Forum Post: Who started OWS and who runs this web site?
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 25, 2011, 3:17 p.m. EST by Indepat
(924)
from Minneola, FL
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Does anyone have a clue who is leading this movement? Or at least who started it? Also, how d you get in contact with them?
No harm in Canadians getting the ball rolling. Someone had to motivate Americans to stand up to criminality, corruption and joblessness. While I am a decided Capitalist, I am also a shameless supporter of ending the Global I-Bank pyramid scheme, we call Globalism. If I have anarchists in Canada to thank for getting the ball rolling, than thanks a lot...erm.......eh. If I have George Soros or the Hollywood elite to thank, than thank you to Soros and the Hollywood elite. If a ham sandwich got the ball rolling....well, you get my point. [wink]
No harm in them starting it, who ever started it, but there is harm in no one on this end rising to the occasion and forming a leadership group and an official organization. Because without those to things you have nothing. I was just looking for the people who started it, because they are the ones that should lead it. But I guess that ain't going to happen.
The protest movement needs to get bigger, not to narrow its focus around a leader or a single demand. There is no need for a leader. There is only a need to grow the movement and to be as ambiguous as possible. This is a peaceful adaptation of the single cell concept. No country has ever achieved military victory over a leaderless single cell movement. This is the peace movement, but the same idea. Martin Luther King, articulated the dream of one man and he died for his dream. We articulate the dreams of millions, as independent individuals, as cells, if you will, peaceful, but as independent cells. Shall millions of us perish for challenging the status quo? The politicians and the business community gets paid to solve problems. Let them articulate a solution that would get us to stop protesting.
I agree that the movement needs to grow, but I disagree that it will do that without a single demand (at most a few). Many people I have talked to are hesitant to support OWS because they don't know what they are supporting. What OWS needs is one simple demand - PROHIBIT PRIVATE SPENDING ON PUBLIC CAMPAIGNS - its the only way that we can reclaim our democracy. And, if this did happen, it would put in place the framework to fulfill the other demands that OWSers (myself included) claim are so popular. check out this site www.getmoneyout.com address the cause, not the symptoms
If you want only one demand, which is impossible i believe, maybe you should think about making it illegal to run for a second term of the presidency and other high function officials. you could extend it a year or two but only allow one term. How much bs would be slashed with just that ? Actually, nope, you might be right. it might not be enough without prohibiting spending.
Get the money out? Hmm, I was kind of hoping to come up with a plan, that will create high paying careers, in the USA, grow our economy and satisfy the special interests of the Democratic Party. I was hoping to get the special interest money in support of our movement; through a mutually beneficial settlement. That will be my focus, but there is no harm in experiementation.
I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic or not. The democratic party is just a bought as the republican party. If you think you can take money without being beholden to your donor and their ulterior motives, go for it. Besides, how many special interests are going to support a movement that has no defined goal/target/demand.
But really, I'd like to see high paying careers in the USA too, but dealing with the democratic party is not going to change anything...that I can promise you.
I am beholding to the interests of teachers, skilled workers and immigrant groups. As an MBA, I am getting squeezed by companies; making money off of efficiencies and outsourcing. If I am going to have the lifestyle I want, teachers, skilled workers and immigrant rights groups must get what they want. These groups have very highly defined interests and needs; but they will all stand to benefit from high paying careers, diversified commercial enerprise development and population growth. A mass protest movement targeting corruption, criminality and the need for high paying careers is as defined as it needs to be.
We just need to set the stage, with a growing mass protest movement. The politicians, special interest groups and business leaders will deliver on the details. You really think that the Democrats are not going to go our way? [Shocked] Oh, I think that when one is going Hells way, one can count on the very Devil to get things done. [...throws Devil hand in the air and sticks tongue out, with Ozzy tune in background] At the end of the day, we are not standing in the way of the vast majority of Democrat special interest groups, we are demanding things that will benefit them. [smile]
Perhaps we just disagree on this part of the movement. I don't feel any political efficacy in this country. I think improving the way our democracy functions offers a clear and agreeable solution that enables further changes to come more, well, democratically. I guess I just see your idea as a band aid on a severed arm. Finally, what is more american than "democracy"? That is something i believe could really gain broad support.
