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Forum Post: we should get rid of Obamacare IMMEDIATELY

Posted 1 year ago on Feb. 13, 2013, 8:09 p.m. EST by bensdad (8977)
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41 Comments

41 Comments


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[-] 3 points by imagine40 (383) 1 year ago

Or insist that the republican party utilize their own health care strategy now that the party is "sick"

"die quickly!!" (thx A Grayson)

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[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

I have to agree. I see you don't like Obama care. I figure Obama care is a give-away to the Heath Care companies and Big Pharma. It is worse that people are losing jobs. The fact the i will go bankrupt in the event of cancer, heart attack or stroke is problematic. Bankers are winners in Washington. Consumers are Losers in the end.

[-] -3 points by derain (-178) 1 year ago

the purpose of obamacare is to put insurance companies out of business, and to have govt control over people.

[-] 0 points by freakzilla (-161) from Detroit, MI 1 year ago

Put them out of business how? By forcing everyone to buy their product?

Funny thing about the mandate. The idea was first introduced in the late 80's early '90's. Back then Repubs liked it, Dems not so much. The insurance companies win regardless.

[-] 1 points by JPB950 (2254) 1 year ago

The theory runs that with penalties lower then premiums, healthy people will pay the tax and wait to buy insurance when the need arrises. Businesses will do something similar. This leaves insurance companies with too many customers that require payouts and not the supply of nonusers paying premiums that they need.

I don't claim the theory is valid, but it is what I'm going to do. It makes no sense for me to buy insurance for myself.

The highest penalty in 2016, will be for me, about the same as the lowest premium I can find right now. That low premium gives me the privilege(?) of paying a $10000 deductible before any benefits kick in. I'm much better off paying for any sick visit or checkup out of pocket and buying a good policy if I develop some serious problem.

[-] -1 points by derain (-178) 1 year ago

private health insurance has gone up , a lot, due to obamacare. the people lose.

[-] 1 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 1 year ago

Obama wanted to address pre-existing conditions in regards to those that could afford HC. The rest of Obamacare is a non-event. He could have addressed the issue of pre-existing conditions directly but he seemed to be caught up in writing his own legacy on the whole issue of health care. It was disingenuous on his part to suggest that HC should be hotly debated when he already knew exactly what he wanted to do. Luckily Kucinch insisted on states having the right to go single payer if they choose.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

we should ditch insurance companies and work for a public option. Settling for an insurance mandate written by health insurance lobbyists is not what anyone voted for. Millions are still without insurance and millions will have to pay a fine for choosing not to buy health care they couldn't afford in the first place. Currently there's no limits on premiums and no limits on raising costs on the sick.

If an insurance mandate is a solution, then mandate the homeless to buy a house.

Insurance companies are the leaches in healthcare. This is 2013. We need a public option. Anything else is not a solution to the problem in health care. Insurance companies suck up money that should be going toward the healthcare. Insurance companies are leaches.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/i-need-mental-help/

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

Here is the foundation of our major disagreement .
I completely agree that we need Medicare for all
I completely disagree with Obama NOT fighting for that.


But my disagreement is based on POLITICAL REALITY.
So many posts here have four dimensions ( stated or not )
1. In a perfect world we would have perfect solutions by perfect politicians in a perfect system - and we can keep demanding perfection
2. Obama & other pols are negligent for not accomplishing the perfect solution
3. Obama is not a KING, Anything he wants to do has to be approved by the 1% obstructionists in the house
SO
4. Does OWS push for an ideal goal that is impossible - or push for the achieveable goal


Two examples:
Obama promised to close Gitmo & did not. Was he stupid that he believed that the Rs who said that wanted to close it too would block the money required to close it?
We all want banksters to go to jail. With many posts here on this subject, no one here has stated a SPECIFIC criminal statute that was broken. I suspect there is none and that is why.

