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Forum Post: "Occupy the Truth : Challenging the Media's Premature Post-Mortem on Occupy", by Truth-Out.org.

Posted 3 years ago on Sept. 23, 2012, 2:46 p.m. EST by shadz66 (19985)
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"Occupy the Truth : Challenging the Media's Premature Post-Mortem on Occupy",

by Michael I. Niman

Wearing an Occupy t-shirt in the summer of 2012 seemed old school - like wearing a Grateful Dead tie-dye. Occupy is so 51 weeks ago.

But where did that meme come from? Occupy hadn't yet hit its first birthday before we were asked to believe that the most transformational American progressive political movement of the 21st century had died of old age.

This past Monday, the Occupy movement celebrated its first birthday. What began with a fringe band of demonstrators in lower Manhattan quickly spread its glowing embers across the planet, forcing a global conversation about social inequality. Now, just one year later, the corporate media has banded together to declare the whole movement over, down the memory hole.

The media always held the Occupy movement to high standards, demanding nothing short of revolution, then calling the movement a failure when it failed to transform society in its first few months. But the pundits could only envision their own notion of revolution—replacing one set of leaders with another, all within the confines of our two-party system. Occupy, however, never aspired to being an electoral party or player, like the Tea Party, which, once organized, was co-opted by corporate interests in a matter of minutes. Occupy instead wanted to transform the debate—to shift the zeitgeist. To a punditocracy reduced to quantifying electoral battles as horse races, reporting on electoral tactics rather than substance, Occupy made no sense.

Months went by and the Occupy movement didn't yield its diverse voices to leaders, didn't endorse liberal Democrats who would use them and sell them out, didn't elect anyone to office. Measuring the only pulse the pundits knew how to take, they declared the movement dead. Yet almost everyone in public life today, a mere year later, speaks of the 99 percent, tries to speak to the 99 percent, or feebly feigns to be one of the 99 percent, as Ann Romney did when suggesting that her husband Willard formed Bain Capital while sitting with a bunch of buddies around their kitchen table, which I suppose we are to believe was a door propped up on milk crates. (The buddies, it turns out, were Salvadoran oligarchs tied to that nation's death squads.)

Thanks to the Occupy movement, the American mainstream is doing something it hasn't done in decades—discussing the taboo topic of social class in America. Yes, there is a class war. It's been raging ever since Ronald Reagan was elected, ushering in three decades of spiraling economic inequality and a historically unprecedented upward grab of the nation's wealth. The Occupy movement mainstreamed the conversation about this war. Now politicians must at least pretend to pander to the interests of the 99 percent. That's revolutionary—at least for a one-year-old. By contrast, it took the women's suffrage movement 72 years—from its first convention in Seneca Falls, until the passage of the 19th Amendment in 1920—to secure women the right to vote, and we're still waiting for our first woman president. I'm sure pundits ridiculed that movement and declared it dead at many junctures during its persistent struggle.

The clearest example of this hopeful but premature obituary for the Occupy movement comes from the Associated Press, the cooperative of corporate news organizations whose canned articles appear verbatim in hundreds of major newspapers around the world. The AP's piece, published on the first anniversary of the first Occupy demonstration on Wall Street, reads as if it was authored by someone who had never encountered the movement. It's headline,"1 year after encampment began, Occupy in disarray," misses the point. Occupy was always in disarray, which generally is defined as "lacking order or sequence." That is Occupy's tactic. It's what makes Occupy powerful and inclusive. When your movement represents 99 percent of the population, it will never be of one mind, nor will it be neat or orderly. Democracy was never meant to be orderly. Hence, Occupy crowd-sourced and condensed a broad set of goals and values, but few specific demands.

The author of the AP piece, Meghan Barr, writes that Occupy Wall Street meetings broke down because "Nobody could agree on anything and nobody was in charge." She's accurate in that nobody was in charge, and consensus, given the large size of the assemblies, was often elusive. But she's ignorant of the Occupy movement's goals and values if she truly believes this is why the movement, as she argues, "disintegrated." To the contrary, it's because of this intellectual inclusiveness that the movement grew so fast. Everyone was welcome at the table, but not everyone would agree with everyone else about all issues.

But where there is agreement, there's incredible power. We see this power in the fact that issues of social inequality, discussion of the one percent versus the 99 percent, are now everywhere. In contrast, Barr writes that "the movement is now a shadow of its mighty infancy, when a group of young people harnessed the power of a disillusioned nation and took to the streets chanting about corporate greed and inequality." Today we don't have to chant in the streets because Occupy hijacked the conversation. Today, even Republican candidates often couch their lies in the lingo of the movement.

The media liked the Occupy movement when it maintained camps, providing visual spectacle available anytime during slow moments in a 24-hour news cycle. The camps got the movement off the ground and gave it the media presence needed to launch its memes and spread globally. The post-camp Occupy movement is proving a bit too cerebral for a media machine that prefers shiny objects and flashing lights to substance. The subsequent phase of the Occupy movement has so far included teach-ins at libraries and universities, saving homes from foreclosure, helping workers successfully unionize, lobbying governments to divest fom criminal banks, creating homeless shelters, and evicting predatory lenders from college campuses. An Occupy group in California created a community farm. In New York, Occupy groups played a large role in pressuring the governor to extend the "millionaire's tax." Occupy groups pressured corporations to stop funding the American Legislative Exchange Council, which authored reactionary legislation sponsored by pro-corporate politicians in statehouses around the country.

These are all measurable activities or victories organized or won by disparate local Occupy groups. Occupy activists are now organizing student debt actions and voter registration drives. There are countless stories—and all of this, along with the entire camp phase of the movement, has transpired in just one year. During this time, a large plurality of Americans started to list the disparity between the rich and the poor as one of the nation's most pressing issues.

This is a fantastic track record for a one-year-old movement. And it is very threatening to the entrenched corporate interests who want us to believe that this movement is over - or better yet, that it never happened.

~

per aspera ad astra ...

~

Dr. Michael I. Niman is a professor of journalism and media studies at Buffalo State College. His previous columns are at artvoice.com, archived at www.mediastudy.com, and available globally through syndication.

[Article copied verbatim under "Fair Use" from : http://truth-out.org/news/item/11714-occupy-the-truth-challenging-the-medias-premature-post-mortem-on-occupy ]

151 Comments

151 Comments


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[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (22422) 8 months ago

Still holds true today. The legacy of Occupy is yet to be fully known but we can see the seeds of change beginning to grow. Flip made a nice list in his recent comment and I quote him:

[-] 2 points by flip (7101) 5 hours ago

"hey beauty - glad to see you are still at it! keep it up. just stopped in to the site to see what is going on - looks like same old - no? hope you are well - i am busy - as usual. lots of victories seems to me.large and small - corbyn in uk - the pope! the mayors in spain - the greek elections and south america as always near the forefront of changing the world. bernie making hillary nervous and to top it off we have trump spouting single payer, campaign finance reform and ending outsourcing through tariffs!! who would have thunk it"

Thanks for this great post and for all you've done here on the forum for the past 4 years!

[-] 5 points by ImNotMe (1488) 3 months ago

Consider:''The elites use money, along with their control of the media, the courts and legislatures, their armies of lobbyists and “think tanks,” to invalidate the vote. We have undergone, as John Ralston Saul has written, a corporate coup d’état. There are now no institutions left within our civil society that could be accurately described as democratic. We do not even live in a capitalist democracy. We live in what the political philosopher Sheldon Wolin calls a system of “inverted totalitarianism.” = perhaps the most revealing paragraph, in this polemical, rather harsh & definitely hard hitting article, by Chris Hedges fyi:

ecce homo ...

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (22422) 3 months ago

Chris Hedges piece is trenchant, I agree, and deserving of a response.

What he is calling for in that essay is a bloody revolution with violence, and death, the only viable means to the purist end he has in mind. He said it himself, "There is no liberal—much less left or progressive—organized political class in the United States." That being true, the only means to his end would be a blood bath brought about by a few leftist revolutionaries with the same purist views he holds who push those very views upon everyone else via force.

The truth is, however, that America can move to the left in a peaceful way and Bernie Sanders is proof of that as he educates the masses and changes the mindset and zeitgeist of the nation. And while that might not bring the immediate gratification Hedges and others are looking for, it might just benefit millions of people in the short and long runs, and it may, hopefully, bring the larger, more complete revolution in due time, but without the blood and lost lives, and with more consensus from the onset.

[-] 3 points by Viking (338) 3 months ago

I read Hedges' very sobering article yesterday. I hope that you are right, bw.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22422) 3 months ago

I think even if I'm wrong we have a moral obligation to let this thing play out peacefully for now. It is the right thing to do for our children and grandchildren to try and effectuate the most change possible in the most peaceful way possible with the most consensus possible to benefit as many people as possible.

History will play out as the evolving facts dictate and only time will tell what the real outcomes will be and if America can rise to the challenge. But, for now, I personally, am Feelin' The Bern. I'm in for whatever change Bernie Sanders can bring and we'll take it from there. Win or lose, he will make progress in changing the zeitgeist and ethos of the people, and for that, I'll be grateful, no matter what.

[-] 1 points by Viking (338) 3 months ago

I agree that we have to pursue our struggle in a peaceful way, while maintaining and expanding our recalcitrance to the corrupt status quo. Because of the very fact that so many people have been screwed, that has resulted in a broad, and growing coalition that has joined us in fighting the corrupt status quo.

Ms Goldfield, an intelligent young, creative activist is an excellent example of a dedicated person who is doing a super job at reaching out to her peers, especially. I do get a kick out of her tell it like it is attitude, and her willingness to drop the f-bomb (if the occasion warrants it) on her 1/2 hour weekly show.

http://www.occupy.com/article/act-out-50-brains-not-vaginas-questioning-plastic-jesus-and-be-mine%E2%80%99s-not-pipelines

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22422) 3 months ago

I'm actually really grateful for Hedges' piece and for the discussions with you and turbo. These are strange times and I've had my own personal conflictions about this election, but I have truly come to peace with my decision to support Sanders in full force.

