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Forum Post: Many of You are Wrong

Posted 11 months ago on Nov. 25, 2013, 11:05 p.m. EST by sharmag (-115)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Capitalism is good. Greed is good. You all are greedy, it's not just something found on the great Street. The stock market is not evil, nor is business, and nor is finance. The 1% deserves their position, as do corporations. Most of you do not understand the basics of economics, finance, or business and yet you continue to put out this garbage. This post was meant to foster discussion, so please comment below and I will reply with a counter argument point-by-point.

36 Comments

36 Comments


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[-] 6 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 11 months ago

I can't believe you just wrote what you wrote. I'll give it to you that greed is a permanent feature of the human condition. But to acquiesce to one group's greed, is to be a slave to that group's desires.

For the last four decades the working class has kept quiet and adapted to the loss of purchasing power of our wages. Even if capitalism is the best system humanity could ever hope for, that does not mean those who are not the masters should role over and quietly take what is offered.

I believe the economy is suffering right now because, for too long, those without political power have not stood up and demanded fair wages. If money runs through the economy like blood through a body, our economy is about to have an aneurysm.

[+] -4 points by sharmag (-115) 11 months ago

But there must also be a balance. Maybe better wages, but no redistribution of wealth. Also, wages going up too much can increase unemployment and lower corporate profits which is very bad.

[-] 4 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 11 months ago

You know that balance is off kilter when Grover Norquist and Ralph Nader both agree that the minimum wage is inadequate. The link I provided down below is a well sourced policy brief. Sources range from government agencies to left wing think tanks and even features right wing rags. I believe the minimum wage should, at a bare minimal, be indexed to inflation. It is not efficient to sit idle while quantitative easing subsidizes the stock market and deflates the purchasing power of a great swath of the American people.

. .

http://www.demos.org/sites/default/files/publications/A%20Higher%20Wage%20Is%20Possible.pdf . .

Raising the minimum wage should be more of a right wing proposition than a left wing wish. I don't know how many times I here Conservatives harp about welfare being a vote buying mechanism. What better way to end voter subservience than to ensure wage earners are self sufficient.

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[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 11 months ago

Wages can and should be dealt with through increased unionization.

Full unionization of the entire workforce is one of the most noble goals imaginable.

You also completely misunderstand "corporate profits", they ARE PURE redistribution of wealth.

Just in a very vile, useless, direction.

So far, in spite of your thread title, it's YOU who's mostly incorrect.

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[-] 3 points by GirlFriday (17435) 11 months ago
  1. You are a multiple ID cockroach right wing paid to post troll.
  2. Your purpose is to instigate a bunch of shit.
  3. You are a multiple ID cockroach right wing paid to post troll.
[+] -4 points by sharmag (-115) 11 months ago

1 and 3. No I most certainly am not. Debate is one thing, but conspiracy theory and personal allegations are another. I am just someone voicing their opinion, which is actually backed by knowledge and experience.

  1. Please elaborate.
[-] 2 points by elf3 (2726) 11 months ago

http://www.iamthedoc.com/

watch this film then please tell me if you still agree with your own comment (can get on Netflix if you have it)

many like you do not understand that corporations are gearing our government for their own greedy purposes. As a construct, democracy was not designed to favor the one percent, or greed, nor a stock market. It was designed to pool funds earned by the people to the benefit of all of society. The myth that corporations are people is being debunked day by day. When 99 percent of the citizenry is working within a system of they did not create that benefits only one percent of society to afford products owned mostly by only one percent of society and sold in monopolistic stores then that one percent takes that wealth from and pays off the government of the people that work for them to disenfranchise them and take their collective funds for corrupt use and to make it harder for them to become entrepreneurs or compete against them- I think they call that Communism. They have a similar system over in North Korea or China my friend if you enjoy the greater good of working your ass off to pay for the over-inflated commodities of the one percent while running on a treadmill the rest of your days unable to gain any ground always chasing your tail. Don't worry if you don't like it they have a place for you in those countries called work camps - you'll find similar people in there. Coming soon to America! Forced labor camps and organ donation - hey why not after all corporate America is already their "business" partner and modeling "democracy" after them.

