Forum Post: What is the Mormon mafia?
Posted 11 years ago on Oct. 12, 2012, 4:01 a.m. EST by arturo
(3169)
from Shanghai, Shanghai
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
According to historian and economist, Webster Tarpley, the Mormon mafia is a strata of Mormons embedded within the CIA and FBI:
Joseph Smith’s White Horse Prophecy for World Conquest Makes Romney a More Dangerous Warmonger Than George W. Bush
He also explains the long history of Mormonism as an anti-American movement.
His new book, Just too Weird, explains more:
Researcher warns against the horrors of Mormonism.
Tarpley reveals that Mormonism, Mitt Romney's tradition, is not actually a religion but a synthetic ideology sponsored by British intelligence, as part of their campaign of covert warfare against the United States.
The first Civil War took place in 1857 when the Mormons in Utah attempted to secede. Utah was selected as a strategic location which would break the United States in two between east and west.
The Romney family later moved to Mexico to avoid the ban on polygamy in the US.
To their credit most Americans believe in religious tolerance and separation of church and state. They find it unseemly to attack a candidate based on his religion. However, Mormonism is not actually a religion but a subversive political party that has donned the disguise of a religion for protection.
Even if it is a religion, a Mormon should not be holding high political and ecclesiastical offices at the same time.
Mitt Romney's loyalties are first and foremost to the Mormon cult, which is also fundamentally Zionist. Romney and Netanyahu are old friends.
I am an ex Mormon but this is a bunch of BS. Tarpley is not know for his credibility.
I read there are a lot of Catholics and Protestants in the CIA and FBI. They infiltrated the ranks of these organizations slowly and steadily over time.
The Italian, Irish and Russian Mafias are all Catholic.
The Presbyterian and Methodist cults have their roots in Judaism as well.
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Then you were Ostricized, I guess. Is there a mechanism within Mormonism for you to have studied and questioned the legacy? I don't know the answer here. Women do different things than the men at times. I guess if you are a student at BYU there would have been a lot of historical documents for women to look at in their Library.
Some conspiracies don't last long. But the conspiracies held by the Mormons were about their own practices, beliefs, values, etc. The Mormons are probably still very insular, private, and opaque.
Mormons, Catholic pedophilia, Boy Scouts Pedophilia, free masons, skull and bones, corporations and shell companies, the Vatican, English History, US History of its government and covert operations ... all kind of prove conspiracies.
Ostracized and then tracked. Paperwork? Yep.You don't need to be a student at BYU to get access. In fact, one of my great uncles worked right along J Smith. He is mentioned extensively.
This right here.....not credible. I have no problem hammering at LDS but this isn't it.
It is funny strange that the organization disowns a person, then wants to track them, gather intel on them, or whatever. Clearly, that is a Patriarchical org that is very controlling. But maybe not overtly controlling since you say everyone has access to libraries. Controlling when you oppose the church?
Would you say covertly controlling? I suppose all families are subtley controlling if not overtly controlling. So it starts to get complex.... Authoritarian, Authoritative, Liberal... Certain Values would be absolute in LDS.
It is a very heavy patriarchal cult. If all of the people that you interact with and all of the activities that you participate in are tied into LDS, is it necessary to control access to libraries? No. If you can create a distrust or fear of other cultures, ethnicities, lifestyles etc., you don't need to. Women are at once held responsible and have no control.
It isn't complex at all. Look people push this crap, as LetsGetReal notes, and the truth doesn't get out. In fact, it does more damage. It does nothing more than provide ammunition for LDS folk to say how off track outsiders are. People that are trying to get out, considering getting out then won't. You push, they pull.
Yes, that makes sense. And I think I understand being held responsible, but not having control. I think I have felt out of control a lot in my years.
I mean that you do not have the authority to control and are held responsible for the actions or inactions and emotions of a husband.
Tarpley is a respected journalist, featured on a number of alternative news programs. Maybe the mainstream media doesn't recognize him as credible, but the mainstream media is one of the main sources of our economic and political problems today.
No. He isn't credible because he is bat shit crazy.
Considering that your statement is nothing more than a derogatory insult, it tells me much more about you than it does about Tarpley.
The fact that you considered him to be credible to begin with tells me..........ah, you know what? This stuff makes you really happy. You go on with your conspiracy stuff all you want, sweet pea.
I can't say that it makes me happy, if fact, it makes me quite sad.
But I love it when you call me sweat pea...
Why? Is it because you go so far out there that the only response possible is to defend a position that one would not ordinarily hold and this then neutralizes Romney's association with Mormons?
Is it because we participate at all?
No, what I meant to say is that conspiracies make me sad.
This site is full if batshit crazy references, how is that batshit crazy one any different ?
Conspiracy? For real?
Batshit crazy
What Romney's religious beliefs are is irrelevant. One religion/cult is as nutty as the next, don't you think? The bigger problem with this guy is his utter lack of compassion and empathy for anyone in a lesser situation than himself.
Also Romney being a warmonger is common knowledge.
It's not part of a secret faux religion conspiracy.
Exactly! I forgot that part!
they're all from harvard
Too funny!
I agree with you that the glaring problem with Romney isn't his religion. As an ex-mormon, I assure you that no, one religion isn't as nutty/culty as the next. When I call the mormon church a cult, it is not because of their beliefs, it is because they use methods of persuasive coercion, emotional manipulation and group pressure in a way not seen in most churches.
That is really too bad, but I think there is a degree of that in most religions, even the big ones, but probably worse in some, as you say. Good for you for overcoming that.
Amen!
It's really a shame that this sort of rubbish is out there. I'm an ex-mormon and I think the mormon church is a damaging, cultish religion, but the truth about the church is bad enough. No need to resort to sensationalism and half-truths.
Most of my family is still mormon, and many mormons point to this sort of obviously exaggerated material to shore up their sense of being persecuted.This leads to them automatically dismissing factually correct materials. Ironically, people like Tarpley make it more difficult for the truth about mormonism to be exposed.
For the record, I would never vote for Mitt Romney, but that's not because he's mormon.
There are numerous anti-American entities within America, such as Wall Street, that derive their anti-American orientation from their historical relationship to the British empire. Mormonism is similarly such an entity, which did indeed receive British support.
I grew up in an area where numerous Mormons lived and had a number of them as good friends. That doesn't change the historical orientation of their church though. My experience with Tarpley is that he generally is reliable.
Why not dig a little deeper and confirm his conclusions.
Thanks for the good suggestion. I generally spend quite a bit of my time in the process of digging deeper.
How are things going in China?
Not bad thank for me thanks. But, the global economic downturn is effecting people here as well. To give an example, I have a student who works in the coal industry, and overall coal consumption is down, because the factories that consume a lot of the electricity generated by coal are getting fewer and fewer orders from the west.
How are things in Sun City?
We're still picking up from the very severe house price collapse. About 13% unemployment now, down from a peak of 15%. In 2006 it was 4.5%.
Our elections, Germany's (who is running Europe) and China's elections are all coming up at the end of this year. I think after that after all the same faces and whatnot are in there for a bit, early 2013, we are going to take a big plunge to about 18% UE.
That's too bad, I hope it gets better.
You made a good statement. I don't know if I would use the cult word since it is pretty edgey to a lot of people. I wouldn't say Zionist either. Normally I would say that Mormons defend their homes and might think it foolish to fight in foreign wars. I don't excuse Romney from dodging the draft - he gives up the high ground when he wants to be President. He looks like an an opportunistic politician having avoided the Vietnam War. It should be about Romney's Character, but there are some things that can be brought out about Cultural differences in the Morman church.
