Forum Post: What a Crock of Shit
Posted 10 years ago on Jan. 7, 2014, 4:41 p.m. EST by ZenDogTroll
(13032)
from South Burlington, VT
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Both Parties Are the Same
my ass
There is a very clear distinction between them. Conservatives have an ideology all their own, and it does not include you - except in so far as you may be put to use to further their own bottom line. And make no mistake, it is conservatives of one stripe or the other that control the repelican party machine.
You could - were you a both parties are the same proponent - examine for yourself the legacy of FDR, the statements made by conservatives regarding his legacy, and the efforts of the repelican machine to systematically dismantle that legacy. Were you not indifferent or too lazy that is.
You could also examine the social policies of LBJ, the conservative reaction to those policies, and again, the efforts of the repelican machine to systematically dismantle that legacy.
Were you not indifferent or too lazy.
Men like Boner demand spending cuts to offset any expansions to the safety net - a demand not heard during the eight long years of total and complete BUSHITE which saw us launch war on two fronts . . .
But never mind. Never mind the stark difference in social policy. Never mind. After all, Charlie Rose insists: you {President Obama} have simply continued the policies of Bush/Cheney and in the CBS commercial for their morning program he is seen to ask: how does that make you feel?
The lame stream media {Sarabou's term, not mine} panders to OWS dogma, and no one questions it.
Fuk you.
Fuk Boner.
and Fuck Charlie Rose.
He may not have created that commercial, and may have had no hand in the editing - and I don't much care. His silence says it all.
This article is over two years old but posters here probably don't read many articles from this publication.
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/ralph-naders-grand-alliance/
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I don't understand how I made your point! The first paragraph describes Ralph Nader, (a longtime progressive), claiming that the democrat establishment is just as bad as the republicans.
The word establishment is key, as Nader obviously agrees much more with the message of democrats than republicans. He understands that the Democratic Party Establishment exists to protect the 1% just as much as any republican group. His focus is now on battling the Corporate State.
The article interested me with Nader pointing out that Libertarians were in agreement with progressives on several important issues. An alliance with libertarians, (who I perceive as lacking empathy), is not something I had considered.
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Again, I'm trying to make a different point from the point you made in your original post. Both parties are not the same, but both parties are for the same purpose, the Corporate State.
Ron Paul would never get my vote for not assuring everyone that a sick person would get medical care.
Libertarians like Ron Paul are considered republicans, but the article points out several issues where libertarians agree with progressives much more strongly than establishment or tea bagger republicans. That's hopeful news for OWS!
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lol I feel like I'm in junior high again. Dingleberries for all!
high in junior high
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No, junior high stuff isn't funny anymore. Santa Claus taught me that it was possible to be a little bit libertarian, but I don't think I am. I'm like you, I just don't trust in the Democratic Party. I'll let you respond and get the last word.
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The GOP work for the wealthy. Their chief concern is that the children of the wealthy and their children’s children for as far as eye can see can live in safety and wealth. Watch the 47% video again full version most interesting part is when Romney talks about his will to endear himself to group of rich folks there. It is always about the children, the wealthy need to make sure that their wealth will be protected from the hungry masses. Things like paying for health care for everybody threatens that, at least in their eyes. When thought though from "death tax" to cap gain tax and dividend tax, the whole system the GOP wants to bring about is a full Return of the King. It amazes me people don't see that.
The Full 47% 'Romoney' Video :
P1/2 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ge03Sys8SdA ;
P2/2 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBj0joyCeag and
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/sep/24/mitt-romney-self-creation-myth?INTCMP=SRCH +
http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/21139-dark-affinities-liberal-and-neo-liberal & finally ...
http://media.cq.com/50richest/the-50-richest-members-of-congress-113th-2013.html .
Also consider - as the last two links clearly show ... IF ONLY it were just JUST The GOP !!!
"The essence of oligarchical rule is not father-to-son inheritance, but the persistence of a certain world-view and a certain way of life ... A ruling group is a ruling group so long as it can nominate its successors ... Who wields power is not important, provided that the hierarchical structure remains always the same." (George Orwell, ''1984'')
respice, adspice, prospice ...
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That same definition fits well for Democraps too.
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We don't believe, "both parties are the same", in every detail. It's clear the dems have the best words, but I recognize both parties as sub-parties of corporatism.
I agree with Chris Hedges, Ralph Nader, and many others that a stronger change is needed than electing more dems, we've got to change the world.
That was well put windy. It would not be a stretch to say that most people in Occupy agree with you. It's just the partisan hacks who don't like you saying anything like that.
So what are you and windy running for and where?
You're asking the wrong question, it won't help to join in on the corporate controlled process. I can understand others believing that because it's the only process offered, try and make the best of it, but I'm over that now.
The process has regressed where the survival theme of elected officials now is, "who can be safely ignored".
And this provides a way forward, how?
How will it negate the need for "rape insurance", for instance?
How will it remove the influence of folks like the Koch's from the system?
Does it even admit that they do?
It provides a way forward by waking people up to what you and I know about the world. The waking up is occurring but we're getting tired of waiting for it, and taking our eyes off our goals. Convincing others that even though dems look and sound better, they're really the same as repubs when it comes to the hope and change we want.
Do more than be a dingleberry.
lol I will be proud if I make it to dingleberry!
"America's Duopoly of Money in Politics and Manipulation of Public Opinion", by Charles Ferguson (Director/Producer of * 'INSIDE JOB') :
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/oct/03/america-duopoly-money-politics ;
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article32655.htm [alt.link&font]
'An Expanded ''Heist'' Trailer for the 99%' by Thom Hartmann : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltNaDDQZ07k &
'Inside Job' * : http://vimeo.com/20853241 .
respice ; adspice ; prospice ...
