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Forum Post: David Graeber: Bullshit Jobs

Posted 1 year ago on Aug. 21, 2013, 6:07 p.m. EST by shoozTroll (17632)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

"In the year 1930, John Maynard Keynes predicted that, by century’s end, technology would have advanced sufficiently that countries like Great Britain or the United States would have achieved a 15-hour work week. There’s every reason to believe he was right. In technological terms, we are quite capable of this. And yet it didn’t happen. Instead, technology has been marshaled, if anything, to figure out ways to make us all work more. In order to achieve this, jobs have had to be created that are, effectively, pointless. Huge swathes of people, in Europe and North America in particular, spend their entire working lives performing tasks they secretly believe do not really need to be performed. The moral and spiritual damage that comes from this situation is profound. It is a scar across our collective soul. Yet virtually no one talks about it. "

See more at: http://www.occupy.com/article/graeber-phenomenon-bullshit-jobs#sthash.vTJkQFfh.dpuf

http://www.strikemag.org/bullshit-jobs/

122 Comments

122 Comments


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[-] 2 points by elf3 (2954) 1 year ago

You know, baby boomers got something called job-training - most people don't need a four year degree to do the bullshit they do but baby boomers aren't just selfish with their stuff, they are selfish when it comes to upward mobility and information They want you to pay for it (they are still in denial about the cost of living for younger generations compared to what they were dealing with starting out - not that it matters - they don't believe in pay it forward anyway. And they won't give you an inch in the workplace. Both supervisors and co-workers - their goal seems to be to make your life a living hell, they don't want to train you - why should they train you ....why should they be nice to you? They believe that everyone but themselves are lazy imbeciles who don't deserve a break and they spend their days on the job figuring out ways to prove you are stupid they enjoy giving others a rough time (especially if you're skinnier than them - then you deserve full fledged punishment). They are experts at taking advantage of other people - they are relentless, and they won't rest until they have taken every last piece of your will to try.

Same with unions watch every last union baby boomer crash the entire union and screw the younger generations for the sake of their own pensions. "Why should they give you any of the benefits they had?" Why should they pay it forward? They will destroy the union and it has nothing to do with politicians it has to do with creating second class union members who don't have the same rights and privileges as the baby boomers get - every chance they have to cut the younger people's benefits - they do it as long as they get an even greater pension increase they don't care if the younger members have insurance, or retirement, or no vacations or work more hours than they do. Corporations aren't hiring enough young people to balance out the votes. (And Corporations know that the younger generation probably won't forget how the boomers screwed them when they have the chance oneday to vote away their pensions.)

Our entire economy is symptomatic of a generation that pulled the ladder up behind themselves and then burned the rope so no one else could ever climb it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1Sal6N5OiE

Keep on driving around in your over-priced vehicles whose identity plate should read shallow - just a bunch of old sad sell-outs who can only see their inner selves by peering at their reflection in the window of a BMW or Mercedes. Guess what? you won't find your youth in there. Other generations found their legacy in what they gave to future generations -but baby boomers (I know I'm generalizing but fuck it I don't hear the non-sell outs talking about this disgusting mentality) find their legacy in what they can take to the grave ...which reads "I am so and so and I drove a Mercedes, I never paid a thing forward and good luck future generations gripping it out of my cold dead hands, I didn't work as hard as you will have to but nonetheless - MINE"

Sad thing is the Millennials are exactly the same - a competitive jealous self-involved generation who don't know - America thrived because of pay it forward (not "Mine") and theses types are in the process of destroying what made America great; The idea that all could prosper, and that human beings don't have to mindlessly compete against one another for a legacy of what amounts to (toys) or for status but could instead live more simply and share opportunity and teach others to be prosperous as well and value ideas and information and sharing it so that we can all be better for it and all live a decent (not extravagant) existence.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

I'm sorry.

I didn't cut my hair.

You?

[-] 2 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 1 year ago

I believe the entire area of debt suspension rights for consumers, or the lack of them, plays into this pointless job paradigm. Not only does credit card debt ensnare people with it's deceptive 2% monthly minimum payment, but there are NO EXCUSES for needing a break from what is allegedly an unsecured debt no matter what. Hurricane Sandy comes along, actually destroying your place of work, too bad.

Then, to make matters worse, a debtor's premium on credit card debt suspension insurance is overpriced by a factor of 2000%, insuring they don't buy it and instead can be labeled a defaulter if a life changing event occurs beyond their control

The ensuing credit card default than leads to a higher debt load, forcing the person to take dumber and less meaningful jobs creating unnecessary consumption of valuable resources just to stay afloat.

