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Forum Post: How Many of These Do You Abhor?

Posted 5 months ago on April 14, 2014, 1:12 p.m. EST by shoozTroll (17632)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

“We urge the repeal of federal campaign finance laws, and the immediate abolition of the despotic Federal Election Commission."

“We favor the abolition of Medicare and Medicaid programs.”

“We oppose any compulsory insurance or tax-supported plan to provide health services, including those which finance abortion services.”

“We also favor the deregulation of the medical insurance industry.”

“We favor the repeal of the fraudulent, virtually bankrupt, and increasingly oppressive Social Security system. Pending that repeal, participation in Social Security should be made voluntary.”

“We propose the abolition of the governmental Postal Service. The present system, in addition to being inefficient, encourages governmental surveillance of private correspondence. Pending abolition, we call for an end to the monopoly system and for allowing free competition in all aspects of postal service.”

“We oppose all personal and corporate income taxation, including capital gains taxes.”

“We support the eventual repeal of all taxation.”

“As an interim measure, all criminal and civil sanctions against tax evasion should be terminated immediately.”

“We support repeal of all law which impede the ability of any person to find employment, such as minimum wage laws.”

“We advocate the complete separation of education and State. Government schools lead to the indoctrination of children and interfere with the free choice of individuals. Government ownership, operation, regulation, and subsidy of schools and colleges should be ended"

“We condemn compulsory education laws … and we call for the immediate repeal of such laws.”

“We support the repeal of all taxes on the income or property of private schools, whether profit or non-profit.”

“We support the abolition of the Environmental Protection Agency.”

“We support abolition of the Department of Energy.”

“We call for the dissolution of all government agencies concerned with transportation, including the Department of Transportation.”

“We demand the return of America's railroad system to private ownership. We call for the privatization of the public roads and national highway system.”

“We specifically oppose laws requiring an individual to buy or use so-called "self-protection" equipment such as safety belts, air bags, or crash helmets.”

“We advocate the abolition of the Federal Aviation Administration.”

“We advocate the abolition of the Food and Drug Administration.”

“We support an end to all subsidies for child-bearing built into our present laws, including all welfare plans and the provision of tax-supported services for children.”

“We oppose all government welfare, relief projects, and ‘aid to the poor’ programs. All these government programs are privacy-invading, paternalistic, demeaning, and inefficient. The proper source of help for such persons is the voluntary efforts of private groups and individuals."

“We call for the privatization of the inland waterways, and of the distribution system that brings water to industry, agriculture and households.”

“We call for the repeal of the Occupational Safety and Health Act.”

“We call for the abolition of the Consumer Product Safety Commission.”

“We support the repeal of all state usury laws.”

Moreover, how many of these have happened, or are in process in your State.

240 Comments

240 Comments


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[-] 3 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 4 months ago

not even close

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[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 4 months ago

Quite a fucked up mess of BS - Hey?

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 months ago

Bernie Sanders provided this list of the libe(R)tarian party platform, circa 1980, the year David Koch ran for VP.

It's amazing how many of these items are being promoted today, if not already enacted.

[-] 3 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 4 months ago

ain't nothing about property and drone assassination in it

nothing about providing healthcare as opposed to selling insurance

ain't nothing about dealing with the greater imbalance of ownership and money which is become more and more arbitrary by the day

ain't nothing about updating an antiquated the system of governance

ain't nothing about the US be the top weapons seller to the world

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[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 4 months ago

The campaign of the privileged class to control the world - marches on - as throughout all of history. Problem with "this" go around - "is" - that those privileged assholes "now" have the ability ( and apparent goal ) to destroy the world.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 months ago

I will be providing items from the list, in threads where appropriate.

most of these, are today being promoted by ALEC.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 4 months ago

most of these, are today being promoted by ALEC.

OH I Know - and wallstreet and the American Petroleum Institute and CATO and Charlie and Davie and and and

Such a visibly sick group of institutions as well as individuals.

Why are so many people blind to these facts? No don't answer - just a minor rant.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 months ago

Because they are overwhelming, and highly propanadized, to create a feeling of disbelief.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 4 months ago

Monied to spend countless millions ( Billions ? ) on mainstream brainwashing umm propaganda ummm misinformation ummm commercials ummm ... wait a mo - "YES" = all of the above ( same thing after all ).

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 months ago

Welcome to the Americans for Prosperity!

At least they're founders/supporters are getting sued once in a while.

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/04/30/3432796/koch-getting-sued/

Here in Detroit, all they did was move it downriver, where most of it's dust would blow out over Lake Eire.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 4 months ago

Out of sight - out of mine - um - mind - well both.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 months ago

Over the Falls and out sea, where no one knows, but you and me.

hey??!!

what happened to all the fish?

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 4 months ago

What are those? Thought that was just a fast food gimmick.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 months ago

Welp. Those do taste like they were grown in factory somewhere.

If there's any real ones left, at least they will have a lot more water to swim in.

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/05/05/3433981/antarctic-melting-sea-levels/

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 4 months ago

Huh - well I'm outta here - on a related errand - thinking about getting a movie = The Devastation of Smog

I think it is a documentary about air pollution ( wonder if it contains footage of prolonged inversions over Salt Lake City ) - Man that air can get thick nasty and deadly.

Hold on - What ? the devastation of Smaug you say? Is that the new hip term for air pollution? No? "What?" Wait - you mean it is not a pollution documentary? Figures - I "was" wondering about the connection to Hobbits.

ummm Never Mind

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 months ago

That's correct.

It's a new report from FLAKESnews.

Did liberal Hobbits cause global warming?

