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Forum Post: [DELETED]

Posted 1 year ago on Dec. 29, 2012, 2:46 a.m. EST by anonymous ()
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72 Comments

72 Comments


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[-] 4 points by gsw (2687) 1 year ago

Here's a better idea

Ows let's start making our own food, power, etc so the corporations don't get from us no more.

Let's pool resources and start local organic farms,

And anything else we can produce locally, with American workers

Anyone have any expertise on useful necessary items we need that we can produce ourselves.

Can we recycle old newspapers into toilet paper or something

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[-] 4 points by gsw (2687) 1 year ago

We probably have all kinds of talent we can barter and expertise we could trade amongst ourselves, if we organized it.

For example, if I needed some nice cabinets, if there was local business favorable to Ows, I might want to use them. Maybe. Could exchange some hours laboring for the company, and get a discount, and they would get the business.

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

alec & koch & ryan say we have a debt crisis
I say we have a jobs crisis
alec & koch & ryan want a balenced budget -
do you stand with alec & koch & ryan ?
or
do you stand with me [ AND OWS ] ?
***.
my solution - borrow MORE money & put people to work
the interest rates we pay on borrowing is very low
we need an FDR type TVA & WPA

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[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Union yes!!!

Are you sure you stand with us?

[-] 2 points by Misaki (893) 1 year ago

They tried that. As a result, their wages went from $20 per month to $40/month, a huge increase. http://baltimorepostexaminer.com/category/news-opinions/special-reports/bangladesh-labor

But still not enough for a US worker to even afford food (http://occupywallst.org/forum/fixing-the-worlds-problems/)

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[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

It has for quite some time. It is the main reason that you hear of people moving companies back to the US. Go back another 20 years and look at places like South Korea and you start seeing people being jailed for starting unions.

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[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

By demanding better working conditions internationally, no one gets jacked. Unions are a beautiful thang.

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[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

What is inherently important is making sure that those people that are in the US illegally are given full rights. They aren't coming in from the bottom. They are coming in from the top. They are then held hostage with small pay and threats of deportation and work in conditions that can be down right lethal. It is quite clear that it is the corporations that must be held accountable.

No, really.

Once this can be achieved then the demands can be made internationally as these are often multinational corporations.

[-] -3 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

unions are racket to bleed money from members for political power.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Again? Did you have to change your ID again?

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Did you have to change your ID again?

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (27702) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

To the 2nd thought - maybe they will continue to work and sell to their own economy/people - I know - crazy thought - but they now have the equipment factories and such - why not instead of them looking outward for an economy to participate in - what if - instead - they developed their own internal economy.

[-] 2 points by Anarcat (42) 1 year ago

Human Trafficking is a crime against humanity

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (27702) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Late one evening a thought occured to me..

Did it hurt?

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[-] 1 points by cJessgo (729) from Port Jervis, PA 1 year ago

Maybe you should get more sleep when it is late in the night.Oh if you have not heard the jobs in china etc are cumming back.Being relocated at a private prison near you.Cuts down on the shipping cost.

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

Here is a real thought the current economy is the new economy and it will only get worse from here. As automation takes over the retail and service industries and automated factories in the u.s. replace slave labor over seas. The real question is do the elite entertain us or kill us.

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

Perhaps they will go back to the rural villages and learn their peoples indigenous knowledge so that it is not lost to mcdonalds and walmart.

[-] 1 points by Anarcat (42) 1 year ago

Fuck Corperate Greed. We are fucking killing people. One Nation Under God?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (27702) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Yep - killing people - all in the ( UN-said name ) name of corpoRAT Greed.

[-] 1 points by Anarcat (42) 1 year ago

Thank you for agreeing with me. When the world isn't run by fucking Walmart or Nike, I will be a much happier human being.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (27702) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

When corpoRATions and a very few wealthy individuals are made to stop running/screwing the world - it will be a healthier place for all. If the People get involved and stay involved in the running of society.

[-] 1 points by Anarcat (42) 1 year ago

Yes and through the Occupy Movement we are achieving this. I would like to re-create Zuccotti Park and reunite the masses in protest.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (27702) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

A good idea, regular gatherings there as often as possible would be a good thing. Opportunities to hand out leaflets to passersby and continue the public education.

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[-] 1 points by cJessgo (729) from Port Jervis, PA 1 year ago

You are laying it on quite thick are you not Madam?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (27702) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Depends on the state and or area that madam is talking about - there are some really nasty places in the USA.