[-] 6 points by elf3 (2954) 1 year ago

What's more unbelievable is the FICO is still a secret - they could be giving you a lower credit score for any reason they so choose and the government allows it, doesn't regulate it, and does not force disclosure on how the scores are being configured. Got blue eyes, got black skin, are you a woman, do you have rich parents, are you a member of Occupy? All of this could be a factor and yet we all go on marching along to the tune of FICO as though it is a stamp on our souls and measure of our ability to live in this world. Why is such a system allowed to exist privately to regulate every member of the public with no measure of ethics? Of course the lower your score the higher your interest and fees, and isn't it in the banks best interest to see that the company they pay to score you has a scoring system that keeps that score low? The scoring systems have expanded into the rental market, as well as the insurance industry, as well as for jobs. Scoring systems are popping up left and right to track you and ensnare you into a system of rules and regulations that the banks and big business will never have to follow themselves so that you will be forced to pay a toll to live - which they will profit from.

[-] 1 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 1 year ago

all true, however, we can choose not to have debt if we are warned early enough in life. You can also get your score and challenge anything in it and if there is no response I think the blemish is removed.

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

we still must pay rent and eat

let's not pretend we live in a non-debt based economy

[-] 2 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 1 year ago

Every year you find a new apartment to live in but the prior apartments still sends you a bill for one month's rent. Over time those one month yearly bill suffocate your spending ability which in turn suffocates your ability to hire local people for prospective opportunities and you lose the opportunity to get hired as well.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

as money leaves the system

so does productivity

[-] 1 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 1 year ago

Well, it doesn't leave, it goes into the pockets of the already rich elite. Then some or more than some of that money gets "recycled" into the economy in the form of high interest rate loans.

However, that money would work just as fine if it was recirculated through many sets of hands in a local community. The irony is that the government would win as well as the repercolation of money on a local level increases wage earnings and revenue which then increases the local and national tax revenue.

Unfortunately, the rich elite simply buy their way back into government upend this process via credit card debt and now also student loan debt.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

One of the points, is that it keeps prices artificially high.

It's a great way to hide excess profits.

[-] 1 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 1 year ago

Are you referring to stores like Target and their 23% interest rate charges on their credit card? If a person can't pay off the debt and can only pay the minimum every month, over 50% of their monthly minimum payment simply goes towards the interest rate charge.

I would suggest this is how they can actually keep their prices slightly lower, they care less about the products they sell and more about the monthly residual income off of their credit card customers.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Well, they have to pay those people in those bullshit administrative jobs.

You didn't think they would let a thing like that lower profits, did you?

WallStreet would pull their funds and close them down, if they did.

[-] 2 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 1 year ago

correction, 64% of the monthly minimum payment on a Target Credit Card goes to the interest payment only. Target is a bank camouflaged as a department store.

this is the number one issue that is assisting in the erosion of wealth from main street. The comical part is Target is trying to switch their customers to debit cards but the employees are completely oblivious to the fact that customers who can only pay their monthly minimum cannot afford to pay their monthly minimum AND pay cash for new stuff as well.

The Target executives are so elitist they just can't comprehend the concept of actually helping their customers get off the credit cards by offering incentives, instead they just try to offer the unrealistic avenue, debit cards for those already in debt.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Visa/Master card have all kinds of bullshit jobs.

It's not just Target, and Sears is even worse.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22351) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

And now - underpaid employees can get pay-day loans "JOY" and pay up to like 700% interest rates. Geeze with help like this - the homeless numbers will spike - AGAIN.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22351) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

I don't remember usury ever being made legal in the USA - just another prosecutorial oversight?

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Yeah, it was.

Something to do with adjustable rate mortgages.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (22351) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

OOOO yeah - give em an inch and they will destroy the world - or something like that.

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

OMG ... the ''U'' word .. thanx & solidarity DKAt ! What's next ?!! 'Compound Interest' ?!!!

multum in parvo ...

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22351) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

'Compound Interest' ?

Another reason for national healthcare - compounded daily fractures of the economy.

plus a flexible upwardly mobile Anal percentage rate?

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

Re. 'C.I.' : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compound_interest & shooot, at this 'rate' (geddit?) we'll be speaking about 'Jubilee' soon, hmmmmm ;-)

verum ex absurdo ...