Well, we are a Republic. Consider, this Nation was not originally created for all of the White male landowners. This Nation was created for the benefit of the White male landowners, with the right to vote. Most White male landowners actually had no participation in Government or right to vote, being loyalist to the British or other foreign powers. Today, everyone with the right to vote, should be counted in Government. This was the intention of our founders. To have a Republic, representative of the persons with the right to vote.
I agree with most of that...i tend to misuse the word democracy when I should be using republic. Nevertheless, make participation meaningful and accessible (on both the candidate's and voter's side) and I don't doubt that what you advocate would be realized.
wrong, no movement ever achieved a single thing without leadership and organization. Please show me one that did.
Exactly, Martin Luther King, was a leader of that movement, and yes there were others, but the fact remains there were leaders, and there was an organization.
Just talking about something achieves nothing on it;s own. You need something a little more substantial to force change.
You don't seem to follow what I am suggesting. It was the rejection of centralized leadership, the use of single cell tactics, that allowed the Irish to defeat the British and form the Irish Republic. It is the rejection of central leadership and central military authority that has denied the US Government meaningful victory over the Taliban. Consider the democratic nature of the Taliban. Do you see their soldiers running out into the open, getting hit by daisy cutters and losing a war? They have management, not leadership and if their managers make stupid decisions, the Taliban guys would just walk away and say screw it, this is stupid. The Taliban has tribal father figures. We call them leaders, but they act more like store managers, than pontificating ego maniac dictators. No one has to follow a Taliban Tribal elder; there is a give and take, you don't see with top down leadership. They are not organized like our military; where it is all,"Yes Sir and applesauce!" Name the Commander in Chief of the Taliban?
Management and leadership are not necessarily the same thing. Walmart is a good example of this. Decisions for what will be in any given store is made by store management, not by WalMart Executives. Management is needed in a movement, to some extent, but not leadership; not until you have a settlement. Leaders are useful in final settlements, since they are persons you can hold accountable for a negotiated settlement. This peaceful protest movement is no where near the point of a negotiated settlement. When we are close to that point, the politicians and business leaders will step forward and do their jobs.
your trying to thing to hard about this. your points are empty. admit it, there is sonething wrong. I am heart broken but its a fact this movement has been eaten fron the insdie
No, this movement is not at an end or broken. There is nothing empty about what I am suggesting, either. We need the things I am discussing and we can have them all. I do not despair. I am generally up against College graduates, with a Series 7, family connections, some I-Banking experience and a few nice Armani suits. All things said and done, I will take Wall Street ego maniacs, over hardened Taliban, any day. I am not giving up, anytime soon. [smile] I accept their challenge, with a grin and a yawn. That I must go through all of this to get what I want is bizarre, at best, the result of not testing Wall Street workers for Anti- Social Personality Disorder and Narcissistic Personality Disorder, at worst, but such is the nature of Atlas Shrugged reading ego maniacs, attempting to create a boarder-less empire, run through a Global I-Bank pyramid scheme. [rolls eyes]
I get that, but all of those either had or have some form of central leadership.
You obviously, believe this can work without central leadership, I myself, do not believe that. I'm not saying I'm absolutely correct, in fact I hope I'm not.
It's just a difference in opinion, but I'm hoping for more organization. If we don't have a single message and a real effort this thing will turn into lord knows what.
The US Government is the central leadership, for the final settlement, down the road. I believe that the Party that will break rank with Wall Street first, will be the Democratic Party, though they are decidedly in the pocket of Wall Street, atm. [glares at Senator Shumer and shakes head] The ideas of the movement. fighting criminality, corruption and joblessness, will be picked up by a party; political realignment and reform will occur and Global I-Bankers will sit in their offices, glaring out the window, while listening to,"Tip toe through the Tulips!" [giggle]
I don't think they will break ranks. They can't, who would pay for their campaigns?