Nothing is ever perfect and no candidate is ever perfect. If you look at young people, they are becoming more and more aware of the issues and more and more involved and this is really about them. They want change.

Thanks for the video. When she and Plastic Jesus spoke of the need to get people to think for themselves, I think that is the main point. If we can remove all the propaganda and main stream influence and poor education from the American mind, we might actually get somewhere. Because, in the end, we do want people to think for themselves.

I think Bernie Sanders has been a great messenger, and whether he wins or loses, and whether or not the Democratic Party co-opts his platform or not, it's a victory, because more and more people will have become aware of a. the issues and b. the fact that we can do something about them.

I'm curious what you think in terms of moving forward? How do you think leftist Americans should proceed? How do we get the bulk of America to move to the left when most of them don't have any clue what it means to be "progressive" much less leftist.

[-] 5 points by Viking (338) 3 months ago

Thanks bw, I enjoy the conversations with all of you guys and gals too. I'm no soothsayer, and have not been a revolutionary for all that long ;), so I do not have the answers. I do have oodles of respect for Jill Stein and Hedges tho... , and agree with most of what they have to say. How it is all going to play out, I just don't know. Hopefully though as the number of discontented people swell, the corrupt system will capitulate begrudgingly yet peacefully.

I don't want to be a downer, but I cannot support another Democrat for President again. 2008 was the last time for me. I do think, amongst other things that Sanders' candidacy, and the establishment's obvious goal to ignore and disparage him is playing a vital part in exposing how corrupt our political system is.

I do realize that no candidate for any political office will be a perfect fit, but I cannot overlook some of the incongruities in Sander's stances, on the MIC in particular, and his professed support of Hillary if he loses. There's more too.. but please I do not want to get into a running discussion about that..

I don't know where Sanders candidacy is leading. My guess is; He loses and people having to choose yet another lesser evil, maybe with a still unconfirmed Supreme Court opening (Scalia's) added to the mix of probable still to retire justices, and reasons why we should vote for Hillary. And I think we can expect big money to get behind Hillary too 'cause Trump is too much of a loose cannon.

I Love and agree with most of the things Sanders says, especially concerning the corrupt political system, and the wealth disparity. And I don't like being so cynical. Eight years of Obama's lies will do that. Gee Sanders was my Congressman in Vermont and I voted for him! And if Sanders gets disgusted, and decides to run for President as an Independent, I will overlook our differences, and be one of the first to send a campaign contribution to him!!

Lastly, I do not view the situation that we are in as a left vs right one (that's the old paradigm which just causes people to dig their heels in), but rather I see it as a right vs wrong one. I'm not playing semantics either. We have many commonalities with people who view themselves being on the right, and we are going to need those people, so we should nurture them and reach out to them with logic, and an appeal to their humanity. That to a big degree is just the opposite of what politicians have been doing, in appealing to the most base instincts in human nature. ie. Donald Trump.

I unapologetically view myself as a Socialist though, the main reason being, we have to pursue another economic system that does not require unlimited growth, hence unlimited resources on a finite planet that is suffering greatly already from Capitalism.

That amiability will not always be the scenario that we want to pursue, as a much more belligerent course of action will be needed and will undoubtedly surface especially from people who have been victimized the most. Maybe something will set that off, or just the cumulative injustices, and people linking them to the bigger picture. I Thank Sanders for bringing many of those to light.

Anyway when we reach that point, we'll have to fasten our seatbelts!

Solidarity to you, and all the good posters here.

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (22422) 3 months ago

"I do not view the situation that we are in as a left vs right one (that's the old paradigm which just causes people to dig their heels in), but rather I see it as a right vs wrong one."

I absolutely agree with you and especially the above quote which is really pretty brilliant!

I believe that the number one thing we need to do is take down the oligarchs and I believe this is the one thing that the 99% can galvanize around together. Not just the poor, not just labor, not just the middle class, not just leftists, not just progressives, but freaking all of us. The oligarchs have to go if we are going to save ourselves and our planet.

I also think Bernie Sanders should be commended, and thanked (as you say) for how he is reaching out to all people and educating them on these issues that are so important to our future. He may even be indirectly laying the groundwork for a successful third party to emerge in the very near future.

Think about Plato's "The allegory of the Cave." It says that education consists in directing a student's mind toward what is real and important and allowing the student to apprehend it for themselves.

Bernie is doing just that, he's saying it like it is. And, once a person sees the "light" there's no going back, right?

So, Bernie Sanders is in effect creating a groundswell of people who, hopefully, will become dedicated to fixing the problems they have learned about and can now never forget.

And, hopefully we can avoid the belligerent course of action that seems inevitable and we can make change peacefully.

[-] 3 points by Viking (338) 3 months ago

Agreed, "The oligarchs have to go if we are going to save ourselves and our planet.[!!]" Bernie is doing a super job in educating people and in forwarding our struggle. We have to realize though that the people who we need to reach out to are most often not the enemy, but rather the people who need to be reeducated and given a nudge in the hopes that they can be brought back into rational thinking.

Losing our combativeness, and not continuing or creating new political fissures is one of the main keys to our success, I think. As you suggest in your analogy, and evident in how Sanders conducts himself, when we present people with the facts, then give them the time and latitude of coming to their own conclusion, I think we will be surprised for the better.

[-] 1 points by grapes (4376) 3 months ago

We want to save the oligarchs, too. There is just so much latent heat that can be absorbed by the body politic before a phase change becomes inevitable. What had happened to the Czar and his family during the Russian Revolution should be a reminder to the oligarchs.

I feel truly sad for the Russian people and their Czar and family. It seems that they kept on going through these massive sufferings again and again. I wonder if it is because they have their own alphabets so they are very much disconnected from the rest of Europe culturally, a bit like the Japanese in Asia.

[-] -2 points by fionachuckles (-375) from Fairview, NJ 3 months ago

People aren't joining the left precisely because the left is confused on how to proceed. That was the main problem with OWS. Many people agreed and joined the protest for what is was complaining about, but then everyone realized they did not agree on how to proceed about fixing things, so it petered out. Black bloc wanted to do civil disobedience, the anarchists also, democrats wanted to still play politics, etc...

Nobody is confused about what the problems are. That is very clear, and that is why OWS was able to reunite so many people so quickly.

What people disagree on is how to solve those problems.

The progressive left will garner lots of attention when it is clearer on how it proposes to solve our modern problems.

[-] 2 points by ImNotMe (1488) 2 months ago

Once again ... ''The truth is, however, that America can move to the left - in a peaceful way and Bernie Sanders is the proof of that as he educates the masses and changes the mindset and zeitgeist of the nation. And while that might not bring the immediate gratification Hedges and others are looking for, it might just benefit millions of people in the short and long runs .. and it may, hopefully, bring the larger, more complete revolution in due time .. but without the blood and lost lives, and with more consensus from the onset.'' - to repeat your important point and thus in compliment, I append the following links...

multum in parvo ...

[-] 2 points by grapes (4376) 3 months ago

Changes will still come at a glacial pace but "glacial" may never connotate "slow" again as the temperature rises. Antarctica Spring is coming, inevitably.

To my people (die Amerikanern), I offer a nursery rhyme:

 Geh mir nicht voran,
      ich könnte dir nicht folgen.
 Geh mir nicht hinter,
      ich könnte dir nicht leiten.
 Geh nur an meiner Seite,
      Und sei mein Freund.

Translated:

 Don't go ahead of me,
      I could not follow you.
 Don't go behind me,
      I could not lead you.
 Just go at my side,
      And be my friend.

Let's see how Bernie Sanders work out before restoring another degree of freedom to the equations.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (22422) 3 months ago

Sweet poem. There are truths there especially when making monumental change. It is essential that the people are on board, in consensus, for the change and not resisting the change. We'll have to wait and see what happens. Interesting times, surely.

[-] 1 points by grapes (4376) 3 months ago

No monumental change happens without some blood or lost lives, as history often attests. However, there is always a minimum to be sought for, by any good servant of my people.

Election is the built-in mechanism for change instituted by our Founding Fathers. If it works, it may well be nearly bloodless with minimal lives lost. I have concerns about the integrity of the process but if my people can live with "a managed state," so can I.

[-] 2 points by ImNotMe (1488) 6 months ago

''Thanks to the Occupy Movement, the American mainstream is doing something it hasn't done in decades - discussing the taboo topic of social class in America. Yes, there is a class war. It's been raging ever since Ronald Reagan was elected, ushering in three decades of spiraling economic inequality and a historically unprecedented upward grab of the nation's wealth. The Occupy movement mainstreamed the conversation about this war. Now politicians must at least pretend to pander to the interests of the 99 percent. That's revolutionary- at least for a one-year-old. By contrast, it took the women's suffrage movement 72 years - from its first convention in Seneca Falls, until the passage of the 19th Amendment in 1920 - to secure women the right to vote, and we're still waiting for our first woman president. I'm sure pundits ridiculed that movement and declared it dead at many junctures during its persistent struggle.'' [From the OP] Now re. Bernie Sanders, please consider this by Thom Hartmann ..

''Thom discusses the freak out by corporate Democrats over Bernie Sanders with attorney and radio host Mike Papantonio, what socialism is with Socialist Seattle City Council member Kshama Sawant, Kentucky’s great success with Obamacare with former health insurance executive Wendell Potter, and how the Koch brothers are “investing” in our nation’s colleges with student activist Duncan Gilchrist. And Thom ends the show discussing the text of the TPP and what it will mean for working Americans.'' re. ...

