Welcome login | signup
Language en es fr
OccupyForum

Forum Post: Why do all of you think money was just created yesterday?

Posted 10 months ago on Dec. 28, 2013, 7:28 a.m. EST by IndigoRed (83)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

The idea of money and exchange of goods for labor started from the beginning of civilization. What are you all complaining about? The most basic idea of life is to live it in comfort and while most of you seem to do so exceedingly well and enjoy things so blissfully, people like me realize that life is really an uphill struggle and that it's a dog-eat-dog world out there, and nothing is given to you on a silver platter for free.

We all have the same experiences and it has been that way since the beginning of civilization. Those of you who want to live life and enjoy it every waking moment can do so but don't complain when you've spent your modest savings buying the things you need to do so. I know that the real way to live is to build your life and that you should work more than you should relax and be happy. We have only one life and it is very short and there are no safe guards protecting your life in the wild that is the world so you best take every opportunity to safeguard your future every waking moment you have.

I would love that people are not greedy but time is money and this thought creates apathy towards others and their needs and desires. It is a spark that was started millennia ago and has only changed slightly over the past few centuries. What are you expecting?

65 Comments

65 Comments


Read the Rules
[-] 7 points by grapes (3261) 9 months ago

For the first time ever in human history, we have the capacity to provide prosperity for ALL. The old exponential growth model of capitalism and monetary manipulation used by the "elites" to sap power from all ants like you have become unsustainable and obsolete.

The arrival of the machines which can produce far more, better, faster, and cheaper than ANY ants like you means a rebalancing on the human side is desperately needed because the wealth inequality slams the door in the faces of the ants like you and I frankly abhor what that may lead to eventually. It is so unnecessary for us all to relive the horrors of the French, Russian, and Chinese Revolutions, especially when the means to avoid that is so obviously at hand. Do you think hording a storehouse full of grains while there are many just outside the storehouse starving can be a winning strategy to achieve a just, free, and peaceful society?

I may be accused of being an atheist but the spilling of innocent and unnecessary blood is abhorrent and disgusting and I hope that you will join me.

[-] 1 points by IndigoRed (83) 9 months ago

what are these means? We almost fell into a depression 5 years ago and that was when our economy appeared amazing and people were buying houses left and right. What does prosperity mean to you?

[-] 2 points by grapes (3261) 9 months ago

Prosperity means the freedom from wants to me and achieving the proper balance between my abilities and my needs and wants to enable a good life.

Human lifespan and abilities are finite but human wants can approach infinity. Bringing them into balance means understanding wants for what they truly are and if need be, as dictated by my abilities, reining them in or cutting them out. This is the ONLY way that any infinity can fit into the finite. As a child, I went through this phase of lusting after this particular toy airplane stuffed full of chocolates but lacking sufficient funds, I went back again and again to see it in the store while saving up my money for it. By the time I had saved enough money, I discovered that I no longer wanted it because the delayed gratification had blunted my desire and I found better usage for my money. Maybe you had a similar experience that delays calmed the lusts and passions.

A happy human life DOES require a certain basic level of material comforts. We are mostly NOT ascetics so enough to drink, eat, keep warm, cool, or clean, etc. are ALL worthwhile endeavors meriting our efforts. We must not forget though that "Man does not live by bread alone."

[-] 2 points by grapes (3261) 9 months ago

These means are information, knowledge, wisdom, the artist's eye and creative/playful spirit, the social smith's determination to anneal and reform, the potter's molding hands and the heat of the firing furnace, and the courage to take actions and start over from scratch again if need be.

We live in the "Information Age" in which information is widely available globally. Figuratively speaking, almost all who thirst for information can easily drink their fill and even drown themselves. The important item is critical thinking skill. Knowledge is similarly globally available nearly free of charge from universities and other institutions. Wisdom may well be the hardest to attain. We must distinguish carefully needs from wants and determine potential consequences before carrying out any actions. Social studies, especially History, or even Literature, allow us to explore temporal/causal linkages, social- and mind-space.

