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Forum Post: How Many of These Do You Abhor?

Posted 3 months ago on April 14, 2014, 1:12 p.m. EST by shooz (17868)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

“We urge the repeal of federal campaign finance laws, and the immediate abolition of the despotic Federal Election Commission."

“We favor the abolition of Medicare and Medicaid programs.”

“We oppose any compulsory insurance or tax-supported plan to provide health services, including those which finance abortion services.”

“We also favor the deregulation of the medical insurance industry.”

“We favor the repeal of the fraudulent, virtually bankrupt, and increasingly oppressive Social Security system. Pending that repeal, participation in Social Security should be made voluntary.”

“We propose the abolition of the governmental Postal Service. The present system, in addition to being inefficient, encourages governmental surveillance of private correspondence. Pending abolition, we call for an end to the monopoly system and for allowing free competition in all aspects of postal service.”

“We oppose all personal and corporate income taxation, including capital gains taxes.”

“We support the eventual repeal of all taxation.”

“As an interim measure, all criminal and civil sanctions against tax evasion should be terminated immediately.”

“We support repeal of all law which impede the ability of any person to find employment, such as minimum wage laws.”

“We advocate the complete separation of education and State. Government schools lead to the indoctrination of children and interfere with the free choice of individuals. Government ownership, operation, regulation, and subsidy of schools and colleges should be ended"

“We condemn compulsory education laws … and we call for the immediate repeal of such laws.”

“We support the repeal of all taxes on the income or property of private schools, whether profit or non-profit.”

“We support the abolition of the Environmental Protection Agency.”

“We support abolition of the Department of Energy.”

“We call for the dissolution of all government agencies concerned with transportation, including the Department of Transportation.”

“We demand the return of America's railroad system to private ownership. We call for the privatization of the public roads and national highway system.”

“We specifically oppose laws requiring an individual to buy or use so-called "self-protection" equipment such as safety belts, air bags, or crash helmets.”

“We advocate the abolition of the Federal Aviation Administration.”

“We advocate the abolition of the Food and Drug Administration.”

“We support an end to all subsidies for child-bearing built into our present laws, including all welfare plans and the provision of tax-supported services for children.”

“We oppose all government welfare, relief projects, and ‘aid to the poor’ programs. All these government programs are privacy-invading, paternalistic, demeaning, and inefficient. The proper source of help for such persons is the voluntary efforts of private groups and individuals."

“We call for the privatization of the inland waterways, and of the distribution system that brings water to industry, agriculture and households.”

“We call for the repeal of the Occupational Safety and Health Act.”

“We call for the abolition of the Consumer Product Safety Commission.”

“We support the repeal of all state usury laws.”

Moreover, how many of these have happened, or are in process in your State.

240 Comments

240 Comments


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[-] 3 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 months ago

not even close

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[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (34903) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

Quite a fucked up mess of BS - Hey?

[-] 1 points by shooz (17868) 2 months ago

Bernie Sanders provided this list of the libe(R)tarian party platform, circa 1980, the year David Koch ran for VP.

It's amazing how many of these items are being promoted today, if not already enacted.

[-] 3 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 months ago

ain't nothing about property and drone assassination in it

nothing about providing healthcare as opposed to selling insurance

ain't nothing about dealing with the greater imbalance of ownership and money which is become more and more arbitrary by the day

ain't nothing about updating an antiquated the system of governance

ain't nothing about the US be the top weapons seller to the world

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[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34903) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

The campaign of the privileged class to control the world - marches on - as throughout all of history. Problem with "this" go around - "is" - that those privileged assholes "now" have the ability ( and apparent goal ) to destroy the world.

[-] -1 points by shooz (17868) 2 months ago

I will be providing items from the list, in threads where appropriate.

most of these, are today being promoted by ALEC.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34903) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

most of these, are today being promoted by ALEC.

OH I Know - and wallstreet and the American Petroleum Institute and CATO and Charlie and Davie and and and

Such a visibly sick group of institutions as well as individuals.

Why are so many people blind to these facts? No don't answer - just a minor rant.

[-] 1 points by shooz (17868) 2 months ago

Because they are overwhelming, and highly propanadized, to create a feeling of disbelief.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34903) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

Monied to spend countless millions ( Billions ? ) on mainstream brainwashing umm propaganda ummm misinformation ummm commercials ummm ... wait a mo - "YES" = all of the above ( same thing after all ).

[-] -1 points by shooz (17868) 2 months ago

Welcome to the Americans for Prosperity!

At least they're founders/supporters are getting sued once in a while.

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/04/30/3432796/koch-getting-sued/

Here in Detroit, all they did was move it downriver, where most of it's dust would blow out over Lake Eire.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34903) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

Out of sight - out of mine - um - mind - well both.

[-] -1 points by shooz (17868) 2 months ago

Over the Falls and out sea, where no one knows, but you and me.

hey??!!

what happened to all the fish?

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (34903) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

What are those? Thought that was just a fast food gimmick.

[-] 0 points by shooz (17868) 2 months ago

Welp. Those do taste like they were grown in factory somewhere.

If there's any real ones left, at least they will have a lot more water to swim in.

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/05/05/3433981/antarctic-melting-sea-levels/

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (34903) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

Huh - well I'm outta here - on a related errand - thinking about getting a movie = The Devastation of Smog

I think it is a documentary about air pollution ( wonder if it contains footage of prolonged inversions over Salt Lake City ) - Man that air can get thick nasty and deadly.

Hold on - What ? the devastation of Smaug you say? Is that the new hip term for air pollution? No? "What?" Wait - you mean it is not a pollution documentary? Figures - I "was" wondering about the connection to Hobbits.

ummm Never Mind

[-] -1 points by shooz (17868) 2 months ago

That's correct.

It's a new report from FLAKESnews.

Did liberal Hobbits cause global warming?

You decide.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (34903) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

HEY - could it still have close symbolic meaning? The Dragon = Penultimate Greed running amok? Huh - is the rumor true? Did they get a real life comparison to play the Dragon? Davie or Charlie or perhaps even Halliburton himself = Dickie C ? Someone from the top end of wallstreet? A conglomeration of all of the above - and then some?

Huh was Gandalf meant to represent Bernie Sanders? If only - Hey? THOU SHALL NOT PASS !!!!!!!!

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[-] 2 points by JGriff99mph (507) 3 months ago

You guys are really pushing the pro Dems, partisan politics hard these days.

I applaud you for your consistent efforts. I don't really think this is the place for it, its a bit deeper than that, but your determination is impressive.

[-] 1 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

http://www.occupy.com/article/32-year-old-woman-dead-because-florida-refused-expand-medicaid

Just a little bit of truth for you.

Just so you know, it's an Occupy issue.

One that you NEVER said a word about.

I wonder why that is?

It's not a libe(R)tarian position?

Isn't destroying medicare/medicaid on the list?

[-] 1 points by nazihunter (318) 3 months ago

What is it the place for?

[-] 1 points by JGriff99mph (507) 3 months ago

not that

[-] 2 points by nazihunter (318) 3 months ago

And they did this just prior to a major general election by a stinkin' conservative court and you wanna blame Obama? Take issue with the guy when he's holding all the cards and still does nothing.

[-] 2 points by nazihunter (318) 3 months ago

I think of myself as a progressive more than a democrat or a liberal. As a progressive, I can't accept big oil anymore. Even if we wanted to get off it, it would take decades. I'm also against fracking and coal mining. None of it is necessary. I think the eco-system is n grave danger. Global markets do more for cheap labor that anything else. Yet we're forced to cling to it because of the "old" money of the republican party. And they buy more and more of it everyday. Whatever we can do to slow them down, preferably stop them, is in all our best interests. You read of the case of the guy who was republican and changed to democrat after fracking close to his home pretty much made it useless? Before then, it was pretty much a partisan thing for that guy until reality struck. I'm not looking to the left or thee right, only what's going on in real time and killing us all quick. ALL republicans voted to allow banks to use derivatives again. ALL republican justices voted big business to fund elections all they want. If it were the dems doing it, I'd vote republican. They're issues for which the writing's on the wall. You fail to do something, we go further downhill. Now if ows has a better solution, by all means, let me hear it. Feeding a poor guy in the hood isn't gonna cut it. We'll all be poor guys in the hood soon. Then, further downhill from there. Time to make a choice. Standing on principle now, alone will crush ows. These big businesses think ows is a joke. Doing nothing will only make them laugh harder. If the dems had won as much as the pugs and had a majority in the House and Senate for more than a couple years, and didn't reverse some of this shit, I'd be totally with you. Lastly, are you gonna tell me Obama is any where near as bad as the previous clowns? You'd' better go back and review the first eight years of the decade. Gas prices doubled, which caused everything else to go up with it. Wars and more wars. Patriot Act, mass surveillance Guantanamo, It's a bit ridiculous to take aim at Obama without looking at who started the mess and put it in motion. They're still on Fox saying they haven't gone far enough. You can't change things until you have a leg up. How to get there?

[-] 0 points by grapes (2765) 3 months ago

The clowns should definitely include the ones in charge for the eight years before your eight years. World Trade Center was bombed in 1993 shortly after Bill Clinton was sworn into office. USS Cole was suicide-attacked in October 2000, shortly before Clinton administration left office, nearly one year before 911 attack in 2001 during W's administration which was acting like Sargent Schultz ("I see nothing! I hear nothing!").

As the Commander-in-Chief of the most capable military force on our planet (which had recently incinerated the elite Iraqi Republican Guards in the "Hundred-Hour War" and liberated Kuwait) and knowing about plots to fly airliner into the Eiffel Tower and coordinated attacks on multiple airliners in the Pacific, were two full terms in office enough for Bill Clinton to have done something about Al Qaeda and the looming 911 attack?

The Republicans were not innocent, either, but that is another sordid tale for another day. There are far more than enough blame to spread around for both major parties. It did not help to have the semen stain on the blue dress while trying to command a response to the declaration (in 1998 on U.S. TV) and acts of war by al-Qaeda. The Republicans would have surely claimed Clinton generating a distraction from the "other-woman" cases which would not have even started if not for the "Whitewater Scandal" investigation, ultimately powered by the "Contract with America" which is eerily in tune with many abhorrences listed above in the posting.