Romeny seems to be a patriarch. He is very much the one to make judgements and you don't get to judge him. I guess that is form being strong, but also from being in charge for 25-30 years. I think it is fair to say Romney doesn't seem to be a true Religious man. It seems more important to be in charge than to be a Morman. He is an authority figure. Not sure if Obama is a religious man, probably he is eclectic in his beliefs and flexible rather than being a 100% Christian. Certainly Obama is an oppportunist as well since he has become some kind of puppet.
The Culture of a Church is to separate itself from others in many cases. Might be more true in the US that say buddhists or Hindis in India or Asia. I'm sure the Mormons met hardship and prejudice, but they had each other. And in a close church... you hire other Mormons for jobs or work that comes up. And of course we don't know what goes on inside the church, so we might feel left out. But isolated people will change and be different also.
Could be we would admire some of the practices of the Mormons like to have wards and have separate times where men and women are in their own groups. Most in the US like to have control over knowing what is happening with people around them... We have a control culture. And these people will call something different a cult. Why are the women separated are they being brain washed? Well people have been trying to brainwash me for years with mixed results...
In the end I sort of believe the part of Mormons in the FBI & CIA. I've seen some Catholics in the US Government. They like a tight ship. But Catholics and Jesuits have a checkered past in human rights or individual rights. Also I sort of believe English men would plot a US Civil War. But Mormons could be discrete by nodding to Englsih while hold back judgement and building allies. I'm just speculating here.
There are subcultures in the US. Chruches are part of that. Fundamentalist are also hard to deal with at times. I do respect people that live a better life without alcohol, wear clean clother, try to look bathed and neat. Ties are good. Education is good. How do we judge people? Anyway we can get a way with. But it is better to judge people by the values that we think are important.
Integrated Cultures seem better. Malaysia, India are really melting pots with lots of tolerance. But there are income gaps in all countries... And corruption is a big issue in India.
At least with that last sentence Arturo proves he is an equal oppurtunity bigot. He hates Mormons and Jews.
My Jewish friends would think that's pretty funny. I discuss these issues quite openly with them from time to time and they've never considered me to hate Jews.
What do your Mormon friends say?
They were friends in high school, haven't seen them for many years.
I'm a person of German heritage. If someone tells me bad things about the Nazi's, I'm not going to deny it and call them "anti-Germanic". Although I may point out that Hitler was financed by Wall Street.
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if you were running for office and your opponent brought up the Nazis because of your heritage would that just be critical thinking on their part?
If I was a member of a neo-Nazi group, it would most definitely be critical thinking.
Let's see what the investigators turn up. If i remember correctly, the Germans had it in for some different religions too. Strange coincidence.
And most importantly, don't forget the role of Wall Street in the rise of Hitler:
Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler http://www.reformed-theology.org/html/books/wall_street/
Forget that. You having German blood in you gives me a lot of insight. Now i understand where this anti-Mormon stuff is all coming from.
So you blame my blood eh? And you are calling me a racist? Pathetic.
No, he's calling your guilty by relation/association. The Germans were easily "brainwashed" by the "propaganda and lies" of Hitler and others in their society. You've gone on and on about how "most people are brainwashed" and "deluded". Based on your "heritage" alone you surely must be too!!
See how easy it would be to stuff you into some neat little package that isn't true in any way? That's how stupid your arguments here about Mormons or other people look to everyone else.
Often, when I make a post here, I get a few people who tell me "thanks" or "great post". And, as you can see, this post has generated 141 comment in just a couple days. If just a few people appreciate what I say, that's all that matters.
You should be happy that people like me are still permitted free speech.
A few people WILL appreciate what you say. The rest of them are smarter than that.
If this thread generated 4000 comments it wouldn't make your accusations any more true. You accept that don't you?
I defend your right to speak freely even if I don't agree with anything you say. The more you freely speak, the more evidence you provide that proves you are willing to lie and deal in falsehoods if it suits your purpose.
Glad to hear you support my freedom to speak freely.
I love your freedom to speak freely. Makes me and my friends laugh. BTW, I wanted to ask you, since you believe
"Nothing bigoted about investigating the background of a presidential candidate, a dirty job, but someone has to do it."
did you investigate all that Obama birther and being a Muslum stuff? Really go all Woodward and Bernstein and dig up the dirt? I mean, someone had to do it, why not you? Or did you just dismiss it as partisan BS?
I'd like to see Obama impeached. More for the crimes that he has committed, as opposed to his background.
I don't see it that way.
Mormons, one of those unconscious groups http://i41.tinypic.com/a15nx3.jpg.
That's the best perspective, because it is an absolute, always, with no exception. We will be amazed when we learn how much can happen unconsciously which is not really an accident.
I never heard of a mormon mafia and Im mormon. Also, Im not voting for mitt romney.
A lot of Mormons that I have known, are fine people, so I mean no offense to you personally.
You're still going on with ridiculous conspiracy theories?
You've got -56 and you call me ridiculous?
Yes. I don't judge you from your score. I judge you from what you write.
I think the people here must be judging you from what you write as well.
Maybe, but I have a feeling that they don't. People who care about what others write don't spend time down voting and up voting. A lot of people here, like you, are obsessed with scores. I think most people here down vote my comments simply because I attack conspiracy theorists. However, it doesn't matter. If people don't like what I write that's OK with me. I respect their opinion (even though I know they are wrong, lol).
Anyhow, you would make a stronger argument if you replied to what I wrote and offered counter-arguments, instead of attacking me because of a score of -56. But, yeah, most people here don't discuss issues, they just down vote, up vote, or attack others when they see a low score, or a new creation date. That's the nature of this forum, so it's not surprising you play by those rules.
I think people here vote you down because your attacks are mostly thoughtless.
For example, this all got started with your "logic through labeling" approach of calling conspiracies "ridiculous".
I don't really care why people vote me down, it doesn't mean my arguments are less valid, it just means they are less popular. So what?
Conspiracy theories are ridiculous. They are ridiculous by definition. On top of that, you use this particular conspiracy theory to attack Mormons. That is despicable. You're whole game is based on using lame sources like LaRouche.
I honestly believe you are here to discredit Occupy by making it look like Occupy supporters are supporters of ludicrous conspiracy theories, like 911 Trutherism, or this lame Mormon conspiracy you talk of.
Essentially, what you are doing is attacking Mormons without any evidence for you claims, but lame assumptions. That's despicable.
So what? So your arguments are neither popular nor valid.
There is no logic in the statement that conspiracy theories are ridiculous by definition. Why do you think we have an intelligence agency if there were no external entities engaged in conspiracies against America? Why would there be laws against conspiracy if there were no such thing as conspiracies? Your logic evades me because it is nonexistent.
Calling Larouche "lame" contains no logic nor evidence, its just senseless name calling, more appropriate for a playground than a debate among adults.
No evidence about Mormons you say? There was:
Mormon Oath of Vengeance, which was nothing less than a pledge to God to carry out an implacable hereditary vendetta of blood atonement against the United States of America and its people to avenge the slaying of the Mormon Prophet Joseph Smith in 1844
Brigham Young, who ordered the massacre of 140 peaceful Arkansas pioneers at the Mountain Meadows Massacre of 1857 – a massacre which Romney’s great-great-grandfather, Parley Pratt, contributed to causing through one of his polygamous escapades.
Joseph Smith’s White Horse Prophecy, an apocalyptic prediction of the collapse of the United States followed by a Mormon theocratic seizure of power in the United States and in the entire world, for which Mitch Romney has been touted as the executor since his days at Brigham Young University.
