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Forum Post: What Is MISSING? In The Gun Debate?

Posted 1 year ago on Jan. 20, 2013, 3:30 a.m. EST by KevinPotts (368)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

What Is MISSING? In The Gun Debate?

"Okay, so (Obama) is finally trying to ban assault rifles and high-capacity-ammo clips (Good. I‘m glad. That needs to happen.), but this totally ignores and overshadows the fact that rifles only account for 3 percent of annual gun-related-deaths in America, while it is actually Hand-Guns that should be the main issue (47 percent of all murders in the U.S. are committed with handguns) and the fact that almost-every-irresponsible-dumb-ass-and-their-momma-in-the-entire-country can purchase and own guns without any required training or psychological evaluation whatsoever."

-KevinPotts

Concerning The 2nd Amendment:

“The amendment seems to have been written to allow the states to check the power of the federal government by maintaining their militias. Given the changes that have occurred in our military, and even in our politics, the idea that a few pistols and an AR 15 in every home constitutes a necessary bulwark against totalitarianism is fairly ridiculous. If you believe that the armed forces of the United States might one day come for you—and you think your cache of small arms will suffice to defend you if they do—I’ve got a black helicopter to sell you.” -Sam Harris

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/the-riddle-of-the-gun

I also found this article to be quite interesting concerning the 2nd Amendment and have never even heard of this issue brought up before: ‘The Second Amendment was Ratified to Preserve Slavery’ http://truth-out.org/news/item/13890-the-second-amendment-was-ratified-to-preserve-slavery

50 Comments

50 Comments


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[-] 3 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

to answer your question in the title - logic

None of the proposals will result in lower gun crime because none of the key factors are mentioned in the debate on how to reduce gun crimes.

  1. Poverty is never mentioned.

  2. Creating forms of opportunity are not mentioned.

  3. Hand guns are not mentioned even though they are involved in the overwhelming majority of gun crimes because they can easily be hidden.

  4. Legalizing and regulating drugs is never mentioned.

Since this debate doesn't address real contributing factors to gun violence, it is obvious it is nothing more than a distraction from real issues. It riles up republicans and gun advocates who love to be riled up, and satisfies democrats who feel like they finally might a have a legislative victory, even if it's really just a farce that will not reduce gun crime.

[-] 2 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Fuck the System. thank you for posting this.,..

[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

Modern globalization, Coupled with condemnations, Unnecessary death, Matador corporations, Puppeting your frustrations, With the blinded flag!

Manufacturing consent is the name of the game, The bottom line is money, Nobody gives a fuck.

4000 hungry children leave us per hour, From starvation, While billions are spent on bombs, Creating death showers.

Boom, boom, boom, boom, Every time you drop the bomb, You kill the God your child has born

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7l60b6LqfLk

[-] 2 points by KevinPotts (368) 1 year ago

Agreed.

[-] 2 points by wEuene (9) from New York, NY 1 year ago

One thing that's missing is a true understanding of what the Second Amendment was about: Slavery, So, let's cut the crap about the second amendment.http://pleasedontvomitinthetaxi.blogspot.com/2012/12/lets-cut-crap-about-second-amendment.html

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22310) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

What Is MISSING? In The Gun Debate?

Urgency?

I mean gun violence is only a symptom of the ills of society after all.

Such as :

1 - Influenced government

2 - CorpoRAT goal

Their image of the future

3 - Consider the facts around the country around the world - you should then agree.

4 - if left as is - Wash-up time for breakfast - aw ma do I have ta?

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Since the same-sex "debate", and the right-to-life "debate" are failing to raise any eyebrows these days, there comes a time for more divisive measures to keep the plebs occupied on fabricated dramas, so that the real machinations of the one percenters don't get so much attention.

Next question?

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Good point. In the US the Creel Commision was set up to manipulate the public in to WWI so that corporations wouldn't lose their investments according to Chris Hedges. The mechanism was to control people through emotions, since people react out of emotions not reason. ...And as you say, nothing ever seems to get done in public for the public. They are doing things under the radar. I guess we should be checking the Congressional Record as David Cay Johnston says. It is out there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Committee_on_Public_Information
http://www.senate.gov/pagelayout/legislative/d_three_sections_with_teasers/congrecord.htm
http://thomas.loc.gov/home/r111query.html
http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/amlaw/lwcr.html
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/browse/collection.action?collectionCode=CRED http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c113:H.J.+Res.+18: (Balance Budget Amendment to Constitution)

[-] 3 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

The use of propaganda in the media is widely known.

It surprises me that most people still fall for it.

And then there's this one; "If you are going to lie, make it such a huge lie, that most people would doubt that it could be untrue."

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Yeah, I think that what we saw in the theater after 9-11. Actually it is still going on...

[+] -4 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

obama is their big lie.

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

We've come to accept that the prez is just for the press.

The real story happens behind closed doors.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22310) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Exactly

[-] 1 points by peacehurricane (293) 1 year ago

No closed door is a good plan to be truly transparent meetings should be seen and heard by all those interested.

