Forum Post: Why don’t we turn America into a corporation?
Posted 12 years ago on Feb. 22, 2012, 7:06 a.m. EST by factsrfun
(8310)
from Phoenix, AZ
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
[-]1 points by 1sealyon (245) 18 hours ago
Why not ask this question another way.
50% of the people pay no Federal Income Tax. Why do the people that pay nothing have any say in how the tax money is spent?
We have a graduated tax rate why not a graduated ballot box? Everybody gets one vote, and then you get one more for every $1000 that you pay in taxes?
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From here:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/if-we-give-them-a-lower-tax-rate-dont-we-have-a-ri/
I thought I'd re-bump this in honnor og the Tom Perkins comments.
That is interesting.
http://www.politicususa.com/en/half-americans-taxes
Thanks for stopping by, first time I heard, "147 million Americans don't pay taxes" I knew what they meant, good to get one on record.
I love how the 1% tries to justify crap. Complete and total idiocy. Good to know who we are dealing with though. :D
anyone say, "The Art of War"
What about the The War of Art ? Some of us dream of a better world one where people aren't so ready to give up - that there is something to press on for... I don't think anyone really wants to be on welfare - I think that most people have a sense of pride and dignity and want to be seen as good and smart and hardworking. I think that corporations want 50 percent of Americans to give up and collect a government check because then they don't have to pay them and yet 50 percent people will still be able to purchase goods while the rest of us keep plugging along for something that doesn't exist and making them ever more profitable with legislated cash (or EBT) - the American dream is a bygone dream one that only exists for 1% of the population. Who is more stupid the people who keep plugging away for tricklings or those that give up and can actually eat and live life a little bit?
or, "The Prince"
even more on point..
Good read and I'll be saving that link.
The fundamental thought process behind the "47%" remark is reveled by this 1sealyon in this comment.
I see 1sealyon has come back to the site here's an oldie on his views.
Can I get two votes for my Dog. Dogs earn money and therefore the owner must claim this as income and pay taxes. So, if the owner, pays 2000 more in taxes for his dog earnings, he gets two more votes. Correct?
Isn't this silly? We're trying to get money out of politics and your proposing putting it ALL in. You want the 1% owning your A$$???
Am I missing something?
The Puzzler
maybe the quotes,
but you do get the gest of what this person was suggesting, don't know if all the righties want everyone to know how they really think, but people should know things I think
PS you're missing the quotes because I forgot to put them in, my bad
"50% of the people pay no Federal Income Tax" does not mean "50% of the people pay no taxes."
When a renter pays his landlord once a month, the renter pays the property tax. Easily $500 a year or more.
When a person buys gasoline he pays a tax. ($.65 a gallon in California)
When a person buys any taxable item he pays sales tax. (about 9-10% sales tax in California)
When a person buys a product or service, he pays a portion of the corporations income tax, retirement, vacations, bonuses, company cars, and health insurance. All of the business costs are paid by the customer, they are passed on down in the form of higher prices. The end user pays all of these luxuries he can only dream about.
Finally this person who supposedly does not earn enough to pay taxes, pays one more. His wages, instead of being enough to support his family with just the essentials of life, food, clothing, housing, education, health care, are not enough to cover all of them and some are painfully cut to make ends meet.
Now if anybody tells you who pays the highest tax, let them understand this simple truth. A rich man pays tax from the excess of his wealth, the poor man pays tax out of the essential part of his.
The whole premise of this thread is so flawed. Once the math is done it can be understood that the proposal would be a death blow to income equality. The rich would undoubtedly have all the power. That's really what's proposed here.
The Puzzler
Damn I like you jr, I think we disagree a bit about voting, but you got good game, and at least we have common ground here.
rockon brother, keep telling the truth...
or should I say you go girl, what? what do mean all that stuff is older than me, shut up...let me think...
What could more clearly reveal their absolute hatred of democracy? It's completely self-revelatory. But they love to wrap themselves in that falg. That's why the true patriots, most of them, have been forced to the margins of society since WWII. Becuase these guys sold Americans a load of bullshit and they bought it.
They feel that the money they inherent is all that counts, if the people say but we inherited democracy and we want to use that to help us live just like you use your money, they want to make us feel guilty.
It’s “mob rule”.
Bullshit, what was paid for with blood is fairly paid for.
