Forum Post: OWS against conspiracy theorys? Is not everybody here because of a conspiracy theory that Wall st. is greedy?
Posted 12 years ago on Dec. 9, 2011, 1:29 p.m. EST by Infowar
(295)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
A conspiracy theory explains an event as being the result of an alleged plot by a covert group or organization or, more broadly, the idea that important political, social or economic events are the products of secret plots that are largely unknown to the general public.
Conspiracies arent backed up with facts, just inuendo's. OWS is backed by facts. Do your research, and you will find the facts, and find the truth behind OWS.
Wall Street is not just robbing me, or just you. They, by association and cooperation with OUR elected officials, are robbing us all. They hijacked the constitution and perverted it to fit their own needs. When our elected officials can, and do, participate in insider trading, without repercussions and immunity, that in itself is treason. And therefore, they should be impeached. Thats just one issue of many, many more ways they are robbing us.
Isn't the reason conspiracy theories exist because people believe evidence is being withheld. No one can ever say that evidence has never been withheld from the public before. I think conspiracy theories have been plausible in some cases. What is wrong with conspiracy theories and wanting to know the truth? We all should seek the truth. Don't act like we have never been lied to before. I can give examples.
I actually included the definition in the original post, read it above.
What facts? Where do I find these facts? Have you done any research?
I love it when OWS supporters give me facts about history. They pretty much watch a Michael Moore movie and then talk like their experts on the matter. My favorite is getting them to reference native Americans. Since most OWS supporters are hippies they have this romanticized stereotype of Indians essentialy living in this hippie utopia until the white man came and shot them all. It is impossible to convince OWS supporters that white men in North America didn't just get off of boat and start blowing away every red person they saw. I always point out that history shows this did not happen, but me and my sources are always wrong because of some conspiracy to hide the "truth." OWS people always claim to have done their research and have the facts but cannot ever give any specifics.
Two Simple facts for you: 1)MY (Our) tax dollars were used to bailout the very banks that caused this mess. Not the arguement here about the cause. The money was then (point starts here) used for CEO raises, jets, cars etc. It didnt help the economy.
2)The House members are at this very moment able to benifit by insider trading, without reprucession. Can you get away with it? I will keep it short and hit you with 2 points of many? As far as links, I dont have time to do your research...its called google
And those facts prove what? I could say the speed limit on my street is 35MPH and thats a fact. What does that prove? Also your first fact is an assumption of what the bailout was intended for.
Our tax dollars are wasted on so much other crap this is what you guys focus on, stuff that happened three years ago. You guys are always saying tax the corporations and wealthy. Why do you want to give the government more money to blow on stupid crap. The government buys more jets, cars and gives more raises to people than any private organization. You guys are just pissed because somebody else is rich and your not, I'm not rich and I could care less about anybody else earns their money.
yeah, and being a dick gets your point across real well.
when the million bucks came out of my pocket, and all the working class, it pisses me off. You agree tax dollars are wasted, if you work, its your money being wasted. Anyone can take the easy way, hide behind their computer screen and critize those of us that care about this country, and the future of it for their kids. Do you believe in anything other than critizism?
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Thats not true. Conspiracy's are based on facts. Its theory's that are not. Like the Theory of Evolution. No facts to back it up but people think its a fact. It the new religion in reality.
A conspiracy is based on what people believe to be facts. The theory of evalution is backed up by fossil findings, and the natural progression it point(ed) towards.
There are 100's of findings refuting evolution as a backup. The Theory of Evolution is a religion now.
Biologist? Is there a biologist around? We need facts to explain why that poster has been misled.
While I believe in Darwinian Evolution, you might want to read Darwin's Black Box: The Biochemical Challenge to Evolution by Michael J Behe. He makes a very good argument that there are severe flaws to Darwinian Evolution. And provides the facts about the lack of solid proof of natural progression.
I think Behe's disputes also has flaws, and that there probably is something inbetween that is the full truth. But so far science has not developed to the point where we can discover it.
However, OWS is backed by facts. And, as people have said, all you need to do is a simple search to find them.
Aint it crazy, you will be attacked for saying theory of evolution. Also conspiracy theory's are based on facts they just have conclusions that are not accepted in the community. It is just some people call some things conspiracy theory's when in fact they are myths like aliens and Bigfoot.