The Democrats have an army of special interests we could seduce with a plan to grow jobs and to create new diverse commercial enterprises, in the USA. In order to sustain the optimization of shareholder wealth creation, off of activities, in the USA, to justify massive jobs and commercial enterprise development, in the USA, we need to grow our population. In order to grow the economy, we need population growth. In order to pay for social programs we need population growth. In order to ensure population growth, we can't have one generation after another left jobless and we can't ask immigrants to move here so they can do more with less. Consider, no one is going to leave India to do more with less. If you want to grow the US population, you must have a high standard of living and you have to offer a life that no one else is offering. Can you think of any Democratic special interest groups I could seduce to support a plan that would encourage population growth? [smile]
If population growth is what you'd like to see, go talk to the right to lifers. The dems are in bed with those that oppose population control through the form of birth control and abortions.
Well, I support a woman's right to choose and I support teaching the benefits of making babies, over abortion. Desired pregnancies are being suppressed by joblessness and a lack of financial resources. Two generations need careers to make babies. Family values can exist, right along side a woman's right to choose. I am confident that with a boom in careers and a logical, well presented, argument for why population growth and family values are important, we will see a baby boom, without interfering with a woman's choice.
I actually have no idea where you're going with this. I was just making light of the fact that if population growth is what you want, then you'll have to talk to the conservative movement, because the other side supports slower population growth.
I understand and respect both sides of the life/choice argument.
They can't lead it. If they did, everyone would know its a coordinated attack instead of a grassroots movement. Can't have that.
Even grass roots movements need leadership. You simply can't get a large group to move from A to B with out some form of organization, without some form of leadership.
I mean, what do we expect Congress to do, wade through all 6 million demands and deliver them to us?
Two thumbs up
Where are they? Who are they?
Please, I need this answer.
adbusters
Thanks, I think I've found the answers, I just don't like them. No leaders, no organization, no hope for success.
With that comes strength too. There cannot be on leader or one organization. we know what happens when that happens I think. But we do need a platform on which practical steps forward can be taken. There are great things already happening out there at community and individual levels. That's where it starts for real. Transition Towns and Permaculture are a couple of examples that have been on my mind. "All the problems of the world can be solved in a Garden" - Bill Mollisson. If you can feed yourself, provide shelter and energy for yourself (or community, village town etc...) 90% of the problems disappear. And the great thing is, you actually get more free time to enjoy your life :). For that you do not need a leader and organization. Although some laws actually make it difficult for you to build a sustainable lifestyle, there are ways around it. People have done it quite successfully. There are lots of good things happening around... I think i said that already. good night people
Progress happens. To develop a platform, to develop a strategy, to control the message, come up with a vision, all of that you need organization and leadership.
I think jasonjoel said it very well, so in answer to you, i quote him: http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-strength-of-the-occupy-wall-street-movement/
I disagree, many issues, serve to divide and alienate. Polls are already starting the bear this out. This nation has been conditioned to split 50/50 on most issues. Avoiding issues that can be categorized as being Conservative, Liberal, Republican or Democrat should be avoided.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/forum-topics/
Just read the about section of the site : )
This thing is a big waste of time. Too bad, the issue is actually very, very important. Oh, well, I guess sheep will be sheep.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/what-this-all-means/
Idea - maybe this whole thing is meant to be decentralized so that we can all be our own demands and our own leaders. Sorry, I know that sounds ridiculously trite, don't know a better way to say it!
We got ourselves into this mess, we need to get ourselves out. I'm working through my local occupy to find others in my same Congressional District. My idea is to take our collective concerns from OWS to our Representative. Maybe its not as dramatic as marching on the Capitol. But if we all work to do some little things, maybe that is what will result in the big changes we want to see.
Maybe demands and a leader will emerge at some point. Maybe there will be a march to the Capitol. In the mean time, I'm going to work more locally. I'll still hang out here too. I learn a TON and get to talk with alot of really cool people!
I may be changing my view on this. Maybe, out of all this free form chaos, some forms of organization will occur, and maybe this is the right way to do it. Maybe the best type of organization will form if it happens naturally and is not forced.
I think you are correct, work more locally, but stay in contact with the national movement, with the whole movement. I'm definitely more optimistic than I was yesterday. Thanks.