The first time that an American president ever referred to terrorism, was James Buchanan talking about the Mormon theocratic dictatorship which was ruling over Utah and beyond.
If Romney is elected, it will mark, so far as is known, the first time that a bishop of any church has ever become President of the United States. This fact alone justifies an examination of Mormon tradition with a view to seeing how it might impact a possible Romney presidency.
The Mormons also possessed and evidently still possess a political secret police, the Sons of Dan or Danites. The Danites started out as the bodyguards of Joseph Smith. They then expanded to include the Mormon private army. Today, the Mormons represent powerful factions of the Central Intelligence Agency, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and the US federal government in general. These may be thought of as the modern Danites.
Webster Tarpley has written a couple hundred pages on it if you want to know more.
I believe that the Mormons are like any other group of people. They are subject to lies, exaggerations, myths and other forms of character assassination. I believe all the religious groups, like all men and women, have good characteristics and bad ones. They have carried out many good deeds and committed their share of atrocities. Sadly no one is perfect, and no group is immune to corruption.
I believe your claim makes for a good Bond flick, but i don't think vendettas last throughout many generations. If that were the case, we'd still be fighting the Crusades and Great Britten would still be wanting to own our asses. Your claim is just so over the top that it has to be fiction.
That is cool that your religious leader, LaRouche, is somewhat more liberal than the meta physical religious groups, but I bet even he has made some silly, superstitious assumptions about the meaning and purpose of life. He, like all groups of humans, is not immune to making mistakes. I believe your claim is one of those mistakes.
I kid you about the religious crack, but I believe it is needed to help make my point. I don't know how any person could get their meaning of life from only one religion, organization or source.
As a matter of fact, I do believe that the "British empire" is, as you say, wanting our assess. But by empire, I don't mean country. Think in terms of what we today call "financial empires". There is still a financial empire, which has its headquarters in the City of London financial district.
Wall Street is one of it subsidiaries, and it is similarly networked to other financial centers around the world. This network of wealthy people is what we could call the present day empire, which wants the assess of not just the US, but all nation states. The financial empire wants to make every nation subservient to it, and uses all kinds of front organizations to do so.
Webster Tarpley makes the case that the Mormon church is one such front organization. There are many good people in the Mormon church, I have know a few of them. There are many good people on Wall Street also. However, in both cases, I believe the organizations are involved in dirty work for the empire.
Investigating conspiracies, and conspiracy theory are two different things. Conspiracy theory is an English expressing that means to look for conspiracies using lame research methods based on logical fallacies. Investigative journalists also look into conspiracies, but they use serious research methods.
I can assure you that Webster Tarpley, Ph.D., uses serious research methods.
an episode of american horror story
ROFL!!!
You people do realize that your continued insistence on getting your "information" from every source possible EXCEPT the actual people you are talking about makes you look incredibly biased, stupid, and desperate. Right?
Tarpley- "Webster Griffin Tarpley (born 1946) is an American conspiracy theorist,[1] author, historian, economist, journalist, lecturer, and critic of US foreign and domestic policy. He is not a member of any political party and a former member of the U.S. Labor Party."
In one of his books he stated that "The notion of anthropogenic global warming is a fraud."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webster_Tarpley
But as an FYI-(if there is actually any intelligent life in this forum)
Utah didn't even become a STATE until 1896-how exactly does one "secede" from a nation you aren't a part of yet?
The Mormon people are probably among the MOST patriotic Americans on the planet. Hell, the 4th of July Celebration in Utah county every year is a freaking week long! Let me direct you to the website- http://www.freedomfestival.org/
And anyone who wants to know what MORMONS believe (as opposed to what NUTBAGS say that Mormons believe) -www.mormon.org or www.lds.org
Why don't you learn about the "oath of vengeance":
"voters have a right to know about the Mormon Oath of Vengeance, which is nothing less than a pledge to God to carry out an implacable hereditary vendetta of blood atonement against the United States of America and its people to avenge the slaying of the Mormon Prophet Joseph Smith in 1844."
Is it true or not?
And if I wanted to investigate a criminal organization, would you suggest that I get my information from the members of that organization and take it at face value?
I first became concerned about Mormonism when I read a memo from Mormon bishop Glenn Pace about severe abuses taking place in the Mormon church:
The Glenn L Pace Memo http://www.whale.to/b/pacememo.html
There was an oath of vengeance, but it was taken out of the temple ceremony nearly 100 years ago.
The memo is about church members who may have been subjected to ritualistic abuse, but it is not about such abuse perpetrated by church leaders.
Wow. You really ARE easily led around by the nose aren't you? You're so far behind the early Anti-Mormons who blazed trails of rumor and lies that eventually became 4 lane highways of rumor and lies that I'm inclined to almost feel sorry for you. Everything you have brought up here has been brought up, refuted, and brought up and refuted again over and over. There's even a wiki for it now: Y http://en.fairmormon.org/Mormonism_and_temples/Endowment/Oath_of_vengeance
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_of_vengeance#Relation_to_other_Mormon_.22blood.22_doctrines
First of all, the controversial "oath" you Anti-Mormons like to bring up hasn't been practiced in almost 100 years, and only a handful of people in the entire history of the Church misunderstood it to be some kind of oath to PERSONALLY exact vengeance-and even THEY can't agree on who or what that vengeance should be acted out upon. (the nation or the murderers etc.)
Everyone else understood then, and honest, intelligent people reading about it today understand, that the injunction to "pray to Almighty God to avenge" the prophets literally meant what it said- to pray to God to avenge-not to actually DO any avenging themselves.
As far as the "Glenn L Pace" memo-SURELY all that "deep digging" you claim to do would have turned up this:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=336&dat=19950426&id=gdERAAAAIBAJ&sjid=rewDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6847,6063505
http://www.cesnur.org/2001/archive/mi_mormons.htm
So what? All this means is that you trust different people than I do. You can't consider that you are being led by the nose by someone, why would you expect me to?
I haven't looked too closely at this particular source but I am a little skeptical of some of the things he seems to be claiming although I won't go into them too much now. I suspect they probably mixed a lot of truth in with a lot of exaggerations. There are plenty of legitimate reasons to oppose Mitt Romney and doubt the Mormon religion which is extremely authoritarian but that isn't what many of the fringe conspiracy theorists focus on. This is why the CIA and the FBI like to hire Mormons and evangelicals; because they're taught from birth to obey authority. They're also taught to do a lot of things in secret but it seems to me to be more of a psychological and sociological issue than far fetched conspiracy theory. I looked into more details of the Mormon religion and found many more reliable sources that raise many legitimate issues with the religion over the past couple of years ago and wrote several blogs about including the following if it helps any.
http://open.salon.com/blog/zacherydtaylor/2012/01/20/a_brief_history_of_the_mormon_church
I tried to rely on what I considered more reliable sources than those that refer to the "Mormon Mafia." There might be something to this and it was mentioned by the authors of the Mormon Corporate Empire but it isn't a mafia in the traditional sense. I do agree that the most devout members act as cult followers but many of the most moderate are the best researchers that expose this activities.
The history of Mormonism shows that it is anti-American. That's a legitimate concern for any American citizen.
The early history is clearly anti-American and the later history is a version of pro-American that involves patriotic worship and obedience which doesn't question authorities or at least the Mormon authorities.
I agree this is certainly a legitimate concern.
I would say that in its later history, Mormonism operates similarly to a semi-secret society such as the Freemasons. They have an outer level of decent respectable people, and an inner core that operates subversively on a covert level.
Joseph Smith, for example, was known to be a Freemason and came from a family of Freemasons:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormonism_and_Freemasonry
And as I mentioned at the beginning of this post, there are many Mormons in the CIA. You could say that secret societies and the secret agencies share a common heritage.