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22351) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

& shooot, at this 'rate' (geddit?)

Shotgun Cheney ( Shotgun Dick ? prematurely(?) fired at the target(?) ) would - he just luuuvs his banker.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22351) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Compound_interest - what a scam Hey?

we'll be speaking about 'Jubilee' soon

Damn straight - when the collapse ends it's artificial stall and continues it's final dive to the Big Crash & Burn. Well then - forgiving everyone of everything and starting from scratch - well - it just sounds pretty damn reasonable ( shit - jinx ).

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

"A Radical Solution Whose Time Has Come ; Public Banking may be a radical solution, but it is also an obvious one. This is not rocket science. By developing a sound public banking system, governments can keep the interest and reinvest it locally ... that means public savings of 35% to 40%. Costs can be reduced across the board; taxes can be cut or services can be increased; and market stability can be created for governments, borrowers and consumers. Banking and credit can become public utilities, feeding the economy rather than feeding off it." from :

radix omnium malorum est cupiditas ...

[-] 3 points by LeoYo (5909) 1 year ago

There should be no interest. A public bank should be supported by the same taxes that support other public institutions. When a loan is made, it should come from fractional reserves. When the zero interest loan is paid back, the bank should keep the money for future loans. That way it's not causing inflation by being kept in the regular economy. Since the money was created out of nothing, it should be repaid for nothing as any interest to go into the general economy will result in inflation.

In short, state banks that operate as the central banks of their state and use fractional reserves for zero interest loans will put the private bankers out of business. Zero interest public bank credit cards could even come out of it for the benefit of consumers.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22351) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Kind of like having a national "Not For Ripoff....um I mean - Profit" Credit Union.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22351) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

"A Radical Solution Whose Time Has Come ; Public Banking may be a radical solution, but it is also an obvious one. This is not rocket science. By developing a sound public banking system, governments can keep the interest and reinvest it locally ... that means public savings of 35% to 40%.

Makes a lot of "sense" ( damn - "jinx" - gotta stop doing that - puts a curse on good actions every time ).

[-] 1 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 1 year ago

I went to the CFPB meeting in Los Angeles back in May of 2013. The payday industry was there in incredible numbers. They actually made some valid points. It can be cheaper to get a payday loan than write a bad check and face bank fees of 20 to 40 dollars.

There are other instances where someone absolutely positively has to have 50 or a100 bucks knowing they can pay it back in a short time, and the only place that helped them was a pay day loan place.

I personally was kind of bummed out that I may have been one of less than five of the 50 public speakers who had other issues to discuss besides payday loans.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

It’s not entirely clear how humanity would suffer were all private equity CEOs, lobbyists, PR researchers, actuaries, telemarketers, bailiffs or legal consultants to similarly vanish. - See more at: http://www.occupy.com/article/graeber-phenomenon-bullshit-jobs#sthash.vTJkQFfh.bshc2sr6.dpuf

Amen.

There is a flip side of this. Many of those people that are in those pointless jobs face large amounts of people that spend their entire time making sure that they know that their jobs are pointless.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Or in the case of certain corporate lawyers.............downright evil. In any case I like David and found the story thought provoking.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

I like his writing too.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Do you have the one where he talks about right wingers?

I heard it before but I can't seem to find it now.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

I am disappointing, that the magical Japanese couldn't build a robot to take care of their nuclear problem.

I guess that only works in comic books and anime.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22351) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Wait just a minute before we jump too far forward in the story. They are just about to try to freeze ( yep folks - freeze ) all of the ground beneath fukashima. This will no-doubt rouse Godzilla or Mothra or or or

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

You'll excuse me if I fail to understand how they're going to keep it frozen in perpetuity.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22351) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Good question - though I suppose the further you go down into the ground - the more static the temperature - They are gonna have a hell of a time just trying to freeze the whole area ( completely ). What they are proposing has never been done before - never even been tried before.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Another good question not to ask is......How many of our nuclear power plants are past their "expiration date"?

EDIT: All of them.

http://www.alternet.org/environment/former-chairman-nuclear-regulatory-commission-says-every-single-reactor-us-should-be

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22351) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Sounds like an awesome opportunity to replace them all with thorium reactors - Hey?