Awesome! Thats what its all about. We're learning as we go!
And I think you are right, it needs to happen naturally. All things considered, I think the right themes are bubbling up quite well.
Good luck out there.
Thanks, good luck to you as well.
Click on "about" above.
Thanks, I now have my answer to these questions.
Hi Indepat, I came to this conversation a little late... I can see that you have real concerns about the lack of traditional leadership and organization in the OWS movement. You have mentioned several times that if we don't get a leader and single focus and then organize to rally around that leader and that focus - the movement will wither and die. I disagree.
This is an open source movement - which means it may look messy, disorganized, and easy to dismiss - but the very fact that there is no central control and no central leader is what makes it incredibly resilient against being co-opted.
Here's an excerpt from an article that talks about this in more detail:
" Fortunately, the Occupy movement is organized in a way that makes taking control difficult. Here are some of them:
Consensus decision making (blocks leadership as per the above).
Geographic Decentralization. Not many people in any one location.
No hierarchy or bureaucracy. A coup d'etat requires a bureaucratic hierarchy. To seize control, all you need to do get the bureaucracy to accept your orders. If it does, you are now in control. Occupy doesn't have a bureaucracy to seize control of.
No behind the scenes space. Everything is out in the open/transparent. How do you cut a deal in a smoke filled room when there isn't one?..."
full article: http://bit.ly/puVeWJ
http://occupywallst.org/forum/what-this-all-means/
I agree, and all that is great, but eventually, to take other actions and force real change, someone is going to have to step up and lead. Just my opinion.
I actually believe the opposite is true, with out leadership and organization, this thing is wide open for a hostile take over, whether it's by a party, or some other group.
But that's just me.
Since being part of this movement, I am finding that I have had to re-examine many of my old assumptions - including the belief that the only way to really achieve something is with a single leader for me to follow. I love the General Assemblies as a model for making decisions through group consensus - no central leader required. Even though my local GA is just making day-to-day practical planning type decisions right now, I view it as a good way to "practice the method". The method works beautifully in my opinion. I can see it being used to eventually address the big issues and come to consensus on solutions. What do you thin of general assembly versus central leadership? Have you attended GA's?
I'm not saying we need a single leader, but we need some form of leadership group, and we need some form of organization. Actually I agree that GA's are a great process for achieving consensus on various issues, but not as good for taking certain forms of action, or for ensuring that we are all moving together in the same direction. I also believe we need to form various departments, that could take their marching orders from GA's, and would act on their behalf. for example, I think we need a PR team and official spokespeople, we need a resource team, logistics, information dissemination team just to name a few.
This is a start: http://www.nycga.net/ I am part of the 'alternative economy' group, maybe you could give input to the 'PR' group? Working groups for specific issues exist within each GA, but this is an attempt to broaden the groups beyond their in-person meetings. There is also work in progress to coordinate/network all GA's across the country... I haven't checked in with the tech groups lately to see how that's going, but I know the first steps are being taken.
Thanks, that's good news. I'll check out the groups. I'm actually new to this, been on this forum for several days. Still trying to figure all this out. All I know is that this movement is important. We all know that there's a problem, it's about time we did something about it. Just hoping this thing actually works, because if we stay on the track we are, I fear this nation will not long endure.
Have patience with the nyca groups board - it was just setup a few days ago I think... at least there has not been much action within my group so far. But I have decided that this is MY movement too - if I make it so. I want my government back like, yesterday. I have to keep reminding myself that we have been on this destructive path for a long time, it's just finally come to the point where people are waking up to that fact that something is seriously wrong. It can't be fixed overnight, but I refuse to sit back and wait for somebody else to fix it for me.
I agree with your entire post. I think I may be starting to soften my stance for the instant need for leadership and organization. I'm starting to think it may just occur, and that it might be best to allow it to form on it's own instead of forcing a structure that may not fit or work well.
I think I'm going to stick to this site, look into my local Occupy group, and maybe get involved in some of those NYCA groups. Thanks
I'm so glad to hear that because you seem like a clear-thinker who can cut through the noise of "symptoms" and identify root -causes. That is so important at this early stage in my opinion. Great talking with you.