[-] 1 points by cJessgo (729) from Port Jervis, PA 1 year ago

This Madam takes many forms.She /It has been with us from Sept 2011..And yes you are right about those places,but this one has never been there.And she/it would never eat at their table.The name changes,The arguments/opinions change the style is the same.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (27702) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Good to see someone else is paying attention. I think the only problem that Madam has solved is it's boredom

[-] 1 points by cJessgo (729) from Port Jervis, PA 1 year ago

Well DK Madam is quite smart.Generaly has one or two side kicks around working the topic with her.On a personal note she does not hold her liquor very well.At present she is upset with me and does not answer my on or off topic comments.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (27702) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Sounds familiar - would expect a half dozen sockpuppets rather then sidekicks. Silence is the general rule as they quite quickly get batted down if they engage.

[-] 1 points by cJessgo (729) from Port Jervis, PA 1 year ago

One or two is the norm.At present it is working a different side of the coin. But as I said has a style that is unmistakable.I have noticed it likes to engage with One last thing I will confide with you is that madam is a little bit on the round side.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (27702) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Pregnant?

As for engaging? yeah some like to do that to see if they can rattle you. But if you consistently slap em down then they will stop engaging and go for silent attacks - silent attacks which make no real sense as they can not collapse your comment anymore - at worst they take your comment off of the best comment board.

[-] 1 points by cJessgo (729) from Port Jervis, PA 1 year ago

Not pregnant,5ft 180lbs

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (27702) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

U would be knowing this - how?

[-] 1 points by cJessgo (729) from Port Jervis, PA 1 year ago

Yep met last year at a casino.Told you she can not hold her liquor.Thought the woman never had a drink before that.She was upset at the time.Her long term relationship with her boy freind was on the rocks.He also posted here.Sara was beside herself for some time.She took time off.Came back but did not have that ol fire.Off again for some time.But she is back now and ready to fight.She may have dropped weight since that time.I would hope she did as she was under thirty.

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

Actually the preferred approach would be to dump globalization/free trade in favor of the American System of economics:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_School_%28economics%29

The American System seeks to raise wages and working conditions, for all workers everywhere, by improving the education of the workers and the technology that is available for them to work with.

In the old days, American factory workers made enough money to buy houses, cars and send their kids to college. After WW2, FDR's idea was to export the American System to third world countries around the world by providing them with advanced technology on credit.

The result would have been an entire world of first world nations. Instead, after FDR died, Truman a globalist lackey took over, Kennedy was assassinated, and we ended up with free trade instead.

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[-] 0 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

I see, is that what you think America is all about? Would you consider yourself "anti-American"?

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[-] 2 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

I can see how you would feel that way, if you think of the system that we have today as capitalism. For me, our current system is not capitalism, which is supposed to be a system that allows as many people as possible to accumulate capital, in order to buy a home or start their own business.

What we have now is imperialism, which is a system that allows the wealthiest people of the world to rob the people of a capitalist country of their accumulated capital.

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[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

You are talking about life as it is today, but we are not living in a capitalist society today, so yes, in fact, people are working long hard hours and living near the poverty line. This is due to imperialist domination of our country.

About fifty years ago things were different. Working in a factory, a regular work week, of about forty hours, people with no college education could buy houses and cars, and send their kids to college, while accumulating capital to create a better future.

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[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

Capitalism has failed, not because of some internal flaw, but rather because it is young and inexperienced in relation to imperialism, which dates back thousands of years to ancient Rome and Babylon.

While American capitalism was able to defeat the imperialist power of the English empire in open war, through its superior management of human and material resources, it was unable to comprehend, much less defend itself from the slow and stealthy takeover through covert means and corruption by today's globalist financial empire.

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[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

If by "the Markets" you mean Wall Street, then I would agree with you. Wall Street has always been an outpost of imperialism in America. Wall Street was first established as a commercial colony by the Dutch empire in America and was later taken over by the British empire.

Wall Street is completely unnecessary to the American capitalist economy. To know more:

http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2011/3842no_need_wall_st.html

Excerpt:

In the 17th Century, when European colonies were planted on the eastern seaboard of North America, the premier colonies, those that represented a philosophical seedling that grew into the United States of America, were located in Plymouth and Massachusetts Bay. Based on the concept of the Common Good, and organized around a philosophical view of man as a rational, creative creature, under the leadership of the Winthrop and Mather families, Massachusetts developed the political and economic institutions which became the basis for the American Republic. Most of the other colonies were also founded, to one degree or another, by individuals seeking political or religious liberty. But not New York! From the beginning it was an outpost of empire.

Present-day New York City was founded in 1626 as New Amsterdam, a commercial colony of the Dutch West India Company. All of the Dutch colonies, in the Americas, Africa, and Asia, were strictly commercial colonies, tightly controlled by the two imperial Dutch maritime firms, the Dutch East India Company and the Dutch West India Company. The colonies were deployed to extract loot (raw materials, spices, furs, etc.) from the colonial territories. Emigration from The Netherlands to the colonies was generally discouraged, and manual labor was done almost exclusively by slaves.

