Forum Post: Why has the legalization of Marijuana not made it onto any "Official" demands lists?
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 29, 2011, 4:04 p.m. EST by MikeyD
(581)
from Alameda, CA
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Do we not care that 50% of our prison population is there for drug related offenses, or that the NBC has made a business out of commercializing the entrapment and incarceration of every day Americans for the sole purpose of lining the pockets of private prison owners?
The cartels are a lobby...a huge one now. It would be naive to think they don't have big $ input in congress.
It is in their profit favor that innocent people continue to be put into prison/torture chambers for nothing. Keeping the forbiddenness level high (w lots of draconian busts & sentences) keeps the income they use for side interests - human trafficking, hard drugs, etc - similiarly advancing.
The 1% uses any drug they like, IMO, w immmunity few else would enjoy.
More likely, it has to do with the fact that too many people already believe in the image of OWS that greatwhite and others poke fun at; a bunch of fools and hippies whose only real interest in legalizing marijuana is so that they don't have to hide their baggies from the cops anymore. We absolutely need to confront the issues with our prison system, and a major part of that is better examining the way our society treats drug use. However, I'm not sure if there's a way to officially bring up the legalization of marijuana that's not going to give the movement a major black eye in the media.
I believe it is our right to put into our bodies what we choose.
The drug war is a war on civil liberties.
It's a war on us.
I have no problem with weed, certain mild amphetamines, and psychedelics (shrooms, LSD, etc.) being legalized because they're fairly safe and/or ubiquitous as it is. Weed is actually less harmful than tobacco; our current bias merely has to do with which plant the Founding Fathers had on their plantations. Mild amphetamines such as caffeine are fairly common as it is, and anyone who's ever had a can of Rockstar or Monster or Red Bull has dealt with slightly more powerful ones such as taurine and guarana or milk thistle extract. Shrooms and LSD should be OK as long as you use the stuff with people and not anywhere dangerous (keep that shit INSIDE your house and make sure that you have sober people strong enough to hold you down if necessary).
Using really hard stuff like cocaine, MDMA, heroin, etc. is about as smart as drinking drain cleaner, and I'm not completely sure what to do about that. However, I do feel that addiction should be handled as a treatable medical condition the same way alcoholism and nicotine trouble are, rather than as an excuse to lock someone up. Now if they do something bona fide illegal while on drugs then they ought to face criminal charges and potential prison time for the act in question and/or gross negligence for not taking precautions when you knew that getting high would make you do something really stupid.
Most folks know that.
But should someone be put in prison for choosing a different way to get drunk?
Or
Should they only be put in prison if they harm others (no matter which drug they choose)?
The latter, ideally. Committing a crime while high is still committing a crime because no matter what mental state you were in when you did it you still chose to put yourself in that state without taking appropriate precautions. Driving/operating heavy machinery/etc. while high should be charged as gross negligence, and getting high in front of or leaving drugs around kids should be child abuse.
Then we are in perfect agreement on that point.
The best way to see this happen in our lifetimes is to take the federal government out of the issue and allow the states to decide.
Think about this conversation when you are voting.
Vote Ron P.A.U.L. to see this happen.
Except I trust the states even less than you trust the Feds, which is why I'd prefer federal drug laws essentially spelling out what you and I agreed upon. I don't want to buy a bottle of caffeine pills in Pennsylvania on the way to a meeting in Chicago only to get picked up on a traffic stop and tossed in the clink halfway through Ohio.
[Removed]
That would be nice, although I think we'd be more likely to see a repeal of federal marijuana laws once the government finally figures out how much they can make in weed taxes...
[Removed]
Private prisons are crazy; nobody's supposed to have a vested interest in increasing the number of inmates in the system; if you follow the logic back far enough private prisons directly profit from crime and injustice in a way that shouldn't be happening; there are are certain people who are true irredemptible predators, and I could care less what happens to them as long as we don't have to pay to keep them alive. That said, the list of people who meet that definition is an incredibly short list, most likely less than one percent of our current inmate population.
Almost everyone else in that system started out as good people and then life went badly wrong for them. Now some of those people still need to do time in order to make a point, but it is not something we should be celebrating or profiting from; it's something we should be seeking to minimize as much as we can. Like I said below, we're going to need actual urban renewal, a fully functioning, comprehensive social safety net, and a very different approach to drug laws if we really want to cut spending, because I guarantee you that the cost of doing those things is far smaller than that of keeping two to three million people locked up every year.
[Removed]
Who exactly does gain from the current prison system? It's an incredibly expensive drain on the budgets of state and local governments alike, and I feel like we need to come up with a far better solution for young people in tough neighborhoods than to wait until they get fed up and do something stupid and then lock them away. We're going to need actual urban renewal and support for our poor if we want to cut government spending, simply because what we spend on a proper social safety net and better schools we save in incarceration costs.
[Removed]
A significant part of that non-development come out of "where is the $$ going - & where is it NOT going? " Namely, the 3.3 trillion Blackwater/BP Benefit (oil war) that is more for the gain of the 1,000's of PMCs than it is for legitimate defense. Poor(er) people have always made just as great cannon fodder as they have jail fodder, for the powers that always have been.
While this may not be directly sticking to the subject, it is definitely connected to its progress & outcome.