If I remember correctly their relationship with the Freemasons in the early stage were on again off again like their relationships with each other. In the early days there was a constant power struggle that ended up for the most part with an authoritarian leadership that has been passed down through the generations. That doesn't mean there haven't been changes with the times but they have attempted, when possible, to forget the past divine truths were different from the present divine truths.
You're right about there being many Mormons in the CIA and the FBI as well as other agencies. This does create a conflict of interest but it isn't limited to Mormons; they seek people that were raised in authoritarian manners that are taught to obey authority. There have been many experiments done by the military, perhaps with the support of the CIA to understand how to understand obedience to authority including those done by Stanley Milgram and Philip Zimbardo. These were allegedly done to understand why people obeyed Hitler and avoid it but if you look how they've been implemented in practice it seems as if they used the research for the opposite reasons.
More recently Philip Zimbardo became the President of the American Psychological Association and watered down the ethical standards for the APA prior to the Abu Ghraib scandal which was very similar to his famous Stan\ford Prison Experiment. I know it isn't related to Mormonism but what the hell, I thought I'd mention it.
From what I've read, Joseph Smith, and certain family members were Masons, and that many Masonic rituals were integrated into the Mormon church's practices.
Did you ever read the memo from Mormon Bishop Glenn Pace, which eventually found its way into a Salt Lake city newspaper:
http://www.whale.to/b/pacememo.html
Its quite bizarre.
My impression is that the link between the Masons and the Mormons isn't as important as it is often made out to be but there is a link. One thing they may have in common is that they share many of the same rituals which are common in many fraternities or cults. This may be part of an indoctrination process where people are taught to obey without question. It may not be directly linked to conspiracies but it trains people to go along with the program.
Another important aspect of the indoctrination process is often the way they teach children at an early age so that they never develop the thinking skills they need to stand up to cult leaders. This generally involves a lot of abuse that leads to many emotional problems. This creates a problems since it also includes denial or suppression of their memories; when they are retrieved they are often distorted and it includes bizarre stories some of which may be at least partially true but it becomes difficult to sort them out and skeptics often use this distortion to dismiss the entire story out of hand when that would be going to far in the other direction.
Thanks, that's interesting.
There are more traditional Christians in the CIA and the FBI than Mormons. Perhaps these wholesome Christians are the ones raging an Illuminati style conspiracy theory? There are many Jewish people in New-York, do you believe they have a secret plan to take over the city?
Nah it ain't a Jewish conspiracy it is a class difference that sometimes includes conspiracy but usually not the exaggerated versions that some of the more far fetched conspiracy theorists indicate. What I wrote about is a matter of record and I could easily provide sources if you're interested.
As for the Illuminati I suspect that is a red herring that does more to distract than to get to the truth.
OMG-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Freemasons
LOOK at all of the famous people who have been Freemasons who were/are NOT Mormon!!! Did you know that Washington DC is LAID OUT in documented Freemason symbols? Did you know that many of the Founding Fathers were Freemasons? And that American money has Freemasonry symbols on it??? AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Yes, I did indeed know those things, and I don't think that all Freemasons are or were bad. But I do think there is a core to the order that is involved in conspiracy, and that many of our leading politicians to this day are involved in that conspiracy.
How do you think that America got so badly off? Did it just happen by chance?
No. It happened because liars and idiots do stupid, selfish, ugly things that pervert things that are pure and good and holy. They always HAVE and they always WILL do it whether they belong to secret societies or not. Human beings do human things. Read a history book once in a while.
But tell me this, do you actually think that using MORE lies and more finger pointing and MORE stupidity is the way to CURE what ails this country? It doesn't. It just makes you a part of the problem yourself.
The best place for evil people to hide is behind masks of purity, goodness and holiness. Your desire to believe in goodness prevents you from facing the reality of evil.
Nope. I'm facing the reality that is YOU with perfect clarity thanks. Your inability to accept that ANYTHING or ANYONE could actually be trying to be pure, good, or holy makes you blind to the goodness that DOES exist.
Purity, goodness and holiness feel no NEED to hide and are what they are. Or do you think the best place for them to "hide" would be behind masks of evil? Flawed logic everywhere.
Sure goodness exists, but that doesn't mean that evil people never hide behind masks of goondness.
The fact that evil people sometimes DO doesn't mean you automatically assume that all goodness is a mask. You ask questions. You investigate. You learn. What you don't do is start pointing fingers and screaming "fake" every time something that appears good shows up. What is worse? Blindness or paranoia?
I can assure you that I don't scream "fake" at every example of goodness. For example, I believe many of the founding fathers were fine people whether they were Freemasons or not.
But Mormons cannot be?
That's true for all of us. We all have people whom we trust and believe, that others mistrust.
I have had friends who were Mormons, who are really good people. There are people who work on Wall Street who are really good people. But I believe that both Wall Street and the Mormon organization have an anti American orientation.
That may very well be your belief. You can believe anything you wish. But when you try to promote what you believe as "the truth" without any facts or evidence to support it, other than some paranoid book writer, you don't get to call your beliefs FACTS.
LOL - I love it - here you are having an argument with someone I thought that you would love just on general principal. I mean you the staunch fossil fuel supporter - and Arturo the Chinese governmental propagandist - not that you would be into propaganda or anything - I just figured that China's massive fossil fuel use would have you flying high.
I'm sorry. When did I ever profess "staunch support for fossil fuel"? Please demonstrate such or stop lying.
I'm not surprised you are shocked. You seem to have a really hard time grasping that individual human beings do not fit into the perfectly defined boxes you want them to. For you only extremes seems to exist. I'm either a AGW supporter or a GW denier. Either I'm a Democrat or I'm evil/stupid/wrong/blind. You just cannot even comprehend of anything or everything that lives between the two opposites in your mind.
How sad it must be to live in your head.
Sorry Bitsy - Again I am not gonna chase down your continued and repeated BS over this last year. Anyone who has been here for that amount of time and may have perused your stuff will know enough about your programs. Your freezer argument today was pretty hilarious.
And your propaganda campaign against me is equally hilarious. I stand by everything I've said-you clearly want to make me stand by everything I haven't said. Nice.
Nope - it is not necessary for me to do anything then enjoy your continuing rounds of BS attacks on the forum. Like I said - your freezer argument was one of the funniest things that I have ever seen you do.
That you get your "American/Mormon history" from a KNOWN conspiracy theorist and nutjob concerns me more.
That you justify your argument with the logical fallacy of labeling someone a conspiracy theorist concerns me more.
Is that the OWS equivalent of "I know you are but what am I?"
Someone who theorizes about conspiracies IS by definition a conspiracy theorist.
Keep posting all this obviously (and refuted over and over again) Anti Mormon Conspiracy crap and logic will dictate that YOU become known as a conspiracy theorist as well. That's how it works.
No, if I was saying "I know you are but what am I?", I would be accusing you of being a conspiracy theorist. Instead, I think that you have just been programmed by the mainstream propaganda to think that anyone who investigates conspiracies is crazy.
My opinion is that most people have been brainwashed in this way to believe a lie. How else could our society have gotten into such a terrible condition? So why should I care if deluded people think I'm crazy?
And while you say that the Mormon Conspiracy "crap" has been refuted over and over again, you haven't posted any of such refutations here. You've only indulged in name calling. It doesn't really give you much credibility.
