Forum Post: What will happen if occupy does gain control.
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 25, 2011, 3:19 p.m. EST by 4TheHumanSocietyProject
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Are you so sure that the "founding fathers" will do everything you expect them to do? are you so sure they wont be selfish and take what they want before what you need? They are asking to take control of what already controls you. How does that make sense to you? please explain!
When you block parks/ports/roads/bridges/subways/sidewalks/stores that takes away the rights of the real 99% to pass through or use those spaces. And that means cops can come in and take back the rights for those people that OWS stole. OWS is getting further and further from its original message, and now seems just to want to blockade for blockading's sake. Why isn't OWS blockading near the mythical 1%, why are they not doing anything that will -directly- affect the '1%'? Just affecting the little guy...keeping him from using the park, the sidewalk, the road, the bridge, the subway, and keeping him from getting to work or going home. Block the yacht club, take over a country club. You think that blocking a subway gets a 1% to hear you or care? You're not inconveniencing them, you're inconveniencing the 99%, the real 99%.and they aren't going to put up with it indefinitely. Its the real 99% who will make you stop your invasions of public spaces so they can go back to using them too in peace and order. Stop making war on America, OWS. Go after the 1% if you must, but please stop hurting the real 99.
sure. the American revolution did something that had never been done before: the people, not the king, decided how things were going to be. it was revolutionary. it had never happened in history. now, the Occupy movement is saying, "we don't need leaders to be free". the people can decide. our government and our economy is controlled and owned by corporations. the occupy movement is about US and how we will change everything. do you really think after all this time that the corporations which are the government will allow elections or congress or the president to change anything? are you really that naive? for real? really?
No I am not. You keep saying all this stuff about everyone else but ask not what your country can do for but what you can do for your country. You are the only one capable of making a difference. I know our government sucks. I believe government will never work. We as humans must make the right choices.
ok, I agree with that. it has to be, at the end, be about the people. I think GA's can solve anything. that's because its strategy, not tactics.
Don't forget the drum circle near the Mayor's home. That was constructive. Comedian's should be thanking OWS for all this new material.
well these leader are just as bad as the cops in ny and elsewhere that wont let people protest. why? cause the censor thoughts. like stuff alexjones talks about and espically ron paul. if they censor thoughts and free speech already I wouldnt ever wanna see the leaders of OWS in charge.
i don't really think you understand the concept. OWS is made of all types. the underlying theme is awareness. once you have that, what you do with it is up to you.
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I don't think your really understand me. The government ultimately tells you what you can and cant do. You wont have everyone on your side. You will have to set rules.
if you need an example of the power social perception has, talk to your grandmother, an african american, or any immigrant worker.
You are alive today... So it is safe to assume you have got what you needed. Anything more then that is simply a desire.
i'm sorry, did you just say shut up and be happy with what you have?
no I believe there are people have way to much however you are bitching when you have enough. The problem is you bitch instead of helping. Go help someone less fortunate then you. Stop being a asshole.
so you know what i have? looks like you're ASSuming.
sure. But since you are typing to me I can safely assume you have enough. I believe we are arguing for the sake of arguing. I do appreciate your time and concern and only hope you point that in the right direction. Thank you!
so you know what i have?
No i obviously know your alive. So you dont need much more. You obviously have internet and a computer or have the money or shelter where you can have these things or even a phone to post.
ah. so you are saying be happy with what you have and shut up. well fk you. hows that?
Its ok because I still love you. If you need anything just post it in http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Human-Society-Project/202270743180999 I will be glad to help you to the fullest extent of my power.
This is a naïve and simplistic worldview. I have what I need. Does that mean that I should stand by and watch while American citizens who have certain rights are denied freedom of opportunity? I have a desire for the inequality that exists to bring the bottom 20% along with it. Is that desire wrong? In fact, it isn't. It is my job as a citizen of the world to ensure that I speak out against the lack of moral conscience present in today's political and economic systems.
