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Forum Post: THE EMPEROR & HIS CLOTHES: When individuals speak the plain truth OUT LOUD, they can bring down citadels of falsity.

Posted 1 year ago on Dec. 22, 2012, 6:54 a.m. EST by therising (6643)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

The magnificent quote below is from an essay written by John O'Donohue. It specifies how we as individuals can absolutely help change the "tenor of the times" and thereby help create real change on the ground for real people. How wonderful to discover that we are not powerless at all. We have the power to turn this world around.

John O'Donohue explained it this way:

"Sometimes when we look out, the world seems so dark. War, violence, hunger and misery seem to abound. This makes us anxious and helpless. What can I do in my private little corner of life that could have any effect on the march of world events? The usual answer is: nothing. We then decide to do what we can for our own, and leave the great events to their domain. Thus, we opt out, and join the largest majority in the world : those who acquiesce. Believing ourselves to be helpless, we hand over all our power to forces and systems outside us that then act in our names; they go on to put their beliefs into action; and ironically these actions are often sinister and destructive.

We live in times when the call of full and critically aware citizenship could not be more urgent. We need to rediscover the careless courage, yet devastating simplicity, of the little boy who, in the middle of the numbered multitude, in naive Socratic fashion, blurts out; " But the emperor has no clothes." When spoken, the word of truth can bring down citadels of falsity.

Real presence is the ideal of all true individuation. When we yield to helplessness, we strengthen the hand of those who would destroy. When we choose indifference, we betray our world. Yet the world is not decided by action alone. It is decided more by consciousness and spirit; they are the secret sources of all action and behavior. The spirit of a time is an incredibly subtle, yet hugely powerful force. And it is comprised of the mentality and spirit of all individuals together. Therefore, the way you look at things is not simply a private matter. Your outlook actually and concretely affects what goes on. When you give in to helplessness, you collude with despair and add to it.

When you take back your power and choose to see the possibilities for healing and transformation, your creativity awakens and flows to become an active force of renewal and encouragement in the world. In this way, even in your own hidden life, you can become a powerful agent of transformation in a broken, darkened world. There is a huge force field that opens when intention focuses and directs itself toward transformation."

The last line kind of pairs nicely with this quote you've probably seen from Goethe:

"Until one is committed, there is a hesitancy, the chance to draw back, always ineffectiveness.  Concerning all acts of initiative and creation, there is one elementary truth - the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans; that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then Providence moves too.  All sorts of things occur to help one that would never otherwise have occurred.  A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manor of unforseen incidents and meetings and material assistance which no man could have dreamed would come his way.  Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it.  Boldness has genius, power and magic in it.  Begin it now."

Let's go to it. Let's "rediscover the careless courage, yet devastating simplicity, of the little boy who, in the middle of the numbered multitude, in naive Socratic fashion, blurts out; 'But the emperor has no clothes.' When spoken, the word of truth can bring down citadels of falsity." Let's each be that boy. Let's each speak the plain truth out loud.

We can't sit on the sidelines. Remember, Martin L. King, Jr. didn't let us off the hook at all. He once said this:

"History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people.”

It's time for us to speak up.

154 Comments

154 Comments


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[-] 4 points by Nevada1 (4464) 1 year ago

Hello therising,

This is good. Am motivated to deal with some important issues.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

And if we include the 1% in our efforts / plans rather than setting them up as the enemy, we can get the support of 100% rather than just 99%. Why stop at 99? The truth is that the effort of supporters of OWS is intended to transform our whole system and way of doing things (and our mindset most importantly) so everyone, including the 1% stand to benefit.

[-] 1 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

Perhaps you can see how the prevalence of silence opposing natural law indicates that what is proposed as natural law is indeed.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/gunself-control/#comment-896691

Natural is the guide for constitutional intent. When we as citizens have mastered defining constitutional intent, we are also the masters of the congress and the courts through Article V.

The most important issues we know can be dealt with through or right to lawful and peaceful revolution as we alter and abolish abusive government.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

We, the 99% have the strength and momentum to do this. The wind is with us.

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

This is off an old album that I like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhNl6wIkVs8&list=FLoJF3f-Vf-wlfaXewhRLZxA&index=52 I really like the Album, Seventh Sojourn.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

This revolution has begun but there's a way each of us can help increase the momentum and support exponentially. It's time for us to speak up in casual conversations in our daily lives and in more formal settings as individuals and in groups. It's time to say the emperor has no clothes. There is real power in this. It takes away the stigma of speaking up, makes it easier for others to speak their own minds. People already know the emperor has no clothes. Our revolution will slide into high gear when we, the millions, help them feel comfortable saying it out loud. This is our task. To embolden them. Once we do, we will have entered a virtuous cycle and there will be no stopping us.

Every chance we get, in a strategic, calm and considerate way, we need to make it plain, in the most casual of conversation when the topic comes up. Having more and more and more people doing this IS the revolution because once we hit that virtuous cycle, we will discover that we have more in common than we have separating us. Once we discover that, we Americans will be able to make decisions from a position of unified strength instead of demands from a position of divided weakness.

The meme rises and spreads like a brushfire. . . http://occupywallst.org/forum/memes-the-building-blocks-of-another-world-thats-p/

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Memes probably interplay with higher truth or better truth. I'm just reflecting that some memes could be Rhetoric from what little I know about memes and the dielectic method. We all want the highest and best truth or best good.