I saw urban revitalization time and again under the artists' "fermentation." Art can be both the most useless as well as the most treasured creations in our world. It is the meaning attached to Art that makes it so. Art is ideas and art is meanings. I long for the artist's eye and creative/playful spirit to provide us with vision. Although I found this artist's eye somewhat hard to find, our global communication and media allow instant dissemination of what it sees and articulates. The social smith's determination to anneal and reform and the potter's molding hands and the heat of the firing furnace are needed to create real but sub-fracturing pain to knead and mold our social structures and organizations. Lastly, without action nothing counts, so we must infuse ourselves with fervent belief in our vision and gain the courage to take actions and start over from scratch again if need be.

Things can go wrong even with our best intentions but taking risks defines what being human is since time immemorial. The best that we can do is to guide our mission with good wills and accept whatever comes of it without any reservations. Our ancestors went through restarts, reboots, and population bottlenecks before. As a species, we did it before and we can certainly do it again.

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by grapes (3261) 9 months ago

Why? Is it the grapes, Dionysus, quartz, amethyst, intoxication connection? I am fine aside from a little more fermentation over time. Good wines take time. If poorly controlled, vinegar comes out instead and that was purportedly what Jesus drank before his last breath on the cross.

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 9 months ago

No wonder he grimaced.

[-] 2 points by grapes (3261) 9 months ago

It was the utter sense of betrayal by the humans that brought on the final letting go of the mortal life. Jesus loved good wines. His first miracle was to turn water into wine so wedding guests could have their full. If Jesus hated wine, any wine there would have been turned into vinegar. The grimace came from the pain of vinegar on wounds and the ultimate sense of insult of having received bad wine.

[-] -3 points by Builder (4202) 9 months ago

He predicted the betrayal.

Even the timing of it, and whom would do it.

It's a long stretch to assume what he was thinking, while nailed to a cross.

[-] 2 points by grapes (3261) 9 months ago

Predicting the betrayal is different from accepting it. Jesus apparently transcended the very human response to the insult by forgiving and then letting spirit leave the mortal body.

It is not a long stretch to delve into human thinking after accepting Jesus being human as a premise. Human nature has not changed much in millenia. There lies the curse as well as the opportunity.

[-] 0 points by Builder (4202) 9 months ago

Point taken.

On the subject of the nails, most crucifixions were carried out by using rope to secure the arms and feet to the cross. There was always some conjecture re the nails being enough to support the weight of the human body, considering the fact that being crucified to death could take days, or weeks.

[-] 2 points by grapes (3261) 9 months ago

The ancient Romans were a most power-obsessed people. They loved to create public spectacles to arouse the sense of grandeur, absolute power, maganimity, lust for and satiety of blood, etc.

Crucifixions can fit into the public spectacle framework akin to our billboards. While ropes might have worked better, nails would provide the red blood far more satisfying to the Romans and intimidating to those who even comtemplated rebellion against Rome. The threat that Jesus presented to the power of Rome pointed to the nails as being more gruesome and intimidating, more suitable for mocking the Jews as well as the "King of the Jews." A thrust of the stout Roman short sword would have been quick but lacking in drama.

[-] -3 points by revolutionman (-106) from Kentland, IN 9 months ago

I think human nature, thought patterns, physiognomy, etc... changed drastically in the last thousands of years.

[-] 1 points by grapes (3261) 9 months ago

It is amazing that I could recognize remarkable caricatures of modern people in ancient myths, fairy tales, literature, plays, chronicles, etc. If they were given modern names and mannerism, I could even gasp out some real names in astonishment.

The curse is that we whirl around these vortices of greed, destruction, rebirth, decay, corruption, etc. again and again. The opportunity is that once we have realized that this is just a recurring bad dream, we can choose a different dream sequence.

[-] 0 points by patatochipboy (-1) from Jersey City, NJ 9 months ago

Do you realize the depth of the delusion? Not only do we have no solid evidence Jesus really existed - never mind performed miracles - or ever was on a cross - But now people try to do psychoanalysis not only on this mythical Jesus, but at a very specific time in his supposed life. It's similar to us discussing what Santa Claus is thinking as he goes down the chimney. Complete delusion. Completely in fantasy land.

Meanwhile, real problems need to be solved. Real children die of hunger. The environment needs help. Etc...

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 9 months ago

Tell your story walkin'.

The whole slap-dash flag-waving scenario relies upon this scam. Right the way up to the mafiosa, who are really running your show. So show some respect.