[-] -1 points by sharmag (-115) 11 months ago

I have already seen this, as well as Zeitgeist and many others and am still convinced. I would go point by point on your comment, but I am a little busy right now and will do so later.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26017) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 months ago

You All are Wrong

Yep - that sounds familiar - as coming from an individual who has been told ( by Many - everyone? ) - that they have a serious mental problem and should seek professional help.

[-] -3 points by sharmag (-115) 11 months ago

When have I been told that and by whom? I think the fact that you make personal allegations implies that you have no further argument to make and concede that I am right. But really, who and when?

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (26017) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 months ago

Sorry sham-wipe - but I am not gonna go there - except to say that everyone who has been here for more than a couple of months ( and cares in the slightest bit ) - knows that "U" R A Shill.

[-] -3 points by sharmag (-115) 11 months ago

Additionally, you have still not given me a list detailing the occasions on which I have been told I have mental issues.

[+] -4 points by sharmag (-115) 11 months ago

Please do not insult my name or make personal comments. I don't get why you occupiers are so personal and vindictive. That does explain why many of you (with the exception of some cool-headed people like JesseHeffran) are quite unintelligent and don't possess much knowledge or experience. It's also a possible reason why you are here, because your lack of logic and ability to argue and have business relationships keep you in the dark on issues. Also, I'm not a shill and you have no evidence that I am one.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26017) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 months ago

I'm sorry - was that - shame-wipe?

[-] -3 points by sharmag (-115) 11 months ago

This is further proof of my statement. We in the business world and Wall Street are bad? You are the one making insulting and immature comments on a legitimate discussion. Please make some valid points.

[-] 2 points by elf3 (2726) 11 months ago

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. Chief Seattle, Duwamish (1780-1866)

And if you aren't a program created by them ...please watch Death by China

Corporate America is shooting itself in the foot and this ship is going to falter you're money won't save you only your souls will have to answer for the mess you've created.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26017) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 months ago

Greed is the #1 cause of Disease Death And Destruction.

Happy? I knew U would B.

[-] -3 points by sharmag (-115) 11 months ago

You are greedy. You are just as greedy as I am, or anyone else for that matter. Denying that is going against basic economic and psychological FACT.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26017) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 months ago

Sorry - but "I" unlike "U" - am not self-centered.

[+] -4 points by sharmag (-115) 11 months ago

Greed and ego aren't the same. Furthermore, what makes you think I am self-centered, or at least more so than you? You are greedy. Greed defines your nature and actions. That is true of everyone, from the top 1% to homeless people. We are all equally greedy.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26017) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 months ago

U R deranged:

Deranged - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deranged

Deranged may refer to psychosis, a generic psychiatric term for a mental state often described as involving a "loss of contact with reality".

[-] -2 points by sharmag (-115) 11 months ago

How does this relate to me?

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26017) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 months ago

U "should" be aware of how it relates - but obviously U R Drain Bamaged.

[-] -2 points by sharmag (-115) 11 months ago

I'm not.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26017) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 months ago

Sure sure sshhhhsh its OK - all is just fine - sleep sleep and dream peaceful dreams.

[ Has Anyone Located it's keepers yet? ]

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[-] 1 points by prospector22 (185) from Brooklyn, NY 11 months ago

There are many economists and good people who have had careers in finance who understand the system very well, and they now share a strong affinity with Occupy.

You do not have to have a degree in economics though to understand the uneven playing field that has been set up by the .01%

Nor do you need a degree of any kind to understand how this rigged system has played out in a plethora of detrimental ways to so many people... throughout the World.

Rather the only research you need to do is talk to an acquaintence, friend or loved one that has been screwed by this corrupted system.