Solidarity to u bw & to posters past, present & procrastinating! An interesting 12 months awaits ahead. Thom Hartmann's ''The Big Picture'' show on RT, is really essential viewing these days. I recommend it.

respice; adspice; prospice ...

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (22422) 6 months ago

"Fear the Bern" LOL. That's what corporate Democrats are doing. Sure are! Corporate Republicans too, I'd say.

Bernie Sanders has understood the affects of weakened worker rights', low wages, high housing prices, high education costs, increasing inequality, etc. for decades. They will NOT be able to get him off topic because he is authentic and speaks truths to power in a way that no one else can.

"UnKochMyCampus.org" Speaks for itself. Great stuff from young people!

Then, Kshama Sawant, self-declared socialist proves that "socialist politics are here to stay" as she is re-elected. She says "Socialism to me means a global society that offers a really high standard of living for all human beings in an environmentally sustainable manner." She also says that Bernie Sanders is looking to bring things to the U.S. that other countries have had for decades. Right. We're way behind here. She thinks that the 99% must own the resources to bring about this change, not have all the wealth in the hands of the 1% because change of this kind will not work under a capitalistic system that has a billionaire class. She says people are completely disgusted with the way things are and are seeking political change.

Also, a segment on the ills of our food supply.

And, Thom Hartmann's discussion on how the TPP is the surrender of our sovereignty is brilliant. It's at the 45 minute mark of the video. Very interesting.

"We used to just trade with other nations so that we all had wool and cheese." And...now...it's not just for the goods, it's for the financialization of the goods and the wealth it creates for the banks, corporations and oligarchs. Big difference. He's got a chart that is just brilliant. This is a must watch episode!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-S-dpgZBmY

What a great episode of Thom Hartmann's "The Big Picture"! Wow and thanks.

[-] 4 points by ImNotMe (1488) 6 months ago

Thom Hartmann has been a pro-99%, progressive voice in The USA for longer than most and his show ''The Big Picture'' - deserves a much wider audience but Corporate MSM won't countenance giving him air-time. Still he ploughs on and all Left / Liberal / Progressive - types should amplify him & people like Kshama Sawant - at every opportunity. You're very right bw''This is a must watch episode'', so I repeat:

Thanx for your excellent synopsis & summation of my initial links & your focus on TPP, ergo link above.

This is an expanded trailer for a now difficult to find doc. and I strongly recommend it to any and all here.

per aspera ad astra ...

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (22422) 6 months ago

Bernie Sanders won the debate last night, hands down.

And, per your reply, Hillary Clinton dodged the fact that she is embedded with Wall Street and corporations by saying that she's friendly with Wall Street because she was there on 9/11 and that's why they contribute to her. They "know her" and all the good work she did for them. Pathetic. Right, Hillary, so take their money and be against reinstating Glass Steagall. Don't break up the banks. Bug off Lady Hawk.

But, Bernie hit back harder than he has in the past.

Here's Robert Reich on why Hillary is wrong about not reinstating Glass Steagall.

http://robertreich.org/post/124114229225

[-] 3 points by ImNotMe (1488) 6 months ago

"Lady Hawk" (lol!) HRC is a Neoliberal when it comes to domestic and trans-national pro-Corporate, pro-Banker policies AND .. a Neocon - when it comes to Foreign Policy ... NO IFS OR BUTS! Robert Reich knows her personally and he has got her right. Any here, there or any-fkn-where who still think that this Venal Wannabe Millionaire Haridan - has any 99% interests in her heart for anything other than her own, selfish electoral reasons - is totally unaware of what she stands for, and/or is a DNC-hack or is a totally incorrigible parDisan Dem-addict! So .. ''she's friendly with Wall Street because she was there on 9/11'' huh?! WTF does thAt mean?!! Also fyi, consider this short video:

From your great RR link, I excerpt and abridge this --- ''Hillary Clinton won’t propose reinstating a bank break-up law known as the Glass-Steagall Act – at least according to Alan Blinder, an economist who has been advising Clinton’s campaign. “You’re not going to see Glass-Steagall,” Blinder said after her economic speech Monday in which she failed to mention it. Blinder said he had spoken to Clinton directly about Glass-Steagall.

''This is a big mistake.

''It’s a mistake politically because people who believe Hillary Clinton is still too close to Wall Street will not be reassured by her position on Glass-Steagall. Many will recall that her husband led the way to repealing Glass Steagall in 1999 at the request of the big Wall Street banks.

''It’s a big mistake economically because the repeal of Glass-Steagall led directly to the 2008 Wall Street crash, and without it we’re in danger of another one.

''To this day some Wall Street apologists argue Glass-Steagall wouldn’t have prevented the 2008 crisis because the real culprits were nonbanks like Lehman Brothers and Bear Stearns.

''Baloney. These nonbanks got their funding from the big banks in the form of lines of credit, mortgages, and repurchase agreements. If the big banks hadn’t provided them the money, the nonbanks wouldn’t have got into trouble.

''And why were the banks able to give them easy credit on bad collateral? Because Glass-Steagall was gone.''

''As George Santayana famously quipped, those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. In the roaring 2000’s, just as in the Roaring Twenties, America’s big banks used insured deposits to underwrite their gambling in private securities, and then dump the securities on their customers.

''It ended badly.

''This is precisely what the Glass-Steagall Act was designed to prevent – and did prevent for more than six decades. ... Hillary Clinton, of all people, should remember.''

~

A friend told me about Bernie's performance in the Dem-debate (11/14/15) and said he was outstanding.

ad iudicium et spero meliora ...

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22422) 6 months ago

And, it's Fight for $15, not $12, Hillary, affectionately known as Lady Hawk who is embedded with the Wall Street banks.

[-] 3 points by ImNotMe (1488) 6 months ago

I just can't muster any affection for HRC but I'm happy to call the RWNJ ''Lady Hawk'' tho' any emphasis should be on ''Hawk''! How fkn dare she declare herself for a $12/hour minimum wage? Consider has her millionaire-wannabe self - ever contemplated living on $12/hr?! Just whoTF is she speaking for when she speaks against $15/hr?!! Her Corporate & Wall Street friends / fiends .. THAT'S who!!! Also fyi, consider:

The same friend who said BS was good in Dem-Debate said that HRC was crap and crass re.the above.

fiat justitia ....

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (22422) 6 months ago

"Hillary: Wall Street Supports Me Because of 9/11"

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/11/14/hillary-says-wall-street-supports-her-because-of-9-11.html

"Hillary Clinton invoked 9/11 to defend her ties to Wall Street. What?"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/11/15/hillary-clinton-invoked-911-to-defend-her-ties-to-wall-street-what/

"Will Hillary's 'clumsy' 9/11 remark come back to haunt her?"

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/11/16/will-hillarys-clumsy-911-remark-come-back-to-haunt-her.html

Thanks for your honesty, Hillary. We know you love Wall Street.

Bernie Sanders for President. Donate at www.berniesanders.com

[-] 3 points by ImNotMe (1488) 6 months ago

Bernie ''Not As Socialist as Dwight. D. Eisenhower'' and lol - at the (paradoxical) true-ishness of that!

And as Dan Malloy points out on the fade out - marginal tax rates on hyper-wealthy were 70% under Raygun, so just WTF is ''Wall Street's Best Friend'' Hitlary Clinton warbling about?! HRC is the FIRE {Finance, Insurance & Real Estate} candidate, and it will be a Fire Sale of All American Assets [incl. death for The US PO!] - IF that RWNJ, Neocon-pin-up becomes POTUS! But don't tell frf that, lololol! Sorry btw, but I couldn't bring myself to look at any of your links but also hope, u won't do the same!

Just wtf about the word ''Socialist'' is it, that makes so many Americans brain-freeze &/or brain-fart?!!! Have they been 'Mind Managed' so much that US Turkeys Will Always Be Voting For Thanksgiving?!!!

spero meliora...

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (22422) 6 months ago

Bernie Explains Democratic Socialism:

"The Most Important Moments From Bernie Sanders' Speech Defending Democratic Socialism"

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/11/bernie-sanders-socialism-speech-georgetown

"In a speech at Georgetown University on Thursday afternoon, Sen. Bernie Sanders, the independent from Vermont who's seeking the Democratic presidential nomination, did something unprecedented for a major candidate: He made the case for democratic socialism."

Bernie is deconstructing the words "democratic socialist." He's just what we need right now, someone authentic and honest to break it down and educate the masses. Now we just need the kids to vote.

And, as for Hillary, well, not my favorite source, but:

http://nypost.com/2015/11/17/hillary-will-take-on-wealthy-special-interests-but-not-before-taking-their-cash/

She's same old, same old. The FIRE candidate, LOL. Finance, Insurance and Real Estate!

[-] 5 points by ImNotMe (1488) 6 months ago

''Almost everything [Roosevelt] proposed was called "socialist." I thought I would mention that just in passing. Social Security, which transformed life for the elderly in this country, was defined by his opponents as "socialist." The concept of the "minimum wage"—that workers had to be paid at least a certain amount of money for their labor—was seen as a radical intrusion into the marketplace and was described as "socialist." Unemployment insurance (the idea that if you lose your job at least you have something to fall back), abolishing child labor, the 40-hour work week, collective bargaining (the rights of workers to engage in negotiations with a union), strong banking regulations, deposit insurance, and job programs that put millions of people to work were all described, in one way or another, as "socialist." Yet as you all know, all of these programs and many more have become the fabric of our nation and in fact the foundation of our middle class.