"Mobsters don't just 'use' religion, in order to increase consensus and complicity for their actions," said Dino, who bases her work on extensive interviews with former mafiosi and on their depositions at trials. By "adopting pseudo-religious rituals or sitting in the first rows of pews at masses and processions,” mobsters, "set themselves as models" for other people.

More importantly, she said, in doing so they “create a mechanism to grant themselves impunity from guilt” for their crimes. Mobsters, said Dino, believe to be “moved by higher motives. They say to themselves: 'We did what we did because we were acting in the name of God's justice, which is higher than the state's.'"

The perception is false, said Morosini, who reacted swiftly after the release of the footage, penning an open letter to the 'Ndrangheta mobsters.

"We had always thought that these meetings at holy shrines were folklore, but now we have had to re-think," he wrote, adding that the church “feels deeply sorry” for the mobsters for having transformed Polsi "from a place of faith into a place of lawlessness."

People's faith in the shrine, he wrote, “must be respected not laughed upon and humiliated.”

In an interview to GlobalPost, he said mobsters "did not live by Christian values, even if they showed off their devotion with an "obsequious behavior towards the church, such as kissing sacred images."

He added: “Faith has nothing to do with their activities and, as bishop, I invited them to convert and repent.”

[-] -1 points by patatochipboy (-1) from Jersey City, NJ 9 months ago

You know me, I don't believe in conspiracy theory nonsense. There's a lot of rich people. A lot of 1%ers. They all compete with each other. Google competes with Apple, and so on. We are talking about millions upon millions of business owners. The problem is not that they all conspire together to control the world and make us poor. If you think that, then you miss the real problem and that's a danger. Missing the real problem is really bad. The problem is capitalism. It doesn't matter who you put at the head of companies, the system makes it so they will do whatever it takes to make money. Yes, of course, a few people conspire here and there to try to get laws passed and so on. But, this is normal. There's people who break the law in all parts of society. The problem is simply the economic system we have in place. It is designed so that what matters is money. So, of course a lot of people will do whatever they can for money!

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 9 months ago

And your solution is?

How's about total nuclear devastation, and maybe a few survivors can start the process all over again?

The system has enabled criminality of the highest order. It does not matter that they wear Armani suits, and elect their own representatives. They are organised criminals.

What is your solution?

[-] -1 points by patatochipboy (-1) from Jersey City, NJ 9 months ago

My solution is to end capitalism and replace it with socialism. Then, if ever we reach a point where there is no more scarcity of goods, then we can head towards communism. It's simple.

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 9 months ago

Practicalities, sunshine.

"end capitalism" meaning just tell everyone to hand over their gambling chips and offshore bank accounts, and line up with the plebians?

[-] -1 points by patatochipboy (-1) from Jersey City, NJ 9 months ago

No, we can certainly end capitalism if enough people want. The problem is these lame conspiracy theories that make everyone believe the world is like a cartoon with some evil all powerful character that can't be vanquished. If people want socialism, they can have it. The minority cannot stop what the majority wants.

Socialism does exist to an extent in many of the world's countries. If Canada has socialized health care, then US can sure as hell afford to have it too.

What we need to do is educate correctly. No lame conspiracy theories and other BS. Explain what socialism is and how it could help us all using proper economic talk etc... We need smart people to do this. But, honestly, it's scary. Occupy should be supporting GMOs for example. It's not. It's caught up in this anti-GMO conspiracy theory. That's what scares me. Even the people who are supposed to be logical, rational, and good are not. Everyone is mixed up.

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 9 months ago

Socialising health care is a no-brainer.

The only developed nation that hasn't done it is the one still in the grips of the organised criminals.

Now, tell me what "lame conspiracy theories" are stopping people from believing that socialism is a good thing.

Forget your cartoon theories. We do live in the real world.

People get killed for suggesting that shit is happening. Do I need to name some names?

[Removed]

[-] -1 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 9 months ago

You think it was the bad wine that made him grimace? I always thought it was the bad singing. ;-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2Wx230gYJw

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 9 months ago

Or the sword in the ribs?

The nails in the feet and hands would have been a bit numb by that stage.

[-] -2 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 9 months ago

Hey, so what do you think about this recent claim that Jesus was an invention of the Romans?

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 9 months ago

Anything goes, I guess.

Martyrs are a dime a dozen.

Despite the deep-seated guilt-trips installed in my psyche, I'm quite capable of some santa-worshipping, if it leads to some wild kinky sex.