You decide.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 4 months ago

HEY - could it still have close symbolic meaning? The Dragon = Penultimate Greed running amok? Huh - is the rumor true? Did they get a real life comparison to play the Dragon? Davie or Charlie or perhaps even Halliburton himself = Dickie C ? Someone from the top end of wallstreet? A conglomeration of all of the above - and then some?

Huh was Gandalf meant to represent Bernie Sanders? If only - Hey? THOU SHALL NOT PASS !!!!!!!!

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[-] 2 points by JGriff99mph (507) 5 months ago

You guys are really pushing the pro Dems, partisan politics hard these days.

I applaud you for your consistent efforts. I don't really think this is the place for it, its a bit deeper than that, but your determination is impressive.

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[-] 1 points by nazihunter (215) 5 months ago

What is it the place for?

[-] 1 points by JGriff99mph (507) 5 months ago

not that

[-] 2 points by nazihunter (215) 5 months ago

And they did this just prior to a major general election by a stinkin' conservative court and you wanna blame Obama? Take issue with the guy when he's holding all the cards and still does nothing.

[-] 2 points by nazihunter (215) 5 months ago

I think of myself as a progressive more than a democrat or a liberal. As a progressive, I can't accept big oil anymore. Even if we wanted to get off it, it would take decades. I'm also against fracking and coal mining. None of it is necessary. I think the eco-system is n grave danger. Global markets do more for cheap labor that anything else. Yet we're forced to cling to it because of the "old" money of the republican party. And they buy more and more of it everyday. Whatever we can do to slow them down, preferably stop them, is in all our best interests. You read of the case of the guy who was republican and changed to democrat after fracking close to his home pretty much made it useless? Before then, it was pretty much a partisan thing for that guy until reality struck. I'm not looking to the left or thee right, only what's going on in real time and killing us all quick. ALL republicans voted to allow banks to use derivatives again. ALL republican justices voted big business to fund elections all they want. If it were the dems doing it, I'd vote republican. They're issues for which the writing's on the wall. You fail to do something, we go further downhill. Now if ows has a better solution, by all means, let me hear it. Feeding a poor guy in the hood isn't gonna cut it. We'll all be poor guys in the hood soon. Then, further downhill from there. Time to make a choice. Standing on principle now, alone will crush ows. These big businesses think ows is a joke. Doing nothing will only make them laugh harder. If the dems had won as much as the pugs and had a majority in the House and Senate for more than a couple years, and didn't reverse some of this shit, I'd be totally with you. Lastly, are you gonna tell me Obama is any where near as bad as the previous clowns? You'd' better go back and review the first eight years of the decade. Gas prices doubled, which caused everything else to go up with it. Wars and more wars. Patriot Act, mass surveillance Guantanamo, It's a bit ridiculous to take aim at Obama without looking at who started the mess and put it in motion. They're still on Fox saying they haven't gone far enough. You can't change things until you have a leg up. How to get there?

[-] 0 points by grapes (3015) 5 months ago

The clowns should definitely include the ones in charge for the eight years before your eight years. World Trade Center was bombed in 1993 shortly after Bill Clinton was sworn into office. USS Cole was suicide-attacked in October 2000, shortly before Clinton administration left office, nearly one year before 911 attack in 2001 during W's administration which was acting like Sargent Schultz ("I see nothing! I hear nothing!").

As the Commander-in-Chief of the most capable military force on our planet (which had recently incinerated the elite Iraqi Republican Guards in the "Hundred-Hour War" and liberated Kuwait) and knowing about plots to fly airliner into the Eiffel Tower and coordinated attacks on multiple airliners in the Pacific, were two full terms in office enough for Bill Clinton to have done something about Al Qaeda and the looming 911 attack?

The Republicans were not innocent, either, but that is another sordid tale for another day. There are far more than enough blame to spread around for both major parties. It did not help to have the semen stain on the blue dress while trying to command a response to the declaration (in 1998 on U.S. TV) and acts of war by al-Qaeda. The Republicans would have surely claimed Clinton generating a distraction from the "other-woman" cases which would not have even started if not for the "Whitewater Scandal" investigation, ultimately powered by the "Contract with America" which is eerily in tune with many abhorrences listed above in the posting.

[-] 1 points by nazihunter (215) 5 months ago

The Republicans are not innocent(????) That's an understatement if I every heard one.What your suggesting is completely insane-which is, it appears, the poor Bush jr.'s troubles started because Clinton didn't do enough? You say potato and I say bullshit. The Monica shit showed us all why we should hate Republicans. They wasted billions and billions of dollars going after Clinton while their fearless leader was cheating on his wife, who had cancer, with an intern? Then when we ask him why he put his foot in his mouth, he's says it was because Clinton lied. How many years, money and time did this hypocrite waste? Then he ran for president and got all pissed off when someone asks him about it? Really? Did he lie? So lying was an impeachable offense but the guy who did the same damned thing wanted the office. I did I say the same thing? No, he did much worse. Put yourself in his wife's place. BUT! The Bible Belt state of Georgia votes for him overwhelmingly. When I found out about it, I threw up, literally. It's was Clinton term but the pugs were clearly in control. Don't you think that Bush sr.'s guys were still waiting in the wings, like they did with Reagan, Nixon, Ford to right back into office with jr. ? Did you look at how high the military budget went with DHS? That's your big government party, lying their ass. Isn't that an impeachable offense? But far worse, he did it all on credit with our enemies and didn't pay a cent back during his whole term. The Cole is damage to one ship. You want to compare that to the military graveyard of tanks, planes, helicopters, humvees, armaments, drones, etc., etc.miles long. Verified and absolute. Then the financial crisis-and subsequent bailout. Hey, here's a joke, 'Those weapon's of mass destruction gotta be somewhere!' And his buddies thought that was funny? And I love all the plots Bush stopped. We still have his Patriot Act. What we don't have is any verification of ANY of these plots. How could the Cole have been stopped? Or the trade tower attack? How could Clinton know what the Republicans were planning to do to their own country?? How? And you're comparing this to what the warmongers did?? Rather than bait your hook further, justify how Clinton's record is worse than his successors. There was a publication called Black Book back in the early 90s that foretold of the security state. You see, it wasn't a prediction. They were planning it!