Then the answer is to fix our existing social safety net so that it doesn't lead people to do things they wouldn't otherwise do. I know what you mean about the whole "under the table" thing; we wound up getting food stamps via TANF for a short time and my mom worked "off the books" for a while as a part-time employee in our neighbor's art store. It had to be off the books because the combination of my dad's pension, unemployment insurance, and the little the job brought in would have put us just above the threshold to lose benefits but still wasn't enough to live on.
What needs to happen is that welfare programs need to provide enough in benefits for a parent to be able to spend a year or two living just off the assistance checks while he or she looks for work, and both income elegibility requirements and benefits scales need to be revised upward so that the working poor get enough support that they can live a middle-class lifestyle. I would also include in the welfare benefits package Head Start vouchers for preschool-aged children and either busing to more affluent school districts or matching to programs like Harlem's KIPP (Knowledge is Power Program) charter school for school-aged children. Do those things and repeal many of the drug laws and watch our prison population (and prison spending) plummet.
Where has marijuana been made legal first?
Also
If it is left to the states it is at the local level which means it is left to the people not the government.
I have no problem with things starting at the local level, but I don't want us to have to deal with the same patchwork problem we have with gun laws, where each state does its own thing and an honest mistake can land you in jail. There's already some of this right now; New York was home to the Rockefeller Drug Laws and to this day remains the weed bust capital of the world. In Massachusetts having an ounce of weed is roughly equivalent to failing to curb your dog, and in California it was pretty much legal (although the Feds seem not to be too happy with that). Now imagine if a Californian shows up in NYC. That's the kind of thing I don't want to see happen.
If the majority of states make it legal it can be added as an amendment and when that happens federal protections are soon to follow.
Besides with the large number of population in states like New York do you really think that the "keep it illegal" crowd will have much ground?
why do we allow them to continue to demonize I.H. ( industrial hemp ) and also cannabis. both of these plants are super multi purpose resources that will create jobs in a GREEN economy. as long as we continue to act guilty or unsure of ourselves...they will dump all over this.
There are very few people who go to jail for low level possession. Unless they've copped a plea to low level possession.
We can take the cartels with a couple of little flybys...
[Removed]
I love this, everything should be on the table. I don't smoke, but freedom is freedom.
FIGHT THE CAUSE - NOT THE SYMPTOM OsiXs (More Power and Technology to the People!)
A plan for a direct democracy:
http://www.osixs.org/Rev2_menu_commonsense.aspx
Here's a very recent Gallup poll that shows 50% of Americans believe marijuana should be legalized:
http://justsaynow.firedoglake.com/2011/10/17/gallup-50-percent-support-marijuana-legalization/
Drug policy research shows that 40% of Americans have at least tried smoking marijuana.
16 states + DC have legalized medical marijuana, yet the Federal government continues to spend our tax money to raid & prosecute medical mj dispensaries.
This is not just a personal freedom issue, it is also an economic issue.
No one knows the exact cost of marijuana enforcement alone, but the total cost of the drug war is more than 12 billion dollars so far this year, just for Federal enforcement:
http://www.drugsense.org/cms/wodclock
Economists project that 10 to 14 billion dollars could be saved through marijuana legalization:
http://www.prohibitioncosts.org/
This is NOT a fringe issue anymore.
It's totally obscene that our politicians smile & joke about their own use of marijuana while they continue to lock up young people & waste our tax dollars on an overblown "drug war" and block valuable medical research from taking place.
I'm with ya on this one, MikeyD
ps - I don't even use marijuana but if I was ill & needed pain relief I would like to have the option of medical marijuana
[Removed]
You know, I've been for that all my life. now, it's just gotten to the point where I just want at least hemp legalized. I mean, come now, Government. You know that hemp is less costly, easily harvested, and is eco-friendly. Some industries will lose out on money if we do something for the common good of all. Just another example of how we don't do what is good for everyone.
In fact, why can't there be a program that families and individuals can sign up, cultivate hemp plants, and in return get income and basic needs?
yes!
Right?
Because cannabis is a mostly misunderstood Herb . It is an easy target for the unenlightened. Alcohol is a Religion in America.
[Removed]
Cannabis is already legal in most parts of the country; police officers are not permitted to make the arrest.
Legalization of marijuana is the last demand this movement wants to make.
It is already bordering on looking like a bunch of young stoners. A demand like that would make things worse.
Bordering?
[Removed]
Well .... The rest of the country is not California.
California's people and form of government these days is insanity.
[Removed]
Tax collection from any narcotics that were legalized wouldn't bring in the money some people expect.
It would barely put a dent in the deficits and outrageously insane California state spending.
[Removed]
You won't get much of a savings on the criminal enforcement side.
People who deal drugs are outright criminals. If they couldn't earn money that way, they would be involved in other types of criminal activity. Criminals don't just put on a suit, get a haircut and look for a job when one source of income dries up. They move to other criminal activities.
Which drugs? No attempt is made to separate one class of them from another. Are you talking about pot/hash/psychedelics? Crime syndicates & predatory dealers aren't that interested in them. The only reason they give them the time of day is try to co opt people in to harder drugs like heroin, meth, coke, & crack. Mobsters & gangsters want compellingly, physically addictive hard drugs that force people to bow to agonized states of withdrawal, & keep them coming back for more via an induced illness.