My only two problems with conspiracies is that their conclusion is often not connected to the problem with any fact, it's pure assumption. Evidence that shows Bush was connected to 9/11 doesn't automatically make it a bombing, and vice versa. Just as a lack of knowledge is not always a cover up.
The second problem is that if a part of the theory is proven incorrect, they use the conclusion as an example of why it is correct. For example, any evidence that shows something was not staged by the CIA, would have been planted by the CIA even if there is no evidence of this. I would almost argue that these days, there are no conspiracy theories. There is just one conspiracy theory that interconnects all conspiracies.
Mind you; the blatant ignoring of Ron Paul from MSM and the censorship in this forum are a bit of a conspiracy.
The media not giving Ron.Paul equal media time fact, Ron.Paul being ignored, to the 99% opinion.
Theory of Evolution is STILL only a theory.... It is not proven, has never been proven & cannot be proven. it will ALWAYS be a theory... it might be construed as religion, but it is a theory non-the-less, else they would have changed it's name.. Hidden in plain site, or what?
All science is a compilation of theories, even the ones mistakenly called laws, like the "law" of gravity. It has rules, though, that religion does not. Given appropriate evidence, a hypothesis, based on a theory, can be disproved. When that happens enough times, the theory is tossed.
Science has proven incredibly useful, which is the reason it is important.
I am a big fan of science. It is the reason we understand anything at all!The hypothesis of evolution construed inaccurate conclusions to make it fit the theory. They can't really be called conclusions, so it falls apart there, i think... Darwin was wrong by his own admission before he died. The finches evolved from one type of finch to another, but they remained finches, he realized. the didn't cross a 'great divide', like from Avian to mammalian... the species stayed the same.. they adapted, but did not evolve..
However, there has been an immense body of evidence collected since 1882. Since I'm not a biologist, I won't try to fill in what all that evidence is, or even recommend a textbook.
Maybe so maybe not if they can honestly fill in the blanks i will accept facts. Also i believe in GOD and would consider myself Christan though most would not.
well, even God would say I am not a christian, but i try. it is not reasonable to think we evolved really, else why are we no longer doing it, & why aren't 'things' just popping into existence ALL the time if that is how we came about? Fossil records indicate the sudden emergence of species, which indicates creation. If they go further back in time, (deeper underground), there are no fossils at all. The only solid 'evidence' comes from God if we believe he is truthful, & really, who would God have to be afraid of that he would lie?, & if we assume that God isn't a liar, then he created us as Gen tells us. If God is a liar, He is not my God, so I have to conclude that God knows what happened better than either Darwin or me. .
Why could God not have created it another way? BTY the bible was not wrote by God. I agree there are bursts of new species but new ones show up all the time. Saying God would be a liar if it worked another way is a bit overboard. God has not told you anything you have just assumed and put words in it's proverbial mouth.
A kindly word of advice.. Don't presume anything about me. You don't know anything about my relationship with God, or about whether I know him to be truthful. It would get ugly.. I am aware of the origins of the Bible, so don't depend on my ignorance to fuel yours... (The word is Written) He says he didn't create it another way. & Well, God WOULD have to be a liar if he did it any other way than that which his inspired writings tells us. To ignore them is ignorant because no higher authority has announced itself!.How do you know that God hasn't told me anything? Just because he doesn't speak to you? get over yourself!.. I believe God when he says he inspired the Bible, & I believe that Jesus told us who God was... Is he human that he would lie? did the Israelites call Moses a liar? No, because they heard God & were terrified. Did Mary have a baby as the angel of God told her she would? Yes, it happened as she was told it would. did God tell Adam he would die if he ate from the tree? yes, & he is dead.. Did He tell Noah the flood would come? He did, & it happened, & Noah saved his family be listening to God. I assume nothing, & God speaks for himself through his word, the Bible. There is no other mouth, proverbial or otherwise..
Ok If you really think people can speak for god then this conversation is over. keyword "inspired by God"
The governments official account of 911 is a conspiracy theory.
What does that mean? they presented it as fact, but they lied, or they lied & presented the truth as a theory?