Thank you so much. See you around either in this forum or some other.
I tried emailing the link at the bottom of the website about a month ago... nothing. So many people want this to succeed yet nobody can get any answers.
Same here, I tried to get the to ass a tab that would serve as an information resource. But have heard nothing, nor do I expect to.
and that's another problem. There are great ideas in here and bad ones, but no one will separate them, and if there's a really good one, no one will act on it. Not saying any of mine are good or great, just making a general observation. Someone could actually figure out a strategy for achieving some goal, but it would only sit in here, languishing in chaos.
or you could go to your local occupation and spread the idea about,. I think leaderless consensus assemblies is a great way to avoid many pitfalls as have already been listed. Democracy is messy.
Actually, I thought about that last night. Checked out the Occupy Orlando web site and I only took a brief look but it looks a heck of a lot more organized than this. Looks like there also might be some form of leadership with it. I have to look more into it, unfortunately, or actually fortunately I should say, I have a job and work to do, so I'll have to get around to it when I can.
Globalist controlled AdBusters seems to be a big player. They are using the OWS movement because there are so many misinformed people within OWS, that they don't know they're protesting and demanding what they very people they're protesting against want.
Adbusters is an anti consumer, and anti capitalism group.
That's what I'm arriving at. That Sucks. Oh well, I guess it was too much to hope that an actual grassroots movement to get rid of the money in Washington, could actually coalesce into a real organization and could actually get something done.
dude there are lots of organisations that are organised around consensus,. alive and running for years! workers collectives, co-ops, even some governments. There is nothing wrong with no leader,. the only one who needs such a structure is those wishing to use old ways of manipulation and movement breaking we have seen time and time again.
I don't see it that way. I can't think of a movement that achieved real, lasting change without some form of leadership and organization.
But I could be wrong. Just my opinion.
Who started OWS?
Who started OWS?
Adbusters (extreme leftist Canadian group who hate America) put out a call to action in June. They bought and paid for this domain name the same day.
Yes, that's what it looks like. Still, the movement now has a life of it's own so I'm so worried about who started it. Am a little worried that it's still so disorganized. But whatever.
Corruptions are right on the steps of your doors.
'wanna-be leaders' are ready to jump and suck the blood of some with promising words and 'political views tones'.
Is amazing what you could see within post after post.
Not a wanna-be leader, a real leader. and yes, all leaders can be or become corrupted. Oh well, you still need them.
There's a lot of potential when it comes to who speaks out, who sits down and discusses. What we need right now is being understood.
Where what you post does not get deleted.
Where others seem lost and at the end, find each's place.
Yes. There's a lot of hate, a lot of misunderstanding. But we can't be 22% rude, 46% intelligent, 31% peaceful. We got to run it down equally.
That's not difficult.
You don't need leaders in a discussion, but you do for a movement of this magnitude and this important. Real action won't take place until some form of these things are in place.
Agree.
If the number is 99%. It will be 99% under all categories.
http://ampedstatus.org/a-report-from-the-frontlines-the-long-road-to-occupywallstreet-and-the-origins-of-the-99-movement/
Ok. So is this post about not receiving answers? And on top, peoples voices are being shut? Is that what's going on?
I have no idea what's going on anymore.
I see you're in the multitude.org.
I will be in touch. Shortly.
Take good care.
I am, but that's more of the same if you ask me. Although we need to keep talking, we also need to start doing.
I agree as well. How do you feel having a site where invitations are given and the topics is made from everyone? None will be judged. None will be turned down.
How to you feel about being involved in something everyone is equally the same?
Are you talking about another discussion site?
Not sure what would work, without leadership and organization. but I'm open to new ideas, so what do you have in mind?
"jart" is the admin. due to assorted failures to actually put up sub forums or a wiki, we can assume that Jart is actually a pwn of george soros or etc.