[-] 2 points by grapes (3015) 5 months ago

The attempted attack plot in January 2000 of the USS the Sullivans should have served as a warning that could have averted the USS Cole bombing in October 2000.

[-] 2 points by grapes (3015) 5 months ago

It is not the first time that I was accused of "understatement." Thank you for getting out some of the "sordid tale" about the Other cheater, who was two heartbeats away from assuming the Presidency. I saw too much and got tired.

All ye parents of young daughters (or sons, too?), send them not as interns into the dens of the "lions." For even the EEOC is structurally under the paws of or the tail-swipe immunity by these sexually predatory "lions."

Romans 11:8,9 is apt for this occasion of Easter. W was Sargent Schultz in Chief. "ALL have fallen short of the glory of God." I ask my people, the U.S. populace: How did lying become a job requirement for political offices and why sexual predators came to occupy our most powerful posts? Of course, this problem disrespects borders and exists at the international monetary and political levels, too.

[-] 1 points by nazihunter (215) 5 months ago

Yes, I hear you. I get tired of the arguments. The actual doing is much more pleasurable. I am totally in concert with what you're all saying because I was saying it myself. You know, I was saying things like the lesser of two evils is still evil. A vote either way won't make a difference and so forth. That was in 2000 when everybody was fighting over Fla. and Bush stealing the election. But, it's like getting a huge cut across the capillaries. Doing nothing is not an option. I don't know if I'm saying it right. Pondering the value of life isn't a great thing to do when you're bleeding to death. You need the stitches first. Then you have more time to ponder,

[-] 1 points by grapes (3015) 5 months ago

I can learn needlework using my semi-conscious patient. Being a novice, my every stitch takes a clumsy long time so it hurts but in due time, the bleeding will hopefully abate and my patient shall recover.

[-] 1 points by nazihunter (215) 5 months ago

If you wanna fight with everyone in the operating room, the patient's as good as dead.

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[-] 2 points by grapes (3015) 4 months ago

I always like having hypotheses to check out such as which lab(s) may have the weaponizing capability for anthrax. I thought that you may know something but it is fine if you do not offer a working hypothesis because I can be mistaken for yet another time. If you do not throw me a bone, I can still sniff around in the global dump.

As for the railroad, I must have taken it to be the Underground Railroad. All who crave Freedom must get Faith first to hop on, in spite of death threats.

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[-] 1 points by JGriff99mph (507) 5 months ago

Last I checked- and feel free to deny any of this- you support:

  • The wars
  • The bailouts
  • Politicians who take multinational corporate and ALEC cash
  • Centralized Power

Ya, I'm the rightie.... Riiiiiiiiigggggghhhhhhhhtttttt............

Keep posting, glad this site is providing you with an income stream.

In a way, because your rampant stupidity is so hard for me to ignore, I guess Im actually helping to pay your bills too. Youre welcome.

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[-] 3 points by JGriff99mph (507) 5 months ago

Sorry to break it to you there states right lover, but power centralized outside of the immediate community usually leads to bad things.

Look at Tallahassee, or Albany.

Out of sight outta mind type of thing. On both the people's part and the politicians.

Endorsing people who "claim" to want money out of politics and don't have the moral compass to stick to it, well, talk about fuckin stupid move .

Almost as stupid as using 9/11 as an excuse to take over Afghanistand while ignoring the Saudis. But I guess thats prob not the narrative on Peacock Central or Fox, so be it.

Let me guess, you supported the Afghan surge, but not the Iraqi one, and you are now fine with bombing villiages in 6 different countries since our 08 campaign to END THE WARS.

Sell outs abound. You should run. You'd fit right in.

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[-] 1 points by JGriff99mph (507) 5 months ago

"here that's my vote, at work mutherfuker GOBAMA!! you stupid mutherfuker"

Once again, redeeming yourself. Keep it up.

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[-] 2 points by JGriff99mph (507) 5 months ago

"with conservative scumbags crawling out from under their rocks thousands of miles away to oppose any action at all."

So deny them the ability to do so. That would require you stop doing just about everything you do now. You don't even realize you are endorsing the very things you claim to be against.