Drug dealers and crime cartels are very interested in pot. It has one of the highest profit margins of all illegal narcotics.
If we legalized drugs, drug dealers would become investment bankers.
[Removed]
A criminal is a criminal. Very few are just "criminals of opportunity" who would cease to be criminals when such opportunity dried up.
You sound very naive. Especially naive regarding people and human nature in general.
[Removed]
I wasn't talking about drug users. I was talking about drug dealers. You would have known that had you carefully read what I had written.
It's unfortunate that some drug users wind up in jail, but the reasons for that often go beyond just the fact that they were caught with drugs on their person.
This country has a lot of prisoners because we have more freedoms than most civilized countries. It's an unfortunate drawback, but the more freedom a people have there will inevitably be more criminal activity.
[Removed]
End the War on Drugs...this should be at the very top of the list
[Removed]
sounds like your high again
I think it's just because it'd be extremely easy for FOX "news" to make that their only talking point.
You'll notice that FOX doesn't actually talk about OWS points. They would if legalizing marijuana was there.
[Removed]
That's because neocons want people to be high. That's the only way their policies are acceptable.
[Removed]
No, I DO take that position, society would be better off with MORE people in jail, to be specific, the 250,000 bankers that committed the largest fraud in history.
[Removed]
My beef with the bankers is that they broke the law. Period. and dumbass, before you ask, when you sell junk bonds as Aaa, that is fraud. That is what put Michal Milken in jail. This is what 250,000 bankers are guilty of in New York and New Jersey.
[Removed]
While I think that's true, to a certain extent, it is a bit difficult considering the mass propaganda machine that does, most definitely, exist.
I suppose the best way I can frame it is this. Why make it a conversation about the legalization of marijuana when it needs to be a conversation about the economy?
[Removed]
I think there are much much much more pressing issues. End The Fed, for one.
[Removed]
The End the Fed movement isnt a conspiracy...it can all be proven as a matter of fact for the most part. It's a basic monetary policy issue
[Removed]
That seems like an able compromise. Let's start with an audit of the FED.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=25750
Neat! Now that that's taken care of... End the Fed!
[Removed]
This is one of those things that must wait until money is out of politics. http://articles.businessinsider.com/2010-09-17/news/30056817_1_marijuana-legalization-california-budget-prop
[Removed]
in 6 months the gov and wallstreet will be begging for forgiveness as the economy falls down around their ears. the noise is cool and all but the magic is yet to come. hope you guys have an organized msg by then.
because it's big profits for private prisons, and siphons tax dollars to weapons building and multiple "corporate friends" of DEA, CIA and government officials.
Occupy Wall Street cannot be a true grassroots movement if the legalization of cannabis is not on the top three demands.
Sorry, this is not a matter of opinion.
This mess we are into would not have been possible if cannabis remained legal.
The prohibition of cannabis was born on lies, and a huge sickening lie is what it is.
Where do you think all the billions and billions of drug money go through? Yes. BANKS...
Again... I cannot believe in this movement if the legalization of cannabis is not on the top three demands, and you shouldn't either.
My suggestion:
Jubilee, Debts forgiven for everyone.
Free Cannabis, End the Prohibition.
Keep simple and bold. Most will understand and support this, if they do some research.
Remember, this is WorldWide... countries, individuals. Don't get stuck on how we are going to do this. It will be natural, like a woman in labor. Some pain... but we'll feel better afterwards... we always do when listen to our conscience and we do what's right.
[Removed]
Occupy Usury... with Love!
;)
It has come down to principle... there's no way on separating honest loans from fraud.
What I'm suggesting IS "our" true bailout... the banks already got theirs... a couple times already.
Let's put value again where it belongs... let them eat their money and gold.
Who really cares about that... everybody knows it does not bring happiness. When we talk about cannabis we talk about real wealth, real value.
We have to focus on our present, on our health (mentally, physically and spiritually), but we have to stop thinking about them in terms of money.
That's the key, everyone know this deep inside (for Christ's sake!).
See H.R. 2306 "Ending Federal Marijuana Prohibition Act of 2011" and call your representatives.
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h112-2306
The war on drugs will continue because there are too many people in this country making a fortune waging that war. Tougher enforcement levels escalate the level of violence associated with the trafficking of drugs which is used to justify even tougher enforcement. This is the price America must pay so that a few profiteers can become rich. In the long run it is a war that cannot be won. How can a country win a war that it declares on itself?
[Removed]
It is a bitch made way to put people in prison and make them unemployable. It also hinders its use as medicinal, and makes highly expensive drugs the only solution for current ailments, while turning poor, stressed out, law abiding people into alcoholics.
i feel that the biggest problem with this is that by demanding marijuana legalization most of the other demands will be overlooked and we will be considered a radical druggy protest. legalization is an issue we would all like to be conquered (for the most part) but i think it is a battle for another day. with the power and backing that we currently have i think we need to choose our battles wisely and snowball, a legalization demand may giving the opposition ammo to go crazy on. although its a very valid point well germane to the movement, it will be easy to turn it around and potentially do more bad than good
Turns out the War on Drugs was a con. A "Look over there!" while Corporations took over the world. And getting the citizenry excited to lock up as many of their own for as long as they can, was a bonus.
Sent my letter at http://occupywallst.org/forum/marijuana-prohibition-a-letter-to-my-elected-offic/ to your representatives !