In short, this movement was astro turfed in order to create a dynamic left in order to boost obama numbers.
we have to reclaim it from its origins and get off the site that is obviously agent smiths living room.
http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Main_Page
http://www.followthemoney.org/?gclid=CMbY87bB-qsCFUPt7Qod9HE8mQ
http://maplight.org/us-congress/guide/data/money?9gtype=search&9gkw=list%20of%20campaign%20donations&9gad=6213192521.1&9gag=1786513361&gclid=CP61oYbB-qsCFQFZ7AodcTF0jw
http://www.opensecrets.org/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/non-violence-evolution-by-paradigm-shift/
That sounds a little conspiratorial. Not saying it's not true, but right now I'm inclined to think this is a true grass movement.
Why would Soros do this since he is clearly in that 1%. The one thing I thought this movement did well in the beginning was to place blame on both parties, not just Republicans. Unfortunately this original message has gotten lost in this mess.
What proof do you have? Genuinely interested.
if jart was genuinely interested in organizing we would have the sub forums she promised a month ago. If you track back to the money it all seems quite obvious that it isn't grass roots.
why would soros do this? because othewise the republicans were likely to win the election.
Still not sure it's him, but it doesn't look like it's anyone, which pretty much means this thing is doomed to fail and therefor a big ass waste of time.
The real protest lives in the real world, and in your own determination to do what's right.
That may be the case, but unless someone takes charge of this thing, it's over. Show me a movement that moved forward and achieved it's goals without some form of leadership, with out being organized. It just doesn't work that way, to achieve something as big as this you have to be organized.
it's a game Indepat. Nothing here matters until and unless the forum gets moderated, and there is at least a consensus. Until then, just keep posting pro-99% items. Allow them to waste resources. They can't stop. But NOTHING htey do here will change the mood of the nation or the entire planet regarding the criminal takeover which we are fighting against. I agree with what you are saying though.
You say that the mood of the nation won't change in regards to this issue, but it will, eventually the economy will turn around, and something sensational will happen and we'll all go back to business as usual, where we know the problem exists, and complain about it, but do nothing to end it.
This was our opportunity. But it's only a lost one now.
Indepat, - Be water my friend
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iO3sBulXpVw
Great clip. The late great Bruce Lee.
please dont let one tiny site on the web discourage you. This ows thing is still coalescing
Maybe, but it's not just web site, it's the fact that the whole thing is just one big rudderless ship, with no direction, and open for those in power to take over.
But I hope something does come out of this.
We live in a physical world and everything behaves according to the laws of physics. examples; Look at the classic bell curve ping pong ball experiment for one.
The movement is liquid and dynamic. A glass of water contains the same mass and thus energy regardless of whether it takes the shape of a glass or whatever vessel contains it. Or whether one contains it at all.
But what would you get more energy out of, more movement, more use, a 5ooo pound tank of water or a car?
which is why again, it is imperative for everyone to leave this trollhatten forum and join the wiki.
only an information revolution can save us. protesting is just playing into the game and con scam.
http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Main_Page
http://www.followthemoney.org/?gclid=CMbY87bB-qsCFUPt7Qod9HE8mQ
http://maplight.org/us-congress/guide/data/money?9gtype=search&9gkw=list%20of%20campaign%20donations&9gad=6213192521.1&9gag=1786513361&gclid=CP61oYbB-qsCFQFZ7AodcTF0jw
http://www.opensecrets.org/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/non-violence-evolution-by-paradigm-shift/
LOL, we haven't left cuz it's seductive, old friend. It's the only national locus for discussion, and yes, it sucks.
but its not the only locus. it was when it all started, but now there are far better places, including the wiki
Been to a few that fizzled. But will ever try again. Thanks for your links.
i can only walk the path of right action. if you and others don't follow me then OWS and occupy will languish and die.
http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Main_Page
http://www.followthemoney.org/?gclid=CMbY87bB-qsCFUPt7Qod9HE8mQ
http://maplight.org/us-congress/guide/data/money?9gtype=search&9gkw=list%20of%20campaign%20donations&9gad=6213192521.1&9gag=1786513361&gclid=CP61oYbB-qsCFQFZ7AodcTF0jw
http://www.opensecrets.org/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/non-violence-evolution-by-paradigm-shift/
Information is great, but until someone actually forms some sort of real organization, with real goals, agendas, with a strategy, and actually does something, not just talk about it, not just read about it, but actually does something, then this thing will languish until it dies.
agreed, so thats why we need to get to it.