Perhaps I am pointing out it might be easier if we all had a basis or a single platform from which we rise or root to. The obvious one is the constitution which with amendments now seems to privide civil rights, individual rights, balances of power, checks on power... Unfortunely there isn't clear basis on worker rights, limits on corporate power, limits on lobbying, gift giving, or campaign contributions, ... and congress has forgetten everything it knows about conflct of interest and anti-trust law.

I might posit that the constitution does provide both intension and limits on conflict of interest. These could be the basis for a fight against the influence in Washington DC.

I might also speculate that another Ammendment to the Constitution is needed to allow workers to organize, to limit corporate Lobbying, to limit the size of US corporations, to break up TBTF banks or any other corporate or organizational entity which puts small US Businesses at risk, corrupts the system with too much power and influence, corrpts congress, corrupts the fedeal budget, federal treasury, banking operations, and creates relationships with any official central bank. As well as an Amendement which addresses relationships and influences on congress that tends to distort information, media, and official statements in that the Public depends on Information Access, Truth, good representation in accordance with the spirit of the FOI Act, Freedom of Information Act.

That said ... I agree with what you are saying. The circle goes around and we see as corruption reaches a zenith the people become aware and begin to reflect on the Constitution and Citizenship and RIghts.

I really appreciate what you said above. I think you have a powerful grasp of what this is all about. I don't want to define or narrow what this is all about in my words here. You grasp the grassroots, political activism, principals, innate equality ... and you have a vision of completeness or integration or a new kind of Magna Carta that joins or ..."Is Part of Federal Government & State Government".

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

HOW WE CAN KICK THIS REVOLUTION INTO HIGH GEAR AS INDIVIDUALS AND IN GROUPS (links to all aspects of this): http://www.occupywallst.org/forum/are-you-as-pissed-off-as-i-am-tired-of-the-stagnat/

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago
[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Couldn't load for some reason. Can you reply back with link again?

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Lost in a Lost World (the Moody Blues) _ No more war!!!

The link is still working, you might want to turn the volume down before clicking again. The pictures add a lot to the song and Lyrics are shown below.

You might have to close windows and restart computer. I had a problem yesterday playing some Robert Reich Videos.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

GREAT song. Man, that is right on.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Awesome. I'll check it out tonight. Thanks very much :)

[-] 3 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

This is all true. I guess I do need to feed my spirit more. Read something that builds my relationship with spirit and self. Take back my power and fight dispair and helplessness.

I can't do it all alone. But I am trying to do it all alone, and it has left me feeling in dispair and feeling powerless.

So that is a couple of things I need to be learning. Since I like writing maybe this is a good place to be reminded.

[-] 2 points by Gillian (1842) 1 year ago

Middleaged, I'm middleaged too and I completely understand exactly how you feel about feeling as if you're doing it all alone, feeling such despair and helplessness. Sometimes misery loves company but sometimes misery seeks to heal itself. That's how I feel. I want to recharge and I need encouragement and support too. It helps to connect with others who understand. I find a lot of encouragement from Rising and others on here. They tolerate my moods and my cynicism but they also give me comfort in knowing that I'm not alone. So, feel free to write anytime.

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Thanks. Yes, I do sort of recharge my batteries with alone time. And not I am going a little bit deeper into my thoughts and reflections. Not sure if you did some self work before. I'm looking back a long way where I tried to do self work... I didn't really change at all. However I did gether some material way back then. Now I see more about getting older while still kind of being the same person with the same personality and the same issues. I guess I'm mixing together OWS type education with other things. I have money. I have food. I have shelter. Purpose is harder. Family is probably something that make life worthwhile and gives a lot of comfort as you get older. Some people have a family of choice that they find to replace their original family. Could be I've always been a little judgemental of Americans. I find education and understanding are right way for people to be. Which doesn't leave any room for anger and messy emotions. I suppose I am thinking how to create a life without pushy, angry, people that make assumptions about me.

But isn't that like how most people want to be treated. I don't feel dispair in the sense of being down. But the system we have forces you to work, asks you to spend money, charges you for education, and asks you to be happy with the compensation. I kind of found a way out of this cycle. But it means living in a simpler system, with less population, and at a lower cost of living. And of course I don't have the social piece at all. Picking up and moving takes momentum and then the long process of building relationship.

Deciding to live on a beach, near the mountains, near indigenous people, on some land with fruit trees, with chickens, or near neibors with the smell of manue in the air...near a univesrity, near language schools, etc. Lots of choices to make. Best approach to rent in a couple of places for a while.

But you still have taxes in the USA.

Anyway thanks for the support. There is a lot of social needs that we all have.

[-] 3 points by Gillian (1842) 1 year ago

I was thinking more about your comment in depth. It is true that often our lives seem to be nothing more than the mundane activities that we need to do to be citizens. I was actually thinking about this the other day. I was examining my life at the most basic earthly level- realizing that when I die I will have spent most of it working just to pay bills and taxes.
Humans are supposed to lead more meaningful lives and that means being social and having meaningful relationships. The work aspect of being here would even be more pleasant and meaningful if we worked with others who valued relationships and came home to family who also valued time together. We were not meant to be machines and robots that just do the same thing 365 days a year.
As technology has consumed us, it seems that we have allowed it to replace human relationships and keep those we do have at at most superficial level since there is hardly any time left in a day to truly relate. This is definitely not healthy for the human spirit. We have become slaves to technology, slaves to our bosses, slaves to corporations, slaves to the economy and have lost any sense of what really matters. It seems that we are not in control and that the system has prioritized everything in our life to benefit it, not us. Would you be willing to simplify your life to lead a more fulfilling one? I would. I really am not hinged to anything except my animals. I'd be happy if I never had a need to visit a computer ever again.

