Forum Post: Do you want to be wealthy (monetarily)?
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 11, 2011, 4:54 p.m. EST by Rob
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simple yes or no please
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In my case, I just want to be middle class. I have no desire to exploit others to get rich. Neither I have the desire to allow others to exploit me.
Unfortunately, I was born in a game that was rigged from the start. Where one can either be a hammer or a nail. Those are the two choices. Which is a pity, as I would rater have allies than subordinates or bosses.
why would you have to exploit others to get rich?
Look around you, can you name one person that got to be rich by a just pay for its work and not by the works of others?
You either use others work, or exaggerate the value of your own work to be rich. (Like in the case of lawyers).
As of yes/no. No, I have no interest on becoming rich.
Yes or no
To me the answer should be yes and that requires the OPPORTUNITY to be wealthy. Corruption removes the American dream. It destroys the promise of OPPORTUNITY
Exactly! We need a level playing field.
Stupid question with no qualifiers. Yes, if I can do it legitimately and morally.
Do you know how to drive a car? yes or no?
More stupid questions ;-) Of course I do, after I learned how to do so by following guidelines and rules. And when I break those rules I get a ticket (when I get caught)
Not stupid, just pointing out that yes or no is a sufficient answer when asked. No qualifier needed.
no qualifier is needed for shallow thinkers
Do we have 1 moon orbiting our planet?
to a shallow thinker, a question about one's desire for wealth is in the same universe as a scientific question about the moon. like i wrote earlier, hit up the fox news/commentary audience for yes/no answers, which seem to work well with them. good luck.
Why do you resort to deriding someone when disagreeing with the line of questioning? There really is no reason to move into a defensive posture. I am seeking answers and sampling results.
you're not seeking answers; someone such as you doesn't have the ability to seek answers.
also, most would say I'm in the offensive, not defensive, posture
i'll save you some time, moron. 99.9% of the dumbasses who actually subject themselves to your arbitrary constraint of a yes/no answer will answer "yes." but the very fact that 99.9% of the respondents provide the same answer tells you that your polling (sampling) is dubious. or shall i say that it tells people who know anything about polling or sampling (which actually requires some deep thinking) that your experiment was dubious. i'm telling you, go to the fox news/commentary audience, you'll get what you want. good luck.
It is a pity you choose not to participate.
and it's a gain for the rest of us
Yes it is, because if I answer YES. And you say, you have to kill 1000 puppies and you will be rich, then I will say NO. So, you see, it's not that simple. I really wish it was, but isn't!
no, I just want to know it you want to be wealthy, no qualifiers on my part, no what if's.
OK, I see you already did that. Monetarily, yes.
why do you want to be wealthy?
So I can provide for my family comfortably in our materialistic society
So, to my original post, stupid question without qualifiers, since you ended up asking for them anyway.
Think of this as an interview
So, what is your answer. Yes or No for yourself. And why?
Seems I missed the question(s)
Do you want to be wealthy? Why?
Yes. Because my desire is to see that my family tree has the ability to flourish as well as change the way it is growing. I do believe in philanthropy, but only by administering it anonomously(too many leaches ready to latch on). I do desire the finer things for myself and my family and I also desire to live in a much nicer place than I am now. I am not looking for insulation from society, but I do want to distance myself from those that do not share my values.
how far and what dark places will you go to attain the above? don't worry, you don't have to keep it simple.
Through legal means, of course. The issue is that you may not approve and thus call me immoral or unethical though you would not have a clue as to what sacrifices I made to achieve my desired goal.
news flash, moronic martryr - your sacrifices don't mean shit to me and most others
You asked, no reason to make a snide comment.
So we share the same basic values ;-)
I like the anonymous contribution idea. Perhaps that's the way we could allow corporations to contribute to the political party of their choosing? Double sided blind contributions would, in theory, allow for private funding of political parties without back scratching
Yes of course you moron. Who wants to be poor? Seriously.
Personal attacks are not warranted, seriously.
In a monetary system I would strive for monetary stability and self-sufficiency.
Although, a wealth of knowledge holds far more value than monetary wealth.
I want all to be wealthy in all ways.
I want a way in which i can meaningfully contribute towards the global civilization without exploiting others for money.
I want a planet left for the children of today and for their children.
My answer is no.
Water, trees, food, friends - this is the wealth which belongs to everyone, the pursuit of money is what destroys these things.
Who wouldn't want to be wealthy?
False dichotomy. You force a binary choice that does not reflect reality.
Define monetary wealth. Is there some magic number at which you are suddenly considered wealthy? Is this number even the same in different parts of the country? The world?