''Thirty years later after Roosevelt's speech, in the 1960s, President Lyndon Johnson fought for Medicare and Medicaid to provide health care to millions of senior citizens and families with children, persons with disabilities and some of the most vulnerable people in this country. Today Medicare does not seem to be such a terribly radical idea, to say that once they get old they should have medical insurance, but when it was proposed once again we heard right-wing forces describe these programs as socialistic and a threat to our American way of life.'' + ...

''Let me define for you, simply and straightforwardly, what democratic socialism means to me. It builds on what Franklin Delano Roosevelt said when he fought for guaranteed economic rights for all Americans. And it builds on what Martin Luther King Jr. said in 1968, when he stated that, "This country has socialism for the rich, and rugged individualism for the poor." It builds on the success of many other countries around the world that have done a far better job than we have in protecting the needs of their working families, the elderly, the children, the sick, and the poor.''

The above is excerpted from your http://www.motherjones.com/ link & in compliment, please consider..

''Our job is to simply bring to fruition what the overwhelming majority of the American people want. They want an economy that works for the middle class and working families and not just for the rich. They want everybody in this country to have health care as a right. They want to protect Social Security, Medicare & Medicaid. They want to move away from these gross inequalities in income & wealth.'' from:

Sorry again but I still can not bring myself to read anything about The FIRE-Queen - Lady Hawk, HRC!

per ardua ad astra ...

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22422) 5 months ago

Social Security, Medicare, Unemployment Insurance and basic labor laws all protect the 99% from further exploitation by the greedy assholes who take every opportunity to enrich themselves. Yes, Bernie, right, those are all socialist programs.

Great excerpts from a great speech. Here's another link to it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbUN9UwoBX0

Bernie says "We need to develop a political movement which once again is prepared to take on and defeat a ruling class whose greed is destroying our nation."

[-] 0 points by ImNotMe (1488) 4 months ago

''Let us not be afraid to help each other - let us never forget that government is ourselves and not an alien power over us. The ultimate rulers of our democracy .. are not a president or senators or congressmen and government officials but the voters of this country''[FDR Marietta,Ohio, 7/8/1938]

''Noam Chomsky explains why Bernie Sanders is the only choice for President .. and how Hillary Clinton is just another part of the establishment to keep Americans down. Calls Republicans "off the chart Right wing" and explains how all politics in the USA have shifted to the right. '' & also fyi, please consider this:

I do not quite agree with how that video is titled - but Ms. Warren says some very revealing things there!

fiat lux ...

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22422) 4 months ago

Very moving clip of Bernie Sanders on Jimmy Kimmel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-q4AQ2O9EE8

Thanks to Thom Hartman who tweeted it out. A must watch! It's only 2 minutes but it says SO MUCH.

[-] 2 points by ImNotMe (1488) 4 months ago

That li'l Bernie Sanders video above, via Thom Hartman's Tweet - really is second to none and all who post, read and/or visit this site should really try to avail themselves of it. Also in compliment and fyi...

fiat lux ...

[-] 3 points by turbocharger (1756) 6 months ago

That was about vomit worthy, wasn't it?

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22422) 6 months ago

Yes. "Vomit worthy." Great way to put it.

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (3867) 6 months ago

he hasn't face the war

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (3867) 6 months ago

elections are rigged before the people get to the poles

write in NO WAR

[-] 2 points by grapes (4376) 6 months ago

Reinstating Glass Steagall and breaking up the banks are needed to right the Titanic déjà vu which is, which was, and which is to come. Bug off, Mx. Cheese, the yeast-infested Peacekeeper launcher.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22422) 6 months ago

"The business model of Wall Street is fraud" - Bernie Sanders

He couldn't be more correct and of course, reinstating Glass Steagall is the right thing to do for the masses of people who live in this country and exactly WHY Clinton and Wall Street don't want to do it. They love hoarding money for themselves. Greed. Her hand is in the pot and she should just admit it.

[-] 2 points by grapes (4376) 6 months ago

"The business model of our government is waste." "The linkage business model of Slick Willie and Mx. Cheese is abuse." There we have the trifecta for the rathole, waiting for Superhero Chucky Cheese.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (22422) 6 months ago

"The business model of Wall Street is fraud." I think Bernie has that right.

And, yes, the government has some waste. It's a waste, for instance, to spend so much money on wars. The people, generally who claim that the government is too big are exactly those who support the Military Industrial Complex. The War on Drugs was a waste too and we spend loads of money imprisoning more people than most countries on earth put together. Again, people are getting rich off of the "big government."

[-] 1 points by grapes (4376) 6 months ago

The government is too big when its left hand does not know what its right hand holds (No Such Agency knew about the imminent 9/11/2001 attack but the Feral Burro of Incontinence could not find the douche-bag. Overseas' limbs braced for a stab but not the body. Then came the bloodbaths for many inflicted by the raging mega-wiener but even Viagra/Cialis wears off eventually). We are cursed if we keep on electing leaders who "think" within their ball sacs, without their brain sacs.

[Removed]

[-] 5 points by elf3 (3624) 3 years ago

This movement is alive and well - we just don't serve the agenda so we're being silenced and told to go away ... we're out here - and we're not all at the protests but share the sentiments and once you wake to this you can't go to sleep again - that's a problem they won't be able to contend with - they are just hoping we don't wake the giant

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 3 years ago

There is increasingly a new politics afoot in America ; a politics that challenges the lie of austerity and the lie that says unlimited military spending is necessary. As Americans and their allies from around the world rally, march and vote to put human needs ahead of corporate greed and the "Military-Industrial Complex" about which President Eisenhower warned :

There are groups that understand that the next politics requires an inside-outside strategy that challenges the lie of austerity and the lies that lead to wars of whim. Those challenges must play out inside existing political parties - and outside them ; in the corridors of power and 'mos def' in the streets.

Together We Are Stronger - SOLIDARITY !!!

pax, amor et lux ...

[-] 2 points by ImNotMe (1488) 2 months ago

Yep,'' This movement is alive and well" & truly - ''once you wake to this you can't go to sleep again''!

Solidarity ...

[-] 2 points by ImNotMe (1488) 2 months ago

Yep, ''once you wake to this you can't go to sleep again'' ...

solidarity ...

[-] 4 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 3 years ago

Great and inspiring post/article shadz. Thx for providing it.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 3 years ago

You're more than welcome 'Ud' and further :

From the second article : "Few people question current arrangements for money issue, but allowing privately owned banks to create money is like putting a three year old in charge of a sweet shop."

ad iudicum ...

[-] 4 points by forourfutures (393) 2 years ago

History is far more deeply represented from about 1500 back. And what is missing is what causes all of the other events that are misrepresented later a d prevent apprehension of what new events might be created that are against the species interest.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Re. ''what is missing is what causes all of the other events that are misrepresented later'', thanx for your interesting comment and thus please see the rather excellent documentary film, ''The Four Horsemen'' :

To be honest, whether or not you think those solutions are viable may not be the most important thing to ponder here. It’s more about the awareness that solutions are at hand and I very much appreciated the optimistic undertone of this excellent film which I am recommending to you and all.

respice, adspice, prospice ...

[-] 4 points by forourfutures (393) 2 years ago

Most proposed solution is viable. Implimentation is always deficient, which is why we are stuck in thi advanced predicament of unlawful goverment pretending it's ok. And, a certain amount of the population is fearfully going along with it.

I've sent myself a link to your post so I can view the doc later. No bandwidth now.

We are coming to a time where free speech will be unabridged, if we are to survive and be free to evolve, adapt. In that time all true solution will have a place to be heard. The priorities of problems determine what solution we reach for first .

When free speech is returned that will begin and the sincere promoting will have a massive front of reasoning citizens to work with,

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Adam Smith said “There is a lot of ruin in a nation”. His point was that it takes a long time for nations to fall, even when they’re dead on their feet. And he was certainly right. America took its fatal blow in 1913, one hundred years ago ; it just hasn’t hit the ground yet. This is a slow process, but it’s actually fast compared to the Romans. It took them several centuries to collapse. Excerpted from :

This article deftly discusses the ratification of 16th and 17th Amendments to The US Constitution and references the signing of the Federal Reserve Act in 1913. It is a good read and I recommend it to you. Hope you could get round to watching ''Four Horsemen'' btw and if you liked it, don't hesitate to share it.

Solidarity 'fof' and also fyi : http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/08/12/americas-descent-into-madness/ .

respice, adspice, prospice ...

[-] 2 points by forourfutures (393) 2 years ago

Thanks for that link on 1913, I knew it was bad, but not that bad.

America is not dead, just unconscious.

If we create the "principal party" and stand for alter or abolish, we'll be ok. Other wise, no.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

''The role of the PR industry in elections is explicitly to undermine the school-child version of democracy. What you learn in school is that democracies are based on informed voters making rational decisions. All you have to do is take a look at an electoral campaign run by the PR industry and see that the purpose is to create uninformed voters who will make irrational decisions. For the PR industry that's a very easy transition from their primary function. Their primary function is commercial advertising. Commercial advertising is designed to undermine markets. If you took an economics course you learned that markets are based on informed consumers making rational choices. If you turn on the TV set, you see that ads are designed to create irrational, uninformed consumers making irrational choices.'' from :

e tenebris, lux ...

[-] 2 points by forourfutures (393) 2 years ago

Ideal vs practices of reality. Do we give up the ideal because the elite do not want reality to match it? The ideal of democracy we teach children is good. We neglect to teach them law, and it's role in democracy.

When a generation doesn't know that, and gov is infiltrated, there may be a tendency to abandon the ideal. Resist, the ideal is supported by principles that are root social instincts founding civil society.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Nice comment. Have you seen this ?

It goes to the heart of what you allude to I think and is narrated by Thom Hartmann & is only 22m long.

ipsa scientia potestas est ...

[Removed]

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

''Pro Slavery'' ?! How so ?!! Do you mean 'slaves' to the cartel of private banks that is 'The Fed' ?!!!