However you perceive it. Can you give me some facts as to are you in a dream or is this reality.
I could be in a dream, but it wouldn't affect yours, or my reality....It's not my dream,, Your reality is over there where you are. Mine is not, so that is not reality for me... It is relative to location, it seems. Wow, Who Knew?
Yes the tree falls in the forest 101.
Damn you for saying that! LMAO! Get ready...they will be coming! LOL
What's exceptionally interesting is the propoganda machine thta pumps out one single "fact":
Goverment 'conspiracy theory' = TRUTH
Anyone who disagrees with that....is simply a 'conspiracy theorist', and not to be believed.
The intent is clear. Don't have theories, don't even think of disagreeing with the powers that be, or we will label you insane, and, we will ensure that label follows you, and all your words, so that no-one will think to consider the evidence you present, as being naught but the ravings of a madman.
Mundus vult decipi.
All hail the all knowing gobernment!!!!!!!!!!!
con·spir·a·cy/kənˈspirəsē/ Noun:
Pretty clear that is exactly what has been going on.
Definition of THEORY
1 : ++++++the analysis of a set of facts in their relation to one another+++++
2 : abstract thought : speculation 3 : the general or abstract principles of a body of fact, a science, or an art <music theory> 4 a : a belief, policy, or procedure proposed or followed as the basis of action <her method is based on the theory that all children want to learn> b : an ideal or hypothetical set of facts, principles, or circumstances —often used in the phrase in theory
5
: a plausible or scientifically acceptable general principle or body of principles offered to explain phenomena <the wave theory of light>
6
a : a hypothesis assumed for the sake of argument or investigation b : an unproved assumption : conjecture c : a body of theorems presenting a concise systematic view of a subject <theory of equations>
http://fucorporatemedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/wtc-madrid_fires.jpg
I agree.
YEP, ... I have been saying that since day-one here that ALL OWS-BOTS don't even KNOW the definition of conspiracy.
When your discussing something thats based on PUBLIC INFORMATION, its impossible for that to be a conspiracy,
Conspiracy requires secrecy and bankers and OWS leaders working behind the curtain, ... you know shadowy shit..
It's not a theory, it's published and proven fact.
Read what a theory is.
With all respect, sincerely, I 've got to say the following; criminal justice degree, psychology and social work studies (which encompassed demography and use of demographics, social/economic structure of pertinent environment, et cetera) as well as 7+ years as a Special Operations (Army) with a pretty high clearance when I needed to know have all compounded to give me a real education in pragmatic concerns. Knowing what a theory is is elemental. It's basic knowledge, and there is a diference between a theory and a fact.
Yes a fact would be that there were bailouts, a theory would be they did the bailouts to hurt the poor. A fact would be that there are wars, a theory would be that it was done for oil. A fact would be Obama is president, a theory would be he is working with the 1% to hurt the 99%.
Also; let it be known that the facts are readily available, inquiring minds really do want to know just what in the hell's goin' on. The internet is just one tool of many that has been helpful in the awakening of the world. If SOPA goes through, we'll always have a back-up. Migration happens. Count on good commo always happening where it really counts.
Therefore consequent logic dictates that should the escalation of force in the Strait of Hormuz (sic) fall upon the term dates of the Presidents of the nations at risk who can't afford to look weak on the world political stage and must follow through with one anothers implied or specific threats, the insignificant can be used tothe advantage of the elite. This I will NOT do.
wrong person?
I believe so... ; )
Please forgive all the typo's.
When the mainstream media and their backers (trolls) want a fact to be ridiculed and eventually die-out, they describe it as a Conspiracy Theory.
Most people are becoming aware of this fact and will not be lured away from the truth.
We the protestors follow the truth backed by research of known facts. Conspiracy theories have no place within the OWS movement. I've actually taken the time to read their statements and stuff. Please do the same.
SEE? Conspiracy fact because they ARE robbing you!!! Stop censoring! it's called conspiracy theory so you all look the other way for fear of being considered a nut! you are protecting Govt by crapping yourselves & looking away at the very mention of the word 'conspiracy' because your govt has you convinced that you only crazy people listen to theories.. & you shouldn't! if they were harmless theories, govt wouldn't CARE if you knew... Think about it! You can still decide for yourself whether they are true of not.. Draw your own conclusions by finding out what makes sense & what doesn't..
