Forum Post: "What type of Adult Votes for Lesser of Two Evils"... G. Celente
Posted 12 years ago on April 15, 2012, 10:44 p.m. EST by hchc
(3297)
from Tampa, FL
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Good point Gerald.
What a pathetic country this is indeed.
I am more worried about the 20-30% who vote for the greater of two evils and are even willing to vote against their own self interests to do it. This includes the Tea Party and several other organizations.
The country isn't pathetic but too many of the people are.
"What a pathetic county this is indeed." (?) Tampa?
The "type of Adult" who Votes for the Lesser of Two Evils is a loaded and misleading statement without followup or question without a question mark.
Assuming it's a question, it has to be clarified that "Evil" refers to flaws, and the framing of the question suggests that there are choices for Adults to Vote for that/who are evil free, or don't have flaws; which suggests that there are choices that/who are perfect. But perfection does not exist, anywhere. So every vote is a choice of lesser evil, providing every voter had all the facts relating to the choice. And then there is the morass of voter intent and voter morals. In short, to the extent that it is a "Type," Every Adult who Votes is the answer.
are we supposed to be voting for good?
too bad good is a subjective term.
it's good when people help each other
Helping other people can be considered getting gov't out of the way so the private sector can employ them and not spend their time paying scores of taxes. At least that's the argument. Are we to label that argument evil so we can believe our argument is good? Again, good is a subjective term. but helping your fellow man is good, it is just that "helping" is also subjective. Some would say a hand out is not helpful, where as making a person self sufficient is very helpful. Though i believe this line is just a political talking point made by those who don't need help, it is still a concept that resonates with a lot of people who believe they are helping.
helping is not subjective
Let's keep voting for better and watch much much better evolve.
Unite and Win! Unite and Win! 2010 Never EVER Again!!
There's no question here. Its a statement.
Equally flawed.
Politics is a journey....
Let me know when you are where Im at...
Tampa!
If YOU Don't Vote, YOU Don't Count!!
No more keys for GOPs!!
If you vote for one of two warmongering parties, you are fine with the innocent people dying.
There are more than two choices, ya know. Just because the rest of the morons will flock to one bomb dropping corner or another bomb dropping corner doesnt mean you have to join em.
We got here by decades of voter negligence, it will take decades of voter diligence to get us up on high ground. But there will always be problems and mistakes. Right now we are suffering from the ill-doings of the truly evil whom we have let takeover to a very disturbing degree.
We need to vote those against the people out.
I would fire them all and replace with no party affiliations only.
Not the world we live in.
Don't show up late in the game and bitch about the uniforms!!
The world we live is bullshit, and thinking like that is a GUARANTEE that nothing will ever change.
Things dont change because people accept the status quo. They get pissed off. They get active. They hit the streets.
Glad you love the wars so much. Sell out.
I guess UR just too far ahead of me.
I'll keep trying to catch up.
You're record is skipping. You're record is skipping. You're record is skipping. Tape a dime to the tone arm.
This is getting close to spamming, you know.
You're one trick pony, is about tricked out.
The current tactic of the tools of the 1% is to push this BS incessantly, for one thing to distract us from their effort to propogandize women against their completely correct disgust with the Republican Party.
This guys gone boop shooby!!
If you disagree with him? You're a "war mooongering sheep."
It's about the only thing he says anymore, except for some vague support of libe(R)tarians.
Well, aren't all the usual suspects blubbering on this same theme now to one degree or another. Karl Rove calls them talking points and we heard nothing but for the 8 nausiating years of the Bush installment. I guess some people feel inherently worthless enough that they'll sell their souls darn cheap.
It felt like when the "systems corrupt, don't vote" thing fell flat, they fell back and came up the "war" angle as a way to pin it on the Dems.
They completely ignore the fact that we've been messing in the Middle East all way back to the 50s, if not WW II.
There's a history there that's being ignored, and it's a complicated one that would be hard to address in a venue like this.
The repercussions of a fast, unprepared pullout would be vast.
They make themselves so obvious by all jumping on the same topics in unison the way they do, and they all have the same underlying message - "Whatever you do, don't vote Democrat."