We own this country, time we told them that!
Bravo! I have two direct ancestors that fought for the Colonies in the Revolutionary War, and all my life they've telling me that I wasn't patriotic! Well, up theirs!
Here's to Thomas Jefferson!!!
Me too, one came over from Scotland the other born sometime between 1740 and 1760 here.
Mine father and son, Virginia, family arrived 1650.
That's early, same here father/son Mosses came over before 1740 date uncertain and William born here the first of the line so to speak, but you got me by a hunder years, ;).
My great....father was buried about 100 yards from the house I grew up in around 1870, he settled the valley there.
Considering that is exactly what the USSR was, one big corporation with one board, the Politburo, I do not think this is a very good idea.
How about having a society in which all 300 million of us have a say in how we run our lives, locally, internationally, economically, politically, culturally, instead of relying on boards of directors, politburos and leaders, who seemingly do nothing more than take our freedoms and our money for their gain?
How about we all get our asses out to the GA's across the world and start building this new society?
I think you make a good point the USSR was indeed ran like a corporation, make you wonder what the conservatives really thing about the USSR considering how much they love corporations.
The conservatives loved the USSR. This is why all the banks in the Western world built the USSR.
Anthony Sutton's seminal work, "Western Technology and Soviet Economic Development," links the Western Establishment to the building of the USSR's infrastructure and economy. Also, one quick point, the Koch brothers. There father made the family fortune building the energy infrastructure of the USSR. It is ironic, or maybe not, that the founder of the John Birch Society is directly responsibly for the construction of Stalin's energy system.
Sutton was a conservative, but his three volume set got him fired from Stanford's Hover Institute. I consider Sutton a "real" honest conservative like Ron Paul. This is too much for the Establishment to handle. As soon as Sutton pointed out, after WWII, that the wealthiest banks in America were directly involved in the construction of the USSR, he was canned. It was known in private circle, but you were not suppose to say it publicly.
But we can see in the world today that systems of control, elite system, like in China and the US, may publicly compete, but at a base level they support each other in retention of power.
Thank you for this informative comment.
It makes one wonder, Was 1984 fact or fiction?
I don't know enough about sutton to forward an answer other than he sounds like a neoconservative, but ron paul is definitely NOT a conservative, for he even admits he is a libertarian.
Libertarians, do not wish to conserve the system, but wants the government to wither away. Libertarians don't want to be bothered by Ideas like morality or ethics, they believe that men should be free to enslave their fellow man.
Listen to Ron Paul, then listen to a real conservative like Teddy roosevelt, and you will see they have nothing in common.
Exactly! Corporations are private tyrannies
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqlTyAMVDUk
One big one would be totalitarianism.
Yes and no.
If you have a corporation required to produce just for private shareholders, yes.
But no if the corporation is owned and run by workers, and linked to the needs of the community.
A corporation can be whatever we the people want if we control how the wealth it distributes is controlled by the people.
In both the Socialist and Capitalistic Markets systems of the 20th Century, I would argue the workers got the short end of the stick. Both systems provided some benefits, but the deficits of both systems for the workers meant we got a less than we produced and deserved from the profits. Not to mention the failure of competitive systems as opposed to cooperative systems of economics. But that is another topic.
Sure, but I think youre splitting hairs a little. Corporations in the sense that I was talking about (as well as Chomsky) is of course institutions run like tyrannies, not egalitarian co-ops.
"In both the Socialist and Capitalistic Markets systems of the 20th Century, I would argue the workers got the short end of the stick"
Absolutley. All concentration of power, whether its consentrated in a stalinist dictatorship(which is pretty far from what was originally called "socialsim" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4Tq4VE8eHQ) or concentration of private power. That´s why we need to work for Libertarian socialism:
http://struggleforfreedom.blogg.no/1320873951_the_society_we_should.html
http://struggleforfreedom.blogg.no/1317735903_chomsky_explains_libe.html
I would assume that they do pay employment taxes.They would pay sales taxes.Taxes on gas.taxes on car registration. social security taxes.If they own property Bingo another tax.Like to drink and smoke going to get hit.Not paying federal income tax not a big deal.Every grown person pays taxes unless you are a true hermit.
