Forum Post: The occupation will fail without organization!!!!
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 25, 2011, 6:17 p.m. EST by ohhhhdede4
(22)
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I was an avid supporter of the protests when they first started. The first night I drove 5 hours to NY just to be apart of things. I have been following the movement non-stop. I am saddened by the lack of organization and control. I understand the point of this movement. I get it. Truly. But without organization, a leader, a mission, this movement will fade out and die. And that is EXACTLY what the people up top are waiting for. Have you noticed that we've gotten little response from the government? Who do they have to contact? And what could they possibly have to say when there are so many issues at hand that we don't even have a mission statement? I honestly think that we need to break this revolution down and figure out what the core issues are. Not everyone is upset about everything, and if you are, be a part of everything. These issues should lie under the OWS name, but things cannot change if there's no direction to go in. This movement is too broad to have a real effect. Please, I am posting this because I have so much hope in all of you out there, we need to calm down, get our adrenaline under control, and get it together. Otherwise, this whole thing will just burn out. I am not trying to commit cyber suicide, I am just being logical. Our actions will not give us the results we are protesting for.
Thank you, Danielle Washington, DC
Only about a Month and people are crying we need a leader and we need a list. It's like watching Fox news that's all they say. OWS is doing just fine as it is.
People THINK!!! Don't drink the KOOL-AID here - OWS is successful BECAUSE it isn"t organized !!! each and every one of you are equal to effect change - organizing the OWS will fracture your participation - you will become the very thing you are fighting here - sheepeople !!! stay independent and you stay united to discover something about this country and about yourselves that just might be completely new!!! on the equal and the level playing field - If you remain "undefined" you will continue to be available to whomever wishes to join this movement - as soon as you organize you alienate and define yourselves as a target - peace AtomicZ...
having a clear goal doesn't alienate me or anyone else. how can we succeed when we are all separated? educate yourself, OWS is a great way to get people together, but we are coming together with different issues and if we all want to be heard, we need to get organized.
That is the trap... something you were taught in kindergarten to get you to lay down with everyone else at nap time... stay open and discover new ways to accomplish the different issues - if you unite you diffuse all of the issues in favor of a few - the media has that andy warhol 15 minutes of fame shelf life moment uniting this will start the clock on the 15 minutes - don't start the clock - don't drink the kool-aid - don't let it slip away - each and every one who wants their voice and story to get told here has a value here - you can't organize values !!! What the OWS is accomplishing here is something new!!! peace AtomicZ...
I guess only time will tell who is right...I hope it is you.
I hope we all get it right - I now think moving the entire OWS city by city into DC is a better scenario because: One logical conclusion here is the tax revenue used directly or indirectly by each city to support OWS... If one teacher or firefighter or peace officer looses their job due to cutbacks from diminishing tax revenue in the "O" cities then OWS is doing a disservice to that city... Which flies in the face of the principals of a moral society. Which you are all here to uphold. Moving the party to DC will create a fresh media event [ keeping OWS on the radar ] and will relieve any city services now in place to support OWS in all of the major cities - You all now and are living the financial meltdown... OWS simply does not have the luxury to use the public money in this way. Collectively OWS relocation into DC [ not sure about this ] would be taping federal money... peace AtomicZ...
agreed. so lets get organized. i have been saying this since the beginning.
i now have a wiki upon which we can get organized. please come help to generate that organization. http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Main_Page
http://www.followthemoney.org/?gclid=CMbY87bB-qsCFUPt7Qod9HE8mQ
http://maplight.org/us-congress/guide/data/money?9gtype=search&9gkw=list%20of%20campaign%20donations&9gad=6213192521.1&9gag=1786513361&gclid=CP61oYbB-qsCFQFZ7AodcTF0jw
http://www.opensecrets.org/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/non-violence-evolution-by-paradigm-shift/
Maybe we should co-opt the movement and become our own leaders. The movement has provided the foundation for this since it is somewhat decentralized. OccupyEverywhere.
What do you want to work on changing? Get some other people inspired! Have at it!
OWS is about inspiring people, explaining injustices and how the system has been hijacked, and leaving it up to us to figure out what we want to do about it.
I think so too. If "we" are our demands, then it just follows that "we" need to be our own leaders too.
My Representative stinks. He actually wants to scale back Dodd-Frank. I've disliked him for a long time. I think he's high on drugs - of the corruption kind. I want Glass-Stegall re-enacted. I think Wall Street should be brought to justice for their crimes. I want some Campaign Finance Reform. I think BIG corporations are too BIG and are destroying our society. Didn't we used to have Anti-Trust laws to prevent that kind of thing?? What happened with that?!