That in itself should be enough for us to see their game.
Shit, I saw that 6 mos ago.
You and me ain't no spring chickens around here........:)
You should have been here this afternoon, I even got shadow banned for a while. It was rather busy.
Yeah, damn, who lifted the rock?!!
Maybe the teabaggers put out a new training video.
I should check out some of the wrong wing web sites, to what they're cooking up, but I always feel dirty afterwards, and I hate giving their sites the hit.
Asking the people to rise up and create something of their own is spamming?
You are a tool for the establishment, arent you? You little sell out.
Go back where its safe and let the real adults put themselves out there for change. Besides, the media needs minds like yours to keep going.
I think you should go back to your safe little teabagger hole and keep hating.
It's what you do best. Other than repeat yourself, without a lick of understanding.
Did you check out the link I gave you on Rick Scott malfeasance, or do you vote for the teabagin' A hole.
I can't believe you stuck up for him, and have the F'in nerve to call me a sellout.
OK; back to you.
Rinse, lather, repeat.
Please refer to other thread
I agree with hchc. Its a statement.
Without knowing exactly what Mr. Celente is thinking, I suspect he means that a lot of people are being conned into thinking that the one party system is a two party system.
What would Obama do in term two? He wouldn't have to worry about being re-elected that's for sure... but would that mean he would start taking away more freedoms and renewing more Bush policies? or would that mean he would start keeping good on his election promises? who knows. You never can tell when you're dealing with a liar.
In an election, like so many since 2004, where Republicon candidates and policies are so widely (and WISELY) detested, cheating (Voter Suppression and Election Fraud), conning (hate and lie propaganda and promoting the both parties are the same theory) and discouraging (legislative sabotage, filibustering and do-nothing) are the only ways GOPers stand a chance.
Just one difference: Republicons voted against the Buffet Rule, Dems voted for it. More Evil prevailed again. Elections have consequences.
Register and Vote! Register and Vote! "We the 1%" NOT What They Wrote!!
You know one thing I really like about Celente? He knows how to spot an obvious trend.
If take a step back and look at 1980-2012, the tend is pretty obvious. Its been a steady downward spiral that is now culminating with massive unemployment, and local law enforcement which obviously preparing to quell inevitable social unrest.
Voting one way or the other, it might delay the trend 4 years, but only because the democratic "brand" positioning requires that it position itself more to the apparent left of the republican brand. In other words, they are less flagrant, and they fuck things up slower; but the end result will be exactly the same.
Since 1980, the RW (mainly Republicons) have conducted an all out Blitzkrieg against America, and while the country and Americans have suffered the terrible consequences of this dramatic move to the right, the greed-addled few in the 1% who employ Republcons, have prospered wildly.
Unite and Win! 2010 Never EVER Again!!
You and your anonymous prophets. Who the hell ever heard of the guy, and who cares.
Anonymous prophets?
He's not a prophet, he's been accurately predicting financial trends for like 30 years. He's not anonymous either, he's quite well recognized in his field.
Plus I don't need him to point out the obvious; and the trend is blatantly obvious to anyone with a whiff of economic know-how and political history, and it ain't gonna be reversing itself. There is a reason local police departments are getting fancy new toys like sound cannons, tanks, and microwave guns...
How about that new 2 Billion dollar data center in Nevada Obama is building? I thought the TSA was doing a great job feeling up old ladies, why do they need that?
Actually, Obama isn't building it, the Federal Government is building it. Obama isn't a king in control of everything that happens in Washington. He is just a figurehead as long as the Nutcase Right has control of legislation. Strange how you blame all this Republican legislation on Obama.
He should veto this garbage, but then he would be blamed for gridlock by the sold-out, corporate-owned, American-garbage, right-wing media nut-fucks.
Ya know, I usually agree with most of what you post on here, but not this one.
That's like saying George Bush was not responsible for what the Federal Government did post 9/11. Double standard.
Obama should quit being such a wuss and use his veto and other administrative powers, someone who stands by and lets it happen is no better than someone who makes it happen.
Who cares what he is blamed for? and why don't the republicans have to worry about being blamed for anything?