You could go help others. Stop wasting your time complaining and help people. http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Human-Society-Project/202270743180999
Yeah, your project is the only way to help people. There's nothing helpful about fighting for values that have been ignored, or freedoms that have been denied. It's so wholly unhelpful to bring these issues to the attention of the nation and the world.
You, sir, should be president. Although, you don't believe in government, so why don't we just dissolve the government and let anarchy rule. Sure, there'll be an adjustment period, but, hey, in 40 years all the weak and immoral people will be gone, and we can rule ourselves as (hell's) angels.
well I do not have all the answers. I do believe though that if we don't become a better race someone is gonna nuke someone its gonna get real ugly and everyone will say man I wish we would of just been less selfish and the population wouldn't of been dissolved to nothing and now we all will die in a nuclear winter. I believe we all have the capability of great and good things we just need to think about what really matters. I do appreciate your nice comments but I do believe we can change before it gets bad.
Right, and that's what OWS is all about. It's about making people aware of the massive economic injustice being perpetrated, and deeper than that it is calling for a massive rethink of the ideologies so many people hold to be true without actually thinking about them. If we are to change, then we must understand why our current ideologies don't work, and work collectively to discover the Good. OWS is a step in that direction.
I do believe they have the ability to do great things. Its just there direction is off. I believe we should be winning the hearts of people not pissing people off. I dont think we can obtain great good out of this.
That's like saying that the Civil RIghts Movement was misdirected because it pissed people off. You'd be surprised at how many people are actually embracing OWS.
well obviously the civil rights movement didn't work to plan. Look at where we are now. I am looking for a permanent solution to a temporary problem. Not a temporary solution to a permanent problem. I don't know if you will understand that cause its kinda nonsense unless you think in the same manner as me.
So take the time to organise your thoughts clearly, rationally, and concisely. If your ideas are actually good, then a good argument (true premises and valid reasoning) will lead to a conclusion that cannot be rejected.
I agree with you. I am in that process right now. I just started this and my proffessor told me it was great so I made a Facebook page a week ago. I really appreciate your time if you would like to help let me know. I suggest the best way to help is help remove fear from your heart. "the only thing you have to fear is fear itself" I believe if we all really fought toward that it would be perfection or at least close to it. Please like my Facebook page it would really help get this word out. I do not want any money or anything I just want us as a human race to progress in right direction!
OWS doesn't aim to take control. Well there are some radicals among the ranks, because it's a big tent, but OWS isn't purporting to be an alternate form of government or the basis for one. It is simply a network for opposition to the corruption in the financial system and the government.
um, exactly - that does not make sense and I do wish you would explain.
self-governance and the return of common law for all reasonable people?
anyone who brings harm to others, becomes subject to the penalties of law.
this covers all provable acts of intentional harm.
I believe if you harm anyone you are no better then them. If you make a system that harms someone you are still at fault because you made or abide by the system.
Well several people are currently harming many because they certainly seem to believe they are better than those they harm simply because those that are harmed likely cannot understand the bazillion miles of complex codes of which they are thereby being harmed as well as enslaved.
well occupy seems to think they are better then the people in charge. I BELIEVE NO ONE CAN RULE ANYONE. we as a human race as a human person can only rule yourself. If you do not eliminate the main problem. your fix will only be temporary. The world will come to a demise again. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSc4qELHn1I
"If men were angels, no government would be necessary." - James Madison
Unfortunately, it's easily seen that men are not angels, and so government is more than necessary.
I do not believe that. We can be damn near close to angels. If you think you cant be good no matter what then I believe you are lying to yourself.
Again, you misunderstand the point. If everyone were prepared to take the time to find out what the Good is, then yes, philosophically speaking we could be damn near close to angels. You overestimate people's willingness to analyse their beliefs to find the truth about a good moral life. Not everyone is a philosopher, or has the capability of being a philosopher. You are extremely naïve, sir. Good luck.
You are naive to think you are better then someone. We all have the same ability's unless you have some sort of autism. People have been beat down by society and are driven by fear in the wrong direction.