The "secret plots" of which you write (refer) are becoming very common knowledge, thanks to these conversations. We appreciate it. Thank you.
That's what i believe "The "secret plots" of which you write (refer) are becoming very common knowledge, thanks to these conversations". Debate is healthy heck i will admit when i know i am wrong, understanding is what i want. I feel through uncensored debate we can help save / awaken America.
Ditto.
Your first sentence is in itself an oxymoronic sentence in that it states that a theory is able to be an explanation. By definition, a theory stands apart from an explanation by choice as well as by definition.
Just so you know i copied and pasted that definition from wiki.
"Hello, office of redundancy office, to whom am I speaking and what is your name please? How may I direct your call and who would you like to reach?" Ya' know?
In the title or below?
The fact that OBAMA is owned by CORZINE is not a secret, CORZINE paid for the election of OBAMA.
The fact that CORZINE has robbed people is a fact.
The fact that stolen money is/was used to put OBAMA in power is a fact.
These are NOT conspiracy theory's.
No they are not but to the 99% they are. I am on the peoples side i understand fact and am very angry about the current state of affairs.
That corzine stole money?
That Obama is the president? That Corzine was Obama's patron?
Your on the peoples side? What people? 99% of the US public is fed shit on TV 24/7 and don't have a fucking clue what's going on in the world.
Your on the peoples side what people The majority?
People don't even know what to be angry about, that's why the government is blaming OWS, because at his point they're hurting but don't know why.
Here we try to talk about the real problems, like that the US economy has been destroyed, and the US dollar made worthless and we're told to shut-up.
OWS CONSENSUS has an agenda ...
That everything is ok, that we just need to rob the 1% and everything will be fine, the fact that the US economy is terminal the OWS doesn't want the sheep to know, they want the 99% to follow marching orders, to believe that at the end of the day ALL the money from the 1% will be pillaged and shared by all.
There is NO plunder the money has already been wired to off-shore banks.
OWS is just keeping people minds off the real ball.
Corzine stole money i agree. Corzine payed for Obama's election IDK Goldman sacks did contribute but so did others. i was making a linguistic critique i should have been clearer. I was just re reading old debates figured id add.
Corzine & Dimon were the NUMBER 1 contributors of the magic-negro ( OREO ),
New book out about how GoldmanSachs controls the world, I suggest you read the book and learn about why they put OREO in power.
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I would agree, my mission is enlightenment and dialog. This thread is meant to make people realize that calling something a conspiracy theory does not make it untrue.
Actually, mock infowar dude, these are facts to the 99%. Very well known facts indeed. Conspiracy theory bushit be damned, brother. Everyone's going to be effected by the collapse. Everyone.
"They are theory's based on speculation of fact." I am not saying that i don't agree with your theory's though.
They are theory's based on speculation of fact.
911 is key to why OWS happened as it started the wars that destroyed the economy.
Thank you and this is why the subject is topical, yet then why does the OWS-BOTS forbid us to discuss the relationship of 911 and its after effect shock to the world economy??
Because that debate would change the pre-ordained outcome of the debate,
THe consensus has already been decided for you.
Don't cha just love it, follow blindly. Trust is an achievement of ones actions, distrust is a responsibility of ones self-preservation.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/are-we-teaching-sock-puppets/
Sheesh ... quiet when you talk that way...
OWS is controlled by consensus, and if you study closely they never name names just talk generality's like 1% or 99%
There is NO conspiracy its public knowledge that GoldmanSachs runs the USA and owns the OREO-OBAMA, but mention that an the OWS-BOTS come out in force.
The entire OWS-FORUM and OWS for that matter is only a test, to manage the coming societal breakdown.
Who decides what is conspiracy and what is fact? Most of the bots here just say "conspiracy", ... and never back up their counter-argument.
Conspiracy is based on secrecy, most of the stuff folks want to talk about 911, FEDERAL-RESERVE, OBAMA&BUSH ... is NOT conspiracy, its public information, most which is printed by the US government.
The problem is OWS hates many topics, and the OWS BOTS use 'conspiracy' as a codeword to shutdown topics of their discretion.
