Forum Post: Wisconsin...Why I'm Voting for a Conservative in November
Posted 11 years ago on June 7, 2012, 6:09 a.m. EST by sophiaomni
(289)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
The re-election of Scott Walker in Wisconin recently has convinced me that we all really need to vote for a conservative for President in the November election. As it's turns out, that conservative happens to be Barack Obama.
Here's my argument. Let me know what you think:
http://www.michaelsrusso.org/2012/06/wisconsinor-why-im-voting-for.html
Conservative: Obama is a Marxist, hell bent on destroying America.
Liberal: Why?
Conservative: dunno, cause my pastor said so.
Liberal: Okay ... that's retarded.
Conservative: plus, Obama is a black Kenyan.
Liberal: oh, wow, anyway, I hate corporate money in politics.
Conservative: then why do you accept so much of it?
Liberal: cause you guys do.
Conservative: so if I jumped off a bridge, would you follow me?
Political independent: partisans are douche bags, I wish you guys would all jump off the nearest fucking bridge :)
Conservative: so if I jumped off a bridge, would you follow me?
Liberal: Please! Jump!!
Did I just say that? ok, that was mean. I am joking. : )
You definitely get points for having a good sense of humor. That's something that is definitely lacking in our current political climate!
I agree with your argument completely. I also think that the stakes are too high to risk voting for a third party candidate who might better reflect the ideals of the OWS movement. I voted for Obama in 2008 and had great hopes for him, but he has let me down far too often. I don't know if I'd say that he is the same as George W. Bush, but his policies haven't been different enough for my tastes.
Like you, I'm going to support Obama because I don't want the Whitehouse and Congress run by people who would be beholden to the Tea Party and the most politically extreme elements of the Republican party. It's too frightening to even think about!
Like wiping one's backside - voting for The Democrap, Ohbummer in a two horse race with Republicon, Mittens Romulan - is NOT a subject for a conversation in polite company - but WTF is the option ?!
The thought of A Replicant in The Whitehouse trying to 'Wisconsinise' the entire country, backed by Teabaggers and the associated suckers of The Koch Bros' cash is a truly stomach turning thought !!
There is an urgent need for a political party to Truly Represent 'Labour" - as opposed to the situation now where both sides of the 'faux dichotomy of Republocrat / Demoblican', only ever really represents "Capital". Past November '2012's 'Presidential Selection', it is high time for a real "American Labour Party" and / or Real Independents !!!
per aspera ad astra ...
so don't mention obama, bush and obama(I meant Romney) all come from harvard ?
What can't we elect a president who graduated from a state university. We'd all be better off!
Is it any wonder that Harvard graduates have no sympathy for the plight of average Americans?
sort of a United States Royalty
It is. And the more I think about it the crankier I get, lol. We just can't let it happen. If there is anything like a Warren/Sanders ticket in 2016 or an OWS approved candidate (is there such a thing?) I will spend every spare minute working for them but in the meantime we have to make a wise, if painful decision.
I wish that could happen, but you saw how even members of the labor movement actually voted for Walker in Wisconsin. There's too much false consciousness among the electorate for a real progressive candidate to win right now, I'm afriad.
This year, yes. But I think the OWS movement, along with the popularity of RP and the surge in independent voters in recent years reveals that people are ready. There are some good videos on this website that made me feel very hopeful about this: http://www.independentvoting.org/
2016, my friend. We'll have plenty of time to get a third party up and running before then.
I believe it will happen. My hopes are more about that election than the upcoming one. If only people will begin to work for it now..
I think there will be plans to get organized at the DNC. I wouldn't go for the main event, but for the alternatives that will be presented outside of the event.
Every election cycle gutless voters vote for the lesser of two evils. Result, the power of the lesser evil increases for 4-8 years, then the other increases for another 4-8 years, until both are greater evils. Explain the logic.