You may want to do some neurological research on that claim; I'm no scientist, but I'm pretty sure it's well established that minds are not made equal, the same way that I can't write as well as Nabokov, or paint like Michelangelo, or write symphonies like Mozart, or solve mathematical quandaries like Cantor.
Without anyone in control, who controls law?
Common law, going back to the Magna Carta, is very simple. Do not harm or offend anyone.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/interesting-read-about-the-constitution-and-corpor/#comment-427594
Control of what?
Control of what people "need". since you guys know so much about what I need.
I don't know anything about what anybody else needs and neither does anyone else. This movement is about all of us taking control of our own lives.
That's Libertarian, not anarchy. Is OWS Libertarian?
I think you confuse Us and the boss.
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Are you overweight? Do you drink caffeine? Do you eat red meat? do you exercise everyday? do you use any substances what so ever? Can you handle any situation with out losing control of your emotions? Do you want to help everyone whenever possible? Do you try 100 percent at every single thing? if you answer no to any of those questions you are not in control of your life...
Not overweight, no caffeine, do eat red meat, do exercise daily, substances as prescribed by doctor whenever needed. As to the last three; Emotions are entirely natural Not everyone deserves help Not every situation requires 100%
Just because our doctors today say its OK to take prescriptions doesn't necessarily mean they are good. Every situation should be handled with 100 percent. This doesn't mean to go crazy fast at everything. I mean 100 percent thought process... do what is 100 percent necessary to accomplish the task at hand. Do not cut corners because you are only cheating yourself.
I agree with you. However, a doctor knows far more about the body than I do and if they say that something can help me then I may take it. On the other hand if that situation does play out but I can feel the drugs making me feel worse then I will get off of them. After all I know my own body better than anyone else. Obviously when doing something where someone can get killed I would give 100% such as driving, Not every situation requires 100% thought over. The more you think about something the more your emotions can take hold and skew what you are thinking.
Well once again I disagree. I believe my emotions are in check. I do not allow myself to let my emotion get in the way of the right choice. I do appreciate you talking to me about this though. I feel that if one does not cleanse ones self of all materialistic ideals and insecurities one can not be cleansed of negative emotion.
To be perfectly frank, how do you know? Emotions rule our lives and color everything we see and or do
there is always a good and bad. There is good emotion and bad emotion. People are consumed by a society that feeds of bad emotion. We have lived our entire lives fighting and yelling. I believe just like any teenager eventually we have to grow up. So when will the human race grow up? I think its safe to say after the thousands or how ever many years we have been alive... it is time to grow up. We could move in a positive direction towards saving humanity for the future. Not worrying about how much money we have or what business we need but how to move life past this planet so we ultimately don't die on earth.
Emotions are emotions are emotions. The only way to make humanity grow up would be to get rid of emotions. Love is a positive emotion wouldn't you say? However, when coupled with heart break it turns into something else based in a positive emotion and has gotten people killed.
I do not believe that. I have notice that young kids love everyone until they grow up into society. They are care free they simply just have tons and tons of love. they do not love one they love all!
I am sixteen years old and have only loved one person in my life outside of my family. I hardly love any one. Any of my friends I would jump in front of a charging bull for and have had to do something similar. Not love but dedication and a caring for someone outside oneself that many seem to lack.
Well I would gladly help you. l would gladly die for you.
and I do love you http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSc4qELHn1I
I would do that cause you are a human. All humans should care for all humans. I do not discriminate because we should love one another we should have world peace. If I didn't do that it would mean I think I'm better then you. I do not. I respect life therefore I would save anyone's life.check that link out. http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Human-Society-Project/202270743180999
Why would you do that? You don't know me and have nothing to gain.
Huh, that's really odd. What in the world does my diet have to do with how much control I have over my life? And why does being over weight, drinking coffee, eating read meat have to do with how much control I have over my life? I have a heart condition and I'm on a fairly complicated prescribed coctail of medication, but if anything, it gives me more control over my life. In fact, without them I probably wouldn't have any life at all.