Seems its only democrats who worry, and I strongly believe its just a convenient excuse. "Oh.. I would have liked to do something... but you know those republicans, they would complain about it." No shit, that's politics; but he should stick to his principles (if he actually has any).
I believe you are about 50% right here. The Democrats haven't been real Democrats for a long time. Changing that is the first order of business in my opinion. What we are trying to do will take time, patience and a willingness to do whatever's necessary to wrest control of our government back:)
to me first order is get rid of the GOP, otherwise they take advantage of all we do
EXACTLY! They HAVEthe power! THEY are the system!
Agree. I hope OWS inspires some of them to be less like republicans.
Patience is a virtue they say, but I'll have to admit for someone like me who has had ideals similar to OWS for so long... this sort of rally against government corruption thing isn't something new to me, government corruption is something I'm quite tired of already... :p
I'm with you there! It's damned hard to have patience, but it looks like it will take an all out push for a few years to get this done. I'm holding out hopes that May 1 will change the equasion. Lets hope for a HUGE national strike!
seems you need someone to point some stuff as you completely missed that real wage increased under Clinton, it's people like you that give no credit when people do some good, that cause less good to be done, why don't you either open your eyes or tell the truth
I liked Clinton, but he was also responsible for the deregulation of the financial system. I appreciate he was the only peace time president also, and I found him really amusing. He also tended to veto anti-union legislation.
I would take Clinton over Obama any day. However, he still contributed to the slow decline, it just didn't happen as fast. Things are not going to get better without a real change, just worse slower.
some of that is why I was for Hillary, but we are where we are
These four men REQUIRE that you vote for Obama
If you don’t believe them,
…….ask Newt Gingrich or John McCain about Citizens United
OR
…….ask the family of any soldier killed in Iraq about bush v Gore
OR
Are you afraid to
……tell me why supreme court appointments make no difference ?
……tell me why ( roberts + alito ) = ( sotomayor & kagan ) ?
If you cannot see the difference between the democrats and the Rs –
.……and believe that President Gore would invade Iraq,
…….or that President Gore would NOT read his PDBs –
…………..………………………………………………..you are blind
If you want to do what Davis & Lee failed to do
……………..……………………………………….…….you are crazy
Just because Scalia and Thomas take koch brothers money – you don’t have to
There's a cadre of people here, that just don't want to believe that. I know this alone, is reason enough.
I wonder why they think it doesn't matter?
I have posted this question many times - NEVER got a straight answer.
I suspect that some are paulist libertarians who hate all government
some or Rs trolls
some are Obama haters who can't accept an African-American as their "boss"
some are liberals/progressives who are fed up with Obama's compromises after electing him to be the "progressive king" who had the power to do anything. These are the people who saw Obama as their last best hope and who are letting their anger at him become irrational votes against him. .
Is it not more irrational to vote for the dems again, after they took power and just continued the anti-democratic rethug policies, and even expanded them with more drone murders, sweeping new powers for the police/state, and they continue to push the corporate bankster agenda. How does voting FOR that make any rational sense at all?? Sure it is the lesser evil when compared to the 'other party', however; the lesser of two evils is still EVIL!
The point people are making when we say not to participate in that broken-assed system, is that when you vote for the lesser of the two evil options, you are supporting that evil.., The lesser evil is only provided for the illusion of choice.
We suggest; turning your back on that system entirely and beginning to build alternatives. You can not vote this two-party-pendulum-swinging system out of existence, as they will never present that option. However, when enough people ignore them, stop voting, stop paying taxes, etc., and actively construct democratic consensus democracy, and alternative systems,. the real democracy will win, not the elite ruling by myth of democracy, but an actual functioning participatory democratic reality.
I know many people so fear change that they will opt to stay with the old abusive, oppressive, and destructive gov. like an abused lover, the pain they know is preferable to the unknown. This is no surprise as one of the main functions of the old system is to paint people as the rulers in a classic case of transference, the media and gov. would have you believe that we are all like the 0.1% greedy and out of control. However, reality is that the vast majority of people are very reasonable, and do not have the inexorably greedy mindset of the 0.1% this too is a lie, meant to keep you from seeking change.