Those are good questions, but not really what I am looking for as a response. Thank you.
Hi! Hope this response is more what you're looking for!
No.Well maybe a bit.
People want prosperity. Accumulating paper is soul destroying.
Yes i want the whole world to live in Peace and as a result all will be prosperous.
to say no you'd be lying
I am pretty wealthy. And I'm confident I'll still be pretty wealthy, even if my taxes go up.
If you mean ridiculously ostentacious wealth, no.
tl;dr besides, he said yes or no
i say no
Why not?
i'm sure you'd like it simple, which says something about you
Have you ever been on an interview? You are asked a simple question and then if needed it is expanded upon. I am looking for quick, simple answers here and then if I desire I will expand.
good luck understanding anything complex with your abitrary constraints. lazy and uncreative minds require simple answers - as dull as an interview on Fox news/commentary
By virtue of the fact that you can read this (or anything else), have internet access, and a computer to respond to it on. You're probably richer than most people in the world.
Not the question.
YES! i want enough money to swim in it like Scrooge McDuck, so long as i dont have to impoverish anyone else to do it.
OK. But I am no familiar with this Mr. Mcduck. Must be a distller in Scotland.
It would depend on what I'd have to do be wealthy. If I need to use other people in ways that seem unethical. No.
I'll play this game, and if you want to come out looking like a moron, you can go ahead and play along.
Yes.
Define "wealthy" though.
Some people have come here believing they "are the 1%" then we find out they earn 50K a year.
Wealth to me is having enough to be comfortable and give to the people I love, do things I care about and that I love and not have to feel enslaved to a job I hate. I don't need a billion dollars worth of assets to have that.
Is the means to get there, your name? Then, no. There is robbing going on already.
No, just shotened my name a bit. Roberzenskijovanovichka is just a pain to type, you understand, don't you?
Sort of, mine is only four letters and it isn't work or **.
[Deleted]
i believe that society, to which we all should contribute, provides the opportunity
How naive you are! Wars and poverty surely wouldn't end. In the course of humankind wars and poverty have always existed and always will. There will always be the rich and the poor and wars will certainly continue long after you have died. A Utopian world has been tried and has always failed why?? Because humankind strives to be rich and to do better. And it strives to make war.
if i had a choice between ending world poverty and being extremely wealthy, i'd pick ending world poverty. i bet all kinds of wars and crime and shit would end too.
a simple yes or no would have been sufficient.
no it wouldn't
This question was not for you. Thank you
you're welcome
yes
do you have a follow up point?
Why would you like to be wealthy?
because money can be exchanged for resources
and there are a lot of resources i really like
what kind of resources and to whose benefit?
all kinds: food, water, shelter, electricity, internet, transportation, entertainment, medicine...just a few
and giving me these resources helps me, at minimum
and to whose benefit would you use these resources?
if i pay my taxes, and those taxes go to helping people eat, ending poverty, and paying for police and soldiers...i guess my resources could be used to benefit the whole world
what if you had all of your money taken away and given to others who are "less fortunate"? Thus raising them up and lowering you down.
that'd make me super sad
i would be pissed. it's not fair to have all your money taken away unless you are a criminal. if i had to hand more but not all of my money to the government, but knew that money would be going to the betterment of the human race, i could accept that. i could still live a life of luxury and security if i was rich but not as rich as before. warren buffet and bill gates claim to feel that way, so i don't see why i wouldn't feel the same way.
any other questions? i appreciate you wanting to know what i think, honestly.
If you earned your wealth legally, emphasis on earned, and you are comfortable with the way you acquired it, but a group accused you of being immoral or unethical, what would your response be to them?
that's a good point, anytime we lump people into groups we unfairly overgeneralize. but it is just a matter of fact that US financial institutions knowingly sold subprime mortgage securities, saying they were AAA rated when they knew they were garbage, and were betting on these investments to fail! (if you're not familiar with this story, Michael Lewis' "The Big Short" is a great read and a non-partisan account of the subprime mortgage crisis)
it's silly to believe all one percenters are criminal, but the protest is definitely trying to rectify the injustice of our current system, which allows people who crashed our financial system and knowingly sold us bad assets to get off scott free, AND they collect record bonuses! it's one of the greatest swindles in human history. meanwhile, a homeless man that steals $100 gets 8 years in prison. you may not like OWS, but there are some understandable reasons why people who have seen their quality of life decline over the past 10 years would have all this frustration.
but to answer your question, i'd probably feel pretty similar to how people in poverty must feel when they are accused of being lazy when they feel like they've worked their ass off for what little they have.
