need to rush the process of deciding what that change will be, or even to bring it about. This is just the beginning. I think of OWS as a raw generative force. A dynamo that will power the formation of the rest of the movement.

[-] 1 points by LloydJHart (190) from Vineyard Haven, MA 2 years ago

If you just stay camped out support will fall away from OWS as it is falling away now and the 1% will have waited out another lame protest movement from the weak and wounded left in America just like they did the much larger protests against the invasion of Iraq.

As for the media, was the media any better in India when Ghandi challenged the British empire? We are the media now so it is actually better.

[-] 1 points by legalassistant (164) from New York, NY 2 years ago

waiting too long is a danger. Acting too quickly, and causing the national guard to get involved before we have any ideas is a danger.

The legitimization of OWS is under way. Once radicals start carrying out the kinds of direct action you are talking about, they will appear even more legitimate in comparison. The political spectrum is undergoing a transformation. This is already a win.

I, like you, believe revolution is necessary, but I know that once you release those forces, you don't know if you are going to end up like a European democracy in the end, or like today's Russia.

The US could likely devolve into a narco state. But we still have to try.

[-] 1 points by LloydJHart (190) from Vineyard Haven, MA 2 years ago

I'm talking about non-violent civil disobedience not rioting. Calm down. Most of the rank and file of the military would support us innon-violent civil disobedience

[-] 1 points by legalassistant (164) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Violence needs to be discussed. Not violence against people. But violence, ot the threat of violence.

[-] 1 points by wallstreettrader (8) 2 years ago

legal, that kind of talk will be counter-productive to making any real & lasting change. keep it peacefull - and Ghandi-like... and great things can happen....

[-] 1 points by LloydJHart (190) from Vineyard Haven, MA 2 years ago

Look at the video of the arrests on the Brooklyn Bridge, the police handled the folks that didn't resist arrest with reasonable care. There is no point in resisting arrest when you have already successfully blocked the traffic. Where the cops screwed up was doing the arrests on the bridge causing a transportation issue that closed the bridge for longer than they wanted and left protesters sitting in the rain waiting for transportation

[-] 1 points by monahan (272) 2 years ago

Thhe unions have. Already threatened violence in ny

[-] 1 points by LloydJHart (190) from Vineyard Haven, MA 2 years ago

What union leader or members threatened violence? Prove it.

[-] 1 points by monahan (272) 2 years ago

Look at my threads from yesterday

[-] 1 points by JACKJILL (1) 2 years ago

End the fed

[-] 1 points by socceronly (102) 2 years ago

Why are artists singled out? We need a next generation of everything. Politians, scientists, lawyers....

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[-] 1 points by ronaldpope (5) 2 years ago

ALL elected officials should not receive a lucrative pension, or health benefits. Let them retire on social security, and pay a ppo for their medical like the rest of us 99 per centers!!!! Also...let's cut the budget by having only one senator represent a state...that could save us PLENTY!!!

[-] 1 points by onevoiceheard (2) 2 years ago

I stopped by Liberty Square for the first time today and I have to say I was impressed! You all show more sense of community than anyone on the right combined! Thank you for taking the time and having the courage to make your voices heard

[-] 1 points by Timalmighty (29) 2 years ago

GREAT Job you OWS people are doing! Since all of you have formed your ground zero in Liberty Square and since the media is licking their chops to get any type of exclusive.

Make your FIRST demand to offer to buy the property. Even if its not a realistic goal is irrelevant. The media will spin it out of control and you'll receive excellent coverage......for FREE!

That will solidify your movement and your cause indefinitely. If your offer is refused that makes a defining line between those that support you and those that don't.

The movement needs to capitalize on its support now especially from its international support.

Offer to buy the property. :o)

[-] 1 points by anonalien (77) 2 years ago

if you read one of the social critique books written in the past decade or so, such as "The Narcissism Epidemic", you will understand the phenomenon of the leaderless nature of this movement. It reminds me of the five year olds in kindergarten made to sing together "I am very special" kind of songs. The truth is this system has already programmed you to be powerless. I think OWS, in order to really inflict a change in this country, should literally and not only proverbially take the bull by its horns; it needs to adopt far more aggressive approach, equal to that of the 1%. i am afraid, engaging in politics is one of the things it will not be able to eventually escape. you should seek leaders among those who have power and influence and who would be willing to represent you.

[-] 1 points by stcous (5) 2 years ago

Ultimately, it is all about family and community. This is a great idea and teaching moment. Best of luck.