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Thanks. Almost missed this response as I reset my computer. I agree and think as we go deeper into this or even if we try to simplify our lives ... we find we can't shut off a kind of expection of things getting done. At least in my own life, if I visit an other country I find it is hard to relax and let go. It takes time. But worse I'm a little impatient about customer service. In third world countries you run into waiting periods for menus, to order drinks, or order food, to get the attension of the waiter. I heard that government offices and banks are a lot of waiting. People even wait in line to pay utility bills. Even in France you can struggle just to get utilities or phone turned on or for someone to visit your house to do what it takes to turn it on.

So, there are cultural things that separate us from other countries. And actually I think businesses or start ups in the US probably know people are willing to accept poor service and extra service charges if they keep teaching us. Book 'Fine Print' just came out and goes into the extra charges, and line item charges that make US Businesses even more profitable ...even as cost of business come down.

I see you are talking about the Human Potential and spirit. I agree with you. Perhaps I alway saw that dogma was not matched by the way people treat each other. The corporate system and government employment system are based on the Military system which was used in Factories in the Industrial Revolution. This is called Theory X management style. Theory Y is an opposing style that is about making work more fulfilling to workers through tools like Job Enlargement, providing more training opportunities, providing career advancement, providing opporunities for more responsiblity or more authority, things like that.

Competition in the work place creates cliques, factions, or networks. It is only natural in this light that people would work against allowing certain others from advancing or gaining experience that would allow them to be promoted above friends in the network or oneself. This is partly why I don't really like comtetion. The other reasons are people set themselves up as experts and withhold information, set themselves up as having status which can never be equaled, set themselves up as having ownership over the one truth....

Was going to add in my case Nutrition, sleep, and health seem to have played a negative role in my life. My spirit has suffered since my mind and body haven't really be operating at 100%.

We should compare notes on living abroad. There are many expat comunities, I guess. Europeans are pretty nice and they are every where. I also see where US Citizens have moved abroad to escape and probably would be good support for us. Mostly I haven't focused on expatriate support.... Teaching English could be your ticket if you can find a secure base. I have thought about if I could buy a property big enough to board others. Looks possible in Panama City, Ecuador, ... but rent is pretty cheap in most of the places and a better way to go. Maybe the trick would be to teach in Nicaragau or Ecuador, rent for like $200 a month for multiple bedrooms, and be able to teach English. There are many cheap rental countries, but need the leg work to find the better deal. Cheap rent means low wages for teaching sometimes.

Are you interested in Asia or Latin America or some where else? Beaches or Mountains? Hot or moderate temperatures?

[-] 2 points by Gillian (1842) 1 year ago

I actually prefer cooler climates but I'm a wool sweater and wood-burning gal. I want to go to Nova Scotia but there isn't much to do there in the way of employment unless I can drastically improve my fiddle playing or buy a yacht and sell tours. Can you afford a yacht? Do you sail? Another option is to join Pema Chodron at her Buddhist colony. hahaha The people of NS are so real, so friendly and there is no waiting in line for anything..not even the DMV. People beep their horns in a cheerful manner when they pass your home. The landscape is raw and beautiful and you see the stars at night and hear the birds chirping during the day. People don't lock their doors and there's always someone serving tea or beer and playing a jig. The other advantage for me to move to NS or Canada is that I can get my dogs in without any quarantine. Plus I would be close enough to Boston ( one of my favorite towns) for culture so if I wanted to spend a weekend there it wouldn't cost me an arm and a leg.

I have several friends who 'defected' to Panama and they love it. It's truly the cheapest place I know to live. Imagine an electric bill that is 3 dollars! hahahah One of my friends opened a huge natural health resort and the others have become evangelical preachers or something similar.

I've never had the issues that you describe in the UK...the waiting issues. I could go to surgeries, the same day. The Post was a typical wait like I have here. Not much noticeable difference really. I suppose it depends on where you live. I seek more solitude in the country and if I want to be social, then I can visit the city. But, I don't require entertainment and lots of folks in my life. I don't even have a single Facebook friend ( don't have an account) hahahaha Point being that when I'm home, I want to be able to escape. I want to visit culture- not the other way around ;D At the moment I'm living in a neighborhood that has become inundated with human detritus and pond scum. I try not to dwell on that aspect of my life. What we wake up to each day and actually see out of bedroom window or on our way to work plays a large part in our entire well-being. I want a nice view, I want a roll away roof in my bathroom so that I can sit in the tub under the stars and snowflakes. I think Benjamin Franklin did that actually. He called it moon-bathing and said that it was good for his health however, it was not so good for his neighbors' health ;D

I have a friend who moved to Switzerland a couple of years ago and she loves it minus the snow.

Australia is too warm for me. I couldn't bear Christmas with turkey salad sandwiches. I'm too much of a traditional Scot.

Another friend of mine moved to Vegas. Why in the hell would she do that? She asked me to come out there to visit and I told her that unless we were planning a trip to the G.Canyon as Thelma and Louise, I wasn't interested.

Here's an interesting place where one of my activist friends moved: Point Roberts, Washington. He left VA and loves it there. But again, it's small town. Imagine waking up to an Orca dancing in your backyard ;D Canada is just over the bridge too. He told me that it has it's own microclimate, very temperate most of the year.