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[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

I'm sure the imperialists would agree with you. They are the originators of much of the anti-capitalist philosophy. Unfortunately, history doesn't agree with you. When capitalism existed as it was intended to, it created a rising tide for every body.

Here in China, the United States is called 美国, měiguó, meaning "the beautiful country". There is a reason why people from around the world once thought of America as beautiful, and still would like to go there despite its problems today. Most rich Chinese people move, or want to move to America.

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[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

Actually, capitalism isn't about money, monetarism is about money. Capitalism is about "capital" meaning the means of production. It's about all the things that make a society productive. It usually means the machines in a factory, but for me it also means the public infrastructure and the people themselves, in terms of their personal development.

A true capitalist tries to develop his capital by investing in it. This can mean improving the machines in his factory, but can also mean improving his workers by paying them more money. In real capitalism, the economy expands through the expansion, growth that is, of the worker.

When we had a real capitalist society, the workers loved the system. That's why you used to have factory workers and construction workers opposed to the hippies in the old days.

[-] 0 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

You're right with your assessment of capitalism. It's not a perfect system, but it's the best one .

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

Glad to hear that you see it that way.

[+] -4 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

capitalism is about equal opportunity , not guaranteed equal outcome. what you with your life is up tp you.

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[+] -5 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

How wrong you are. all the money in the world can payfor your tutition but it cannot make a person a qualified MD. That's up to the person in question. It requires long hours of study , and the talent to be a doctor. money doesnt give anyone talent or drive. there are plenty of self made millionaires.

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[-] -1 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

if a person wants to pursue a particular field , they can find a way, through scholarship, work/study, etc. what you want is a utopia where everything is made possible by the govt. who taught you to hate capitalism? who taught you hate self reliance? who taught you to hate?

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[-] -1 points by Shayneh (-482) 1 year ago

The jobs are coming back here - it was talked about today on CNN. Also there was a discussion about the airlines and how Americans crossed the 2 billion traveler abroad mark.

They also said that 7.6 trillion was pumped into the "travel economy" 2011 by the Middle Class in this country.

So its apparent based on these reports that the "Middle Class" is doing just fine.

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[-] -1 points by Shayneh (-482) 1 year ago

So tell me what financial "boundary" do you place the middle class in?

I have read the middle class is divided into two section - middle class ($75,000 - $115,000) and upper middle class (125,000 - 175),000.

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[-] -1 points by Shayneh (-482) 1 year ago

Investing and workig are two completely differnt things. A person working all his lifetime may make over 1.5 million.

A person who owns a business and is successful can make 1.5 million in 1 year in sales.

So do you think we should close all businesses - and if so then where will people go to work -

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[-] -1 points by Shayneh (-482) 1 year ago

Tell me, how do you "calculate" a "persons net worth" if it isn't based upon what they own?

[-] -2 points by queef (-69) 1 year ago

So ...was this your FIRST fucking thought nubnutz?

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[-] 1 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 1 year ago

Because of an infiltration into the US government after the civil war, we cannot say that America has given capitalism a fair try. Capitalism has been made to serve corporations by the infiltrators that gave corporations rights of personhood.

Within that our exercise and perception of capitalism can be easily seriously flawed.

With free speech abridged, as well as freedom of the press, the natural possibilities of the populations knowing what is best changes. Something in the middle of the post I reply to and this by gsw, is about where we may find function that will improve towards ideals we probably cannot appreciate yet.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/late-one-evening-a-thought-occured-to-me/#comment-903970

gsw describes a local action on one hand and a movement on another. Social centralization. Or the occupy network proposes links across populations between the occupiers with a central service that is occupy(?)

It truly needs to be local in each instance and very visible in commerce. Why commerce? Because commerce is how needs are met NOW. Whether or not capitalism is an ideal or not is kinda moot because that is what exists now and its local networking with as little distance as possible between people is what works in the sustainable model.

gsw's idea of occupy selecting certain corporations to favor and do buisness with is a worthy concept. Notice consumer affairs sorta disappeared before chinese manufactured stuff buried our shelves cheap.

Clearly to manifest these deserving ideas an organizational force with economic power will have to either structure it and do it or simply make a network, educate and give people time to move over to local networking.

For occupy it could start as a local web forum that linked with craigslistorg or something. Then, if an area got busy, occupy opens an office and selects a functional training/education program that will work in the given locality.

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[-] 1 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 1 year ago

What would have happened if corporations never got the rights of persons?

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[-] 3 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 1 year ago

Wait a minute. Either the workers are real stupid and don't know the corps are guilty until proven innocent, or the courts are corrupt.

Now, I'll admit in capitalism corruption of judges is easy, but sex would have to be used. Now the question arises if the invention of capitalism was to make it easy for the powerful to get sex.