[-] -3 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

bush was attacked by the press day after day for 8 years.obama has never been vetted,............ the msm covers for him. valjar is the real president.

[-] 3 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Bush was too obvious in his criminality and connections.

All hat no cattle.

[-] 0 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

obama & co are a criminal organization.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (22310) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

An inheritance from shrub. Continuance with Rino/Dino/corpoRAtist help ummm roadblocks.

[-] -3 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

barry & co. are a criminal organization unto themselves.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22310) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

The Drone war - I can't argue with that. Thank shrub for putting us there though.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

You do know bush was a fraud and a puppet, right?

[-] -3 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

and your assesment of barry is?

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

Answering a question with a question? You first.

[-] -2 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

to answer your question, i dont think that bush was either a puppet or a fraud,............your turn............what is your assesment of barry?

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

if you truly believe that, then you should do some research.

Have you ever heard of TARP?

Did you know monetary policy is used to just print money for banks? 16 trillion in bailouts in 2007-2008. GAO Audit exposed it.

Have you heard about the massive levels of civilians being killed in these wars based on lies?

Have you heard David Petraeus on Meet the Press explain why we're actually in Afghanistan?

The corporate and banking coup fully took control of the presidency with Reagan. And they've continued ever since. That's what I think of Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush jr, Obama. The corporations and banks had a great pull and a lot of control since the early 1900's, but they mastered the craft in the 80's and wealth has been accelerated to the top at the expense of workers at an accelerating rate.

Have you heard of Manufacturing Consent?

May I suggest a book to you - American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War on America

[-] -3 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

the american fascist is obama

[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

Capitalism is the real culprit actually.

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[-] -2 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

the only way for congress to stop the epa is to defund it. and they should.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

False.

[-] -2 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

the epa is a rogue agency and should be dissolved.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22310) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Thanks for the public service announcement from fossil fuel. F'n idiot.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

The EPA is under full control of the Congress. Your comment is 100% false.

Congress created the EPA. That is constitutional. The EPA is not beyond the powers of congress.

I think you're on the wrong website.

[-] -3 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

under the constitution, the epa is not allowed to make law, yet they do by calling them regulations.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

That's like saying the post office can't determine rates on package sizes and stamps.

Congress created the EPA. That is constitutional. Also they are not beyond the powers of congress.

[-] -3 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

capitalism is a great system if allowed to work. the govt has screwed it up with laws ( epa regulations that are really law which they are not empowered to do so by the constitution)

[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

Your suggestion is to just allow infinite pollution and that will save the economy?

[-] 1 points by KevinPotts (368) 1 year ago

Good one lol "Next question?" umm...How do we survive without jobs and food? I've been trying to figure that one out lately...and the only answer I keep coming up with is fairly simple but depressing: "We don't" lol

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Good point. I'm more conversant with surviving in the wild than most people I know, and while it is possible to exist for weeks without sustenance, other than water, most people would panic without their daily fix of junk food.

Would there be looting and violence and murder? For sure. It doesn't take much for the thin veneer of civility to revert to barbarity, when hunger and provision for one's own family come to the fore.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (22310) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Would there be looting and violence and murder? For sure. It doesn't take much for the thin veneer of civility to revert to barbarity, when hunger and provision for one's own family come to the fore.

Hence - violence in poverty.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22310) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Are Goanna good eating?

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Yes, we call them Barneys.

I've been looking into the Primal diet, and giving that a go.

Also experimenting with Zeer refrigeration, which is still used in Africa, where there is no power.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22310) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Barneys? are the kids ok with that? I mean I am - ever catch part of a show? (shudder)

Looks like they carry a good load of meat.

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

City kids would rarely see a goanna these days.

The introduction of the cane toad wiped out most of the really large goanna species (the ones worth eating) and it is only in our remote northwest, and drier desert regions where the big barneys still get hunted as a food source.

The best "bush tucker" I've tried was a banded sea snake.

There's so many feral donkeys, goats, horses, camels, and buffalo in our tropics and deserts that starving to death would be difficult.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22310) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

banded sea snake?

Careful harvesting that one.

There's so many feral donkeys, goats, horses, camels, and buffalo in our tropics and deserts that starving to death would be difficult.

Yeah and when they started logging in Mn - they thought that they would be able to do so forever. Amazing how fast things can disappear.

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

They used to cull the donkeys and camels, but I haven't heard of it happening for ages. There's also several species of deer, and most of our larger cattle stations are unfenced, so if TSHTF here, I'd be heading back to the Kimberley. Plentiful water, and lots of seafood as well.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (22310) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Keep an eye on that desert region of yours - would not want to see that monster grow.

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

It's a harsh climate.

Not for everybody.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22310) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Remember boil dump the water on your fiddle-heads and then boil again.