NBC? Wow, this is a new take. Well typed, I can't watch that stuff. 'Cops' is like an exercise in Constitutional rape.
[Removed]
This is the first time I ever heard anyone mention this, other than myself. My mother and sister watch it like everyone else and then claim to be liberal/libertarians! Same with Law & Order too, for me.
Agree..having watched Lockup Raw,Shawshank, books, etc. The 8th Amendment said something about 'cruel & unusual punishments inflicted' - long, long, ago it stated those words, that is. They have no meaning now, it is a machine - w out any sould , designed to destroy..
If standard prison in this country (or many others) isn't torture of humans, WTF is?? Why do people regard this as some kind of norm, to be goofed on?
And that we lockup the largest percentage of citizens on the planet. I've taken to calling prisons 'rape camp'. All those kids downloading songs will be the next frontier. For forty years we've been told 'drugs' were the problem, while bankers looted this country.
Probably mainly because it has absolutely NOTHING to do with anything related to the occupation of Wall Street. I mean sure, when you think about Wall Street, what's the first thing you think of? Why, pot of course! And the legalization thereof, natch.
I just sent the following e-mail (with slight modifications), to the President, my Senators, my Representatives, the Governor of my State, and my various State representatives/senators.
Honorable President Obama,
I am writing to urge you stop Marijuana Prohibition. Though I am personally opposed to the use of marijuana, I just viewed Ken Burn's excellent documentary "Prohibition," and it strikes me we have made the same mistake in regards marijuana as we made with alcohol between 1920 and 1933.
Just as in the prior Prohibition, citizens continue to use marijuana in spite of the law, and we suffer egregious consequences in our efforts to stop them; we spend a small fortune fighting a war long ago lost, have filled our prisons, fueled organized crime, and suffer violence on our borders.
California has proven there is a better way with it's anti-smoking campaign; tax the product, regulate where it can be used, and spend revenues to educate the public of it's dangers.
I urge you to lead the country in reversing our failed Prohibition policy, and I thank you for considering my position on this matter.
Respectfully,
Name, Address, Phone, and E-Mail
[Removed]
Being a conservative, I would suggest this issue be attacked NOT from the perspective of "Marijuana is OK" but from the perspective of "Marijuana prohibition is working no better than Alcohol Prohibition worked, and it's fueling organized crime just like the first Prohibition." Now is a pretty good time to remind folks of this given the recent publication of Ken Burns' "Prohibition" ( http://www.pbs.org/kenburns/prohibition/ ), the violence occurring along our border, the well known statistics regarding our prison population/costs, and the need for tax revenue.
I am personally opposed to people using marijuana, but the fact is, people are going to use it ( just as they used alcohol in spite of prohibition ), and we're causing more damage with our policies than good.
In addition, we have recent examples of an alternate strategy that works: California has successfully cut cigarette smoking way back by limiting where it can be done and by using tax reviews levied on cigarettes to 'indoctrinate' our youth against smoking. The success of these efforts is readily proven.
Legalize it, tax it, restrict where it can be used, impose stiff penalties for driving while intoxicated, etc, and spend tax revenue to teach our kids and the general public not to use it.
[Removed]
OK, maybe we should say "educate" our youth and the general public ;o)
because the drug wars have divided the people
This reminds me of a poster I once saw... it was two soldiers, one said "I can't wait until this war on terror is over!" the other replied "remember the war on drugs? and now there are no more drugs." ...lol but seriously, legalize marijuana! though on the other hand it IS nice to buy something not regulated and taxed by the government.
[Removed]
I thought it was a top demand?
This would derail the movement and it would never be taken seriously. That is a issue unfortunately must be addressed much later down the road. Demand revamp of the legal system and this would take care of this problem
Ending the war on drugs is a specific, actionable step towards revamping the legal system. To demand a revamp of the legal system but without any examples of what that means is vague. This vagueness is what hurts the credibility of this movement. How do you revamp the legal system? By restoring freedom? By making it impossible to step out of line? How? Ending the drug war is a specific step, and it helps reveal the nature of the person pushing for it. Demanding a revamp of the legal system says nothing about who's saying it. It says nothing for a movement demanding it. It says absolutely nothing except you don't like it. This movement has the ear of the world. Say something of substance that is actionable, besides "we don't like stuff," back it up with logic, and people will listen.
[Removed]
There is easy answers to any of this and I do agree that we should end the wars on drugs because there was never any war to begin with. Our prisons, police officers, lawyers are dependent on the fact that we never win the war on drugs. The war on drugs is a smoke and mirrors screen to fool the public that they cared. NOT!
Unfortunately, this is a fight that will have to resume later. Everything can't be dealt with at one time. The attitude towards drugs is shifting in society, but it takes a generation. This will start to reform itself naturally as the guard change begins. Right now we have to focus on getting money out of politics and electing common sense candidates to begin fixing the broken machine of our government. The War on Drugs is one of MANY broken policies that must be fixed, but to put it on the top of the list would be a turn off to many of the Boomers and elderly supporting the cause. Remember, these are the generations that were first indoctrinated into this system of conducting a 'WAR' against drugs. Interesting how it started at the beginning rise of pharma drugs.