[-] 1 points by nazihunter (318) 3 months ago

The Republicans are not innocent(????) That's an understatement if I every heard one.What your suggesting is completely insane-which is, it appears, the poor Bush jr.'s troubles started because Clinton didn't do enough? You say potato and I say bullshit. The Monica shit showed us all why we should hate Republicans. They wasted billions and billions of dollars going after Clinton while their fearless leader was cheating on his wife, who had cancer, with an intern? Then when we ask him why he put his foot in his mouth, he's says it was because Clinton lied. How many years, money and time did this hypocrite waste? Then he ran for president and got all pissed off when someone asks him about it? Really? Did he lie? So lying was an impeachable offense but the guy who did the same damned thing wanted the office. I did I say the same thing? No, he did much worse. Put yourself in his wife's place. BUT! The Bible Belt state of Georgia votes for him overwhelmingly. When I found out about it, I threw up, literally. It's was Clinton term but the pugs were clearly in control. Don't you think that Bush sr.'s guys were still waiting in the wings, like they did with Reagan, Nixon, Ford to right back into office with jr. ? Did you look at how high the military budget went with DHS? That's your big government party, lying their ass. Isn't that an impeachable offense? But far worse, he did it all on credit with our enemies and didn't pay a cent back during his whole term. The Cole is damage to one ship. You want to compare that to the military graveyard of tanks, planes, helicopters, humvees, armaments, drones, etc., etc.miles long. Verified and absolute. Then the financial crisis-and subsequent bailout. Hey, here's a joke, 'Those weapon's of mass destruction gotta be somewhere!' And his buddies thought that was funny? And I love all the plots Bush stopped. We still have his Patriot Act. What we don't have is any verification of ANY of these plots. How could the Cole have been stopped? Or the trade tower attack? How could Clinton know what the Republicans were planning to do to their own country?? How? And you're comparing this to what the warmongers did?? Rather than bait your hook further, justify how Clinton's record is worse than his successors. There was a publication called Black Book back in the early 90s that foretold of the security state. You see, it wasn't a prediction. They were planning it!

[-] 2 points by grapes (2765) 3 months ago

The attempted attack plot in January 2000 of the USS the Sullivans should have served as a warning that could have averted the USS Cole bombing in October 2000.

[-] 2 points by grapes (2765) 3 months ago

It is not the first time that I was accused of "understatement." Thank you for getting out some of the "sordid tale" about the Other cheater, who was two heartbeats away from assuming the Presidency. I saw too much and got tired.

All ye parents of young daughters (or sons, too?), send them not as interns into the dens of the "lions." For even the EEOC is structurally under the paws of or the tail-swipe immunity by these sexually predatory "lions."

Romans 11:8,9 is apt for this occasion of Easter. W was Sargent Schultz in Chief. "ALL have fallen short of the glory of God." I ask my people, the U.S. populace: How did lying become a job requirement for political offices and why sexual predators came to occupy our most powerful posts? Of course, this problem disrespects borders and exists at the international monetary and political levels, too.

[-] 1 points by nazihunter (318) 3 months ago

Yes, I hear you. I get tired of the arguments. The actual doing is much more pleasurable. I am totally in concert with what you're all saying because I was saying it myself. You know, I was saying things like the lesser of two evils is still evil. A vote either way won't make a difference and so forth. That was in 2000 when everybody was fighting over Fla. and Bush stealing the election. But, it's like getting a huge cut across the capillaries. Doing nothing is not an option. I don't know if I'm saying it right. Pondering the value of life isn't a great thing to do when you're bleeding to death. You need the stitches first. Then you have more time to ponder,

[-] 1 points by grapes (2765) 3 months ago

I can learn needlework using my semi-conscious patient. Being a novice, my every stitch takes a clumsy long time so it hurts but in due time, the bleeding will hopefully abate and my patient shall recover.

[-] 1 points by nazihunter (318) 3 months ago

If you wanna fight with everyone in the operating room, the patient's as good as dead.

[-] -1 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

here you are . . . let me see . . . hmmm . . .

.

*Which lab are you thinking about that may have the weaponizing capability and where is it? It is in humanity's common interest to put this technology under tight control.

.

Fishing again. Go fish mutherfuker

For anyone joining us who isn't up to speed, we're discussing the Anthrax letters of 2001 - and grapes is well aware that the lab where the anthrax came from did not have the equipment to conduct the final processing of the spores for weaponization. Now he's just fukin around, fishing. The comments where this conversation began are below, at the end of their natural comment nesting - but this fool insisting on continuing the dialog. For the general purposes of this discussion, grapes began, more or less, right here

.

.

*I want to state the facts but not to harm the vital interests of my "flock." I may sound confused but that is perfectly fine because my beloved "sheep" come first before my reputation. ZenDog, being a dog, you should know what the true duty of a dog guarding a flock of "sheep" is. One may even appear like a wolf and bite the ankles of some "sheep" so that can hurt.

.

flock? you mean sock puppets don't cha? wtf?

.

and from my inbox . . . what do we have here? . . .

=========================================================================== | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ===========================================================================

.

grapes said 6 hours ago at April 21, 2014, 12:21 a.m. EST (delete)

It has just changed to 0 and 0 under your "here longer than me" comment. Maybe I was spoofed by someone masquerading as you.

grapes said 6 hours ago at April 21, 2014, 12:19 a.m. EST (delete)

Why is Recent Comments showing TWO twinkle points 0 and -1 for your comment? Did you start Pandora's Box app on my computer? My computer also locked up and had to be rebooted. Did you cause these?

dude

you are so fuked

Ivins may be dead, but that case is far from closed, regardless of what the FBI sayz. He had help to weaponize those spores. And then he sent those spores to two United States Senators.

You are so fuked.

That bit of art, above? You know what that is, right? It's a fukin railroad. You're on it. Only question is, who's gonna get to you first?

[-] 2 points by grapes (2765) 3 months ago

I always like having hypotheses to check out such as which lab(s) may have the weaponizing capability for anthrax. I thought that you may know something but it is fine if you do not offer a working hypothesis because I can be mistaken for yet another time. If you do not throw me a bone, I can still sniff around in the global dump.

As for the railroad, I must have taken it to be the Underground Railroad. All who crave Freedom must get Faith first to hop on, in spite of death threats.

[+] -4 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

The clowns should definitely include the ones in charge for the eight years before your eight years. World Trade Center was bombed in 1993 shortly after Bill Clinton was sworn into office. USS Cole was suicide-attacked in October 2000,

What? I'm sure I don't even know what that means . . .



. . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . stupid fuking repelicans . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .





. . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . stupid fuking repelicans . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .



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[-] -2 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

why should I do that? Why the fuk should I do that? There are far, far too many of you provocatorial repelican scumbags attempting to control too fukin much of the entire infrastructure as it is.

stupid grapes is way off script - that's not my fault. Maybe if fools like that didn't show up here with their fuking scripts in the first place . . . who knows . . . maybe I would find something else to do.

Dredging up Sandy Berger. WTF? The mellenials don't care about him. THAT is an attempt to either assuage his right wing geriatric ass or appeal to and so please that particular demographic -

which as far as I can tell isn't too much in evidence around here - unless it is and then one simply must ask why

Why would anyone in their right mind construct an argument designed to appeal to geriatric right wing scumbags . . .



. . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . stupid fuking repelicans . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .



.

I do hope the IG's little exploration keeps you fukers entertained - at least as entertained as I have been by the fuking shooz left out on the road last week . . .



. . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . stupid fuking repelicans . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .



.

kiss my ass you right wing shill

.

  • Ivins had help. They are still out there. And grapes is off script.

Is that my fault?

[-] -1 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

what does that mean and who gives a shit, hc? huh? Huh?

fuk you ya zero henge lyin' repelican fuk

[-] 1 points by JGriff99mph (507) 3 months ago

Last I checked- and feel free to deny any of this- you support:

  • The wars
  • The bailouts
  • Politicians who take multinational corporate and ALEC cash
  • Centralized Power

Ya, I'm the rightie.... Riiiiiiiiigggggghhhhhhhhtttttt............

Keep posting, glad this site is providing you with an income stream.

In a way, because your rampant stupidity is so hard for me to ignore, I guess Im actually helping to pay your bills too. Youre welcome.

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

oh what - you think I"m gonna sit here and lie?

IF it makes a difference - Afghanistan was a necessity - I know a lot of genuine OWS folk will take exception to that opinion. But it is mine.

Iraq was not only an unnecessary distraction, it was quite likely a crime of international proportion - but I'm not a lawyer.

Politicians who take cash . . . that is a problem. The only solution is to get the money out of politics. And who consistently votes to do that?

  • lemme give you a hint you lying libertarian shill - it isn't repelicans

Far as centralized power goes - only fools - deregulationists - deluded free market capitalists -insist that centralized power is in every case a bad thing.

Case in point - I'm all for States Rights - but states do not have the right to erect barriers to voting to prevent the poor or minorities from upsetting that geriatric repelican grip on power

you stupid mutherfuker

[-] 3 points by JGriff99mph (507) 3 months ago

Sorry to break it to you there states right lover, but power centralized outside of the immediate community usually leads to bad things.

Look at Tallahassee, or Albany.

Out of sight outta mind type of thing. On both the people's part and the politicians.

Endorsing people who "claim" to want money out of politics and don't have the moral compass to stick to it, well, talk about fuckin stupid move .

Almost as stupid as using 9/11 as an excuse to take over Afghanistand while ignoring the Saudis. But I guess thats prob not the narrative on Peacock Central or Fox, so be it.

Let me guess, you supported the Afghan surge, but not the Iraqi one, and you are now fine with bombing villiages in 6 different countries since our 08 campaign to END THE WARS.

Sell outs abound. You should run. You'd fit right in.

[-] -2 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

You don't even realize you are endorsing the very things you claim to be against.

bullshit and fuk you

Who do you think suggested regulating carbon emissions into the atmosphere?

umm ahhh DUMMBBBB aieeDonnnOO 'e sayz . . .

stupid fuker

here

that's my vote, at work mutherfuker

GOBAMA!!

you stupid mutherfuker

[-] 1 points by JGriff99mph (507) 3 months ago

"here that's my vote, at work mutherfuker GOBAMA!! you stupid mutherfuker"

Once again, redeeming yourself. Keep it up.

[-] -2 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

but power centralized outside of the immediate community usually leads to bad things.

yeah-ya ya . . . you stupid fuker . . . .

centralized power mee.mee.mee.mee.mee.mee.mee.mee

look at this Louisiana Bayou you dumb cunt.

Depleted Oxygen is the most common cause but in this instance there is a question about the impact of oil.

Didn't shooz have a link to the Chesapeake and their issues with algae blooms, depleted O2 and attempts to mitigate the problem

with conservative scumbags crawling out from under their rocks thousands of miles away to oppose any action at all.

you stupid bitches need to be slapped.

[-] 2 points by JGriff99mph (507) 3 months ago

"with conservative scumbags crawling out from under their rocks thousands of miles away to oppose any action at all."

So deny them the ability to do so. That would require you stop doing just about everything you do now. You don't even realize you are endorsing the very things you claim to be against.