Umm your missing the point. If you cannot take care of your body how can you take care of anything. I mean literally it is the only thing you really own... You can not take care of it. Soda is bad for you ... caffeine is mind altering. Read meat can cause heart disease. I am sorry about your condition I did not mean to take a stab at you like that. It is great that science has helped you along but I believe you take for granted the fact that you could take care of your body better and prolong your life. If you do not do that you do not respect your self as a human being.
Actually it is only processed meat that raises the risk of heart disease and diabetes through 42% possible increase in CDL and 19% possible increase in diabetes. The only possible problems with red meat is the saturated fat but I hate to break common theory but fat is good. You need it for every cell in your body.
red meats (such as beef, pork and lamb) and avoid processed meats. ham, bacon, salami, hot dogs and sausages. last time I checked processed meats and red meats are one in the same.
Absolutely not. Steak is a red meat and bologna is processed. Now you could have said they can come from the same animal but processed meat statistically has 50% more salt which is bad for the arteries and loads more preservatives. Most of the preservatives have been linked to cancer.
also I do not kill mammals. If you like your red meat so much eat your dog.
I love my dog. That being said if I had to I would eat my dog. Feel free to think what you want but frankly I don't give a damn about what you think.
well my friend red meat is bad for you. from the second it is takin out of the animal to the second it is processed. The main determinant of the nutritional definition of the color of meat is the concentration of myoglobin. The white meat of chicken has under 0.05%; pork and veal have 0.1-0.3%; young beef has 0.4-1.0%; and old beef has 1.5-2.0%.[3]
According to the USDA all meats obtained from livestock are red meats because they contain more myoglobin than chicken or fish.
You are correct based off of what I said. My apologies. I was not very clear. I did not mean to say that processed meat was not red just that it has so much more added to it. And no comment on my statistics. Thanks for ignoring the facts. And I'm sorry red meat is good for you. It depends on the type of meat you choose. A review of 54 studies on red meat and heart disease found that lean red meat trimmed of visible fat does not raise total cholesterol or LDL cholesterol levels. Lean trimmed red meat is low in saturated fat and can be included in cholesterol lowering and heart healthy diets. A number of studies have shown cholesterol reductions when people include lean red meat in a low saturated fat diet. Avoid fried meats, fatty meats and meat which has fat marbled through it. Yes I copied and pasted that last part I just simply did not feel like paraphrasing it all.
well I guess it ultimately comes down to me believing that it is wrong to kill mammals and you not believing that. It is just sad that we think we are better then a race that only takes what they need and protects and loves there race. We take more then we need and care about no one. When I say we I mean the human race.
When I say we I mean people who have no morals. I love what I need and my family. To be perfectly honest, I don't view a life in which I only exist by only taking what I need as much of a life at all. Also, I know it been overused as a point, but what about lions killing zebras? Why don't you tell the lions to become vegetarian
because we cannot communicate with them. For our entire life we have been killing them it is only a natural instinct to fight back. Just like when your dog chases a squirrel none trained him to do that he just does.
They don't kill nearly as many humans as they do antelope. Humans are also instinctual creatures. Like flinching when something is thrown unexpectedly in you direction.
But you said if I answered no to whether or not I use cafeine I was not in control of my life. Now you say that if I use caffeine it is a mind altering drug. So I supppose mind altering drugs give you more control over your life. You said that if I didn't eat red meat I wasn't in control of my life. Now you say if I do eat it it will give me heart disease (which I already have). Self indulgence doen't necessarily mean a lack of self respect. As Mae West said, anything worth doing is worth doing in excess. But what has any of this to do with OWS?