[Removed]
Be careful. The government unions have very little to do with this. The privatized prison complex uses laborers WITHOUT benefits. At least a union would provide a decent living. Many corrections officers today are making peanuts next to what the job used to pay.
It is definitely about feeding private corporations.
[Removed]
Which government union workers are you referring to specifically?
Do you really think there is a union protecting the corrections officers at PRIVATIZED prisons? That's the reason WHY they want them privatized. To BUST the unions.
Have you not read even a single post of mine on this thread? Whether the prisons are private (Corporate Profits), or State Run (Union Profits), they are immoral if they are filled with people surrounding our drug laws. It is not a union issue, though the unions are part of the problem.
I would prefer we had government prisons with unions in them than private prisons with profiteers in them.
They have all become immoral, but the concept of prison in and of itself is not immoral. We need a place to house those that break the law. I don't think that prisons should draw a profit. That is just disgusting. Our criminals are a collective issue, and there shouldn't be a problem paying for this collectively. Privatization is a farce and it perverts systems such as prison, health care and education. If the public coffers pay the tab, why do we call things privatized? There's nothing private about a public check.
And as far as unions go, I won't argue that they need to be revamped, just like government, but I won't say they need to disappear either. America's middle class was vibrant and healthy when there was a strong union presence. With only 7% of our citizens remaining part of a union, it is no wonder the middle class is disappearing. People quickly forget how things were before unions, and it is sad how many are so eager to go back.
[Removed]
7% is the overall national average for both public and private unions, and yes, public unions are still around 40%. I would say the government crackdown on the ATC in the early 80's, coupled with private sector threats regarding new unions have had more to do with the severe union decline over the last 30 years than the loss of manufacturing. The manufacturers chose to send jobs overseas because of unions and their demands. The government should have nailed them through tariffs and taxation when they started outsourcing to save on labor. Until we are paying the prices of the Chinese, we shouldn't be forced to compete with their wages.
One could argue that the current attack against public unions will impact women's salaries, as these unions are top-heavy with women (nurses, teachers, social workers). These are the people we are truly sending up the river so that privatization can take over, and CEO pay can climb to 1000 times that of their average worker.
We need a re-set!
I agree that unions need to be modified, however, workers are better off when there is a form of collective bargaining. We have all seen what private industry will do to the wages and benefits of their employees when they do not have a collective voice.
It is sad that public sector union jobs now pay more than the private sector. This is not how it used to be.
[Removed]
We definitely agree on your closing notation. We have way too many people incarcerated for victimless crimes.
the right to have ownership over ones own body seems important to me but it might be too libertarian for this group.
well some of us feel we have the right to be safe in the streets. its bad enough we have to worry about drunk people running people down in their cars, all we need is a massive influx of stoners contributing to that as well, which already happens enough as it is.
or people having some violent "freak out" because their paranoia conspiracy theorism is further exacerbated by their "mind altering" substance of choice. i've always found it to be an interesting contradiction that almost every instance of pot smoking i've been privy to results in a degree of hysteria and aggressive lashing out by the partakers, for all of their banter and rhetoric of peace and being mellow.
I guess the 'legal' drugs like Percocet, Oxy and Vicodin make you feel a lot better...
You'd be AMAZED at how many people are addicted to these drugs and drive on the streets every day.
not all of the illegal drugs are mind altering. And there is a difference between being inebriated and getting in to a motor vehicle while being inebriated. One is a crime and should always be considered that, the other is not.
[Removed]
yeah abortion is one area that I won't really go. It's just a waste of time. I think the prison industrial complex fits right in with all the other fascism that OWS has a problem with, however.
I like this conversation but I think you and I are more libertarian than most of the other members and out of respect we shouldn't try to steer OWS to the right (not that you are). But some of the more left wing people will try to tag environmental issues along with the main goals of the movement and I don't see the numbers remaining high if that happens.
[Removed]
those are good points. I don't know but I do think that the 99% will quickly become the 9% if a carbon tax is included in a list of demands.
[Removed]
what about independents? they are the majority of the country. aren't they 40%?
either way we are outnumbered by at least 3:1
[Removed]
i'm pretty sure we got a good number of independents. I'm independent to a degree.
do you think RP people are 11%?
[Removed]
I'm a social liberal. I would have to plug my nose and vote for a social conservative if I felt they would really fix the economy. Unfortunately, Bachman is a lawyer and I don't believe she knows what to do either. RP doesn't talk religion, you notice that? I like it.
[Removed]
When we get the money out of politics, citizen legislators will be able to handle the rest of these problems.
[Removed]
They can't push without money
[Removed]
No one will listen if they can't buy TV time or fund "studies." There are more people who want to end the drug war than want to continue it. One man one vote. Take the money out of the equations and the republic functions again.
[Removed]
No one should be able to use money to influence an election. Period. Individuals can go door to door, put messages on the internet, whatever. The moment it involves money a line has been crossed.
[Removed]
That is not the same and you know it. If I paid SNL to mock my opponent, that's different.
[Removed]
People who watch GB and Maddow already agree with them. That is not the same has giving PACs unlimited, untraceable money to spend any way they want. Politicians get to keep their campaign warchests when they retire.
I was making a generalization. I apologize. Seriously though. Networks play the shows that will make them money by selling ads. They aren't really for or against anyone, they just play to demographics.
Having a TV talk show is not the same as throwing money hand over fist at PACs and campaigns.