Public opinion would be against a corporate state using a two party political system to govern the country. Most people still believe in the current process, and dingleberries everywhere should be shouting about this problem.
yEP !!! Thom Hartmann's narration on the ''Heist'' is strongly recommended to you here windy. It's all a question of education @ this stage. Which is why OWS was meant to be. Then us 99% dingleberries can get together and make a large, full bodied, whine before we rethink deMOCKERYcy & rearrange demoCRAZY and finally reclaim .. Democracy !! Otherwise, very sadly it's that ''F'' word for sure ! :-/
Again : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltNaDDQZ07k &
http://occupywallst.org/forum/how-do-we-fight-capitalism/ .
Solidarity & HNY @ you & yours. The struggle continues ..
Sail this ship to and through the Stars - like now ...
per ardua ad astra
Do I really need to insert all the links to events in Michigan, Wisconsin, or even N. Carolina?
Again?
What are we "running for...?" (??)....err nothing.
Perhaps the better question is, 'Who are YOU working for?!?!'
I'm not.
How about you?
You're not on their payroll?... good!...then can I assume that being the objective soul that you must be, you see Neo-Democrappyans as being in the same league as libe(R)topians.
OIC, conversation is happening and you can't stand it.
Yawn.
Predictable.
Pardon me??
Who did you say you work for?
CATO?
Heritage?
Mackinac center?
There seems to be a point of confusion here.
No one anywhere is as bad as the libe(R)topians.
They're Worldwide.
A concept that has so far eluded you, perhaps?
Ah yes, I am aware of your strange logic. Let's see...anyone who is not a partisan Democrap is a right winger....right??
From that twisted logic, can we assume that some of the biggest supporters of Occupy like, Hedges, Goldstein, Flowers, Zeese, O'Neil and Wolff (but to name a few) are all libe(R)topians??!!
My, my shooz you do have an active mind. I'll think of you the next time I see that bumper sticker, "Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you." lol
What strange logic are you talking about, and what does it have to do with your desire to always "be in lock step"? ( why did you leave that conversation in the first place?)
Strange logic is in all those conclusions you've come to.
In fact, your response has absolutely nothing in common with the subject at hand, nor the questions I asked you.
hOw strange is that?
Very strange.
Am I correct in saying that you view nearly everyone on here who is not a Democrap as being a libe(R)topian?? I think so as time and again, you and your cohorts have implied that, or flat out stated it.
So it is an easy extrapolation for me or anyone else to see how your mind works when it comes to our kindred spirits, ie Hedges, Goldstein, Wolff etc. They are all libe(R)topians too....right?!
And BTW my replies have everything to so with the "strange" comments that you make.
Being on the left coast (with the time difference) , I've noticed that your multiple pseudonyms arrive in the wee hours to straighten things out. That's cute, and a clear sign of desperation on your part in trying to co-opt Occupy. We can't have non-partisans, especially shadz in the best comments, can we?!
Hey, check this out:
http://www.popularresistance.org/open-letter-to-ows-you-were-right-all-along/
From which I excerpt:
"There is a vast total-information-awareness surveillance network made up of global corporations and subservient (captured) governments engaging in the systematic infiltration and suppression of social justice activist groups. Their main method of control is the implementation of divide-and-conquer strategies. When it comes to activists, their approach is to apply these strategies to what they have defined as four distinct groups: Radicals, who see the system as corrupt are marginalized and discredited with character assassination techniques. Realists, who can be convinced that real change is not possible. Idealists, who can be convinced (through propaganda) that they have the facts wrong. And Opportunists, who are in it for themselves and therefore can be easily co-opted."
Now, far be it for me to claim there are any paid infiltrators on this site. Perhaps the character assassinations of the radicals on this site is just part of certain forum members personalities.
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You're welcome, and I agree.
Great comment and excerpt !!! Also fyi, I'll cross link to :
multum in parvo ...
Thanks for that cross-link, shadz. I was trying to find that Zeese/Flowers article but couldn't remember the title, since it dovetails rather well with my link, which I'm thinking of making its own post. I'll be using a different excerpt, though. ;-)
As a stand-alone post, I think the focus should be on the positive aspect of that article.
''Humans are social beings, and the kind of creature that a person becomes depends crucially on the social, cultural and institutional circumstances of his (or her) life.
''We are therefore led to inquire into the social arrangements that are conducive to people's rights and welfare, and to fulfilling their just aspirations - in brief, the common good.
''About 70 percent of the population, at the lower end of the wealth/income scale, has no influence on policy ... Moving up the scale, influence slowly increases. At the very top are those who pretty much determine policy, by means that aren't obscure. The resulting system is not democracy but plutocracy.'' Briefly excerpted from :
Glad to oblige with the two Flowers and Zeese articles which are as excellent and revelatory as they are uplifting & I very much agree with any thoughts that you may have re. ''a stand alone post''. The thought had crossed my mind but I don't have time or headspace to nurture a 'forum-post' right now. I think that you'll find the Chomsky item above will act like a scholarly prequel to those Flowers and Zeese articles.
consilio et animis ...
http://www.timesofisrael.com/how-american-taxpayers-are-funding-palestinian-terrorism/#ixzz2peNMIZHf
http://www.waragainsttheweak.com/
boy are you a sad little shit. is everything related to your beloved military state of Israel? not sure what is more disgusting - your promotion of the worst elements of Zionism or you worship of Obama. it's the Zionism that is more disgusting right - Obama is attacking 5 countries today (is it 6?) but not in the same brutal way israel is occupying one. and for how long now? don't bother responding - I can do it for you - "eat shit and die you troll" or maybe the ever reliable "go fuck yourself"
"Democrats and Republicans in Congress were about equally wealthy, with Democrats boasting a median net worth of $1.04 million, compared to $1 million for congressional Republicans."
