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Forum Post: Why FDR failed to change things permanently

Posted 1 year ago on Sept. 24, 2013, 10:34 p.m. EST by Kavatz (464) from Edmonton, AB
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

When there was no money available, he managed to create a crazy amount of jobs and pay all elderly monthly for life. Unemployment insurance and all sorts of expensive programs.

The rich were taxed fairly and everything seemed to get better. But why did everything get messed up again quickly after? Why are we back to bailing banks out, and all the other bullshit again and again?

Because he made sure not to change the corporation. Shareholders put corrupt directors in charge who do what they are required to do to increase profit. They are acting exactly the way they should in this system. They are following the rules (by undoing FDR's new "barriers"), so how can we punish them and change anything.

It is necessary to change the system. Taxation is NOT a solution.

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75 Comments


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[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

''We see the government continuing to put in place a rigged economy for the wealthiest. One example of horrendous policy is the Trans-Pacific Partnership, the largest trade agreement since the WTO. It is being negotiated in secret, and the terms have been classified as secret. As the former US Trade Representative Ron Kirk said, it is being kept secret because if the people knew what was in this agreement, it would not pass. Even operating in secret will not save this agreement. Opposition is growing; a cross-partisan alliance in Congress is developing, and research is showing how it will devastate most Americans. A recent study concluded that 90 percent of Americans would see their incomes decline if the TPP became law.'' from the excellent and inspiring :

respice, adspice, prospice ...

[-] 0 points by Kavatz (464) from Edmonton, AB 1 year ago

This is a gold mine for equishift resources, specifically Solutions.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

Your ''Equishift'' is a labour of love and is slowing bedding in here.

Good luck and solidarity to you and re. OWS and further fyi, see :

per ardua ad astra ...

[-] 1 points by Kavatz (464) from Edmonton, AB 1 year ago

Thanks again, shadz66

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

The ''(USPS) is the nation’s second largest civilian employer after Walmart. Although successfully self-funded throughout its long history, it is currently struggling to stay afloat. This is not, as sometimes asserted, because it has been made obsolete by the Internet. In fact the post office has gotten more business from Internet orders than it has lost to electronic email. What has pushed the USPS into insolvency is an oppressive 2006 congressional mandate that it prefund healthcare for its workers 75 years into the future. No other entity, public or private, has the burden of funding multiple generations of employees who have not yet even been born.

''The post office has been made to look inefficient and obsolete, as if public enterprises are incapable of generating public revenues; yet the postal service has been both self-funding and profitable for over two centuries. If we refuse to allow our government to make money through public enterprises, we will be destined to bear the burden of supporting government with our taxes, while we watch countries such as China, Korea and Japan, which do allow public industries, enjoy the fruits of that profitable and efficient arrangement.'' fyi & excerpted from :

Solidarity and ignore your persistent 'stinklers' who'll try to demoralise you. Ever onwards for The 99% !!!

consilio et animis ...

[-] 4 points by WSmith (1943) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Yes, let's bank at the Post Office!!

Garon: A savings account at the post office

Editor’s Note: Sheldon Garon is the Nissan Professor of History and East Asian Studies at Princeton University. He is the author of Beyond Our Means: Why America Spends While the World Saves.

By Sheldon Garon – Special to CNN

http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2012/01/12/garon-bring-back-postal-savings/

How to Save the United States Postal Service

Second, tell Congress to expand services at our local post offices. The Postal Service is a service, not a business. It is guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution. It is wrong to cut Saturday service which could affect 70,000 jobs and harm small businesses that would have to pay contractors higher rates than USPS to get mailing services.

Sheldon Garon, Nissan Professor of History and East Asian Studies at Princeton University, wrote an article at CNN advocating, “A savings account at the post office”.

According to Garon, most countries in Europe and East Asia allow people to open savings accounts in their post office. In the United States, there were postal savings accounts from 1911 to 1966.

Garon stated:

“To avoid competing with banks for larger depositors, postal savings accounts are capped at an amount that serves families of modest means.”

In addition, Garon claims that the savings accounts at post offices throughout the world typically “carry no fees and require no minimum balance or a low one.” This would help many Americans who currently have no bank because of high fees and low balances. They could open much needed savings accounts. Currently, many low income Americans use expensive check cashing companies that charge high fees.