To me it is the underlying concept that they are presenting every time they make this cliam, it's implied that if you are not paying the bills you should have no say. Now who has and who hasn't "paid the bill" is a matter of debate, I contend that blood paid for this country and the money people have in the bank is just a byproduct, so we own this country, the rich are just renting it, and it's time to raise the rent!
OK if you followed all that you get a gold star, sorry for rambbleing.
It is time to evict.
Maybe, but I like to think I am compassionate, so I don't mind if they stay, as long as they are willing to carry their wieght, no living off granddads good luck.
Only will carry there weight if forced and than they will have to be babysat.Best to solve the problem so future generations can live in peace.
You're right, better those trust funds go to pay the debt, then there will be money for real investors to work with.
99% inheratance tax, suounds right to me.
I would agree that a financial aristocracy is not a good thing.I would also think that the inharitance tax should start at a certain point to prevent such a class in the future.
ok so I went a little high, sorry, I think we found common ground,
If we lived in an honest nation everyone would earn enough money that they could afford to pay taxes. You need those pennies from the McDonald's employee's paycheck for what, to pay for Dick Cheney's heart transplant and secret service protection for life? There are real problems, but you'd rather ignore those and blame the weak and underprivileged. You're an idiot.
you might want to look more carefully at the post, but hey made me laugh, check me out here:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/search/?q=user%3Afactsrfun
To get a better view. welcome to the forum, a lot of good people here:).
I guess I don't understand why you copied and pasted this comment and posted it. Anyone who blames the problems in this country on the people who are paid so little for their work that it would literally take food off their table if they also had to pay taxes is a heartless douche with ulterior motives. What was your point in posting this?
I want to allow others to see what many on the right truly believe but rarely say, they think that those who pay the taxes should have all the say, they give no credit in other words to those that gave their blood, not really, in spite of how they talk, but few have made that leap I do admit.
It already is
Maybe from one point of view, but I do feel this is one of the more important points to understand, there really are many people who feel deeply that those who pay the bills should have the say, many of us do this in our own homes, many feel that those who spend the most time in the park should have the most say because they "paid" for it, understanding where everyone is coming from is important, now me I like to let ideals stand on their own, let the idea rise or fall on it's merits I say.
WOW I had forgot about this one!!
WOW, so complete the plutocracy eh?
Always knew libertarians/ neoconservatives hated democracy.
Couldn't believe one them out and out said it.
Your lack of understanding on taxes in teh society probably means you fall for media tricks really easy.
and are hence part of the problem.
Wow!! You are really good at judging, you got all that from me reposting a conservative comment? Hey I got a question for you, how did a paid off troll like you get your score count so high?
Why not a corporation for the 99%? The 99% Inc. We could use a guy Fawkes mask as our logo feces. Only I want to paint it half blue the way mel Gibson did in braveheart before going to do battle with the Brits. Our slogan..... "Populus coniunctus numquam vincetur"I.e. "The people, united, will never be defeated"
Good point, another thing, why do they get to keep all the money they inherent, but I don’t get to keep my democracy?
Guy Fawkes was a TERRORIST!! Do NOT buy those stupid masks unless you want to bomb an abortian clinic.
The return of the Kings is exactly what these guys want (1%), and I'll flip my klit and they can this old scott's A** before I'll bow to them.
Or, why don't we turn corporations into America? What does America's Ceo earn? What is the bonus?
Ok, it breaks down when we get to boards of directors because they both work for pension fund managers and other big financial interests. But both are interesting ideas.
This almost sounds like a joke it's so absurd, turning the country into a corporation, but I think a lot of our representatives really do think they should listen more to the big tax payers, I think it happens at all levels of government and is at the core of why we don't have a responsive democracy. Your questions raise some good issues about if we continue on this corporate path.
It is a good discipline to apply to ideas you think are good and bad. Throw a few assumptions that might seem absurd or unlikely and you may find It is what leads to the discovery that the emperor has no clothes. Can you imaging whet the Greeks, looking at the US GOP primary candidates babel must be saying about the US? "They have to be insane and they are criticizing us for not taking our financial problems seriously?"
Interesting that there is an article today about Strauss-Kahn and his friends cavorting naked. The almost emperor having no clothes.
I'm sure I'll come across it. I think it was the daily Kos, that post this but I can't find it yey will post here when I do, but there a graphical repersention of what "we" look like to "them", tiny ants, next to full grow people trying to get the attention of elected officals.