Consolidation of wealth & power commoditizes labor as an isolated human expenditure to me manipulated for market advantage. In a global corporate world this translates to societal disruption for millions of families trying to secure gameful employment and create stable homes. Hidden costs of globalization and corporatism is an increasingly de-stablized family unit. Not good for democracy, economy or the citizens that populate both.

[-] 1 points by pissedoffconstructionworker (602) 2 years ago

Excellent.

I was down there yesterday and it looked like shit. Last week was much better.

[-] 1 points by kathieb (65) 2 years ago

Clean up and reorganization today at 10 a.m.

[-] 1 points by pissedoffconstructionworker (602) 2 years ago

"heeeey maaaaan...you can't tell me what to do! You're not my mom! If I wanna leave my dirty shit all over the place and play drums stoned all day that's what I'm gonna do...you're just as bad as wall street, maaaaan"

--a dirt punk

[-] 1 points by kathieb (65) 2 years ago

LOL

[-] 1 points by cat7757 (18) 2 years ago

Watching television the other day I heard about 16 trillion in loans to the bankers of the world. This 16 trillion in loans coming from the U.S. Federal reserve. This is our money the U.S. taxpayer's money. I checked on page 131 of the Government Accountability Offices report, the URL is below the quoted text below at the bottom of this email, there is the figure in black and white 16.1 trillion dollars. I almost could not believe it - 16.115 trillion.

What happened to being financially responsible and working hard to become successful in the U.S. Now as long as your "at the top of the financial spectrum," competence, ethics, and work ethic does not matter - if your at the top you have made it - zero chance to fail. Most of these loans were made with very low interest rates. Most anyone could be very successful in business with loans of trillions of dollars - you could open banks, McDonald's, or make other investments where you could profit and easily pay off the loan with near zero percent interest.

And for us working, the working class, student loans cost far more in interest than the near zero the top one per-centers get from the Fed. It is good to be wealthy in the United States the system guarantees the wealthy to be successful with working class dollars.

I love America, I am a military veteran, and I have student loans, I would like to have a level playing field to succeed as all Americans should have the same opportunity. Unfortunately, in our U.S. today this no longer is the case - the cards, and most importantly the money rigs the system for the very rich.

This must be changed, this cannot continue.

The U.S. Federal Reserve gave out $16.1 trillion in emergency loans to U.S. and foreign financial institutions between Dec. 1, 2007 and July 21, 2010, according to figures produced by the government's first-ever audit of the central bank.

Last year, the gross domestic product of the entire U.S. economy was $14.5 trillion.

Of the $16.1 trillion loaned out, $3.08 trillion went to financial institutions in the U.K., Germany, Switzerland, France and Belgium, the Government Accountability Office's (GAO) analysis shows.

Additionally, asset swap arrangements were opened with banks in the U.K., Canada, Brazil, Japan, South Korea, Norway, Mexico, Singapore and Switzerland. Twelve of those arrangements are still ongoing, having been extended through August 2012.

Out of all borrowers, Citigroup received the most financial assistance from the Fed, at $2.5 trillion. Morgan Stanley came in second with $2.04 trillion, followed by Merill Lynch at $1.9 trillion and Bank of America at $1.3 trillion.

The audit also found that the Fed mostly outsourced its lending operations to the very financial institutions which sparked the crisis to begin with, and that they delegated contracts largely on a no-bid basis. The GAO report recommends new policies that would eliminate such conflicts of interest, and suggests that in the future the Fed should keep better records of their emergency decision-making process.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/60553686/GAO-Fed-Investigation

[-] 1 points by kathieb (65) 2 years ago

Wow! Someone who actually did their own research! Thank you!

[-] 1 points by dls101 (27) 2 years ago

Enjoy the Family sleep over. I love it that you are cleaning up the park. The Park is "sacred ground."

