Forum Post: What's the message?
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 15, 2011, 9:38 a.m. EST by stevonbi
(85)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Many people (some who know damn well what we're about) are asking: Well, what is it they want? Why not tell'em? Because there is no message? I think there is, but it has to be gleaned, read between the lines.......it isn't helping to inform some who may be open to the simple and effective things that could be done to effect genuine change for the good.
Before I get into what I think might be said to constitute an "organized" list of demands, let me make one thing clear: These are just some ideas.....hopefully they might start a conversation and, ultimately end up as a list of issues or demands that we can all agree on. I am not saying that what I think is right, or the best way. That's where you all come in!! To help, if at all possible (or even desired), to streamline the message.
And that is exactly the problem as I see it. There are a bunch of ideas being floated that (while they are perfectly legitimate) may tend to dilute or confuse the Occupy message. Some examples? Nobody I know is "for" fracking, foreclosures suck, debt that would be restructured in a saner society is bad. I could go on at length, but the idea (as I see it) is to condense them into something that we can all agree on. This would mean weeding out the redundant or "less important" issues in favor of the ones that would draw more support, and more protesters!!!
I just think we'd be better off tackling the bigger, more basic things first. Things that, if changed, would obviate the need for protesting fracking, or most of a long list of things that are corollary. If corporations didn't have the right to unlimited anonymous campaing contributions given them in the Citizens United case, wouldn't it be a moot point? Absent the power of money; lobbyists and bought and paid for politicians.......the lawmakers would vote for the common good. Fracking would be history. So would many things on that list.......
So why not go right for the throat, the soft underbelly of the 1%? End Corporate Personhood!! Take the money OUT of elections!! The issues would then be decided democratically, without the enormous pressure brought to bear on folks who are all too susceptible (human?) to cash infusions.
Am I on to something here? Does this make sense to anyone? To me, it seems that good legislation, with a fair money-free operation would almost automatically (with the usual oversight) set the election system right. And that can't happen with it being adulterated with money.....especially unlimited, anonymous money.
This is meant to be the beginning of a dialogue....what else should be included to make a simple and short list? I do not see how we can take the power back from those who have taken it from us without changing corporate personhood and the election system (as far as money).
I think the same could be said for holding the corporations and individuals guilty of crimes that have driven this country to it's knees, accountable. They have cost millions their homes and savings. If the corporations did not have their bought and paid for politicians and the ability to freely buy them thanks to Citizens United and the resultant "Corporate Personhood", would the Congress be packed with lawmakers who are afraid to upset their masters? I think not!!!
So, that is the main thrust of my "Keep it simple" arguement. It's not that I think that anybody shouldn't be able to show whatever sign, chant whatever slogan, etc., that they want. I just think that the Movement/organization AS A WHOLE would greatly benefit from a clear and simple message that could be very effective for drawing new people IN without turning anyone AWAY.
It begs comparison to the organisation of 12 step groups: they are NOT organised!!! There ARE no leaders, rules, enforcement. But they have had great success with a primary purpose......to bring their message to those who need it. And that message is by definition simple. I feel that the Occupy movement would also benefit from a simple and direct message.
Anyhoo, there it is!! Pile on, revile it, love it, whatever. I would love to have feedback, and to get the opinions of any who have one. Ahem, ;) And certainly there's room for a few more pointed demands.....bring 'em on!!! Steve Miller Block Island (which is why you aren't hearing this in person)
be thankful 50% of the world lives on $2 a day or less. People in Africa are starving. In some countries like England they spend tax payer money on a King and Queen that did nothing to earn their title. Mexicans die trying to cross our border just to work hard and make less than 90% of the Americans. People have family members dying of cancer, and you consider taking money from the rich instead of being thankful for how good the US really is.
With all due respect, that's an ill-informed opinion. In this country of great wealth, millions have lost their homes and jobs, while the perpetrators go unpunished. The corporations can donate unlimited money , anonymously, to political campaigns. The rich and wealthy corporations pay little or no taxes on BILLIONS in income, and balk at paying at the rate secretaries pay. They have a lock on the system; their bought-and-paid-for lawmakers do their master's bidding, tailoring the laws so that we now have the biggest "redistribution of wealth" in the history of our nation. When will it be enough? Never, if we don't take the power back.
Don't listen the these people! Everyone wants our message so they can categorize us, pay us off, and move us aside. Maybe we should say nothing and have the governments (fed, state, local) come to us? We are already seeing the politicians change thier stance (i.e. Cantor) and the Tea Baggers (cowards) are no where in site - let those in power come to us!
Have you ever seen a political scandal occur, and the miscreant says "i will not resign!", and keeps saying it.......until suddenly he resigns? It's the same thing with our co-opted democracy. First they scoff and malign us, then grudgingly, accept us until finally, they do what WE want. Let them come to us? We'll be waiting a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time. I say again: these bought-and-paid-for-politicians will react to pressure, it's what they understand. The more clear we are the better they understand US. If we're all over the place message-wise, it's very easy for people to dismiss us. Focus on where we all agree; don't we basically all want the same things?
Consider this question: Why would someone who has a defective and infected heart have an operation to fix the arteries and veins around the heart? The heart itself is the problem, so you need heart transplant surgery, NOT the cleaning of the veins and arteries around it, because the veins and arteries, altho cleaned, can only stay clean for so long, the heart will still remain as the problem. You must remove the heart and put in a healthy and new heart.
Same goes for our monetary system. You cannot try to change things WITHIN the system, it just wont work, just look at human history. Every major riot, protest, war, etc. Has perhaps provided momentary relief BUT the conditions have gotten back to where they were because you cannot have honesty with money, people get bought off, like obama and all other presidents, banks will be bailed out again, the environment will continue to be destroyed for profit, and more problems will persist.
