Forum Post: You guys should have some concrete demands. HERE IS 4 SIMPLE GOAL suggestions for OWS.
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 22, 2011, 5:38 p.m. EST by HelloHelloAll
(16)
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Demanding revolution without concrete demands make things much more difficult. If you have some concrete demands, then things might change.
Here are the two most important things for bring some equality to USA.
- Totally free Healthcare
- Totally free Education. And i mean all the way to Master of blablablas and Doctor of blablablas.
And anyone who opposes with lame excuses like "these things would destroy the US economy" should be slapped in the face with Finland, my home country.
In Finland we have both 1. and 2. in action for many decades and we are doing very well. Our economy is great even though we don't have any significant resources (for example not a single drop of oil like those lucky Norwegian **. Basically our most significant resource is wood, and it grows slowly compared to e.g. South American or Chinese trees.) Our success is not caused either by "old money", something that e.g. Switcherland has.
Actually only thing that explains our success is equality. That is a great resource that we have understood to harness. Sadly US has not.
And if you want to go even further:
- Inheritance tax of 100% for everything that exceeds, let's say, 100 000 $. (and something like 20% for under 100k$)
This is really important. This would prevent money from pileing up to some families. This is also hard to pass trought. There is a lot of opposers who think they deserve the money they have done nothing to acquire. Expect to live a perfect life under the protection of rich mommy and daddy :)
- Stop your constant warfare around the globe. And I wouldn't surprise if the "war on terror" would be a hoax. And even if it weren't, i think it's ridiculous that when approx 3k american civilians die you go and kill over 103k iraqi civilians (source: http://www.iraqbodycount.org/)(couldn't find afgan numbers) War is also very expensive.
That's it. Simple :) I also wish warm and non-rainy weather for all those OWS's camping outdoor :)
What the hell is so bad about inheritance? A goal of being successful and a parent is to make the lives of your children better. Plus at that point the money has been taxed countless times, and the people who get the inheritance wont get it until later in life.
Also the moment education becomes free, is the moment its quality will drop drastically. You sure as hell dont see any Finnish universities in the top universities in the world. They need large amounts of money to run, and making them free would drastically devalue degrees.
And like has what has been mentioned before. You cant even begin to compare the USA to Finland.
The bad thing about inheritance is that it helps pileing up the money for that 1%. Because money works the way that more you have money at start, the easier it is for you to acquire an amount of X money than it is for someone who has no money at all in the start. And because your country does not have free edu and health, the start is already easier for rich kids.
At least our school system has been ranked the best in the world for several times. Last time it think only Shanghai won us (just shanghai, not the whole china).
And you cant compare our top universities to your top universities. Because there is approx 60 more people in USA there is also roughly 60 more people in age to apply to university. Even though if only 20 of those would have money or willing to take student loan you still have 20 times more people applying to top universities and that's why the level in your top universities is better than in ours.
So I mean that because you have so big country, you have just more to choose from.
https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/
That is a list of grievances which are a pretty good starting point for discussing how to dismantle the fascism that has subverted our government. Please send it along to everyone you know, it deserves to be read. It hasn't been covered by the mainstream media because it is such a damning document.
We need to try George and Dick for their part of the Iraq war. No 100% inheritance tax we just need a system that allows regular people to support themselves.
This person is right. OWS lacks unity, therefore this will never work.
All patents should be open source the number of people who have honestly made money of their own invention in America can be counted one hand. 2 Full government disclosure on top secret illegal operations like war and prepulsion energy technology.
So you mean no patents?
That's a great way to kill nations innovation. Why would anybody put an effort to invent something if the invention would be immediately stolen?
Well its ussaully stolen anyway especially when it comes to free energy. To see how american industry really works go to www.youtube.com and look up free energy or go to www.truththeory.com and type in light bulb conspiracy. I know its not your fault for not knowing this i blame it on our University system that helps the media supress true knowledg. Keep on seeking young man
Well fundamentaly patents are good but yea, reality may be twisted.
I have seen one document about planned obsolescence in Finnish National TV. This document also discussed about the old light bulb conspiracy, the life of light bulbs was limited for a long time to 1000h.
By the way here are for all a punch of important things to watch:
I am hoping that open source patents will become a seconary focal point, tonight i will make a post of my own further explianing my stance.
I agree, we can totally afford 100% free healthcare and education even if we're spreading our freedom around the world, have a dozen agencies that are useless and are 16 trillions in debt... I'm sure Finland is in the same situation.