People lets be careful out there.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

THOSE WHO CAN – DO
THOSE WHO CAN’T - RANT

1►
learn as much as you can about the numbers that show the solutions

2►
demand a plan:

http://www.youtube.com/user/maigcoalition
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Za8SOVuGHs&list=UUu4Q7iE0z1Jw7yUjs56dvXA&index=1

alex jones – without his straight jacket!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XZvMwcluEg&feature=endscreen&NR=1

3►
WRITE CONGRESS:

find your congresspeople
house:
http://www.house.gov/representatives/find/
senate:
http://www.senate.gov/reference/common/faq/How_to_contact_senators.htm
VP Joe Biden, Gun Panel, 1600 Pennsylvania Av, Washington DC 20006


╬═╬═╬═╬═╬═╬═╬═╬═╬═╬═╬═╬═╬═╬═╬═╬═╬═╬═╬═╬═╬═╬


Dear ............................:

[ _ Y.O.U.R...I.N.T.R.O...H.E.R.E_ ]

While some people may want to confiscate guns, here is a much more feasible approach. It will not solve all gun problems, but it will
reduce the number of guns
and that will reduce the number of dangerous people who have access to guns - and isn't THAT our real goal?

My proposal - for a NATIONAL gun law for all guns & owners:
My four points are SIMPLY based on seeing a logical parallel between cars & guns.

Please consider advocating these four steps below to help America with our gun disasters:


1►
all gun owners must be licensed & tested with all guns they own and pass a written test.

If you own a motor cycle, a dump truck, and a car - you are tested in each.
Require a written gun test - to guarantee the owner's understanding of gun laws thus
being forced to know the law - via the test – also means the police know who you are - and you may be less likely to commit a crime or be careless storing your guns

2►
every year, you must prove that you have gun liability insurance &
be background checked and prove that your gun is properly locked when not used.

Insurance should be at least as high as car insurance [ I would like at least $1,000,000 ]
You must prove your car insurance.
Annual ( fee ) back ground check to verify your suitability to own guns.
Every gun must be locked in a gun case or have a trigger lock.

3►
as the owner of a gun, you are legally responsible for what is done with it.

You are required to report if your gun is missing within 48 hours,
The owner will be much less likely to leave a gun accessible to a family member or thief.

4►
every gun must be registered and tested & a sample fired bullet stored by the police

Knowing that your gun & its bullets are so easily traced will make you think before using it.

additionally -

Gun fees [ licenses fees & registration fees & fines ] should be
high enough to create a very substantial gun buy-back program

Penalties must be very high in money & jail time -
especially after the first offense

No citizens ( except dealers & collectors ) need more than a small number of guns

Gun fees should be higher for more guns & for bigger guns.

The nra will fight against this –
but will be balanced by the insurance companies fighting for it

But the nra may be in favor of this when the gun companies understand that gun owners
can get paid to turn in their old gun and will be able to buy a new gun -
with an INTEGRATED lock .

If we legalize drugs, we will clear out jail cells to fill with gun law breakers and
free up police "time" for real crime investigation

We WILL get higher compliance and lower opposition if we use high fees & buyback.
Take a position of reducing guns, like assault weapons such as semi-automatic rifles -
rather than punishing a gun nut who spent $10,000 on an armory.

***


Some real 2011 / 2012 gun statistics:

Americans own almost half of all civilian owned guns in the world.
Per 100,000: America: 88,880 guns owned ; 2.97 homicides Per 100,000
Per 100,000: England.…: 6,200 guns owned ; 0.07 homicides Per 100,000
Per 100,000: Austrailia: 15,000 guns owned ; 0.14 homicides Per 100,000
Per 100,000: Canada…: 30,800 guns owned ; 0.51 homicides Per 100,000
Per 100,000: France….: 31,000 guns owned ; 0.06 homicides Per 100,000
Per 100,000: Japan……..: 1,000 guns owned ; 0.08 homicides Per 100,000
Per 100,000: Israel……..: 7,300 guns owned ; 0.90 homicides Per 100,000


http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/crime-stats/crime-statistics/period-ending-march-2012/rft-annual-trend-and-demographic-tables-2011-12.xls
The above link is to England police statistics - see table D19

Is the nra & its trolls claiming that we will fail, where England & Australia succeeded in reducing gun deaths substantially by legislation?


Statistics clearly prove that the number of guns adds to the risk of homicides.

More complex is the effect of gun laws and restrictions.

When Australia had a massacre in 1996 when 35 people were killed, gun laws were substantially strengthened and a major buy-back was instituted.
There has not been an incident in Australia since then.
Of course, they did not have the benefit of the nra.

In 2011, there were 11,000+ gun homicides in America
In 2011, there were 35 gun deaths in England

For 2011, the average Murder Rate in Death Penalty States was 4.7,
while the average Murder Rate of States without the Death Penalty was 3.1

For 2011, the murder rates were highest in red state regions:
Per 100,000: South 5.5 Midwest 4.5 West 4.2 Northeast 3.9

VERY IMPORTANT:
The 1994 gun "ban" did NOT ban assault weapons.
It banned the MANUFACTURE of assault weapons.

Scalia - yes that Scalia - has ruled the AR15s are NOT “protected” by Article 2

LBJ proposed a gun plan similar to the above 4 point plan

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