Vote for obama if you must (he is the lesser evil), just do not expect any positive change, as none will be forthcoming. (but still evil!)
Who's "they?" The Tea Party Republicans won huge in the last election. What are you even talking about?
Obama had the house AND the presidency for two years, and failed to get anything done. Was that an accident? No, there is no intention of change, none.
They always talk a good game, and then they take power, and like frodo's ring, they are controlled by power,. not the people. We will never get democracy from a system that does not promote it. The system must be changed if we are to experience democracy first hand.
How?
how many filabuster were they? we have to crush the GOP, that's the first step
This may be the important thing of all. Infecting the State courts has been a priority all along. Keeping SCOTUS as unbalanced as they can is necessary to take the public eye off that fact.
A rather effective strategy, that has helped the (R)epelican'ts get around State constitutions in order to serve their agenda.
In how many States do they even have to declare party affiliation?
Wow, a lot of fallacies here. Where should I start?
"If you cannot see the difference between the democrats and the Rs – .……and believe that President Gore would invade Iraq, …….or that President Gore would NOT read his PDBs – …………..………………………………………………..you are blind"
Who would have thought during his campaign Obama would go into Libya and escalate the war in Afghanistan?
"…….ask the family of any soldier killed in Iraq about bush v Gore"
No one has died in any of Obama's continued and new wars? I'm not talking about just Americans either.
"Are you afraid to ……tell me why supreme court appointments make no difference ? ……tell me why ( roberts + alito ) = ( sotomayor & kagan ) ?"
Obama wants to do away with the balance of powers between the Legislative, Judicial, and Executive. I would rather have some lousy, conservative judges over an Obama dictatorship.
" If you don’t believe them, …….ask Newt Gingrich or John McCain about Citizens United"
Ask Obama about the NDAA, his votes for the bailouts, and his continued dismissal of the Glass-Steagall Act as real reform for the economy. If all you are concerned with is Citizens United, you ignore the myriad of other corporate/political problems that Obama has supported!
And Obama ate the Easter bunny
And Obama is a Muslim
You did not answer my questions "Are you afraid to ……tell me why supreme court appointments make no difference ? ……tell me why ( roberts + alito ) = ( sotomayor & kagan ) ?"
There's two other very important branches of government that write laws and enforces them; one of them is occupied by a madman and the other is occupied by traitors and cowards; and your only focus is on the Supreme Court. Are you mad?
When will the president & congress be gone? When will the "fab" five be gone - 20 years minimum Thanks for asking - yes -
I'm mad at citizens united & bush v Gore and I'm at all of the corporate power the activist judges have given to them Do you think bush v Gore was correctly decided?
I think Gore is a stooge of the Club of Rome and Bush was a stooge of the neo-cons... We didn't have much of a choice in 2000.
I'm more pissed about Obama getting the Democratic nomination over Hillary, even though that's in the past now too.
"What kind of adult votes for the greater of two evils?"
Or votes in such a way as to allow the greater "evil" to prevail?
Isn't that sort of like doing nothing?
Isn't that what allows "evil" to prevail?
Well said . . . "All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." That is why the evil here are desperately trying to convince us to do nothing (other than squabble amongst each other).
I been trying to do stuff.
I went to OccupyDetroit over the weekend and had a tasty ox roast dinner........:) Bought a fashionable T shirt and gave a donation.
I hope to attend some GAs over the summer, and maybe a march or two.
Great! I would be more personally active if I didn't live somewhere so remote, and will be the first chance I get. I figure right now the most effective thing I personally can do is contribute here. I'm getting a bit past my prime, but I still hope to get the chance to march. I used to do a lot of protesting. Lots of times there were just three or four of us out there. It sure would be great to go to a protest in America with real numbers of people. That is empowering.
WE all do what we can, my friend.....................:)
That's how it works. That's how we move it forward.
You've been a fine supporter in this forum, that's for sure!
Thanks, and you're right; we must encourage everyone to "fight" this "Plutonomy" as CitiCorp called it, in whatever means are at the individual's disposal:)
Come down to Charlotte for the DNC. Things are not going to be pretty.