[-] 1 points by flip (5207) 3 months ago

so you answered two of his charges and did a nice job on the centralized power issue. as to bush and Afghanistan - you are way off base - just a small piece from noam on your opinion - The issue of “just war” should not be confused with a wholly different question: Should the perpetrators of the atrocities of September 11 be punished for their crimes—“crimes against humanity,” as they were called by Robert Fisk, Mary Robinson, and others. On this there is virtually unanimous agreement—though, notoriously, the principles do not extend to the agents of even far worse crimes who are protected by power and wealth. The question is how to proceed. The approach favored by Afghans who were ignored had considerable support in much of the world. Many in the South would surely have endorsed the recommendations of the UN representative of the Arab Women’s Solidarity Association: “providing the Taliban with evidence (as it has requested) that links bin Laden to the September 11 attacks, employing diplomatic pressures to extradite him, and prosecuting terrorists through international tribunals,” and generally adhering to international law, following precedents that exist even in much more severe cases of international terrorism. Adherence to international law had scattered support in the West as well, including the preeminent Anglo-American military historian Michael Howard, who delivered a “scathing attack” on the bombardment, calling instead for an international “police operation” and international court rather than “trying to eradicate cancer cells with a blow torch.” Washington’s refusal to call for extradition of the suspected criminals, or to provide the evidence that was requested, was entirely open, and generally approved. Its own refusal to extradite criminals remains effectively secret, however. There has been debate over whether U.S. military actions in Afghanistan were authorized under ambiguous Security Council resolutions, but it avoids the central issue: Washington plainly did not want Security Council authorization, which it surely could have obtained, clearly and unambiguously. Since it lost its virtual monopoly over UN decisions, the U.S. has been far in the lead in vetoes, Britain second, France a distant third, but none of these powers would have opposed a U.S.-sponsored resolution. Nor would Russia or China, eager to gain U.S. authorization for their own atrocities and repression (in Chechnya and western China, particularly). But Washington insisted on not obtaining Security Council authorization, which would entail that there is some higher authority to which it should defer. Systems of power resist that principle if they are strong enough to do so. There is even a name for that stance in the literature of diplomacy and international affairs scholarship: establishing “credibility,” a justification commonly offered for the threat or use of force. While understandable, and conventional, that stance also has lessons concerning the likely future, even more so because of the elite support that it receives, openly or indirectly

[+] -4 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

what's that? someone has a different opinion regarding Afghanistan? I really can't tell - that large block of text is largely indecipherable. Is that all a single point? or several lumped together?

The Bushite Boyz fuked it up. Bad. They put the hammer down, and instead of finishing the job they let themselves be distracted by their desire to punish saddam for his plot against Senior Bushite. Mr. CIA

Given that, it seems most opinion now will be informed by the overall length of our war in Afghanistan and the completely unnecessary destruction it has caused.

As for whatever else your texty rant may contain - who gives a shit. I'm not gonna read it - likely no one else is either.

You and shadz keep insisting Obama is a war criminal despite his changes in policy regarding Afghanistan -

You people do not care how much of a head ache the Pentagon gave the President over just these kinds of policy changes.

You know what . . . fuk you

fuk you I said

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[-] -1 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

I had some time for you back in the day.

back in what day? When this place first started you mean? OH yeah . . . that day . . .

the real question is, why are you on here shilling for someone else?

The country is fuked - and since we are the most powerful nation on earth - when we go bad, the whole world goes bad.

what happened to me? what happened to you? Is collecting a pay check more important than telling the truth? more important than your kids - or your grand kids - futures?

and delineated either R or D

yeah-ya - sure. We were pals alright - so long as I didn't push back too hard against that same same line of bullshit huh.

who turned on who mutherfuker?

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[-] 1 points by grapes (2765) 3 months ago

Somebody ALWAYS knows. Ask the interns who know the most intimate details. You do need to watch out for being run over by Andy Warwhore's unicorn herd, though.

Why do you think that Sandy Berger, Clinton administration's National Security Advisor, absconded multiple copies of the same classified material from the National Archive? Isn't it just censorship by "borrowing" privilege to block any sunlight on culpability leading to 911 and beyond?

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

it really makes little sense waiting for the minute to expire so I can respond to a comment that makes absolutely no sense.

what the fuk?

[-] 0 points by grapes (2765) 3 months ago

This is the fuk: Berger plea. One buddy I had who was often in foggy postcoital bliss used the expression, "What the fuk? I fuk'd my brain out," and meant it literally. It can cut multiple ways, brain and/or bliss.

[-] -2 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

what is the point in raising this? Obviously he was operating for someone else, and it isn't likely it was either of the Clintons.

Yes, I am aware that is not what the article says.

hmmm - I don't suppose they gave him the max, did they?

Do you think they could have upgraded the charges? Like, to a felony maybe?

We could ask Snowden what the ultimate potential penalty might be . . .

.

of course . . . Of couse . . .

gratuitous party bashing

I get it. No prob.



. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . stupid fuking repelicans . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .



as if the millennials even care about Sandy Berger

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (21343) 3 months ago

No, I didn't draw the wrong conclusion there.

https://occupywallst.org/forum/in-defence-of-the-broad-church-of-socialism-from-t/#comment-1029315

Chomsky is right in what he says about the right wing, that is so obvious. And Wolff is also right in what he says about the weakening of the true left in this country. And, with no organization of the left, we're left with the moderates, who are well organized but whose interests are more with corporations and the wealthy than with the masses of people who make up this country. If the moderates' interests and support lay with the people, would we be in this mess? this worsening mess?

[-] -2 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

the president

The President's individual campaign was very organized. That does not mean the dems as a whole are organized. They are not.

I defy you to examine the Congressional Voting Record and demonstrate that repelicans vote as often with dems as dems do repelicans.

there is a reason for that Party Discipline that is more in evidence among repelicans as opposed to dems - repelicans rarely break away from their party leadership because they know there will be retribution if they do.

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (21343) 3 months ago

This is a roundabout argument that goes nowhere. I don't really care whether the Dems are organized or not, although of course, they are. It's not the issue. The issue is that they don't work hard enough for the people. Their interests lay with the wealthy and corporations. They do not fight for the working person, for the poor, for the down and out. They pretend that they do, but they don't really. Look at their record. Look at where we are today. Why would we want to continue on this road?

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

The issue is that they don't work hard enough for the people. Their interests lay with the wealthy and corporations.

That is a sweeping blanket statement, one that I happen to know is not true. I vote for two dems who represent Vermont at the federal level and do fight for average Americans.

It may be true among other members of the party. As a whole certainly something is desperately fuked up. No question about that.

What you completely ignore is the impact of screaming right wing childishness and insanity in the halls on Congress. It is backed up by big money and it has an impact.

To create a grass roots party from scratch would require a great deal of time. There are 300 million of us in the U.S. How is a new candidate going to generate trust and confidence among a majority of the population?

That's one person - now apply that question to an entire slate of candidates - a party.

Where is it going to get the resources to advertise their campaigns?

Personally I think it would be a lot faster to simply grab someone who is already either inside or about to get inside, and twist their arm hard enough to get them behaving properly.

Getting the money out will greatly enhance our ability to do that.

A lot of dems are in favor of getting the money out. We - OWS - could be demanding that we make this a litmus test for candidates. Are we doing that?

no.

We're less than useless. We've become obstructionist - and that serves repelican interests.

I tend to resent that a great deal.

[-] 7 points by beautifulworld (21343) 3 months ago

I disagree that OWS is obstructionist. OWS pushes the envelope and one of the groups it pushes is Democrats. You have to counter extreme with extreme and not be shy about it. You can't come to the boxing match with only one glove on, which is exactly what the Dems have done for years. We have to fight back and hard. For example: They (right wing assholes) want to eliminate the Department of F'ing Education. Then we want FREE f'ing public education for all, through to the college level. We have to push back hard. That's the point I'm trying to make, though maybe I'm not making it well.

[Removed]

[+] -4 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

dems are not organized at all - there is a distinct philosophical difference between them and repelicans

it's called Party Discipline

dems don't have any. If they did, you are correct, we would not be in this mess.

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (21343) 3 months ago

"dems are not organized at all...."

No offense, but that is silly. And they have total party discipline when it comes to their own survival, and that means, same as their Republican counterparts, taking handouts from corporations.

Dems play the game, sadly, and that is why we need a stronger left. To push them to work for the people instead of their own self-aggrandizement.

[-] 4 points by JGriff99mph (507) 3 months ago

I worked the 08 Obomber campaign, tons of resources and tons of momentum. People willing to help out all over. Best online campaign ever, still to date.

What did it get us? A big pile of shit. Not a pile that is sort of ok, maybe not quite there. A pile that is absolutely putrid.

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (21343) 3 months ago

Exactly. Nothing. Absolutely nothing for the people except for some crumbs, in my mind, just to keep them quiet. And, when you think of how Occupy was smashed with a Democratic president in office, really makes you wonder, no? Who exactly do the Democrats stand for? I know who they say they stand for. But, who do they really stand for?

[-] -1 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

They have NOTHING to compare to ALEC, nor the SPN.

nothing.

[-] 4 points by JGriff99mph (507) 3 months ago

Actually they take a lot of ALEC money, being that ALEC is a group made up of corporate pillagers who simply created a lobbying platform and gave a name to it.

Dems don't push their legislation. They just take the cash out the backfoor, more so than Republicans in many cases.

Its just that Dem supporters are too fuckin stupid to notice because its not right in front of their face:

https://occupywallst.org/forum/alec-board-members/

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (21343) 3 months ago

So, it's okay for the right to have their extreme, but you don't want one for the left. You just want the moderates, and kill the far left, you think the left gets in the way of moderates. Makes no sense to me, sorry.

If moderates are so easily swayed, then wouldn't it make sense to foster a strong true left to pull them in the direction of the people? Of course ALEC exists, but so could a labor movement to counteract it. That is what is missing. A counterpart to the friggin' right wing nutters in this country. Oh well, I know this won't get through to you or ZD, and that you disagree with me, but it's my opinion.

[Removed]

[-] -2 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

that's just stupid. your analytical skills are completely nonexistent if you think the dems have anything that compares with ALEC, CoC, Heritage Foundation, the Koch brothers and their tea party . . . etc. I'm sure you can google

Then there are the instances like this that are far more common among dems then repelicans:

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (21343) 3 months ago

Really? The party that has the Presidency, the most powerful man in the free world, lol, is not well organized? You are the one that lacks analytical skills. Everything for you is black and white and you are too stupid to see how well organized the "moderates" are and how self-aggrandizing and elitist they are as they leave the masses to pick up the crumbs they have left behind.

[-] -3 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

https://occupywallst.org/forum/how-many-of-these-do-you-support/#comment-1029484

At least you are now beginning to see that libe(R)tarians are "right wing."

That's a start.

The purpose of what I'm asking you to do though, is meant to help you understand, just how bad it's gotten.

How many of these items have been enacted to one degree or another in your State?

It's a simple question.

One that deserves a simple, direct answer.

.

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (21343) 3 months ago

Starting? Are you kidding me? I've been hashing it out with libertarians here since day one. In fact, some libertarians, I would even go as far as to argue that many libertarians, really have a very weak understanding of Austrian economics which is really the underpinning philosophy to libertarianism.

Therefore, most do not even understand the consequences of the crap that they subscribe to. It is almost a cult and if you talk to some of these people you can see that they are on an intellectual journey through a complex web of politics and economics that they do not understand but where they are trying to find answers to a society that has left them wholly unsatisfied.

