Forum Post: It's taking a long time. Let's start a new forum.
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 17, 2011, 5:25 p.m. EST by Chany
(20)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/home/who-are-we
The definite list of demands for next spring is too long a time. There is no logical reason given to why it will take this long. I can understand if it a reason is given for the long period of time, but no general movement to organize the meeting occurring.
I don't like the delegate idea because it destroys the entire idea of democracy this movement is pushing for. I like our current government setup of representation, but in terms of a movement like this, there needs to be a pure democracy. Also, there is no defined way on how these delegates will be chosen. Without structure, organizations fall, including this one.
I like one of the ideas presented earlier (sorry, can't find original post): we should create a new forum that has more structure than the current one and cuts down on flooding. Here's how it would work:
The first section is official announcements: recent decisions and important facts about OWS. It should also contain any official statements about the movements and the basic rules and guidelines of the forum.
The second section goes to ideas. These ideas can be things related to new laws, regulations, organization that our government needs, funding, etc. These ideas should be complete, detailed concrete laws and bills that offer solutions, not just banter. Ideas that generate positive or hotly debated comments, ratings, and views will move onto the next sections; the actual topic itself will be locked in a subfolder. Ideas that generate negative or no comments, ratings, and views will be locked and moved to a graveyard subfolder, separate from the one above. In order to decide what stays and what goes, moderators (I heard some people volunteer in one topic) will look at the top numerical positive and negative reviews and process them accordingly.
The next section is the voting system. This is where people will vote on whether an idea from the second section will become part of the official movement demands or not. The details of the voting process work as such: A week is given in total to the ideas at hand: two days to formulate the positive and negative sides, two days to formulate the official arguments of each side, and three days to read, discuss, and vote a yes or no. “Yes” ideas move to the official list of demands. “No” ideas move to a subsection waiting for a change in the bill. No change has to be made; it is simply an available option.
The next section is for personal ideas. This is for ideas that cannot be turned into a bill or are not detailed as such. For example, “I believe in less tax cuts for the rich” is not a bill; it contains no details, numbers, recommendations, or actual substance. Another is the “moderate party” thread: it’s okay to present an idea, but the government cannot pass a law forming a moderate party, so is of no use.
Of course, this is only a rough draft of the major ideas of the forum. It will contain many more sections such as an off-topic board and street protest board. There will be moderators held to a high standard and other forum-related things. Leave comments on how to improve system, I need it. You do not need to like everything, please just bump if you want to keep this thread forward.
We've got a new forum, built by users from here. http://www.TheMultitude.org . I like the voting section idea .
Finally, where should i post my voting idea?
Under "Site Business", then "Feedback".
Ahhhhhhh well that whole freedom of speech, every voice welcome thing didn't last long did it? :)
Freedom of speech is alive and well, if you leave your house and go to a public location once in a while.
Walk into a forum dedicated to an ideal, and you will indeed be subject to rules. One of which is not that opposition is unwelcome. Only trolls --
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet) : "In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion."
Oh good. So posting truth, facts and links to evidence relevant to the topic being discussed isn't trollish behavior. Some of us have no desire to provoke an emotional response at all. All I want to do is provoke learning and fact checking and critical thinking.
All you want to do is call people who disagree with you sheep. Well, um... nuh uh! YOU'RE a sheep! Yay look at me I'm making people learn by presenting my opinions in the way that is most likely to earn a good response. I'm not a troll! I'm a HERO!
I'm sorry...that feels awfully inflammatory, extraneous and off topic. If you were hoping it would provoke an emotional response from me, that makes you a troll by definition.
I would never hope for such a thing. I'm a hero, remember. Not a troll. If I say this enough despite my behavior, it proves something.
Edit:
Since I can't reply to your last post here I'll leave you with a final thought: I'm not a hero. I'm mocking troll behavior.
Your comments:
"Ahhhhhhh well that whole freedom of speech, every voice welcome thing didn't last long did it? :)"
"Already the sheep refuse to remain in the original pen"
These are not constructive remarks that respect an opponent. They are designed to inflame. I responded in kind to make a point. And that is all.
I believe that you are the one who defined both a "troll" and a "hero" here. And so far you've posted perfect examples of both of your definitions. Your behavior proves much more than you think mine has.
Hopefully this will be seen by the powers in charge. While many can argue on the specific ideals of this movement, I think all can agree that the current system is broken. In order to effect any change we have to throw the bums in Washington out. If you could get one idea across, it should be this. There are more people who do not vote than do. If you could pick any candidate to challenge the incumbent and then get all those disenfranchised voters to get behind that person. You have to do it locally, because the majority of voters think that there representative is good, while all the others are bad. Once the people in power realize they will not keep their jobs, if they do not start representing the majority, they will start to change things. What those changes will be, everyone has their ideas. But no change can be made without having representatives who are willing to listen. Some of you might remember when Jesse Ventura, a WWE wrestler was elected governor of Minnesota, when the electorate was fed up with the status quo. Proof of the power of the people.
My ideas on this topic:
Idea #1: Twitter-style policy/program proposals are published and rated by the audience (at least thumbs up / thumbs down). Could look like http://www.quirky.com/participate, with additional information and comments about each idea available with a clickthrough.
Idea #2: Develop and organize policies/programs through a wiki. We'd want to propel nuanced schools of thought about each issue, so it wouldn't be like wikipedia where there's just one page for each topic - we'd allow discrete policy/program versions as requested by contributors/managers. Each policy/program would have a self-selected community around it, and there could be the current proposal, implementation plans, public comments / discussion board, proposed edits, etc. To help the cream rise to the top, we could evaluate with: (1) crowdsourced ratings, (2) standardized analysis like cost-benefit, (3) recommendations of review board. The website should be designed to be optimal for contributors (e.g., collaborative technology, rights management, etc.) and visitors (e.g., organized and subcategorized and ranked so that all the good stuff is easy to find).
Already the sheep refuse to remain in the original pen. And they divide themselves seeking parameters they feel are more productive.
This is why socialism and communism, in any form, will never work. Everyone does not want the exact same things, or the exact same ways.
Translation : Stay here so we can keep trolling you.
The sheep can and will go wherever they choose to. But the wolves are much more threatening than the trolls.
That's true. Trolls do shake an awfully impotent fist at the grassroots troublemakers. We'll be off your lawn soon grampa don't worry.
Making trouble? That remains to be seen. Grassroots? Live in your delusion if you must My lawn? Not hardly Grandpa? Not even close. But when I do have grandchildren, I'm going to teach them critical thinking skills and logic.
That's good. Charity starts at home. Teach the mirror about respect for opponents in a debate. Then come back and see me.
You are the bastion of respect in a debate aren't you?
Why should they have any respect for an opponent in any debate whose arguments are built on logical fallacies and rhetoric? Respect is earned, just like everything else.
equazcion-If you were actually fond of using logic or wisdom we'd be in agreement. I promise.
I earned my respect. I'm the hero here. I've told you this already but you're just a sheep who refuses to see the wisdom of my immense logic.
Yeah, like conservatives are one unified block. Ever hear of something called the Tea Party. People in glass voting booths shouldn't throw stones.