And you haven't posted ANYTHING that has been proven to be reality. NOTHING. Opinions and smears and completely off-base assumptions etc are NOT facts-no matter how many times you try to pawn them off as such. Only someone who WANTS to brainwash other people would be so willing to embrace things for which there is no PROOF.
http://www.fairlds.org/
Here's an ENTIRE website dedicated to refuting the crap you're posting here. It's been around since 1997 and all of the "concerns" you have posted here have been addressed there over and over and over.
And what about the state of our economy today? Isn't that proof that something is deadly wrong with our society?
This is the only article I thought was good. However I did listen to Webster Tarpley in a video on this subject. Webster is pretty convincing, but ... wow this is a pretty way out there kind of a charge. I guess you would have to read his book.
Here is the article from Mormon, Dr. Brian Moench who criticizes Mitt Romney for his truthfullness to the Church and his Character ...and who posts his email for you to Contact him:
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2012/07/20
Published on Friday, July 20, 2012 by Common Dreams Romney: Gold Medal in Dishonesty by Brian Moench
..."But there is more dishonesty to Mitt than has been printed so far. There is a stark failure to live his religion, at least to the level of what should be expected of one who has risen to the upper echelons of Mormon ecclesiastical authority"....
Dr. Brian Moench is a member of the Union of Concerned Scientists. He can be reached at: yahoo.com
Mitt Romney also kept the records secret after promising transparency that were related to the bribery scandal and after he left they were destroyed according to the following article.
http://www.boston.com/news/politics/articles/2012/07/24/after_romney_pledged_transparent_olympics_key_documents_were_destroyed/
This is a pattern of behavior; he also attempted to maintain plausible deniability for things that happened at Bain after he left for the same reasons but in both case he either did the same things when he was in power or declined to disclose the records when he had a chance. His deniablity doesn't hold up.
Mormons are very Patriarchical, Mitt is the Bishop or President of a congregation, and I'm thinking most of Bain Capital was mormon... so it is like Mitt the Elder would be making decisions and having control over Bain after he was gone... and he would be the one making the decision to destroy documents. Of course how many other people were going to run for office. oh and it was A Mormon Committee in Utah running the Olympics. Patriarical elder again.
"...destroyed under the supervision of a staffer shortly after the flame was extinguished..."
No Way. Mitt Promised Open Document Policy.
Also if I was going to Run for Office... I would plan a take over of the Olymic Committee because I am a big Tither, and Bishop/Elder.
Strategically, sure I would want to keep people out of my records, slow them down from access, say we are doing everything we can, say it is all open for the asking, and then not provide the docs, and destroy the docs before the Flame was extinguished.
But wow he said a $1 Billion Public dollars in city improvements on top of $ 342 Million in federal aid toward the Games. And no Documents on how the money was spent.
Well... could be some crony dollars on contracts.
It's not just the documents about how the money was spent but documents that presumably related to the bribery scandal which was never resolved properly. The bribes were given to lure the Olympics; they got caught; then the decision wasn't reviewed and put back op so other locations could bid; instead they brought someone in who "saved the Olympics" by promising transparency without delivery. Or in other words the "saving of the Olympics" was based on hype and propaganda for political reasons.
Thanks. I never read the background before now.
Romney may or nay not be the perfect choice but anything is better than the village idiot we have now
Jill Stein Green Party?? http://www.gp.org/committees/platform/2012/economic-justice-and-sustainability.php#NationalDebt
I did look at the link and this " Increase funding for green jobs" should include further study before anymore of our tax dollars are allocated to it. Billions of taxpayer money has been wasted on a lot of failed green energy programs so far.
Not a patch on the trillions dissappeared in the DOD or the illegal invasions.
Arturo is a funny guy. As a Larouchie he opposes Obama and therefore is defacto in the Republican camp. He has urged me to "expose" Mormon "satanist practices" which I do not do or speak about for the reason primarily that I have no such credible information and because such stuff only discredits anyone trying to expose Mormonism for what it actually is which is quite bad enough without throwing in such unprovable and irrelevant stuff as them being tools of British intelligence back in the 1800's.
I think here Arturo is in fact working to discredit anyone who does oppose the Mormon racist cult, much in a similar way as people who write about space beams and atomic explosions discredit those who are not satisfied with the story told about 911.
That's just silly.
The silliness is your rambling on about the redcoats are coming. You know damned well also you wanted someone other than yourself to come onto this forum spouting about "mormon satanism" and you were rebuffed. Mormonism is a threat to the well being of most people in the world - it's a dangerous racist secretive cult. Stick to the facts because there are plenty of them. That's if you actually oppose the Mormons.
Is that what I know? Ok, well thanks for telling me what I know.
Actually, I expected nothing of the sort. I have too much experience with the fact that the preferred response of most people to such issues is denial. And I can't say that I even recognize your name. Why would I have such expectations of you?
What is the difference between a religion and a cult?I think the difference is that a cult is based on rituals,practices and theories that are secret.Mormonism,Scientology,and the Sikh religion all have this in common.I am pretty sure that no such secrecy exists within Christianity/Judaism,Islam,or the group of practices which are called Hinduism or Ayurvedic Tradition.I don't include Buddism because Buddists usually claim that Buddism is not a religion.Nevertheless,Buddism is not a cult either because it is not based on secrets.While some of the practices of these religions are not well known,and some places in Mecca are restricted to Muslims only,still-what goes on there is not secret.People who belong to cults or Secret Societies like Mormonism or Skull & Bones or Freemasonry should not be allowed to serve in public offices because their first loyalty is to their cult.Everything else comes second.
Thats fair enough opinion. I would turn it a little. I don' think there is much difference between a cult and a religion ... mostly because it is very personal, charged subject, and causes relationship probems.
If I joined any number of religions or cults my family would get upset and coworkers would react and gossip. Calling something a cult puts an Edge on it. It is perjoritive. Somepeople call 12 step programs a cult because of many things, but they also keep secret what they say and what other people say.
People are control freaks. Charging a thing with being a cult is to ostracize it and try to drive people out of it.
Mormons practice ostricization by the way.
As a Freedom issue: we can't call things a cult and try to drive them out of out lives. Unless that is your value. You want to suppress certain activities of people.
My feeling about Catholicism is there are many Secrets in the big organization. They build their own city within walls to keep secrets. They have a Vatican Library. They chose to publish only certain books or writings in what we call the New Testiment.
The US government is very secret. Corporations are very secret. The accounting books of governments, corporations and foundations are secret.
So possibly we are a nation of secrets within a land of Religious Infuence, religious Values, Religious Politics, and these all extend into our work places and into our government.
If we look for religious influence that is secretive to root out Cults - then our whole government is suspect in my opinion.
I agree about our whole government, but I think that we've had better times when the government wasn't so corrupt as it is now. There are real reasons why we consider certain presidents such as Lincoln, FDR and JFK to be "great".
I was talking about secrets that are an actual part of the belief system-but you make a valid point about secret archives of organizational materials such as exists in Vatican City and in other places.Also,there are secretive type groups of Catholics like Opus Dei and secretive religious orders like the SJ.I also must acknowledge that for sure there are people in the CIA and the military whose allegiances are first to their agency or military branch and the Constitution second.I understand that Mormons have dealt with the problem of swearing oaths to entities other than the LDS with...a secret ritual administered in advance to nullify such oaths and permit a Mormon to be sworn in falsely.As far as excluding cult members from public service based on suspect loyalty,you have made a valid point there as well because of-slippery slope-where would such an exclusion end,and who would be sufficiently wise to make the distinction?Well played-or in the words of Trayvon,"You got me."
Yes I heard the secretive religious orders SJ is full of smart people. Kind of strange to think... well if they are that smart maybe go and learn from them and get a big boost in life.
Thanks.