[-] -2 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 9 months ago

You're a unique individual, B.

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 9 months ago

It's a crazy time in our lives, Gno.

I'm feeling my mortality.

[-] -2 points by patatochipboy (-1) from Jersey City, NJ 9 months ago

Feeling your mortality is feeling your vitality.

Death awakens your life.

[-] -2 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 9 months ago

That usually happens when we lose someone very close. I started feeling mine about five years ago and quite frankly, I'm not liking it.

And crazy times indeed. I find it just a wee bit interesting to be witness to the extinction of the human race.

On a slightly more upbeat note, I just reconnected with my daughter after a "brief hiatus" and hopefully I'll be able to see my two grandsons soon, for the first time. What a world they'll be growing up in.

[-] 1 points by grapes (3261) 9 months ago

I asked the question of why I am living in this oil/war age. The answer is that I am no one special so any random choice would have landed me in this age with high probability when the population reaches a very high level. It is also true that just before a major collapse of the population it reaches a new peak, by definition. Most of the population tend to witness the major collapse because if it does not collapse, the population goes higher letting more people witness the Event.

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 9 months ago

Had a great afternoon with my erstwhile son just yesterday.

He actually asked me to drop in "anytime", which is a great leap forward for us.

Sounds like you and I are on a similar J-curve at the mo.

[-] -1 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 9 months ago

Interesting coincidence, B. My daughter inextricably dropped out of my life shortly before her first boy was born, then out of the blue, called me the Thursday before Christmas saying she "wanted to catch up."

You and I are around the same age, too, I believe. A tad north of fifty.

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 9 months ago

Yep, not much north here.

Born in the year of the cat.

[-] 0 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 9 months ago

Interesting bit of trivia about the "Year of the Cat:"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_(zodiac)

Year of the Dog, myself. Hmmm, cat? Dog? Synchronicity?

[-] -3 points by patatochipboy (-1) from Jersey City, NJ 9 months ago

That's a funny pleonasm - unique individual. It makes me think, what would be a person that is not unique? He wouldn't be an individual. How could we call him? A commoner, or, for fun, let's create a neologism, an ordinarian?

[-] -2 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 9 months ago

"Unique individual." Hmmm, I never thought about it like that.

And "ordinarian" is a damn good neologism, T. I think it should be an actual word.

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 9 months ago

An ordinarian, as opposed to a complicarian?

I tried to be a rastafarian, but I just can't handle being stoned all day.

[-] -2 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 9 months ago

Heheh.

Damn, I wish I could come up with a clever response. Mind's . . . getting . . . foggy. Need . . . sleep.

[Removed]

[-] -3 points by patatochipboy (-1) from Jersey City, NJ 9 months ago

It reads like a conspiracy theory narrative more so than proper historical analysis. That alone renders the claim uninteresting. It's easy to take some coincidences and pretend they mean something when they don't necessarily. Proper research needs to find causation for correlation to mean something. Numerologists do the same thing. They just find coincidences with numbers and pretend meaning is there.

This line by our researcher is important:

... locations of Jesus ministry are more or less the same as the sequence of events and locations of the military campaign of (Emperor) Titus Flavius as described by Josephus

More or less is very important here. It essentially means nothing. He doesn't tell us with any form of precision how they match up. That alone is indicative of bad research methodology and conspiracy theory like in its narrative form. Secondly, even if they matched up 100% he would have to show real causation for that correlation to mean anything. I'm sure Jesus's movements match up with the movements of many many people. Similarly, you could find someone in the world today who has followed where you have been. Does that mean anything? Most likely not, unless it's your wife.

[-] -1 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 9 months ago

Well, at least you did take the time to actually read an article about it rather than just dismiss it out of hand. Not being well-versed in the Bible by any stretch I'm not qualified to say either way. I do find the theory mildly interesting but I'm not interested in religion enough to pursue it.

I would point out, though, that I don't believe there's definitive proof that Jesus actually existed at all.

What I'd really like you to do would be to repost your comment to me on your "Two must-read articles on GMO's." I was very curious as to what your reply was but the forum "censor" deleted it before I had the chance to read it. All I heard was you mentioned Seralini. You didn't happen to keep a copy of it, did you?