Why doesn't the US keep records of expats? As far as I can tell, the US doesn't make that information public. However, we do keep records of immigrants. Gee, I wonder why? hahahah

I'm not a competitor. It's not only a mindset that opposes my personal spirituality but I must lack the testosterone ( oh gosh, I might have LOW-T disorder!) that fuels a person's need to compete. I'm just not ego-active in that respect.

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Know a guy in Hawaii, that bought a sail boat to live aboard as he worked his job. Probably if you like travel on the ocean, the only way to afford the gas is to sail. Funny thing about sail boats is the lack of deck space. It is kind of a work space, so if you laid out for sun you would be on a kind of hump under the sail. Guess I'm not laying out in the sun much though. Haven't done much sailing. My dad was interested and went a few times, once on the ocean in a 28'.

Probably the US does track us pretty good. You can sign up for Embassy on the STEP program so you get alert messages about the country you are in. Gives them another way to track you.

Yes, I'm not a competitor, but have found myself acting competitively in an office. Could be I don't like people talking smack. I mean the way a jock will talk crap to you to intimidate you. I think I hear something of the Scottish determination or spirit in you though. I only know Scottish culture from David Nivin as James Bond...a few other movies too. I was once on a ferry and a girl did a saber dance and saw a lone Bagpiper in Amsterdam testing his mettle in front of scruffy observers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casino_Royale_(1967_film)

Wow, you have some great contacts and experience with international travel. Swiming in the snow is nice at night too in a heated pool. Everyone loves hot tubs, almost. ;o) Heard some will buy a house in town and buy a house way out isolated near the beach. I think that could make sense as it can be lonely and you want to go back to town. Guess whale watching is big in Ecuador too was down there a while back in the dry season. Was surprised to find the green trees pretty bare and the ground kind of dry brown...beach sort of grey sand. I stayed in fishing villege where everything was pretty cheap. Ecuador Tourists would come on the weekend. They sort of end up with trash all in the street. Then Monday/Tuesday a couple of guys clean the streets all day long. They also burn the trash in vacant lots all week. So you get a bit of the burnt plastic smell.

I agree with you about Las Vegas. Maybe I'm a little cheap. It is just a desert with some nice hotels to go a round and look at. Oh and a few good shows. But it was another trip where I went alone. Travel alone is always odd. Eating is fun, but you eat where ever you are. I grew up near semi-desert, big snow, big freeze, only part of the year to walk around, but possible cross country skiing. Not really sure I'll make the switch to skiing as I'm getting older and out of shape.

I have a cousin that moved to Switzerland. They love it and have almost raised a couple of kids over there. Saw some apartments or condos in France near skiing and near the big lake on the border with Switzerland. Seem affordable even if small.

Australia is a step lower than Asia in my mind. Very expensive air ticket to get to OZ. Somone says it is possible to get work visa to stay their longer. But not sure how that works. I guess they need people in tourism if that is the life someone wants. Hard for me to show experience in Hotels. I'm more into the Relaxing like you I guess. Anyway there are visa issues in Asia that cause you to leave the country or just go to the border and come back in.

I'm like you would be great to wake up with a beautiful view. I think it would be better to feel settled in to a home instead of leave for 6 months & come back or make the border run for a stamp in passport.

Didn't you find the UK expensive. I guess London is the worst. Met some older couple in germany that said they had had it. They were moving to Ireland where the prices seemed good. Well that ws before the Crash, and Ireland took on Banker Debt, and the EU is all looking at economic woes. Anyway they do say that Nova Scotia is beautiful. I'm sort of staying of our Canda at this point. I sort of have an issue. Did read something about new Foundland in a Novel that was pretty interesting. Perfect Storm. makes you think of boating.

Well you sound like a sailor. Talking about doing tours. Fishing Charters has to be kind of tough, but I don't have the ocean or sailing experience for either. Went Deep sea fishing once in Costa Rica, Once in Key largo, and once on a boat in Thailand. seems like it would be satisfying to catch just one fish and eat it for lunch and dinner. Fishing could be done from a small boat that can speed out a short distance. I was looking at Belize because of the beautiful water and many cays, and all the snorkle/diving that can be done. I'm just not sure how safe it is. I've have heard of more than a few bad killings that sound like gang initiations in Belize and in Panama. Partly if you stay out of the bad part of panama city I guess that cuts the risk. That and Colon. Belize City is another, but people stay there.

yeah, there are probably places that are too warm. I understand many places on the coasts have a steady wind to keep things nice and keep the insects away. Maybe inland you end up too hot and have to look to the hills.

What is it like living with a fire place for heat any idea. I saw a bunch of houses in Uruguay that seem to only have fire places (and it gets cold). Seems like the house gets smokey smell. Then there are water and sewage system. Some houses have to be filled by water truck when they come around with shower water and drinking water. Things work pretty well in the US, but we pay more for the automatic services.

[-] 2 points by Gillian (1842) 1 year ago

I'm not a sailor. I did take sailing in college but all I did was drink beer and let the ego-maniac preps do all the work...hahahha I love sailing though. I lived on a sailboat for a very brief time in Cardiff Wales while I was visiting. It's an interesting way to live and it's not that expensive but it does require knowledge which I don't have. Still, there's always time to learn, eh? Maybe the UK will provide a sailboat nanny to help out?

