Forum Post: What is beneficial to everyone?
Posted 11 years ago on Nov. 26, 2012, 2:26 p.m. EST by billyx
(72)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Just the question
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Universal ( not for profit ) Health Care.
Universal Higher education - ( not for profit )
Universal living Wage for the lowest paying full time job - on up. ( this includes part time paying the same hourly rate - so that part timers could make up the difference with a second job )
Elimination of the need for fossil fuel - end the reason for armed strife around the world for control of dwindling resources that poison the environment.
There are more - - - -
Economic fairness via an economic system that works for ALL people, not just the wealthy and corporations, hence people over profits.
BW...I have some ideas to make a start on this that do not rely on the consent of the greedy...if you are interested I would like to chat more...BB
I wouldn't be on this forum is I wasn't interested. So, go ahead, chat.
Although I have reviewed a bunch of exchange curriencies...from time bank, local, direct exchange etc, I am less interested in them than the possibilities of creating a paradigm shift in the way needs are applied to resources. Gandhi of course said “Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed”. I sense this is correct. So what if we were able to skip the so called method of exchange money which is clearly being manipulated. Well then of course we have barter...but my experience has shown me that this still can force power in the direction of the strong...rather than encouraging a nuturing spirit to all. I spent 8 years living with indigenous people in Costa Rica and spent time in NZ with indigenous there. Both cultures had a nuturing care giving spirit towards the earths resources and part of that is the removal of the concept of ownership...for many of my friends it is a foolish and destructive concept to assume ownership of anything. This is not to say that one doesn't take care or responsibility for...quiet the opposite. In this arena it is straight forward to share all resources because it isn't theirs in the first place. All they must do is show respect to nature which provides, by not wrecking it....part of that nature is the community. So why do we want to own? I think that much of it has to do with perceived scarcity because out of fear. Fear of tomorrow I feel greed an extreme of this. You may be familiar with all this...I just wanted to give a little background to why I started to look at different ways to undo the omlette as it were.
Years ago, whilst in Canada, BC I worked on some community activities and had the opportuntity to experiment with an idea
A forum for Unconditional Giving and Unconditional Receiving
Intentions behind it
So in short I set up a board in a public setting...that people could post there needs on one side and resources on the other. ie I need somewhere to live for free, I need a lawnmwer on Saturday, I need food, I need David Bwie to see my art...etc And then resources I will massage for free, Swedish lessons, etc. There was a lot of thought put into the physical functioning that I am not describing here but it worked...and I have set up others elsewhere, NZ, Costa Rica, Occupy Amsterdam. One persons need was anothers resource in many cases. B Although in the outset there were more needs cards than resources...a balance was quickly established. It seems that this way of thinking is becoming more wide spread...I have just been in Spain and have found a similar project. I would like to know your initial thoughts.
Those are all outstanding ideas. Getting people to participate is the key though because most Americans are very into their "stuff." We need to change the ethos in this country away from fearful accumulation of material goods to one of love-based sharing. If people truly believed that there is enough to go around and that people won't hoard, they might be willing to change their mindset. In fact, I think the bad economy over the past several years has made people realize that they can be happy with less.
Slow money is one movement that looks to accomplish this.
www.slowmoney.org
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slow_Money
Also, quantumystic has an excellent post about this with many great links:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/how-do-we-defeat-the-new-world-order-and-globalism/
[Deleted]
No email. Post on forum. Thank you.
For everyone to understand the difference between right and wrong and not Left and (R)ight. Imho, there are many people who have been so brainwashed by media and post-modern society that they do not possess the critical thinking skills to make that determination any longer. I'm not saying that people are inherently immoral now, but those of us who are old enough to have witnessed the transformation of our society toward stupification of the populace by the media and wanton destruction of the educational system by the power-elite who don't want a truly educated and dissenting majority can surely tell that we are not headed in the correct direction.
But there is room for hope, because alternative media and educational sources now exist on the Internet and elsewhere that did not exist "back in the day". So I am hopeful that people will retake control of their intellectual lives that have been removed through a gradual erosion process over the last 30 years or so by a purposeful campaign of the power-elite to marginalize entire populations from participating in the discussions that are necessary for a truly free and democratic society to function properly.
This is beneficial for all!
http://occupywallst.org/forum/black-friday-thurs-small-bus-sat-we-support-cyber-/
Hunger is beneficial to us all because it makes us more motivated to work extra hard to pull up our boot-straps and keep working every day for peanuts so that one day we can work our way up to the real salary or fair economic system (sarcasm) - Yes keep on working that low-wage job, and paying those minimum payments on your credit card (it's the same thing when you think about it) - My answer is banishing companies from trading on the world stock exchange who are doing criminal things around the world (We can start with Glencore) to that I must add make laws to make those criminal actions around the world illegal and make it mandatory that they lose their IPO.