[-] 1 points by flip (6812) 5 months ago

so you answered two of his charges and did a nice job on the centralized power issue. as to bush and Afghanistan - you are way off base - just a small piece from noam on your opinion - The issue of “just war” should not be confused with a wholly different question: Should the perpetrators of the atrocities of September 11 be punished for their crimes—“crimes against humanity,” as they were called by Robert Fisk, Mary Robinson, and others. On this there is virtually unanimous agreement—though, notoriously, the principles do not extend to the agents of even far worse crimes who are protected by power and wealth. The question is how to proceed. The approach favored by Afghans who were ignored had considerable support in much of the world. Many in the South would surely have endorsed the recommendations of the UN representative of the Arab Women’s Solidarity Association: “providing the Taliban with evidence (as it has requested) that links bin Laden to the September 11 attacks, employing diplomatic pressures to extradite him, and prosecuting terrorists through international tribunals,” and generally adhering to international law, following precedents that exist even in much more severe cases of international terrorism. Adherence to international law had scattered support in the West as well, including the preeminent Anglo-American military historian Michael Howard, who delivered a “scathing attack” on the bombardment, calling instead for an international “police operation” and international court rather than “trying to eradicate cancer cells with a blow torch.” Washington’s refusal to call for extradition of the suspected criminals, or to provide the evidence that was requested, was entirely open, and generally approved. Its own refusal to extradite criminals remains effectively secret, however. There has been debate over whether U.S. military actions in Afghanistan were authorized under ambiguous Security Council resolutions, but it avoids the central issue: Washington plainly did not want Security Council authorization, which it surely could have obtained, clearly and unambiguously. Since it lost its virtual monopoly over UN decisions, the U.S. has been far in the lead in vetoes, Britain second, France a distant third, but none of these powers would have opposed a U.S.-sponsored resolution. Nor would Russia or China, eager to gain U.S. authorization for their own atrocities and repression (in Chechnya and western China, particularly). But Washington insisted on not obtaining Security Council authorization, which would entail that there is some higher authority to which it should defer. Systems of power resist that principle if they are strong enough to do so. There is even a name for that stance in the literature of diplomacy and international affairs scholarship: establishing “credibility,” a justification commonly offered for the threat or use of force. While understandable, and conventional, that stance also has lessons concerning the likely future, even more so because of the elite support that it receives, openly or indirectly

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[-] 1 points by grapes (3015) 5 months ago

Somebody ALWAYS knows. Ask the interns who know the most intimate details. You do need to watch out for being run over by Andy Warwhore's unicorn herd, though.

Why do you think that Sandy Berger, Clinton administration's National Security Advisor, absconded multiple copies of the same classified material from the National Archive? Isn't it just censorship by "borrowing" privilege to block any sunlight on culpability leading to 911 and beyond?

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[-] 0 points by grapes (3015) 5 months ago

This is the fuk: Berger plea. One buddy I had who was often in foggy postcoital bliss used the expression, "What the fuk? I fuk'd my brain out," and meant it literally. It can cut multiple ways, brain and/or bliss.

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[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (20843) 5 months ago

No, I didn't draw the wrong conclusion there.

https://occupywallst.org/forum/in-defence-of-the-broad-church-of-socialism-from-t/#comment-1029315

Chomsky is right in what he says about the right wing, that is so obvious. And Wolff is also right in what he says about the weakening of the true left in this country. And, with no organization of the left, we're left with the moderates, who are well organized but whose interests are more with corporations and the wealthy than with the masses of people who make up this country. If the moderates' interests and support lay with the people, would we be in this mess? this worsening mess?

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[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (20843) 5 months ago

This is a roundabout argument that goes nowhere. I don't really care whether the Dems are organized or not, although of course, they are. It's not the issue. The issue is that they don't work hard enough for the people. Their interests lay with the wealthy and corporations. They do not fight for the working person, for the poor, for the down and out. They pretend that they do, but they don't really. Look at their record. Look at where we are today. Why would we want to continue on this road?

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[-] 7 points by beautifulworld (20843) 4 months ago

I disagree that OWS is obstructionist. OWS pushes the envelope and one of the groups it pushes is Democrats. You have to counter extreme with extreme and not be shy about it. You can't come to the boxing match with only one glove on, which is exactly what the Dems have done for years. We have to fight back and hard. For example: They (right wing assholes) want to eliminate the Department of F'ing Education. Then we want FREE f'ing public education for all, through to the college level. We have to push back hard. That's the point I'm trying to make, though maybe I'm not making it well.

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[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (20843) 5 months ago

"dems are not organized at all...."

No offense, but that is silly. And they have total party discipline when it comes to their own survival, and that means, same as their Republican counterparts, taking handouts from corporations.

Dems play the game, sadly, and that is why we need a stronger left. To push them to work for the people instead of their own self-aggrandizement.

[-] 4 points by JGriff99mph (507) 5 months ago

I worked the 08 Obomber campaign, tons of resources and tons of momentum. People willing to help out all over. Best online campaign ever, still to date.

What did it get us? A big pile of shit. Not a pile that is sort of ok, maybe not quite there. A pile that is absolutely putrid.

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (20843) 5 months ago

Exactly. Nothing. Absolutely nothing for the people except for some crumbs, in my mind, just to keep them quiet. And, when you think of how Occupy was smashed with a Democratic president in office, really makes you wonder, no? Who exactly do the Democrats stand for? I know who they say they stand for. But, who do they really stand for?

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[-] 4 points by JGriff99mph (507) 5 months ago

Actually they take a lot of ALEC money, being that ALEC is a group made up of corporate pillagers who simply created a lobbying platform and gave a name to it.

Dems don't push their legislation. They just take the cash out the backfoor, more so than Republicans in many cases.

Its just that Dem supporters are too fuckin stupid to notice because its not right in front of their face:

https://occupywallst.org/forum/alec-board-members/

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (20843) 5 months ago

So, it's okay for the right to have their extreme, but you don't want one for the left. You just want the moderates, and kill the far left, you think the left gets in the way of moderates. Makes no sense to me, sorry.

If moderates are so easily swayed, then wouldn't it make sense to foster a strong true left to pull them in the direction of the people? Of course ALEC exists, but so could a labor movement to counteract it. That is what is missing. A counterpart to the friggin' right wing nutters in this country. Oh well, I know this won't get through to you or ZD, and that you disagree with me, but it's my opinion.