Here's a point of view and a way to overcome our masters : http://workerscompass.org/ Solidarity.

ad iudicium ...

[-] 3 points by TheMelodicInduction (6) 3 years ago

Sadly, those not already in Occupy are seldom aware of our presence. This overall is not good. But it can be used to our advantage, as if we were invisible. Anything we do is more free of public/authority repression than before. If no one is paying attention to us, we will run under their nose.

Once we do need attention/expansion, it's all a matter of word-of-mouth chain. In essence, organizing the person-to-person news outbound-from-core-movement about Occupy and its plans. Not just relying on occaisional conversation op.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 3 years ago

'Occupy The SEC' ( http://www.occupythesec.org/ ) is a critical, technical arm of "Occupy" and thus really well worth consideration !

Again, from above : "Yes, there is a class war. It's been raging ever since Ronald Reagan was elected, ushering in three decades of spiraling economic inequality and a historically unprecedented upward grab of the nation's wealth. The Occupy movement mainstreamed the conversation about this war. Now politicians must at least pretend to pander to the interests of the 99 percent. That's revolutionary - at least for a one-year-old"(movement) !!

per ardua ad astra ...

[-] 1 points by forourfutures (393) 2 years ago

Deception of one class to try and dominate another always backfires.

They are worried that the 99 might switch to legal process and eject them.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Here's insight as to why The 99% might just have a case to do exactly that and a lot, lot more besides :

fiat lux ...

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (22422) 3 years ago

This article does the best job I've seen yet at describing this movement and properly crediting Occupy with changing the conversation in this nation. For the first time in my lifetime people are actually discussing social justice and inequity. Kudos to Occupy!

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 3 years ago

When I saw this article, it moved me viscerally too and I knew that I would have to post it for us all here. The Truth, Poignancy & Power of the 'STOP The 1% ; WE are The 99%' theme, meme and slogan is the most excellent call to action, I've ever come across and I agree with your comment wholeheartedly.

In our modern societies in which our access to most essentials of life from food and water to shelter and health care depends on money - control of that money is the ultimate instrument of social control.

With the help of 'OWS', Americans are increasingly waking up to a deep and important truth : That it is really a very, very bad idea indeed to yield control of the issuance and allocation of credit (money) to The Wall Street Banks run by con artists who operate beyond the reach of any public accountability.

Once working people found themselves unable to make ends meet with current income, The Wall Street Parasites successfully lured them into making up the difference by taking on credit card and mortgage debt that they had little or no means to repay. Very soon they were borrowing to pay not only for current consumption but also alas, to pay the interest on prior unpaid debt. This is the classic downward spiral of debt slavery that will assure an ever-widening divide between the power and luxury of a Creditor Class and the powerless desperation of a Debtor Class.

'Occupy Wall Street' has really hugely helped by focusing national and global attention on the source of the problem. Now it’s time for action to break the Wall Street 'Banking Trusts' ; replace the current Wall Street 'Banking System' with a Main Street Banking System and take back America - and the rest of us in this 'beautifulworld' too btw - from the rule by The Wall Street & 'City of London' Banksters.

There are myriad other problems and iniquities that OWS highlights & fights but 'Wall St.' is The Key !!!

radix omnium malorum est cupiditas ...

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (22422) 3 years ago

Very right, Shadz. And, Occupy gets the credit for shining a bright light on all of this. MSM may want to denigrate this movement but they do so while at the same time talking about the issues that Occupy fights for more than they ever have before. We just need to keep pushing the envelope and change will come.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 3 years ago

The Wholly Corporate Controlled MSM (ABCNNBCBS-FUX SNEWzzz et al) are all just variations on the theme of 'Right Wing' and they treat the rest of us like mushrooms, ie. 'keep us in the dark and feed us sh!*t'. There is a desultory and illusory attempt at 'Liberal' but 'Left' just doesn't get a look in - until that is, 'OWS' came along !! I also append for later reflection :

e tenebris, lux ...

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (22422) 3 years ago

Right again. This is the first "left" movement this country has seen in decades that is actually making a difference, even if it is somewhat amorphous.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 3 years ago

Consider that there is actual strength in being "amorphous". Through the prism of 'OWS' much that is iniquitous in US (UK et al) society can be clearly seen and focussed upon. To get people to 'join the dots', first they must 'see the dots' & perhaps this could well be one of OWS' key short term objectives.

Questions about the very ethos of wider society really need to be raised and as such, I also append an interesting article :

multum in parvo ...

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (22422) 3 years ago

Sigh.... From the article: "We are the most materialistic society in the history of the world, and our endless greed is going to end up swallowing us alive."

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 3 years ago

I'm afraid that the appended article may well mean that that 'sigh' was more sad and weary than anything else - so chin up and eyes on the far view with ...

per ardua ad astra ...

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (22422) 3 years ago

Great song, thanks, but due to greed, lol, I have to open it a different way here in the U.S. and this is probably a different, live, version. "Healing on my mind." :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cccwBEsx2f4

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 3 years ago

Re. "due to greed" - lol & thank you for your link as it a nicer version, imo + here's a live rendition of a tune with your 'name' all over it : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4TO4bEHjaw :-) pax et lux ...

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 3 years ago

"The Untold History of the United States", by David Swanson : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article33012.htm .

I append this here as a 'heads up' and as a gratuitous 'self bump' in the hope that you'll either, watch or read and give us an idea here later. Thanx + http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article29772.htm .

verbum satis sapienti ...

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (22422) 3 years ago

I both watched and read. Thanks, Shadz. Interesting article. It is nice to see someone trying to uncover the truth about our history. U.S. history is really just a blip in the record of world history and the nationalistic fanfare that has tinted it in the past is important to reveal for going forward. Only by knowing the truth can we make decisions that will be beneficial to us all.

And, loved that video. Awesome! Go Senator Warren!

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 3 years ago

"Only by knowing the truth can we make decisions that will be beneficial to us all." Amen 'bw' ~*~ & -

History "is where a revolution in thinking should start. This is where the morally repugnant elite control structure should end." & yeah, 'Go Warren' and we hope she can make a lasting difference.

respice, adspice, prospice ...

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (22422) 3 years ago

Let's hope. Unfortunately, today, as you know, hostilities are increasing between Hamas and Israel. Inaccurate versions of history seem to doom this area and it is the quintessential example of how we, as human beings, need a revolution in how we think about the past so that we can go forward in the best way possible.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/nov/15/israel-gaza-militants-deadly-exchanges-live

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 3 years ago

I'm afraid that things have moved on for the worse since you appended your strong link, as there are now active preparations for a ground invasion of Gaza I type this (~19:30, EST, 15thNov.'12). I will spare you any further links regarding today's events but suffice it to say things are not looking good.

pacem in terris et oremus ...

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (22422) 3 years ago

That is very disheartening, but not unexpected.

[-] 1 points by Nevada1 (5768) 3 years ago

Just thinking about the MSM news disinformation/blackout thing. MSM is a weapon of the elite. We live rural, and do not receive broadcast since digital. Not worth paying for dish to get faulty news, sports and Kardashians. We get news and information from many internet sources, and are doing well without MSM.

Anyone out there using 'Free To Air' system?

[-] 2 points by Nevada1 (5768) 3 years ago

Thank you for info.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 3 years ago

And I watched an Occupier on MSNBC discussing the OWS Strike the debt group currently working on buying defaulted debt (medical mainly) at auction for pennies on the dollar in order to then forgive said debt.

That is real poweful action. Especially if it can be highlighted somehow. And Banksters/creditors humiliated pressured to do the same. Perhaps other wealthy 1%'rs who support the 99% can contribute or take part.

Perhaps the pols can be made to put pressure or take part in the same kind of effort.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 3 years ago

Very interesting point. I personally do not hold out any hope for The 0.01%er Oligarchic Parasite Class but there may be hope for and from 'The 1%'. Re. the excellent wider points of your important comment :

RESISTANCE IS FERTILE !!!

per aspera ad astra ...

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (22422) 3 years ago

These are awesome links, especially those five theses on debt. Nice.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 3 years ago

Re. 'The Five Theses on Debt' :

  • 1) You are not a loan [or alone!]

  • 2) We live in a debt society, buttressed and secured by the debt-prison system.

  • 3) There’s a debt strike going on.

  • 4) When we strike debt, we live a life rather than repay a loan.

  • 5) We claim the necessity of debt abolition and reconstruction.

"We must remake our failed economic system that impoverishes millions while destroying the ecosystem. Using a diversity of tactics that includes a Rolling Jubilee, a People’s Bailout, and vigorous organizing towards a debt strike, Strike Debt seeks to abolish debt and reconstruct a just society where our debts and bonds are to one another and not the 1%.", from :

per aspera ad astra ...

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (22422) 3 years ago

Hopefully people will check out that website and thanks for laying out the five theses. They make sense to me.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 3 years ago

To follow on & indeed somewhat extend the wider point re. 'debt', I also append for later consideration :

The last video is worth a view and hopefully the other two links won't be overly onerous either.

respice, adspice, prospice ...

[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (22422) 3 years ago

Thank you.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 3 years ago

:) + "Democracy Is Coming to the U.S.A." = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JwmIBSMzSM ~i~

per aspera ad astra ...

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 3 years ago

Cool. Thanx.

There are some wealthy supporting OWS.

http://patrioticmillionaires.org/

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 3 years ago

Consider : There may well be 'Patriotic Millionaires' who arguably might have some kind of residual conscience and sense of integrity, humility and dignity - but I don't hold the same for billionaires who move there money around the world by keystrokes on a computer chasing 'rentier returns'.