Educating them is the best thing we can do because the people at the helm of libertarianism will never tell them what libertarianism really means for the masses.

And, if you really need to know I do no think any of those items have been enacted to any degree in my State. In fact, the opposite on some of those items is true.

[+] -4 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

https://occupywallst.org/forum/how-many-of-these-do-you-support/#comment-1029492

One would have to believe you might be kidding yourself.

I looked around in the archives for any evidence of you facing off with any of the multitude of libe(R)tarians and found nothing.

So could you please provide some links?

You definitely haven't challenged any lately.

As to your statement that NONE of the items on the list have been enacted in your home State, I find completely unbelievable.

ALEC, the legislative arm of the Koch machine, is active in all 50 States and has recently bragged about "owning" all State legislators in 2 of them.

To pretend that they have had no effect in your "mystery" State, is ludicrous.

I will guarantee you they have.

[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (21343) 3 months ago

You are unbelievably rude. That's all I have to say to you. Please stop replying to me.

[Removed]

[Removed]

[+] -4 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

In your State, which of these were enacted and who was most active in it's promotion?

Which of these are up for consideration for enactment and who is actively promoting them?

“We urge the repeal of federal campaign finance laws, and the immediate abolition of the despotic Federal Election Commission."

“We favor the abolition of Medicare and Medicaid programs.”

“We oppose any compulsory insurance or tax-supported plan to provide health services, including those which finance abortion services.”

“We also favor the deregulation of the medical insurance industry.”

“We favor the repeal of the fraudulent, virtually bankrupt, and increasingly oppressive Social Security system. Pending that repeal, participation in Social Security should be made voluntary.”

“We propose the abolition of the governmental Postal Service. The present system, in addition to being inefficient, encourages governmental surveillance of private correspondence. Pending abolition, we call for an end to the monopoly system and for allowing free competition in all aspects of postal service.”

“We oppose all personal and corporate income taxation, including capital gains taxes.”

“We support the eventual repeal of all taxation.”

“As an interim measure, all criminal and civil sanctions against tax evasion should be terminated immediately.”

“We support repeal of all law which impede the ability of any person to find employment, such as minimum wage laws.”

“We advocate the complete separation of education and State. Government schools lead to the indoctrination of children and interfere with the free choice of individuals. Government ownership, operation, regulation, and subsidy of schools and colleges should be ended"

“We condemn compulsory education laws … and we call for the immediate repeal of such laws.”

“We support the repeal of all taxes on the income or property of private schools, whether profit or non-profit.”

“We support the abolition of the Environmental Protection Agency.”

“We support abolition of the Department of Energy.”

“We call for the dissolution of all government agencies concerned with transportation, including the Department of Transportation.”

“We demand the return of America's railroad system to private ownership. We call for the privatization of the public roads and national highway system.”

“We specifically oppose laws requiring an individual to buy or use so-called "self-protection" equipment such as safety belts, air bags, or crash helmets.”

“We advocate the abolition of the Federal Aviation Administration.”

“We advocate the abolition of the Food and Drug Administration.”

“We support an end to all subsidies for child-bearing built into our present laws, including all welfare plans and the provision of tax-supported services for children.”

“We oppose all government welfare, relief projects, and ‘aid to the poor’ programs. All these government programs are privacy-invading, paternalistic, demeaning, and inefficient. The proper source of help for such persons is the voluntary efforts of private groups and individuals."

“We call for the privatization of the inland waterways, and of the distribution system that brings water to industry, agriculture and households.”

“We call for the repeal of the Occupational Safety and Health Act.”

“We call for the abolition of the Consumer Product Safety Commission.”

“We support the repeal of all state usury laws.”

Why do I have to ask those simple questions, so many times?

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (21343) 3 months ago

Why yes sir there sure is a very nasty right wing in this country. But does that give the moderates a pass to fail the masses at every turn? I am looking for a strong left to counteract that bull shit right wing behavior. The status quo, moderate, Democratic Party is not the answer, though. The Dems are not the panacea. They have proven that. They've been around for decades and things have only gotten worse. If they are at all left leaning, then strengthening the left will strengthen them. You should be for that.

[+] -4 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

Who the fuck, said it's OK??

hchc, flip, Mr. money and a few others.

I've been railing against them to many, many down votes since I got here.

I expect I'll be down voted for saying that too.

There is NOTHING on the left to compare to ALEC and the SPN.

Absolutely nothing.

You really should read Bernie's list.

And then talk about how many items have already been instituted in your State.

Go ahead. I double dog dare you.

[-] 5 points by shadz66 (18061) 3 months ago

Re. your 'Libertarianism' back in the day ... what first attracted you to that ?

fiat lux ...

[+] -5 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

Rude, is making not one, but two, unsubstantiated blanket statements, and then not supporting them, and then calling someone else rude for asking..

I don't care how many trolls support you.

Talk about self aggrandizement.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (18061) 3 months ago

Challenge libertarians to this : 'Ask your fearless leaders, Lew Rockwell, the Pauls, the Kochs, those at the Cato Institute and Heritage Foundation, etc., this question' :

  • "If you want to have a truly libertarian economic society, would you be willing to level out all of the wealth in America before doing so as this would be the only fair way to institute that economic system with everyone on a level playing field ?"

The answer would be a resounding no, of course, because the leaders of libertarianism, the ones who really would benefit from a society with zero regulations on a free-wheeling capitalist society are the ones who already own the capital !

These people are not stupid. They know damn well that they will start out the race ahead of the masses because they have the capital and they will wipe the masses up off the floor. So, what do they do ? They pull regular people in with sexy stuff like : "You will be free to have as many guns as you want." ; "You can smoke pot and do drugs if you want." ; "You won't have to send your kids to school if you don't want to." etc. etc. And, regular people buy into this social crap that they spew. They buy into it because they feel so oppressed in the first place working at jobs that pay barely enough to survive that any kind of liberty sounds freaking great.

But, what the regular people don't get is that that is just a way to pull them in, what true libertarians are really after is control of the economy. They want to own every single one of us. And, in a free-wheeling unregulated capitalist economy, that is exactly what we will have. Most of the regular people following that ideology just don't get this. And, it is very important that we educate people to understand how deleterious an unregulated capitalist system would be.

Have you any idea whose words those are ?! Like many of those left here, I ''support'' bw ... so does that make me a ''troll'' too ?!! She responded to you with grace, intelligence and patience when you've tried to bully, hector and paint her into some b-s corner and now you look to goad her with baseless projections of your own self-referential personality and patronising blow-hardery - not to mention .. your 'rudeness' !!!

I'll bet that you only looked at your own forum-posts to see if she replied there because anyone who has been here longer than 2 weeks knows how and what she says about 'Libertarianism'. It is one of her very unique features that she doesn't make forum-posts but restricts herself to only commentary and replies.

You should learn how to search the archives & here's a clue for you ; the 'Libertarian Troll Wars', were at their height from Oct.'11 to Feb.'12 but have been going on in some form or fashion since OWS' get-go.

Readers (because there are many more of those than us posters) and you - should re-read some of the exchanges just on this thread & take note of some of your tone & see how she's responded to you here.

Hectoring long established Forum Occupiers is NOT cool. Reread your comments here, then go look up ''self-aggrandizement'' as you look past your now disgust and disdain at those you previously had affinity with - and get over yourself. Stop being such an oaf & consider both 'The Powell Memo' & the following :

et temet nosce ...

[+] -5 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

nice trite insubstantial

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (18061) 3 months ago

As you voted RepubliCon in your twenties (or was it thirties ?) & as you are now barking more for the DemoCraps these days, are you proof positive of the relative interchangability of these two within the - 'Binary Manichaean Construct of US Polytricks' ? Or is that too 'trite and insubstantial' to ask of you ?

ad iudicium ...

[-] 1 points by grapes (2765) 3 months ago

Yes, I concur that Snowden or the Pulitzer-Prize winning journalists can be of help here but the information might have been out of reach of even Snowden (whose trawling might have been too late to catch the culpables in action). There is great incentive that the U.S. wants to keep this longer as a secret for political purposes so only countries like Russia may be of help here because Snowden might have or have not brought the information to Russia. Some former state department people may also be of help. Note the evaluation about Pakistan. Has the U.S. been fighting the wrong war and aiding the double-dealers all these years?

[-] -3 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

what the fuk kind of shillery is this?

and how did that anthrax manage to get weaponized?



. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . stupid fuking repelicans . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .



[-] 3 points by grapes (2765) 3 months ago

The weaponized anthrax came from Greendale Elementary School, originating address being written on the envelope plainly in capitalized letters. Even the ancient Romans knew and used the material for weaponizing anthrax but I have vested interest in not getting people killed en masse so zip.

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

oh shit! you said

  • ANTHRAX
[-] 2 points by grapes (2765) 3 months ago

Yes, this anthrax stuff is still on my mind. That is why I want a no-fly zone for drones over U.S. population centers. The elites salivate over drone manufacturing and deployment but it can become a Pandora's Box. Let us say there be a few thousands or tens of thousands of drones per city flying over Washington, New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Philadelphia, etc. Can someone tell me if any one of them and which one is spreading anthrax spores from the air? Deafening silence, right? Drones can have minuscule radar cross sections and hide behind tall buildings. Besides, they could be made of radar-beam transparent or stealth materials.

[-] -3 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago


. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . stupid fuking repelicans . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .



[-] -3 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

Go fish mutherfuker

the lab didn't have the equipment to weaponize it.

but you knew that.



. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . stupid fuking repelicans . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .



[-] 2 points by grapes (2765) 3 months ago

Which lab are you thinking about that may have the weaponizing capability and where is it? It is in humanity's common interest to put this technology under tight control.

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[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

look at that fuking list. It isn't a scare tactic. It's what they really want to implement.

repelicans

Koch suckers

is that somehow unclear?

[-] 0 points by JGriff99mph (507) 3 months ago

Its very clear. They suck. Can't stand em.

Thing is, you are getting that now as you speak from the ones you think support all of that, its just being done without you noticing.

Take, for instance, the FDA. Whats the difference between someone saying they dont want it, and another saying Monsanto should run it?

Screwed either way.

You guys always only report half the story, then cluck at each other under the thread for hours on end.

Go and get married already.

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

The FDA and MonSatan is not an issue I've followed very closely . . . in the late 90's the suggestion . . . hung in the air . . . some GE trees needed to be spiked. I passed on the suggestion at the time . . . for personal reasons . . . and haven't paid much attention to the GE issue since.

Certainly that revolving door between government and the biotech industry needs to be closely examined, and if Hillary plans to run for President then she must prepare to answer questions both regarding past involvement and future resolution to this issue in a manner that is both credible and satisfactory.

If she can't do that then perhaps she should stay home.

[-] -1 points by JGriff99mph (507) 3 months ago

" and if Hillary plans to run for President then she must prepare to answer questions both regarding past involvement and future resolution to this issue "

Who mentioned the upcoming war monger/pro Wall St candidate of 2016?