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[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (20843) 5 months ago

Really? The party that has the Presidency, the most powerful man in the free world, lol, is not well organized? You are the one that lacks analytical skills. Everything for you is black and white and you are too stupid to see how well organized the "moderates" are and how self-aggrandizing and elitist they are as they leave the masses to pick up the crumbs they have left behind.

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[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (20843) 4 months ago

Starting? Are you kidding me? I've been hashing it out with libertarians here since day one. In fact, some libertarians, I would even go as far as to argue that many libertarians, really have a very weak understanding of Austrian economics which is really the underpinning philosophy to libertarianism.

Therefore, most do not even understand the consequences of the crap that they subscribe to. It is almost a cult and if you talk to some of these people you can see that they are on an intellectual journey through a complex web of politics and economics that they do not understand but where they are trying to find answers to a society that has left them wholly unsatisfied.

Educating them is the best thing we can do because the people at the helm of libertarianism will never tell them what libertarianism really means for the masses.

And, if you really need to know I do no think any of those items have been enacted to any degree in my State. In fact, the opposite on some of those items is true.

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[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (20843) 4 months ago

You are unbelievably rude. That's all I have to say to you. Please stop replying to me.

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[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (20843) 5 months ago

Why yes sir there sure is a very nasty right wing in this country. But does that give the moderates a pass to fail the masses at every turn? I am looking for a strong left to counteract that bull shit right wing behavior. The status quo, moderate, Democratic Party is not the answer, though. The Dems are not the panacea. They have proven that. They've been around for decades and things have only gotten worse. If they are at all left leaning, then strengthening the left will strengthen them. You should be for that.

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[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 4 months ago

Re. your 'Libertarianism' back in the day ... what first attracted you to that ?

fiat lux ...

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[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 4 months ago

Challenge libertarians to this : 'Ask your fearless leaders, Lew Rockwell, the Pauls, the Kochs, those at the Cato Institute and Heritage Foundation, etc., this question' :

  • "If you want to have a truly libertarian economic society, would you be willing to level out all of the wealth in America before doing so as this would be the only fair way to institute that economic system with everyone on a level playing field ?"

The answer would be a resounding no, of course, because the leaders of libertarianism, the ones who really would benefit from a society with zero regulations on a free-wheeling capitalist society are the ones who already own the capital !

These people are not stupid. They know damn well that they will start out the race ahead of the masses because they have the capital and they will wipe the masses up off the floor. So, what do they do ? They pull regular people in with sexy stuff like : "You will be free to have as many guns as you want." ; "You can smoke pot and do drugs if you want." ; "You won't have to send your kids to school if you don't want to." etc. etc. And, regular people buy into this social crap that they spew. They buy into it because they feel so oppressed in the first place working at jobs that pay barely enough to survive that any kind of liberty sounds freaking great.

But, what the regular people don't get is that that is just a way to pull them in, what true libertarians are really after is control of the economy. They want to own every single one of us. And, in a free-wheeling unregulated capitalist economy, that is exactly what we will have. Most of the regular people following that ideology just don't get this. And, it is very important that we educate people to understand how deleterious an unregulated capitalist system would be.

Have you any idea whose words those are ?! Like many of those left here, I ''support'' bw ... so does that make me a ''troll'' too ?!! She responded to you with grace, intelligence and patience when you've tried to bully, hector and paint her into some b-s corner and now you look to goad her with baseless projections of your own self-referential personality and patronising blow-hardery - not to mention .. your 'rudeness' !!!

I'll bet that you only looked at your own forum-posts to see if she replied there because anyone who has been here longer than 2 weeks knows how and what she says about 'Libertarianism'. It is one of her very unique features that she doesn't make forum-posts but restricts herself to only commentary and replies.

You should learn how to search the archives & here's a clue for you ; the 'Libertarian Troll Wars', were at their height from Oct.'11 to Feb.'12 but have been going on in some form or fashion since OWS' get-go.

Readers (because there are many more of those than us posters) and you - should re-read some of the exchanges just on this thread & take note of some of your tone & see how she's responded to you here.

Hectoring long established Forum Occupiers is NOT cool. Reread your comments here, then go look up ''self-aggrandizement'' as you look past your now disgust and disdain at those you previously had affinity with - and get over yourself. Stop being such an oaf & consider both 'The Powell Memo' & the following :

et temet nosce ...

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[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 4 months ago

As you voted RepubliCon in your twenties (or was it thirties ?) & as you are now barking more for the DemoCraps these days, are you proof positive of the relative interchangability of these two within the - 'Binary Manichaean Construct of US Polytricks' ? Or is that too 'trite and insubstantial' to ask of you ?

ad iudicium ...

[-] 1 points by grapes (3015) 5 months ago

Yes, I concur that Snowden or the Pulitzer-Prize winning journalists can be of help here but the information might have been out of reach of even Snowden (whose trawling might have been too late to catch the culpables in action). There is great incentive that the U.S. wants to keep this longer as a secret for political purposes so only countries like Russia may be of help here because Snowden might have or have not brought the information to Russia. Some former state department people may also be of help. Note the evaluation about Pakistan. Has the U.S. been fighting the wrong war and aiding the double-dealers all these years?

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[-] 3 points by grapes (3015) 5 months ago

The weaponized anthrax came from Greendale Elementary School, originating address being written on the envelope plainly in capitalized letters. Even the ancient Romans knew and used the material for weaponizing anthrax but I have vested interest in not getting people killed en masse so zip.