We should be working to change the way our democracy relates to corporations. I know there is somehing called the "corporate veil" and I believe this is a valid example:
If you hire Joe to build a room in your home & it collapses, killing your wife, Joe is criminally liable for negligence.
If you hire Joe, Inc to build a room in your home & it collapses, killing your wife, Joe is protected by the "corporate veil" from criminal negligence


AGAIN:
OWS must work for achieveable goals & electable candidates


STEP 1 - for almost everything
end corporate personhood & citizens united

[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

your political reality is called a mass illusion.

in your political reality we have to vote for warmongers funded by Goldman Sachs.

I don't like your political reality. In fact I'm sick of it.

What excuses do you have for killing and detaining Americans without charge and trial? Suppose we have to make excuses for that because we have to? After all we're in a political reality.

if you want to get money out of politics, stop voting for the frauds accepting the damn corrupt money. The people accepting the money won't stop their gravy train. They will not actually do anything except maybe lip service in regards to this issue.

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

I'm so sorry you are sick - get the doctors to loosen the straight jacket.


The ONLY way to get money out is an amendment:
Constitutional Amendment XXVIII Introduced in Congress
Ensuring Rights for People, Not Corporations
by Rep. Rick Nolan (D-MN) & Rep. Mark Pocan (D-WI) Feb 11, 2013


Section 1. [Artificial Entities Such as Corporations Do Not Have Constitutional Rights] The rights protected by the Constitution of the United States are the rights of natural persons only. Artificial entities established by the laws of any State, the United States, or any foreign state shall have no rights under this Constitution and are subject to regulation by the People, through Federal, State, or local law. The privileges of artificial entities shall be determined by the People, through Federal, State, or local law, and shall not be construed to be inherent or inalienable.

Section 2. [Money is Not Free Speech] Federal, State, and local government shall regulate, limit, or prohibit contributions and expenditures, including a candidate's own contributions and expenditures, to ensure that all citizens, regardless of their economic status, have access to the political process, and that no person gains, as a result of their money, substantially more access or ability to influence in any way the election of any candidate for public office or any ballot measure. Federal, State, and local government shall require that any permissible contributions and expenditures be publicly disclosed. The judiciary shall not construe the spending of money to influence elections to be speech under the First Amendment.


Constitutional Amendment Introduced in Congress Ensuring Rights for People, Not Corporations by Rep. Rick Nolan (D-MN) & Rep. Mark Pocan (D-WI)
Respond to Hundreds of Local Resolutions Calling for “We the People” Amendment - The movement for constitutional reforms that would end what organizers call “corporate rule” has arrived in the chambers of Congress. This morning, two members of the U.S. House of Representatives joined Move to Amend by announcing their sponsorship of the “We the People” Amendment, which clearly and unequivocally states that: Rights recognized under the Constitution belong to human beings only, and not to government-created artificial legal entities such as corporations and limited liability companies; and
Political campaign spending is not a form of speech protected under the First Amendment.

In making the announcement, lead sponsor Rep. Rick Nolan, said: “It’s time to take the shaping and molding of public policy out of corporate boardrooms, away from the corporate lobbyists, and put it back in city halls – back with county boards and state legislatures – and back in the Congress where it belongs.”

Ben Manski, a spokesperson for Move to Amend, agreed, saying: “Today, members of Congress join a movement that insists on the fundamental equality of all Americans, and that rejects the idea that the corporate class should have special protections against We the People.” The Move to Amend coalition was formed in 2009 in preparation for the Supreme Court’s 2010 Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission decision. Today, the coalition of nearly 260,000 people and hundreds of organizations has helped to pass nearly 500 resolutions in municipalities and local governments across the country calling on the state and federal governments to adopt this amendment. The Move to Amend coalition makes a point of differentiating themselves from the other proposals that have come forward in response to Citizens United. "In every single community where Americans have had the opportunity to call for a Constitutional amendment to outlaw corporate personhood, they have seized it and voted yes overwhelmingly, stated George Friday, Move to Amend spokesperson. “The Citizens United decision is not the cause, it is a symptom. We must remove big money and special interests from the legal and political process entirely."


OWS Amendment site: http://corporationsarenotpeople.webuda.com


Write & email your congresspeople

house:
http://www.house.gov/representatives/find/
senate:
http://www.senate.gov/reference/common/faq/How_to_contact_senators.htm

[-] -1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

You can be for removing money from politics, and not be a slobbering disgrace of a Dem loyalist.