Where did that come from? And why after years in the state department and being an establishment figure, would we even humor this at this point?

What on earth is going on!!!!!!! :)

[-] 3 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

it came from here under Monsanto's Government Ties on the right column.

[-] -1 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

AS many times as you've posted this link.

https://occupywallst.org/forum/how-many-of-these-do-you-support/#comment-1029372

You've NEVER equated to much of anything at all, let alone ALEC's activism. nor it's relationship to libe(R)tarianism and the Koch's.

So, in the interest of the truth, please peruse this link and with full explanation, explain it's relationship to ALEC legislation enacted in Florida (and you know damn well there's a shit load). IE: who backed it, who introduced the legislation, who voted it in. That kind of thing, including what corporations, businesses, lobby's and religious "leaders" pushed it on the public.

Here's the VERY important link, with commentary by Bernie Sanders, a man you've said you love several times.

http://www.sanders.senate.gov/koch-brothers

These a things you've almost completely ignored, so yes.....

What on Earth is going on?

[-] 1 points by JGriff99mph (507) 3 months ago

Actually, I compiled an entire list of ALEC board members and their corporate donations, where they go to, and who is taking them.

https://occupywallst.org/forum/alec-board-members/

I think you just don't like that its a black and white issue, that perhaps in your hate for one you might realize the ones you vote for are taking the same freakin money?

Truth sucks dude.

[-] 0 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

Actually, no you didn't. You just repeated your usual bullshit, and posted the same link, almost to the point of spam, and just as useless.

Bullshit, is still bullshit, no matter how many times you repeat it.

Tie it in with the list, if you think your reasoning is so unassailable.

If you can't?

It just further proves it's bullshit.

So yep.......the truth really does suck for you.

It doesn't fit your shit.....dood.

Hey how that wonderful, truthful comment from Zizek?

[-] 2 points by JGriff99mph (507) 3 months ago

Useless huh?

People accepting money from the corporations you claim to hate and blame for everything wrong is bullshit?

The very politicians you openly endorse accepting ALEC money... Thats bullshit?

Tie it in? Now you are so dumb you need someone to "tie in" with campaign donations with fucked up actions?

Grow up and get a clue. Not even you can possibly be that dumb.

[-] -3 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

Grow the fuck up yourself and do the list.

My God you're sick.

Call me dumb again and you WILL be changing your puppet ass name again.

Nice to see you return to you old insulting, bullying self.

Too many bar fights last night?

Like i said, if you can't tie in the list, it just proves what a bullshitter you've been all along.

So what about that Zizek comment?

There so fucking much you have to ignore for your bullshit to work, it really is sick.

[-] 1 points by JGriff99mph (507) 3 months ago

This is why moderators on political sites shouldnt be interacting with everyone else. It turns into a popularity competition.

Like the dog gets to endorse bailouts, wars, and openly endorse people accepting oil money in record numbers, but someone like me who actually doesnt support that stuff, and actually does shit in the area with tons of groups, and knows most all of the local activists (no not the politicians) gets shit on CONSTANTLY.

And my favorite: Getting banned for arguing with a moderator who shouldnt be posting on here to begin with and then ridiculed for having to go get another name.

Thats the best. Argue with the wrong little club, get shit on, and then get ridiculed for being shit on by the little popular clic all over again.

God I hate hypocrites. And Im not talking about political. I'm talking about how people live their lives.

[-] -3 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

Just answer the questions provided by Bernie's list.

Why is that so hard for you?

You want to insult the forum and it's moderation now?

That's good way to get banned.

You are a doublespeak hypocrite, that's what using puppets are all about.

Hypocrisy.

so how about that list from Bernie?

You did say you love the guy a few times now.

what do you love about him?

[-] 1 points by JGriff99mph (507) 3 months ago

Its not up to you to be some grand inquisitor, is it?

Again, further proof on why moderators on the internet shouldnt be engaging in the dialogue.

This from the admitted former libertarian, now prancing around the internet demanding everyone else explain why people- LIKE HIM/HER- would want that.

Talk about a double speak coward.

Demanding answers to things that were formerly endorsed. What a fraud.

[-] -2 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

OMFG.

Doublespeak from you again?

You will do anything to avoid the truth that list provides.

You've done this same thing before. Wearing other nameplates.

Did you think I forgot?

Or are you betting other posters did?

Did you think I don't know you cribbed this tactic from the teabbage(R) forum disruption plan?

Just so you know?

constant criticism of moderation, is legal grounds for banning.

I've done nothing here, but ask you to give cogent commentary on a list about libe(R)tarian activities.

You've done nothing but avoid it.

JFC, now you accuse me of "prancing"?

WTF?

I thought you wanted to debate?

Like you told me.

Grow the fuck up and debate the list.

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by JGriff99mph (507) 3 months ago

"Grow the fuck up yourself and do the list. My God you're sick. Call me dumb again and you WILL be changing your puppet ass name again. Nice to see you return to you old insulting, bullying self. Too many bar fights last night? Like i said, if you can't tie in the list, it just proves what a bullshitter you've been all along."

Fighting insults with insults? Glad to see you take the high road.

This is why people fuckin hate power. Two people debating and it gets a ugly, but one can insult and the other can simply remove them.

DOWN WITH CORRUPTION. DOWN WITH DOUBLE SPEAK.

DOWN WITH FAVORITES. DOWN WITH HYPOCRISY.

[-] -1 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

You are doublespeak. You've always been doublespeak.

It's why you can't face what the list indicates.....reality.

I'm done taking the highroad with you, with you so low on the low road.

There's NEVER been any sign of debate with you. You've never tried it.

Over and over, all you've done is refuse to answer pertinent questions.

It's been your MO all along........doublespeak.

Misspeak.

Avoidspeak.

You have the POWER of your puppets. I don't go that low.

And really, what was all this bullshit from you?

Just you avoiding the question, once again.

Just you, avoiding the unassailable truth that list, could provide you, if only you would read it and apply it to your community, your State.

But your too scared, or too dishonest to do that, so you go after ANY form of insult you can.

You are doublespeak, personified.

You are corruption

How about that comment from Zizek now?

[-] 1 points by JGriff99mph (507) 3 months ago

"You have the POWER of your puppets. I don't go that low."

No you just allow a couple select people to say the most disgusting things on the planet but then ban anyone who debates you.

Nice job as usual.

[-] 0 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

OMG the quote monkey disruption taken straight from the teabagg(R) forum disruption plot.

Debate?

Hell yes!

Let's debate the list.....

I've only asked several times now.

It's just more doublespeak from you

every single time.

or you could comment on the Zizek article.

But you won't, you will try and insult me in one form or another.

Doublespeak, is all you have given so far.

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[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

dude - did you just say you are OTP

[-] 0 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

Yup, he's a puppet alright.

A repetitive, shameless puppet.

[-] 3 points by granada (38) 3 months ago

What's worse, being"a repetitive, shameless puppet," OR someone who put him in that position by being a "repetitive, shameless...", conniving neocon moderator on an Occupy forum?

[-] -1 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

Wouldn't know. Are you asserting something here that you really shouldn't?

My guess would be yes.

Would you like to take a look at the list Bernie provided for our edification?

Here's it is....just for you.

http://www.sanders.senate.gov/koch-brothers

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[-] -1 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

what a silly fuker. When I post I post, and everyone knows it's me.

Makes me wonder how the payment scheme is arranged.

And why can't I find some deep pocketed leftist activist group to pay me for berating right wing libertarian scumbags?

Just think - I could fuk all day long

BWA hahahahaaaa

[-] 0 points by JGriff99mph (507) 3 months ago

Right, you can call people faggots and call Sawant a "silly bitch" and claim for bailouts and wars, etc etc etc.

Post Koch Sucker and other disgusting phrases about 100 times a week, and still get a pass.

The redneck conservative prick is you, sorry to tell you. Perhaps you have just not changed with the times and dont realize it.

[-] -1 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

o right - you would prefer an apologetic and servile fool who eats up everything you have to dish out.

sorry pal. that aint me.

Did I call you a silly bitch?

Got a link for that?

[-] 1 points by JGriff99mph (507) 3 months ago

No. You called Sawant that because of, well... I'm not sure what your life has been like, but usually that kind of speak is reserved for people that others dont like on the opposite of their political gods- Palin or Pelosi for example.

But Sawant is a very liberal person, someone you might relate to, and yet there you are, openly stating you regard her as "a silly bitch".

On the main OWS site. Nice job as usual making eveyone look like shit as usual moron.

[-] 1 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

I got him to actually start thinking about her, in a positive fashion.

You?

Didn't even comment.

But then, you have posted links to breitbart before, so I guess you don't want to admit the truth about that either.

https://occupywallst.org/forum/sawant-vs-breitbart/

[-] 1 points by JGriff99mph (507) 3 months ago

"I got him to actually start thinking about her, in a positive fashion."

This is all the proof I need for I've been saying for years here.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

did I call you a bitch? I probably did call you a bitch - maybe . . . I'm sure I called you a cunt just a couple of minutes ago - but I don't have a link to that either and cannot now provide evidence of the fact let alone any context.

context.

o right

you are a non.contextual libertarian cunt

fart away

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[-] -3 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

https://occupywallst.org/forum/how-many-of-these-do-you-support/#comment-1029438

That you're a doublespeaker, that refuses to debate and LOVES using the teabbage(R) quote monkey tactic? As if it makes you a winner?

LOL.

Now, how about that comment I provided for you from Zizek?

I know you're scared of that list from Bernie, but how about that one?

[-] 2 points by JGriff99mph (507) 3 months ago

Quote monkey? Wow, you two are getting to be beyond embarrassing.

So now taking people's own words to show they are full of shit is not allowed? Quotes from Bernie are fine. but quotes from your little friend... that shit is no good?

[-] -3 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

No more of your insults and continuous doublespeak.

No more of your continuous attempts to re-start the kind of soap opera that almost killed the forum.,. You and your band of down voting buddies.

You got banned over it.

Did you apologize?

Nope.

Did you talk about who else was involved?

Nope.

Did you talk about the methodology?

Nope.

Did you create yet another puppet to start that shit all over again?

Yep!

Now, please debate the list, or STFU.

That's one of the reasons what ZD says doesn't bother me.

You shouldn't even be here.

You are doublespeak, personified.

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[-] 0 points by JGriff99mph (507) 3 months ago

Duh, are you always the last to find these things out?

Why don't you ask your Nazi friend why it's such a power hungry freak that cant handle anything. Just on the internet, lord only knows how it acts in public.

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[-] 0 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

Wanna talk about who's instituting them in your State?

I'm sorry, it's been your walk in step, soap opera that's been clucking all along.

Repeating itself on the topic of the day as though picked from the pages of prisonplanet.

Oh wait. That's you to a tee.

So how many are in place in your State, and what was the process that put them there?

[-] 0 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

How many of these are currently, "in use", in Florida?