Here is an answer to that, from Elizabeth Warren:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHFHznu-N-M
Thanks for the link and for stopping by.
money out of politics is the only way good policy for the general populace will be made. this idea is the exact opposite.
Mind you this is a quote from what was said to me, please see the link for my post.
Hmmm. Let me think. NO! Because a country is made up of humanity and a corporation is made up of employees. Don't mix up the two and remember a little thing known as political philosophy
My post but not my words, just thought it would be useful to know how these guys think, not that we don't.
I didn't think you believed that, factsrfun, and my directive wasn't really directed at you. LOL!
opps. I get mess up on the line sometmes, I see him up there now, it is a little wierd just cutting and pasting someelse's words but they were so perfect I couldn't believe I got one of them to actually say it.
There is no political solution to a cultural problem...
wow it's like zen only stupid
^point proven
If we're done then, you should like these authors too: 1sealyon
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"50% of the people pay no Federal Income Tax. Why do the people that pay nothing have any say in how the tax money is spent?" very good point!
I remember from history that's exactly what people were fighting for "one man one vote" wait a minute that can't be it.
one Federal taxpayer one vote? - great!
OK but we only count Social Security tax and we apply the "Price is Right" Rule, so if you pay it off you don't get to vote.
why would you do that? Soc Sec is money you get back when you get old or become disabled. we are talking about the federal income tax that 47% dont pay at all. why should they get to decide the rate if they aren't contributing to the federal income tax?
Oh it goes into a bank account does it?
And we don't and have never used it as an offset for the debt when reporting to the public?
If you are going to steal you must pay a penalty, those who have been paying less, by taking that money and reporting to the public in such a way as to support their theft, lower tax rates for the rich sold to the public as only creating a really bad debt when it fact they were creating a ridiculously huge debt (when the debt to future retirees came to be due), and what is their answer, don't pay the debt, call it "entitlement" and make people feel bad about demanding what they are owned.
Well I have been watching this game since Reagan put it in place and I do not feel bad about demanding that the debt be paid. Yes it will cost those who have been stealing for decades a lot of money
your government is stealing from you to pay for their out of control spending. then they do pay you (so far) when you get old. Sounds like you are making a case for abolishing Soc Sec - congrats! you are starting to see the light !
Every time they cut a tax and borrow a buck, that's exactly right, glad you're getting it too.
cutting taxes has not reduce revenue. spending has gone up. in fact revenue doubled on cap gains when they slashed the rate. so is your goal to raise revenue or punish the rich?
One goal is to keep anyone from becoming so wealthy that they threaten the democracy, that's the first and most important reason for very high taxes as people become very wealthy.
Really a silver lining is that it helps to fund the government and gives them the opportunity to give back a tiny bit to the country that has given them so much.
Win, win see?
and doesn't more government power threaten democracy? hahaha! Win Win ! are you kidding? If people voted out lifetime politicians we would effect change. we are lazy so we get what we deserve.
Government is the will of the people expressed through their democracy.
Really?
You didn't know that?
and they are the ones taking bribes and handing out favors to their friends, using legalized force on society usurping freedom. Forced government schools, forced retirement plan forced healthcare plan. Wait till they run out of money like Greece & Spain. You think the Ryan plan is Darwinian? wait till benefits get cut in 1/2 on a moments notice like In Greece right now. Riots in the street. Oh - I forgot - OWS likes that.
People are people all over the world
How do we fix this terrible curse?
By believing more lies of course!
Tax cuts balance budgets!
It makes the most perfect sense,
When in debt; cut back, on what’s coming in!
IBM and GM
Can provide those private jets,
After all they’re “we” knows how spend that money best
But if a government worker gets a birthday cake
By God we should burn him at the stake!
no - I agree - the Buffet plan is great! It will go a long way to solving our problems. 4.7Billion per year added revenue to the feds. That will totally help close the 1.7 Trillion dollar annual budget deficit & also go to reducing the 16Trillion dollars in debt. I am sure it will also help grow the economy by giving more to the feds. I just haven't figured out how raising taxes helps economic growth. Maybe you can walk me through it.
pay to vote, yeah that's how remembe it, wait a minute that's not it either
Because If you don't give us a voice, we practice civil disobedience, which is bad for business, and business seems to be the only thing that those who pay taxes care about.
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