Well we are lucky not to have useless agencies.
US Dept per citizen is 48 269 $
Ours is something like 14 000 €, so approx 20 000 $
And you can explain in detail the trade off if we go that way. Free healthcare and education are not free - some resource pays, who pays, what does it mean to the individual citizen, how does it relate to you??
USA - per cap income $40,584 yr 9.0+ unemployment FIN - per cap income $ 35,300 yr 7.9+ unemployment
USA - savings rate around 0% FIN - savings rate (negative) 3.8 %
USA - personal debt 16.09% of annual disposable income FIN - personal debt - 101% of annual disposable income
USA - produce 5M bbl/day consume 19.6 bbl/ day FIN - produce 8,718 bbl/day NO natural gas - consume 217,400
I agree that we could afford free this and that FOR ONE YEAR by getting rid of a dozen agencies - what about the next year when there are no more agencies you want to get rid of.
Now, my preference: I agree, we can totally afford to get rid of those agencies and pay down the national debt.
Fiscal responsibility and downsizing government? Never!
your free healthcare isnt free. you pay for with taxes. free education isnt free either, payed for by taxes. islamic terrorism is not a hoax. http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
Yes you are 300% right on those islamofascists.
The ONLY study done on the motives of suicide terrorism CLEARLY demonstrates that they attack us because they hate our infidel guts:
"Dying to Win: The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism" by Robert Pape:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dying_to_Win:_The_Strategic_Logic_of_Suicide_Terrorism
Haven't been any terrorist attacks here even tought we are "infidels" too. Mainly US and also a bit in UK. But that's it.
And there will be probably allways some religious fights in world, you americans have just made A HUGE number about it.
Your country's media is just obsessed with terrorism and that influences the citizen's minds obviously.
Read the link, specially the explanations of chapter 1 and 12, you'll totally understand my style :)
No ** Sherlock :D of course we cover the expenses with little higher taxes but in the long run it's an investment.
So you think that some smart'n'potential kid doesn't deserve education because his/hers parents are poor? Is that equality? No!
And due to this inequality in USA poverty is inherited from parents to child. Fucking fare.
if the kid is smart enough the kid can get a scholarship. Student loans are now controlled by the obama administraion in 0bamacare. banks are no longer able to give loans for school. want to go on to college? help to pay for it. save for it. go to a community college for a couple of years. did you mean FAIR? life is not fair. get over it
How you can talk like that?
Is your argument really "life is not fair. get over it" ??????????????????
I bet the Bankers of Wall Street use the same argument when somebody critises their salaries.
Hi. Your county has 5.4 million people, 83% of which are all the same ethnicity. We have 310 million people and our diversity is great. We have states that are 3-5 times more population than Finland. You have slightly more people than the state of Alabama, and i can assure you that the white people in Alabama mostly think exactly the same. America has greater diversity and problems aren't solved so easily.
That is a silly argument. You should rather explain; why USA can not follow Finland model.
It is not a silly argument. Do you not understand that ethnic diversity creates a problem all of its own? It means people's perceptions about what is right or wrong, or what is fair, have completely different meanings. Our country is very divided, and there are lots on both sides.
Well said. And we can't just go around paying for people to get a PhD in whatever they want, too many of them are useless.
Why couldn't you? We afford to pay even YOU a PhD.
You heard right. We educate foreigners too for free. And you don't even need to speak finnish. We educate in english too.
Because we have about 60 people for every 1 person in Finland. And we also have a lot of students who do not properly research their choice of study and it results in people with expensive degrees with no actual skills or job prospects.
I would encourage all Americans to go to Finland if they want to see another part of the world and get a great deal on an education. I think it is great that even foreigners are educated for free. I don't that is something the vast majority of Americans would support. A huge amount of people here complain about the amount of tax money used for public K-12 education. There is no way something like this would get any widespread support at all.
I graduated with almost $200K in debt and I paid it back no problem. If I can do it others can too, and if they can't they shouldn't be taking the loans in the first place.
You have 60 times more tax payers too. And you cant here either study whatever you want. The government controls the starting positions at all programs and to make it, you have to beat others with grades.
And I believe here is a same kind of effect we have with the conscript army discussions. "If i was forced to go to army, so should the current generation go"
"If i paid my own education, so should every generation after me too"
One thing that might work would be to pay back some percentage for those who have already paid their edu, but that might be a bit too expensive.