Forum Post: Chalk Crimes
Posted 10 years ago on June 28, 2013, 11:28 p.m. EST by Toynbee
(656)
from Savannah, GA
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
So Banks Go Free.
But Chalk Writing Protestors who are trying to exercise their First Amendment Right to Free Speech face up to 12 years in jail for sidewalk chalk complaints.
We are becoming our own worst enemy:
*
-What happened to our Constitutional right to petition the government for redress of our grievances?
-What? No chalk writing protests?
-Even when the chalk is water soluble?
-What are we to do? Send them an email that they can ignore?
-Meanwhile, the multi-billion dollar corporate lobbying effort gets instant access to our legislatures.
-And then there is ALEC, that not only has access to legislatures,
-But ALEC even drafts the bills that OUR elected representatives introduce
-Meanwhile, politely ignoring the complaints and grievances of the common citizen.
Of course you are right. The problem is it's illegal to deface private property; and you will most likely have to deal with the cops in one way or another if you deface. The cops aren't interested in your lofty reasons, they're just enforcing the law.
You didn't really think the bank or the cops would let this slide because you were doing the moral thing did you?
Something is "illegal" when our legislature enacts a law that say its "illegal"
If they adopted a law that said it is OK to con citizens out of their worldly possessions, then it would be legal.
Right now it is illegal to scribble protests on a sidewalk, but it is legal to charge exorbitant interest rates on student loans, OK to charge usurious interest rates on payday loans to people who are working two minimum wage jobs and living paycheck to paycheck.
Only because ows talks about problems instead of solutions.
To develop solutions, you must first identify problems.
I agree, however, that OWS is short on action and solutions.
Given that the Supreme Court has gutted the Voting Rights Act, and the Republicans are busy rigging the voting game in their favor, it is time for action. Action. Action.
We need a groundswell movement that makes the Million Man March look like a small town PTA meeting.
Yep, but perpetual sensation of problems is trampling solution. For every 100 posts on some issue, there is one about viable solution.
The 1% love that. There is also a cluster of idiots that bash viable solution and are unaccountable to showing any of their own. Some it appear are mods.
What's a "mod"?
A moderator can censor, delete and effectively ban members. It appears misinformation and misleading got the best of the "revolutionaries".
make killing illegal for anyone
stop dropping bombs
Use a chalk, go to jail.
no one is happy the banks
and this incident only reinforces the peoples perception on them
I agree with you in principal. But the truth is defacing private property is beyond your first amendment rights and should be a crime. For example, I wouldn't want someone to draw a swastika on my garage door and get away with it by pleading free speech.
That would be "public property".
I would never want anyone to deface your garage door but the sidewalk in front of it belongs to" the people". Maybe a call to your local "planning and development" office may help you understand the difference.
I agree, but as I understand it he was writing on a building (private property). That;s why he was arrested.
No, bullshit. It says right in the article writing on the sidewalk.
A public space - the assholes.
Yeah, that's why it all sounds like bullshit. Hell, for we all know, the whole story's been fabricated, considering the antics of MSM.
If it went to court - assuming the judge was impartial - the judge might very well fine those bringing the silly charges - if only for wasting the court's time.
That would be great, wouldn't it? There have been judges that have done that sort of thing before.
Yep - absolutely GR8 when it happens.
My apology, I thought it said he wrote on the bank building. Still, the cops are obligated to do something, even on a street. It should have been a warning or a ticket, but not arrested. The punishment doesn't fit the crime.
Completely agree with you there. In the saner world of a couple decades ago, that's what it would be. A ticket or two.
Free speech abridged caused the move from public to private. It was constitutional to escalate in defense if rights when accurate expression was ignored.
He was arrested because a bank employee persisted in complaining. Banks are too accustomed to controlling the justice system.
I still would not want anyone defacing your private property.
But even so, the fundamental point deals with justice:
The rich get one kind of justice.
Justice for the rest of us is much much more severe.
Sure didn't sound like they were scrawling anything like a swastika.
Doesn't matter. It could have been a happy face and still been illegal. No one should have the right to damage or deface someone else s property.
Still, the punishment doesn't fit the crime. Twelve years! Give me a break.
You are gonna compare that to chalk messages of protest? Really? Anyone got a bucket of water and a scrub brush? Sheesh.
Agree. Bank, Big Cry Baby.
Mornin Nevada1 - have you seen the top of the page?
Good Morning DKA. Yes, Beautiful.
Think maybe we should ask for flowery ivy borders to complement? It really looks good as it is though.
Do you really think it's OK to deface other peoples property? You can't be serious. Whether it's a swastika or a happy face doesn't matter. Seems arrogant to think you have some kind of moral right to deface something that doesn't belong to you.
Yeah? Chalk on a sidewalk protesting criminal actions of Banks is a bad thing? Sidewalks are public property. Don't like the message? Don't look at it and wait for it to rain or wash it off yourself.
The guy wrote on a building. (private property). Maybe a sidewalk also, I don't know. What he did was illegal. However, the sentence mentioned, 12 years, is outrageous. A small fine would have been sufficient.
-12 years for nonpermanent graffiti that articulates citizen grievances.
-Meanwhile, corporations are caught red-handed defrauding citizens and they get a hand-slap. They don't admit wrongdoing in the settlement. They write off any fines as a cost of business, and simply pass on the costs to the consumers.
-Where's the justice?
They didn't get a hand slap - they got rewarded. Any wonder why there is a vibrant white collar crime sector?