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Or any number of other non fossil fuel energy sources.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22351) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Implementing liquid metal batteries for storage of and delivery of electricity.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

According to FLAKESnews, only "tropical" countries like Germany have any hope of doing that..............:)

Meanwhile, with the election of a "Murdock selection", Oz appears to be ready to hop back on the pollution be damned bandwagon.

http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2013/09/how-climate-change-became-killing-fields-australias-election

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22351) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Politicians and it seems most everyone else do not know how to address fighting global warming climate change in a positive manner. Yes when they speak of it - they are correct in saying that we have got to stop using fossil fuel - BUT then they do not go on to show all of the other technologies that are available for use to replace fossil fuel - if they talk up alternatives it is generally Wind or Solar power - there is so much more - they also do a poor job of even communicating the progress in those two fields as the technology advances. BUT the main failure is still not communicating clearly the employment opportunities available to switching over from fossil fuel - nor the prosperity as well as health that it can engender.

[-] 1 points by wolfe23 (4) from Austin, TX 1 year ago

Graeber mentions that virtually no one talks about it... and while true, here is an Excellent book that does talk about it in depth.

Shop Class as SoulCraft. http://www.matthewbcrawford.com/

While this book is in no way specifically anarchist... an anarchist analysis may well dovetail with it very nicely. It does look at some of thee mechanisms by which many BS jobs came to be pushed on folx... or more specifically how thee information economy was pushed onto us. It also does a remarkably insightful job of critiquing/deconstructing corporate culture.

I'd highly recommend it to everyone.

While it is based on individual choices towards more fulfillment in life, and not political changes to thee system at large... I believe thee analysis contained within would be useful for bringing about larger changes...

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Looks like an interesting read.

I'm one of those that feels some kind of "trade", should be an integral part of everyone's education.

For a fun movie, see " The World's Fastest Indian". Rent it and watch the documentary too.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

people don't talk about bullshit jobs at work for fear of losing their income

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Union YES!

Just one more reason.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

the reasons are food and shelter not jobs

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Many of us bald apes, prefer to opt for some form of choice.

We haven't opted for much beyond some form of barter, to deal with that.

We were on the other hand, speaking on the subject of jobs.

In most unions, you can bitch all you want about your job, without fear of getting fired, and that was the point I was making..

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

good point

who presents the choice ?

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Mostly WallStreet.

what else is new?

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

the tax system to keep money with the general population has been dismantled

politicians use the term tax payer like only the rich *those that pay taxes" have any right to government

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

They're un-paving roads for the little guys.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

''Abracadabra : You’re a Part-Timer'', by Barbara Garson :

''How Corporate America Used the Great Recession to Turn Good Jobs Into Bad Ones.''

There is much in Graeber's words and your link but DG should be very wary of being ''recuperated into the spectacle'' (Guy Debord).

verb. sat. sap. ...

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

He was talking about a 15hr work week at 40hrs pay.

Any chance of such high production, was squandered by a "service economy".

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

''Occupy Wall Street Rediscovers The Radical Imagination'', by David Graeber :

''The form of resistance that has emerged - looks remarkably similar to the old global justice movement, too: we see the rejection of old-fashioned party politics, the same embrace of radical diversity, the same emphasis on inventing new forms of democracy from below. What's different is largely the target: where in 2000, it was directed at the power of unprecedented new planetary bureaucracies (ie. the WTO, IMF, World Bank, Nafta), institutions with no democratic accountability, which existed only to serve the venal interests of transnational capital; now, it is at the entire political classes of countries like Greece, Spain and, now, the US – for exactly the same reason. This is why protesters are often hesitant even to issue formal demands, since that might imply recognising the legitimacy of the politicians against whom they are ranged.''

With S17 & the 2nd Anniversary imminent, time to renew, refresh & re-fire the imagination for The 99% !!

respice, adspice, prospice ...

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Here in the US, the lack of demands is hurting the movement.

It's nice to see them getting involved more here though.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

Ellen Brown on Eliot Spitzer and an unlikely OWS / 99% ally ? Please consider the following closely :

Amorphous and nebulous can have purpose ; what 'the establishment' can't pin down, they can't co-opt.

Revolutions take time and we've barely got going ; seeds are being sought & we're still in 'the sowing' :-)

per aspera ad astra ...

[-] 3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

"Amorphous and nebulous", drove away a lot early and future supporters.

Especially, because the list of demands and a promise to eventually field candidates was very much a part of what drew them to the movement in the first place.

To them, a promise was broken.

[-] -1 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

What ''promise was broken'' ? Made by whom ?!! What is your evidence for that assertion ?!!