I apologize I meant if you didn't answer no to any of those questions. Sorry about that and thanks for understanding.
well I'm sorry I believe you are mistaken. Just because it is mind altering does not mean it alters for control. You can only be in control on your own. Cause ultimately if something is helping you gain control then you are solely not in control. What I mean is... If you do these things they harm your body... I believe you do not want to harm your body... If you did harm your body it would be considered a form of insanity or no more different then someone slitting there wrist.. I don't care what some guy said cause I make my decisions. What this has to do with OWS Is it seems to me to be like a bunch of scared insecure people striving to take control of something to fill there materialistic void. I made a mistake . I meant if you do eat it you are not in control of your life.
What about the collective control of our social environment?
think global, act local...make positive changes within and around yourself.. if everyone would do this we would have paradise on earth!! remove your insecurities and do not let them control you. Help the man next to you. Screaming and yelling can only go so far I believe. You cannot help anyone until you help yourself.
Sometimes it is necessary also to act globally, as, for example, our solidarity with the demonstrators in Tahrir Square and they for us.
the bilderberg, skull and bones, agenda 21, and Rothschilds will.
The whole World is laughing at you dumb fucks. Obama's little retarded ship
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You're not going to 'gain control.' First of all you are dumber than rocks, every last one of you. You're protesting big stores now. Why, you stupid fucks, they have nothing to do with Wall Street?
A couple of weeks ago you went to some billionaires places to protest. You went to Rupert Murdoch's and David Koch's buildings. They have nothing to do with Wall Street, you idiots.
You walked right past George Soros' place. If you protested his place, you would have finally been in the right place. He's a convicted felon for insider trading. A hedge fund trader. A supporter of Democrats and the Obama regime. Finally, your protests would have been directed to the right place.
But NO, you went right by. You didn't even know it. Your puppetmasters made you skip him because HE is funding this idiocy along with Democrats.
Keep it up. Keep spending all this money Democrats, it isn't going to matter as long as you have these moron lemmings doing your dirty work.
hedge fund trader(?!)like you.
Nice reply moron. Just proves you OWS dopes really are as dumb as people think you are. Please get a job bum.
It seems to me that you are the "dumb" one here, sir. OWS is more than just about the grossly unethical conduct of banks and firms on Wall Street. It is drawing attention to the fact that the inequality in this country, which conservatives claim actually benefits us all (can you believe they say the wealth will trickle down?), violates principles our country was founded on. And yet, here you are, actively deriding people who are daring to question the 'truths' that you so readily accept. You can either put your head down, and do as your boss tells you, pretending there's nothing wrong with the economy, society, and government that controls your life, or think about the lack of transparency and truth so prevalent in America right now. It's up to you, but to call us all "dopes" is to prove the need for this movement. It's ignorant followers like you that reinforce the fact that this country needs OWS, if only to create an open discourse.
Oh, and if it weren't for the fact that the economic inequality violates John Rawls's Second Principle of Justice (formulated rationally from the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence), I'm sure most OWS protesters would be able to find jobs quite easily.
Oh, and yeah, I'm the kind of "dumb" "dope" who takes the time to read political philosophy and refute ignoramuses like you who find that the best way to win an argument is ad hominem.
I've used some words you're probably not familiar with. www.dictionary.com might help you.
Well, you got the right username. You don't even live in this country, ahole. Your country is falling apart thanks to you effing morons who want other people's money. I worked for mine and never once did I want another guy's money because he had more than me. Get a job, you useless fucking piece of shit.
People shouldn't want other peoples money your right. I don't think you should come in with your negative and violent attitude. I don't support OWS but I don't think you are doing the right thing either. Treating them less then the way you wanted to be treated is not fair.
Aw, baby boy is angry! Just so you know, born and raised in New York City, currently studying in London. So, your country is my country, I'm afraid.
Anyway, I'm confused as to how referring to the British as "effing morons who want other people's money" is doing your argument any good. Oh wait, I forgot; you don't actually have an argument.
Again, I think the point that I was trying to make, that you still haven't addressed is that there are few jobs available because of the fact that the 1% are in clear violation of Rawls's Second Principle of Justice; since you're probably too stupid to do some research of your own, social and economic inequalities should be arranged such that they are to be of greatest benefit to the least-advantaged members of society, and offices and positions must be open to everyone under conditions of fair equality of opportunity.
