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For the benefit of the ignoramuses at the DNC:

Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin and George Washington were "deists", i.e. they believed in a Supreme Being but NOT in Christianity.

James Madison's beliefs are not absolutely clear: deist or Episcopalian. John Adams was a Unitarian. As for Thomas Paine, he was most definitely an ATHEIST.

So don't believe the right-wing propaganda about all of the Founding Fathers being "good Christians". It just ain't so.

For details, check out the second answer on this link: https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110403124716AAqVAPz

V E R Y wise words.

You're right that we should not "follow the piper into the river," It's time that we move "onto something else," lesson learned for many of us, including me.

And my apologies for insinuating that you never did anything to progress our struggle. Very few of us have done this before, and the important thing is that we do not get mired down into a futile situation, namely the "..Hillary train." The current and past history of the Democratic Party's sheep dogging is proof of that

I totally understand your disappointment and frustration with Bernie and agree with your assessment of the DNC's dirty, low-down tactics. I'm so glad wikileaks exposed them.

That being said, are you sure that you are fully taking into account the danger - to the U.S. and to the world - of a Trump presidency? Do you really want to give this man the power to press the red button?

I think there may be an important lesson to be learned from the recent federal election in Canada:


"DNC treatment of Sanders at issue in emails leaked to Wikileaks"


Thread: Bernie, We Need You. The Time For A Third Party Is Now!
[-] 2 points by grapes (4463) 5 hours ago

Jill Stein or Bust!

I used to like Mx. Cheese's experience in the handling of international diplomacy, cobbling together various sanctions by disparate countries to rein in rogue countries.

However, if that activity had been tainted by shadowy foundational donations, it would be a deal breaker for me. Her deliberately having private servers set up seems rather suspicious. Her cavalier attitude in handling various classified information disqualifies her being Commander-In-Chief. I can imagine that an intelligence agent harmed by leaked classified information may decide to take revenge and assassinate her. It's just too much for me to take should any of these be true.

More wikileaks evidence! What now?

P.S. I just checked the new wikileaks revelations. It really makes you want to throw up!

Attacking Bernie's religious beliefs - or unbeliefs - is as low as you can get. And as ignorant, if I may add. The Founding Fathers were NOT all Christians, far from it: in fact, many of them were openly critical of Christianity, which they considered a BETRAYAL of the true teachings of Jesus.

During his years in the White House, Thomas Jefferson went so far as to REWRITE the Bible so as to expurgate it from the many layers of nonsense, mistranslations, etc. that had accumulated over the years. The new version remains a best-seller to this day, under the title "The Jefferson Bible".

Is Bernie Sanders an atheist? Frankly, I don't give a s___t! His VALUES, especially on social justice issues, are far closer to those of Jesus than the values of those religious hypocrites associated with the Christian Right. And by the way, a great many atheists express deep admiration for Jesus - the REAL Jesus, not the caricature that the Church tried to ram down our throats. Nobel-prize winner Albert Camus, for instance, called Jesus "le meilleur d'entre nous", the best among us.

Thread: they are listening to us - from paul street
[-] 2 points by grapes (4463) 6 hours ago

Drumpf is a businessman locally grown in New York. Business is all about having a good grasp of the cost/benefit ratio of various choices, very materialistic, but probably far more rational than one wedded to an ideology, especially an obsolete and outdated one, such as the unipolar idea of a global American Empire.

I have no doubt that the U.S. is dominant in many areas and should provide leadership when asked but the idea that we can dictate to the rest of the world is just plain nuts. The U.S. has grown quite capable newer allies such as Japan and Germany and kept some rather old and reliable allies (including former enemies). I think many of them jointly can handle at least regional leadership or policing by now. It's a bit like letting the now grown-up youngsters "mow the lawn."

Libertarians are all about me, me, me. Socialists are all about society, all of us working together and sharing. It's a huge difference especially in terms of economics and I urge anyone thinking of voting for Gary Johnson to really explore the definitions of "Libertarianism" vs. "Libertarian Socialism." Both look to cure the same problems but do so in very opposing ways.

Glad you are well. It's Jill for me unless Bernie wakes up from his slumber. Not sure what is going on with him. With the wikileaks evidence out, he's ridiculous if he continues to endorse Clinton. Jill Stein or Bust!

Jill Stein has managed to get herself on the ballot in November and she has managed to hold on to a platform that Occupy can easily stand with, so I'm with Jill Stein, all the way.

Bernie Sanders still has his chance to join up with her. She offered. He ignored her. I'm not impressed. I'll be even less impressed if he continues to endorse Hillary Clinton in light of the wikileaks evidence that shows how the DNC was trying to take him down. Undemocratic, unjust, tyranny. If he stands with her. He stands with all of that. I don't see how he can.

Bernie deserves the harsh words, sorry to say. In fact, he owes it to the people who donated more money than they could afford, and who went out and campaigned for him, to take back his endorsement of Hillary Clinton when he speaks at the convention, especially in light of the recent wikileaks evidence.

Thread: they are listening to us - from paul street
[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22537) 7 hours ago

Donald Trump calling for an end to the U.S. bringing regime change around the world really struck a note with me the other night. If that nutter can even see the harm we've done, how much of a nutter is Clinton? How much of a nutter is Obama? Perhaps they are worse than folks like Trump.