Thanks...being English and as with the comment about free beer, I also appreciate the sarcasm. As long as it doesn't become cynicism of course...which is for me one of the worst kinds of egotism. I used to be work in banking...question....and with no hint of sarcasm...how would that help the CEO of Glencore? I did say everyone. there is a line of thinking I am doing here...I am not wishing to annoy you
Why do you want to help him? (I was thinking put him in jail - I'm not understanding you) what is with this whole positivist movement anyway? telling people who are on the underbelly of this economic system to hold on for the ride is really ridiculous (I'd prefer to stab the beast in the belly and call it a day) As George Carlin would say "inside every cynic is a disappointed idealist" - and these days there is a lot to be disappointed about. Aside from which I think of it as being pragmatic. As for ego? Maybe it's more like self preservation ... slightly different than ego since the changes I would want to implement would also help the whole of society, not just myself.
I think the thing is ...that none of us can see the whole picture. So if we are all part of the 1 human race that has to survive we have to be careful as to what part of us we kill. It seems much of western thought encourages removal of the cancer rather than engaging it to enable a cure. I know this seems extreme from our perspective but I am starting to suspect that this may be a more holistic way of seeing ourselves and so leaves no one behind..especially not the weak (CEO maybe fitting into this category). I am not saying stick to the status quo. An idea I guess of the positivist movement is that if something benefits everyone everyone, or most maybe most would be on board
That is what I am thinking. Make it international, universal human rights for all, including gaurunteed
end to war and violence
Demand these for all world citizens, and government is to work for these, and our other rights, not corporations.
Instead of competition cooperation. We could partner with international universities, where university Costs are less, in other countries to get medical personel.
We would encourage and support world wide, for countries that like to join in universal rights Check out this video on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3rnxQBizoU&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Great idea, free healthcare, free food and free housing. This is clearly the liberal way. gimme gimme gimme.
It's what Jesus would do
Mother Theresa
Gandhi
They wouldn't say die motherhater like you, jerk
I would not say die either but I would "maybe" encourage them to go and "find a job" and let them support their selves
Well yes but they may need temporary hand up teach to fish
Some "not all" of the currently misplaced workers could find work if they tried hard enough but their is some that will only accept a position for what they were either trained or went to college to become. Some of those people I have a hard time feeling sorry for them
I Don't know why arent flexible.
Send em ticket to scouts camp
I am glad that we can agree on one thing.
ok yes whole picture thing - we're all seeing it from our own perspective yankety yank. I'm thinking though that if most people's perspective is to get dragged along the ground or sprint to keep pace then the system we have needs a complete overhaul - maybe it all needs to come to a crashing halt before we can begin licking our wounds and starting at the same level of injury. Most of us are getting road rash while the ceo is off playing frisbee (or golf as it were) we're also talking about the size of a company that makes a difference to it's power over our government. I want to see real entrepreneurship in this nation again. Small entrepreneurs can't exist in the same world as monopolies and fortune 500 conglomerates. They either get swallowed up and go under or get bought out if they are innovative enough thus further concentrating their power. Bring back a butcher baker, candlestick maker, - local economies, small businesses, eviscerate all conglomerates and corporate charters - one tax id for every business (how's that?) Conglomerates are proven to stifle innovation - they do what is cheapest even if that means remaining as they are, or killing patents, or patenting everything then charging fees for the privilege of using to actually be an innovator. Only when we end all that can we end this forced reliancy system we have going on/ can we have an errrr - holistic - economy. The positivist movement was created by the media to keep people submissive (and give them a false - or peer pressured hope) so they don't get or act bummed out enough to complain or get angry enough or loud enough to rebel. That's what the positivist movement is. (Do not complain under any circumstance / whiners will be shot, or condemned etc etc etc.)
As far as what? Define everyone. US? Worldwide?
Whatever springs to mind that is of benefit, indirectly or indirectly for all. Everyone. You are from the US.
Clean water 4 everyone? Interesting food 4 thought;
If Children Are Our Future, I Think This Girl Just Solved It
I am not a chemist nor a physicist so I can not tell you what properties all of the ingredients to this invention have each in their own form - let alone once combined - But I am sure that if this process/invention were studied by responsible scientists - that the practicality and any drawbacks could be known in a short period of time and testing.