[-] -2 points by sharmag (-115) 11 months ago

You don't need a degree to see the effects, but you need some knowledge to understand the causes. I share some views with Occupy too, like the fact that the government is not doing what it should. I disagree over the role of the private system.

[-] 1 points by prospector22 (185) from Brooklyn, NY 11 months ago

"You don't need a degree to see the effects, but you need some knowledge to understand the causes."... to the crisis that THEY were most responsible for causing?

From your above reply to Ms Friday, "1. Please elaborate."

Can I deduce from that statement that you believe that we should go back to people like Dimon, Greenspan, Blankfein, Summers, Rubin and their minions to seek a thorough understanding of "the causes," AND hence the solutions to the crisis that THEY perpetrated on the people of the World? Give me a minute...ok?...lololol

Can I also deduce from your statement that the many brilliant minds that support Occupy & who have World-class educations are incapable of understanding "the causes" or more succinctly the fraud that was perpetrated on the people throughout the World??... OR is it 'cause... since they weren't part of the fraud in most cases, their voices have no validity?!

"I share some of the views with Occupy too, like the fact that government is not doing what it should."

Again, "1. Please elaborate."

So like most people that I know in Occupy, can I assume that, you believe that the big banks "should" be broken up, right?

And do you believe then, like most of Occupy does "that the government"... "should" have started criminal proceedings for fraud against the banksters a long time ago?

And you must agree (?) that these criminal bankers who have caused so much human misery throughout the World should replace the young people in our real prisons who were put there for minor drug offenses, especially since the big banks have profited illiclitly (and still do) and so heavily from private prisons & the PIC on the whole?!

This would seem very apropos, kinda like like real justice to me, but then again..I have no degree, just a strong sense of right and wrong.

And finally you must agree like all the Occupiers that I know that the banksters' ill-gotten gains & * then some.. should be forfeited back to the oodles of people that they screwed...right?!

Thanks for giving me the opprtunity to ask these questions. It was fun. I look forward to hearing what will have to be your convoluted answers to these rather simple questions.

[-] -3 points by sharmag (-115) 11 months ago
  1. Most of the bankers you mention have done more good than harm.
  2. Their voices have validity, but so does mine.
  3. No they shouldn't be broken up.
  4. I think criminal proceedings are appropriate for some, but not for the majority of the financial industry. For example, I fully support the criminal trial of Bernie Madoff and think he deserves to rot in prison.
  5. No, they shouldn't replace real criminals. Most of them didn't break the law.
  6. No, I don't think theft and wealth redistribution are good.
[-] 0 points by prospector22 (185) from Brooklyn, NY 11 months ago

You are living in a different World than me. We are probably both happy about that, albeit for very different reasons.

[-] -1 points by sharmag (-115) 11 months ago

In what way? We could be in similar situations (or not), but I'm curious as to what exactly you mean.

[-] 0 points by prospector22 (185) from Brooklyn, NY 11 months ago

We are both pretty much privy to the same facts, but yet we have obviously come to almost totally different conclusions on the sad state of our country..

I cannot see how you are serious in your observations, and I don't know if that is because you are one of the few beneficiaries of the corrupt status quo or not. Either way.. whether we ever have your support or not, it doesn't matter much for us as we have the support of many good people and that number will be growing, not shrinking. That i can assure you.

Edit; It's time to ask yourself as some former Wall Streeters who are now Occupiers must have done; Do I want to be on the wrong side of history? The choice is yours.

[-] 1 points by Tanakasan (-7) 11 months ago

If our goal is to provide healthcare, a home, food, vacation time and retirement to all of our population then the only economic system that works is socialism. Mathematically, we can't tax the 1% enough to pay for these expenditures so we need a system where the government takes all income and redistributes it back out.

[-] 1 points by sharmag (-115) 11 months ago

But that's not the goal. The government doesn't need to give those things, only some of them.

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[-] 0 points by nazihunter (215) 11 months ago

Prove it.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 11 months ago

All of you are wrong.

Give me an actual point to argue with.

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