Oh, and could you please state exactly how this list relates to your accusation?

That would be your consistency, a lover of Alex Jones conspiracy theory, with no real proof.

[-] 0 points by JGriff99mph (507) 3 months ago

Dude, you are the one that used to be a fuckin card holding member of their party- literally worshipping the Koch brothers....

You tell me?

[-] 3 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

aww isn't that cute. You continue to lie, just to avoid the truth about the list.

Is there anything you don't lie about?

and fuck the hell off, you've been praising the Koch philosophy all along.

Now please discontinue your attempts to change the subject and tell me how many of these items on the list are already instituted in Florida.

C'mon......dood. This list is from Sen. Sanders, and not so long ago you professed a love for the good Senator.

By addressing this list, you could prove that love is true.

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[-] -1 points by JGriff99mph (507) 3 months ago

Are you denying you used to be a libertarian?

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

Used to be . . . now that's quite a bit different from currently are isn't it? and you currently are another libertarian shill, right?

I mean, I think it's been conclusively established that both flipper and shaddy shadz have been outed as closet libertarians, and paulite prostate haunters . . .

and you've been standing with them all morning long. The conclusion is inescapable.

[-] 1 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

Oh, for the "record", I said I was a reformed libertarian.

And then I learned to truth.

How about you?

Why do have so many issues, with responding to simple questions?

You've had this issue with practically every one of your numerous nameplates.

Wiggle and squirm, rather than answer.

What are you afraid of?.

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[-] -1 points by JGriff99mph (507) 3 months ago

"Oh, for the "record", I said I was a reformed libertarian. And then I learned to truth."

What brought you to this conclusion?

[-] 0 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

WTF?

Remove your fear..

and

Just address the list.

You've attempted this bullshit before.

Yes, even the name calling you recently did in another thread.

I'm sorry you haven't seen the truth yet. Addressing the list will help.

[-] 0 points by JGriff99mph (507) 3 months ago

"Oh, for the "record", I said I was a reformed libertarian. And then I learned to truth."

What brought you to this conclusion?

[-] 0 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

the list.

that's why you should address it and how it relates to your very own State.

You know, your community.

[-] -1 points by JGriff99mph (507) 3 months ago

If you are constantly going to be accusing others of supporting this stuff, a disclaimer on your own beliefs from years past might help.

Ya know, let everyone know where the grand accuser is coming from, right?

[-] 1 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

Another lie?

It's been pretty much your MO all along.

Please. I'm begging you.

How many items on the list are in place, or in process, in Florida?

There's no accusation, there's no assumption.

It's a simple question, posed to someone who claims to love Sen. Sanders.

Or anyone else willing to be honest.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

I don't live in Florida - but I did find this

  • The latest bombshell is from St. Petersburg Times writer Kris Hundley, who exposed a 2008 agreement between the Charles G. Koch Charitable Foundation and Florida State University for $1.5 million. The money was to fund faculty positions in a new program promoting "political economy and free enterprise." It came with the unconscionable condition that the foundation's handpicked advisory committee hold veto power during the hiring process.
[-] 0 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

http://www.occupy.com/article/victory-vermont-pushes-monsanto-and-big-foods-gmo-defensive

Of course our local libe(R)tarians, didn't mention this either.

It doesn't fit in with the conspiracy theories, and might be seen as "partisan".

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

They aren't supporters of OWS to start with, and given my vitriolic determination are hardly inclined to take any measure of satisfaction from any kind of Victories claimed by Vermont, let alone victories that stabs the bosses ass right through his fat wallet . . .

I'm not a lawyer and haven't followed the whole thing very closely, but if the state isn't sued by MonSatan et al. I will be very surprised.

[-] -1 points by JGriff99mph (507) 3 months ago

Says the two old goats on the internet. Classic.

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

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[-] -1 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

I'm not pushing a thing.

I've asked you to prove your bullshit before.

You never did.

Stop lying about me.

Now.

Say it again and you can find yet another new username.

On the other hand you could actually say which of the above you support, instead of trying to turn yet another thread into another chapter of your fucked up soap opera..

The "choice", as they say, is yours.

[-] 1 points by JGriff99mph (507) 3 months ago

What was the lie?

75% of the comments on this post are from the two of you:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/same-same-not-so-fast/

Desperate to prove the Dems are the answer is what it seems to me. I'm not entitled to my opinion while your friend marches around posting "Koch Suckers" 24/7?

[-] 1 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

They aren't the same..that doesn't make me anything you've accused me of.

That just means, I don't believe your bullshit.

I've offed you plenty of ways to prove they are over the years. you never could prove it, beyond your own borrowed rhetoric.

Now are you still going to continue to lie about me?

[-] -1 points by JGriff99mph (507) 3 months ago

Convince you? The proof is all around you, especially in a manufacturing hub like detroit.

You don't need to believe anything on the internet, you only need to look out the window and see the reality.

How about your 90-8 vote on repealing Glass Steagall and crushing an entire country for their own financial gain?

Would that be an acceptable example for you, shoes?

[-] 0 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

http://www.rickscottwatch.blogspot.com/

There's the opposite proof.

And if you can actually recall what I said.

which you also have a lot of issues with.

I said.

Libe(R)tarians have infested our system, (R)epelican'ts first, but they have no issue attempting to buy whoever else they can Democrats included.

BUT.

The LIONS SHARE of their infestation is among the (R)epelican'ts. By far.

A single vote proves nothing at all.

Now about those items in the list.

How many are already in place in Florida?

[-] -1 points by JGriff99mph (507) 3 months ago

Ya, Scott sucks. So did Kilpatrick. More of the same.

Glad to see you think that Glass Steagall vote was no biggie. Only pushed our entire system off the cliff, for their gain.

Here's another vote for you to blow off:

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=103&session=1&vote=00389#position

Those that voted NO: 13 Dems, 13 Reps... Exactly the same!! Oh my!

[-] 0 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

There is little similarity between the two, on any level.

Almost nothing at all.

But that would take several other topical threads.

Go ahead and start one on your knowledge of Kirkpatrick, with sources.

You had very little to say on those I started on Scott, but that's neither here, nor there.

Where in the OP is there anything at all on Glass Steagall???

WTF?

Another idiotic vote count quote.

Please relate it to something on the list, as it applies to your State.

[-] 0 points by JGriff99mph (507) 3 months ago

"I've asked you to prove your bullshit before. You never did."

Thats what I do, and everyone else here, does on a daily basis, and yet here you are, clinging to some nonsense like, well, I'll just leave it at this:

Afghan War Vote: 98-2

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=107&session=1&vote=00281

Another meaningless vote? Better not disrupt the Saudis, eh?

[-] -2 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

How does that relate to the list and how it applies to your State?

Are you saying you support them all?

Or just the one, that vote was made on?

As far as your bullshit.

I've asked you to demonstrate it in your own community, your own State.

I've shown you umpteen times that it doesn't apply in mine. Yours may differ, I don't know, because you're not saying.

Your avoiding.

[-] 1 points by JGriff99mph (507) 3 months ago

Didnt think you'd comment on another vote that shows what a horrific bunch the DEMS and the REPS are.

HEres one on extending the Bush cuts:

44 Dems, 37 Reps, all saying AYE. Crap duopoly garbage you back.

[-] 2 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

WTF?? are you going on about??

You've posted this shit a million times already. It's been hashed, rehashed and over hashed.

It doesn't prove what you are saying. It's a simple vote, with no explanation.

For all I know maybe the whole lot are bunch of libe(R)tarians.

Or due to the SCOTUS, wanted enough contributions for the next election.

I've been bitching about getting the money out, since this place went live.

So what? Nobody gives a fuck.

That doesn't prove the repetition of your simplistic interpretation.

How about those items on the list?

You never did say anything at all about how many are in place in your State?

[-] 0 points by JGriff99mph (507) 3 months ago

"It doesn't prove what you are saying. It's a simple vote, with no explanation."

..........................

[-] 2 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

Exactly. Now about the list?

Your attention to detail is proving rather poor.

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[-] 2 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

I would hope that very, very few if any, of the above measures are under any form of consideration whatsoever here in Vermont - but I do concede with some dismay - it is possible.

I support the use of this list as an indictment for sedition, seditious conspiracy, and treason, for those who engage in its promotion.

Capital punishment seems a most suitable outcome for the guilty.

[-] 2 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

My guess, is that this is one the local libe(R)tarians will avoid, as they support them all.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

don't say that - I just ate.

[-] 2 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

Sorry. Me too.

Wanna talk about US Baptist's support of contentious, Israeli settlements?

That didn't get mentioned at all, yet their lobby is richer and more powerful than AIPAC.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

that's kinda odd since bashing Israel seems to be one of many recurring themes.

I keep saying: Conservatives really Suck and it doesn't matter what their religious, ethnic, or political origins might be.

Israelis shouldn't be expanding settlements in Gaza or the West Bank - and the settlers are almost as militant as the Palestinians themselves so it must be a really difficult issue even for a politically centrist government.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (18061) 3 months ago

There are 'Bat Shit Crazy Conservatives' & then there are 'conservatives' ; there are also 'Conservative Democrats' & then there are ''more conservative than your average liberal'' Democrats too !!! And, what ''politically centrist government'' are you talking about above btw ?!! Let's all look at who else has been ''bashing'' poor li'l Israel recently, shall we ?!

Are those ''conservative'' enough sources for you ? What is it all coming to d'you think - when the likes of Zbigniew Brezezinski etc. are now exasperated into seeing and speaking elemental truths ? Go on - affect a huge fit of apoplexy for us now why don't you - but can you also manage a cogent response ?!

verum ex absurdo ...

[-] 3 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

The largest, richest pro Zion lobby is made up of evangelicals.

Most in the Southern and South West US.

They encourage those settlements that are causing all the problems.

Check a guy named Hagee sometime.

Didn't Ayn Paul go on a tour of those settlements recently?

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (18061) 3 months ago

John Hagee is a name that I'm familiar with & you are right about 'Ayn' Paul too. Ergo, on this matter ...

fiat lux et fiat pax ...

[-] 2 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

That's not the original source and I've already read it.

Oh and to change the subject yet again, as well as offer you an olive branch.

You'll really like this video.

https://occupywallst.org/forum/years-of-living-dangerously/

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (18061) 3 months ago

I'll take that branch & double down on it, as - despite our fractious differences - I'll still accept that you have The 99% @ <3 ultimately. I don't have time for that whole 'HF' video now but in support, I append :

respice, adspice, prospice ...

[-] 2 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

Too bad. It's enlightening.

The first ones free.......:)

Boycotts of the major contributors will be difficult.

It's not fossil fuels anymore. They're #2.

I'll be watching the rest.

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (18061) 2 months ago

AGW is one of the few things we seem to be able to agree on but as you claim to have some affiliation to The 99% - at least in The U$A ... then maybe you can either explain what is wrong with my banned forum-post &/or have it 'unbanned'. Telling me that you will not second guess the other mod is not enuf.