Congress Must Act to Give USPS Flexibility to Make More Revenue

Passing legislation to allow USPS to offer postal banking would bring more people into the post office and would help Americans increase their savings. According to Garon, “one-fourth of low-income Americans are “unbanked.” They have no savings or checking accounts.”

The FDIC National Survey of Unbanked and Underbanked Households states:

“8.2 percent of US households are unbanked. This represents 1 in 12 households or nearly 10 million in total.”

Third, Let’s protect and preserve our historic post offices. Especially those built during the New Deal era that contain one of a kind beautiful art murals and sculptures reflecting the communities they serve. Each post office is the heart of its community. It is wrong that Postmaster General Donahoe is selling off our national treasures, relocating post offices from the centers of towns to the outskirts making it harder for people to use their post offices. Stop the sell-off of our national treasures and preserve our historic buildings for present and future generations.

There are creative solutions to save USPS which is our 2nd largest employer in the United States. It is in each citizen’s interest to preserve the United States Postal Service which is older than the United States of America. Our first Postmaster General, Benjamin Franklin, was appointed on July 27, 1775 by the Continental Congress. Let President Obama know we must keep universal service and six-day delivery of our mail!

http://thetruthaboutthepostoffice.wordpress.com/

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[-] 0 points by Kavatz (464) from Edmonton, AB 1 year ago

I know it's wrong to bump a thread. That's why I try to refrain these days.

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[-] 0 points by Kavatz (464) from Edmonton, AB 1 year ago

Yup

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[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

the government went into heavy borrowing to fund world war II

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

Taxation is a way to keep the system in place and still provide for the general welfare.

Money rises to the top

exchange of goods and services occurs when money changes hands

taxation puts the money back in the hands of the general welfare

to propel the exchange of goods and services

[-] 0 points by Kavatz (464) from Edmonton, AB 1 year ago

And here I thought taxes paid back the Fed for interest on money government borrowed to keep the economy alive...

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

a good deal of it does sadly

but the loan interest cycle only drives money to the already wealthy

the government need to tax much more from these collections of wealth to enable the flow of money for goods and services

[-] 0 points by Kavatz (464) from Edmonton, AB 1 year ago

If these are not done, no level of tax will have a long lasting effect/existence:

  • Retool the legal corporate structure (remove ALL power/rights)

  • Kill the Fed.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

that's simply not true

although the fed supports the private creation on money through dent of the aristocrats,

taxes can be used to oftset the needs for loans.

Why is cooperate structure an issue ?

[-] 0 points by Kavatz (464) from Edmonton, AB 1 year ago

From Shadz66' article posted here "More Americans realize their loss of income means increased profits for corporations and income for stock-holding wealthy Americans. And, it is not only income that has been lost, but the little wealth most Americans had has virtually disappeared. The Federal Reserve reported in 2012 that the median net worth of families dropped 39 percent in just three years, from $126,400 in 2007 to $77,300 in 2010."

Corporate structure is the systemic virus that causes this. Don't forget the Fed is a corporation too.

[-] 0 points by Kavatz (464) from Edmonton, AB 1 year ago

"Because he made sure not to change the corporation. Shareholders put corrupt directors in charge who what they are required to do to increase profit. They are acting exactly the way they should in this system. They are following the rules (by undoing FDR's new "barriers"), so how can we punish them and change anything."

Richard Wolff covers that in great detail.

The Fed only exist to keep power concentrated in the hands of a couple of people. That is it, regardless of what we're told. There is nothing they can do to help that government can't do alone for free (and save trillions to pay for whatever).

Now.. What's wrong with the structure of the corporation again??? Please!

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

corps have too much of the wealth ?

[-] 0 points by Kavatz (464) from Edmonton, AB 1 year ago

Corps are the conveyor belts that transfer the wealth.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

no, they tend to suck it up and hold on to it

that's one reason taxes are necessary

[-] 0 points by Kavatz (464) from Edmonton, AB 1 year ago

Actually there is no other way to convey the wealth to the elite individuals.

Taxes all go to the families of the owners of the Fed. The government borrows the money to pay for the things they say tax dollars buy.

If there were no corporations, there wouldn't be taxes. All income tax goes directly to the fed in the form of interest on money they literally didn't have a second before they loaned it.