[Removed]
And that is why I say rewrite the laws, eliminate the lawyers, prisons should never make a profit, reduce the numbers in law enforcement, and the list goes on.
when will we ever learn????
the anti-drug dictators make a fortune out of this and will fight against US with everything they have if we put this forward
we will have enough enemies and liars throwing their shit at us over very serious issues such as
corporations are not people and
tax the rich to employ the people.
when you are trying to clean the house, stirring the toilet first is a mistake.
[Removed]
We agree at least that much. Tea Party + OWS = lots of scared politicians
[Removed]
I've been saying that all along.
of course i agree with you
lets back the tea party - that wants to get rid of the government -
that has done such a lousy job of regulating the corporations that own them
and let the corporations run everything directly
soylent green is coming....
[Removed]
check out soylent green to know where i stand
www.dpa.org
100% of the prison population is there for breaking LAWS, drug related or not. Of your 50%, very few are marijuana related. You cannot go to jail for smoking pot. Whether those laws are eliminated matters not. These people broke the law.
Lets see in Az you can goes to prison for 5 years for one joint. If you take a piss behind a dumpster you are a sex offender, if two teenagers have sex being under 18 they can wait until the male turns 18 and convict him of sex crimes and can get 8 years. This is what your legal system is getting away with and its sole purpose is to feed the prisons, law enforcement, lawyers, judges their nice salaries.
[Removed]
I think a lot of the more recent vintage 1% got there via coke's intent.
Smoking attributes to approximately 438,000 premature deaths per year. Alcohol, at least 200,000 (either health, or DUI related).
So, you want to throw gas on the fire?
[Removed]
Who cares of they are legal or not? Again, no point whatsoever.
Second, people aren't going to prison for DOING drugs you IDIOT. I don't know anyone who has been sent to prison for being a crack HEAD.
The people who go to prison are the dealers, makers, and distributors. I wouldn't expect you to know that.
[Removed]
I think it's fucking hilarious that the people who want to legalize drugs are the very same people who protest against big tobacco and big alcohol.
I also think it's fucking hilarious that the prison population is more important to you then the ramifications of legalizing drugs.
[Removed]
I got news for you we already are a nation of drug addicts from illegal to legal sources of drug of choice. Perhaps if we lived in a society that was not corrupt and integrity was not lost, people would not feel that they have to be numb to cope with it.
[Removed]
I agree
You didn't address my comment at all, you stupid fuck.
[Removed]
good damn question! All other issues aside it is a great economic crop for hundreds of uses! carry on
That's a legitimate cause but a very different one, one that it would be Ill-dvised to associate with OWS, a movement already dismissed by many as a bunch of stoners. Stay focused on the core issue of reforming democracy from corporate influence.
[Removed]
I never said there was just one demand, I pointed out what the main grievance is. There are no 'official demands', much less 12.
Face it, the pot thing is a dumb idea. You don't seem to realize how Cali-centric this issue is.
[Removed]
Certainly border control is a bigger issue in border states than elsewhere. California also has more prisons than most states. These are national issues but they are more pressing in California, yes.
In any case, these issues are far removed from the main concerns of the OWS movement, which has to do with concentrated wealth and its corroding effect on the democratic process. You seem to have other priorities.
[Removed]
You're the one acting like you speak for OWS, speaking of THE 12 demands and such.
[Removed]
Fine, but they're still just 12 floated demands. There is no 'official' list.
[Removed]
That will happen naturally when democracy is restored. The polls all show this,. it is corporations (alcohol, tobacco, big pharma), and militarised law enforcement agencies that generate income seizing peoples property,. and private corporate for profit prisons,. these are the only groups working to keep flowers a crime.
[Removed]
because it does not need to be,. fixing the problems of corporate money in politics and a crippled democracy,. will remove the roadblocks to fixing many issues we have under this corporate rule,. when the people not the corporation decide, many things will change.
[Removed]
you really need to pull back on the insults and name calling it only serves to show your small minded, anti-social tendencies.
The number of law-enforcment/prison industrial complex workers is no where near the majority,. simple math that.
[Removed]
One more thing. When the corporations get involved, you all can look forward to an ounce of weed costing mega-bucks, so making it legal may not be the best thing. I would hope if it gets legal that it would be legal for individuals to grow a few plants for themselves and not just to be able to buy it without supporting drug cartels or corporations etc
By the way, Ron Lawl supports legalization of marijuana.. and all other drugs. Wouldn't it be funny to see Ron Lawl and obama arguing about it?
If he ran independent and had Nader be his vice president, or vice versa, he would get my vote. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwIZ4syCFLc&feature=share
Prop 19 was a buzzkill to me. The hippies in humboldt and mendocino voted AGAINST legalization to protect their profits! WTF! Go Bay Area, we voted around 70% FOR it.
[Removed]
because we are fighting against 1%. I do not think the 1% uses marijuana.. so why should occupy wallstreet even talk about marijuana. This is not lobbying protest. Take your marjuana thing outside of occupy discussions.
These "official OWS demands" you speak of... can you point me to the link?
Most of the criminals I've met in my life, my opinion, you don't want to run into them on the street. Nah... they're really not nice people. They're just victimizers who play the victim card. If it were me, I'd throw away the key. Literally.
It depends... can you define "drug related offenses"? Because my opinion of them in general is that they are not a good thing.