I use wood solely for heat. I do have other options but I refuse to use them. I bought a wood stove a couple of years ago with a fan on it and I installed a ceiling fan and I can heat my tiny house to a good 70 degrees very easily in about an hour. I love it. Of course, it requires more effort than just setting a thermostat but I don't mind. The house doesn't smell like smoke because I keep a few windows cracked all the time. That's just how warm it gets in here!
There are places in the UK..London for example that are very expensive. It's best to live in the country. However, it's all relative really. Citizens of the UK have so many benefits paid for them that they have more money in many cases. It's really not that different than here. In 05, a UK citizen could move here and almost double their pension. Then the economy tanked and so I don't know what the current exchange rate is. I actually heard an economist on NPR talking about how it would be very wise for americans to consider moving to Ireland and that they would fair much better their financially than they ever will in the USA. I can't help but wonder if that wasn't some propaganda plug for Irish Tourism??? Cynicism abounds. I have even considered moving to a small New England town. I'm not a southern hearted woman. I have always been out of my element in these parts of the mid atlantic. I like small towns with small friendly pubs and friday night dances.
I traveled alone to SFrancisco and Hawaii when I was younger and it was sort of a downer actually. I mean, I loved SF and Hawaii but I wished so much that I had someone to share it with. The most hilarious thing occurred.........after I checked into my hotel in Hawaii, a young man was following me around. One day, he boldly approached me on the beach and began apply suntan lotion without even asking. He was much younger too and seemed mighty confident for someone his age. Anyway, it turned out that he was there with his parents and they all lived almost my next door to me back home. There's a moral to this story. You see, you can run as far as you believe you need to but the past will always catch up to you. hahahahha I try to be happy where I am and count my blessings but it's getting tough. Yesterday my nutty neighbor was fighting with her husband in her front yard wearing nothing but her underwear in the cold. The worst part of this was that her undies didn't match! How tacky is that? hahaha The police arrived and mediated. This is a weekly event around here. Pema Chodron became one of my interests because at one time I actually wanted to become a Buddhist nun. The only problem I have though is that it seems rather selfish to isolate and not serve. So, I never pursued that path.
I never get lonely unless I'm with someone who I can't relate to. There's nothing worse than that as far as I'm concerned. There's no greater sense of feeling lonely than knowing that anything you say or feel is completely dismissed, overlooked, constantly misunderstood. It's torture.
Any loneliness that I feel today results from fear and not having anyone who understands my concerns about our economic state, etc...

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

You are a pretty good communicator in writing. I think that means something, I just don't know what it means. Except that you are probably happy like I am when you write. No, I read where you were writing about spiritual things and talking to your dog. I guess you nailed it in a way that is unique and interesting for everyone. Mostly I have been writing in a practical way on this forum. Although I did write one satire way back on a kind of new union of the United States. I haven't really thought about writing anything spiritual ... or about trying to teach anything spiritual for a long time. I think I thought I could teach in that way for a while when I was reading 12 step program books. But I think sometimes I can start communicating or thinking wide open and get kind of ungrounded. Kind of get carried away. So maybe it is good I spent years being practical...I don''t know. Hm...VA is sort of urbanish. I"m more in the mid-west...but seems about as conservative as the South.

Hey there is another possible interpretation to your Hawaii story. Maybe someone from home had attachments on you and wanted you to stay the same way and not change. lol People never want us to change. Well, I'm just joking around about that one. But maybe I have a superstitous side.

Hm...I was sort of imagining you in a rural area burning wood. You are a trail blazer. I see the force is strong in you. Must be the Scottish strength. Funny story about your neibor wanting to conduct business in the street. Seems like maybe one of them was trying to get away from the other. lol I guess some peole want to hold on to you till the issue gets resolved... like a controlling kind of behavior.

[-] 2 points by Gillian (1842) 1 year ago

It's Christmas Eve...oh JOY!

Staying grounded in thought can be difficult for deep thinking individuals. There's nothing wrong with that and I actually enjoy people who have a lot to say but it can be a bit annoying to people who would rather just keep it simple. My friends accepted me for who I am and joked about my deep thinking. One time we were spending the day on the beach and I began trying to map out the tides for entire world based on the currrent tide that day. They of course, smiled and shook their head. " Here she goes...hahahha" I kept asking, where does all that water go exactly? I didn't care that they didn't care and they didn't care that I did. We just had that mutual acceptance. It was good.

Interesting about attachments from the past. My bio father left when I was very young. I only knew him for a short time in my life but when I was 18 I ran into him and then again in a different state, that same year, I ran into him again. This happened oh, a good 5 or 6 times and then in 1999, I needed to fax some business info to my insurance company for a quote and the guy gave me his fax number. When I dialed it, guess what? My father's brother answered and it was my uncle's home! OUCH OUCH. Can you imagine the thoughts going through my mind? SO, I said to one my therapist friend, ' Why in the world is the universe trying to reconnect me to this man?" And, she told me that I must have unfinished business or energy potential that needs to be used properly. Sadly, not long after that, my father died. I enjoy writing and I was once good at it but I'm not the same writer that I was. It's a long story but I took a medication that really affected my language skills and coordination in some respects. My fiddle playing was most obviously affected which angers me and saddens me the most. Music, aside from my dogs, is the love of my life. I could not live without either one of them.
Do you remember the corny cheesy song, " Its a Small World' Anyway, I loved that song as a child but now I can see a lot of profound truth in it.

it's a world of laughter, a world or tears its a world of hopes, its a world of fear theres so much that we share that its time we're aware its a small world after all

its a small world after all its a small world after all its a small world after all its a small, small world

There is just one moon and one golden sun And a smile means friendship to everyone. Though the mountains divide And the oceans are wide It's a small small world

I still sing silly songs like that. I think I should have been a jingle-writer. I'm always putting life events to music.