In my mind, I've been comparing this to the movie 127 hours lately. The movie protagonist gets his hand literally stuck between a rock and hard place. In vain, he attempts every possible solution he can think of to free his hand. But the more he struggles to free himself and save his hand, the more the hand becomes trapped. In the end, the only solution to become free is to cut off the hand.
The parties work the same way. They have logistically trapped us between a political rock and a hard place, and by playing on our insecurities of what will happen if we don't support one party or the other, they keep us there. We get wedged in tighter and tighter trying to save our asses from the other party. And our situation grows more dire. In the end, I wonder, do we have the collective courage to cut off our hand? It would hurt like hell, but how else can we free ourselves?
Excellent analogy
Thank you much. It will likely get worse before it gets better, but if we take the courageous route, it will get better.
That's one of my favorite movies.
Based on a true story, very moving. It brought a tear to my eye. I'm a sap for happy endings.
Yes, it did that for me too when he figures out what really matters in life. Such a great movie.
If I remember correctly, he learned that he needed other people and could not survive acting the part of the unstoppable, rugged individual...hmmm....now where have I heard that theme before. LOL. I was so there with this character, I actually felt like I was the one being saved when he finally found those people at the end. That movie drained me..in a good way.
Psychological catharsis.
Brainy relief.
Sure - you saw you felt - you approved.
Actually, when he got his hand stuck in the rock, I was not approving - I was yelling at him, "Stupid, I told you that was going to happen. You should have listened to me."
Ah - yes - the omnipotent view. The watcher often times has advantage of foreknowledge and can't help but to shout a warning to the idiot. I'd be concerned if you had just sat back and watched with no emotion.
Foreshadowing gets me every time. It's like foreplay, except for movies.
That was my thought - playful.
[-] 2 points by JadedCitizen (3000) 0 minutes ago
Sure, just kidding. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink
OH - So sorry - no disrespect intended - thought we might be OK without formalities - My Bad. {:-D
[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (2988) 0 minutes ago
That is Miss Chievous to you, pal. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink
Sure, just kidding.
You are very mischievous - I can tell. Cool.
[-] 2 points by JadedCitizen (2988) 1 minute ago
I knew I could stimulate your laugh response with my slowly building humor. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink
That is Miss Chievous to you, pal.
Haahahaaahhaha - foreplay is awesome - you can live in the moment - you can also keep a sense of self - and you don't really let it disrupt your experience - instead you enhance.
I knew I could stimulate your laugh response with my slowly building humor.
I agree. It was very draining, but the message resonates with me to this day, and it's on my top ten movie list.
Psychological catharsis.
Good way to put it.
Thank you - I do believe that if you have a mind that can see - you can learn much through presentation of an-others story.
I couldn't bump the original Benji movie. LOL.
LOLOL!
Great analogy! Logic and courage versus fear and emotion. One choice will free us, the other will enslave us.
You don't stop smoking cigarettes by lighting up another one. By the same logic, you won't remove evil, lesser or otherwise, from power by voting them in again.
No, sometimes they vote for worst of evils.
Three drone strikes in as many days on suspected militants have killed 27 people, Pakistani intelligence officials say.
http://news.yahoo.com/pakistan-condemns-u-drone-strikes-154652091.html
Rollerball afterparty
In exercising your vote, the question should be, what do I want as an individual. The answer should be the person you decide to cast your one vote for.
Engaging in an inquiry as to how other people will vote, or whether he has the money to convince people in sufficient numbers to support him amounts to abandoning your inalienable personal right to cast your vote according to your conscience.
We do not vote to be seen as having correctly predicted the winner. This will amount to turning the exercise into a game. It is much more serious that that. So serious that I cannot imagine why anybody will contemplate voting for someone they detested or thought unsuitable simply because others appear to be swayed his way.