If you smoke pot you are responsible for Mexico's drug war and the killing of 40,000 since 2006
[Removed]
Probably because it's a trivial issue
You guys really need to focus on one or two issues. May I humbly suggest that adding legalization to this list will reduce your credibility on the wall street reform issue, and that you therefore save the legalization fight for another day?
No one would take them seriously right now if they did put it on the list.
Don't support smoking weed, but it should be legalized:
No one remembered to make the demand because we are all stoned. Even if you are not smoking, just being at the Park and breathing the air is enough to get you high!
Because now is a time to be sober. If we seek pot, we end up being mindless right-wing zombies like
mikey D
[Removed]
no, they encourage others to do so.
[Removed]
Nope, just those that break the law... Moron. peaceful protest is LEGAL, though you neocon dipshits wish otherwise.
[Removed]
LOL, you just proved my point, neocons are criminal, and they want things legal criminalized and things illeagal decriminalized, they were always morally bankrupt before they decided to bankrupt the country.
The inmates control the asylum and cannot understand the sane.
[Removed]
I think they were stoned and hahaha forgot dude? Pass the dubie.
This is an emergency Notice to all members of occupy James Damiano the very person who's been for over twelve years fighting the law firm that represents goldman sachs has been banned from this forum. Mr. Damiano is probably one of the most knowledgeable members and has contributed a wealth of information pertaining to the issues at hand in the Occupy forum
For more information e-mail thestealing@gmail.com or see http://wikileaksyola.yolasite.com/
--
This is an emergency Notice to all members of occupy James Damiano the very person who's been for over twelve years fighting the law firm that represents goldman sachs has been banned from this forum. Mr. Damiano is probably one of the most knowledgeable members and has contributed a wealth of information pertaining to the issues at hand in the Occupy forum
For more information e-mail thestealing@gmail.com or see http://wikileaksyola.yolasite.com/
--
I know there are many who cannot see through the smoke... but consider that drugs have almost entirely decimated our minority population and the severity of this crime becomes all too painfully clear.
exactly (besides, look what they did to mikey d)
[Removed]
No... I would advocate far more purposeful measures such as those employed in China. Because continuing to encourage drug use is far too devastating to our population.
You make sense yes, however, if you're going to use "drugs" as an umbrella term then that should also include: caffeine, nicotine, ALCOHOL. Alcohol and nicotine, I have noticed is far more destructive and dangerous than Marijuana. Nicotine is highly addictive and excessive consumption of alcohol can often lead to violence, dependence and death. These two substances however are not typically grouped under the term "drugs" whereas marijuana, which it has been scientifically proven virtually impossible to overdose on, it grouped with substances such as cocaine, heroin, methamphetamine etc which are HIGHLY DANGEROUS substances.
Also if marijuana is legalized, it will then be regulated (which i don't believe in but hey, it's for the common good here) thus getting rid of many black market dealers who often have access to hard substances, making it easier for people who use marijuana to come into contact with less desirable far more dangerous substances, especially those who are vunerable to experimenting.
I was a long time proponent of legalization (and I mean a complete legalization) until more recently... My theory, of course, was that it would not only entirely remove the cartels from the equation but also deflate the desire for synthetic alternatives. I have since modified my stance because I am now thoroughly convinced that if any were legalized, government, in an effort to discourage use as cost prohibitive, would immediately impose a tremendous sin tax.
The full extent of our Libertarianism has already been fully tested - government, with full support of the populace, is now taxing cigarettes by as much as 1000% (and cigarettes are no more harmful than repetitive marijuana use). Who would have ever believed that in a supposed free country, that a product, such as cigarettes would be taxed, not for consumption per se, but for possession, with a full 1000% plus sales tax?
So, I think, here again, even with legalization, the black market must prevail.
The effect of our drug culture on minorities and poor whites has been absolutely devastating. Not only will it criminalize one in three, it also creates an alternative that permits far too many to easily discard traditional survival based methods of productivity and creativity, and forgo education in any form, in favor of a demoralizing "high."
If it were left to me, the penalties for production, possession, or sale (but not use) would be severe. And the palaces of the drug lord would simply go up in smoke. Because this is a war for the minds and survival based productivity of a future America.
The idea that we can somehow "raise ourselves up" while simultaneously selling the benefit of a perpetual high are simply incongruous.
marijuana possession is hardly HARDLY criminalized. you have more of a chance of going to prison for urinating on an empty subway car at 3:37 in the morning than for being caught with it.
And by the way, if it were legalized it would still be unregulated by everyone who makes their living off selling it with out having to pay the taxes anyway.
[Removed]
You're high, right?
[Removed]
Even with methadone, I see no benefit to society and now you want the tax payer to provide all your drugs for free?
[Removed]
I don't consider heroin or meth to be medicinal. And I definitely don't believe we should be paying for another's methadone. There are much more efficient remedies.
[Removed]
We weren't talking about Big Pharma... and I never implied that people should be jailed for illegal drug use. What I was recommending were far more severe penalties for production, possession with intent to sell, and sale. Personally, I would take China's approach. In fact, I see no reason whatsoever to jail anyone.