I whole heartedly agree that their are major issues that need to be addressed, but stating that Wall Street is to blame for the sub-prime is too simplistic. The banks were forced by the Clinton administration to approve loans to those who could not afford it. The banks pushed back and received guarantees from the gov't through Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac that the loans would be backed. What do you suppose happened when those that could not afford the debt stppoed paying? We are living it. The Bush administration is culpable as well since Bush was aware of the looming issue, but did not push hard enough to fix it before the collapse. Keep in mind that because the securities were backed by the US gov't giving them the comfort that the investment was secured, they received the AAA rating. I do not like the OWS movement because of a personal issue and knowing someone who is involved and a facilitator, who's goal IS Marxism. I also believe that this is misguided as it is protesting the symptom and not the disease. You have been the most accommodating partner, and it is appreciated. I had these simple rules setup because a) I wanted to control the flow, and d) demonstrate the that most protesters want to grab the bully pulpit and show how intolerant they are to questions. If I were to meet one of you, this is how I would have a conversation, one on one, but unfortunately the conversation would be hijacked and I will not get the information I am looking for. Again, we are not that far of on a philisophical level, but it is the way it is being facilitated.
lol nice to meet you rob, i don't deny that most people are like that here, but i think that dumb belligerence comes with any large and unruly mobs. and all revolutionary mobs are necessarily large and unruly...
*i apologize in advance for a long response. i don't expect a long response in return
i actually feel philosophically more comfortable embracing ows, even though i may be put off by a lot of things people in this movement do or say, because it is founded on being decentralized (leaderless). i feel like i can walk into this movement and interpret it however i want. if it doesn't adequately reflect my views, well at least there's a accessible democratic process happening, a capitalism of ideas going on here.
meanwhile, i am convinced our own democratic process is corrupted by money interests. the American democracy i have in my heart (its cheesy, but i guess i was a good student in social studies) is a system where elected representatives have incentive to accurately represent the will of their voting constituencies, because if they don't, they will lose the next election.
however, in the 2008 elections, 94% of the winners had the most campaign funds. clearly money decides elections these days, and not the will of the people. we have been living in a tainted democracy for decades, and it has only escalated until present day. i believe this is the root of why only 12% of Americans these days approve of Congress. people feel poorly represented, and we shouldn't be surprised because the political system provides incentives for them to be poorly represented.
people are still culpable for voting for these assholes, but i don't expect people to get any smarter overnight. what i'm hoping for is to see the system get smarter overnight. i think we would have a more robust and wiser political system if we started calling lobbying bribery again and severely limited the amount an individual person can donate to a campaign to a maximum level that even impoverished Americans could afford. then we would have a system that would represent a much broader swath of the US population. i think that system would make smarter, more human decisions than one led by a small plutocracy.
anyway, while most people might seem dumb and self-centered in this mob, again i think that is true in every mob, and they just have different 'flavors.' i'm still inspired by the number of people i've found share my views here and can articulate them better than myself. it's early, and things could change, but i'm optimistic that this movement may eventually be able to improve our democracy in a very historically significant way.
i think the lobbyist and campaign donation issues transcend left/right boundaries, so i'd be interested what you think about it. if you're interested, check out dylan ratigan's www.getmoneyout.com campaign for an amendment that would drive money out of our election process. it has over 180,000 signatures in 2 weeks time, and ratigan enthusiastically supports occupy wall street so far. thanks for reading
i would ask them what they mean by legally, earned and comfort, whereas a shallow thinker would not
This question does not apply to you. Thank you
again, you're welcome
rob? :(
Long commute home
Yes, because we have the resources and technology to make everyone wealthy.
if everyone is wealthy it will only mean the poor have a lot more money.
Sure the poor would gain the most, but it will still mean everyone was wealthy.
If we simply allocated our income equally among every worker, everyone would get paid $127,000 per year. That is more than what 97% of all workers make and enough to make everyone wealthy.
How mush would a whopper cost if fast food workers are making 127k per year?
Burgers would cost the same as they are now. The costs will not go up for McDs because all their costs will remain roughly the same. The only thing that we are doing is taking EXISTING incomes and allocating them equally.
If you and I both worked at McDs and I was paid $15k and you were paid $239k, our total expenses would be $254k.
If we decided to pay each of us equally, my pay would go up to $127k and your pay would go down to $127k.
But our total expenses of $254k remains the same. So the burgers we sell will cost the same.
What would be the benefit of taking on responsibility?
I think every worker should be responsible, especially since you are getting paid at least $115k per year.
Do you mean why would someone become a store manager instead of a burger flipper? People enjoy having responsibility. Some, probably most, would rather be a store manager than a lowly burger flipper.
