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Forum Post: Stop Blaming Banks

Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 11, 2011, 5:03 p.m. EST by jeremiah757 (9)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Before any reforms, there must be an accurate diagnosis of what caused the banking crisis. It was the housing bubble, and there is plenty of blame to go around.

Long ago, Congress decided to promote home ownership (out of all proportion to home ownership in, say, Europe). They made mortgage interest tax-deductible, which is basically a subsidy to mortgage lenders, and for good measure they created – not one, but two – taxpayer-backed mortgage lenders, FNMA and FRMC. More recently, Congress started pressuring lenders to lower their credit standards and make mortgages available to ever-riskier borrowers.

Contrary to popular belief, banks are not in business to make bad loans and collect foreclosed property. They lose a ton of money when that happens. That’s why all the hassle about credit scores and loan-to-value ratios. Mortgage originators, on the other hand, don’t care what happens after the sale closes. The housing bubble produced many fast-buck brokers, but these are not the legendary fat cat bankers. They are small-time crooks.

Most of the people now having problems with their mortgage payments are presumably honest people who have had some setback. Many, however, were complicit in foisting bad loans onto the mortgage lenders. They may have lied about their financial status, or accepted terms that they knew were untenable. No one should have accepted negative amortization, for instance – borrowers or lenders.

When housing prices stopped going up, the dodgy loans became bad loans and the bad loans choked off the liquidity in the banking system. Banks must borrow from other banks to survive and, after AIG failed, the interbank loans started to dry up. Everyone knew that there was a huge exposure to bad debt but, because the mortgages had been securitized and resold, no one knew for sure who was holding it.

So, the bubble burst. The cascading effect of counterparty risk and vanishing liquidity was exactly like a bank run – those depression-era photos of people lining up outside the banks, only to discover that their savings are gone. The Federal Reserve had to step in and provide cash, and the FDIC did the hard work of unwinding hundred of banks that weren’t “too big to fail.” To those that were, the Treasury made the infamous TARP loans. Otherwise, the financial system would have collapsed – in America and probably around the world.

Avoiding “too big to fail,” in the future, is certainly a good policy goal. So are bringing back Glass-Steagall, and making Sheila Bair the Treasury Secretary. The mortgage interest deduction should be scrapped, and Ms. Bair should unwind FNMA and FRMC. Punitive action against the banks, though – like Dodd-Frank – will simply push one more industry out of America and into China.

20 Comments

20 Comments


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[-] 1 points by MechanicalMoney (208) 12 years ago

Banks created debts and money, and are a part of the problem +1

[-] 1 points by brookej123 (8) 12 years ago

Much of this is half truths or incorrect (based on fairly extensive and critical reading of a wide variety of sources).

The financial system, banks and "shadow banks", bears most of the responsibility, along with the politicians they hired to deregulate them. Most of what the bankers did to get filthy rich and bring down the economy was illegal prior to the passage of two deregulatory bills in 1999 and 2000. The bankers only did what the politicians had allowed them to do. Far more light needs to be thrown on politicians' responsibility for this economic mess.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 12 years ago

Just because they lobbied, successfully, to make criminal behavior legal, does not mean that they were innocent. Just because they were successful in getting regulators to preempt the states enforcement of their laws preventing many of the abuses also doesn't make them innocent. Name an innocent bank so I can start my research to refute you.

[-] 1 points by orionstarman (123) from Kingsville, MD 12 years ago

You got the story right as far as you went. You need to read "The Big Short" by Michael Lewis. He goes in to detail about how the banks were screwing us. Also the banks knew damn well what they were doing thats why all those loan documents got lost.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 12 years ago

Water and banks seek the lowest level. It's called legal or regulatory arbitrage. You say some good things but banks obey Gresham's Law. Bad money drives out good and bad banks drive out good ones. Good money (not counterfeit) is trusted. So are good banks. Should they be protected from the bad ones? There are already bad banks in China but there may be room for a few more. If having the latitude to screw their clients and customers more and more easily is what is keeping them here,what are you willing to sacrifice to keep them?

It is pretty well documented that the major US banks were sometimes inside of the laxly enforced laws (that they spent a lot of money weakening) and they were well beyond moral conduct. If we could get around to prosecuting a few more, the discovery process would be quite informative, as was the (one time) disclosures of the conduct of the Fed during the crisis.

Punitive action against Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid pushed them into Boliva. How much do we miss them?

[-] 1 points by jeremiah757 (9) 12 years ago

Fair enough. Doubtless some played fast and loose – think of Countrywide – and need to be prosecuted. Enforcing the law is one thing, collective punishment is another.

[-] 1 points by sewen (154) 12 years ago

We are talking about the same banks... right? The smaller, community or state banks are not what people are up-in-arms about. It is the Big "Government Street Banks"... "The Too Big To Fail" banks. Anyway, watch Bill Black interviews on TRNN (The Real News Network). TRNN interviews are good, and these interviews are good:

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cV5Q_tCUPj0

Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gD6WK6OpTA

Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oiy4uviLbyg

Part 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x45jqp9HnIA

Part 5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzQosMOWYvo

Then when my websites stop getting hammered look at: http://www.goldenbanksters.com , http://www.just-gov.com , http://www.change-gov.com .

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 12 years ago

Never supported punishing the innocent but reasonable regulation has been totally lacking. Why because backs and please point out the ones who are innocent, Virtually all paid huge sums of money to lobby to change the laws, unfund, intimidate or bribe regulators, and rating firms and preempt states from regulating fraudulent practices and the list goes on. Who is innocent among them of any of this?