Hey flip, check this article out:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/10/us/politics/more-than-half-the-members-of-congress-are-millionaires-analysis-finds.html?ref=todayspaper&_r=0
Seems the 1% doesn't know the difference between Democrats and Republicans. Go figure. Just like their policies.
Did you need to pull out another one of your IDs? You got nothing. Again.
Hmmmmmm.
Why do you never mention how many States in the Union are under attack by our very own right wing?
Here's one from today.
http://crooksandliars.com/2014/01/virginia-anticipates-need-more-prison-beds
And this is without even mentioning Michigan.
''The Banality Of Evil'' (Hannah Arendt) and ... 'The Serenity Of Conscience' (le petit moi) :
http://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/ & also see ..
http://www.annainthemiddleeast.com/index.html .
Let's not do this here now on ZD's thread GF but I will see you back on yours - very soon.
e tenebris, lux ...
http://www.waragainsttheweak.com/
http://www.timesofisrael.com/how-american-taxpayers-are-funding-palestinian-terrorism/#ixzz2peNMIZHf
Props for sticking it to them, Gno.
All I'm seeing here this week, is absolute tyranny.
Is Jart aware that these fixated fools are playing God on her forum?
Is someone in contact with her about this?
The forum does seem to have developed a "divided" feel to it over time, hasn't it?
It's my understanding that Jart is pretty selective as to who she'll talk to, unfortunately.
Yeah, well, from what I'm seeing this last week, snooz thinks it's gawd, the dawg thinks it's gawd, and the bitch thinks it's gawd.
Hopefully, there's gonna be some skyrockets in gawd town while they belt eachother senseless.
Meanwhile, back at the ranch, shit is going down.
Such a pity that these indescribables aren't interested.
Nero fiddles while Rome burns.
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"co opt occupy". Pls do not confuse this forum with the movement.
Democrap shills camp out here and carpet bomb this forum with their establishment worship. OWS has always maintained they do NOT support any political establishment. Yet this forum is infested with duopoly supporters. The DemoCraps, RepubliCONs, and Libe(R/D)topians cannot solve our problems, they are our problems.
I agree and agree with your thread today on that very subject (no doubt inspired by this one). I have voted for 3rd party candidates since the 80's. SOMEDAY, someone will win. Best to probably work state and local first. Getting a 3rd party Potus will take some time
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You're right. I stand corrected.
You are incorrect.
In all ways so far.
be careful with the concern trolling.
Incorrect and getting stranger.
Please elaborate on how I am "incorrect"
What is the difference between the posters on here that either you or your cohorts label "libe(R)topians", and say Hedges, O'Neil, Goldstein and/or Wolff??
Do you feel that all the posters who do not buy your partisan line of bullshit are libe(R)topians?! It would seem that way.
So why give those people who are kindred spirits, but not on the forum a pass?...'Cause if you follow your line of reasoning, they must be f..ing libe(R)topians too!
And BTW, what exactly is "concern trolling?" Is that another thing that you made up & deploy to save face for when you find yourself losing a debate...big time.
I agree tho... this is "strange!!"
You have been incorrect, in everything you've said so far.
With the possible exception of your desire for everyone to be in lockstep.
( you do seem to endorse that desire)
Machine gun, illogical statements and questions, can't save you now.
Replying here. Tell me shooz..how many partisan Democraps have you banned? I can't think of any!! Even a Democrap poster here who told another poster to put a gun in his mouth is back being as obnoxious as ever.
Then tell me how many posters on here that were not partisan Democraps, and spoke out strongly, but not profanely in not being so have you banned? The answer is tons.
My point: YOU!! are the one who wants us to be all "lockstep" Democraps!!
For me; I would be happy if everyone was able to express their ideas freely; I would be very pleased if you did not have a double-standard in who you decide should get banned, and I would be ecstatic if you did not tolerate the profanity that is directed mostly at non-partisans on here.
I do realize that your hands are tied though as you have an agenda to carry out that has little to do with the success of this movement.
You mean profanity like: Fuck off, you multiple ID cockroach?
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I couldn't agree more.
This is not a reply to anything.
This is definitely "concern trolling".
Who is it, you're pretending you used to be around here?
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Unable to answer my simple question.. no problem, I understand. I'll just take it, that anyone who is not a partisan Democrap is a damn libe(R)topian...in your mind of course.
Revolutionaries are rarely in "lockstep." Being so is the MO of the timid and/or cowardly.
Are you gearing up for your revolutionary trip to the voting booth to vote for the same bribed party who has sold us out time and again
Actually, I already did answer it.
You just keep repeating yourself, as though I didn't.
It's YOU, who expects me to be in lockstep with you.
If you don't want to vote, that's your prerogative.
I'm sorry you get lost in conversation so easily
Go fly a kite.
You'd make more impact on the global situation that way.
Hey, man are you ok? I just heard about you Doctors pull ‘large’ cockroach from Australian man’s ear in 10-minute procedure
The cockroach was trying to escape.
Replying here. Yes, that's it. That is the kind of profanity that I am talking about. Of course being a protected Democrap shill with impunity from being banned, you would never need to have another pseudonym (would you??), well other than the cadre you & the other Democraps have for up-voting your fellow shills & down-voting those who disagree with your Democrappyan bs
And btw, as evidenced by your sewer-mouth and your support of the neocons in Zionist Israel, YOU are light years away from being a paragon of virtue...really...lol
Just out of interest, tell me; Is your point total the most important thing in your life? I suspect so, and that is truly sad.