VA is not urbanish in all areas. There are some truly rural mountain regions that would surprise you. I research a lot of history in Appalachia and it's just such an amazing story. Everything from music to gene pools and cultural differences, linguistics. Appalachia is one of the most diverse gene pools in this country and I would suspect that many of the Scotch-Irish became so in order to survive because it was safer than being from African origins. The downfall of the rural areas can be the conservative nature of the people for sure. But, lately, I don't really see where it matters anymore what party we belong to. We're all cloaked in corruption from both sides.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Yes, I guess I am like that thinking and wondering. I dont seem that self actualized... in that now with internet might be able to find so much I stll wonder about. But I do like to think. Maybe you have to be that way to like the Gandi movie and be interested in Asia and Eastern thought. The was abook written by a priest about prayer. He said there was 3 kinds of people: One that prayed and you knew he was doing it, One that had to work at Prayer to get to the right place, and one that just would not get it. My father is a good role model in many ways. He is old school, reads the paper every day, keeps learning everyday, stays busy, self-made man, learned the hard stuff in K-12, put himself through college for Science, ended up an engineer. I'm a lot like him in someways and people say I remember them of him. But he is a different person. He is a director. He is in charge and always wanted to be in charge. And he seems distant as a father since he is sort of the work-aholic type. And in fact he was divorced by my mother for this. But he is from a different time, so it is complicated to generalized. I was affected by the post Sex Revolution, drug revolution, and tv advertising revolution. I'd like to say I am more down to earth or humble that our patriarchs. But not sure it isn't apples and organges. We do know that people operate differently. Did you hear about the 4 dramas from James Redfield? have you heard about the main personality tests. Seems I would come out as aloof, conservative, cautious, and maybe want everyone to get along. But I probably rebel against authority at the same time. I don't buy into the capitalist dream of our patriarchs. To me there are winners and losers, and no one is trying to bring up the losers at all.

That is funny... I actually like a lot of the simple folk music and simple songs like Jingles. But, I kind of hate the AM radio commercials these days. They play over and over and seem so dumb or dumbed down. really crap. But I don't mind musak in the store while I am shopping. I kind of like it. Maybe it has a basis like new age music.

Yes, I think there is an Appalacha trail that goes from way East to way West. Very totally nature. And there are some very poor people I guess along the way. Moutain music is interesting in the folk music traditions. I might feel nervous around such conservative and religious people. But there is real soul about learning music and playing for the community. Oh actually my family has some roots in the midwest and most heavily in a state that is within the mountains of Appalacha.

yeah, I kind of see conservatives, midwesterners, the heartland, as True Believers. The believe in the military and in service to teh country. But the news channels don't show any international news. The news on tv is limited to like 10 minutes of air time. I just dont think the True Believers know much about their country & government. But others will tell you my local government is making deals with corporations, doing public private partnerships, being influenced, ... I hate to be hard on community rec centers, or educational institutions... but locally they have gone beyond that in some partnership deals. I know you probably agree. We have so many bills and when you look at them... they look like financial schemes to get us to pay a set amount every month.

[-] 1 points by Gillian (1842) 1 year ago

Most everything today is tied to some scheme to make us pay. Even the direct deposits into your checking account were designed to make it easy for anyone to control your account and your money. It's a strange world today and I know it's not just my 'mature' perception. It's worse than I ever imagined. I'm so stressed out now about the ObamaCare scheme. Once again, we will pay more for less, and less and less Your father is like my grandfather except that my g-father was very much a part of my life. He was a wonderful man, very sensitive, very creative and very scientific. He was very gentle at home but at work he was quite a leader. He was a Gentle General ( literally). Yes, I've heard about Redfield and I've played with the personality tests before. I think when I was institutionalized, they gave me those tests...hahahha
The capitalist dream of our forefathers does not apply today at all. When I consider the opportunities that my ancestor immigrants had available, it's no wonder they were successful. I really don't have those same opportunities. The other thing is that we were more human before 9-11 and people related to one another differently. I remember in college how my boyfriend, dressed in cut-off jean shorts and no shirt, saw a local big business owner on the side of the road mowing and he stopped and introduced himself and requested an interview for a job. He got the job and has been a huge success with this same company ever since. It's rare that anyone could get a job like that today. It's so complicated now...everything is so complicated. Aside from the more available opportunities in the early years, much of the land that our ancestors acquired was given to them by the government. I don't think our government would even consider giving our veterans 2 hundred acres or more in addition to a pension.

I've always been a rebel and I do well in business for myself. But, it's become increasingly difficult to afford a small business anymore and frankly, I don't even believe that the local governments even want small businesses UNLESS they are the BNI, Chamber member types. I'm not into all that networking crap and the referrals they provide turn out to be losers. It's just another organization that helps companies derive passive income for basically doing nothing. Many are incompetent in their field. Gee, sounds like corporate America. I was invited once to attend a BNI meeting and I decided not to go last minute. Oh my gosh, you wouldn't believe the hell the woman put me through for not attending. She even had her husband call me and cuss me out. It was like being harassed by a cult.