I'm looking into alternative (libertarian) candidates to get behind locally. I am considering doing some volunteer work for Gov. Buddy Roemer.
http://www.buddyroemer.com/
Maybe at some point "demands" or a "leader" will emerge from OWS. But I'm not going to sit around talking about it, asking about it and waiting.
You're right. I also think that big businesses are too big. They're too powerful and have too much control. I would like to see them taxed properly, downsize, and come home.
I'm not sure how we make downsizing happen. Maybe some kind of limits on something - like % of market share?? To prevent corps from becoming to big. I think they got BIG by claiming it was "good" for the consumer. yeah right! And Wall Street is the height of ethics and morality!
All I know is that I'm going to get more active in my own community and area. Maybe if we all do some of those little things, it will translate to the big changes that we want to see.
Couldn't have said it better ohhhhdede4! It's the sentiment that most seem to have except for the ones who feel things will just magically start happening.
and lets see if they delete this thread
why would they delete this?
becuase if you say anything they dont like they will eliminate you
who is "they" anyway... ugh i am losing all hope.
don't lose hope in what made you excited about what you thought this was. there seems to be very real and big questions about this group at the top but that doesn't mean what thye started cannot pop up again somewhere else and be lasting
Chris Hedges and Amy Goodman think they are quite organized.
Hedges may be a good writer, but if he wants to be a leader, he needs to chill with his outrageous comments (at least the televised ones), figure out what the people want, and actually step into the role. I have no objections to Amy as of now...but if these people want to run things, they need to run things.
We need to ban together. See, it's strident lefties like you who are the problem
I'm a radical willing to work with liberals, moderates..
strident lefties like me? you don't even know me...and not once have i posted anything about my political ideals...just opinions and suggestions...back off
Danielle, I live in DC... is there a central forum anywhere for DC ? the OccupyDC and no entries ????????? thanks
this is the "official" website for occupy DC http://occupydc.org/forums/ although no one seems to know who is running it... the same way no one seems to know who is running this site too. I have been trying to get in touch with someone in charge, but it is just becoming clearer and clearer that there is no one in charge.
hehe... ok... I guess we gotta go down to the mall Saturday ;)
The trolls are running this site. Isn't it obvious?
maybe... maybe not... but "We Are The 99%" are really running it ;)
Anonymous is running this site.
hehe... we are all Anonymous .. no ? ;)
I agree. There are many angry people out there who are completely upset with the status quo. That anger is evident in the growing protests around the nation and around the world. Unfocused energy is impressive but, lacking a message, it is ineffective. The organizers (whoever they are) say "we are our demands". That is nothing but a meaningless slogan. #OWS has proven it can organize mass protests, but it has yet to show it has a clear message, nor has it brought its demonstrations in massive numbers to the location where it counts ; i.e., Washington DC, which is the seat of power. Perhaps, my assessment is premature. Perhaps, this movement will channel its justified anger intelligently and state its demands for all to see at some point. Hopefully, if and when those demands are made public, they will be acceptable to the majority of protesters and hopefully the demands will be realistic and achievable. Time will tell. In the meantime, there is a growing suspicion by many that this movement is just an Obama re-election stunt that will manifest itself for what it is next year before the general election.
Yes a much needed "lack of organization and control",. the old ways have failed over and over again. a radical brake with what has already been tried is what is needed and what we are seeing.
It's a mindset like this that is going to lead this all to failure. When has lack of organization and control ever led to success? Even the Libyans and Egyptians were more organized than us! They had clear goals and they could follow through BECAUSE they had clear goals. They succeeded because they all worked TOGETHER for the MISSION
" they all worked TOGETHER for the MISSION" you sound like a toy soldier,. some if us would just like to; work together with interested people to reorganise the social structure through voluntary cooperation in affinity groups, for the common good. some times the language we use is important. military words are not welcome in a joyful rebellion, a peaceful revolution.
what are you talking about? are you just on here to argue? who cares how I put it if what I'm saying is true...did you forget that the Egyptians are who inspired us in the first place?
if you come from a military mindset,. then you will always seek more organization and control, and more hierarchy. This movement is not based on a hierarchy, or a ridged control structure,. The movement will not fail as you say,. due to the way it is organized. it is a different paradigm than many americans are used to,. but that is what we need at this time.
okay, but what happens when someone like me wants to speak with someone from the movement? Who can I talk to? Who are these people on tv claiming to be MY voice, when I haven't talked to them... and who cares if I do since they aren't in charge, right? Do you see how this can very easily burn out? We need leaders....It's not a military mindset at all. I still think we should all be together fighting, but this isn't together...how can our voices be heard if we're all talking at the same time?