Let's set the record straight here. Columbiavalley is not a concern troll. He's nothing of the sort. He is a real occupier, who attends Occupy events, whose heart is in the right place, whose politics are clearly on the side of Occupy, who has been banned over and over again due to grudges and vindictiveness by the forum's moderators. That is the only reason he has several monikers. He is a stalwart Occupier in every sense of the word.
From the NY Times:
"Democrats and Republicans in Congress were about equally wealthy, with Democrats boasting a median net worth of $1.04 million, compared to $1 million for congressional Republicans."
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/10/us/politics/more-than-half-the-members-of-congress-are-millionaires-analysis-finds.html?ref=todayspaper
Seems the 1% can't distinguish between Democrats and Republicans. That's why it's so hard to distinguish their policies in any meaningful way. They have the very same interests.
Stay steadfast. Occupy Wall Street! Never give up!
I'm an independent. I can't stand teathuglicans. I don't like blue dogs either. There are precious few democrats that I like. But, you knew that. You're just a repetitive dirtbag.
Yawn-support of the neo cons?-----you bitches played and you lost. Like you do. You don't have pseudonyms. You run multiple IDs. And bots.
And you don't like it when you get called out. How unfortunate.
Yoo hoo!
Mr. Concern troll.
You never answered my question.
Do you have an actual issue to talk about?
[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (19922) 3 minutes ago
Let's set the record straight here. Columbiavalley is not a concern troll. He's nothing of the sort. He is a real occupier, who attends Occupy events, whose heart is in the right place, whose politics are clearly on the side of Occupy, who has been banned over and over again due to grudges and vindictiveness by the forum's moderators. That is the only reason he has several monikers. He is a stalwart Occupier in every sense of the word. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink
Bullshit. At any point, he could have gone to Jart.
The other chap was your puppet?
I didn't know.
If your're really writing a book, will you be leaving that part out?
[-] 2 points by shooz (25774) 1 minute ago
Hmmmmmm.
Why do you never mention how many States in the Union are under attack by our very own right wing?
Here's one from today.
http://crooksandliars.com/2014/01/virginia-anticipates-need-more-prison-beds
And this is without even mentioning Michigan. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink
Don't expect anything remotely resembling a sane answer. He was aware that his last gamble was going to cost him. He played and he lost.
He isn't here for anything remotely close to acknowledging this. He lost ground some four months ago and they can't get it back.
Few seem to notice that it was the aftermath of the Sandy Hook gun nutters invasion of the forum, that really created a vacuum here.
They chased off so many posters, it isn't funny.
On the other hand, it did expose all the remaining concern trolls.
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It wont put it in writing. It would mean a pay cut.
Of course, "it" openly admits it hasnt had a few hours out of two years to participate, so who knows whats up.
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Yes, History would be much different if Nader hadn't run for president. I wish I would have listened to him back then. He says now that corporatism is the problem and not political parties, and I agree.
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US policy of military aggression has not changed
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fair enough
They pretend to hold different social values to keep the citizens split. They have no true values of their own other than greed and self interest. You really believe LBJ (or JFK, for that matter) waged a war on poverty and racism because they felt it right in their heart of hearts? No, they believed it to be the politically right thing to do. As LBJ famously bragged he'd have them niggers voting Dem for the next 100 years....he's 1/2 way there, which is mighty ironic given that all the Great Society stuff passed with Republican support. You know, the party of Abe Lincoln.
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Are you stirrin' up the duopolists again?
Of course they're not the same. That's why stuff about Detroit and Michigan, gets ignored, even though it's a picture in motion about how and why they are not the same.
Something almost every week.
They only way they appear the same, is when you are looking down the throat of the MIC.
So few seem to fully understand what Eisenhower was describing.
Oh, it's also why they hate the truth in the statement.
As go the States, so goes the Nation.
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LOL
What the hell.
It's not like they've ever calmed down anyway.
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'Splaining it, 12 ways to Sunday hasn't helped a bit.
It's a handy, thought free, off the shelf distraction.
Plus it sounds all revolutionaryish.
It just goes hand in hand with their black and white thought process.
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I haven't seen the commercial or Charlie Rose.
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Hey, Shooz. I can't reply to your last .......replies. So, can you have a look-see here: http://occupywallst.org/forum/what-a-crock-of-shit/#comment-1017502
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[-] 1 points by go4broke (40) 20 hours ago
ME a "liar"? ..NO, At worse, I have drawn the wrong assumption from your silence concerning Ms Friday's support of Israel, and their brutal suppression of the Palestinians.
You can bet your ass though if kindred spirits like shadz, Renneye or beautifulworld put up a thread and/or comments in support of a government that treated a near defenseless people in such an inhumane way, I would not hesitate in the least in criticizing them severely. Please feel free to call me on it if I don't.
Instead...YOU overlook it! Why? 'Cause she is a fellow proselytizing Democrat and there ain't many left here, that's why.
And for better or worse, I have no idea
Replying to you here. You don't give a fuck about the Palestinians. You are the biggest war mongering piece of shit that has hit the site. You and Shadz-of-stank. What you mean is NO WAR with your fingers crossed behind your back. That's what you mean. You support terrorists AND you aren't bright enough to figure out that the ideology behind a few of these groups does not allow for any type of peace. Nor are you smart enough to figure out that those groups do NOT represent all of the Palestinians. That's not liberal. That's shit.