[-] -3 points by patatochipboy (-1) from Jersey City, NJ 9 months ago

I always read articles gnomunny. It doesn't take long though to see the difference between proper research methodology and conspiracy theory type work. In this particular case, a reading of the Bible is not important. The author of this research bases his claims entirely on his idea that someone else had roughly similar movements throughout his life. Really, not much to go on at all. It's also important to realize people back then didn't travel much. Statistically, many people would have had roughly similar movements than Jesus. I don't think it's significant at all to be making large claims like that. Did Jesus exist, I don't know, but this type of research isn't the way we will find out. It's junk historical work.

As for the GMO thing. I did write a long reply. I went into details and gave many links. It was censored by shooz. It kind of becomes annoying and I don't have time to do it all again only to be censored once more. In essence, yes there is an anti-GMO conspiracy theory. It's very similar to the anti-vaxers conspiracy theory in many ways.

Here's a link to some 600 research papers in peer reviewed journals showing GMO are safe for consumption.

http://gmopundit.blogspot.ca/p/450-published-safety-assessments.html

Here's another article:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jonentine/2013/10/14/2000-reasons-why-gmos-are-safe-to-eat-and-environmentally-sustainable/

Like the anti-vaxers who rest their case on the research of a sole Doctor, Dr. Wakefield, who has been discredited by the scientific community at large, the anti-GMO crowd also base themselves on the works of a few researchers who have been discredited. Not only that, but these researchers aren't from universities, but are paid by anti-GMO outlets. It's plain old cognitive bias to put so much weight on a little bit of research that has been discredited, but then ignore the vast amounts of research that is being accepted by the scientific community. It's dangerous type of thinking. Similar to Global Warming Deniers. We live in a time when conspiracy theories are destroying logical thought.

[-] -1 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 9 months ago

Thanks for the links, but it'll take some time to post a decent reply. I will say this, though. The anti-GMO crowd do not base their opinions on "a few scientists who have been discredited." There are literally hundreds, possibly over a thousand, scientists worldwide that aren't convinced GM food is safe. There is NO consensus yet and anything you read that claims there is, is a biased source.

You also have to realize that it's not just a matter of whether the food is safe. The whole GM controversy includes the health effects of Glyphosate and other pesticides, the long-term sustainability of industrial monoculture and its detrimental effects on the environment and climate change, the monopolizing of the world's food, etc. The effects of BT on the human gut microbiome is only just now being studied.

I've copy-pasted this comment of yours just in case it gets pulled again. I'll have a better reply at a later time. It's too late at night to think too clearly, and I'd like to check out your first link in-depth. The Forbes article, not so much. It's MSM, after all. Not an unbiased source.

[-] -2 points by patatochipboy (-1) from Jersey City, NJ 9 months ago

Let's not mix things up. I'm talking about a conspiracy against GMOs only. I agree that capitalism and big business is not good. But that's not only for GMOs, it's for many many things. GMOs should be open-sourced and the technology and data surrounding it should be owned by the people (governments).

I should have been more precise. There might be hundreds or even thousands of scientists against GMOs (I believe this is entirely wrong), but it doesn't matter. What matters are actual peer reviewed papers that show evidence. There are hundreds of those that show GMOs are safe, and only a handful that show they are harmful. And, that handful have all shown to be bad research. There is no controversy what so ever in terms of the science. None.

[-] -2 points by AlwaysIntoSomething (42) 9 months ago

"Do you think hording a storehouse full of grains while there are many just outside the storehouse starving can be a winning strategy to achieve a just, free, and peaceful society?"

You just have to convince the population that you, the great horder of grain, are actually doing it because it is in their best interest, and if they decide to remove you from power, the other guy is much worse and you will still have no grain.

And that is really the key to keeping the grain. Create the arguments about things other than the grain, distribute through your media connections, and watch as the peasants are now worried about what a hick on tv said, as opposed to their money being used for the trillion dollar war machine.

Simple. Effective. Apparently not changing anytime soon.

[-] 4 points by grapes (3261) 9 months ago

I hear you - the humongous budgets of humanity allocated to the killings, destruction of properties, and fumigation of other human beings are absurd and repugnant. I think JFK came close to putting the proper words to his mouth after we all came to the edge of the Abyss and faced firsthand the horrendous stupidity of us all. I am glad though that at the last minutes, there were some who just would not succumb to frustrations and the urge for revenge to carry out the horrendous acts.