Cool. Tit for tat. Give 'em hell harry.
But don't let it backfire on you.
Make it big, make it loud, but most of all make it peaceful.
Hint, The sound cannon, they are rumored to be planning to use, I believe, uses a constant tone. Find the frequency and cancel it with a resonant frequency. Put your MP3 players to work for you.
No tit for tat. They both get bashed.
Nice tip on for the sound cannons. I'll be doing my research.
Sorry, I sometimes confuse my pre-packaged adages.
Try this one.
If it's good for the goose, it's good for the gander.
Good. There are plenty of us that are going to leave Tampa, after bashing the shit out of the Republicans, and heading to Charlotte for pretty much the EXACT SAME THING.
Fuck em all.
Charlotte will be a different scene then Tampa and the RNC. They have been keeping their plans quiet, while Tampa has been very open about the preps they are making:
http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/baybuzz/category/bay-buzz-tags/2012-republican-national-convention
I happen to think the difference is on a different order of magnitude.
Scalia, Thomas, Alito, Kennedy, Roberts
versus
Ginsburg, Sotomayor, Breyer, Kagan
That's not simply a comparison of greater and lesser evils, or of legislation that can be revisited with each successive congress, but of relatively good and absolute evil that will last a lifetime. When Ginsburg retires in the next term (as well as scores of federal judges) what kind of judges, serving for a lifetime, will be appointed depends on who is in the White House. I don't care if he's a complete douche as long as he doesn't appoint more like the first five.
Doing nothing to guarantee that won't happen is the doing nothing that you cite. Activism alone won't do it, since there is no viable 3rd party candidate running in the upcoming election. Pulling a lever for you-know-who is the only way for the time being, even if it means holding one's nose - tightly - while doing it.
And it does not take away from doing more, much more. (And doing much much more is critically necessary to ensure we never have to be faced with such a choice again.)
Like him or not, there's a lot more at stake here than just the Presidency.
Like I said before, ALEC has already bought off most of the State Supreme Court justices.
Don't be distracted by the federal circus. The States are where they are moving the hardest.
I agree that ALEC is pure evil incarnate. And the states are indeed under their sway. Keep in mind, though, that you are really talking about republican states almost entirely, though there is some overlap.
If you have read my recent posts, you'd know that I advocate for STRONG local and state level action.
But I couldn't disagree with you more about the critical importance of the federal level. Who decided Citizens United? WHere do contested state court decision end up? Who decided that the death penalty is constitutional. Who decided that women can't sue WalMart for sex discrimination, (and effects all class action suits that protect workers in the future) who decided that strip searches were OK for jaywalking or parking tickets? Who overturned Arizona's public campaign financing laws? Who made affirmative action illegal in state and private universities? Who is deciding the legality of the Affordable Care Act as we speak? And the split on these, and most other critically important, life-changing decisions that are also made by them has been CONSISTENTLY along party lines. These aren't only local (or state) issues decided at the local level. These are both local and national issues decided by the Supreme Court.
So yes, the local and state levels are important, but the federal one is even more so.
A person who already has the greater of two weavils and is trying to complete the set?
How about a pragmatic adult?
people who think logistically and not erratically vote for the lesser of two evils. Let me ask you one. Who believes that the term lesser of two evils actually means voting for evil? What type adult still believes in the term evil? Really, evil, believing in that is like believing in Santa. You do realize that Santa is a human concept to get kids to behave?
probability that a third party candidate will win. It does not mean there are evil people controlling our lives. They just got their priorities wrong. And that is where voting for politicians who stand a chance to win becomes crucial. Unless you can promise at least a quarter of the vote for your third party candidate, you are pissing in the wind. But please, prove me wrong, I'd love it. seriously, I would.
Both of us are pissing in the wind. You vote for a warmongering party (either one of them) and I dont.
Neither one of our votes matters. Your guy wins, and we all get fucked because he's part of the time, tired two party bullshit.
Mine loses because the fuckin people are too dumb to wise up to the tricks and do something on their own.
The difference is one of us is endorsing war. The other isnt.