More pertinently for this thread, 'Occupy The SEC' ( http://www.occupythesec.org/ ) is a critical, technical arm of "Occupy" & well worth consideration. Further, on 'Money & Debt', I also append :

The first is a documentary film which though from a UK perspective, still gives an excellent insight into 'Money Creation & Debt'. The following three animated films are further insights into 'Debt Money' and the final link is a more technical insight into "Deposit Expansion" and 'Fractional Reserve Lending'.

radix omnium malorum est cupiditas ...

[-] 3 points by VQkag2 (16478) 3 years ago

Excellent. Haven't seen any.

Thank you.

[-] 2 points by Kavatz (464) from Edmonton, AB 2 years ago

Particularly enjoyed reading this, which you kindly bolded:

Thanks to the Occupy movement, the American mainstream is doing something it hasn't done in decades—discussing the taboo topic of social class in America. Yes, there is a class war. It's been raging ever since Ronald Reagan was elected, ushering in three decades of spiraling economic inequality and a historically unprecedented upward grab of the nation's wealth. The Occupy movement mainstreamed the conversation about this war. Now politicians must at least pretend to pander to the interests of the 99 percent. That's revolutionary—at least for a one-year-old. By contrast, it took the women's suffrage movement 72 years—from its first convention in Seneca Falls, until the passage of the 19th Amendment in 1920—to secure women the right to vote, and we're still waiting for our first woman president. I'm sure pundits ridiculed that movement and declared it dead at many junctures during its persistent struggle.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

''Thanks to the Occupy movement, the American mainstream is doing something it hasn't done in decades—discussing the taboo topic of social class in America. Yes, there is a class war. It's been raging ever since Ronald Reagan was elected, ushering in three decades of spiraling economic inequality and a historically unprecedented upward grab of the nation's wealth. The Occupy movement mainstreamed the conversation about this war. Now politicians must at least pretend to pander to the interests of the 99 percent. That's revolutionary—at least for a one-year-old. By contrast, it took the women's suffrage movement 72 years—from its first convention in Seneca Falls, until the passage of the 19th Amendment in 1920—to secure women the right to vote, and we're still waiting for our first woman president. I'm sure pundits ridiculed that movement and declared it dead at many junctures during its persistent struggle.'' .... because it totally bears repeating and realising. Solidarity.

per aspera ad astra ...

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (32747) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Thanks to the Occupy movement, the American mainstream is doing something it hasn't done in decades—discussing the taboo topic of social class in America

True - still have a ways to go yet in talking about reality - as the current discussion is still heavily Upper & Middle Class. Lower Class and Poverty stricken are still barely mentioned.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

''Socialism for the rich ; capitalism for the poor'' says Max Keiser from one of the interviews in :

I can NOT recommend this documentary strongly enough but I honestly think that it just ain't gonna be around long and it took me a lot of looking to find it. Tweet it please bro' and spread the word. Solidarity.

multum in parvo ...

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (32747) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Done Deal

DKAtoday ‏@DKAtoday

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWKx0PS3wDw

The Four Horsemen.

What is happening at this very point in time.

Watch before it gets pulled.

Pls Share/Circulate

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Blessings on you dude & tag this sucker on too maybe : http://www.fourhorsemenfilm.com/about/ ;-)

pax ...

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (32747) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Blessings on you dude

And on you excellent educator.

Bookmarked for later: http://www.fourhorsemenfilm.com/about/

Watching the original link now: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWKx0PS3wDw

[-] 2 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 3 years ago

i don't think we can have any true overall cultural change unless we reintroduce entheogens to the equation.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 3 years ago

Indeed, "entheogens" seem increasingly to have become lost, forgotten or corrupted, as these days of hyper-materialism - "the immaterial has become ... immaterial" !! Thus, in order to reconnect with the transcendent, occluded and numinous the sacremental use of these may well be part of both our evolutionary 'past' and hence 'present', et ergo, our 'future' !

verb. sat. sap. ...

[-] 2 points by Nevada1 (5768) 3 years ago

Hello shadz,

Good article. It says so much. More has been accomplished by OWS, than we can even realize yet.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 3 years ago

"More has been accomplished by OWS, than we can even realize yet." - Thank-you 'Nev1' because for me that sentence really sums it up very beautifully. Thanx again mate and I append for you and others :

Further, with all things 'Occupy' in mind - 'GANDHI' said: "Healthy discontent is the prelude to progress" and "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." Re his ideas :

Mass, Regular 'Non Violent' Actions are what 'They' fear most & it is True Anarchists - like arguably Gandhi, who have been at the forefront of New Ideas and Thinking about True, Direct, Participatory Democracy. Thus, please also see :

Finally, 'JFK' once said: "Those who'd make Peaceful Evolution Impossible ... make Violent Revolution Inevitable". Axiomatic you may think but the 0.01% Parasites are so high on their own hubris that they really seem to be blind to such self-evident truths.

SOLIDARITY @ The 99% - Everywhere !!!

fiat lux ...

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (32747) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

In compliment: networking

It is with great pride and humility that we announce the most major development this email list has undergone since its founding.

We have become the Occupy Network.

Over the past year and a half we have sent 65 ‘Your Inbox: Occupied’ OWS newsletters. It has been a privilege to do so, and we have learned more than we ever could have imagined along the way.

As the movement has evolved, so have we. We invite you to explore:

http://occupynetwork.com/

At our founding, one of the primary issues facing Occupy Wall Street was the difficulty in keeping track of the many events. There were hosts of working groups planning all sorts of amazing actions in tandem. A primary role we took on was making sense of it all. We worked to provide an easily digestible weekly email that clearly spelled out what was happening when and where.

At this stage of OWS there are still amazing actions going on and still a need for chronicling them in due fashion. However, what has most changed is the difficulty by which would-be supporters on the outside can find a suitable entry point into the movement.

The Occupy Network is a place to discover Occupy.

Our goal is to leverage the collective power of our networks so that we can best bring together people who believe another world is possible -- and are ready to build it.

Our aims are ambitious, sure, but we believe the Occupy Network is a grand experiment aspiring to meet the needs the times before us demand.

Join us on this journey, and stay tuned for much more to come!

-- from your Occupy Network team

Future emails will includes a partial listing of events with an action focus related to the Occupy Movement in New York City. Find a more comprehensive listing of OWS events, including assemblies and meetings, at NYCGA.net/events. Please email takeaction@occupynetwork.com about actions to consider for inclusion, and to contact us at large.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (8645) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Where do you honestly feel we stand ten months out from you having posted this?

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 2 years ago

We've had our differences facts...still do ;-), but that was a excellent question

I wish we had more people in the MSM who asked questions like that

~Odin~

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Word on the street is you've been banned again !!! For what ?!! To what purpose ?!

Here's another reminder of what's it's really all about for the 99% and us here too :

veritas vos liberabit ...

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Thanks to the Occupy movement the American mainstream is doing something that it hasn't done in decades - discussing the taboo topic of social class in America. Yes, there is a class war. It's been raging ever since Ronald Reagan was elected, ushering in over three decades of spiralling economic inequality & a historically unprecedented upward grab of the nation's wealth. The Occupy movement mainstreamed the conversation about this war. Now politicians must at least pretend to pander to the interests of the 99 percent. That's revolutionary, at least for a now two-year-old. By contrast, it took the women's suffrage movement 72 years, from its first convention in Seneca Falls, until the passage of the 19th Amendment in 1920 - to secure women the right to vote - and we're still waiting for our first woman president. I am sure pundits ridiculed that movement and declared it dead at many junctures during its persistent struggle.

Now I'll admit that I quoted that directly from the article above - without using my more usual ''quotation marks'' because : a) your question has very real value ; b) It needed an answer & c) because that single paragraph spoke my mind then when I posted this article (hence I put it in bold) and it does so now too.

Now nearly 2 years since OWS' inception - nothing has changed to alter my opinion and I will repeat the bold scripted last line again : ''This is a fantastic track record for a one-year-old movement. And it is very threatening to the entrenched corporate interests who want us to believe that this movement is over - or better yet, that it never happened.'' --- Why ? Because I do not expect instant gratification or immediate results and I because I take a long view - like our opposition 'ALEC & The Koch Heads' and The Infernal Banksters. OWS is now seeding resistance, cf : 'Strike-Debt', 'Moral Monday', 'RestoreTheFourth' et al.

So frf, I tried an answer and I hope that you don't think that I was overly perfunctory & now I'll ask you a question in return. What do you think of these :

multum in parvo ...

[-] 2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 2 years ago

The kind of initiatives that sprung from the birth of Occupy are being examined and emulated by not only ordinary ciitzens in their daily life, but also now by towns and cities across the country

As more and more people become aware, they will connect at the grass-roots level and RESISTANCE will continue to grow

And then viable alternatives will begin to replace the current corrupt status quo

Systemic change has always come from the bottom up!

~Odin~

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

''RESISTANCE will continue to grow - as more and more people become aware, they will connect at the grass-roots level'' - Damn Straight, Odin !!! As such and in support and compliment, I append and very strongly recommend : “Four Horsemen” :

The filmmakers interviewed 23 more or less well-known thinkers, not only experts like Noam Chomsky, Philip Blond and Richard Wilkinson - but people who used to work within “the system” and talk about their first-hand experiences and the interviews in ''Four Horsemen'' are frank and very insightful. VERY strong recommendation that you watch, save and share this - while u still can 'cause it ain't gonna be available for too long. Solidarity ~*~

veritas vos liberabit ...

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (8645) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Let's stay here for a minute, I was watching Newsweek on HBO last and the pretend news reader was grilling an OWS representative about the value of a leaderless movement. This continues to be the model and some would say problem with OWS. As I watched the show I tried to answer the question for myself, and for me it has always been about the concepts. To me a "leaderless" movement is one where concepts and ideals and strategies can be tested and defended till the best survive. What I see, on the forum as in life the ideals are judge first by the question "Is it mine?" in other words ego and "leaders" become more important than the ideal. It is a common occurrence, not just with OWS.