I know we are supposed to think the opposite is true and that Clinton is the lesser of two evils, but I'm just not buying it. I am quite certain you'll never hear her say she's for an end of the U.S. bringing regime change around the world.

Funny isn't it that the DNC was trying to use Bernie Sanders' possible atheism against him as shown in the wikileaks emails? As if his followers would have cared!

Maybe we need a little less religion and only more of it if they will bother to follow the teachings properly.

Tufts University (which seems to have a very strong school of international relations) has a great cultural map identifying the 11 nations of North America here: http://emerald.tufts.edu/alumni/magazine/fall2013/features/up-in-arms.html

Bernie (representing Vermont in Yankeedom nation) and the blacks belong to different nations but Mx. Cheese and the blacks have a carpetbagger's affiliation when she was in Arkansas in Deep South nation.

Thread: Bernie, We Need You. The Time For A Third Party Is Now!
[-] 1 points by grapes (4463) 9 hours ago

The old saying is correct because there is usually static friction or hysteresis to be overcome. Big pain gets attention and perhaps a real fix. Sometimes a "fool" is exactly what one needs for a grand champion because "fools" have turned out to be extremely creative sometimes. Yes, only a "fool" would do "that" so the wiser ones never tried and that was exactly why they had never succeeded. One prominent example was the blue LED breakthrough.

Thread: Bernie, We Need You. The Time For A Third Party Is Now!
[-] 1 points by grapes (4463) 9 hours ago

You sound like a politically burnt-out millennial (which you are not one but you are an older New Yorker; yeah, New York is somewhat hard to understand by folks elsewhere due to its apparent contradictions that are not real and yet all too real; "3" on the globalized helpline has been pressed and Tera eRex is out of Jurassic Park; has anyone seen the cowpie in the sky for all yet?) with your emphasis on change outside the political arena. You may well be correct that there is no real option for us little folk but you do know that even little monkeys can throw a wrench at the timing belt of our royal carnival clown car, no?

All systems have critical points. The art of steering is to discover, understand, and use them well. Greatest inventions all have this quality of using very little to control a lot.

Thread: Bernie, We Need You. The Time For A Third Party Is Now!
[-] 1 points by Shule (2542) 12 hours ago

Ok, so some folks rode a bow wave. I'll buy that. But let us all be smart enough to not follow the piper into the river.
Time to get off the Bernie-now Hillary train, and onto something else.

BTW; who said I never did anything? You don't know who I am, and what I do.

Thread: Bernie, We Need You. The Time For A Third Party Is Now!
[-] 1 points by Shule (2542) 12 hours ago

The old saying goes, if you cant change a screwed up system, then really screw it up. At least I don't see Trump out starting WWIII. Now if the Hag gets in, that lizard is going to press the red button sending missiles everywhere faster than it can hide its tail back under that skirt.

Thread: Bernie, We Need You. The Time For A Third Party Is Now!
[-] 1 points by Shule (2542) 12 hours ago

Well, I must admit; actually there is no game in town for us little folk. Trump in all likelihood will screw us too. Dr. Stein would be nice to vote for if all one wants to do is send a message; and that is all we can possibly do. Reality is She won't get in. The appeal with Trump is if he gets in that will be some egg-in-the-face for some Wall Street oligarchs who will be pissed not seeing their darling Hag get in. That would be a message too. Err, so whatever mesage one wants to send. Probably our best bet, is to take the political options for what they are, not worry about it too much, and focus our efforts in establishing change outside the political arena.

Great question! But it still doesn't answer mine: why, oh why did Blacks not massively support Bernie? Apparently it would have made a huge difference in a great many states… perhaps enough to secure the party nomination.

I'm so glad to hear that the U.S. government is so well prepared. We'll need it when the Big One hits Los Angeles. Gaia has cursed Alhambra and San Bernardino. No matter which one, Law and Order will be imposed better than when Katrina came, I hope.

Armed rebellion is futile but unarmed resistance is not. A little bit here and a little bit there at strategic trigger points will unnerve the eelites enough to start necessary reforms. It's a bit like bending a huge log - a little bit at a time with persistent pressure and steam.

Intergenerational amnesia. Not strictly a black phenomenon. The Great Depression and the Great Recession showed why history rhymes.

Excessive speculation due to high leverage is evil, regardless of what instruments being involved, be they stocks, bonds, margin loans, credit default swaps, mortgage-backed securities, houses, condominiums, etc.

The Republicans freed the black slaves so it was not always the oppressive party that it had become.

With the breadwinners in jail, the families become even more dependent on social benefits by voting for the demonkrapts who pay labia service to preserve the status quo.

Even after their once breadwinners had been released from jail, many families were still haunted by persistent unemployment because employers would not hire ex-convicts.

New York City's successful transition from high-crime to low-crime offers guidance. There need to be restorative and preventive programs put into place first before the police's striking fears into the hearts of would-be criminals. There were both love and fear from the crime-ridden neighborhoods but the net effect was crime rates going down.

By and large, the police living up to its 'to serve and to protect' motto is respected although some errors result in innocents' being injured or killed.

Blacks do not have much intergenerational passdown of historical knowledge. Massive incaceration of blacks due to the war on crimes and toughened sentencing from Clinton-year laws disrupted black families.