Instant gratification culture demands instant results BUT 'revolutions of behaviour' take time !!!

per aspera ad astra ...

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

"Especially, because the list of demands and a promise to eventually field candidates was very much a part of what drew them to the movement in the first place."

It was all there at the beginning.

That's the promises broken to those early supporters.

Now it's gone.

Instant gratification had nothing to do with it.

[-] -1 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 1 year ago

You are so full of it its coming out your ears!!!

No demands. Fuck politics. Two of the main things that caused frustration yes, but they were never there.

To insinuate they were, and "a promise was broken" is a straight up lie.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

They were here.

All of that was here.

You just never read them.

I did.

You miss a lot in your mad rush to insult people.

You miss a lot stuff, in general, don't you?

Did you follow the money in N. Carolina yet?

Nope. You didn't.

How many more times will you insult me?

[-] -1 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 1 year ago

Here? As in some person posted it on the site?

Someone posted a list of formal occupy demands, and promised you they would field candidates? And you though that was real?

Dude, really? I mean you say I insult you too much and then post that? Come on man.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

I feel sorry that you never explored this site in it's entirety.

It doesn't surprise me though.

You miss a lot of stuff.

And then you insult people.

I mean WTF. You can't follow the money in N. Carolina.

How can you effectively follow anything else?

[-] -2 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 1 year ago

I'm sorry you just make shit up.

I'd love to see the GA minutes on that.

I suppose you could just make some up!!

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Still going for the insult??

It figures.

It wasn't in the GA minutes, now that I think about it, it was in the working group section.

It was very much there, and the list was growing. It disappeared a while ago.

As far as you insinuating that I'm a liar??

One more insult?

Must you?

Let's establish credibility.

How many times have you been banned, under how many usernames?

Have you ever posted links to the John Birch Society web site?

Have you ever considered, that when you call the 99% asses as though from a superior viewpoint, you imply yourself as a 1%er?

No.

I know what I saw, and all of that and more were at`one point working documents.

Documents, in process that I very much enjoyed watching grow.

So no.

You will not convince me that I did not see and read, what I saw and read.

Here. On this web site.

And I don't ever want to hear you bitch about anyone else's "insults".

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22351) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

@ [-] -1 points by Viking2001 (-19) 4 minutes ago

"Let's establish credibility"

Good idea

http://occupywallst.org/forum/burned-for-obama/

↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

" Good idea "

Not 4 U - U have none.

BTW - 4 U =

Additional Information

If you want to question a ban, also email abuse, we're open to discussion and at least one ban did get reverted; what you don't do is make a slew of sockpuppets. That's the best way for future bans to be immediate and without second thoughts. This passage is from: Read the Rules Before Posting - ummmm U ever do that?

[Removed]

[-] -1 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 1 year ago

I'm still not sure where this "Bircher" obsession came from either.

[-] -1 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 1 year ago

So now it was only a working group? A working group is a bit different than stating:

"Especially, because the list of demands and a promise to eventually field candidates was very much a part of what drew them to the movement in the first place."

Honestly, whatever. If people stumbled across that working group-out of the dozens and dozens of others- and thought that I guess it wasnt clear enough.

Did you really think we were going to run candidates?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOHyRxj4N5M

reform vs rebuild...something that still is a problem as evidenced by my and your inability to see on the same level.

[-] -2 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

How was anyone in any position to make any promises to anyone ?!!! Again the 'from and to' quandary remains !! Also how was it ''broken'' and how has it ''gone'' ?! 'Movements' aren't born fully formed dude ;-)

ad iudicium ...

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

The list of demands, along with the promise to field candidates is gone.

It used to be in the GA portion of this site.

I used to check on it regularly, when the trolls would get me down.

One day they vanished without explanation.

I cannot pretend they weren't there.

Removing them guaranteed the movement would mature and affect change at a much slower rate.

I was sad the day they disappeared.

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

It would be interesting if you or anyone saved a copy on a hard drive so we could all be reminded of that again. Also, that which was ... can be again, we have ONLY been at this for two years and rest assured politics (in the widest sense of that word) will never be the same again in USUK or elsewhere. There can be no going back now & the rate at which we, The 99% move forward will vary but never lose heart dude.

nil desperandum et respice, adspice, prospice ...

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Thanks shadz.