Or you could just keep getting angry and looking like the moron you suggest that OWS supporters are. Your call.
Yeah, I'm challenging to produce some intellectual thought. I'm sure you're capable of it; I mean you have a job, so I imagine you must be more intelligent and rational than an 18 year-old student.
Scared?
Look asshole. I could care less about what the fuck you lazy slobs want. I worked my whole life. I went in the Army, had lots of jobs, married, got a house and kids. I retired and now get by.
Never once in my life was I jealous cause my neighbor had a Caddy and I had a cheap Chevy. He made a lot of money and I couldn't care less, I didn't earn it so I didn't want his. I earned what I got.
You fucking snotnose scumbags think you know everything. A bunch of fucking hippies get together and want get free school while the rest of us had to pay for it. You want to stop corruption in business? What about Democrats' and Obama's blantant corruption? You're hypocrites.
Michael Moore has 60 millions dollars. Celebrities and sports starts make millions upon millions. What about Soros and Buffet? You give them all a pass and want to hang a CEO who gets a 2 million dollar bonus. None of your fucking business, hypocrite.
You're studying in England. Wow, how fucking smart you must be. We should all change the world because the smart prick from NY who is studying in England knows all. I'm from Brooklyn and still live there. Only way I could get to England was on a boat going to serve overseas.
Who's paying for you way over there, 'currently studying in London', probably your mommy and daddy, right? Asshole.
You sad, bitter man.
Again, you fail to address the argument presented to you. Quite how you manage to do it every time astounds me. I urge you, before you get all angry and self-righteous with the name calling, read about John Rawls' Second Principle of Justice.
I find it deplorable that a man of your considerable age has failed to grasp the humility required to continue to learn. Instead, you seem hellbent on riding your beliefs till your death. That's your decision; but considering you have considerably less time on this earth than me, or most people in this movement, try not to ruin the future for us with your close-minded, negative, and hateful perspective. You may have been content to live the way that your parents taught you (fight for your country, get non-intellectually-stimulating jobs to pay off your mortgage, get married 'cause that's the way to happiness, and compel your children to embrace your cynical ideologies) all in an attempt to find happiness for yourself and a select number of people in your limited social circle, but some of us are actually concerned with the interests of society at large. Leave us in peace.
Oh, and just so you know, mommy and daddy are long dead. I'm just practicing the values that they instilled in me before they died—honesty, open-mindedness, humility, spiritual growth, and intellectual pursuit. I don't purport to having the answers; I do believe that we can find them, and OWS brings us closer, as it allows people from all walks of life to share their input.
And the fact that we're angering you justifies the movement, as it only shows that we're calling into question certain beliefs that you have held all your life; it's only natural you'd defend them to the bitter end.
And instead of speaking in your Fox News rhetoric, I'd appreciate some concrete examples and argumentation for the conclusions that you so desperately want me to accept.
Ass—no wait. I'm not gonna stoop to your level. That would be childish. I wonder which of us needs to grow up more. But at your age, I'm sure standing up is difficult enough, let alone growing up. So I'll keep growing, and learning, and sharing my beliefs, and allowing them to be questioned, and welcoming open discourse. You can sit on your couch watching Limbaugh and Beck pervert and distort your view on reality; don't forget your six-pack of Budweiser. You'll need it to forget the fact that you've been comprehensively outsmarted by a "fucking snotnose scumbag" with decades less life experience, and more than a fair share of God-given, public-school educated intellect.
Peace out, homeboy. Cheers on your retirement.
I agree with you. However they are not dumb just misguided.
IGNORE
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Honestly , If Ows got power upon America, it could damage all the world. Iam sorry to say that.
if you understand what damage the american government has done world-wide in the last 50 yrs. you would retract your statement. if you need some info read noam chomsky's hopes and prospects it is a shocking collection of damage done by the usa
"Meet the new boss Same as the old boss."
"Free your mind and your ass will follow"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiqmEibSY0I