[-] 1 points by james83z28 (3) from Northborough, MA 2 years ago

I am a disabled veteran with psych and physical ailments from my military accomplishments between 1990-1993 I was on 7 psych medications and chose to stop taking them over a year ago. I have a service dog (MARLEY) she helps with my anxiety levels but without me using "Black-market" marijuana its harder for me to control, without marijuana the ARTHRITIS in my back would be more painful. I have a young friend of mine who is diagnosed with MS (multiple sclerosis) he too benefits from the effects. I say to you the readers KNOW-THE-FACTS.....If it's legalized it too would stimulate the economy by shutting down unneeded prisons and government spending on prison guards , low-level law officials and programs like" NARK" that eat at local community budgets. These are local programs formed by the government under the "war on Drugs" with money bribes to your local politicians to line their pockets why do you think we all want to know now "WHERE DID THE MONEY GO ?" The budgets are done every year the money is hidden in programs!!! Try sleeping at night knowing the country i was injured protecting is the same country I'm now fighting to legalize an" alleviation" from my symptoms. (P.T.S.D., bipolar disorder, schizophrenia and arthritis) Have we forgotten we gave IRAQ “GRANTS” to rebuild not LOANS ? Not to mention the new STATE “regulation” on pain medication means I now have to drive to my doctors once a month instead of once-every 3. The raise they are considering for SSDI is a joke compared the the gas$ increases over the past 3yrs.

[-] 1 points by Vet4Peace (32) 2 years ago

Be careful James. If they find you smoking, they'll have you in violation of your pain contract. Nothing you put on the net is private and anything we say can and will be used against us. I, too, am disabled and agree.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

I've never smoked marijuana before, but I'm all for the legalization of it.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

My uncle, who was in Vietnam, also suffered from bipolar disorder after serving. It really pisses me off how the government and military are so quick to send people to fight their wars, and then they shit on them and slap them in the face when they get home. It REALLY fucking pisses me off!!

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

Nice fucking country, eh?!!!

[-] 1 points by Vet4Peace (32) 2 years ago

4 dead in Ohio. Eventually, we stopped that war.

[-] 1 points by kashmiri (8) 2 years ago

It is high time that you start running a power centerless government.

[-] 1 points by Vet4Peace (32) 2 years ago

You mean like state's rights? Somethings are better done locally. Some are better done at a state level. Other things must be handled at a National level and still others must be dealt with globally. A government is a collection of people trying to figure out how best to solve the problems of their constituency w/ the resources available. Constituencies are subsets of the whole. If we can pool our strengths together to overcome our individual weaknesses, we would create the best possible world. Symbiosis is the key. The moment someone exploits someone's desperation or ignorance is where they become a threat to the troop. It is the duty and privilege of the strong to move toward the threat. In reading Jane Goodall, one sees that is not the survival of the fittest, the strong succumb to their wounds, or eventually, if they're lucky, to old age. Keep thinking. Biologically speaking, there are 3 things essential to life. Clean air, fresh water and a little nutrition. Everything else is a matter of comfort and entertainment. But w/o any one of those three, you will not survive. In a perfect, temperate world, one could just live off what creation has given them. Naked, we could walk, nibbling on what looks edible. Until rogues or marauders rape, kill and eat you. Not a perfect world. Each of us, though, make up the whole. Each of our attitudes and actions create the product/sum of our culture/society. If we want a better world, we must be better people. And when injustice is the norm, resistance is our duty. I will do my best.

[-] 1 points by stevemiller (1062) 2 years ago

http://overthecoals.blogspot.com/

Job boom plan for America

For the protest to guarantee winning the next election the plan needs to be force the multinationals to buy all their supplies made by American workers. Prevent any imports from China and known slave states from being unloaded. The 13th amendment abolished slavery. Having slave made goods in America is unconstitutional.

Unions should have their own pay scale. Any workers who don't want to join the union will need to negotiate their own pension, their own wages, their own health care.

End all tax deductions or tax credits and use a sales tax to collect taxes so even criminals will pay their taxes. Eliminate the entire IRS which would save $400 billion annually.

To refuse to vote for that platform would be stupid and insane.The privileged keep ripping all the rest of us off and we are morons allowing that to happen. Any person against this plan is sabotaging the OWS protest and needs to be heard. Let's hear any reason to oppose this end globalization screw job.

[-] 1 points by sufinaga (513) 2 years ago

this is a delusion a false promise of jobs. jam tomorrow. there aint no santa claus on the evening stage. automation has taken the jobs and set the slaves free. now we want our piece of the pie, our fair share, wages for work we have done down through the ages as we are reincarnating spirits. read the book of revelations. there shall be no more curse. work is the curse. mass unemployment and the end of this evil fascist babylon uk/usa is caused by the silicon chip the stone cut out without hands of daniel2. so we need to institute ZEITGEIST MOVING FORWARD and increase benefits for the coming 65% unemployment.