To some extend even the references to outside writers in some ways steps away from the spirit that OWS is about those that are willing to come here, or go there, and stand for their own thoughts. Not to pick a fight but it is how I feel. If folks want to be a part of OWS then let them come here and do so, or go to a park near you so to speak.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

I re-read that several times & I'm not all that much clearer or wiser. Time will tell as to how all this pans out but I have faith in what OWS is seeding. I won't repeat myself here but will again refer you to both my penultimate and final paragraphs in my previous reply.

Those articles are useful and my opinions on matters come a far distant second to some of the stuff I copy & link to here because I'll let you into a wee secret 'frf' .... I'm mainly here to serve an 'information function' for The 99% (or is that too pretentious and egotistical ?!) and I don't claim to have any original thoughts on any matters but I know the ones I like and can subscribe to and so push those that I see as 99% centred. I also refer you to Odin's reply above & finally, I'll append fyi :

''A housing cooperative is created by people coming together on a democratic basis to own housing. Usually a nonprofit is formed to manage the cooperative and people pay each month to cover the operating expenses. Members of the cooperative each own a share in the corporation that owns the property in which they live. Each shareholder is entitled to occupy a specific unit and has a vote in the corporation. A key aspect in any cooperative is democratic control by the members; usually that requires the election of a board of directors, creation of committees or, in smaller cooperatives, decision-making by the group.'' Also fyi frf et al :

per ardua ad astra ...

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (8645) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

each of us must live within what life presents us I suppose,

what I saw/see within OWS is the great power of random action, those more accustom to structure and hierarchal order see this as chaos, as the person on the TV show I referred to did, what they do not see is the beauty and power of randomness, if I may I would encourage you to look more to yourself for answers if it doesn’t ring true to you it’s probably not, there can only be a choir if every voice is heard, anyway another way to say this would be that the whole damn thing is blown up tight as a balloon and one sliver of truth will blow the whole thing apart if it ever gets to the surface

stop by to see my latest if you want

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-tQChaBj1A

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

We do what we can in our own way for The 99%. I promise to watch your video frf but can you promise the same for this ? --- “Four Horsemen” :

I really appreciate your encouragement ''to look more to yourself for answers'' but I don't agree with you because I ain't all that and 'cause I never knew just how ignerunt I was 'til I gone n' done a li'l learnin' ;-)

I can NOT recommend this documentary strongly enough. It's probably not anything you don't know but hey, there's always the outside chance we either learn something or have something we think we know confirmed or corrected or even we learn that there are new dots to join and clearer connections to make.

ad iudicium ...

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (8645) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I didn't watch the whole hour and half, I have a bunch of work I got to get done, but here's one you may not have seen check out the YouTube and the story, bankers aren't the only greedy SOBs killing us.

http://www.trueactivist.com/why-medicine-wont-allow-cancer-to-be-cured/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWLrfNJICeM

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Re. marginal tax rates and the Bush 'Tax Cuts' - I got around to watching your video. Very interesting - as are those two links above re. cancer. I did not yet fully watch the video link but I did read the very eye-opening article. Thanx for sharing and by way of a favour for a favour, I append and recommend :

I will get around to watching your You-Tube link - hope you''ll do the same for my ''Four Horsemen'' link & we'll say nothing more about where it was that you 1st you saw that graph, lol & sort your mike out ;-)

pax et lux ; hic et ubique ; nunc et semper ...

[-] 1 points by nomdeguerre (1775) from Brooklyn, NY 3 years ago

The proper response to the media's post-mortems of Occupy is attack, attack, attack.

We have the most disgraceful body of journalists since Goebel's. Too bad it's not a crime to impersonate a journalist.

Look what trying to be reasonable did for Howard Dean (in his campaign for president) and Acorn.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 3 years ago

OWS#O13 is soon & the rolling programme - rolls on !!! LOL re. "crime to impersonate a journalist" !! Please also see 'News' tab on the left hand side of site too bar above !

per ardua ad astra ...

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 3 years ago

For something rather rousing ... as "The Workers Have Nothing To Lose But Their Chains" :

SOLIDARITY

per ardua ad astra ...

[-] -2 points by fionachuckles (-375) from Fairview, NJ 2 months ago

I want to believe you that OWS left a legacy and really changed things.

But the way the elections are going now, it just does not seem like it's the case. The most conservative one is winning on the side of the Democrats (Hillary winning vs Sanders), and the most conservative one is also winning for the GOP, namely Trump.

There's even a chance that Trump wins the Presidential election of 2016.

That makes it seem to me that OWS is not only dead like Micah and Tunney are saying, but that there isn't much of a socialist change in America. If anything, it seems America is getting more conservative and towards the right.

[-] 2 points by grapes (4376) 2 months ago

You are badly mistaken about Trump. He was NOT conservative enough for the establishment. He was saying things such as protecting Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and even Planned Parenthood's 'other' (i.e., non-abortion related) programs. That was what the row about 'New York values' was. If he really meant them, these are truly what mainstream Americans can agree with. Therein lies his appeal.

I suspect the establishment hates Trump because of his maverick ways, NOT (gasp!) under the super-PACs' control. If the millionaires and billionaires want to have political control, they can join in and run for the Presidency, too, and take the ridicules and accolades as Trump does. They can certainly spend however much of their personal fortunes they want on the quest.

Ted Cruz helped forced the shutdown of the U.S. government, costing billions of dollars for absolutely NOTHING except a downgrading of the credit-worthiness of the U.S. government. It is as stupid as not paying the credit card bill to protest the growing amount of debt owed, even though there is ample money to pay the bill. Yep, we STILL have to pay the bill. In addition, we must also pay interests and penalties. We lose good will, such as that of the tourists who get shut out. On top of that, our future borrowings will be charged higher interest rates because of the credit downgrade. How stupid is that! Maybe it's 'Cow Pie values!'

Ted Cruz is not doing well so the U.S. is not getting more conservative towards the right. It takes time so the Americans who yell, "Get the f--king government's dirty hands off of my Medicare!" will get it eventually. Americans will always do the right thing, eventually, like God does 'in His time.' A moment could mean after four hundred years or yet another world war for the Colossus!

[-] 0 points by fionachuckles (-375) from Fairview, NJ 2 months ago

Well, if I was mistaken and Trump is a socialist, then I admit my fault.

I was under the impression he was a conservative and generally against OWS principles.

Are many occupiers here supporting Trump?

Is he more a socialist than Sanders?

I do admit having followed US electoral progress from a certain distance. Not realize Trump is a socialist is a huge mistaken on my part for sure.

You got me. I admit my fault.

[-] 1 points by grapes (4376) 2 months ago

Trump's political target right now is the difference between two divergent series, i.e., infinity minus infinity. That can be anything. That's truly the beauty of his candidacy! It is all kinds of everything depending on how one looks at his statements after arranging them as one sees fit.

He is not 99%. That's for sure so he is NOT OWS. He has vested interests in New York so he has skin in the game to protect New York. I am very sure that he would do what he can to avoid another aerial attack on any high-rise building in New York. I have skin in the same game, too. He is probably nationalist and anti-free-trade. If free trade is such a great thing, we should apply it to dissolving the American Medical Association, American Bar Association, etc. so that anyone can freely practice medicine and law. That will create jobs.

I am absolutely amazed by Trump's ability to mobilize the passion of the electorate, both for and against him. I consider that as a great contribution to democracy because many people have already become apathetic about the political process, including me. He's the best thing that has happened to the GOP in a long long time. Shule and I would not mind having a supermodel white-slaved "bimbo" First Lady at all. Charm counts.

He's unlikely to be more socialist than Sanders. He may just be saying socialist statements to help him get votes but we had heard so much poetry in campaigns and got so much satire in governance instead, that I find his nursery rhymes charming. Goo, goo! Yo, gurt.

[-] 0 points by fionachuckles (-375) from Fairview, NJ 2 months ago

Trump doesn't leave one indifferent, that's for sure. I guess he's the humanistic relief we needed in politics.

[-] 1 points by grapes (4376) 2 months ago

If nothing else, he provides entertainment in the grand tradition of Saturday Night Live. Maybe the world will come to appreciate our 1776-tall freedom TV phallic symbol, too.

[-] 1 points by fionachuckles (-375) from Fairview, NJ 2 months ago

Lol, well said!

[-] 1 points by grapes (4376) 2 months ago

World! Behold and salute our 1776-style anti-free-trade National 'Socialist' Kaiser to be.

It helps greatly that he is isolationist, not located in fractious Europe with many crumbs to swallow, but hemmed in by both Canada and Mexico in North America with oceanic moats on the other two sides.

Nonetheless, learn to enjoy the Saturday-Night-Live humor. You only live once!

[-] -2 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 3 years ago

It's funny how this article insists that Occupy is not interested in electing candidates, Democrat or otherwise, right before it launches into over-the-top hyperbole about Mitt Romney being directly connected to Salvadoran death squads.

I did like the word "punditocracy", though.

[-] 2 points by hazencage (58) 3 years ago

lol.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 3 years ago

Are any questions about 'Mitt for B(r)ains' to be construed as 'out of bounds' for 'OWS' ?! Should we all simply stay 'schtum' on any matter pertaining to this 'wolf in wolf's clothing' for fear of being seen as 'partisan', lol ?!! Is Romoney, 'The Randian Romulan Robot' any kind of blessing for The US 99% ?!!!

Re. "Salvadorean death squads" & "hyperbole", please feel free to see :

e tenebris, lux ...

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 3 years ago

You're supposed to pretend the truth isn't real.