You could not pay me enough to do menial work. If my job is not important, where I get to make decisions and control the direction of some organization, I want no part of it.
Should you not be rewarded for taking on extra responsibilities?
how extra are they and who says they're extra?
I believe the only fair system is equal pay for equal effort.
Effort is just a function of the amount of time you work and whether the job you do is mentally or physically difficult. People who work twice the hours should obviously get paid twice the income. And people who work the difficult jobs, the jobs in science, computers, engineering, medicine, construction, mining, or farming, should get paid more than the people who work jobs that are not difficult.
I do not believe being a store manager should be considered a difficult job. Of course, that is debatable.
Not even capitalism is about accumulation of money for the sake of it, capital is only money that is being put to use in enterprise.
I value independence and freedom more than money. I strive to be part of a community that values me and strives for long term sustainability.
I can see you have a problem with simple things like instruction, why is that? I will use you as an example as to why your movement is bound to fail. You are asked a legitimate question with a a simple answer, yet you feel it necessary to rant and rave about nonsensical stuff that has nothing to do with the question. you will not be able to hold the attention of anyone who may be remotely interested in what you have to say because you failed to answer the first simple question.
correction - we will not be able to hold the attention of the likes of you and we're perfectly okay with that. we don't care about getting attention from the likes of you because, if it must begin with a simple question, your attention is shallow and simple-minded and probably isn't worth much.
Then you lost your cause and the reason for its existence. You are picking and choosing those that you deem worthy to join you.
no and yes
go to Fox news/commentary for simple answers. not here
What are you talking about? Are you sure you are reading correctly? You replied to my 2 sentence post calling it a rant.
Because I asked for yes or no, nothing more
Then no.
Why not?
Why do I not wish to have, say, 20 million dollars in the bank? I like to know where my money comes from and I can't imagine where that would come from that would be legitimate. I think unearned money can be very bad for you. I think money is only as good as where it came from. I think if I achieved all of my goals overnight, it wouldn't feel like I accomplished anything.
Whereas if I were to acquire 20 million dollars over the next 20 years because I am really good at what I do, I would never have that money sitting around, I would have created companies with it, I would have built an eco-village with it, I wouldn't have much of it left lying around.
And I would still be earning more of it because I had earned it with my skill, not my luck. Skill lasts, luck does not.
This is what it means to me to be a serious person.
Just like Bush, didn't get the answer you wanted so you kick and scream. Grow up dude, life is more complicated then yes and no only answers.
is it?
Yea. It could be simplified in some regards. But, due to the diversity of cognitive thought in the world, it will never be again.
DUH! We are wealthy....The Banks, Corporate America, politicians, and greed from sham artists like CEO'S (hint) have defrauded this nation with their cloak of deception. This is our country, our government, and our lives that have been hijacked due to the ill gotten gains off our hard work!!!
The simple answer is, "nope." Don't need it.
The real answer to your question is, "at what cost?"
No cost, no qualifiers, all legal.
no, it was a yes or no question, no qualifiers.
Then it's a terrible question. Because every decision you make in life comes with consequences, and you have to know what those consequences are in order to make a rational decision.
Have you ever taken the stand in a trial? You only get to answer yes or no when instructed to do so. You will be asked more if the person asks you for more, otherwise you can be told to shut up.
the world is not your courtroom (thank god we are spared such a dull existence)
When you have the legal authority of the courts - and their supposed lack of bias - you can make these kinds of demands. I might still resist; we'll see.
But for now, as you serve no higher purpose than your own self-glorification, I respectfully decline to engage in this simplistic farce.
no farce here, just curiosity.
curiosity??? Hmmm, not really (if you had an ounce of integrity in you)
You are not looking at the big picture regarding these questions and the way responses are being given. This should be a learning exercise for you, if you would just take a few moments to contemplate why I would be doing this using a simplistic format.
rob sounds crabby
yes. I"m an entrepreneur who created my own business from nothing. I now employ 2 of us full time. It's okay if my business never grows beyond what it is, but with over 43,000 customers in 10 years, the challenge is to create 430,000 customers (and a few new jobs/employees) in the next 10 year.
I will never apologize for wanting to be wealthy.
http://www.JustPaperRoses.com http://www.JeffBlock2012.com
No I'd rather be poor. If you're rich you've got to work all hours, sacrifice family time, and pay a lot of bills. If you're poor all you have to do is have a good time at the beach and eat out of garbage cans!
You lost me at "I'd".
he said "No" before "I'd", moron. who do you work for?
You are correct. Everything after "I'd" was not necessary.
Sorry.