It is also unhelpful to stay away because you have calculated that your candidate will not win or the process will be rigged against him. Unhelpful and wrong! it is your right to have a say and in an election you can only have your say through your vote. The fact that others may not agree with you does not mean you should not have your say or worse still that you should abandon your say and adopt what others are saying. It is like forsaking your certificate of ‘personal sovereignty!
http://saharareporters.com/article/what-vote
I suppose that I have started to buy into the lesser of two evils argument. Obama is not a candidate that I can believe in whole-heartedly, because he has sacrificed important principles on far too many occasions. But I am convinced that if Romney wins it will embolden the right wing in this country.
Sometimes you have to be pragmatic...unfortunately.
You know, Braveheart would have been a terrible movie if he had been pragmatic at the end. But do as you will, it's a free country.
Amen. Your blog captures my sentiment exactly. I just hope this movement is still around in 2014 and '16 so maybe a real progressive could win those campaigns. Good post!
Well I'm glad that someone agrees with me. We must be two very brilliant fellows!
Why bother with that November election. Whoever wins aint gonna change the world for the better....
' better off working for change outside the two party system.
You are probably right, except that, if Obama wins, we might not slide as far right as would be the case if Romney won. I'm not saying that we'd get truly progressive policies during Obamas' second term, but at least we won't get economic fascism.
There is no need to be vulgar and hostile. It makes you seem inarticulate, no matter what your political position is. We are all human beings. Disrespect for one person means disrespect for yourself.
I certainly hope that I wasn't being vulgar or hostile. I'm just trying to have a spirited debate. I actually enjoy arguing with libertarians (and even a few social conservatives on accasion)!
conservatives want to conserve tradition
human culture perpetuates by imitation
one human builds a wheel; and every human around builds wheel
children repeat the action of there parents
this creates a stable social order
following the methods of the past
we preserve rule/ideas that have been successful in the past
this gives a lasting permanence to human culture
so BP dumping oil on the gulf and mountaintop removal - which has destroyed 500 mountains and hundreds of small towns where poeple have lived for 200 years - so these industries which are the darling of conservatives - are perpetuating human culture?
it's not conservative
There's no shame in being a one term president. I'm prepared for this election to go either way because the president has become too much of a figurehead. I think the Tea Party wants Obama to win but I don't care who wins. Putting the TP in it's place is more important than this election.
I wouldn't mind if Obama became a one term president because he stood for something. But I'm afraid that if he loses this fall, it will make the right wing think that they have a mandate for their extreme agenda. And that's a very frightening prospect!
The only thing he "stood for" was election...
"Extreme agenda"? Bushbamney expanded war overseas, uses drones to kill civilians abroad and authorized their use at home (HR658), and he also signed NDAA 2012, HR347 and HR3606. How much more "extreme" can you get?
That's exactly the point of my post. All of those are things that Bush would have enacted. My argument is that Obama is actually a center-of-right politician...definitely no liberal, and even less a socialist. The difference between him and Romney is that at least Obama is uncomfortable with handing over our government to corporations. Romney would do that joyfully. It's the difference between a conservative ideology (Obama) and a corporate fascist ideology (Romney).
The democratic party you're thinking of ... hasn't existed for a long time.
Wouldn't it be nice, though, to have a real alternative to the corporatist policies of both the Dems and the Reps. But that's wishful thinking right now. That's why I'm forced to hold my nose and support Obama.
If my only choice was between obama and romney i wouldn't vote at all. Do you live in a swing state?
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demand elections be national and state holidays
Barack Obama is more conservative than a California republican. Even they legalized weed.
Romney and Obama are both the wrong direction to lead America.
Trevor that is absurd. Just because Obama has conservative views on marijuana does not make him more conservative than a California Republican. Marijuana is just another wedge issue to screw with the prioroties at hand. I wish to high heaven you would get over your hard on for Barack Obama. There truly is a lesser of evils in the upcoming election and he is it. Maybe instead of the crusade against Obama, expend that energy on supporting someone for 2016 who can finally rid us of the 2 party system.
Anyone who has such a violent foreign policy will always have me speaking against them.