I think that we need to reduce tensions all around the world to prepare a fertile bed of soil for disarmament. The formation of the EU can be a great guide. Europe has transcended much of its rancorous war-torn past so it might just be possible that we could build something similar on a regional scale. Humanity may need to take to its hearts that we are all truly brothers and sisters, all part of this insignificant minuscule abode of life we miscalled Earth (a more appropriate name would be Water).

There were transitions before that hollowed out the merchant shipping, textile and clothing industries, blue collar and well-paid automobile and consumer electronics manufacturing jobs, and even many high-tech jobs through H1B visas. We need to be careful that we do not create more Greece-like problems in our quest for improving economic ties.

[-] 3 points by grapes (3261) 9 months ago

Anyone with the ability to destroy the economy warrants being watched carefully. For the U.S., the Federal Reserve which is actually neither federal nor reserve, is such an entity. Other countries have their own so-called demigods and history is replete with examples where Greek tragedies strike the countries confusing them with the real Rainmaker. It is not my diversionary tactic at play here. It is my way of pointing out to people where the event horizon for our economy is located, hopefully leaving them with the perceptive eyes to see distorted images foreboding potential catastrophes. "Never fight the fed!" is a maxim to adhere to gain wealth in our current economic system. There is something really rotten about our system where the savers, especially the elderly having worked hard all of their lives, have their wealth systematically stolen. In there, I also include the Chinese ants and the pension plan holders.

[-] 1 points by grapes (3261) 9 months ago

The fact is that under the present system, the "hording of grains" can be done entirely without much help from the ants which are so busy toiling that they have no time to notice how their stash is being overtaken by molds. As I have said before - me, being grapes, having become un-un-i-formed and moldy - have the duty to shine light on the problem that I see coming. I have certainly provided good information to whoever will listen - you could have grown well off if you had listened and acted on the gift-toss opportunity that I had tipped off.

I seek no more power. My capital is my intellect and the means to turn that into riches sufficient for my needs requires very little involvement from other people. That is the most portable wealth of all. Losing all wealth had happened to my ancestors but we always suceeded in rebuilding, partly because of the goodwill built up while we were better off. Paraphrasing Jesus, stash thy treasures (grains) in Heaven where no moths will eat of it. I may not believe the entirety of the Bible but Jesus spoke great truths and his being the divine Son of God from a virgin birth or otherwise is totally irrelevant to His Truth. I believe that the Holy Spirit sent to us as requested by Jesus is within us, physically. Wherever two or more of us gather in His Name, there He will be because He is information conveyed through communication. The kingdom of God IS within us.

[-] 1 points by windyacres (1002) 9 months ago

God is Love

[-] 2 points by grapes (3261) 9 months ago

Love takes two or more. Take a hand, give a hand, or lend a hand, please.

[-] -3 points by revolutionman (-106) from Kentland, IN 9 months ago

God is an anthropomorphic delusion.

[-] 1 points by grapes (3261) 9 months ago

Yes, on one level and totally wrong on another level of abstraction. There are those of us who admire Science for its objectivity but happiness does not correlate well with scientific achievements but it can correlate, too. Science assigning properties to objects cannot handle really complex relations right now so we delve into metaphoric disciplines such as mythology and religions which can be interpreted as a form of protoscience.

Science is an automorphism of reality as mythology and religions can also be. Delusions of man have REAL effects and that was our grave error before, not recognizing that fact, hiding our ignorance in the complications of our minds/brains. All you need to see the REAL consequence of the fanaticism of man is to stare at the skyline of lower Manhattan, the huge holes still there, the horrid faces of the murdered in wars galore, the mountains of bleached bones and stacks of skulls, piles of twisted torsos died in pain, or the mutilated bodies smoked, skewered, and roasted with pictures of loved ones strewn in dirt. We surrounded the gory acts with beautiful words, religions, and myths. Aren't we human societies the really crazy ones? Do we not need a corrective mental surgery for them? Myths and religions as well as Science can help. The placebo effect is REAL enough for some ills to be useful if nothing better is available.

[+] -6 points by revolutionman (-106) from Kentland, IN 9 months ago

Myths and religions don't help at all. They only confuse and lead to delusions. Science is the only way to understand the world and ourselves. Science is poetry at its finest because it releases the full poetry of the universe. To look at the stars and truly understand where they are from is far more poetic than to ascribe myths to their creation. Religions are not only absolutely useless, they are dangerous.