I'll give you that. You make a valid point. So while i ensure Republicans don't get reelected or elected, you can vote for the third party candidate. Who knows, maybe this will be the year that the third party protest vote hits critical mass.
It wont be. A quick tour around most political chat rooms shows that the people are still more concerned with attacking whom they dont vote for, than holding those they do accountable.
Now the average joe on the street, they are dying for something new to come along. But unfortunately, they arent usually the type to jump into politics.
Obama' s wars are internal. But every bit as evil.
This is a fun graphic for showing how little difference there is between Obama and Romney. http://www.voterocky.org/rocky_barack_mitt
Rocky is on point.
What type of person would get Nixon elected over HUmphrey because Humphrey wasn't "pure" enough?
What type of person would allow the Supreme Court to be packed with fascists because they disagree with some legislation?
Maybe someone who values their own self-righteousness above the greater good. Maybe someone who isn't intellectually formed enough to see shades of gray and can only perceive black and white. Maybe someone who insists on creating false choices and doesn't understand that one can vote to hold off the greater evil and STILL be an activist pursuing real change at the same time.
Would like the list of voters, because a ton go for the socialist party and the socialist workers party. They vote for what they believe in. Same for Green. And the Reform and the Libertarians.
We could have a good debate, good governing in this country if you fuckin morons would stop voting for the two fascist ones.
God sheep like you piss me off. You only fuck it up for the ones that try to get some change.
Couldn't have said it better.
These fuckers on here are dumb as shit. It didnt used to be like this when this thing started. This was a great place to discuss out with the old, in with the new, what should it look like, etc.
Now its just fuckin hacks that are simply going to vote for the duopoly. Cant fuckin stand it.
yes i know im very sad about this i wish people were more open on this forum
It was freakin great when it started. Its a mess now. Its freakin embarrassing. I cant believe the amount of fear and pro-establishment nonsense.
Just more divisive media shit. But I can assure you it wasnt always like this.
It'll probably get worse the closer to November we get.
it will get beyond worse
Don't get discouraged, though. The end result will be worth the pain (I hope).
i just want one thing and that is money out of politics.
That's a perfect start. We have strayed a bit, haven't we? Need to get back on track.
yes we have i really think we we just do that things will fall into line.
i know even though it says i joined late i've been following this movement since day one.
i want it to go back to just getting money out of politics and none of this other bullshit
Me too. Its hard to be against money in politics and then see all these people who claim to be too, going and endorsing one of these two jack ass parties that is already bought out.
i know its pitiful to see people do that
Yeah, and a lot of good splitting the Democratic vote did, too, didn't it? Helped GW Bush get into office. Would we have gone into Iraq without him? Congratulations. As you said on another thread, "Bombs Away."
And by the way, most of the ten thousand people on the Brooklyn Bridge were regular voters, who are part of OWS, and who will not be stupid enough to assist Romney in gaining power. Keep alienating the masses who support OWS, and are a part of OWS. Make sure it withers insignificance, and complete ineffectiveness. Keep working to make sure this movement fails.
Extremists like you piss everybody off.
Scalia, Thomas, Alito, Roberts, Kennedy. Make sure they are joined by many more like them. What an effective activist plan for change!
I havent been on here much over the past three months, and sheep like you seem to be multiplying. Im not arguing with you anymore.
You vote for who you want to. Do your thing. Have fuckin fun you sell out.
Have fun strengthening the fascists and killing OWS, you elitist.
They are both fascists you dumb motherfucker. How hard do you have to get fucked to see that?
What the hell, I have never seen a dumber motherfucker that cant see hes part of the fuckin problem. Go vote for em. Endorse em. Fuck it, go fucking campaign for em. bombs away you fuckin sell out.
So Obama has supported Occupy? I'm just asking for clarification of what you posted. Or are you saying that both parties are worthless?
No, one party is worthless, the other is fucking dangerous. And no is is asking OWS to support anyone. But I AM saying that encouraging the defeat of Obama - for all his sins - is encouraging the win of much MUCH greater evil. The difference is not even close.