But how? I wonder if there needs to be a call to action. Where by every Occupy group around the country needs to figure out their own leadership group. I don't know.
but how? its like talking to a wall. do you think i post these links for no reason?
i just put forth the how. BOTHER to click.
http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/THE_99%25_POLITICAL_PARTY
http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Main_Page
http://www.followthemoney.org/?gclid=CMbY87bB-qsCFUPt7Qod9HE8mQ
http://maplight.org/us-congress/guide/data/money?9gtype=search&9gkw=list%20of%20campaign%20donations&9gad=6213192521.1&9gag=1786513361&gclid=CP61oYbB-qsCFQFZ7AodcTF0jw
http://www.opensecrets.org/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/our-new-wiki/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/non-violence-evolution-by-paradigm-shift/
jart is the admin for this website, if your interest pertains to this website send jart a private message
Otherwise, you should go to nycga.net, register and post your concerns there
How do you send jart a private message? If it's through the links provided on the home page, then it's useless. I've sent emails, all I get is a message that states they are too busy to even read an email, but that that's a good thing.
http://occupywallst.org/users/jart/
Thanks, I sent jart an email. Looking forward to a response but I'm not holding my breath.
Thanks, Indepat, this is a good thread.
See http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=27053 for background.
A writer for wagingnonviolence.org suggested that the symbol of Liberty Square will play out soon and should move on, like a "flash mob" protest, a moving target to support a principle--hopefully kept simple and un-co-opted.
Unfortunately it won't remain simple, and un-co-opted. Just look at this forum.
Let's hope, though, the Jinni of open dialogue is out of the bottle. Witness the mostly middle-class, middle-aged occupiers of Pioneer Park in Salt Lake City, who keep good terms with the police chief there. #OWS was a spark of imagination. A NY astrologer says we can set our cosmic clock for big social change in 2012. He put it in a good light. Hey, ya never know.
Will OWS members be putting this social activisim on their future resumes?
This movement sucks
Just keeping tabs on this one as well. I probably have at least 60 seconds left, 30 after making some corrections.
Just trying to keep this near the top
it's a leaderless movement, so they say. It was started by a group in Canada called adbusters who put out a call to action to occupy wall street. The site was bought and paid for by adbusters. Look them up and see what they stand for. Educate yourself.
Really? I'll check it out. So there are no leaders to this group?
do you know who runs this web site. I've emailed them but they don't respond.
Registrant: Kalle Lasn 1243 7th West Vancouver, British Columbia V6H 1B7 Canada
Registered through: GoDaddy.com, Inc. (http://www.godaddy.com) Domain Name: OCCUPYWALLSTREET.ORG Created on: 09-Jun-11 Expires on: 09-Jun-12 Last Updated on: 27-Jul-11
Administrative Contact: Lasn, Kalle domains@adbusters.org 1243 7th West Vancouver, British Columbia V6H 1B7 Canada +1.6047369401
Technical Contact: Lasn, Kalle domains@adbusters.org 1243 7th West Vancouver, British Columbia V6H 1B7 Canada +1.6047369401
Domain servers in listed order: NS.RACKSPACE.COM NS2.RACKSPACE.COM
Registry Status: CLIENT DELETE PROHIBITED Registry Status: CLIENT RENEW PROHIBITED Registry Status: CLIENT TRANSFER PROHIBITED Registry Status: CLIENT UPDATE PROHIBITED
http://who.godaddy.com/whois.aspx?k=Dnm2Cy/UAV45yVOJUj8JWkHRjGerJtLT&domain=occupywallstreet.org&prog_id=GoDaddy
For Adbusters: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adbusters Kalle Lasn was one of its founding members.
Canadian website adbuster.org told people to gather at wall street on September 17 and people just gathered. Now we don't know why we are here. Now we have collected 500k and more. Now we just spend it. US is supposed to have smart people but now we are proving that we are dumb. I was part of OWS, now I am done.