Have a little patience my old friend.
Like someone around here once said. (me)
No "one" here represents OWS.
OWS, is an amalgamation of all of it's protesters and supporters.
Candidates are coming to the forefront.
One in Seattle. already elected.
One to run in Michigan.
And now?
One to run in California.
http://www.occupy.com/article/austerity-abundance-why-i-am-running-california-treasurer
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I know ZD, but it took decades to get this bad.
That candidates are being fielded already is a good sign.
That one's been elected an even better sign.
My wife finally signed a petition today from movetoamend.
You know I'm in complete agreement with you on global warming.
It's one of those things I like to toss at the duopolists from time to time.
What party is most active in climate change denial?
Did you see what they are actually teaching down in Texas?
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http://www.liberalamerica.org/2013/11/15/nine-crazy-tea-party-incidents-special-texas-edition/
Plus it gave us the Rand.......er Paul boys.
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That was absolutely why. Those people really are completely insane.
Wasn't that why the President of France declined to get involved and we got american fries?
A mention of gog and magog in a phone call from Bush?
It would seem that insanity is an accepted state of being to some of those folks.
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When I lived in Arizona, I knew the majority were bat shit crazy. Then I moved to Texas to be near my grandchildren. Now I know how insanity is amplified by mid double digit IQs.
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Libe(R)tarians, know no shame.
Why else would they make it illegal to give to the poor?
The dog says..a demand not heard during the eight long years of total and complete BUSHITE which saw us launch war on two fronts . . .
Uh, how many countries has Obomber invaded in 5 years (on credit). Let's see...Egypt, Libya,Syria,Sudan,Somalia, Pakistan. Oh, but drones are cheaper than boots on the ground? I see. You are just being a fiscal hawk, not a peacenik, eh?
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McCain? Would it be better if I asked him on his red or blue day? Talk about someone who keeps forgetting how the issues have been divvied up!
Political circus. Almost as 'real' as WWF.
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He also backed Obomber over arming radical islamists in Syria. You know, those guys who are sworn enemies of the USA?
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This is how the spin begins.
http://rt.com/usa/occupy-carne-ross-syrian-768/
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CIA and money? lol. I don't see where they are assisting but it would not surprise me.
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Here is the board of directors http://www.independentdiplomat.org/about-us/board-of-directors
Scott Ogur (Treasurer)
CFO of Delaware Valley Financial Group; former CFO of Algorithmic Trading Management; former CFO and Chief Investment Officer of Scimitar, a private venture capital firm investing in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, Iraq, Romania, Switzerland, and the U.A.E.; former portfolio manager at J.P. Morgan Private Bank; former auditor and accountant at Price Waterhouse, Chemical Bank and J.P. Morgan.
http://dvfgbrokerage.com/
Ok, I'll be back later. I have to go out for a bit.
EDIT: Add on this http://reporting.sunlightfoundation.com/lobbying/fara/4806
Well, he looks for sure like a Colbert wannabe in that pic.
This: and if things went just the right way it could turn into a we're the good guys pr campaign some years down the road - on the side of the little guy against the bankers and the evil dictators at every turn . . .
I do agree with.
Let's have a look see at this guy and how it works: http://polisario-confidential.org/108-exclusive-the-polisario-front-has-hired-independent-diplomat-inc.html
Give me a minute here.
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http://paragkhanna.org/
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I'm reading through them now. Yay, Shooz.
I'm following link to link and before I get lost I want to put this here:
Do FMS Sales require Congressional Notification?
The U.S. Arms Export Control Act, Sec 36 requires Congressional notification for FMS or DCS sales expected to meet or exceed:
For North Atlantic Treaty Organization member countries, South Korea, Australia, Japan, Israel, and New Zealand: major defense equipment (MDE) of $25M or more; any defense articles or services of $100M or more; or design and construction services of $300M or more.
For all other countries: MDE of $14M or more; any defense articles and services of $50M or more; or design and construction services of $200M or more.
For North Atlantic Treaty Organization member countries and organizations, South Korea, Australia, Japan, Israel, and New Zealand there is a 15-day statutory notification period.
For all other countries there is a 30-day statutory notification period. Link
My question. Anything less than the $ amounts given does not need congressional approval? Am I reading this right?
and then there is this: http://www.dsca.mil/programs/fmf
Here's another OMG for you.
Mr. Khanna has ties to the New America foundation as well.
http://www.newamerica.net/
Shiny web site, eh?
Welp. a little further research, finds that site has ties to not only Google, but the Pete Peterson Foundation.
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/New_America_Foundation
File under.....Oh what a tangled web is woven.
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Good question and a web site that bears looking into.
http://hybridreality.me/
Mr. Khanna is also involved here.
http://www.newamerica.net/
Also on the board: Parag Khanna
Director of the Global Governance Initiative and senior research fellow in the American Strategy Program at the New America Foundation; author of How to Run the World: Charting a Course to the Next Renaissance and The Second World: Empires and Influence in the New Global Order; former senior geopolitical advisor to United States Special Operations Forces in Iraq and Afghanistan; former Global Governance Fellow at the Brookings Institution and former research associate at the Council on Foreign Relations.
Muckety New America Foundation: http://www.muckety.com/New-America-Foundation/5001347.muckety
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here is a translated page on him: http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polisario_confidentiel&prev=/search%3Fq%3DKhalid%2BIbrahim%2BKhaled%2527%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DnIc%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26channel%3Drcs
"So, in case anyone missed that you can get a clear picture of the type of douche bag that you're dealing with. He hasn't changed. He is exactly the same. He is going to target you and Shooz."