Mormon Mafia, Gay Mafia, Jewish Mafia, Memphis Mafia blah blah blah
If you don't like the guy because he's a Republican, fine. Great. Go for it. Quit this religious bigotry crap. Go tell someone you can't support Charles Schumer or Dianne Feinstein because they are Jewish and see what happens. You're free to not like him but the anti Mormon stuff makes you look like a$$holes.
I don't really care about what I may look like to you. I care a lot about having a president who is involved in an anti-American organization.
God, I admire you. Risking the world thinking you are a bigot so you can take down that massive Mormon conspiracy that has threatened America for ages. Please finish off that Cthulhu cult when you are done with the Mormons, James Bond.
Glad to see that you admire critical thinking. Nothing bigoted about investigating the background of a presidential candidate, a dirty job, but someone has to do it.
Did your dad or grandad investigate JFK when he was running for office? You know, the whole Catholic and the Pope's gonna be running the USA thing.
No, my dad mostly spent his free time playing golf. My grandparents didn't have the technology, the internet, to do such research.
Wow. We really dodged a bullet then. That Catholic mafia is one tough subversive political party.
I wonder what would have happened if someone like you had actually prevented JFK being elected?
I wouldn't have prevented it, I thought JFK was great. I think the Catholic church has both good and bad aspects.
Unlike those damn milk drinking, Osmond family loving Mormons.
And i said someone like you. Someone who really really hated Dems so they tried to play on people's fears and mistrust to prevent a Dem from becoming president. Thankfully we were smarter than that back then and i believe we still are. Romney might lose, but it won't be because of fearmongers like you.
I don't hate Democrats, I hate the power behind both Democrats and Republicans which subverts them, that is, Wall Street.
I'm starting to think this conversation is way over your head.
Its a good thing that you are "starting to think". Better late than never.
[Removed]
Mitt Romney is not really a Republican.They all know it and they really had a difficult time accepting him.Romney's true politics remain a mystery-obviously he is using the Republican Party as a vehicle.It seems like Romney is pro-business,pro-wealthy & doesn't give a shit one way or the other about the social issues that the Republican Base is so wound up about.That means he isn't a Libertarian either,because of the belief that Libertarians have that laws should not be created that are about issues of morality like drug abuse,prostitution,pornography.abortion,et.al.Clearly Romney does not care if such laws are enacted or not.
Conspiracy Crusaders strike again! Arturo (Chief of Chinese propaganda and anti-Zionist), Renneye (Illuminati and New World Order expert), and shadz66 (Mini-boss of Conspiracy Crusaders and 911 Truther) will stop at nothing to make Occupy look like a bunch of conspiracy theory nutjobs.
The Mormons are the Reptilian Overlords themselves! We are doomed!
Dr. Livingshit I presume.
Master of conspiracy theories I presume. Here to destroy this site by making Occupy protesters and followers look like raging lunatics.
pissant
Sorry I outed you. Someone had to do it. Wasn't it you claimed Occupy was controlled by the Global Elite, otherwise known at the New World Order. I remember you saying that Occupy was using Illuminati symbols. Since day one, your goal as been to make this movement look bad by associating it with nonsensical and delusional conspiracy theorists. Arturo is your helper, and he shows what he's all about with this posting. Go back to the Alex Jones site where you belong.
pustulant pissant
Beware, Occupy organizers are Reptilian Overlords! You were right all along. They use Illuminati symbols to communicate between each other. Check your neck, check your hips, con trolls use microchips to control your lips. Solidarity for Svali!
You're just miffed because I lured you to a site with a live traffic-feed on it, a few weeks ago....Manila much?!
Retreat, O trashy...to the hollow cavern between your ears and wallow in the comfort of your widdendream.
Hmmm... Nope, wasn't me. This is the first time I use this site in weeks. Plus, I don't care for your Alex Jones sites.
Ludibrious lying, ludicrous lout.
The only ones lying here are conspiracy theorists such as yourself and arturo. Lying to make us look bad, plus you insult Mormons in the process.
Brabbling boor.
New World Order microchipped slave. The crazy Renneye! Forum idiot extraordinaire. Would you like some Illuminati toys with those fries?
Poor fella. How's the insane asylm trashy? They treating you okay? You skipped your meds again, didn't you? Now go and ask the nice lady at the nursing station for your meds, and be a good boy. And for gods-sake put on some underwear...your gown is open in the back.
You Illuminati worshipers are hilarious. Keep those conspiracy theories coming, they're always a good laugh. Do you have anything against the Mormons yourself? Perhaps you can throw in a Jews Want To Take Over The World conspiracy theory, or something about Elvis still being alive?
Oh, hi Mike. Where do you hang on the freudian scale?
There is no such thing as the Freudian scale. Perhaps you should pick up a few of Freud's and Jung's works to initiate yourself with their thinking process.
I was thinking more along the lines of mother-love, and seeing dicks everywhere. Do you see phalluses wherever you turn, mike?
I only see dicks when I think of Conspiracy Crusaders giving daily blow jobs to the likes of Alex Jones and trying to make us all look like a bunch of conspiracy theory nut cases. I found it particularly distressing when Renneye came here to claim that Occupy was being controlled by the Global Elite without showing one shred of evidence. I'm also concerned by those like you who protect the Conspiracy Crusaders and their outrageous lies. There's something very wrong when people like arturo build a case against Mormons without showing one piece of evidence.
Would you like it if I started Conspiracy Theories against Australians. Your economy is booming, surely you must work hand in hand with the Illuminati. Something tells me you're a Reptilian Overlord yourself.
You brought up the talk of penises, so it was on your mind. Do you often fantasize about penises? Did you check your self for Penis Envy? It's OK if you like penises, Occupy supports all sexual orientations.
Hmmm, I haven't commented on the Mormons. We get the occasional invasion of suits on pushbikes here in Australia, but the cult hasn't really caught on.
Odd that you take offence to posts on a website though. Words on a page are optional for reading purposes.
I have been against the conspiracy theorists who come here since the beginning, but it doesn't mean I take offense. They hurt Occupy and I fight back. That's all. If you want to protect their nonsensical claims, that's OK. We are all entitled to our opinion.
What made you think of penises? Is that something you often bring up in your discussions with other adults?
Phalluses are everywhere in western iconography, Mike. You've not noticed?
Even in figures of speech, and common jargon.
Speaking of which, here's a photo of the mormon church office building.
https://twitter.com/1stabbychick/status/235399876073103360/photo/1
Sure, but that doesn't mean everyone's obsessed with them. I was wondering why you seem so keen about penises. Are you satisfied with your penis? Perhaps you prefer those of others? You brought it up, so I assume it's a topic of dear interest for you.
Okay, so you come in with both guns drawn, and picking fights. Just hatched yourself a new identity, but clearly know your way around. Care to fill us in on who you were, and why you feel the need to create a new chapter, or are we dicks supposed to assume the worst about you, and your reasons for being here?
I support Occupy, so I go against the conspiracy theorists who try to make us look like fools. I already explained this. Would you care to explain why you threw a red herring to start this thread with me, and why this red herring was based around the concept of penises?
I didn't. You mentioned Jung and Freud in the same sentence, and suggested I read some books. The first paragraph I encountered mentioned mother figures and phalluses, so it was your call, rather than mine.
You mentioned phalluses first. Anyhow, thanks for the discussion. I learned that you support conspiracy theories and like talking about penises. I'm not sure what else I should gather from our talk.
Conspiracies about phalluses?
They're everywhere. No need for a conspiracy.
I like going commando, meaning no undies under the trousers.
How's about you?