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

the banks did 1001 things which are criminal by any sense of that word other than what happens due to the fact that they changed the laws to make it legal. WE should blame the banks for their criminal and anti human and evil actions against the people.


http://www.oligarchyusa.com/

http://www.istockanalyst.com/finance/story/5390832/some-fascinating-stats-about-our-corporate-oligarchy

http://foreignpolicyblogs.com/category/21st-century-challenges/ethicsandeconomics/

According to a 2008 article by David Rothkopf, the world’s 1,100 richest people have almost twice the assets of the poorest 2.5 billion (Rothkopf, 2008). Aside from the obvious problem – that this global elite has their hands in everything from politics to financial institutions – …

http://theprogressiveplaybook.com/2011/09/occupywallstreet-an-american-tahrir/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ght22PnCXy0

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/miles-mogulescu/wisconsin-is-ground-zero_b_825321.html

http://last-lost-empire.com/blog/?tag=global-corporate-oligarchy

To the extent that we, the people, are removed from control over our lands, marketplaces, central banks, and media we are no longer empowered. In practice, those few who do control the land, central bank, media and "free market" are the real rulers of our corrupt and declining "democracy."

Due to propaganda from a corporate-owned and edited media we are kept from knowing, much less debating, the nature of our system. Due to a central bank owned by bankers, media owned by a few global concerns, and trade regime controlled by global corporations (i.e., one designed to remove the people from control over their markets and environments) the vast majority have become little more than latter-day serfs and neo-slaves upon a corporate latifundia.

To restore a semblance of effective democracy and true freedom Americans, and people around the world, need to re-educate themselves as to the true nature of their political and economic systems. Toward this end, OligarchyUSA.com is dedicated to providing old and new information, books, links, reform ideas and debates not easily found or accessed today in establishment media.

OligarchyUSA.com is but one more site and sign of the times as ground-up counter-revolutions arise around the world... all in response to a forced and freedomless globalization courtesy of a ruling global elite perfecting their top-down plutocracy and revolutions of the rich against the poor. In short, democracy is no longer effective today. For this reason, it is toward a restoration of truly effective and representative democracies, and natural freedom, that this site is dedicated.

[-] 1 points by NintyNiner (93) 12 years ago

It takes two to screw us! Politicians to hold us down, so then the Corporations can do the screwing!!! Politicians need better rules to follow to prevent lobbying! We tax payers should fund important elections, so the best person wins and not the one with the most money!!! The movement needs at least these demands!!!!!!!!!!! Pass The Word!!! Lets Get It Together!!!

[-] 1 points by Chromer (124) 12 years ago

So all this was just a big accident?? I don't buy it. There had to be people that knew this was coming down the pipeline but just rode the wave. I also believe that the banks knew this was coming and rigged it to their advantage. I remember around October of 2006, when my mail box was full, everyday with credit card offers. They were handing out money like it was candy, then just before Obama was sworn in as president, Bush gets on national TV and tells everyone, surprise, we have a crises, and AIG wants billions now, with no questions asked. I mean, you really want me to believe, with all the smart people in this country running this circus, that they did not plan for this, maybe even as a contingency. People in high places in government and some corporations had to know this was coming. As far as I am concerned the government was very much involved, prior to the crises and just after the crises, in damage control. And the banks and financial institutions were all doing the same as well, but were more focused on how do we make profits with this crises.

[-] 1 points by bogusanger7 (83) 12 years ago

Banks use deposits to fund overseas banks and buy investments. This is called....CAPITALISM. So...what is left if overseas banks and investments fail and what happens, if everyone tried to remove all their money out of the banks? This is what the Feds are trying to avoid.

It is called THE RIPPLE EFFECT.

It is all a confidence game. So, now they have to recoup all the so-called finance....that has been pushed into the overseas markets.

Oh, by the way...the Bubble burst because of the fake investments that Wall Street put out there. Your history channel is outmoded and needs to be updated with the TRUTH!

[-] 1 points by mindhawk (175) from Jefferson City, MO 12 years ago

I don't count Dodd-Frank as any action whatsoever.

How do you propose limiting the size of financial institutions?

Why should it be legal to aggregate debt and resell it with dubious ratings to sellers who can't verify anything?

What about goldman-sachs who has demonstrated that they will collapse nations(greece) for their own benefit, which could eventually lead to a war?

My proposals: http://occupywallst.org/forum/my-proposed-demands-1-5of-23/

[-] 1 points by jeremiah757 (9) 12 years ago

Packaging and reselling loans is a perfectly legitimate technique. Think of an auto lender, like Ford Credit. They must securitize last year’s loans in order to fund this year’s car sales. Lenders have varying requirements for rates, terms and risk. That’s what makes the system work. You can’t just outlaw the whole practice.

[-] 1 points by mindhawk (175) from Jefferson City, MO 12 years ago

I would comprimise and say education loans and house loans should be off limits, but fine for everything else. My education and my dream of having my own house are not poker chips someone else should be playing with.

My car, my line of credit, fine. How about that?

[-] 1 points by jeremiah757 (9) 12 years ago

As a borrower, you have little to lose from your loan being resold – crappy service, maybe. Mortgage loans have been packaged for years. Your lender is the one taking a risk, and his lender is taking more risk because he’s buying a bigger debt with less visibility.

[-] 1 points by mindhawk (175) from Jefferson City, MO 12 years ago

Little to lose?...are we living in the same year? The economy just collapsed because of CDO's. I don't want international investors anywhere near my education and house, heck they lost the actual mortgage papers.

Why are you so married to these being an integral part of the economy? What value do they provide to anyone? Is there not enough risk to be gambled on without my education and house?