Thomas Piketty is causing much annoyance to The 0.01% Parasite Class and to their '1% lackeys' in the MSM and elsewhere, so WhyTF would it be banned here ?!!! Are we the subject of mere whim and the capricious prejudice of our own 1% - here on this forum ?!! What say you about this matter now ?!

fiat lux ...

[-] -1 points by shooz (17868) 2 months ago

Um......it's up to you to contact admin.

It should be common knowledge by now, but I guess short attention spans tend to win out.

As for Mr. Piketty, he's reiterating, what we've known all along. our current level of extraction is unsustainable. There was a group of actual, mathematically inclined, rocket scientists at NASA that published a report saying the same thing.

Plus of course the resent entry by Elizabeth Warren.

Then there's also the MANY words of Bernie Sanders, who actually identifies at least some of the culprits.

I get constantly downvoted over all of my posts on that last one.

Well over 2,000, since the incorporation of the "soap opera crew".

100 just last night, and I wasn't even here.

Will you help me root them out?

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (18061) 2 months ago

A whiny, sad and self-piteous response that shows a distinct lack of spine too !!! The only ''soap opera'' is the one you, yourself have both scripted and taken the major staring role in !! I'll help you with nothing because I don't do ''stooge'' or suck up to jart or distract from The 99% Struggle (if I can help it lol) - but a word of unsolicited advice - try to reign in your 'Dog' before he too goes the way of GF and burns out !

veritas vos liberabit ...

EDIT : Re. below - Clearly you believe that anyone who doesn't agree with you is a ''troll' somehow, lolol.

[+] -4 points by shooz (17868) 2 months ago

Nope.

Just a barometer of troll activity.

Does that mean you won't help me?

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

Let's all look at who else has been ''bashing'' poor li'l Israel recently, shall we ?!

I don't really care who else has found it convenient to bash Israel. Seriously.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (18061) 3 months ago

Of course you don't ! Are you also ''seriously'' impervious to the facts ?!!

Now in all fairness dare you even read that - never mind reply about it ?!

e tenebris, lux ...

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

Are you also ''seriously'' impervious to the facts ?

Not generally. Why? do you actually have any?

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (18061) 3 months ago

Dolt !!! Why don't you say what you mean ?!! We have already been through this as I recall (see 2nd link below) - but IF you want another slap upside the head again, I'll oblige you later ! As I'm busy now these links will have to do .. BUT no swearing and losing the plot in reply, ok ?

fiat lux et fiat pax ...

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago
[-] 2 points by shadz66 (18061) 3 months ago

Pat Buchanan is a 'Conservative' and I would have thought that a small 'c', 'conservative' like you (tho' of course that is a relative and subjective term and can disguise a myriad political positions) .. would have understood some of what he is all about !!!

What do you think that PB has to do with me ffs & can I please assure you that PB's positions on many matters will be much closer to yours than mine ?!!

Is this because I recently used an anti-war article of his ?!

When it comes to rational anti-war pieces ... it is fair and reasonable to try use any and all sources and even consistently broken clocks like PB can chime correctly sometimes, so I'll append it here again for you and others to judge what was said :

Do yourself a favour and read this short piece and ask yourself what you disagree with and why. Thanx.

fiat lux et fiat pax ...

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

Pat Buchanan is a 'Conservative' and I would have thought that a small 'c', 'conservative' like you (tho' of course that is a relative and subjective term and can disguise a myriad political positions) .. would have understood some of what he's about !!!

what? I have to go refill my coffee . . . and quite honestly I'm fuking stunned. Apparently you didn't even bother to look at the PUKEcannon quotes I provided a link to . . . just a minute and I'll import a couple of . . . Of . . .

. . . hightlights . . .

.


in the sick bastards own words


.

  1. On race relations in the late 1940s and early 1950s: "There were no politics to polarize us then, to magnify every slight. The 'negroes' of Washington had their public schools, restaurants, bars, movie houses, playgrounds and churches; and we had ours."

  2. Buchanan, who opposed virtually every civil rights law and court decision of the last 30 years, published FBI smears of Martin Luther King Jr. as his own editorials in the St. Louis Globe Democrat in the mid-1960s. "We were among Hoover's conduits to the American people,"

  3. In a September 1993 speech to the Christian Coalition, Buchanan described multiculturalism as "an across-the-board assault on our Anglo-American heritage."

  4. "If we had to take a million immigrants in, say Zulus, next year, or Englishmen, and put them up in Virginia, what group would be easier to assimilate and would cause less problems for the people of Virginia?" ("This Week With David Brinkley," 1/8/91)

  5. Writing of "group fantasies of martyrdom," Buchanan challenged the historical record that thousands of Jews were gassed to death by diesel exhaust at Treblinka: "Diesel engines do not emit enough carbon monoxide to kill anybody."

  6. In a 1972 memo to Richard Nixon, Buchanan referred to one of George McGovern's leading financial contributors as a "screaming fairy."

  7. In a 1977 column urging a "thrashing" of gay groups, Buchanan wrote: "Homosexuality is not a civil right. Its rise almost always is accompanied, as in the Weimar Republic, with a decay of society and a collapse of its basic cinder block, the family." (New Republic, 3/30/92)

  8. Attacking what he considers the "democratist temptation, the worship of democracy as a form of governance," Buchanan commented: "Like all idolatries, democratism substitutes a false god for the real, a love of process for a love of country." (Patrick J. Buchanan: From the Right, newsletter, Spring/90)

  9. In Right from the Beginning, Buchanan refers to Spanish dictator Francisco Franco as a "Catholic savior." He called Franco, along with Chile's Gen. Pinochet, "soldier-patriots.

    • He called Franco, along with Chile's Gen. Pinochet, "soldier-patriots.
  10. Buchanan devotes a chapter of his autobiography -- "As We Remember Joe" -- to defending Senator Joe McCarthy.

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (18061) 3 months ago

What would his earlier abominable positions have to do with either me or his later positions re. 'anti-war' and Imperial Overreach ? Which of us is consistent all the time ? PB is a product of his culture and time and if he still holds those positions he's a dolt but I'm not just about to write off his more sane thoughts from the strength of your 18 year old source. When it comes to antiwar and pro-peace, I'm not as hard on right-wingers as I could be, as ... Peace Trumps Politics. Try this 10 year old piece perhaps :

pacem in terris ...

EDIT : You only had point #1 up there when I replied and unlike you, I'm no expert on PB but I agree with his Anti-War and Empire writings. You would like this to be something to try to attack my wider positions in your parDisan desperation to try to co-opt this forum for The DNC. You will fail to do that.

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

wow - I guess I really am dense. I was absolutely certain that inclusion of a few of his statements on homosexuals and homosexuality would bring your . . . your . . . PUKEcannon . . . . nonsense to a complete and screeching halt.

I see that simply is not so . . . not even when it is clear he views

  • Gen. Pinochet as a soldier-patriot

and anticommunist

  • Senator Joe McCarthy as a goddamned hero

you are so full of shit it really isn't funny. This does seem to make it clear your entire socialist position is a fraud. You're a front man for someone else. I'm sure your accent is a lie as well, so likely you front for some libertarian fuk out of texass or . . . or . . . Ken.tuck.eee . . .

you little Koch.sucker you

Peace trumps politics . . . my ass . . .

YOu tell that to the victims of Pinochet.

[-] 2 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

Truth on such subjects has been traditionally in short supply around here.

It was funny, that they tried like hell to drag me into their bullshit.

Those baptists, have based entire "ministries" on supporting those settlements. Hagee, is quite good at it.

Give till it hurts, to help bring on revelations.

It's like tying to get them to admit that Bush dragged us into Iraq to fight Gog and Magog.

But he did.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 2 months ago

omg!

  1. “We call for the repeal of the Occupational Safety and Health Act.”

  2. “We call for the abolition of the Consumer Product Safety Commission.”

  3. “We support the repeal of all state usury laws.”

now that's a wtf moment if ever there was one.

[-] -1 points by shooz (17868) 2 months ago

Who needs health and safety.

Let the markets decide. After all, they're full fledged citizens now, thanks to Citizens United.

Isn't great when we all come together?.

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[-] -1 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 2 months ago

“We urge the repeal of federal campaign finance laws, and the immediate abolition of the despotic Federal Election Commission."

oh yeah, its done alright.

[-] -1 points by shooz (17868) 2 months ago

Let the "election markets" decide.

Who needs to vote anyway?

There's no time for such silliness, when you have to work 90hrs a week to make the rest.

[-] -1 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 2 months ago

when you have to work 90hrs a week

I won't do it. I am not working 90 hours a week to eat and pay rent. Fuk that.

I'd sooner put a repelican on ice and eat soup of dandelion greens and repelican meat.

[-] -1 points by shooz (17868) 2 months ago

Repelican't gazpacho.

Just in time for Cinco De Mayo!

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34903) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

Sinka d mayo? oops I think that is a corp(se)oRat version of the holiday = end all life on d planet - same connection to all other holidays for the corp(se)oRats or any other day for that matter. ( ok now I "am" outta here )

[-] -1 points by shooz (17868) 2 months ago

Now with new improved, Blackwater.

Why build an Army, when you can lease one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OE17D8C6O4A

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34903) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

Now with no pesky code of conduct - privatization for profit running amok.

OK - seriously - I am outta here "now"

[-] -1 points by shooz (17868) 2 months ago

OK, it was good to see you again.

Feel well, and don't stay away so long.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34903) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

The "WE" being? = The few the proud the Marines..........um ooops sorry wrong recruitment commercial ............. lets try that again - The "WE" being? = The Few The Wealthy ( & corp(se)oRATions ) the Greedy ( otherwise known as the current plague that is killing the planet ).

[-] 1 points by nazihunter (318) 3 months ago

I think if you have enough money, you can buy your own slave state and see how it works for you. And it just make work for a good amount of time if you can replenish the slaves again and again. But, if there's any one person who doesn't agree this isn't in stark contrast to the Declaration of Independence, I would suggest testing for mental illness for that person.

[-] 1 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 3 months ago

This is the Koch agenda and they support public broadcasting, as long as public broadcasting doesn't shine the light on them.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

wait - wouldn't an easier question simply be:

  • how many of these do you abhor?

and even

  • how many of these will you actively stand up and oppose?

and thereby turn it into a litmus test with practical results . . . I mean, doesn't the redesign turn it into an inescapable set of dominoes that absolutely must fall?

Who could publicly remain silent? And by not remaining silent it all falls, doesn't it?

[-] 0 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

I could try re-branding it and see how it goes.

My guess is....there would be no difference in responses.

These are libe(R)tarians who refuse to see the damage libe(R)tarians have already done.

Let alone, admit to how they've done it.

Look at the insistence that some vague concept of duopoly, in ONE country, is the cause of every problem ever where in the world.

The US may be powerful, but not that powerful, nor ultimately, that effective.

That's why there's so fucking many conspiracy theories, tying the US in to every issue everywhere.