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[-] 2 points by grapes (3015) 5 months ago

Yes, this anthrax stuff is still on my mind. That is why I want a no-fly zone for drones over U.S. population centers. The elites salivate over drone manufacturing and deployment but it can become a Pandora's Box. Let us say there be a few thousands or tens of thousands of drones per city flying over Washington, New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Philadelphia, etc. Can someone tell me if any one of them and which one is spreading anthrax spores from the air? Deafening silence, right? Drones can have minuscule radar cross sections and hide behind tall buildings. Besides, they could be made of radar-beam transparent or stealth materials.

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[-] 2 points by grapes (3015) 5 months ago

Which lab are you thinking about that may have the weaponizing capability and where is it? It is in humanity's common interest to put this technology under tight control.

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[-] 0 points by JGriff99mph (507) 5 months ago

Its very clear. They suck. Can't stand em.

Thing is, you are getting that now as you speak from the ones you think support all of that, its just being done without you noticing.

Take, for instance, the FDA. Whats the difference between someone saying they dont want it, and another saying Monsanto should run it?

Screwed either way.

You guys always only report half the story, then cluck at each other under the thread for hours on end.

Go and get married already.

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[-] -1 points by JGriff99mph (507) 5 months ago

" and if Hillary plans to run for President then she must prepare to answer questions both regarding past involvement and future resolution to this issue "

Who mentioned the upcoming war monger/pro Wall St candidate of 2016?

Where did that come from? And why after years in the state department and being an establishment figure, would we even humor this at this point?

What on earth is going on!!!!!!! :)

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[-] 1 points by JGriff99mph (507) 5 months ago

Actually, I compiled an entire list of ALEC board members and their corporate donations, where they go to, and who is taking them.

https://occupywallst.org/forum/alec-board-members/

I think you just don't like that its a black and white issue, that perhaps in your hate for one you might realize the ones you vote for are taking the same freakin money?

Truth sucks dude.

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[-] 2 points by JGriff99mph (507) 5 months ago

Useless huh?

People accepting money from the corporations you claim to hate and blame for everything wrong is bullshit?

The very politicians you openly endorse accepting ALEC money... Thats bullshit?

Tie it in? Now you are so dumb you need someone to "tie in" with campaign donations with fucked up actions?

Grow up and get a clue. Not even you can possibly be that dumb.

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[-] 1 points by JGriff99mph (507) 5 months ago

This is why moderators on political sites shouldnt be interacting with everyone else. It turns into a popularity competition.

Like the dog gets to endorse bailouts, wars, and openly endorse people accepting oil money in record numbers, but someone like me who actually doesnt support that stuff, and actually does shit in the area with tons of groups, and knows most all of the local activists (no not the politicians) gets shit on CONSTANTLY.

And my favorite: Getting banned for arguing with a moderator who shouldnt be posting on here to begin with and then ridiculed for having to go get another name.

Thats the best. Argue with the wrong little club, get shit on, and then get ridiculed for being shit on by the little popular clic all over again.

God I hate hypocrites. And Im not talking about political. I'm talking about how people live their lives.

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[-] 1 points by JGriff99mph (507) 5 months ago

Its not up to you to be some grand inquisitor, is it?

Again, further proof on why moderators on the internet shouldnt be engaging in the dialogue.

This from the admitted former libertarian, now prancing around the internet demanding everyone else explain why people- LIKE HIM/HER- would want that.

Talk about a double speak coward.

Demanding answers to things that were formerly endorsed. What a fraud.

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[-] 1 points by JGriff99mph (507) 5 months ago

"Grow the fuck up yourself and do the list. My God you're sick. Call me dumb again and you WILL be changing your puppet ass name again. Nice to see you return to you old insulting, bullying self. Too many bar fights last night? Like i said, if you can't tie in the list, it just proves what a bullshitter you've been all along."

Fighting insults with insults? Glad to see you take the high road.

This is why people fuckin hate power. Two people debating and it gets a ugly, but one can insult and the other can simply remove them.

DOWN WITH CORRUPTION. DOWN WITH DOUBLE SPEAK.

DOWN WITH FAVORITES. DOWN WITH HYPOCRISY.

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[-] 1 points by JGriff99mph (507) 5 months ago

"You have the POWER of your puppets. I don't go that low."

No you just allow a couple select people to say the most disgusting things on the planet but then ban anyone who debates you.

Nice job as usual.

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[-] 3 points by granada (38) 5 months ago

What's worse, being"a repetitive, shameless puppet," OR someone who put him in that position by being a "repetitive, shameless...", conniving neocon moderator on an Occupy forum?

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[-] 0 points by JGriff99mph (507) 5 months ago

Right, you can call people faggots and call Sawant a "silly bitch" and claim for bailouts and wars, etc etc etc.

Post Koch Sucker and other disgusting phrases about 100 times a week, and still get a pass.

The redneck conservative prick is you, sorry to tell you. Perhaps you have just not changed with the times and dont realize it.

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[-] 1 points by JGriff99mph (507) 5 months ago

No. You called Sawant that because of, well... I'm not sure what your life has been like, but usually that kind of speak is reserved for people that others dont like on the opposite of their political gods- Palin or Pelosi for example.

But Sawant is a very liberal person, someone you might relate to, and yet there you are, openly stating you regard her as "a silly bitch".

On the main OWS site. Nice job as usual making eveyone look like shit as usual moron.

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[-] 1 points by JGriff99mph (507) 5 months ago

"I got him to actually start thinking about her, in a positive fashion."

This is all the proof I need for I've been saying for years here.

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[-] 2 points by JGriff99mph (507) 5 months ago

Quote monkey? Wow, you two are getting to be beyond embarrassing.

So now taking people's own words to show they are full of shit is not allowed? Quotes from Bernie are fine. but quotes from your little friend... that shit is no good?