[-] -1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

I stopped reading at the word straight jacket.

Thanks for the support, asshole.

[-] 0 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Thank you. The amount of pro Dem nonsense this guy comes up with, and then says he has NEVER been to a Dem party meeting....well what the hell is he doing then?

That website of his is such a hack job its not even worth promoting, and how in the middle of occupy in NYC he couldnt find a techie to do it, after going to 100's of GAs (allegedly) is beyond me...

If someone thinks that Dems are the answer, I would expect they get their asses down there and start working on it. Otherwise, its just more of the same.

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

FYI - I have been to 100's of OWS meetings - some GAs some not
but why attack me?
are you against stopping citizens united? corporate personhood? SPECIFICALLY- what video of the 70+ on our site did you object to? Sanders?
Hightower?
Chomsky?
Lessig? Warren? Kucinich?

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

I don't know how anyone can still cling to these parties.

The corruption is horrendous. The arrogance is so thick it is suffocating. Killing Americans without charge or trial. Giving trillions to Wall Street and War profiteers while our country falls apart. And people still proudly align themselves to these imperialists.

the republican and democratic parties are beyond saving. They are blind with allegiance.

[-] -1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

He's a king when it comes to bombing Africa though, isnt he?

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/02/25/executive-order-libya

[-] 0 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

"Not only did the 2010 health law reject single payer or a public option, its rules and structures prevent a state like Vermont from going single payer, at least at the outset."

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0912/81267.html#ixzz2KyLrcyNU

[-] 1 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 1 year ago

Repubs message to medicare recipients.

"we got ours! If you want it too then you are dependent taker!"

http://front.moveon.org/jon-stewart-paraphrases-marco-rubio-medicare-helps-my-mom-but-f-_-_-k-you/?rc=daily.share

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

That is just offensive

[-] -1 points by inutileows (-18) 1 year ago

thats nothing compared to what you libs did to Bush LMAO, Get Fuckin over it

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

2 wrongs don't make a right?

[-] -1 points by Shayneh (-482) 1 year ago

Hey, Obama wanted it, he got it, the voters voted for it - they got it - deal with and stop whining -

Just put your dollars in the HC trust fund as required by OBC. .

[-] -1 points by freakzilla (-161) from Detroit, MI 1 year ago

Didn't you say you were all about pushing the Dems to be more progressive now? with the election over and done.

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

I'm ALWAYS pushing Ds to be more progressive
This is about getting 99% supporters in & 1% supporters out

[-] -2 points by freakzilla (-161) from Detroit, MI 1 year ago

Don't worry about them. You've spent enough time (and cartoons) bashing Repubs. Let's see you get moving with the pushing, if you have it in you. Money, meet mouth.

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

vat! you vanna zee my pushing?
Here is what I did - what have you none?. http://corporationsarenotpeople.webuda.com
Which of the 40+ documents did you thgink was most helpful?
Which of the 70+ videos was most interesting?

[-] -2 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Let us know when you have posted a few cartoons bashing Dems.

[-] 3 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

You think I am bashing Rs ???? I thought they did that themselves voting agaist Lilly Leadbetter voting to reduce voting voting to stop abortion rights voting with alec & koch

[-] -1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

I think you should be bashing them all. This is OWS, not DailyKos.

Your slobbering over the Dems because of a "reality" will only lead to more deaths, less rights, more deaths, more bailouts and more deaths.

[-] -2 points by highlander (-163) 1 year ago

Almost worthy of a North Korean billboard

[-] -1 points by Shayneh (-482) 1 year ago

Yep, goes hand in hand with Obamacare - can't deny that -

[-] 1 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 1 year ago

Gotta cut pharma control & costs. I support that effort, do you?

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[+] -4 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Obama should go to Africa and the Middle East with this doctor bag and help all the people that have been injured as a lack of his leadership.

And forcing the middle class to purchase things from teh corrupted lobbies will go down as the first in a line of many forced purchases to come.