[-] 1 points by MadProfit (312) 2 years ago

Organised religion throughout the ages has become a shadow of it's former self. The power is in the individual practitioners who have taken the power of it back for themselves. All outward manifestations of religions are based on the seeds of mysticism, which can be seen to follow the same principles around the globe, regardless of their cultural differences. Thus organised religion takes a wrong turn by it's very attempt to make what should be a personal relationship into control over a mass of people by their supposed common beliefs. As OWS is treading the fine waters between partisan-politics, there is no reason to discriminate against anyone based on belief-systems, bar the idea that as long as you do not harm anyone, believe what you want - but try to have an open mind, you could miss something. Now, how you hash out what defines harm is up to you...

[-] 1 points by rugids (11) 2 years ago

Not Two Is Peace

http://www.globalcooperationproject.org

Global Cooperative Forum Beyond Tribalism Based on Prior Unity of Humanity Not two Is Peace

[-] 1 points by sufinaga (513) 2 years ago

the main issue is our brutalisation by the system. we must protect our children's minds from the BS religions of christianity and islam. child protection will destroy christianity just as surely womens liberation will destroy islam. all christian preachers GROOM children by telling them their mothers are sinners. crucifixion is a violent image that disturbs children's minds. we must not tolerate christian preachers in our midst or any "muslim terrorist" BS. the fascist elite use this christian muslim war to divide mankind. both are BS!!

[-] 1 points by watersender (9) from Holyoke, MA 2 years ago

sufinaga, you are arguing against the wrong enemy. Destroying the injustices created by the banking system has nothing to do with destroying Christianity. Jesus taught that we must care for one another, and that the greatest virtue is charity. It is true that people have done evil things and called them Christianity. Do not be fooled.

[-] 1 points by sufinaga (513) 2 years ago

christianity is a roman invention NOT a divine revelation. the american eagle is the roman eagle. jesus is the antichrist. Ras Tafari is the True Christ. the end of cannabis prohibition is the RAPTURE. Body

why did Bodhidharma come to China?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nq2Ml-fsVdY

videos to inspire our peaceful protest

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUjwMKX3W-Y

Wichita Lineman satori

[-] 1 points by watersender (9) from Holyoke, MA 2 years ago

Sufinaga, An important part of OWS is tolerance. We do not have to agree on religion to agree that the current banking system and greed-based economy are destroying our country.

In fact, the pope is expected to release a statement Monday that sounds more like OWS than like any American lawmaker. http://www.ourdailythread.org/content/vatican-issue-radical-document-economy-thomas-j-reese-sj

(I hope that you are not assuming that because I am Christian that I am against OWS. Quite the opposite. In fact, I hope that you are one of the people who has benefitted from the water I have been sending. Watch for a great big guy carrying big jugs of water every few days. He's delivering it; I'm paying for it.)

Peace to you.

[-] 1 points by sufinaga (513) 2 years ago

we must be intolerant of BS that brutalises our minds with the horror of crucifixion, the zombie horror of rising from the dead, the cannibalism horror of eating dead human flesh. these ideas should never be put in our children's minds ever again. fishers of men are predators of men. all christian preachers money shark by tithing the poor and vulnerable. the gospel is a snare. conversion is bullying into the fear of death. we are grateful for the water but it does not come from you. Brahman the Shining Self creates the water for us to share. as equals no one is saved no one is damned. we need no intermediary to our loving father.

[-] 1 points by watersender (9) from Holyoke, MA 2 years ago

I did not claim to create the water. I merely provided a means for getting it to you. You certainly do not need to thank me for sending it; I expected no thanks. But it is a little strange that you feel a need to vilify and ridicule things that I believe.

[-] 1 points by sufinaga (513) 2 years ago

you are taking it personally. it is not what "you" believe. christianity is a HORROR story of crucifixion and cannibalism, a barbaric human sacrifice scapegoat religion. the INTENT behind christianity is to groom our children, cripple their minds with guilt and horrors and to BRUTALISE humanity into slavery. christians are rednecks. we must protect our community from the preachers of this evil religion. we must stop any attempts to convert, recruit or "save" with this evil gospel which is a snare. this is not a personal attack on you. you are a victim but have a heart. Ras Tafari is the true Christ. jesus is the antichrist.