Oh, I heard this morning on the Diane Rehm show on NPR that she's going to have Wendell Barry on there next time. That will be a very good show. Check it out if you have time. Wendell of truly one of the wisest and intelligent men in America today. Too bad he isn't president.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Have to be honest. I wasn't successful in office work, but I did advance and get more money. Not sure how to word it. No one ever really is successful in office work. There are always people above you and they can take the credit and give you the blame. But mostly they take the power, authority and responsiblity. That is sort of why I say you give up your soul for the system. But I learned a lot for over 20 years. And I should pat myself on the back instead of focusing on the failures, perfectionism, competitive feedback, or even valuing myself poorly because of my work situations.

Yes, I'm sure we were more human before. Now they gather data from everywhere and really you are not you. Yes, the Land grab was a kind of one time thing. There might be land in one of the Dakotas for free today though. They had a program a couple of years back. It is a town in the middle of nowhere. I suppose we could use military to force people off the land in a foregin country ...and then allow someone to come in and buy it for development ...like oil or mining. Never say never with this bunch.

Hm...Yes, I sent a emails to some people about starting a franchise. I blew it off. But got a couple of pushy types call me back. Not as bad as what you explained though. Yeah, I am just not turned on by Herba life, Amway, and that kind of sale job. I can't get past the idea that you are selling, but pretend to be a friend or something.

Rent Seeking. People playing the middleman. get a cut for doing little to nothing.

They give those personality tests at the college and there are people that do it privately to help you find a career path (one type). Another type test came out a Greek Temperments. Can't remeber, but took one of the tests during a downsizing period at work. Actually like one that is similar to numerology... comes from a greek guy that did a lot with numbers. I can look you up some day in my book, but would have to get your complete birth day (personal info), so ... well it is in a Book by Dan Millman, The Life you were Born to live, includes spiritual laws.

http://www.peacefulwarrior.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=43&Itemid=58

[-] 1 points by Gillian (1842) 1 year ago

Greek Temperments? I do have one of those! hahaha Franchises are a pain...don't do it. Seriously. You're better off starting your own business. Once again, in a franchise, you're living someone elses dream or passion.

It would be interesting to find out what path I should take.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Here I confused you. =;o) There are four temperaments: the choleric, the melancholic, the sanguine, and the phlegmatic.

http://www.sedevacantist.com/misc/temperaments.html
http://www.greekmedicine.net/b_p/Four_Temperaments.html
http://personality-testing.info/tests/4T.php

The Dan Millman book is good, but sort of tells you which Spiritual Laws you should work on. Like numerology it is saying here are your numbers and so you will find you have gifts like such and such, but you also have to be careful that you aren't living life in the negative. So be sure to learn your life issues and learn the spiritual laws.

You can see other famous people that had the same numbers that you had. But you still have to chose your own path. For instance it might say I was a creativty and confidence, Cooperation and Balance, Expression and Sensitivity, Stability and Process, Freedom and Discipline, Vision and Acceptance, Trust and Openness, Abundance and Power, Integrity and Wisdom.

There might be a law of Flexibility, Choices, Responsibility, Balance, Process, Patterns, Discipline, Perfection, Present Moment, No Judgements, Faith, Expectations, Honesty, Higher Will, Intuition, Action, Cycles.

Looks like you birth number would be different somewhat from the Laws that you need to learn.

Have a great day.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34898) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Even if you let the ego-maniacs do all of the work. For another sailor:

Search for tommorow

[-] 2 points by Gillian (1842) 1 year ago

What a blast from the past! Of all the hundreds of times that I heard that song, it surely never meant anything to me like it did just now. Thanks for sharing! Wow, what an appropriate song for today.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34898) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

I know - Right? Who woulda thought - new age - awakening. Now we seem to be moving in that direction. Who knows what tomorrow will bring - but I think we are on the way to a better world for all.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Wow, we have some things in common. I like Pema Chodron and have at least 1 audio, and 2 books.

Panama was thinking some people run the air conditioner to keep the insects out of the apartment ...but that might be in lower elevation. I have a book that shows Electricity for a family of 4 at $100 per month in Panama city...think it is common for poorer towns to have different electric rates. I will have to pump you for more info on Panama...But will send this while reading your post.

Well, don't really think I have enough to buy a yacht. Was looking for a live aboard kind of boat more of inboard motor with a cuddy for shower & sleeping & hot plate, sink, refrig. I guess salt water will run up the maintenance costs like on water pump & engine. I did see some nice larger boats (Trawlers) maybe in the $50K range, maybe some in the $20K range in Thailand on line. Locally I saw one small one for $13K, Crestline, Crownline, clean, but might have been small to actually live aboard. Trawlers are slow may have originally been for work boats, so probably not the most fun to travel in (slow maybe, but have ocean going fuel tanks & water tanks). Part of the Yacht dream might be just being in the marina and maybe hoping a short way to a new marina. Read a wild report of a boat's history out of California, how a cheaper boat was bought fitted out, sold, fitted better, sailed down to Mexico, maybe went through the Panama Canal, maybe went to Hawaii, then might be for sale in Malaysia after spending some time in Thailand. Or maybe it is just in Thailand.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34898) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Good comment. Work for the good of the work to society would be a real plus. Is there really a need to work ourselves to death? Life is so much more than work - though don't expect too many employers to see that - not at this moment in time anyway. Much deprogramming to be accomplished 1st.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34898) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Good comment. Work for the good of the work to society would be a real plus. Is there really a need to work ourselves to death? Life is so much more than work - though don't expect too many employers to see that - not at this moment in time anyway. Much deprogramming to be accomplished 1st.