Judge Ginsburg is about to retire. She is already in the minority in the Supreme court. But encouraging tactics that will help a Romney gain office, one is making sure of more people on the court like Scalia, Thomas, Alito, Roberts, or Kennedy. Instead of a (bad enough) 5/4 court, split precisely along party lines, we would be left with a 6/3 court or even a 7/2 one if Breyer joins Ginsburg in retirement. It would take a LIFETIME to change that, if ever. Currently, 55% of federal judges are registered Republicans. That can change either to 70% or a far better 40% in the next few years, depending on who is in office. And if you look at their actual rulings, you would see that in this area - perhaps the only area that remains - there is a real and significant difference between the two parties. And only one is clearly fascist in terms of the courts.
It is not the only reason I oppose helping a Romney, Cantor, Boehner, win by default, but it is by far the biggest one.
Presidents and congresses come and go. Their policies and laws change relatively quickly. But federal judges serve lifetime terms, and can't be booted out of office due to dissatisfaction.
THat said, I absolutely DON'T suggest that real, genuine activism shouldn't continue and escalate. It must. Fundamental change is necessary, and that won't happen via current party politics insulated from the anger of the people. But abdicating the process, or pushing an agenda that insures even worse lives for everyone WHILE WE CONTINUE AND STRENGTHEN our engagement in activism is simply irresponsible.
Okay, I understand. Thanks. And I didn't say that OWS needed to support someone. I was just going to say that Obama has been relatively mum about OWS.
Quite a tirade. You do realize you missed the whole point? Or is it on purpose?
No, this thread is a continuation of another one, and you missed the earlier discussion. Hchc started this one in order to make a strong statement to get allies for his position on the other thread. It was a tactic, and a pretty intellectually dishonest one.
So what other option is there?
Keep doing what we are doing in Occupy. Direct Actions against the powers that be. Promos to draw attention to the people's role in it, usually rampant blinded consumerism. And sooner or later something will happen and we can form something that is truly representative of the people.
Im not sure what that will look like, but its no great conspiracy that these two current powers are in bed with the banks and corporations, not us.
Promote third parties and individual candidates outside the duopoly. Promote being wise with ones money. Promote that things are changing, and people need to decide what side of the fence they will want to be known as sitting on.
what "County" do you live in ?
Oops, well thanks for noticing. It got past me and probably everyone else.
I dont see too many here not jumping on a mistake like that :)
What I meant to show in my initial response was how poorly the "Statement" or "Question" was made, and what pseudo profundity it was awarded.
Loud and clear red flags of the Right. Half-baked, clumsy with malapropisms, non sequiturs and misnomers. A tossed rightist cliche and talking point salad. But there is a point where Rightists and Anarchists meet.
I wonder if they know who Sinclair Lewis was?
[Removed]
Why get hung up with voting for evil or really evil? My suggestion is go out and vote for whatever is on the ballot. It's fun, and it is truly better to have to deal with evil rather than really evil. But solving the issues here in the U.S.A. takes serious civil action way beyond merely casting a ballot. That is what we all ought be focusing on rather than getting hung up on a vote.
(May I suggest reading "Guerilla Warfare" by Che Guevara)
You are right. And that is why I always liked the saying "There is no political solution to a cultural problem".
The entire country is reckless with their cash, and no amount of legislation is going to make things better when the only things we value are consumer goods.
Yes, I can't help but to resonate the message more. We're all hung up with the antics of the 1%, the banks, and the quisling politicians, but before we can address that, and the reason why they get away with what they do, is first doing away with the irresponsibility and selfishness in ourselves.
Someone down pointed me for saying that we value consumer goods too much, and until we figure out what matters, nothing is going to change.
This is the ignorance we are fighting.
maybe it's a way to justify evil like war as good
Yup
Sometimes I wonder... voting for the lesser of two evils just means less freedoms will be taken this term, there might be a few less wars this term... maybe not.
If its all going to crap anyway, maybe just speed the process along and get it over with, then when Mittens runs the country into the ground people will be ready for a fresh start...
Very well stated. Unfortunately too many of the so-called " independents" believe in it. And that is why nothing is going to get any better in this nation.