It's called a debate, you dumb fucking cunt. Me and Zen have diametrically opposed views about politics, and scroll your little ass thru this thread and see who called who names. Hint: not once did I call Zen anything close to "fuckin' snake."
And if you're referring to my convo with Shooz on the Cheerios thread, I was respectful the whole time despite me and him having our "differences."
You've been outed for what you are, and the forum sees it. You're done. Fuck off.
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No, you dumb fucking cunt. That's not a debate. That's you being a fucking condescending piece of shit and twisting shit. The only thing that has been outed on this forum is that you are still the dirtbag that you always were. So, you fuck off.
Make no mistake you passive aggressive fucktwit-I am 100% aggressive.
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So, I had a very nice reply and now it is gone. But, ya, I think so.
ID is technically no different from any of the other lobbyists. http://www.fara.gov/qs-primary.html
We knew that the US was to provide light arms etc. We know that some source said that they were taking all necessary precautions to keep them out of AQ hands. Because they had an entire article that even stated how they got the weapons there. Because the most covert thing to do is to put that out there......because nobody else in any other country would read it. So, it was a super secret. Just sayin'.
I don't think that this is a new game. I think it's the same game. It's just a question of who gets what when it's over.
But, whilst doing this, I had a few other questions. That I am hoping that this will answer. https://www.pmddtc.state.gov/regulations_laws/aeca.html But, I want to go through the site and the other carefully.
Start packing your bags and head to DC. I'm a bit surprised you haven't heard this yet.
http://news.firedoglake.com/2013/09/17/obama-bypasses-terrorism-rule-to-give-weapons-to-syrian-rebels/
Now, before you start slamming Firedoglake, Google "US arms syrian rebels" and you'll see write-ups about in from Washington Post, CNN, RT.com, the UK's Telegraph, Global Research, and others. They run the gamut from MSM to so-called "conspiracy sites" like GlobalResearch.
This isn't really news to me.
(quote) The US secretary of state vowed Washington’s support for the Iraqi government in its fight to regain control of towns in its western province taken over by militants belonging to the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS).
That’s rich. The government of Syria is battling to root out these same al-Qaeda-linked militants. But in that country, Washington offers no such support. In fact, the priority there for Washington is to sack the government of President Bashar Al-Assad.
So, how does Kerry square that contradiction? In Iraq, al-Qaeda is a threat that needs to be defeated, whereas in Syria the very same organization is apparently not a threat, but the Syrian government is.
What’s even richer is that Kerry was issuing his warnings about al-Qaeda in the region surrounded by senior members of the House of Saud, who are known to all the world as the bankers, recruiters and weapons suppliers of this network. (end quote)
Full story below.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article37323.htm#.UszupMsEH2Q.facebook
Hmmm, kinda like in 1945 a Nazi was a "enemy combatant" but in 1946 he was an "intelligence asset."
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"All Syrian rebels . . ." sounds like propaganda to me. From the couple articles I've read, it sounds like they're implying a significant percentage, possibly a majority, of the rebels may have "ties" to Al-Qaida, so it's hard to say how many. But considering our government helped form Al-Qaida in the first place, I wouldn't be surprised they they'd "partner up" with them if the need would ever arise.
That's how the geopolitical game is played; one day your enemy, the next an ally.
So then, I guess the question then becomes "does our government have anything to gain politically and / or militarily by doing so?
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And thank you for reaffirming the clarity of that lens thru which you view world affairs.
It's always a pleasure conversing with you, Zen. No shit. You can never tell which way you'll swerve. ;-)
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From the very birth of this nation, Liberal-Whigs and Loyalist-Tories DIFFERED over our very independence: Loyalists (or Royalists) wanted their authoritarian King and wanted nothing to do with "democracy," exactly like their decedents today in the RepubliCon Cult whose Charlie Manson is the 1%.
Whigs won the day and Independence and democracy, and are basically today's Democratic Party, and remain fundamentally and radically different from Cons. To say they are the same is an insulting, ignorant, and vicious smear on Democrats. Making it the ultimate campaign tactic of the RW, because the only way Cons get in office is by fraud, propaganda, Voter Suppression, and/or cheating. No one but a small number of Loyalists want an Authoritarian, Fascist Theocracy ~ but people can be duped with Guns, Bibles, Abortion, Gays, Immigrants, Taxes and Fox Lies.
Suffice it to say, name any good thing America has accomplished, and you'll see RepubliCons fighting against it, and Democrats fighting for it (We the People, Civil Rights, Public Services, Laws, Regulations, NASA, Weekends, on and on). Dems are the Liberal-Progressive-thinkers working for the 99%, with it's share of DINO, Blue Dog & Conservative bastards; Cons are the Conservative-Authoritarian (T-Bag & Libertarian), agents of Wealth, believers, working for the 1%, with a few RINOs & Moderates. Gigantic differences!
Our political system, in it's present state of exploitation and corruption, deliberately creates the false sense that all politicians are as bad as democracy & America hating RepubliCons. Due to the unforeseen, by our forefathers, problem of Voter apathy (lowest Voter turnout), and the subsequent weakness of our democracy, our politics and government have been purchased by the 1% (today's Kings). In order to get and stay in the game, to do whatever good they can still do, many Dems are forced to pander to the money. Thus allowing asshole Cons and disengaged Unicorn Chasers to declare both "parties" are the same, in utter speciousness and embarrassing ignorance!
As far as the Global War on Terror that Cheney/Bush started [as ordered], the [entrenched] Military Industrial & Congressional Complex had this plan on the shelf for decades. And no goddamn, peon people's choice, skinny, black POTUS was going to end their party in the middle of all this theft, graft, and redistribution of wealth to the top 1%.