Logically, considering the sexploitation of advertising, that unconscious aspects are involved. When it comes to that we are complete idiots:-)

[-] 1 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 1 year ago

Capitalism doesn't exploit, people do. Capitalism is a system of values and exchange ideally keeping societies poised for investment and optimizations while inspiring innovation.

My point is that we actually may be screwed up on other levels and capitalism serves that.

[-] 6 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

It's unregulated capitalism we don't want.

The captains of industry fought tooth and nail to remove all regulatory stops and narrows, and now we have outright criminality and corporate piracy.

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9780) 1 year ago

Succinct. Teriffic.

[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

6 billion spent on elections in 2012.

And as their politicians continue to vote to give trillions to Wall Street and big corporations, fund wars on lies, and allow corporations to outsource American jobs to slave labor overseas, people still refuse to accept their politicians are bought off by corporations. Or even worse, they accept it and continue to vote for it.

[-] 7 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

White-collar crime used to be a statistic.

Now it is the way America operates on many levels.

The token "fines" imposed on criminal banksters and corps add up to a small percentage of profits from their crimes, so there's no way it's going to stop.

[-] 3 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

and war has become the new motto for peace.

[-] 3 points by GypsyKing (9780) 1 year ago

The world will change on the day when you fire or imprison a criminal on Wall Street, or a criminal government official, and there is no one left to take up their dirty work.

When all is said and done, the only fire that will cleanse the world is the fire for truth and honor that arises from within. We are all the problem, we are all the solution; and self-knowledge is the only way forward. We must simply, finally, commit to achieving what we are capable of as spiritual beings, and the battle must be on the field of universal non-cooperation with evil.

I see no other way.

Those who see this as impossible make it impossible by seeing it so. We now shape the world, and so the world does and will increasingly reflect the image of our spirits. It is both the easiest and the most difficult thing to attain, but that is the new battlefield, the "battlefield" for the human spirit.

That is what I have come to believe.


What if from this tired, corrupted empire something really new emerged, something worthy of the vision of this country's origins? Nobody really believes this could happen and so it can't. Cynicism is the water in which evil breeds. We are the victims of our own cynicism, and therefore trapped in a cycle of self-perpertuating misery, but the truth is that it can happen if there is the Will. Mankind has lifted that torch before and, given strength and courage, may do so again.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://50.17.193.184/archon/index.php%3Fp%3Ddigitallibrary/getfile%26id%3D15%26preview%3Dlong&imgrefurl=http://50.17.193.184/archon/?p%3Ddigitallibrary/digitalcontent%26id%3D5&h=900&w=646&sz=120&tbnid=m99AEPpGE4QzDM:&tbnh=93&tbnw=67&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dlorenzo%2Bde%2Bmedici%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=lorenzo+de+medici&usg=__lww7DUzDGH0w4qWPVO6F5k1T9K0=&docid=B6NwDFKTBJkgpM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=bO8GUZbsHoz0igLsq4GIAw&ved=0CDIQ9QEwATgK&dur=1934

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (27702) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Peace the poster-child held up as an excuse for resource wars.

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9780) 1 year ago

You summed up this whole movement in that statement!

Many have seen this situation developing for decades and might as well have been howling at the moon, for all anyone would listen.

If we allow this to go on than we don't deserve to go on, not just as a "superpower," but as a nation.

My gorge rises at it.

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

It makes me wonder if getting the money out of electioneering is going to make a huge difference, now that these corporate criminals are in positions of power from the fed res, congress, EPA, FEMA, SCOTUS, military spending, the list goes on.

These white-collar crims are now basically calling the shots. The POTUS assisted them into their new roles. No wonder there's so many smug grins happening from them. Cheney basically admitted guilt, and then stated that there's not a damn thing anybody can do about it.

Gorge rising doesn't quite cut it for me, GK.

The quiet revolution might need some fire sometime.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (27702) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Just gotta make a buck . . . just . . . gotta . . . even if it kills someone (s) . . Mammon . . I kneel........................

[-] 1 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 1 year ago

So reasonable. Hard limits. Sociopaths in th corporate world need barriers.

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[-] 0 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 1 year ago

Some say war inspires innovation. Indeed capitalism may inspire war, some think so.

Consider this. Some indigenous people's had capitalistic Democratic republics, and at the same time they had the Potlatch. At the potlatch, the way a man proved his power was to demonstrate how much he could give away. I would call that spiritual capitalism.

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[-] 1 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 1 year ago

Yea, but their society was capitalist in many ways, but also Matriarchal. The way of the matrix. Btw, the Indians were killed if they conducted Potlatch. That would be the elite capitalists afraid that the Natives would be understood and their society would survive.

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[-] 1 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 1 year ago

That was the Aztecs. The Mayans still had some ceremonial blood sacrifice however.

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

they were some crazy fucks. eating psychedelics and then going on murder sprees for the gods.