Conspiracy, get him!!!
I think your real:) and not one of the OWS-BOTS I can swear I read you write something interesting
But then you have said nothing, ... and I did say the bad-words like 911,FR,OB,...
Lol sarcasm, don't cha know!!! We know some things to be true but it will remain conspiracy theory till you pull many heads from asses.
I know your one of the few here that is a real-person, good comp-sci thread now on the main post board on this subject ( OWS BOTS ... ), I can think of least ten monikers here that are turing-test bots,...
keep up the good work,... your giving them hell
"It is the responsibility of every citizen to question authority"
Benjamin Franklin
You should be questioning the authority of the NYCGA.
umm, this isn't theory, it's an outandout fact.
ain't nothin secret about it
greed is good they say, and they are proud of it
“People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices.”
Yes, i agree. Nearly everything in one sense or another can be considered a theory. Further labeling with some derogatory word is perhaps what people do when they can't deal with an issue or wish to control or propagate a certain mindset. As someone else alluded to in another post, instead of facing issues, this label then becomes convenient blow off, not requiring any intelligence or creativity.
These shallow labels are unhealthy as they inhibit effective communication, such as sharing ideas and letting truth come to the surface. Humans like all species need to be able to communicate with each other, and not get bashed or intimidated for sharing our view.
Remember what we were taught as kids in school? that there's no such thing as a bad question. Imagine where we would all be if the great minds of our world didn't ask questions, didn't seek understanding. I somehow doubt any of us would be here speaking today using this forum, to say the least.
It's become apparent anything of significance in our lives is considered a "conspiracy" theory. anything that we the masses wish to know about or discuss gets labeled and marginalized away every time. True freedom of speech or freedom to gain understanding often seems an illusion
Did you notice that when you talk to people and you say conspiracy they look away.
Yeah until they are charged with a conspiracy to commit some crime.
And they will use a conspiracy theory to prosecute him in the court of law.
Yes, I see dumb people they are everywhere and I don't mean just here.
its a simple fucking difference. Ows is not against conspiracy fact. It has every right to try to focus the situation esp in a troll hatten forum, away from the obvious noise creating noise doorways. In trying to moderate signal to noise ratio, the obvious way to do that is to ask for some subjects to not be discussed because they aren't a part of the discussion here and will only spawn mass noise, confusion, bickering, and noise. That does not mean we do not support truth workers, or their truths, It just means that a very limited forum org structure such as this one can't handle the bandwidth and is not the place to make such arguments or stand up for such issues.
Whats so hard to understand?
911 was an inside job. This forum can't handle the noise that goes with the signal in terms of dealing with its bandwidth. The Noise of that one issue alone is more than enough to destroy this movement.
How many other conspiracies do you need me to validate? Fine, Flouride is a toxic poison, Vaccines are being used to give people diseases, Fema camps do exist, the plan is on to kill us all off...
AND...none of that is relevant to what we do here, whats so frigging hard to understand about that?
You want a place that does have the bandwidth and signal and organizational capacity to handle it? I want to give that space to you. I wan these conspiracies to get out to the public and I want the truth to come out. But this place is not able to handle it.
However, the wiki CAN handle it, so WTF why aren't you people on the wiki?
Whats so frigging hard to understand here?
Why do you have to make yourselves into trolls because you can't grok that there are meaningful limits to what a medium can hold for signal to noise ratio, or how to maintain a civil over all conversation?
Stop accidentally playing off sides, STFU about conspiracies on THIS site and Get your ass over to the wiki.
http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Issues_%2B_Political_Platform_Items
OWS.org does not have bandwidth issues that is a lie. Also 911 is key to why OWS happened as it started the wars that destroyed the economy.
excuse me? You don't seem to understand the bandwidth issue as explained. its not a technical bandwidth issue, you moron, its a social bandwidth issue, and it most certainly does have such an issue.
As relevant as it may be, THIS FORUM is not able to hold the social bandwidth, and so anybody trying to get that stuff vented here is shooting the movement in the foot...
Pretty much anybody posting here AT ALL is wasting their time.
This site is designed to waste everyones time. Its designed with no organization its designed with no search feature, its designed to make a giant scrawl mess and waste your free speech time and energy into a giant black pit.