We need a Resource based economy, NOT a monetary system. Please check out the zeitgeist film series and the venus project. Im just here to help, I love you all and care for everyone, including those politicians who are fooling themselves, for it will be their children and grandchildren who will suffer the consequences of their actions
We will NEVER have honesty and morality in government, business, healthcare, etc etc with a monetary system. It is the most paralyzing and corrupt system ever faced by man and it's biggest challenge is the idea of open minded people who have educated themselves to realize WE DONT NEED MONEY!!! We need technnology and science applied with the humane direction of preserving the natural environment and creating a life of abundance for all the people's world, while also stimulating a positive social environment
A wonderful ideal, but I feel most people would not know how to handle this. Certainly money has adulterated our election system to the point of co-opting our voices. The trouble is: How do you change the monetary system if those with money are calling the shots? More than 70 percent of Americans want a single-payer health care system, but it's not even on the table. More than 70% want corporations and the rich to pay what secretaries pay, but it seems impossible to do. GET THE MONEY OUT, and there is a very good chance the will of the people will be heard over the will of the wealthy corporate interests. Both of these issues will cost the corporations tens and hundreds of billions of dollars......small wonder they are being fought against tooth and nail by the bought-and paid-for-politicians!!!!!!!!
http://blog.richardkentgates.com
i am collecting a poll of demands. if you would really like to know as you say, pass this link around
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?hl=en_US&formkey=dFlNNHJTRlZwMWs5ZjlhTWN0NlZReHc6MQ#gid=0
Thanks Richard. I went and participated. When will the results be available?
as soon as i have a large amount of results. the making public of emails for transparency i think scares people off but if i cannot validate it, then it is worthless. if you would like to get involved i can share some data before hand.
I will post any results you get on Facebook. I think that people who won't list their emails can expect no progress. The whole movement is about speaking out, not speaking anonymously. I will do anything I can to help spread the message....... My email......oh, that's right, you already have it!!! stevonbi@msn.com :)
sweeeet
GUYS, please, why are we protesting if we DONT present a solution?!?!
Has anyone here ever heard of the venus project? This is a wonderful opportunity to present to the world the ideas of industrial and social engineer Jacque Fresco and his life long philosophy and work.
Please checkout the venusproject.com and youtube it and watch the zeitgeist films, thanks
The message is 'we don't want deception!'
To take something away from someone else - to profit by another's loss - is more unnatural than death, or destitution, or pain, or any other physical or external blow. To begin with, this strike at the roots of human society and fellowship. For if we each of us propose to rob or injure one another for our personal gain, then we are clearly going to demolish what is more emphatically nature's creation than anything else in the whole world; namely, the link that nites every human being with every other...Nature's law promotes and coincides with the common interest...If people claim that they have no intention of robbing their parents or brothers for their own gain, but that robbing their compatriots is a different matter, they are not talking sense.
I agree completely with your statement. I think it may need to be turned in to what you think we DO need; i.e. truth in politics? I remember fuming against GW Bush. It got me nowhere, because it was negative. I remember how much better I felt being FOR Obama. Unfortunately for all of us, it turns out that Obama is another bought-and-paid-for politician, in bed with Big Money.........
Exactly. We can have Tea Party, Conservatives, moderates, and liberals all fighting for the same thing, because once the money is eliminated a real debate can begin, then everyone back to their corners. So please, shelf the specific political views, and unite to fight the bigger problem. Those other issues will be there when we win, I promise. And stop hating on the rich! Its prejudicial and not solving the problem. The system needs changed.
I had mentioned something similiar here: http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-simple-demand-that-needs-to-be-repeated-over-and/
keep it simple - End Money Dictating Policy.
Once our individual voices are equal to the individuals in the 1%, we can have real debate in our government, not theater.
YES!!!! The movement would be unstoppable......what a wonderful vision. All we have to do is focus on what we can agree on as the primary objectives. The rest will sort itself out..........
Please, take a moment to support the occupation movement. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reazEr_AIBk
Historically change of government and political systems have begun with people getting organized...lets be patience and lets see this unfold. Too many of us are getting hurt by the way things are in our country..no doing/saying anything is not acceptable any longer..
I agree with what you say, stevonbi, but to me, it can be boiled down ever further. I think the most essential underlying message in the movement is "We are sick and tired of being owned by the Corporate States of America."
If you look at all the fractile causes within the movement -- jobs, taxes, environment, healthcare, etc -- they all seem to come to an intersection at corporate rule of the country. This is what you were saying when you said "End Corporate Personhood." I would carry it one step farther, though and say "End Corporate Rule" becaue they cotrol us in so many ways other than government influence -- through marketing, through globalization where they can hold us hostage by shipping jobs overseas and forcing us to work for slave wages, by dictating to us what products and fashions we will want -- so many ways outside of government and the courts where they pull the strings and we jump.
To me, this movement not only has to have an impact on the way we are governed, but also on the way we live our lives and how we make our decisions. I hope others see this as well, because I truly believe that we have, through ignorance and laziness, allowed ourselves to be led here by the Corporate Pied Pipers.
I completely agree, and think we are essentially saying the same thing. But where to start? Take the money OUT of the system. Restore a more true Democracy. The rest will fall into place when the will of the people is done by the elected officials, and NOT the will of the 1%.
I certainly agree that we need to start with that. From there, I think we really need to concentrate on education in responsibility and civics. But, yes, I agree we are saying the same thing. Nice to know I'm not alone.
Don't listen the these people! Everyone wants our message so they can categorize us, pay us off, and move us aside. Maybe we should say nothing and have the governments (fed, state, local) come to us? We are already seeing the politicians change thier stance (i.e. Cantor) and the Tea Baggers (cowards) are no where in site - let those in power come to us!