If people want to be involved in the movement,. they should learn a bit about it before becoming active,. that is just simple logic.
from the occupywallst.org about page; "Occupy Wall Street is a horizontally organized resistance movement employing the revolutionary Arab Spring tactic to restore democracy in America. We use a tool known as a "people's assembly" to facilitate collective decision making in an open, participatory and non-binding manner."
Horizontally organized means all participants have equal say, non-hierarchical,. a democratic principle. this means no leaders,. all are free to convince others of their great ideas,. and they rise or fall based on merit, not a politician's ego.
This process of direct democracy,. is a major point of these occupations, showing/teaching people that other systems do work,. that social organisation need not be what we have now.
There are many people guiding this protest. Leaders don't need a title. Leaders. Get others to do things without being a boss. If there was no leadership on wallst there would have probably been riots by now. This is a well orchestrated protest. The communication is very good they have made some mistakes( the bridge thing) but overall they have kept a pretty tight ship. They delegate duties well for supposedly not having leaders. Trust me as a marine vet I know how hard it is to get a lot of people all on the same page. They are doing good.
The DC protests are not doing well. They are more like festivals than protests. Also, why do we have two going on at the same time? We have OccupyDC and OccupyWashington...and neither are on the same page about their mission. I didn't post this for no reason. I understand that this may be difficult, but it's impossible without organization and TITLED leaders. I want to see this thing succeed just as much as the next supporter, but it's time to put the passion aside and start being logical.
Read the Egyptian support statement on the 'news' page on this site.
Oh I haven't been down to Washington. That sounds like things need to be fixed. Do what you can to help??? I wish I knew more!
Yes! They do need to be fixed....but how without someone in charge to see all this and manage things? It's too chaotic... The people that are actually putting 2 and 2 together are spread all over.
Leadership has to come from within. True leaders don't need a title they just do. They use tact to delegate. They have a way of making people do stuff without feeling like they were ordered to do so. If I was down there I would try to help but it has to be people who are already down there sumone with respect and good abilities. Find them and nudge them into delegating areas of duty. The best way may just be to gather people up and ask for volunteers to do job a then others to do job b. It's not to difficult. But it is if you aren't there
It would be great if there was actually a fair justice system but no one in WallStreet, government, banks etc that are rich are going to give up their greedy behavior without a fight. Peaceful protests is not going to work this time around.
Get this information before the press - at this time, the number of people that understand it is minute but, once it is understood, first will be a blank stare of surprise and then a plan for outrage! !
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-objective-1-fractional-reserve-lending-is-a-cr/
please read this person's idea http://occupywallst.org/forum/we-want-change-thats-great-now-how-do-we-implement/ We can do this peacefully. We can be successful. We just need to calm down and pull together. If we get organized, we can fight and win.
Please don't post if you can't be serious. Some of us actually care about this movement and see it's potential.
Good luck,
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-objective-1-fractional-reserve-lending-is-a-cr/
Some of us do want that, and are willing to take political action to achieve it; see here: http://occupywallst.org/forum/we-want-change-thats-great-now-how-do-we-implement/ I've been trying to get some of the more firmly apolitical people to move in a similar direction on here, but it's not going so well. What are your thoughts?
There won't be any clear demands or agenda from the movement until next October.
The movement will gather in Philly from July through October and will then come out with their demands and proposals.
It will come out next October .... mere weeks before the presidential election.
Are you now starting to see what this movement is all about?
That makes no sense. Surely with the way things are going, the movement will burn out in a year. There is no direction. We need to sit down and come up with demands and proposals SOON. And we need people to step up and take charge of things NOW.
It makes very clear sense.
The OWS movement is nothing but a distraction to take attention away from the Obama administrations failed policies. This distraction is planned to last the entire campaign season. Culminating with the movement's demands next October in Philly.
The whole movement is a ruse designed to help reelect Obama.
People who actually believe in this movement are being used.
I am very interested to learn more and would like more information about what you're saying.
from what i have learned, a separate ows working group called declarations has put the idea out that a GA on July 4 th. But so fat their declarations are just a support for dems. OWSNYC wants nothing to do with this group but i think owsnyc should grab the idea and change those weak declarations into revolution maybe if you look at yahoo groups you will find that working group
Okay, but things need to be organized WAY sooner than July 4th. Who's gonna stand out in the cold fighting to "end corruption on wallstreet"? Yes, things need change, but OWS is too broad for people to vigorously fight for the next 9 months... If this is true and it really is going to take this long to assemble, the government being behind all of this doesn't seem so far-fetched after all.
lol,. active imagination here.
I vote for me to be the Occupation Movement world-wide's Ultimate Leader for Life. As soon as I am given Occupies bank acct. nos. I will use its growing donations to buy myself a crown and scepter and a cell ph. no. so the leaders of nations can speak with me for you the 99%. How's that idea?