I don't care which is worse, they're both fucking terrible. Obomney is the wrong direction for this country. Supporting people who are pro-war and support the fraudulent banking system is counterproductive to the goals of OWS. Vote for who you want, but blind support will get you nowhere. Criticize this administration on all it's failures. You can still vote for it. But don't silence others.
End the wars. End the debt. End the fraud. Regulate Wall Street. Use our tax dollars to build our nation not bomb others.
Defense Spending to be 60% federal discretionary spending
George Bush - Patriot Act, Abuse of AUMF, Black Water, Attacked Nations That Did Not Attack Us, Wall Street Bailouts, use of torture, sued many times over by the ACLU
Barack Obama - Patriot Act, Abuse of AUMF, International Development Solutions (formerly Black Water), Attacked Nations that Did Not Attack us, Wall Street Bailouts, Sued many times by the ACLU, Indefinite detention laws that apply to American citizens, and assassination of American citizens in Yemen without providing any evidence of their crimes or the legal authority to kill them. HR 347 - the anti-protest bill.
Romney supports all of the above and says corporations are people.
I am so disappointed in my fellow Americans for choosing such terrible leaders year after year. I don't care which is worse, they're all terrible. I will not vote for those that Goldman Sachs wants elected.
Unlimited resources for the banks and nothing for the people. Does there exist a more graphic example of how thoroughly rotten this financial system is? We're bailing out banks while the banks are accelerating foreclosures on millions of American homes. 14 million out of work! 50 million without real healthcare (no public option for anyone) ...and Endless wars. The Federal Reserve creates money out of nothing, gives it to the banks, banks keep it on deposit, gain interest, pays high CEO bonuses, fat cat city... all while the rest of America falls apart.
Fed creates 7.7 trillion out of nothing for their own private interests - it doesn't get any clearer than this - PLEASE WATCH - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUpXDZFtEHw
"There's another game going on way over our heads. The people are struggling... while the banks with the help of the federal reserve have captured control of our government. Could the threat to our nation's sovereignty be any clearer?"
The current and past administrations have all played along in this game of corruption.
I refuse to vote to continue any level of this fraud or the wars. I will be voting for third party this year. Go ahead and mock that, but I'm the guy not voting for war, not voting for bailouts, and not voting for fraud.
I understand how you feel completely. It's tough voting for the lesser of two evils all the time.
Not mocking you, not trying to change your vote, and agree with much of what you say. I don't blindly support or agree with Obama on everything. At the same time, I never expected instant gratification when I voted for him. And now am looking for the best means to an end. Five months from now, who am I the most afraid of- who will set us back. You actively try to influence people to vote third party which could tip the balance for fascists who will bring real oppression down on us. Making some kind of statement is not important enough to let that happen, IMO. Best to you, but I disagree.
Yes. Blame the guy not voting for the fascists.
Blame the guy not voting for warmongers.
See where that gets you.
You and the other people with that opinion can keep trying to convince yourself that it's all Nader's fault and that only republicans support stealing our rights and starting wars. Nader was the guy who wanted public option college, public option healthcare, no wars, and campaign finance reform.You ever look at the voting history on the AUMF against Iraq? A lot of D's and R's. Or go back to 1998 when Bill Clinton says there is clear evidence of WMD's in Iraq. History and voting records don't lie. Look into the truth. They're working for the same machine. There was a better option than Obama in 2008 running in the democratic primaries, but the D's chose to follow who had the most money and who the news says was the most viable. Funny how the news always backs the people with the most money. It's a policy for the newspaper in my city. Obama ran on supporting the patriot act and increasing a war. What the hell? Why weren't people voting for the democrat who tried to impeach Bush? The guy with the perfect voting record. This is why your blame on people like me is ridiculous. I ended up voting for Obama in 2008 after Dennis Kucinich lost out in the primaries and Obama became the nominee. I felt more pressured by my parents to vote for the lesser of 2 evils because I did not fully trust Obama. All thing in play, all Obama had to do to EARN my vote again was not bomb more countries than Bush. I learned my lesson on where voting for the "lesser" of 2 evils gets you. It gets evil.