This posting is about the conspiracy concerning the Mormons. I attacked it, and you jumped in to protect arturo by using a red herring based on penis talk. It's nice that you like going commando, but I'm not here to talk about that. I'll let you take your penis talk to another forum user. Anyways, thanks for the discussion.
And why not introduce yourself? MikeMcKeel conspiracy denialist extraordinaire. I specifically coined the phrase "conspiracy denialist" for individuals such as yourself.
You may well know that "denial" is an important concept in psychotherapy. For example, if a father is sexually abusing his daughter, the mother may "go into denial" if the daughter informs her of the abuse.
This is usually because the mother just doesn't want to believe that her husband could do such a thing, much like the way in which you deny that certain individuals or groups may be possibly involved in a criminal conspiracy.
You could say that a "denialist" is a person who permits or enables the continuation of insanity, like in a family or in a nation such as our own.
What is there to deny? You have shown no evidence for your claims, you simply attack the Mormons. It's despicable. You are the one denying that what you posted is nothing but an anti-Mormon conspiracy theory based on nothing but lame associations.
I suppose that you would similarly claim that the abused child was "attacking" her father, and that it was a "despicable" thing to do.
My post was mostly based on the work of Webster Tarpley, an esteemed journalist who appears regularly on a number of alternative news channels.
Esteemed journalist???? Yeah. He's so highly regarded that no one ever hears about him....except Anti Mormon bigots.
Why not go to Youtube and look him up? You'll see that he is featured on a number of alternative news programs.
Alternative news programs. Enough said.
And what do you buy into, Fox News?
Nope. But thanks for being an ASSumer. Your little expert doesn't appear on any of the OTHER main stream media sites or broadcasts or in any journals respected or revered by the intelligent and discerning.
Is it impossible for you to have a conversation without resorting to profanities? And you're the person who wants to lecture about holiness and goodness?
I'm sure you must have innumerable perfectly reasonable justifications for your need to indulge in profanity. Probably because a person so "evil" as myself obviously "deserves" it.
Let's just say I have a problem with people who lie and manipulate in an effort to smear innocent people of ANY culture or religion or race in an effort to further their personal agendas. Those people QUALIFY by default to be addressed in a profane manner because they are the opposite of holiness and goodness.
Now, if you don't want people describing you as EVIL and deserving of such gutter language, perhaps you should stop behaving in the manner most commonly ascribed to it.
My point is that if people are to resolve their differences, they will be better able to do so if they refrain from personal attacks, and stick to discussing the issue.
You personally attacked Mitt Romney using someone else's personal attack on the Mormon Church. Remember?
Then I wouldn't worry about it if it were you.
If Tarpley's claims are so untrue, the Mormon church will surely prosecute him for slander and win. Or perhaps not.
If people went to court over slander these days, the courts would be backlogged for decades. Seriously. The Mormon Church simply has better things to do with their time.
One the most critical aspects of Romney's background is that he is a Mormon, which we can see from the history of the church.
The history of the Church should come from the actual Church's history. You're choosing to pretend that someone's completely untrue and unproven accusations against that Church are TRUE. That's called slander, lies, rumors, etc. NOT actual history. Considering the degree to which the LDS Church went in order to find out what was going on, and opened it all to investigators-it's amazing that you STILL think they managed to cover it all up without a trace.
I didn't use obscenities though. If someone runs for president, he has to expect that people will explore his background.
Yes, yes. You refrained from obscenities. Arturo USES NO obscenities!!!!! Moving on.
Exploring Mitt Romney's actual background would be a refreshing change of pace. When do you plan to do that?
I new you would have perfectly reasonable justifications.
Learn how to be reasonable.
Glad to see you are making some progress.
Consider this, I disagree with you as vehemently as you disagree with me, but throughout our conversation, I've been able to refrain from profanities while you have freely indulged in them.
I admire that about you arturo. Such civility is far too rare.
Freely? Define and demonstrate my "free indulgence".
I'm thrilled and honored to be in the presence of someone who has so much restraint. Happy now? What is your point?
If you wish to teach reasonableness, I suggest you drop the profanities.
There you go again. Assumptions. I said learn to be reasonable. I never said I planned to teach you. (please note...I did NOT highlight the first three letters of the word this time)
That's the problem with conspiracy theorists such as yourself, you base all your claims on lame assumptions. Furthermore, Tarpley is not an esteemed journalist, he's a racist conspiracy theorist such as yourself. You might fool a lot of people here, but you don't fool me. I know your mission is to make Occupy look bad by making it seem like we are a bunch of nonsensical deluded conspiracy theorists such as yourself.
Occupy doesn't need me to make it look bad, its done that all by itself. I can't see that it has accomplished anything constructive.
you are a fool - don't you get any news over there in guangdong or maybe you don't read. haven't heard any talk about the 1% and the 99% - stay in your little fascist chinese hole and post on the fox news site
Another fine example of Occupy types making Occupy look foolish; a post with nothing but insults and petty accusations.
that is all you deserve - nothing worse than a rich chinese commie it seems
If you want to act uncivilized, that's how people will see you. It makes you politically inconsequential. Is that what you want for OWS?
Its irrelevant what you think of me, I'm just worried about what others will think of you.
I'm not a rich Chinese communist, I'm an English teacher from America. I have one student who's father is rich, has a shoe company with 2,000 employees. Don't know if he's a communist or not.
stay in china and work on fixing what is wrong with that country since you can't make it here. but stop throwing stones at ows when you clearly know nothing about what is going on in the usa - or the world it seems. here are your words - "I can't see that it has accomplished anything constructive." - this shows you cannot see. don't worry about what others think of me that is not important - you need to educate yourself - you have a lot of work to do so stgop posting and start reading english teacher
I can make it where ever I want. I'm a landlord and have an independent source of income. I teach in China because its what I like doing, and an area in which I think I can make a unique contribution.
I'm not throwing stones at OWS, I'm just suggesting how it could function more effectively. You say I can't see what OWS has accomplished, but you haven't shown me either. This site accomplishes the sharing of information, and I think that's a good thing. But we are far from accomplishing political goals that make a difference.
I educate myself on a daily basis. I'm getting to the upper intermediate level in Chinese now and read intelligence reports on a daily basis. And you?
Think I'll continue posting.
figures - you are a renteir (in case you are not educated on the subject here is wiki - The beneficiaries of rentier capitalism are a property-owning social class that, according to Marx, play no productive role in the economy per se, but who monopolize the access to physical or financial assets and technologies). this site is not ows but is simply one part of it - if you cannot see the change in dialogue since the occupation of the park then you are reading the wrong intelligence reports - let me correct that - we all know what you are reading. sure, keep posting shit like this - "The truth is revealed. Occupy is its own worst enemy.
I would like to see Occupy accomplish something. But to do that, it would have to have specific objectives, something the movement seems to avoid developing." - sit in you easy chair and throw you tiny little barbs at a movement that is trying to do something while you have done nothing but live off daddies money. learn chinese - you may need it!
As a "renteir" I provide affordable housing to those who desperately need it. If you have a problem with that, the problem is yours.
In addition to being your dreaded "renteir", I am also a teacher, do productive work, and make my own living. In this way, I am able to donate generously to political and other worthwhile causes. I'm too busy to sit in an easy chair, perhaps you are projecting your own situation on me?
The relationship between China and the US is an important one. By improving that relationship two of the world's major problems could be solved - the financial crisis in the west, and widespread poverty in the east. My job is helping to improve this relationship.
You have some personal problem with me, so are determined to see me as an enemy of the movement. But I've been generously supporting a political movement that has opposed Wall Street for close to ten years now.