As though every day is square one, and what went before doesn't count.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 3 years ago

Sounds like 'Groundhog Day' to me !!! Sheesh !! No thanx ! Also ...

"So much wealth and power have accumulated at the top of America that our economy and our democracy are seriously threatened. Romney not only represents this problem. He is the living embodiment of it."

A 'rock and a hard place' ? Re. The US 99%, to paraphrase Prof. Cornel West - "Ohbomber - Disaster ; Romoney - Catastrophe" and please also see the "President Jill Stein ?" link below.

spero meliora ...

[-] -2 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 3 years ago

Right, because that's exactly how somebody behaves when they're not trying to get any specific candidate elected. You posted an article that belittles people who don't understand that OWS is not trying to elect candidates and then you followed up with Obama 2012 campaign propaganda. So aren't you kind of making fun of yourself by contradicting yourself like that?

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 3 years ago

Interesting 'straw man thesis' and you seem to propose that we all stay schtum in case saying anything we feel, see or know about one candidate for POTUS (S)Election may somehow be seen as support for another. That is as tendentious & specious to me as claiming that the posted article "belittles people".

Further, re. Romoney, Bains & The 'Salvadorean Connection' - first you call it "hyperbole" but then when presented with evidential links - you regard it as "Obama 2012 campaign propaganda". I have a distinct feeling that you would regard any questions about 'Mitt for Brains' in the same manner & that you would not query any such aspersions about Obomber. So, I'll leave you to have the last laugh in trying to point out where it is that I am "contradicting" &/or "making fun" of myself here and instead leave you & others to perhaps later quietly consider and reflect upon :

"It's estimated that both President Obama and Mitt Romney will draw out anywhere between 45 and 60 million apiece in November, according to 2008 turnout numbers. But according to one USA Today poll, an estimated 90 million people who could vote this year probably won't, as they're disappointed in both candidates and major political parties. What if just two-thirds of those 90 million people turned out for a candidate with a truly bold vision, who isn't beholden to corporate donors or bought party elites ? It would be a colossal upset for the establishment, and a big win for citizens."

minima maxima sunt

[-] 1 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 3 years ago

Ah I see, okay. I get it.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 3 years ago

Apparently you're an avowed Republican - so I'm not at all sure that you do "get it" - but no hard feelings anyway and good luck with that ;-)

ad iudicium ...

[-] 1 points by hazencage (58) 3 years ago

I think a lot of avowed liberals such as myself feel alienated by occupy, and in the end I will be voting for obama, but until occupy matures I will continue to enjoy the critiques raised by individuals such as TechJunkie.

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 3 years ago

Marvin Gaye - "What's going On" : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-kA3UtBj4M&feature=related ;

Sly & the Family Stone - "Everyday People" : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hcgoLojOVo&feature=related &

Curtis Mayfield - "Move On Up" : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Z66wVo7uNw&feature=related :)

pax, amor et lux ...

[-] -3 points by fionachuckles (-375) from Fairview, NJ 3 months ago

Guess you were wrong about this. Even the organizers of OWS call it dead in the water.

We have to face reality if we want to find real solutions to real problems. Creating fiction like conspiracy theorists do will not help us. Accepting that OWS is dead is the first step to continuing the battle to reform the world. It means we need to try something else.

Read - The End of Protest - by M White.

[-] 4 points by ImNotMe (1488) 3 months ago

You can not wait to piss on the grave of OWS And This Forum can you, TrashyManque'?!!! I do not & never have accepted that .. ''OWS is dead'', much as you would clearly like it to be!! I have known this about you for a very long time but your manipulative, faux expressions of support facade, just can't be maintained when you miss your lithium dose,can it?!

Your reactionary, conservative ass - is about as exposed as it could possibly be & it should be kicked as hard and as often as possible! You're an enemy of The 99%, of OWS and - this very forum that you have so very hard to subvert, manipulate and destroy!! No one can or does take, you as anything other than a slimy, deceitful, poisonous snake in the grass!!!

anguis in herba - temet nosce!

[-] -2 points by fionachuckles (-375) from Fairview, NJ 3 months ago

OWS is dead. It's a fact. My political leanings, political wants, etc.. have nothing to do with this. A good leftist is a scientific leftist. Someone who is not stuck in fantasy. By realizing OWS did not change America into a leftist country, and that OWS is no longer active, we can start trying new things.

OWS is dead, but the left is not. OWS was only one expression of the left.

If you think OWS is still alive and kicking, that means you won't try anything else. You'll just fantasize about OWS thinking it is changing America when it no longer even exists.

Wake up son. Wake up!

[-] 2 points by ImNotMe (1488) 3 months ago

An anti-99%/OWS - RWNJ GOP Trumper - is preferable in debate ... to a false-friend, faux-sympathiser, desperate to experience schandenfreude and undermine this place!!! Like you - your words are poison & do NOT come from someone who genuinely feels part of The 99%!! I'd bet you hard cash money that not only do you have no real friends - but your family are more than happy not to have to see you too!

Indeed, any and all positive effects of OWS will be utterly denied & refuted by you on a point of principle! For those of us from & of ''The Left'' - immature, instant gratification is a bourgeois conceit.So you get it!! Your time frame is of the instant results culture borne of Crapitalist Short Term-ism!! I reject that totally!!!

honi soit qui mal y pense ...

[-] 0 points by fionachuckles (-375) from Fairview, NJ 3 months ago

"You are clueless, cynical and in denial about the effects OWS has had in The U$A"

OWS had huge effect on US, I never doubted that. A great positive effect indeed. It brought everyone with left leaning penchants together in the street. It was a good first step.

The fact that it is now dead doesn't mean it didn't accomplish anything. There are offshoots of OWS still active today. OWS did what it was supposed to do. It screamed the problems to the world. Now it's dead simply because no one is active directly with OWS. Doesn't mean other things can't happen, etc...

Again, I don't want this forum shut down. I want it opened up. I wrote a bunch of posts and comments about that in the last week.

[-] -2 points by fionachuckles (-375) from Fairview, NJ 3 months ago

Well, you're the one who calls me a faux sympathiser even though what I say supports OWS ideology. I wanted to build a bridge to the ground, a direct democracy system like Demoex, wanted to remove points and moderators from the forum and replace it with an ignore function, etc... I support socialized healthcare, schooling, etc...

The only difference between us is that I don't buy into goofball conspiracy theories.

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 3 months ago

I very seldom do 'real time exchanges' with assholes - as this forum is NOT A Chat Room ... but as I wait for the latest ''Dem Town Hall Debate'' (on CNN @ 8pm EST I think), I tell you to stop bleating at me and read this instead ...

respice; adspice; prospice ...

[-] -2 points by fionachuckles (-375) from Fairview, NJ 3 months ago

I know about the legacy of Occupy Wall Street. I agree with you. I'm just saying OWS is now dead. Plain fact. And, if we are smart, we could at least try to revive the internet part of it. Namely, this forum. We could try to get it open and active again.

[-] 2 points by ImNotMe (1488) 3 months ago

All here know that you tried to exhort and cajole and exasperate jart into closing this forum & when your guard is down, u express it still, so stop squirming cunT-boy & go jerk off to the Edit 2 on Nev1's thread:

vale...

[-] -2 points by fionachuckles (-375) from Fairview, NJ 3 months ago

No, I had nothing to do with jart closing the forum. She has always made her own decisions. She flies her own flag. She has a strong personality, I couldn't influence her even if I wanted.

She simply realized as I had for a long time already that the Twinkle Team was trolling the forum. So, she banned most of the members of that group and closed the forum so they could not come back. Her doing.

Don't blame me for your problems. Stand tall and stop playing the victim.

[-] 3 points by ImNotMe (1488) 3 months ago

The forum has never been closed - despite your deeply conservative; pro-Corporation; pro-status~quo; pro-1% Establishment Propaganda- motivated wishes for that indeed to be the case!!! You have again intentionally misunderstood what I have said above ... despite already previously having accepted that you did exhort jart to close down this forum - but of course,remembering what lie you said to who and when .. is your on going dilemma on this forum .. as it is so in your real life!! I am still standing, tall or otherwise but this forum is and will be - a ''victim'' of your intrigues ... if we allow it!

et nosce te ipsum ...

[-] -2 points by fionachuckles (-375) from Fairview, NJ 3 months ago

The forum is currently closed and has been for awhile. New users cannot sign up. Why do you think participation is at an all time low.

And, where is this pro-establishment, pro 1%, pro conservative, etc.. propaganda. Can you point to a single post or comment of mine pushing such ideas? I think not. The only liar here is you.

[-] 3 points by ImNotMe (1488) 3 months ago

''Closed'' as in ''Shut Down'' - NO! ''Closed'' as in ''to new users'' - yes .. sadly that is and has been the case for 18 months. You'll go a long way towards redeeming yourself - IF you can help to correct that situation .. having been integral to causing it in the first place!

ad iudicium ...

[-] -2 points by fionachuckles (-375) from Fairview, NJ 3 months ago

Yes, closed as in the front door is closed and no new people can come in.

It was closed for the Twinkle Team, not for me. If you remember jart changed the names zendog and shooz to zendogTroll and shoozTroll. Didn't she even do a shadzTroll. I really had nothing to do with jart shutting down the forum, but you and the Twinkle Team did.

I'm not sure how I could help correct the situation. I give my full support, but what exactly could I do, or others?

Do you have any ideas on how to go about getting this place open for business again?

[-] 2 points by ImNotMe (1488) 3 months ago

You were banned more times - than even you can remember!!! Your lies and half truths are meaningless distractions!! Your li'l alliterative ''Twinkle Team'' meme, was amusing for about 20 minutes - 2 years ago but it is meaningless now that the DNC/Likud Faction have left or been banned,so how about u WTFU?!

minima maxima sunt ...