Obama himself said he'd be a one term option if he didn't have everything fixed in 3 years. If he stuck to that then democrats could have a choice of a better option. - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCN5-ovvFL0
Instead of changing his ways, he's going to run on the hopes that people really don't like Romney. That's a losing strategy for the American people.
Sad but true - "The Obama administration’s adoption of the stonewalling tactics and opaque policies of the Bush administration flies in the face of the president’s stated desire to restore the rule of law. ... when these photos do see the light of day, the outrage will focus not only on the commission of torture by the Bush administration but on the Obama administration's complicity in covering them up." - ACLU
http://www.aclu.org/2009/05/13/obama-administration-reverses-promise-to-release-torture-photos
I refuse to support this.
Instead of blaming people like me if Obama loses, blame Obama for doing such a terrible job as president and not being able to earn voter support. I don't care who is worse, Obama and Romney are both terrible options for a president to lead our country.
People need to pay more attention to congress too. Congress is so much more important. It'd be nice to have a congress willing to abide the laws impeach presidents for war crimes. Then we wouldn't have a problem with any president because congress could keep 'em in check.
the incumbent R congressman for my district won in the primaries for his party. How does any incumbent win a primary when congress has a 9% approval rating?
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George Bush was no conservative and BO is to the left of him. Obama himself considers himself a Marxist Communist, so Mike Russo is right, he is no Socialist. There is not one conservative policy in the presidents quiver, from deficit spending to gay marriage, the man is a Marxist revolutionary set on the destruction of individual freedom in America.
I really don't give a hoot who you vote for, but at least have the courage to tell the truth about your candidate... even though he is too much of a coward to to take off the sheeps cloak and tell the truth about himself.
Obama is more of a hawk on foreign policy than Bush; he bailed out the banks, just like Bush; he's done nothing positive about global warming; he has been extremely tepid on gay marriage (until forced to take a stand).
In what way is the bastard a Marxist Communist? And when did he ever call himself one? He has always called himself a centrist, and in the US, the center is center-right.
If you want to talk about courage, why don't you just admit that conservatives hate Obama primarily because he's black. That's why they keep talking about his "otherness" and "alienness."
I think I'm much more honest than you. At least I can look objectively at Obama and criticise him where appropriate. Can you do the same for Romney?
republicans just like a target to get attention and give attention
He is lying because he knows Americans would not have voted for him had they known the truth.
The "bastard" is a Marxist Communist.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/report-new-documents-show-obama-was-a-member-of-the-far-left-new-party/
http://hallicino.hubpages.com/hub/Top-20-Events-Which-Prove-Obama-Is-A-Marxist-Communist
I'm sorry but you don't know what you are talking about. The guy is as much of a Marxist as Ronald Reagan or Richard Nixon. In fact, Nixon had a much better environmental record than Obama.
Richard Nixon was more "Liberal" than Obama. Which is totally nuts.
I can't tell if you are agreeing with me or not. Richard Nixon at least was committed to regulating the banks and Wall Street and had a fairly good environmental record. I'm exaggerating of course, but the difference between Obama and a Republican like Nixon is not that great. Nixon, certainly couldn't have gotten away with assassinating American citizens the way Obama has.
I was in agreement. Does this jackass even know what marxism is? I don't think so.
I'm glad that we're in agreement.
Right-wingers just use this term because they think that people will get frightened if they think that Obama is a Marxist or a socialist. What these dopes don't realize is that no one under the age of 70 gives a crap about Marxism or even knows what the term means. I teach college students and the term "Marxism" carries no negative connotation with them at all. But "racist," "sexist," and "homophobic" all do. That's their real weakness with the non-geriatric population of this country,
Check out this article.
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2012/06/09
Ecellent piece, I sent it along to some of my friends. Thanks for sharing it!
You are ignoring the facts. There is no use to continue to argue with someone who willfully ignore Obamas own words and actions.