Forum Post: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>why do we choose this monetary system???<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 30, 2011, 7:49 p.m. EST by mha
(142)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
anyone out there who could specify the benefits of our current monetary system?
why would we as a society create a nation, which has to borrow money from a private bank? money that bank doesn't even have!
i don't get it!
that gain out of the interests is privatized! it's pure SOCIALISM for the banks! we, the nation, allow them(!) to create the very money, on which they can charge US with interests? how does this benefit anyone except the banks???
please. there has to be someone out there with plausible answers.
It was originally designed for temporary use. It has grown into a interest eating machine. An entity so large that it will take another energy gestalt in similar size to topple it. The whole house of cards is based on the creation of money out of nothing with attached interest that has no real value at all. I'm not sure how much longer it can continue. More bail outs will keep it running but eventually like all things in nature that serve no real purpose will be phased out.
please. there has to be someone out there with plausible answers.
We don't choose this system, it chooses us. We have no say in US monetary policy, that is controlled by the Fed and the Treasury.
well, shouldn't that be a major topic than in this OWS-movement? people should get educated about the pro and cons of the monetary system. i mean, there have to be some benefits?!
Well, you've probably heard that people are advocating occupying the Fed? In San Francisco, the occupation started at the SF Fed.
Perhaps you've also heard about "identity politics"? That's where the country gets divided into "left and right" based on narrow social policy issues that are called "wedge issues". Basically the economic system steams on, while the small-minded and brainwashed public (fed by the lucrative mainstream media system) screams about gay marriage, immigration, and other largely irrelevant topics...
then i would suggest a big article in the OWS-Journal about the way our monetary-system works. we should get Joseph Stiglitz or some other expert to write this article. and alternatives have to be discussed publicly!
this is all new to me, and i'm sure there are a lot of people who would be happy to be educated about this topic!
mha, welcome to the real word. This is called the world order. May I suggest this link and the links inside. You must watch and will learn all the reasons.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/to-all-ows-supporters-worldwide-one-unified-demand
ok, fine. but what about reliable alternatives to the current monetary system?
Reliable alternative is debt-free money.
Debt-free money is not new in our history. Its was first introduced by the Colonial America for internal circulation, then officially by Abraham Lincoln ("greenbacks"):
"The Government should create, issue and circulate all the currency and credit needed to satisfy the spending power of the Government and the buying power of consumers. The privilege of creating and issuing money is not the supreme prerogative of Government, but it is the Government's greatest creative opportunity. By the adaption of these principals ... the taxpayers will be saved immense sums of interest. Money will cease to be master and become the servant of humanity." -- Abraham Lincoln, 16th US President
As A. Lincoln put it eloquently, money is only a unit of exchange for bartering, nothing more (it's a commodity). Therefore money creation and regulation must belong to elected sovereign governments as part of their duty to create, protect and uphold laws to protect the ways of lives of the People based upon established constitutional principals made by the People.
You MUST watch [R1] in previous link above to learn all. It's all there -- 3 hours non-fiction documentary.
ok. i will try to find the time (and energy) to watch that 3hours docu. i'm curious about it.
Also bartering
I prefer this one, less dry. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGk5ioEXlIM
any answers there??
There are no answers. It's the only way to borrow money without risking the gains of the system. No one in forced to borrow money. But if you do, you are expected to pay it back, otherwise you end up with the system we are in today.
Basically, the direction OWS is heading is more towards Hitler's Germany. He got ride of national debt, at the expense of the West economy. Eventually, his economy became a paper tiger too.
I remember hearing a story from Ivanka Trump once; they saw a homeless man on the street and saying "He's a few million dollars richer than I am right now."
I think it was in this video; http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/born-rich/
what do you mean by "otherwise you end up with the system we are in today."?
and how can it be, that our system is based on an endless economic growth to pay back the dept+interests, if the world resources are obviously limited? seriously? how is this supposed to work out? again: is the idea behind it all to play the game until it clashes because we have no alternative??
how is it, that there is nobody smart enough to find a reliable alternative?
Our system collapsed because people took out loans larger than they could afford. Had this been actual money from people's bank accounts (like you and me), than all of accounts would have dropped a %, based on how large the toxic loans were.
ok. so don't take a loan if you can't pay the interests+the loan itself back.
now the dept that our nations already have, can only be payed back, if the economy grows year by year, only to pay even the interests for the dept. how is this supposed to work out? there are only so much resources and that's it. how long will this system work? are we just waiting for the inevitable crash?