That's the attitude that will bring more people back to the movement.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

For deeper insights into The 99% struggle, worldwide and pointers towards solutions, see :

''Working class struggles from below range from workplace strikes over wages and social benefits, to general strikes to secure social legislation (or to defend past gains) or to prevent assaults on living standards. In critical moments, struggles from below lead to social upheavals in the face of systemic breakdowns, destructive wars and autocratic rule. The methods, participants and results of class struggle from below vary greatly, depending on the socio-economic and political context in which class conflict ensues. What is striking in the contemporary period is the uneven development of the class struggle between countries and regions, between workers in the imperial creditor countries and those in debtor neo-colonial countries.''

e tenebris, lux ...

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (22351) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (13692) 1 minute ago

''Giant bank holding companies now own airports, toll roads and ports ; control power plants and store and hoard vast quantities of commodities of all sorts. They are systematically buying up or gaining control of the essential lifelines of the economy. How have they pulled this off, and where have they gotten the money ?'' from :

THANX for your funny script, an Occupy Group should produce that for #S17 & solidarity :-)

pax ...

↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

You Know? That article placed in your comment? ( thanks btw ) That article could so easily be included straight into that short story -

  • as we follow the spread of the toxic contagion and it's carriers - this internet streaming reporter................

Anyway feel free to forward that thought = " an Occupy Group should produce that for #S17 " as That sounds like it would not only be fun for participants that know what is going on - but also for people walking by to get a story that they can then relate to what is going on. I hate to be self promoting or be seen as such - so if you could just forward the story (itself) along with your suggested use - that would be gr8.

BTW - I actually already forwarded the story link to jart - thought she might get a chuckle.

[-] 0 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 1 year ago

I would absolutely love to see the GA minutes where demands and running candidates were accepted as a good idea in this bullshit system.

[-] -1 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

Electoral moves are possible but would really have to start locally. Could OWS 'co-opt' or enlist the likes of Dennis Kucinich, Cynthia McKinney or Bernie Sanders ? Or is OWS better off trying to take it to the streets but regularly ? Can workers and students be mobilised on a 'We Oppose Debt Slavery' basis ?

dum spiro, spero ...

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22351) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Electoral moves are possible

Gonna take a shit load ( pardon ) of Ex-Lax to break loose that constipated ( constipational ? ) process.

[-] -2 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

Yet ''constipated'' or not, that process Must Be Broken !!! Here is some insights as to how :

Consider ''The future lies in building bridges within and between the millions of exploited, excluded and dispossessed who have lost everything and have finally recognized that only via the class struggle can they recover their humanity and a dignified standard of living.''

multum in parvo ...

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (22351) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

"The Meaning of Altruism", by Paul Balles : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article32539.htm &

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/video/2012/aug/23/after-capitalism-george-monbiot-advanced-social-democracy-video .

In return for your contribution - need a little (very little) comic relief?

http://occupywallst.org/forum/soon-to-be-a-major-motion-picture-nightmare-from-w/

BTW Nice opening for http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article32539.htm

"Every man must decide whether he will walk in the light of creative altruism or in the darkness of destructive selfishness." --Martin Luther King

Also: nice personal story of a journey from darkness back into the light.

The follow-up video - while being very short - was also very good.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/video/2012/aug/23/after-capitalism-george-monbiot-advanced-social-democracy-video

THANKS

[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

''Giant bank holding companies now own airports, toll roads and ports ; control power plants and store and hoard vast quantities of commodities of all sorts. They are systematically buying up or gaining control of the essential lifelines of the economy. How have they pulled this off, and where have they gotten the money ?'' from :

THANX for your funny script, an Occupy Group should produce that for #S17 & solidarity :-)

pax ...

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

interest on my student loan of $35 k will be 7 k by next year. that's 20% AccountNumber 804102982 that can't be right.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (22351) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (13661) 5 minutes ago

Yet ''constipated'' or not, that process Must Be Broken !!! Here is some insights as to how :

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article34577.htm .

Consider ''The future lies in building bridges within and between the millions of exploited, excluded and dispossessed who have lost everything and have finally recognized that only via the class struggle can they recover their humanity and a dignified standard of living.''

multum in parvo ...

↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

Well it is very obvious that those in power have fallen again into the mantra that the all mighty dollar is the be all end all ( at this point in time it could very well BE the end all ) - that just having massive amounts of money is the goal - and they just can not understand why - with all of the major money being made on wallstreet record profits sky high bonuses etc - why is the overall economy failing - they are apparently at a loss - we need to throw more money into the wall and see more bigger better huger gains in the market - FUCK - why ain't it working? - I mean look at all of these fat cats with major take home living in luxury why there are hundreds of em . . . well a couple dozen at least why hasn't the economy soared along with these dozens of individuals - aren't we throwing enough money into the market? what the fuck is wrong with you ECONOMY? You're getting fed ( FED ) right?

Stuck on stupid blinded by money.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

''Stuck on stupid blinded by money.'', sssiiigh - so true it hurts. Very nice comment but don't despair :

consilio et animis ...

[-] -3 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 1 year ago

I'd love to see a list of demands and the "promise to field candidates".

You're missing the main thing in terms of "hurting us"....

The politicians shut us down.

Thats kiiiiiiind of a major thing :) Pretty hard to get organized when the cops wont stop harassing you.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Libe(R)tarians.

By any other name, still libe(R)tarians.

[-] 2 points by JPB950 (2254) 1 year ago

Spitzer may be useful even if his goal is simply to rebuild his public image. He did make his career through cases that made him look to be the champion of the common person. I do believe however that Eliot Spitzer's main concern has always been Eliot Spitzer.

His pursuit of organized crime and later crusades against white collar criminals were, in my opinion, all geared toward getting him the recognition and popular support needed to make his eventual run for governor. It's possible someone with an agenda may have exposed Spitzer's indiscretion with the call girl. It needs to be remembered however that he wasn't framed or set up.

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[-] 1 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 1 year ago

Coke and strippers too. It's a tax write off- entertainment expenses.

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[-] 1 points by FEARLESS (-72) 1 year ago

We need a "rejection of old-fashioned party politics..."

I agree entirely with that, and your statement, it's "time to renew, refresh & refire the imagination for the 99%!!"

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

''We need a "rejection of old-fashioned party politics..." - dittoing your ditto so to speak & solidarity @ you as I believe that you were possibly in attendance at the 50th anniversary gathering of MLK's famous speech in DC today.

I append and recommend the following arguably as relevant speech which went to the heart of The US Military-Industrial-War-Machine and its modus operandi & which still resonates loudly in these days of perpetual ''war against terror''/drugs/privacy/liberty et al :

fiat lux, fiat justitia ; fiat pax ...

[-] 1 points by FEARLESS (-72) 1 year ago

Yes, I did make it to Washington despite not having a reserved seat

After having had four great days up north visiting 2 of my dynamic kiddies where we had two blue moons....outdoor fires....an unbelievable party consisting of friends...kids that I have know since they were l'il tikes,30 plus years ago, and then the food... halibut (caught by one of my kids)...salmon (caught by a friend of her's)....Jersey tomatoes....fresh veges out of the garden...tons of desserts brownies (unspiked ;-(.....pies, and a dessert made by a French chef at a local restaurant who is a long-time friend of one of my kids

Anyway after that wonderful visit, I was home about 22 hours before leaving for NYC in the hope of being able to take a United Auto Worker's (UAW) bus to Washington

There was not one, but there were 8 UAW buses (!!!) that left their head-quarters on West 38th St in NY at about 0120 in the morning, and I was on one of them....yoo-hoo

Before leaving upon sign-up we were given maps, itineraries & Metro Washington subway cards, and if that weren't enough, we also got to take an apple, an orange and a bottle of water. Oh yeah...the cost for the bus trip and all? $ 0!

I can't thank all the people in the UAW, and The National Writers Union who are in their Union, enough for their kindness and generosity in letting me go with them and for doing such a great job too

Anyway on our way to DC we stopped at a rest area in Delaware for 45 mins and arrived in DC just after 0600, before the subways started to run at 0700

Due to our early arrival (0800) we had a prime spot near the Lincoln Memorial, where other UAW members from around the country joined us, and there were tons of 'em

By around 1030 hrs, I needed to do some wandering and I just wanted to drink the whole thing in, so I moseyed to the other side of the Reflecting Pool via the beautiful WWII Memorial, and then back again which was not easy to do since the crowd had really swelled by then

The UAW has a great program called gimmeFIVEuaw.org where they promote activism

The five tenets to this program are; MOBILIZE - ORGANIZE - JUSTICE - POWER - & COMMUNITY

And they have formed a strong alliance with Occupy Wall Street, so now it's like we're both on steroids...lol

http://www.uaw.org/page/uaw-endorses-occupy-wall-street

To cap off what was a beautiful day, I read your link on my way home, MLK's Beyond Vietnam speech which was given at Riverside Church. I will always remember celebrating MLK day 2012 there. What a memorable night that was, and what a day today was...errr yesterday!