[-] 0 points by bobby (58) from Quincy, CA 2 years ago

USA Parliament Special Bulletin 10/20/2011

http://usparliament.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=490

[-] 0 points by anonalien (77) 2 years ago

OWS Eventually Will Have to Engage in Politics-as-Usual

I’ll be the first to admit that I have no idea where the Occupy Wall Street movement ultimately is going or how it intends to get there. But as I’ve mentioned before, the OWS protesters are the only people to have explicitly pointed out who the dealers are in the economic Three-card Monte game that has been used to hose working- and middle-class Americans for more than 30 years now. That alone is enough to merit my wholehearted support for their efforts to end America’s ongoing impoverishment of the many for the enrichment of the few.

Where I run into difficulty is in trying to understand how, exactly, OWS intends to stop the United States from continuing what by now has become business as usual. As mentioned previously, the options for effecting change essentially boil down to either (i) negotiating, compromising and working within the existing system, or (ii) trying to completely replace the existing system, root and branch, with something entirely new.

Yesterday, David Atkins (“thereisnospoon”) nicely captured these two options in a post up over at Digby’s:

Leaderless movements can indeed succeed just as they did in Tahrir Square. But without a defined legislative agenda and the leadership to put that legislative agenda into place via the established process, the only thing leaderless movements can really achieve is systemic overthrow. That is perhaps what many in the movement are advocating or hoping for. But in Egypt, Libya and Syria, there were doubtless massive majorities in favor of deposing the regime. America is still deeply politically divided into culture camps . . . .

If systemic overthrow is in the cards, it will be a long, painful and very likely bloody process.

If, on the other hand, the movement seeks change along more traditional lines, then it is going to have to muddy its feet in the nasty realm of politics and hierarchy. It is going to require leaders and defined legislative goals. So far, the Occupy Movement has fiercely rejected those things.

[snip]

The broader question is whether many progressives have lost all faith in the electoral system entirely.

If that is the case, then systemic overthrow is all that is left. But in America, systemic overthrow won’t be as in Tahrir Square. The broad swath of conservative America will never come along for the ride, but will fight tooth and nail against the protesters, not just rhetorically but physically as well. Many of the Right have been itching to do so already. Real systemic overthrow will require a lot fewer drums, and a lot more boxes of ammunition. But use of that, too, would be contrary to the spirit of the American Left.

So it’s difficult to understand where precisely the change will come from. Politicians don’t respond to protest movements any more than Dems were cowed from passing the ACA by the Tea Party protests. It takes more direct lobbying, electoral activity and leadership than simple protest to achieve legislative change. If electoral and legislative politics are eschewed, then revolution is all that is left. But that revolution will not be peaceful, and the American Left would need to be prepared for that eventuality. (emphasis added)

At this point, Occupy Wall Street seems to have no interest whatsoever in compromising its “horizontal, autonomous, leaderless, modified-consensus-based” process by adopting any of the more hierarchical structures necessary to effect specific legislative change. As Todd Gitlin reports, the Occupy Movement “likes government more than corporations, but its own style is hardly governmental. It tends to care about process more than results.” (emphasis added)

more here, (jerk) http://casacognito.blogspot.com/2011/10/ows-eventually-will-have-to-engage-in.html

[-] 1 points by Vet4Peace (32) 2 years ago

I see results already.

[-] 0 points by railroadmike (2) 2 years ago

I see Bloomber wants OWS out ASAP again. Im wondering. Bank Of America just shifted 75 Trillion from its Murril Lynch Division to its bank divisions with FDIC insured deposits. Somethings Going Down !!!

[-] 0 points by KnowledgeableFellow (471) 2 years ago

75 trillion? Really? 75 trillion? Why do you make that stuff up?

And tell us.......why would any inter-division transfer cause a mayor to make a certain decision.....this will be interesting, lol

[-] 1 points by Vicewatch (43) 2 years ago

It's not made up --but it is not $75 trillion in cash- it's much worse - $75 trillion in derivatives contracts that are pretty much junk debt- now backstopped by the FDIC, which is low on insurance payout money, so it'll therefore it'll be backstopped by you, the taxpayer.

http://www.investmentnews.com/article/20111018/FREE/111019929

The knowledgeable people I know would do a 15 second google search before accusing someone of making something up. This has been on Reuters, Bloomberg and hundreds of financial blogs for two days now.

The Bloomberg OWS thing and this aren't directly connected, but they both are fine examples of the 1 percent screwing the 99.