Who do these "both-same" assholes think their fooling? People, WTFU!!
The Global War on Terrorism: The First 100 Days http://2001-2009.state.gov/s/ct/rls/wh/6947.htm
2010 Never EVER Again!
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It shows the premeditated attack on many countries that these New World Order bastards had in mind years before 9/11, using 9/11 as an excuse. Syria and Pakistan being just two of over a hundred.
WSmith, our usual payments we send to your account are not going through. The money for your DNC shilling, propaganda and lies are stacking up. It's probably due to the Polar Vortex. Please provide an alternative routing number. Thanks again for supporting the establishment and perpetuating the false political dichotomy. Your 1% money is waiting for you.
The astonishing reliable irony of Con-Zombies: 99% of everything they accuse others of, is exactly what they are doing. Check it and see, it's hilarious! The VERY worst thing they can smear their opposition with, is charging them with being like RepubliCons! Isn't that RICH?
It's also just another ONE of the INFINITE differences between Cons & Dems.
Cons don't live in a fact based world, they live in a world of belief & obedience.
~ AND ~
Facts and Truth have a liberal bias.
But if some rich Lib-Dem-Prog Org or Private Interest wants to pay me, what the fuck took you soooo long? & The payment(s) better be retroactive!
Hee,hee. Good one! I suspect he is leaving the monies he earns shillin here as a contribution to Ready for Hillary.
Yeah, last June to September! And it wasn't public at all until someone broke the story. If memory serves me right, it was originally being funneled thru some Mideast intermediary, maybe the Sauds. I don't recall who.
How the hell did you miss it?
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Actually, it's because Iran is an Assad ally and you know what they say about politics and bedfellows. I didn't say "foreign policy" because EVERYTHING is a political calculation in the Obumbler WH. Am sure you are aware of Secdef Gates new book?
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It's not about fuckin' repelicans, ya freak. It's about resource exploitation. From the Black Sea to the Chinese border. The New Great Game.
Jeez, man!
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Uh, I didn't take us on a tangent, that would've been globalchill, if anyone. Your mention of Al-Qaida is what got you and I on this path, my friend. You claimed you hadn't heard of this administration funding arms to AQ and I corrected your mistake, pointing out that it was widespread news last summer.
But while I'm here, I'll give a nod to the OP and comment about one of your statements:
"They have an exclusive corner on legislative efforts designed to further both and engage in extensive efforts to bribe, corrupt, or to cajole members of the opposing party to go along with the plan, and when they do, it provides fodder for their grand lie: both parties are the same."
Well, Zen, if said opposing party is bribed, corrupted or cajoled into "going along with the plan," does that not put them on the same page? The same path? With the same end goal?
Now, I'm not claiming both parties are the same, per se, but when they both work in concert for their corporate or MIC paymasters, what's the diff?
Claiming both parties are the same is a simplistic, dare I say reductionist, observation akin to saying all actors in a movie are playing the same role. But like actors in a movie, all politicians have their role to play. You guys crack me up with your contention that the Dems are really on the side of the people and only do bad things when the Repubs stick a metaphorical gun to their head.
And that's what libe(R)topians do.
Exploit.
All over the World.
Bet ya got some in your State.
You'll get no argument from me on either statement.
Lol libe(R)topians. Where did you get that term?
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"I liked you better when the place was busier," heheh.
I still like you just as much as I always have, Zen, I just like fucking with you sometimes. Don't take it so personal. I respect anyone with your level of intelligence even if we don't agree on things.
But one thing I'm not is a liar. I might be mistaken sometimes, I might talk a little trash on occasion, I might be totally off-base on some things, but a liar I try not be.
However, if you have proof of any lies, I'd sure like to see some . . .
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Don't even get me started about Keyser Söze. ;-)
As far as mischaracterizing the nature of the funds in that link, I've done nothing of the sort. That link was in a comment from one of our posters a few weeks back that came from an article entitled something like "88% of Congress accepted bribes from the fracking industry," or something to that effect. I couldn't find the actual article but did have that link I gave you bookmarked.
My point being that, regardless of what's happening at the local or state level, at the national level that's one example of the duopoly that you guys claim doesn't exist. That's the very definition of duopoly as understood outside the narrow definition found in dictionaries. Both parties working in concert to the detriment of the people, for the benefit of the elitists.
I'm looking at your links as we speak. I find that second one quite interesting.
It's that cognitive dissonance again.
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Poor sap.
And with such a gifted mind, too.
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Awww, Zen, where's the love, buddy? And I was having such a good time, too.
Snake is not an apt descriptor. But be sure to keep us up on all the latest political news from HuffPo and Reuters, you hear? And get ready because Hillary will be needing your support come 2016. Get that dialing finger primed, my friend.
It's been fun, ZD. See you next time.
So, in case anyone missed that you can get a clear picture of the type of douche bag that you're dealing with. He hasn't changed. He is exactly the same. He is going to target you and Shooz.
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One man's "bribe" is another man's "campaign contribution." Although I only skimmed your link, it looks to me like Siegelman didn't actually bribe anyone. The Repubs didn't like him and used their clout to get rid of him.
So, I can only assume from your comment that there is no bribery going on in politics, because if so, the culprit would be prosecuted. Are you serious?
Your problem, Zen, is you rely almost exclusively on mainstream media for ALL your political information. Every link you post to prove your points comes from MSM. Every one.
Get with the program, Zen. As it is you're just being an unwitting tool.
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Your "right here, plain as day" link is broke. All I get is "problem loading page."