-I say:
-"If Corporations are "People" then chalk is "Speech"
Corporations aren't people. At least not to the person on the street. That has to be one of the more stupid blunders the SCOTUS ever made. I believe it will be overturned, in time.
Even a small fine would have been wrong/silly/stupid/insult - chalk - the right to protest - the right of free speech.
I'm confounded that you think someone's right to protest outweighs another person's right to not have their property damaged. What an incredible sense of entitlement to think you rights outweigh another person.
What damage was done?
What difference does it make? Call it defacing if it makes you feel better. The point is no one should have the right to "deface" another person's property. How would like it if I spray painted you car?
You can paint it red, but an orange still isn't an apple.
I ask again.
What damage was done?
spray paint is not chalk. Stupid comparison. Unless of course the paint was water soluble even if it had time to set. Then it would be no big deal.
This isn't a big deal. The only thing that makes it noteworthy is the possible 12 year prison sentence. Which would a miscarriage of justice.
But that doesn't address your feeling you can chalk up "like that better?) private property and think it should be protected as free speech. Defacing private isn't/shouldn't be covered under the first amendment.
What damage? That is a silly thing to say about chalk markings - wash away with water - so - what damage? Yes free speech and the right to protest I place above an individual who does not like a chalked message - hell they can chalk their own message or exercise their right to free speech by removing the chalked message.
See my response to Shooz above.
Sorry, your rights aren't more important than another person. You can't do whatever you want and use free speech as a defense.
Again your response was stupid - WHAT DAMAGE???
Defacing private property is illegal; ans should be so. Why is that so hard for you to grasp?
Chalk? Sorry but you are stuck on stupid.
"the sidewalk is public property - don't matter if it is in front of Ur house ]
Not to U gnm"
Yeah, I knew that wasn't directed at me. I'm thinking you mean Narley. I'm picturing grandpa Simpson, heheh.
Hey, if it was a public sidewalk, then BofA doesn't even have a case, I would think. Wouldn't it be the city that should decide to charge the guy?
If they are attempting to scare or intimidate - I think then - that they miscalculated ( horribly ) again - this kinda crap tends to earn derision instead.
Yeah, I think even a casual reader would see it as some pretty intense bullying, at the very least.
I would think so - but still - for chalk??? That is just to lame to even contemplate.
Narley seems rather conservative but refers to himself as a liberal - well perhaps he lives in a severely conservative area.
I'm thinking, like I said to him, it's more MSM propaganda to scare the masses, know what I mean? Keep us in line, make us think twice before we contemplate doing something similar.
In my opinion, it just makes the banks look more like arrogant fools. It would've been smarter just to laugh it off, act like it's not important enough to bother with. You know, kind of like their customers.
Use a chalk -- go to jail.
If you chalk up someone's house do you think they are justified in calling the cops? Are the cops justified in giving you a ticket for it?
You seem not to care much about other peoples rights.
"If it were true hate speech and I expected an adult did it then I would call the police."
I'd have to apply the same thinking to the guy and the banks, too. If he was writing "Kill the CEOs" then, yeah, you'd have to call the police cause the guy might actually be dangerous. But he was writing "stop big banks” and “stop foreclosure fraud." That's in no way a threat.
And that 13 years is just a PR scare tactic designed to make other people think twice about it. Since it's thirteen counts, that's a possible year sentence on each count. There will probably be a plea bargain, etc. No way I see him getting thirteen years. Community service and time served.
And that supposed $1000 per count it cost them to clean it up? Fuck them, let them eat it. The only reason it supposedly cost them that much is because they probably called a cleaning company to come out and clean it right away. All the arrogant bastards would have had to do is call the cleaning company the ALREADY cleans their building and have them do it that night and it wouldn't have cost them shit. And if it was and it costs a thousand dollars to have a guy come by and hose off water-soluble chalk, somebody's getting fucked.
"When the start wringing hateful things on my house I will call the cops? Wouldn't you?"
If they wrote it with water soluble chalk on the sidewalk, nope. But if they spray-painted it on my house, definitely.
Ok, It depends on what gets written on my house and who does it. Kids just doing something dumb would result in a call to the parents. If it were true hate speech and I expected an adult did it then I would call the police.
Are you telling us that in all your years you've never had neighborhood kids chalk up the sidewalk in front of your house? And if it's never happened, are you saying you'd call the cops on them if they did?
@ Old guy perpetually shaking fist at sky and yelling you damn kids get out of my yard. [ @ crotchety old geezer - the sidewalk is public property - don't matter if it is in front of Ur house ]
Not to U gnm
Actually kids in my neighborhood chalk the sidewalk all the time. I even allow them to chalk my driveway, and I keep a box of non-toxic sidewalk chalk just for them. I like the kids in my neighborhood.
However, there a difference between chalking a sidewalk to play hop scotch and someone writing inflammatory statements on my house. When the start wringing hateful things on my house I will call the cops? Wouldn't you?
Tell that to the Banks.
Or is it that you feel it is wrong to rebuke them for their crimes?
Just exactly where is your outrage at the wrongs committed on millions and millions of people - real - living - breathing - people?
Do you feel it is their place to abuse us lesser beings? ( corp(SE)oRATions R not NOT people - try to remember that )
Do you feel we are wrong to cry out against injustice?
Sorry but you are stuck on stupid.
Maybe so, but I learned in kindergarten not to mess up other peoples stuff. Apparently a lesson you've not yet learned.