It needs to crash. The third world countries need their debts written off, especially the ones created by greedy dictators.
This explains it: http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/commanding-heights-battle-world-economy/
When we battle for equal rights, and justice in the third world, those expenses come off our shoulders. This isn't really an issue of American's getting poorer, it's that everyone else in the world is getting richer and competing for the same products.
The Government is trying to balance the life style of Americans. But over all, the world economy has grown, and continues to do so. Protesting on the street and telling the rich to take their money elsewhere isn't going to resolve the issue.
Create the world you want to live in, by developing your ideas into products and services. If you don't like the media, create your own: www.mowatsparty.ca
And voting.
i'm not satisfied with "it needs to crash". we are intelligent enough to send a satellite to land on a asteroid, but we're supposed to be too stupid to create a fair and renewable system? i won't believe that. there has to be a better solution than a crash. that's just like giving up to work on an intelligent plan.
It can't be fair.
America is trying to hang onto the current market system. They are dominant because they can print the money that everyone demands, and that makes them powerful. Their income isn't go up, because people in America started to take short cuts in economics, rather than actually making an income (like reducing spending, or selling debt and cutting costs, using smaller packaging instead of creating better products). I remember being in Nicaragua, and you could tell which products were American, because they'd have a "low price! 19.95!' with a catch at the bottom, instead of just disclosing the real price. The demand for fine print is going down.
People aren't born equal. If I start a business from scratch, it picks up and I make millions, than it's just natural that my children inherit that. If they blow it all away, than it's gone.
Some families just do well, some don't. I plan on buying land, and hanging onto it for my children. Some of my friends that go back generations, own farm land and camps that they've had in their history for years. One year, someone might just buy that land for a good profit.
I don't plan on using hard drugs, or going out and partying all night, spending all the money I made. I am not going to waste time protesting on the street, when I can get some extra hours in overtime replacing the people who didn't show up to work so they could protest.
The system is the best that it can possibly be with the current political environment. Free countries now have to deal financially with nations like China that control their currency. They have huge human rights abuse histories, as well as Russia.
The best thing to do is research, learn, talk to people. Get involved with the change you want to see. Work for the business you support, buy the products you support.
The markets, the television.. they don't control us. They just react to us. This whole Occupy movement is going to turn the corporations into all sorts of new platforms. I don't buy anything that has "Made in China" on the tag for that reason. I also bought a lot of organic groceries the other day, I was shocked at the size of the Organic area. It's grown since the Occupy started.
The best thing I can recommend is leaving the U.S. for awhile, visit some other countries and see how they function, and what the attitudes toward the U.S. are outside of America. Not everyone in the world lives off corporate fast-food, takes short cuts and spends their life in front of the TV.
Everyone wants the rich to pay more, which is fair. But what are you going to do for them? You can't just demand more and give nothing in return.
All answers are here:
The Money Masters - Full http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXt1cayx0hs
You must watch all to learn our history, our Founding Fathers and great men struggle with money changers. This struggle once won by A. Lincoln, but brought back in 1913. Now it's our job to eliminate it again.
Seen that too. It's an OK system, but remember that Gold and Silver are resources. There's no finite amount of Gold in the world, it could just start an environmentally destructive gold rush, tearing up forests and villages in search of it. Not to mention, gold has little practical value. It was used as a currency because of its rarity, but it's very common now.
That documentary is not suggesting gold standard. In fact, it's suggesting staying away from gold standard. Today, money is created without any rare mineral backup, it's called fiat money, i.e., paper money. Currently privately held central banks printing it and our govt.'s are borrowing it. This system is called debt-money system. It's brought back to US by "Federal Reserve Act, 1913".
Before they we have A. Lincoln's debt-free money system ("greenbacks").
Fed debt-money is also called "dollar bond". Govt. issued debt-free money is called "dollar bill". They are all fiat money. The difference is:
"If our nation can issue a dollar bond, it can issue a dollar bill. Both are promises to pay, but one promise fattens the usurers and the other helps the people." -- Thomas Edison, American inventor, scientist, and businessman.
Look like you skipped part of that documentary. It's a very "educational" non-fiction documentary. You must watch all.
[Removed]