It's a total scam. Made legal thanks to our faith in corporations.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

people that own the property collect the money up through rent and resources

[-] 0 points by Kavatz (464) from Edmonton, AB 1 year ago

Via corporations

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

via property ownership

corporation repeat orders from the top to execute distribution and collection

[-] 0 points by Kavatz (464) from Edmonton, AB 1 year ago

Pretty sure any significant landlord is a corporation. Bob Johnson who owns and rents the duplex down the road is insignificant.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

it reinforces acceptance of of the money flows to property structure

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

You completely forgot to include the the simple fact that the John Birch Society was formed, in part, to accomplish what you are ascribing to other forces.

Indeed, even today they continue to dismantle his legacy.

The question is...........

Why did you skip over this very important fact?

Were you exposed to chemtrails??????

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[-] 0 points by WSmith (1943) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Capitalism sucks, but like democracy, it's generally better than the alternatives.

[ Remember: There is NO PERFECTION! This means there are flaws, imperfections, and/or dangers in EVERYTHING. ]

Corporations are legal contracts to conduct and organize business. Think of them as labor unions for businesses. People are more effective (PROFITABLE) when they work together (SO LET'S ORGANIZE!!!).

Unfortunately, business needs laws, TAXES, rules and regulations to behave and serve (not harm) us people, just like we do. But greed, which used to be frowned on, tries its damnedest to cut corners, evade taxes, and run wild.

That's why we ratified laws to contain (dam) business to protect people from it and make sure it serves the people. But greed never gives up, and people forget after a problem has been solved.

Business, corporations, Big $, etc. have been eroding the dams that contain the greed and protect the people since the dams were built.

Raygun ~ really the Milton Friedman, MIC and Big $ cabal of zealots and greed ~ took a wrecking ball to the dams. The conventional wisdom of the day was that dams (laws, rules, TAXES, safeguards and regulations) had done their jobs and were no longer needed.

BIG LIE & BIG MISTAKE!!!

The police who confronted & accosted Occupy demonstrations nationwide, who were serving the corporate PTB by suppressing the exercise of our constitutional democracy, should be deployed in the corporate offices and boardrooms where the greatest redistribution theft of wealth ever is being committed on the people every day. While we rebuild and expand the dams!

[-] -1 points by Kavatz (464) from Edmonton, AB 1 year ago

Funny thing though, is that we don't need dams because we (humans) created the whole economy, money and market system. WE created these, not nature. Fuck the economy, it's not our god and we owe it nothing. We can very easily uncreate it all, hopefully before nature does it for us.

[-] 0 points by WSmith (1943) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

If we had no economy/money how would we pay for our internet service?

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

It's a microwave radio signal, unless you're on a hardline.

Once the infrastructure is in place, the costs are quite low.

In inner-city England, high speed broadband is free.

[-] 0 points by WSmith (1943) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

And what about cellular signals?

TV, radio, cellular, broadband, (must be more), how the hell did we let them do this to us? We need a box that receives all the damn signals and dispenses them for and at our convenience.

Hear that nerds! Get busy! You build the ball, we'll win the game!

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

LAN is the new workaround.

It will be web 3.0

Switch on your detection, and see how many puters are in your LAN.

[-] 0 points by WSmith (1943) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Did that for nearly 3 years, huge pain in the ass, very unreliable.

[-] 0 points by Kavatz (464) from Edmonton, AB 1 year ago

If we had no money based economy, the question would be "why would we pay?"

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[-] -1 points by WSmith (1943) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Matt Taibbi on How Wall Street Hedge Funds Are Looting the Pension Funds of Public Workers

[ Raygun Revolution Wrecking Ball at Work! ]

In his latest article for Rolling Stone, Matt Taibbi reports that Wall Street firms are now making millions in profits off of public pension funds nationwide. "Essentially it is a wealth transfer from teachers, cops and firemen to billionaire hedge funders," Taibbi says. "Pension funds are one of the last great, unguarded piles of money in this country and there are going to be all sort of operators that are trying to get their hands on that money."

CONTINUED: http://www.democracynow.org/2013/9/26/matt_taibbi_on_how_wall_street

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[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

the numbers have gotten away from us

[-] -2 points by RobertHod (1) 1 year ago

History does not deal with the period leading up to his presidency. I would write more, but the browser on my phone is getting pinged and crashing. Someone is turning the boards edit function off for my IP.

[-] -1 points by RobertHod (1) 1 year ago

Good point about banks, Hamilton & Rothchild. Again, I wonder what role secrecy had in creating invisible alliance.

[-] 0 points by Kavatz (464) from Edmonton, AB 1 year ago

Is that what that is. Happens to me sometimes, so annoying!