This drug culture, this bastardly child of the 60's, has decimated our minority population - less than 50% even graduate high school. It's not just jail sentences or its impact on future employment... it's use and addiction, ill heath, shortened life, disruption of family... loss of productivity, creativity, self determinism... it's poverty and generational despair. And for white America to keep promoting it as somehow normal, or acceptable, or as an encouragement of our liberal humanity is absolutely wrong. It's enslaving our people.
[Removed]
I am absolutely for executions. Those that live to continually victimize others will never be a productive element of society; we would be better off without them.
Occupy the DEA!
That's a state by state issue. If you believe it should be legal, for medicinal use or just in general, write your reps and get as many people registered to vote as you can.
Unfortunately it's not a state to state issue because it's illegal under federal law. Even in state's like California who legalized it for medicinal purposes, grow houses that supply medical marijuana are still being raided. On some issues you can write your state reps to get change, this is not one of those things.
oops, you are right. Point taken, but it is legal for medicinal use in quite a few states. That's why I say write your reps. I believe President Nixon was the one who changed it's legal classification to be the same a s much harder drugs. IMO, that should be reversed. Marijuana should be legal.
no one wants to get busted
I keep forgetting to mention it.
it should be at number 1 really on the list. It is a human freedom issue and i will take those over money issues.....even though i support ows. Prison industrial complex and the war on drugs need to be a giant demand.
Geeze, we're trying to act normal so the brain dead straights will come join us! Stop pushing this shit.
[Removed]
Because it causes lung cancer, panic attacks and other mental illnesses after long term use.
[Removed]
Then do not ask me to pay for your healthcare with my taxes. Do what ever you want with yiur body, just do not expect others to pay for your bad decisions.
[Removed]
Legalized pot would be a good sourse of tax revenue and also its production could be regulated so its more pure
[Removed]
Oh shit we forget. :)
You people are struggleing to get all of the 99% on your side with your current message, how would calling for legalization of drugs help that at all?
Because an overwheming majority of people have tried pot and support it's legalization.
no they don't
"Gallup reports that the 50% nationwide support for legalization... Support for marijuana legalization remains greatest in the Western states (55%) and majorities support legalization in the Midwest (54%) and East (51%). Only voters in the South still oppose marijuana legalization (44%). Men still support legalization at a much greater rate than women (55% vs. 46%)"
This is from the Gallup poll. I was wrong to say an overwhelming majority, but it is still greater than half. Believe it or not there are people out there that know marijuana is not that dangerous and it should not be illegal while alcohol and tobacco remain legal. Not one person in recorded history has died from marijuana. Why are we still locking people up for this shit?
No ones dies from alchol or tobacco either. People die from the effects of it and in the case of booze, we do lock them up. And plus how do you set the line once you start allowing drugs?
If someone dies from the effects of a substance that still counts towards the death toll specific to that drug. And you are wrong again because people do die directly from alcohol overdose and not just from the side-effects. The thing I am trying to point out here is that nobody has ever died from a marijuana overdose and nobody has ever died from it's side-effects. Smoking marijuana is a victomless crime and half of our prison population is filled with people that haven't hurt anyone. Even if you still think marijuana is dangerous to that person, which is a fairy tale spun over the years, then that is that individuals problem. We can have treatment centers for addicts, but locking them up in prison only takes non-violent people and turns them violent. If everyone had all ofthe facts about marijuana and ignored the misinformation spread by the media, marijuana legalization wouldn't even by debatable anymore. It would be the logical answer.
[Removed]
Yeah, lets have the junkies walking around legit. I guess the 50 percent should have followed the law, like it or not, it IS the law. If you want to stay out of the joint, don't smoke them.
[Removed]
I quit drinking and doing drugs a long time ago, and while I lost a few friends. I ended up having kids, getting a house, ect... stuff I never would have had otherwise.
Like I said, if it's illegal, it's illegal. Maybe one day the laws will change, but until then too bad. I have no pity whatsoever for druggies. I used to be one.
I get real tired of hearing people crying it's everybodys fault but theirs. Take some responsibility.
It's illegal in China to have more than one child, or you must pay a fine. It was illegal for woman to vote, for blacks to vote, for blacks to own property. Hell blacks couldn't take a piss next to a white person. Just because something is illegal doesn't mean we have to be obedient. There have been bull shit laws in the past and there are bull shit laws now.
I know what you mean. I'm a truck driver and drive trucks that will do well over 90 but for some reason if I do the man gets upset.
I used to ALWAYS have a pistol of some sort with me when I had to go to NYC, had to take my chances with the law there. I hate cities.
Anyway, I fail to see what civil rights has to do with drugs, but whatever.
[Removed]
It says to me they need to stay away from dope.
[Removed]
I have NO plans on ever going to NYC again for any reason. I might have to drive through on 95 if I go over the road again, but that'll be it. I hate that place.
[Deleted]
I think it's useful for certain medicinal purposes, but generally I think it rots your mind. Most people I know who use it regularly are in denial about their dependence on the drug and the effect it's having on their daily lives and their mental health and clarity. I'm not sure how a docile, compliant, spaced out stoner can forge revolution.
I wasted alot of my life doing drugs, not to mention money. Lots and lots of money. If I can leave that culture, anybody can. Oh, being that my living started to become dependant on drug testing, that helped with my decision as well.
I did too. I believe that it's only when you get healthy that you realise how sick you were.
OWS didn't know it was illegal. They've been high too long.