No matter, let's scan thru the thread and see what's what. Hmmm, my first comment on here is this one:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/what-a-crock-of-shit/#comment-1017414
Which was a comment made because you claimed you hadn't heard our administration had been arming AQ rebels in Syria, here:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/what-a-crock-of-shit/#comment-1017412
At that time you were already into a convo with globalchill, started here:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/what-a-crock-of-shit/#comment-1017402
But it's no secret you have trouble following a plot, as seen here:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/just-the-usual-suspects/
Hey genius, Verbal Kint WAS Keyser Söze. Jeez!
Newsflash, hotshot - at no time did I attempt to decide anything about the direction of this post, all I did was join in it. Don't be twisting shit around just because you don't like what I had to say. Hell, I even tried to steer it back on course with my reply. And in case you hadn't noticed, most, if not all, threads that get over a couple dozen replies usually go off on a tangent or two.
And I don't recall seeing you at the Peabody Coal protest.
And lastly, I'm not confusing shit. Let's talk a second about the Democrats. You remember, the ones that are on our side?
http://www.citizensforethics.org/pages/database-fracking-industry-contributions-to-113th-congress
50 out of 53 Democratic Senators took bribes from the fracking industry. That's half the fucking Senators in the US. 146 Democratic Rep's took money vs. 55 Democratic Rep's that didn't. Which, in my book, would make Obama's (a Democrat) new energy policy decidedly bi-partisan. You know, that energy policy that has opened up vast swaths of the US to fracking plus the Arctic Ocean? You know, where Obama bragged in a speech that the US would become the "new Saudi Arabia" for oil production. So, while you guys bitch about what the Repubs are doing at the state level, the fucking Democrats including our President are fully in bed with Big Oil. You remember Big Oil, don't you? That would be the cabal that's quickly bringing about the extinction of the human race.
Global warming. It's right out in the parking lot!!
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Seriously? Dude, "MSM" stands for "mainstream media," it's not a website, so your comment about never posting any links from MSM is either a gross mistake on your part, or an outright lie. Three of your links on this thread alone are from mainstream media websites; USAToday, People Magazine's website and CBS news. And I refrain from adding The Guardian although a lot of people would consider them MSM, too. Those first three are the very definition of "mainstream media," for Christ's sake. So my first "lie" isn't a lie at all, although saying "Every link . . ." was probably a stretch.
I'll skip over your link to my comment to GF, because that's just gratuitous bullshit on your part, probably assuming no one will click on it, they'll just be tallying up your links. But it was a clever ploy to try and get me to respond to your comment just below that, since there wasn't a reply button under it. That was your intent, wasn't it? Well played, Z.
This so-called lie has no lies in it. Globalchill got you off on a tangent, which you yourself acknowledge here when you say "nice distraction."
I joined in the convo to point out that there was news of the US arming AQ in Syria in the news last summer. The rest of my comment, referencing your "bribe, corrupt and cajole" comment, was my opinion and debate about a duopoly. And that's the debate between us. You don't believe in it. I do.
So far you're batting zero. This is neither lie nor distraction. Do you think the globalists behind The New Great Game give a rat's ass about the political party of the American's involved in it? Are Repubs involved? Of course, but also Democrats and a host of other political persuasions from other countries. It not about just the US.
So, you didn't call me on shit here. In fact, you start off agreeing with me when you say "sure that's a significant part of the story." Then you add to it, you don't refute it. The rest of your comment is back to the duopoly debate.
The rest of your comment above is just you foaming at the mouth. Essentially character assassination, including some sort of cheap shot at my username. Plus a smattering of innuendo.
Calling something a lie isn't the same as it actually BEING a lie. Which is why I'm done with this convo, because ZD, you seriously swerved.
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"Swerve". I like that gno....the dog DOES occasionally make sense, but I never thought of it as erratic driving until now! LOL
Yeah, it's usually a good time, regardless of how it goes. Sometimes it veers towards a total train-wreck but it's fun nonetheless.
Funny, I never mentioned AQ....are you saying they are the only radical islamists?
Whatever, if the Reps would get over the fact the Obumbler misadmin lied about Benghazi, they might get to the more important aspects of that tragedy. Stevens brokering arms smuggling via Turkey to anti Assad rebels that are largely composed of FOREIGN(radical Islamic) FIGHTERS.
And just what was the CIA doing at that there Annex with over 20 personnel and what did Petraeus' biographer mean when she said there were 3 Libyans released that night from the annex?
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"Funny, I never mentioned AQ....are you saying they are the only radical islamists?"
Absolutely not, it was Zen that specified AQ, then I kind of got off on a tangent with him about it. Guess I swerved a bit myself that time, heheh.
As far as Benghazi, I haven't read anything about it yet, so I'm not qualified to give an opinion yet. But it does sound like there are a lot of unanswered questions about that whole situation.
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I don't know WTF you're complaining about.
John Boehner gives the democrats and Obama just about everything they want. If you can't see that, you're blind in one eye and can't see out of the other.
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Get back on yer thorazine drip, crackhead.
Hey it's our multiple ID cockroach. How you doin'?
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Remarkable, isn't it? With all the whining and lies they kick out----they sure are a visible train wreck.
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Probably.
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Here, let's get 'em started. http://www.privateislandsonline.com/
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Awe, Zen the multiple ID jack offs are trying to down vote you.
They will have space-it's their version of competition.
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How do you make such an obviously and factually erroneous, dishonest, and asinine statement as this and expect even the most depraved 1%-Con Zombies and Trolls to take you seriously?
Just say ANYTHING, RWers!!