There's a lot more I could share, that should hearten us all, but for now, 3 hours past the 26 hours since I left home, that will have to do.... as

I hear my bed calling me

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

''The anti-worker, anti-middle class corporate GOP-agenda puts public education, public service and infrastructure investment at risk. Without strong education at the K-12 and university level, we will not produce an educated and skilled labor force to compete in the global economy of today. Without infrastructure investment and good public services, our communities miss out on opportunities to attract businesses to our regions.

''As corporations and the finance industry grew, so did the disparity in wealth and income for the 99 percent in the rest of America. As Wall Street’s pay rebounds, Main Street’s pay is continuously under attack. America is a country where dreams are made and realized. Labor, legislature and corporations can work together to build a strong middle class, create good jobs, rebuild our manufacturing sector, and increase investments in research and development.

''Together, we can provide dignity and security to the middle class. “America is not broke,” said UAW President Bob King. “We have the resources to turn our economy around. The courage and determination of the Occupy Wall Street movement has galvanized generations of Americans fed up with corporate greed and feeling powerless. They have a vision toward a more just, equal and fair society – demanding real democracy.”

Taken from your excellent link and many thanx for your very nice report back. Hope your much earned sleep, was long, deep and recuperative. Here's hoping that unions wake up to 'kissy sell out' Corporate Controlled Democraps too. Solidarity @ u, yours and OTS.

pax ...

[-] 0 points by FEARLESS (-72) 1 year ago

Yes, my "sleep was long, deep and recuperative." Still though I have a lot to reflect on

Admittedly I did prod one of the young UAW organizers in NY before leaving when I said, 'I don't notice anyone carrying Obama signs here.'

She smiled at me, and then used a nautical metaphor, and said, "I think that ship has already sailed."

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

Time for an Independent Labor Based Party of The 99% & True 99% Independents to begin to start to educate, agitate, organise and assert themselves because Hitlary Clinton surely won't do anything but pay lip service to the 99% in 2016. Sooner or later the ship of duopoly is going down ... so better start preping the life boats now. Also fyi : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article34577.htm .

fiat lux ...

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[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

Very nice comment, in compliment of which, I append :

Solidarity @ you, yours, OTS and all your doings for The 99%. Viva Los Indignados ~*~

pax et lux ; nunc et semper ...

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

how about a property based party ?

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[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Libe(R)topia.

Have to keep them busy enough and desperate enough, that they don't have time to actually think about such things.

That would result in actual competition, and that's the last thing they want......

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[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

MTF

Mean

Time

to

Failure

WallStreet demands it.

and so it is.

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[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (22351) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Quality - not - Quantity

TRUE

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[-] 0 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 1 year ago

Very true.

[-] -1 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 1 year ago

I blame this guy;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore's_law

On top of that everythings made to be broken

[-] -2 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 1 year ago

Digital downfall.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

How insightful.

You should run with it.

I don't now where.

But you should hurry on.

[-] -2 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 1 year ago

I should say something profound about America's obsession with technology? I'll see what I can do.

[-] -3 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 1 year ago

Let's not.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

No "us" involved.

You should hurry on with your insight.

PS the world has alway been enthralled with technology it's not exclusive.

Don't expect that to change....ever..

[-] -1 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 1 year ago

That wasn't very nice.

[-] 3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Sarcasm is like that.

I was responding in kind.

On the other hand I was being insightful in my comment on technology.

Man has always been enthralled with it.

[-] -3 points by Solzzzz (-9) 1 year ago

Technology has made life ridiculously easy. Problem is that people are being replaced by machines that are more effective than humans. Evolve, get educated or suffer.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Easy???

Have you ever seen a 14yr old girl who's misplaced her cellphone?

Addictive maybe, but not necessarily easier. Just different.

[-] -3 points by Stormcrow1 (-25) 1 year ago

If a person has to work at a "bullshit job" because they don't want to take the initiative to improve their job skills to get a better job then they deserve the "bullshit job".

Todays society is so dumbed down that they don't even know how to figure out how to improve their job skills to improve their income.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

The guys a corporate lawyer.

Sorry, your bullshit paradigm doesn't apply here, as if it really applied anywhere else.

So it looks like you're the one who's "dumbed down"..