What's benificial to everyone is to stop looking to the government for their needs and learn to become independent. The government now spends 1 trillion dollars a year on handouts - where is the money coming from to pay for this when the GDP or the growth of the economy is only around 2%.
beneficial for everyone except career politicians.
Clean Air
Clean Water
Clean soil
Natural foods fruits vegetables grains ( ban franken foods, ban artificial food colorings, ban artificial sweeteners )
Steroid and hormone free meats
Yum yum
Free beer!
I hail from England...I by nature agree...especially if the Aussies and English drink separately... to minimise consumption, and there is no talk about politics or football from any nationality
Meet Every Inhabitant of Earths Universal Human Needs (affection would be hard to meet) and NVC nonviolent communication
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_human_needs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonviolent_Communication
http://thirdearproject.org/site/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/four-components-of-ic.pdf
Thankyou for the links...I am reading with interest and would like to discus with you more. Q...Do you believe that there might be a way that we could all live in harmony and happiness?
[Deleted]
You seem happy from where I sit...which is Sunny Spain till tmrw. Norway next. I would like to talk to you more around this subject of needs if you have interest?
One must do what they can to find their happiness. Glad you like the links.
We just need to keep tied in to focus for good of planet, now and future linked.
Jack mowing the lawn boosting on the roads, previous the audience start to prevent. http://www.mmolive.com The cops ceased him to ask: http://www.mmomesos.com/ "Why are you driving by so fast?" Port replied: "I'm sorry, my braking system bad, so I want to drive to be fixed as soon as possible, so as to prevent injuries."! ' Welcome to my site： http://www.mmohome.com
Revitalize and reorganize our education system Free Market economies consisting of: barter/trade, digital (cell) tokens, gold/silver and other precious metals, and clean markets. Equal media coverage for the movement Clean up law enforcement/ remove tyrants from office Organic Food Clean Elections Energy solutions for all
Ivy, Your first comment is one of my pet areas of interest. If you would like to discuss some ideas I've been working on ...please let me know. Billy
Beneficial? The dissolution of government, it appears, would be most beneficial.
Benefit o all? How might it benefit the well paid government official and family?
Never. You would have to dissolve as outlined in John Locke's Second Treatise of Government which is exactly what the Declaration of Independence does in the form of usurpation and abuses.
You have to do this in this manner because there are many nation-states that have studied our Constitution and, even based a bit here and there on it, they will have no respect for whatever it is that you plan on putting in place.
You will have to present whatever it is that you plan on putting in place because nature abhors a vacuum-internally and externally. Now, there are many things that the US has or is engaged in that I am firmly against. I speak fervently on those issues. Say what you will-we have the baddest military in the world. Isn't that sexy? It's really damn sexy when you have a viable threat knocking at the door. (Note that there is a difference between our regular men and women that do the job and those that make the policy and decisions for which those people that do the job may not ever get over.)
Internally, we would slide into civil war. Probably not one but many because all of that shit that has and is going down on foreign soil? The agitating? It would be foolish to think that it wouldn't happen here.
Just look at the Occupy camps...I agree
Listen, if this government doesn't alter its monetary policy, if it doesn't rein in spending, if it doesn't drastically increase taxes on EVERYBODY, this gig is up.
When the gig is up, I sincerely doubt you will see these corrupt politicians pool their money to preserve even minimal government. And the reality is that, economically, the Fed now ties the hands of the state. We are unable to address our fiscal concerns because we are unable to address economic detractors.
We would be better off without this federal government.
Explain how the state's hands are tied.
They've grown too reliant on Fed dollars, while simultaneously being forced to conform to stifling regulation. Talk to any employer, as those seeking to expand their employment agencies frequently do, and you'll here exactly that. We can't grow our economy because our hands are tied.
No, they have CHOSEN to take the money and then do not wish to be held accountable. Then the politicians trash the federal government so that they have a platform to run on, ex.: I am separate and different from those people in DC.
The states have that power and the tools right at this very moment. So, they can start putting up or shutting up. Don't take the cash. That is all any of these states can do to prove that they don't need my money.
I wish they would. But all appear heavily indebted and unable to raise taxes sufficiently.
No, all of the politicians want to be reelected.
If the government works for us, we can fire them !!
~ DECLARATION OF DISSOLUTION & TERMINATION ~
http://osixs.org/Rev2_menu_Declaration.aspx
http://osixs.org/Vote.aspx
hard to do with rigged voting machines.
Agreed ..... that's why it may come down to individual signatures on paper or another form, acceptable to the majority. In the meantime you can vote on this online petition: http://osixs.org/Vote.aspx
This petition is the trigger for a real door to door and state to state grass roots petition for an orderly assembly process to Ratify DDT and EDT in all 50 states. It is similar to the assembly process that was used to bring this nation into existence. This will allow the people to bring about real fundamental changes in government (Government 2.0 ) that is truly for the people, by the people and of the people. Otherwise, we can continue to do nothing while we sit around and watch our nation crumble.