[-] 0 points by tiredofthepresidentspolicies (1) from Atlanta, GA 2 years ago

Income is not distributed. Income is based on skill, ability to work, desire to work, and a desire to learn new skills that help you to move up in an organization. This President has done nothing to make this country great again. He has his own agenda which is to destroy America in order to distribute wealth to the people that do not want to work. Everyone should stop asking for a handout because if you continue this reckless behavior, you will never provide for your family, much less for yourself. The problem is not a social one, it is an economic one.

If prices rise on the items that you need to provide for your family or yourself, you will change your priorities and only buy the items that you really need to live. Tightening of the belt is the method that everyone uses when money is tight. What do you think happens in a business when the cost to produce an item rises? The business owners do the same thing that a normal American family does. They tighten the belt and find ways to lower their costs for raw materials. If this doesn't work, then they have to pass the cost on to the consumer in the form of higher prices. A lot of what is being spewed by the socialist minded folks out there is "why should we pay higher prices for the products we need to live?". The businesses should not raise their prices because everyone else suffers. The thing that they can't get through their lie-infested brain is by keeping prices low the company will eventually have to lay off employees until they can get their costs in line with prices. Now the problem gets worse because there are more people out of work. This cycle continues until there are not enough people to make the products and the company has to close the doors. Guess what! More people are now out of work. This hurts the economy even more because now the tax dollars the company was paying in the form of unemployment taxes, payroll taxes, property taxes, etc. is now gone which will ultimately cause less tax revenue for the government. This is one of the reasons we have the debt problem in the first place.

Everyone needs to stop and think for a change instead of blaming the "rich" or the "top 1%" for the problems. They are not the problem, the President and his cronies are the problem. We have to stop this problem that the President has created and allowed to fester or we will continue to have high unemployment and an economic meltdown that hasn't been seen since the Great Depression. Wake up people! This can be fixed but we have to all get on the same program.

We need real tax reform. We need real Social Security reform. The old saying "You have to spend money to make money" holds true here. Just look at it from a different perspective. Lowering taxes for EVERYONE is the same as spending money. If we have real tax reform with lower taxes for everyone, including the "rich" and "dirty corporations" that are permanent, then the corporations will be able to spend their money to provide jobs which will lower the cost of materials and consumer products/services. The idea that everyone needs to understand is that more jobs = more revenue for the government. The President's jobs bill wants to raise taxes AND spend money in the hopes that it will make money for the government. It doesn't work that way and everyone out there knows it.

That's all I have to say for now. Start thinking for yourselves and stop following the pack of misfit elves.

[-] 0 points by professor101 (27) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

What kind of parents would subject their children to the cold overnight weather outside with the risk of rain? Expect CPS (yes, a social program paid for by the rest of us) to verify that they are not in danger.

[-] 1 points by SunnyMamaof3 (1) 2 years ago

I take my children camping through out the year. We prepare ourselves for inclement weather and have a suitable back up plan. We do the same tomorrow evening.

[-] 1 points by professor101 (27) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

I applaud this. I'm concerned about those who don't have the foresight as the invitation only mentions yoga mats and layers.

[-] 0 points by liberty1 (5) 2 years ago

Ron Paul! Ron Paul! Ron Paul! Let liberty reign!

[-] 1 points by kathieb (65) 2 years ago

OWS does not support Ron Paul nor any other political candidate.

[-] 1 points by sufinaga (513) 2 years ago

Body

why did Bodhidharma come to China?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nq2Ml-fsVdY

videos to inspire our peaceful protest

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUjwMKX3W-Y

Wichita Lineman satori

[-] 0 points by Socrates469bc (608) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Ron Paul! Ron Paul Forever!!! Yea!!!

Please donate:

http://occupywallst.org/donate/

[-] 1 points by liberty1 (5) 2 years ago

I am canceling my donation to this totalitarian operation. Boooo for world government.

[-] 1 points by aliagee (10) 2 years ago

Please keep your politician out of the movement, cheers.

[-] 1 points by Socrates469bc (608) from New York, NY 2 years ago

My understanding is that OWS is an open leaderless organization. People from all stripes of the political spectrum should be allowed to donate, shouldn't they?

There are a lot of curious Ron Paul supporters, why not take a donation from them, and give them a pamphlet detailing what you want to achieve? Maybe after they donate they will come to understand where they are mistaken, and why you are right.

[-] 1 points by aliagee (10) 2 years ago

I have a problem with people pushing a leader onto the movement. There is a lot of pushing, and i (not speaking for anyone but myself) want spaceto move around in without getting pushed.