I must imagine that you are just frustrated with your own life and are desperate to blame your problems on anybody but yourself.
all rentiers think they are doing "gods work" - the 1% always think they are better than the rest. you wrote this - "You have some personal problem with me, so are determined to see me as an enemy of the movement." - and you also wrote this - "Occupy doesn't need me to make it look bad, its done that all by itself. I can't see that it has accomplished anything constructive." i would say that most rentiers have some form of stupidity working within them but you seem to have more than most!
You're welcome.
Actually, it came from my grandfather. He came to the US broke and made it rich, than he helped my father, and my father helped me and my brothers. Now, since I don't have children, I help other people's children by giving them jobs. What's wrong with that? Its what rich people should do.
Wouldn't you help your own children? Didn't your mommy or daddy every help you? Or were they just losers? Maybe nobody ever helped you so your experiencing tough times now, and that's why you're so bitter. Get over it, times are difficult for lots of people.
well my parents did not help with money since they never tried to get rich - they helped others instead of amassing wealth. it is great that you provide below market rents for your tenants - it is great that you are here representing the 1% help poor ows people understand the world - like this comment - "Occupy doesn't need me to make it look bad, its done that all by itself. I can't see that it has accomplished anything constructive" - thank you so much - renteir
Regardless of how I came by my money, the important thing is what I've done with it. In addition to supporting political activism, I've also started an English school in Argentina:
http://www.englearningsolution.info/landing.php
which has provided work for up to ten other teachers at a time, without taking any money out of the company for myself. In times like these, they really appreciate having the work. I'll probably do the same thing here in China sooner or later.
What have you ever done for anybody besides vent your bitterness on them?
so it did come from mommy
More name calling and prejudice, nothing substantive. Typical of politically ineffective individuals.
and renteirs are so politically effective - daddies money bought that apartment building - or was it mommies?
Personal attacks against me are meaningless and only reflect the weakness of your positions.
What do you propose to create change.
are you arturo - i am confused but why are you wasting time on me - any real organizer does not have time for this nonsense
What do you propose we do to create change that benefits the 99%.
You personal opinions on Arturo (or any individual) however interesting is not real valuable in regards to the reasons most of us come here.
then don't read them - you do such amazing work for the 99% (posting things that i find fairly lame!) and there are so few hours in the day so get to work - stop talking to me!
What do you propose?
to arturo - i would propose that he go away and read for a few years - those were his words you know
The truth is revealed. You are an Occupy enemy.
The truth is revealed. Occupy is its own worst enemy.
I would like to see Occupy accomplish something. But to do that, it would have to have specific objectives, something the movement seems to avoid developing.
Occupy has always had specific objectives.
What are they?
There are more, these are the main ones. I'm not surprised that you aren't aware of this. You have always been an enemy of OWS. Only here to make use look like a bunch of conspiracy theorist nut jobs.
I don't think that you, personally, need me to make you look like a nut job.
Your objectives are pretty nebulous, my opinion is that objectives such as passing Glass Steagall, and implementing a new New Deal, like FDR did, are the only things that will really make a difference.
You are SUCH a sheep.
You can't even see (or admit) that your example above shows a "father sexually abusing his daughter" (a real, provable crime) being compared to individuals or groups that "MIGHT BE POSSIBLY INVOLVED IN A CRIMINAL CONSPIRACY".
MANY people have cried "abuse" only to admit later, or have it discovered that they lied. Mentally ill, vindictive, needing attention. Someone as well informed about "psychotherapy" as you are would know this. Condemning a father for a crime he did not commit against his child is as sick and wrong, but SO IS the child who would make such a claim.
Your posts are all just claims that "might be possible", but you are willing to condemn these people without a trial and without evidence. To you they are guilty until or unless proven guilty. That is NOT how things work in America, and it shouldn't be the way things work in this forum either.
The point being that because there is no proof or evidence to back up your claims, you're looking more and more like the "sick child" who needs a good psychotherapist, along with any person who "permits or enables the continuation of your insanity".
And what about the child that is really being abused? Do you believe that such children exist, or do you believe that world wide, there is no such thing as the sexual abuse of children?
Of course I believe that such children exist! But the more children (or adults who pretend or hallucinate or are fed regression therapy lies) who lie about being victims themselves-the LESS likely the real children are to be believed or helped!
That's why people like you HURT the causes they think they are helping. When people find out that all your accusations about the LDS Church are false, how likely do you think they'll be to listen to you if you really DID need to get their attention about something real and horrible?
Yes, I think the truth will come out on the ritual abuse issue. An increasing number of professional researchers from respectable institutions are investigating and reporting there work in professional journals.
You can see this article by:
Randy Noblitt, PhD Professor and Director Clinical Doctoral Program The California School of Professional Psychology Alliant International University in Los Angeles
http://ritualabuse.us/ritualabuse/articles/an-empirical-look-at-the-ritual-abuse-controversy-randy-noblitt-phd/
It reviews the following studies:
A national survey of 2,709 clinical psychologists with memberships in the American Psychological Association showed that 70% denied and 30% acknowledged seeing at least one case of “ritualistic or religion-related abuse since January 1
Another survey investigated reports of sexual and ritual abuse made to British psychologists (Andrews, Morton, Bekerian, Brewin, Davies, & Mollon, 1995). Of 810 British Psychological Society practitioners who had seen sexually abused clients, the investigators found that 15% had worked with clients reporting satanic ritual abuse.
Jill Waterman, Robert Kelley, Mary Kay Olivieri, and Jane McCord (1993) did a six year longitudinal study of 82 children who had made allegations of ritualistic sexual abuse (RSA) in the Manhattan Beach, California area in comparison with 37 non-abused (NA) children and 15 non-ritualistically sexually abused (SA) children.
I think we'll continue to see more and more studies like these done by legitimate researchers.
Again. I am NOT saying that it does not occur. I said I believed it DOES happen. I'm saying that no evidence is no evidence and that you cannot go around proclaiming people guilty of ritual abuse simply because you WANT to.
These studies present substantial evidence, as time goes by more will surface. Eventually, the reality of this issue will be known scientifically.
Which is just another way of saying "I like to make up stuff about Mormons without any proof existing that I am right then and link to ritual abuse seminars as if that proves me right".
Thanks
Which is another way of saying that you are afraid to face the reality of this evidence.
If you really want to explore doctor Tarpley's research in detail, I think it would take a whole new post.
LDS is the fastest growing religion in the US, with some 14 - 15 million members. And they have very long tentacles that focus on aid to disadvantaged families - that is how they grow their membership - pretty cool.
That is cool, but some times, secret societies operate a "front" of decency and benevolence, while behind the scenes, matters are quite different. The founding Mormon, Joseph Smith, was a known Freemason:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormons_and_freemasons
The thing that first got me concerned about Mormonism was the memo that was discovered from the Mormon Bishop, Glen Pace, concerning the severe abuse of Mormon church members, that eventually turned up in a Salt Lake City newspaper:
http://www.whale.to/b/pacememo.html
The same society that advocates for Gay marriage, Gay adoption, single parenthood, the Muslim child bride, is going to deny a Mormon polygamy as a religious mandate for which there exists biblical president?
No way, it's not happening; either marriage is between man and woman, and children as the product of hetero relationships require a parenthood which consists of both, in some form, or, our tolerance must demand a universal equality. If marriage is to be so unbound so as not to permit a strict definition as heterosexual practice, than the denial of a Mormon polygamy must be labeled as religious prejudice.
If the Mormon is secretive it is the result of this prejudice against polyamory; it is not secretive regarding any other practice or belief.
And child abuse, as I'm sure you know, occurs far more often in non-religious environments.