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[-] 0 points by JGriff99mph (507) 5 months ago

Duh, are you always the last to find these things out?

Why don't you ask your Nazi friend why it's such a power hungry freak that cant handle anything. Just on the internet, lord only knows how it acts in public.

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[-] 0 points by JGriff99mph (507) 5 months ago

Dude, you are the one that used to be a fuckin card holding member of their party- literally worshipping the Koch brothers....

You tell me?

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[-] -1 points by JGriff99mph (507) 5 months ago

Are you denying you used to be a libertarian?

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[-] -1 points by JGriff99mph (507) 5 months ago

"Oh, for the "record", I said I was a reformed libertarian. And then I learned to truth."

What brought you to this conclusion?

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[-] 0 points by JGriff99mph (507) 5 months ago

"Oh, for the "record", I said I was a reformed libertarian. And then I learned to truth."

What brought you to this conclusion?

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[-] -1 points by JGriff99mph (507) 5 months ago

If you are constantly going to be accusing others of supporting this stuff, a disclaimer on your own beliefs from years past might help.

Ya know, let everyone know where the grand accuser is coming from, right?

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[-] -1 points by JGriff99mph (507) 5 months ago

Says the two old goats on the internet. Classic.

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[-] 1 points by JGriff99mph (507) 5 months ago

What was the lie?

75% of the comments on this post are from the two of you:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/same-same-not-so-fast/

Desperate to prove the Dems are the answer is what it seems to me. I'm not entitled to my opinion while your friend marches around posting "Koch Suckers" 24/7?

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[-] -1 points by JGriff99mph (507) 5 months ago

Convince you? The proof is all around you, especially in a manufacturing hub like detroit.

You don't need to believe anything on the internet, you only need to look out the window and see the reality.

How about your 90-8 vote on repealing Glass Steagall and crushing an entire country for their own financial gain?

Would that be an acceptable example for you, shoes?

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[-] -1 points by JGriff99mph (507) 5 months ago

Ya, Scott sucks. So did Kilpatrick. More of the same.

Glad to see you think that Glass Steagall vote was no biggie. Only pushed our entire system off the cliff, for their gain.

Here's another vote for you to blow off:

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=103&session=1&vote=00389#position

Those that voted NO: 13 Dems, 13 Reps... Exactly the same!! Oh my!

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[-] 0 points by JGriff99mph (507) 5 months ago

"I've asked you to prove your bullshit before. You never did."

Thats what I do, and everyone else here, does on a daily basis, and yet here you are, clinging to some nonsense like, well, I'll just leave it at this:

Afghan War Vote: 98-2

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=107&session=1&vote=00281

Another meaningless vote? Better not disrupt the Saudis, eh?

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[-] 1 points by JGriff99mph (507) 5 months ago

Didnt think you'd comment on another vote that shows what a horrific bunch the DEMS and the REPS are.

HEres one on extending the Bush cuts:

44 Dems, 37 Reps, all saying AYE. Crap duopoly garbage you back.

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[-] 0 points by JGriff99mph (507) 5 months ago

"It doesn't prove what you are saying. It's a simple vote, with no explanation."

..........................

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[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 months ago

There are 'Bat Shit Crazy Conservatives' & then there are 'conservatives' ; there are also 'Conservative Democrats' & then there are ''more conservative than your average liberal'' Democrats too !!! And, what ''politically centrist government'' are you talking about above btw ?!! Let's all look at who else has been ''bashing'' poor li'l Israel recently, shall we ?!

Are those ''conservative'' enough sources for you ? What is it all coming to d'you think - when the likes of Zbigniew Brezezinski etc. are now exasperated into seeing and speaking elemental truths ? Go on - affect a huge fit of apoplexy for us now why don't you - but can you also manage a cogent response ?!

verum ex absurdo ...

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[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 months ago

John Hagee is a name that I'm familiar with & you are right about 'Ayn' Paul too. Ergo, on this matter ...

fiat lux et fiat pax ...

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[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 months ago

I'll take that branch & double down on it, as - despite our fractious differences - I'll still accept that you have The 99% @ <3 ultimately. I don't have time for that whole 'HF' video now but in support, I append :

respice, adspice, prospice ...

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[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 4 months ago

AGW is one of the few things we seem to be able to agree on but as you claim to have some affiliation to The 99% - at least in The U$A ... then maybe you can either explain what is wrong with my banned forum-post &/or have it 'unbanned'. Telling me that you will not second guess the other mod is not enuf.

Thomas Piketty is causing much annoyance to The 0.01% Parasite Class and to their '1% lackeys' in the MSM and elsewhere, so WhyTF would it be banned here ?!!! Are we the subject of mere whim and the capricious prejudice of our own 1% - here on this forum ?!! What say you about this matter now ?!

fiat lux ...

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[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 4 months ago

A whiny, sad and self-piteous response that shows a distinct lack of spine too !!! The only ''soap opera'' is the one you, yourself have both scripted and taken the major staring role in !! I'll help you with nothing because I don't do ''stooge'' or suck up to jart or distract from The 99% Struggle (if I can help it lol) - but a word of unsolicited advice - try to reign in your 'Dog' before he too goes the way of GF and burns out !

veritas vos liberabit ...

EDIT : Re. below - Clearly you believe that anyone who doesn't agree with you is a ''troll' somehow, lolol.

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[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 months ago

Of course you don't ! Are you also ''seriously'' impervious to the facts ?!!

Now in all fairness dare you even read that - never mind reply about it ?!

e tenebris, lux ...