[-] 3 points by flip (7071) 9 months ago

well aren't you the blowhard - I see you haven't changed much - still have the thai servants or did you move to some other dirt poor country and get them to call you massa. how many ids have you gone through now?

[Removed]

[-] 2 points by grapes (3261) 9 months ago

In some sense, myths and religions obstruct but in another sense they gave birth to modern science. Without the (now erroneous) belief in astrology, Tycho Brahe would have never had the chance to gather the empirical data that formed the foundation of astronomy and led to the Newtonian breakthrough. Newton himself endeavored in alchemy based on mythological beliefs but his way of varying the parameters of empirical experiments had its influence on science.

It is indeed far more poetic to be able to see through the scientific eye as well as through its linkages with the other disciplines such as myths and religions. Take amethyst for example, its purple color (and its Greek myth relating to the mind), its quartz composition, its including impurity atoms, its relation to silica, glass, and silicon chips' doping. When one can see the crystalline structure, the chemical composition, the overlapping electronic orbitals, the chemical bonds, the energy levels and bands, the band gap energy making it transparent to visible light, dopants introducing new energy levels creating colors, etc., it can be very satisfying but some will simply enjoy the beauty of the amethyst and feel loved and that can be equally satisfying. Some see the trees but others see the forest. They can all be satisfying views. Of course, some views require far more effort than others but we do not demand everyone to climb Everest and that is just fine.

[Removed]

[Removed]

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by Builder (4202) 9 months ago

Sounds like you've fallen for that conspiracy theory about the Universe.

Latest science suggests it's all a hologram.

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by grapes (3261) 10 months ago

Money-equivalent of 85 billion U.S. dollars a month has been and continues to be created out of thin air to inundate hopefully the housing and the bond markets. We think so because this amount WAS created just "yesterday." We are NOT the ONLY country doing quantitative easing (easier understood as legalized identical currency counterfeiting) so apparently it is recognized as a good thing elsewhere, too!

[Removed]

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 9 months ago

As per the OP: Because so many around here make the claim that the FED just printed it.

Try and keep up.

[-] 1 points by IndigoRed (83) 9 months ago

The FED printed all of the US bills that are circulating around today yes but the "idea" of money and exchanging labor, goods or services for objects of value (used to be gold, greenbacks and now bills) has existed through the ages and stood the test of time. What I have ascertained from all of you socialist protesters is that we have somehow reached a time where human labor is no longer necessary. Let me tell you this fact and I hope you all remember this for the rest of your lives: Human labor will always be necessary as long as we require food, shelter, and the basic necessities. Also, because we are now all aware of the advanced technologies of the day that require fuel and energy (like the electricity powering your computer so you may try to prove your point against mine), you can consider the labor to acquire those energies a permanent job for man as well.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 9 months ago

Where/what did you ascertain that from?

I for one, have been a dogged supporter of labor unions.

They just want to get paid for their labor.

Indeed, it's the bankers and CEOs that don't want to pay ANYONE, at the rate their labor deserves. It might affect their backriding profits, as it's they who are far overpaid for their own nominal labor efforts.

[-] 0 points by nazihunter (215) 10 months ago

Yes, I am totally in agreement with you. Just ignore everything bad that's going on. That's a sure way for things to get better. When the going gets tough, don't go anywhere. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. Throw the towel in. Just quit already.

[-] 1 points by IndigoRed (83) 9 months ago

what is going bad? The conflict in the middle east? Do you remember that all of the American people rallied behind the call for war against those who perpetrated the 9/11 terrorist attacks? The American people asked for what is occurring now in the middle east and the world today is the result. And like I said, time is money and I don't have time to be protesting when I'm trying to provide for myself and my family.

[-] 0 points by nazihunter (215) 9 months ago

I wouldn't say 'the American people.' Smarter people are offended by politicians, talking heads and the like using that term. It's as if they speak for everyone, or they have power over what 'American' constitutes. In a country divided as we are, just who are 'the American people?' So, take care of your family but,don't be afraid to make some new friends. You may need them.

[-] 1 points by IndigoRed (83) 9 months ago

those in control (government, corporations and the elite) think you the people as imbecilic cattle to control and manipulate. This will always be and always has been.