But you are going to fight for your share of a pie thats so small its really nearly impossible to cut into pieces.
Its stupid, your accidentally playing off sides, and you aren't getting back to the wiki where your information could be useful and organized,.
Thank you and this is why the subject is topical, yet then why does the OWS-BOTS forbid us to discuss the relationship of 911 and its after effect shock to the world economy??
Because that debate would change the pre-ordained outcome of the debate,
THe consensus has already been decided for you.
No. Not everyone is here because of a conspiracy theory about Wall Street. I'm not. So even if its only me, you can't say "everyone".
As for Wall Street - there is plenty of evidence to support they committed securties fraud. So there is no need to manufacture conspiracy theories about Wall Street.
But since not everybody accepts that to be true it is a ...
There is plenty of evidence based on Sen Carl Levin's Subcommittee on Permanent Investigations when that subcommittee investigated the causes of the financial crises almost 2 years ago. That subcommittee thought there was enough evidence of crime that it turned over thousands of pages of documentation to the DOJ. Thats pretty strong evidence if you ask me. It is beyond me why the DOJ has not brought charges. Unless... could it be.... corruption of government?
Furthermore, there have been many, many, many, many lawsuits against Wall Street by States Attorneys General and private investor funds for their fraudulant crimes. Google it. You'll see.
Furthermore, the FHFA filed suit against the big banks. I'll provide the reading material for this one because I had it handy!
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-02/barclays-bank-of-america-are-sued-by-fhfa-over-mortgage-backed-securities.html
I am not saying i don't agree that there is a conspiracy between government and wall st to rob you. I also some what agree with that conspiracy theory you used.
It's not a conspiracy theory. Its facts and logic. Just apply logical sense to the facts.
Sen. Levin's evidence is real. It's a fact that his Committee forwarded the evidence to the DOJ. The most logical explanation for this is that there was enough cause to warrant an investigation by the DOJ.
The lawsuits by the FHFA, States Attorneys General and private investor funds are also a fact. The most logical explanation for these lawsuits is that crimes were committed.
You need to learn the English language, words have meaning. Please read some of the debates above and also look up the definition.
You said - Infowar1 points 25 minutes ago I am not saying i don't agree that there is a conspiracy between government and wall st to rob you. I also some what agree with that conspiracy theory you used.
Me says - If you think I am posting conspiracy theories here, you really should report that to the authorities.
Authorities, sorry i don't tattle to big bro.
It's your choice. Don't be sorry.
Rules are rules. No conspiracy theories. Don't consider it tattling. Consider it your civic duty to the OWS forum. : )
But like I said, it's up to you.
[-] fucorporatemedia 1 points 9 minutes ago
con·spir·a·cy/kənˈspirəsē/ Noun:
Pretty clear that is exactly what has been going on. ↥like ↧dislike reply permalink [-] Infowar 2 points 5 minutes ago
Definition of THEORY
1 : ++++++the analysis of a set of facts in their relation to one another+++++
2 : abstract thought : speculation 3 : the general or abstract principles of a body of fact, a science, or an art <music theory> 4 a : a belief, policy, or procedure proposed or followed as the basis of action <her method is based on the theory that all children want to learn> b : an ideal or hypothetical set of facts, principles, or circumstances —often used in the phrase in theory 5 : a plausible or scientifically acceptable general principle or body of principles offered to explain phenomena <the wave theory of light> 6 a : a hypothesis assumed for the sake of argument or investigation b : an unproved assumption : conjecture c : a body of theorems presenting a concise systematic view of a subject <theory of equations>
Thats nice. But I don't know how it is relevant. I suppose you could send this documentation to the authorities for them use in order to determine if my post is a conspiracy theory.
Please, don't consider it tattling. Civic duty! : )
My civic duty is helping people preserve their rights not taking them away.
I like that. And I'll let this be the last word, because I have to run for now. Plus, I think we'll be out of reply options!
Its not a conspiracy its simply fraud and greed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mkRFCtl2MI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EewGMBOB4Gg
http://thezeitgeistmovement.com/
http://blog.thezeitgeistmovement.com/
http://www.thevenusproject.com/