Unbelievable. With no organization, no leadership, this thing is doomed to fail. What a waste of time.
I think I'm waiting for the smart people to show up with a plan and some person to lead us through to its fruition. I think both sides are right. We are waiting for the movement to grow....because we haven't found anyone who has a workable solution to this global economic and environmental catastophy. I just hope he/she/they hurry up before we lose our momentum.
Yes, exactly. Unfortunately what I'm finding is no such person exists, at least not in this movement, and we are in danger of losing momentum.
Right, hopefully won't be too late.
http://www.adbusters.org/blogs/adbusters-blog/2011/june.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupy_Wall_Street#Background
Well that sucks. This thing is doomed to fail, and therefor a big waste of time.
Actually, the thing that really sucks is that this is actually an important issue, and this is now a opportunity lost.
I'm not disagreeing with you. But how did you come to that conclusion from that link?
There are no leaders, there is no organization, and without these two things this thing cannot and will not survive. You simply cannot move forward and force any real change without these two things.
Okay thanks. I totally agree with you, I was just wondering how you had come to the same conclusion. Pretty much the same thing. The first step toward accomplishing an objective is to focus on an objective. They're determined not to do that, which means that they can't even fail because they're not even trying to do anything.
This is really sad, because I truly believe that if we don't get the money out of Washington we will lose everything.
Go to here first: http://www.nycga.net/how-to-help/ "You can also mail a check or money order to the Alliance for Global Justice. Please indicate “Occupy Wall Street” in the memo line. Alliance for Global Justice 1247 “E” Street, SE Washington, DC 20003 Or CALL at 202-544-9355 to make a telephone donation.""
Then go here: http://afgj.org/ "The Alliance for Global Justice (AfGJ) and its predecessor and founder, the Nicaragua Network, have been well-known grassroots organizations within the Central and Latin America solidarity movement and the anti-corporate globalization movement for over three decades. For probably 25 years we’ve used our 501(c)(3) non-profit tax status to fiscally sponsor projects that do not have their own tax-exempt status."
Then here: http://www.nicanet.org/ "The Nicaragua Network has been organizing in solidarity with the people of Nicaragua for over 30 years. In February of 1979, the Network was founded to support the popular struggle to overthrow the 45 year US-supported Somoza family dictatorship, and after the July 19 victory, to support the efforts of the Sandinista Revolution to provide a better life for the nation’s people. Thus, for over a quarter of a century, the Network has been a leading organization in the United States committed to social and economic justice for Nicaragua, Latin America and the world, based on respect for sovereignty and self-determination. The Network advocates for sound U.S. foreign policies that respect human rights and international law. The Nicaragua Network provides information and organizing tools to a network of 200 solidarity, sister city, and peace and justice committees across the U.S."
God I hope this is not the case. If so this thing is doomed and just a big waste of time.
I'll check into to it.
Yeah, go run down to you local bookstore and pickup the newest issue of Adbusters and help make them richer. OWS r pawns for Adbusters.....hahahahahahah OWS has been duped.
You just show how ignorant you are sitting here spouting off bullshit.
Adbusters is a non-profit organization & the magazine is not available in bookstores.
Stupid douchebag.
Really, I just looked at the latest issue at Barns & Noble...so blind and so sheepish u r....follow, follow, follow....
Adbusters is on newsstands in NYC. It's okay to be starry-eyed and pugnacious, but at least get it straight, trash mouth.
I suppose you've been on every thread here that talks about dirty hippies, titties, gay bashing, etc and called all those right wing cretins "trashmouth" too, right? Oh, maybe not.
And I don't need your permission to be "pugnacious" or "starry eyed".
Tough shit if you don't like me giving these stupid douchebags back the verbal abuse that they dish out - especially when they pull their "facts" out of their asses.
ooh rah--knew you had it in you
Btw, if you're sincere about the success of this movement, and not just a plant, reread this thread and pay close attention--it's about the survival of the "leaderless nonviolent resistance movement," or at least what it may have started.
That maybe so, but why do you find that funny.
The issue is real, and if something doesn't happen we will all pay.
OWS is already paying....Adbusters is making money off OWS.