All that belief does is help hide the individuals who are actually causing many of these issues, through bribery and collusion there should be no doubt, bit there are many other ways they use to reach their profit goals.

The Ayn Rand philosophy is what is spreading these goals, weather by maintaining them in far flung parts of the World, or removing impediments to them, in this part.

That list.......is amazing proof, of the origins of the issue we are currently undergoing.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

My guess is....there would be no difference in responses.

yeah- no, not on here. But take the list to the public and see what happens. Get it before the people and get those with influence on the record.

Repelicans especially repelicans in office, will continue with their denial, and we've already seen a foreshadowing of their behavior right here. But get others talking about it, thinking about it, and hemmed into an acceptance that opposition to it is a necessity.

Once that happens it's game over.

.

on conspiracies .. . I thought this was interesting:

[-] 1 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

http://www.politicususa.com/2014/04/17/bernie-sanders-msnbc-koch-brothers-worst-nightmare.html

Bernie gets what the Koch's have done and are still doing.

why is it so hard for some people to get it?

oh, yeah.......they are the REAL partisans.

Why just the other day hchc openly admitted to politicizing everything he can.

The trolls cheered.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

The Senator is fantastic, isn't he?

It was really depressing to see him in NH all by himself the other weekend.

[-] 1 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

They run away from the list, like scared little rabbits.

the truth hurts.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

it's like I said before - usher the people out of one door and wheel the money in the other.

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[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

ooo, now see? that's the kind of thing we need to link back to so we can keep it in their face all day long.

After all, I've heard it said vampires can't stand the sight of their own reflection - that seems likely to remain true of vampire squids and their little minions

[-] 0 points by AlexanderLaMar (0) 3 months ago

vampires can't see their own reflection how can you get that wrong?

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

o well I knew it was something like that to explain the repulsive nature of mirrors - I don't make a practice of hunting them so I'm really not up on all of the various maxims pertaining to . . . wair folk . . .

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[-] 0 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

The list has already driven them to the brink.

They have no idea, how to address it.

The Koch's have made many of these things "mainstream" through clever use of media, and phony grass roots campaigns.

All while buying every once of government that they could.

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

And it isn't just government they've been attempting to purchase - both media and academia have been in their sights a long long time and that is illustrated with the dismantling of the Fairness Doctrine.

It is just now coming together for them with the Supreme Court decisions and money in politics - soon it isn't likely there will be any method of stopping them.

[-] 1 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

They continue to point at the puppets, while ignoring the puppetmasters.

Meanwhile they had almost nothing to say in ANY of the many threads you and I have started on global warming.

Kinda like they all bought into the Koch propaganda on the subject.

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

hc used to run around here with some BetsyRoss and together worked to deny global warming as a team. Sort of what shadz and flipper have been doing this morning on another front.

This place has been a consistent target of theirs from the beginning, you and GF spotted them before I did, but with the issue of Global Warming they were impossible to miss.

Which must be a big part of the reason we don't see hc taking credit for being hc any more. He claimed a completely untenable position. So has shadz with pukechanon but hey. OWS hasn't officially declared a position regarding Libertarians who support Pinochet.

[-] 2 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

Pinochet, is long dead and he was but a puppet of the libe(R)tarian "philosophy", it's the Koch's and their ilk we need to know about today, as it is they, who are pushing that philosophy down our collective throats today......

http://www.vice.com/read/shock-news-a-princeton-study-revealed-that-america-is-an-oligarchy

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

How optimistic are you for American democracy? - Well, not particularly. Realistically, looking at the situation and given the increase in economic inequality, it’s really hard to see where improvement would come from.

Interesting.

I've a plethora of suggestions

[-] 1 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

Now you know why I get so angry with those that are so fucking uselessly obsessed with puppets. Both here and in real life.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

you encounter sock puppets in real life?

[-] 1 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

In real life, I am referring to those that are obsessed with things like FLAKESnews. Indeed, any news source that ignores the effect that folks like the Koch's have on what's left our "system".

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

of course. The fox news anchor is a Koch Sock Puppet . . .

; D

[-] 0 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

FLAKESnews, itself is another tell.

There are those here who won't say a word against them, without mentioning the nonexistent "liberal press".

another FLAKESnews lie, gone mainstream.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

one of them was running around here the last couple weeks or so cheering how fuxsnud was the fastest growing newscast in terms of popularity.

silly fukers

and they whine about my behavior - I just thought it was in these days . . .

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[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago
[-] 0 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

Who translated that?

Yet another libe(R)tarian?

Yet another global warming denialist?

Here's the future you are bringing on.

http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/04/jared-diamond-inquiring-minds-humanity-survival

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[-] -2 points by flip (5207) 3 months ago

oh no - you are in danger of being removed by those in power. careful now - better not be non partisan

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[-] -1 points by flip (5207) 3 months ago

shortcomings - who could you be thinking of? I am thinking of contacting the people who run the site and asking if we can ban a few words - libe(R)tarian, lair, puppet, troll, motherfucker, Koch sucker - maybe then there would be some serious dialogue. too bad - I imagine that you have had interaction at actual ows locations. with people who are doing real work - stopping foreclosures and feeding sandy victims. what a difference from this shit. keep beating the drum man - that's all we can do. I assume the dogboy and shitz will respond to both of us - they must read everything on the site - who has time for that? they often respond to me when I write to others - weird no?

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[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

so basically what they support is a series of fiefdoms or some form of monarchy maintained on the backs of serfs nationwide.

Are their own words, and those Congressional efforts that have since followed along those lines, not enough to find the lot of them guilty of seditious conspiracy and treason?

Have we not now, finally, achieved a status where it is undeniably justified and most necessary in the interests of the preservation of this nation -- that We The People must remove by force the heads of all those who have advocated and so pursued a path so contrary to our national interest?

I speak of men, conservatives all, who did and without remorse of any kind, insist that the issue found upon a single blue dress was far more pressing than any act of international terror committed against these United States.

[-] 0 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

Shhhh, you're not supposed to notice.

Look!

Over there!!

A president!!

When will these "people" figure out, that presidents come and go. ALEC and the Koch mechanism remains, apparently in unobserved perpetuity.

And therein lies the illusion of a duopoly.

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

exactly

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[-] 0 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

Check out the first item on the list and compare it to the recent SCOTUS decision.

now ask yourself.........who asked for that?

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

and the fukers are foaming at the mouth in anticipation of passing the rest of their list into U.S. legal history . . .

the seditious whores and treasonous conspirators

[-] 0 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

Isn't it amazing how much effort some people put into avoiding the realities this list points out?

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

amazing? not really. Shameful perhaps. What is amazing is that the fukers have made progress campaigning on and implementing points on that list.

the fukers really should be shot.

[-] 0 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

NO,no. no, no!

I don't want to look,

say the the so called politically smart posters around here.

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

well, it is disturbing . . . I guess there are certain advantages in not having to admit that.

[-] 0 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

It's disturbing in so far as some of the items on that list, are items they've been promoting.

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[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

taxes? Look at the IRS - Look at the Post Office - they have very successfully diminished both agencies.

Just proposing the Paul Ryan budget - if the repelican party is not utterly decimated, they will continue pushing to completely dismantle every single shred of the FDR safety net that remains.

[-] 0 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

They have been co-opted, infiltrated and infested. They will continue, until the entire list is law.

Libe(R)topia!

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

I have no doubt.

If we identified the virtual parliament that Chomsky mentioned, it's individual members, who they speak with on a day to day basis, what they say, and how the whole thing works . . .

and then just did whatever needed to be done to get them to push for legislative measures that limit their own power . . .

I'm not saying the process would be pretty, but it would be simpler than attempting to take over the entire political process as a whole

[-] 0 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

My issue with guys like Chomsky, or Hedges, is the issue I have with so many around here.

They like to pretend that 50 States don't matter.

ALEC and the Koch's, know better.

they know, that......

As go the States, so goes the Nation.

[-] -2 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

each state has it's own history, it's own demographic makeup, it's own set of political alliances, economy, industrial leaders. I've noted that with Chomsky the tendency seems to be to simply ignore the entire breadth of influence that surrounds every decision the President makes - as if he has complete autonomy or something.

I saw on tv a clip of Obama in Turkey - I've looked for it online and couldn't find it. They scared the shit out of that man. And then came the Air Force One flyby over NY.

I'm certain it didn't end there.

[-] 0 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

" simply ignore the entire breadth of influence that surrounds every decision the President makes"

All while completely ignoring the least productive, laziest, most incompetent, Congress in history.

[-] -2 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

It really isn't difficult to understand the attraction for the same same argument.

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[-] 0 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

Here's the original posting, with comments from Bernie, so there can be no confusion about how he feels.

http://www.sanders.senate.gov/koch-brothers

I feel the same.

Oh, and tell me again about how libe(R)tarians have no influence, it's just 2 parties that are intrinsically the same.

Which one was used, to the highest degree, to put many of these items in place?

Which one is primarily being used today, to further this agenda?

[-] -3 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

just a moment ago < the comment above > was negative one point - and none of the other comments in this short branch had been touched.

I'm just gonna go out on a wild assed limb and say

  • hit a nerve didn't I mutherfukers

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[-] 2 points by grapes (2765) 3 months ago

Look at ZenDog's Recent Comments. There are TWO twinkle point lines instead of one. His comment was, "You've been here longer than me, by.." Somehow my Pandora app was activated and later on my computer locked up and I had to reboot. Weird but true, maybe we touched a raw nerve inadvertently today, probably due to the anthrax comment just under ZenDog's "longer" comment listed under Recent Comments. Perhaps ZenDog's userid was spoofed and I was tricked. Also when I save a just-edited comment (the anthrax/drone no-fly zone one, as it turned out) I have to press the save button TWICE.

[-] -1 points by shooz (17868) 3 months ago

They really don't like this list much.

It proves what I've been saying all along.

Libe(R)tarians, have been fucking stuff up in a VERY serious way

[-] -1 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

yeah-ya - libertarians with connections

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[-] -1 points by ZenDog (13515) from South Burlington, VT 3 months ago

yes it has, thoroughly and completely, by



. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . stupid fuking repelicans . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .



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[-] -1 points by shooz (17868) 2 months ago

“We call for the repeal of the Occupational Safety and Health Act.”

Of course they do. They like having their own random death panels.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/04/27/major-explosion-texas-based-koch-industries-plant/

They have lawyers on retainer to deal with all of that.

health and safety costs precious money they would prefer to spend buying government.

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 months ago

then they should invest in insurance

ain't nothing about property and drone assassination in it

nothing about providing healthcare as opposed to selling insurance

ain't nothing about dealing with the greater imbalance of ownership and money which is become more and more arbitrary by the day

ain't nothing about updating an antiquated the system of governance

ain't nothing about the US be the top weapons seller to the world

[-] 0 points by shooz (17868) 2 months ago

I'm sure some of those have been added to the list, since it was written.

If only because some of those things on the list are nearing completion.

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