Consider the diagram labeled "Government 2.0" on this page:
http://osixs.org/Rev2_menu_commonsense.aspx
What would be ideal might be a small government to maintain security and global management. The states and localities are generally more capable of handling local problems without revenue wastage from additional, usesless levels of upper burocracy. (crappy spelling aside)
Nah Some states always wind up screwin "certain people" without the rest of us (through our Fed govt) telling them how to behave.
How about self governance in the meantime...of ourselves personally, and small groups? Despite...the imposed control everywhere
As long as there are mechanisms in place to prevent discrimination, we all want self governance (I think)
Direct democracy is the term/idea I hear most often in that regard. True direct democracy can provide better self governance than we pretend to have now.
I think we are some way away from that.
Not sure this is the direction...even in small working groups at Occupy consensus was difficult to achieve. I feel we have to dissolve the discrimination ourselves...for starting with me, of course
I agree "we have to dissolve the discrimination ourselves", I also recognize that history shows us some of us must be watched.
So I repeat, there must be mechanism in place to prevent discrimination however small/large our governing bodies are.
I agree the consensus process I have witnessed at OWS Assemblies does not appear to be workable. Some version can emerge that allows all views but does not require unanimity. Basic majority votes should apply, and ALL should vote.
That was the intent and vision of the Founders, yea. At this point I think our best bet is to dissolve it entirely and create anew. Tell me something, would a dictator with a term limit of say one single six year term, spend more or less? Typically, the core of dictatorship contracts; it is a smaller entity at the top. Congress though affords so many opportunities which no president can contain.
You sound like an idiot. "dictator"? "dissolve" ? "founders"? Who cares what those racist elitists would do? And you certainly don't know.
Brothers...please. Here might be some food for thought...it is from an earlier post on what is beneficial to all http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_human_needs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonviolent_Communication http://thirdearproject.org/site/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/four-components-of-ic.pdf
I'll have to work on my communications skills. Thx
This is what is beneficial to all.!
http://occupywallst.org/forum/black-friday-thurs-small-bus-sat-we-support-cyber-/
Me too..Thanks VQ
I've made enormous efforts in the past 5 months to remain civil and encourage civility.
I got no support at all from our fellow forum posters. So I succumbed just recently, to the name calling vulgarity that seems to be commonly accepted.
I may make another effort at being civil. Maybe.
'Tis the season. Right?
How do you manage to go through life hating white people? Do you ever wander out of the cave? Or is that simply too dangerous a thought for you?
Yup, an electable dictator. One six year term.
I don't hate anyone (in fact I recall some white teachers I loved! LOL)
I'm half Italian myself so obviously I don't hate white people. In fact being mixed provides me with a means of understanding all peoples and avoiding the hate that infects so many of us.
Do you hate city people?
The Leftist city dweller is a hypocrite. Life is just too easy in the Big Easy.
New Orleans? What does the Big Easy have to do with anything.? I would submit life has been pretty tough for low income people in the big easy (NewOrleans).
Have you dwelled in the city for many years?
All cities are big easys. There is easy and plentiful employment... no care of transportation; no need to maintain a home; no concern for energy... it goes on and on but there is a reason the poor have flocked to cities for thousands of years.
But outside the city there are very real concerns; simply put, we are closer to all that threatens.
"all that threatens"? Did you fall off your chair.? Threatens what?
How long have you dwelled in the city?
All that threatens our very survival.
And you know what they say, if you can't make it in NY, you can't make it anywhere. I see that as a universal truism, a wild old adage. Many have made their fortune in NY and very few starve.
If you can't make it there, you're going to have a very hard time making it in a rural environment.
Yeah the saying is "if you CAN make it there, you CAN make it ANYWHERE"
LOL. What a moron.
How long have you dwelled in the city.?
The reality is that people have been flocking to cities for an easier life for thousands of years.
Some here have insinuated that white folk are advantaged, well I can one-up ya - city dwellers are even more advantaged which has the effect of ameliorating racial disadvantage.
No matter, we are prejudicial - the cities have been viewed as the primary source of all disease, crime, corruption, etc. in the US since it's inception; it has roots in the plague.
Who's pickin all the farm produce if not migrant workers?
here we rely on migrant workers because farms are far away and messy.
if we had open borders, anyone could pick the produce.