[-] -1 points by RobertHod (1) 1 year ago

Web 2.0 has a hidden weapon against us. They said it was for marketing. The mods can see us type, like chat. If they don't like what we are going to post, oops - technical problem.

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[-] -2 points by RobertHod (1) 1 year ago

The forum does that for me. All one has to do is post alternative politics that compete with the ows agenda.

Also you can see the text appearing in your post as you edit.

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

that is done with javascript on your device

It does not indicate an exchange with the server of this site

[-] -2 points by RobertHod (1) 1 year ago

Yep, web 2.0 triggered to action on your machine by the server, but it shows elsewhere too.

[-] -2 points by yodavision (3) 1 year ago

Yes, then a disapproving mod initiates a server action, poof, your post is gone or shadowed into you and yours private nothingness.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

What is it exactly, that you consider "alternative politics", and what does it have to do with text appearing in your post as you edit that post?

[-] -1 points by RobertHod (1) 1 year ago

I've explained this moderator.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Where?

I'm not seeing it anywhere at all.

[-] -1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

fine, just ignore my requests

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Well, OK, as long as you don't make any.

It's Mr. HOd that seems to be having an issue.

[-] -3 points by Kavatz (464) from Edmonton, AB 1 year ago

You mean history starting around 1913, or the colonization of America a few hundred short years before?

[-] -2 points by RobertHod (1) 1 year ago

1911, requisites for an Article V convention met, congress ignores, with their oath, the law and the constitution.

1912, the titanic goes down with 40 of the wealthiest Americans against leaving the gold standard.

Then the fed reserve in 1913.

Then WWI

Then 1919, women get the vote.

Then prohibition.

Then the stock crash.

Then FDR.

[-] 0 points by Kavatz (464) from Edmonton, AB 1 year ago

FDR did just enough to recover. Not enough.

[-] -1 points by RobertHod (1) 1 year ago

There were wars planned and the elite needed the people's confidence. FDR helped them, satiated them, and the elite continued with the agenda.

[-] 0 points by Kavatz (464) from Edmonton, AB 1 year ago

The communist, socialist and union parties were about to bring capitalism down. He satiated them just enough. Correct.

[-] -1 points by RobertHod (1) 1 year ago

Okay, that makes sense. Sadly, it appears the elite may need a reason to do something right, even half right.

Then again, the three could all be the same basic group. Using one another to justify conflict, fear and control. Labels & concepts used to divide.

As I've said, with secrecy it does not matter which system is in control. That could easily include all three as natural divisions of humans and the methods they choose to govern themselves, or think they choose.

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[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

so infrastructure projects would be a good way to deal wit unemployment ?

Grateful Dead - China Doll

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[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

i thought the song was about a man that got shot

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[-] -1 points by Kavatz (464) from Edmonton, AB 1 year ago

You are a Fukien lunatic and I was bored of your shit long ago. Can't even stand to read your posts, and couldn't be paid to revisit your website. How can you commit social suicide so many times and live?

[-] -2 points by RobertHod (1) 1 year ago

All or nothing thinking does not work. But your point about bush is correct, however, you promote secrecy with your post.

You are exposed.

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[-] -2 points by RobertHod (1) 1 year ago

You support secrecy with your juvenile attempt at ridicule in this instance.

[+] -5 points by MyBrothersKeeper (-36) 1 year ago

I think both are going to be required. It's sad but the way our government has spent money for a few decades now has been wasteful and the country now needs an overhaul, both in infrastructure and restructuring. Our government, aside from getting up a bunch of websites, has gotten really far behind on the use of existing technologies and bringing all of that up to speed is going to take more money.

[-] -2 points by OccupyMindz (5) 1 year ago

This train wreck doesnt have the brakes to stop

[-] -3 points by MyBrothersKeeper (-36) 1 year ago

I kind of agree.

[-] -2 points by OccupyMindz (5) 1 year ago

Despotism is a one way bullet train :)

[-] -2 points by MyBrothersKeeper (-36) 1 year ago

I really miss the complicated, information packed and thoughtful conversations this site used to host. I learned a lot the first 6 months this place was up.

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[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

I still like the news articles

[-] -3 points by Kavatz (464) from Edmonton, AB 1 year ago

Taxation is complimentary to the solution but without the real solution, Workplace Democracy and outlawing of elite owners/directors, outlawing of shareholders?... the implementation of responsible capitalism... there is no hope.