[-] 1 points by Socrates469bc (608) from New York, NY 2 years ago

I understand your viewpoint, but why not think of it this way. Push your ideas, if RP supporters are will to pay for it (ie make a donation) why not? If you hate RP, every dollar you take from a RP supporter is a dollar they do not donate to RP. If you love RP, then presumably the vision you are trying to achieve at OCW is the same as RP's in which case, why not ask your fellow RP friends to donate? Either way, whether you like or hate RP, it's a win-win situation.

[-] 1 points by aliagee (10) 2 years ago

I do not want to push my ideas. I want to listen. I find that, in general, the RP people want to shout and be heard, but are not so interested in listening, just arguing. It doesn't sit well with the spirit of consensus as I understand it.

I don't want MoveOn taking over, I don't want Tea Partiers taking over, I don't want anyone who has already decided what the goal should be taking over. I want people listening and sharing and listening some more. Shouting Ron Paul so loud no one else can hear is not sharing, it's bullying.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

agreed

[-] -1 points by KnowledgeableFellow (471) 2 years ago

You act as if that real estate is yours. It isn't.

[-] 1 points by Vet4Peace (32) 2 years ago

The poor out number the rich. Possession is nine tenths. The earth does not belong to us. We belong to the Earth. Maybe they'll claim it as eminent domain.

[-] 0 points by KnowledgeableFellow (471) 2 years ago

so, you are advocating anarchy? That's what a system with no laws is. And yeah, the protestors down in Australia thought possession was nine tenths, lol.

Just a note to you.......stay off my land!!!!!!!!!!

lmao

[-] 1 points by kathieb (65) 2 years ago

You're correct. It is owned by Brookfield Properties who built it in order to allow additional height to their building at 1 Liberty Plaza in the 60's. That is why it is privately owned, yet has public access 24 hours a day.

[-] 0 points by KnowledgeableFellow (471) 2 years ago

The access allowed is not unfettered. There are restrictions as to how the park can be used. Brookfield did not sign over all rights of control over the property. Also, public access does not mean that you can pitch a tent. Grand Central Station provides public access. Try pitching a tent there.

One thing OWS has shown is that it has absolutely no respect for other people's property.

[-] 1 points by kathieb (65) 2 years ago

There are no tents pitched at Liberty Square. They do have a very small medical tent. Have a nice day!

[-] 1 points by kathieb (65) 2 years ago

Insulting me just shows what you are. Bye Troll!

[-] 0 points by KnowledgeableFellow (471) 2 years ago

It was only an insult if you really didn't know what I was saying. I think you did. Therefore, no insult. Only an off-base, arrogant remark on your part, is all.

[-] 1 points by Vet4Peace (32) 2 years ago

More succinctly, Fuck you.

[-] 0 points by KnowledgeableFellow (471) 2 years ago

Hey, now you are sounding more intelligent with a remark like that. lmao.

[-] -3 points by NYprotester (80) 2 years ago

OWS is obsolete.

The Dirt Bagger Party welcomes you to our family sleep over. Please be prepared for the cold weather and bring essentials.

[-] 1 points by kathieb (65) 2 years ago

OWS welcomes you. The Dirt Bagger Party seems to consist of one.

[-] 1 points by NYprotester (80) 2 years ago

Need help making a t-shirt. We need to draw a picture of Zooccotti Park with a cage around it. Here are some ideas: Draw a hippie climbing the cage like a monkey and throwing shit.
Draw a hippie rolling in mud and shit like a pig.
Draw a hippies fucking like dogs.
Draw a picture of a hippie eating peanuts like a big fucking elephant. Draw a hippie as a lazy fucking Ape doing nothing.

[-] 1 points by sufinaga (513) 2 years ago

Body

why did Bodhidharma come to China?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nq2Ml-fsVdY

videos to inspire our peaceful protest

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUjwMKX3W-Y

Wichita Lineman satori

[-] 1 points by Jerry140 (1) 2 years ago

I'm proud on the OWS protesters and their continuing efforts to take control back of their future. I'm convinced peaceful protests wil ultimately push the FED out of the government. Don't be distracted by events like the "Michael Jackson case" and expect more events coming, apart from bad weather, which might keep you at home glued to your TV-set.

[-] 1 points by NYprotester (80) 2 years ago

Join us in the park. The Dirt Bagger Party needs you!

[-] 1 points by kathieb (65) 2 years ago

How about the Troll Party? LOL