My daughter is with an avacodo picker in mexico. he has to ride 2 hours standing up in back of large open truck one way to get to work site. makes about 5 bucks a day. and about half the time there is no work, due to season/growing
many people would like to pick our food if we had open borders
farms used to be closer, now suburbs go quite a ways into country. wed get on old bus at 6 in morning at 10 years old and pick strawberries till 2:30. good place to start learning value of work.
So migrant workers are not going to farms.? LOL
Not any more, no.
also they flock to city cause cant compete with big corporate agriculture, and cant get livable wage that pays for their crops, and covers when crops fail
So much wrong with that.
Do not!
Very true, the migrant workers are flocking to the cities.
You don't know what you're talkin about. You just sound more and more stupid.
Yes, I very much do know what I am talking about.
Brothers...please. Here might be some food for thought...it is from an earlier post on what is beneficial to all http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_human_needs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonviolent_Communication http://thirdearproject.org/site/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/four-components-of-ic.pdf
1-
Getting everyone to agree on what would be beneficial to everyone.
I laughed...thanks for the comment. I would love to work with you and discuss more. Question...Although we might not be aware of what may be beneficial to everyone...do you think there might be such a truth?
Is this NOT the crux of every civil debate? If ALL people agreed upon all things-there would be no debates, no wars, no arguments, no need for OWS or any other organization.
If something is not beneficial to everyone, then by default we must admit that the thing cannot or will not be beneficial to "some" people.
If a society insists that NOTHING can be done unless it benefits everyone, then all things must be ignored that do not meet that criteria.
No GMO foods.
Tax low, cut spending, and go back to individualism. People need to remember that they are capable of immense goals and they are people who want to give them the means, not the goal itself
Located a great individualist low tax place for you. Afganistan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_as_percentage_of_GDP
Iran and Libya may also fit the description.
Tax increases on the wealthy, & bug business. Cut taxes/debt for working class.
How far back do you have to go to avoid taxes? They were complaining of this thousands of years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_%26_Taxes
http://www.uic.edu/classes/socw/socw550/HISWEL/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax
I do not mind paying taxes. My idea of fair share would be everyone pay tax and the government spend taxes wisely. We are 0 for 2 on that score
Those concerns are valid IMHO
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/11/03/360185/30-corporations-no-taxes/?mobile=wt
http://www.dailyfinance.com/2012/06/05/wealthy-pay-no-taxes-muni-bonds-deductions-1-percent/
http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/15/politics/coburn-government-waste/index.html
Honestly, the day NASA went out into space and took a picture of our planet should have been the eve of destruction of an individualistic ethos. To see how small and insignificant this rock is, should have been a wake up call that we are in this together. The days of the rugged individual and the wide open frontiers should, out of necessity,be seen as no longer applicable.
Together...now I like that. In England we talk about peoples inability to organise 'a piss up in a brewery' Do you have any ideas how that togetherness might be created?
Education, education, education. It's been my understanding that, as humans, we are quick to demonize those that we know little about. It is when we learn to understand what makes the other tick that we are willing to cooperate with them. Though I believe education is a big part of enabling cooperation, another attribute needed is the ability to be humble, and that one, well, it's a mystery to me.
Sadly, the ego is a mighty strong force of nature it seems and enlightened self interests are not easy to obtain.
It's funny how the rich find it so easy to cooperate but the working class find it almost impossible. Maybe that is why they are whooping our ass politically.
All the average Joes and Janes buying into the individualistic ethos, while the rich have evolved past such a horse and buggy frame of mind. You don't see us having a national working class symposium like the wealthy have their annual billionaires meeting. But at last, it is what it is. So what's your thoughts on the subject?
Jesse...My feeling is that one of the things we benefit from is togetherness. On the Occupy camps, with all the diverse opinions there was something underlying the activity that gave so many a feeling of being connected. I feel that this might be a core starting point for some major change...but it seems only sustainable if we discard our differences and differences of opinion. The humility part therefore is vital...but rather than a show of weakness... it is a strengthening of the whole. That togetherness is an inspiration to all...and attractive to the masses.
Time. Time is the reason. Part of the advantage of a constantly hungry population is that they have little to no time for these things. Occupy has experienced this fist hand through this website and twitter. Thousands of would be participants have no time and no money to travel. Your idea that I'm an idiot and that is why I cannot find time for my neighbor....
A rugged individual still has a place in this world. Each individual contributes a vital component of each global project. Global projects are put together of groups of INDIVIDUALS, each with a vital tidbid of knowledge and each one indispensible to the group. A group is not a mindless mob in the street.
the dems want people to be dependent, not independent.so much easier to control them when you give them everything.