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[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 months ago

Dolt !!! Why don't you say what you mean ?!! We have already been through this as I recall (see 2nd link below) - but IF you want another slap upside the head again, I'll oblige you later ! As I'm busy now these links will have to do .. BUT no swearing and losing the plot in reply, ok ?

fiat lux et fiat pax ...

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[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 months ago

Pat Buchanan is a 'Conservative' and I would have thought that a small 'c', 'conservative' like you (tho' of course that is a relative and subjective term and can disguise a myriad political positions) .. would have understood some of what he is all about !!!

What do you think that PB has to do with me ffs & can I please assure you that PB's positions on many matters will be much closer to yours than mine ?!!

Is this because I recently used an anti-war article of his ?!

When it comes to rational anti-war pieces ... it is fair and reasonable to try use any and all sources and even consistently broken clocks like PB can chime correctly sometimes, so I'll append it here again for you and others to judge what was said :

Do yourself a favour and read this short piece and ask yourself what you disagree with and why. Thanx.

fiat lux et fiat pax ...

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[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 months ago

What would his earlier abominable positions have to do with either me or his later positions re. 'anti-war' and Imperial Overreach ? Which of us is consistent all the time ? PB is a product of his culture and time and if he still holds those positions he's a dolt but I'm not just about to write off his more sane thoughts from the strength of your 18 year old source. When it comes to antiwar and pro-peace, I'm not as hard on right-wingers as I could be, as ... Peace Trumps Politics. Try this 10 year old piece perhaps :

pacem in terris ...

EDIT : You only had point #1 up there when I replied and unlike you, I'm no expert on PB but I agree with his Anti-War and Empire writings. You would like this to be something to try to attack my wider positions in your parDisan desperation to try to co-opt this forum for The DNC. You will fail to do that.

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[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 months ago

Who needs health and safety.

Let the markets decide. After all, they're full fledged citizens now, thanks to Citizens United.

Isn't great when we all come together?.

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[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 months ago

Let the "election markets" decide.

Who needs to vote anyway?

There's no time for such silliness, when you have to work 90hrs a week to make the rest.

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[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 months ago

Repelican't gazpacho.

Just in time for Cinco De Mayo!

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 4 months ago

Sinka d mayo? oops I think that is a corp(se)oRat version of the holiday = end all life on d planet - same connection to all other holidays for the corp(se)oRats or any other day for that matter. ( ok now I "am" outta here )

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 months ago

Now with new improved, Blackwater.

Why build an Army, when you can lease one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OE17D8C6O4A

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 4 months ago

Now with no pesky code of conduct - privatization for profit running amok.

OK - seriously - I am outta here "now"

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 months ago

OK, it was good to see you again.

Feel well, and don't stay away so long.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 4 months ago

The "WE" being? = The few the proud the Marines..........um ooops sorry wrong recruitment commercial ............. lets try that again - The "WE" being? = The Few The Wealthy ( & corp(se)oRATions ) the Greedy ( otherwise known as the current plague that is killing the planet ).

[-] 1 points by nazihunter (215) 5 months ago

I think if you have enough money, you can buy your own slave state and see how it works for you. And it just make work for a good amount of time if you can replenish the slaves again and again. But, if there's any one person who doesn't agree this isn't in stark contrast to the Declaration of Independence, I would suggest testing for mental illness for that person.

[-] 1 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 5 months ago

This is the Koch agenda and they support public broadcasting, as long as public broadcasting doesn't shine the light on them.

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[-] 0 points by AlexanderLaMar (0) 5 months ago

vampires can't see their own reflection how can you get that wrong?

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[-] -2 points by flip (6812) 5 months ago

oh no - you are in danger of being removed by those in power. careful now - better not be non partisan

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[-] -1 points by flip (6812) 5 months ago

shortcomings - who could you be thinking of? I am thinking of contacting the people who run the site and asking if we can ban a few words - libe(R)tarian, lair, puppet, troll, motherfucker, Koch sucker - maybe then there would be some serious dialogue. too bad - I imagine that you have had interaction at actual ows locations. with people who are doing real work - stopping foreclosures and feeding sandy victims. what a difference from this shit. keep beating the drum man - that's all we can do. I assume the dogboy and shitz will respond to both of us - they must read everything on the site - who has time for that? they often respond to me when I write to others - weird no?

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[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 months ago

Shhhh, you're not supposed to notice.

Look!

Over there!!

A president!!

When will these "people" figure out, that presidents come and go. ALEC and the Koch mechanism remains, apparently in unobserved perpetuity.

And therein lies the illusion of a duopoly.

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[-] 2 points by grapes (3015) 5 months ago

Look at ZenDog's Recent Comments. There are TWO twinkle point lines instead of one. His comment was, "You've been here longer than me, by.." Somehow my Pandora app was activated and later on my computer locked up and I had to reboot. Weird but true, maybe we touched a raw nerve inadvertently today, probably due to the anthrax comment just under ZenDog's "longer" comment listed under Recent Comments. Perhaps ZenDog's userid was spoofed and I was tricked. Also when I save a just-edited comment (the anthrax/drone no-fly zone one, as it turned out) I have to press the save button TWICE.

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[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 4 months ago

then they should invest in insurance

ain't nothing about property and drone assassination in it

nothing about providing healthcare as opposed to selling insurance

ain't nothing about dealing with the greater imbalance of ownership and money which is become more and more arbitrary by the day

ain't nothing about updating an antiquated the system of governance

ain't nothing about the US be the top weapons seller to the world

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 months ago

I'm sure some of those have been added to the list, since it was written.

If only because some of those things on the list are nearing completion.

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