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Here are some good lyrics for you. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ginqTXkCc9U Merry Christmas. Peace be with you. I wish the highest and best good for you in the new year.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34898) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Best wishes for you and yours as well. Moody Blues - very good song.

All we are trying to say Is we are all we've got You and me just cannot fail If we never, never stop

Bless OWS/Occupy and all who are trying to make a better world for ALL.

In compliment : Search for tommorow

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Thanks I think I will Bless OWS/Occupy. I wish for good, I wish for peace, I wish for growth, spiritual growth for the USA. And in the name of spirit bless Iraq, Bless Pakistan, Bless Afghanistan, Bless Libya, Bless Syria who are all at war. I wish all the spirits around me help to bring spiritual growth and Light to the world. It is time. So be it. Let's bring Light to the World, our earth, our home, our life.

Thanks, I was ready for Styx.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34898) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Occupy the Happening Time for the world to wake-up.

Hey life, look at me I can see the reality 'Cause when you shook me, took me, outta my world I woke up Suddenly I just woke up to the happening

When you find that you left the future behind 'Cause when you find a tender love You don't need to take care of Then you better beware of the happening

One day you're up When you turn around You find your world is tumbling down It happened to me and it can happen to you

I was sure, I felt secure Until love took a detour, yeah! Riding high on the top of the world it happened Suddenly it just happened I saw my dreams torn apart When love walked away from my heart And when you lose a precious love you need to guide you Something happens inside you, the happening

Now I see life for what it is It's not a dream It's not a bliss It happened to me and it can happen to you Ooh, and then it happened Ooh, and then it happened Ooh, and then it happened

Is it real? Is it fake? Is this game of life a mistake? 'Cause when I lost the love I thought was mine for certain Suddenly it starts hurting I saw the light too late When that ficked finger of fate Yeah! It came and broke my pretty balloon I woke up Suddenly I just woke up

So sure, I felt secure Until love took a detour 'Cause when you got a tender love You don't take care of Then you better beware of The happening

[-] 3 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

"Suddenly I just woke up" - beautiful

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34898) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

The Happening {:-])

That sudden awakening can really be something.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

"Like the sun rising through the morning clouds" :-)

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (34898) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

I am trying to see if we can get that image or one like it at the top of the forum page. {:-]) Logo and header laid over top ( combined with ) the image.

Also like a quick plunge 1st thing in the AM into cold water - wow that woke me up and got my attention.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I completely agree. The sun through the morning clouds is a good image.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (34898) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Sunlight Streaming through the Logo or from it or onto it. {:-])

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Cool! :) That's part of a powerful statement made by Breyton Breytonbach shortly before he was sentenced to prison for his nonviolent protest activities in South Africa. Here's the full quote:

"With confidence, we lay our case before the whole world. Whether we win or whether we die, freedom will rise here like the sun through the morning clouds."

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (34898) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

I think imagery is an important part to completing communications - a necessity of gr8 complete(?) communications. Difference in providing a good presentation and presenting an awesome presentation.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34898) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

We are all ready for the age....

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Hey I was thinking abou that last week, but didn't look for it. If I think back to the behavior of th Romans in the Age of Christ. I feel pretty sure we could only now be entering the Age of Aquarius. So hope is in order. Or perhaps the power of imagining, expecting, antipicating, and asking for the social change... combined with education and service will help usher in the new age.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34898) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

The new age will be entered with an awakening ( I think it must ). It is time and long past time.

[-] 1 points by Gillian (1842) 1 year ago

I'm really upset that so many stores, including McDonald's and Walgreens are planning on being open on Christmas. I think it's just so unnecessary. People need to plan ahead more and not rely on stores being open. I remember those days when we knew that we couldn't even go to a 7-11 on Christmas. Corporations are greedy but so are too many Americans. An old adage that someone told me years ago: People treat you the way you teach them to treat you.

[-] 1 points by Gillian (1842) 1 year ago

I completely understand you. This is why I spend most of my time alone and I don't have any family either. It's not really how I want to live but it's the most I can tolerate right now. I'm so fed up with the system, my country, the people in it.
I am hoping to find a smaller community in a different country but it really is a huge undertaking and I'm alone so it makes it that much harder. So, I'm stuck here for now and I'll do what I can to help out and hope for the best outcomes.

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Yeah, I'm with you. Throwing out old house stuff has got me stuck. It would be better to set some goals with someone else about the different phases of moving on in life.

I dont' really have much connection to the local community as I haven't been here long. People are pretty polite and conservative. But my mind is kind of broad about culture, the globe, other philosophies or ways of living. I was attracted to Europe long ago. haven't felt it was ever affordable option. Oh, yes, smaller communities seem better. Heard there was a guy in Mindo, Ecuador, now who visited and decided to set up a Zen center or something like that. Heard of someone running a small shop in San Juan Del Sur, Nicaragua, who does yoga in her spare time. There is a woman that went to Panama and ended up in Panama City teaching yoga.

I think we can create a meaningful life if we can get away from the corporate system. And in the USA there is so much systemic risk as all systems start to be connected, populations grow, and we end up in a tax system that makes us not only dependent on government (all people surely are), but somehow at risk because of our dependence on government stability and huge government systems. Not sure I explained that last point well enough... we want a log from our government, but not sure they really represent us any more.

I ran into some people looking at commune ideas in the 1990s. The old hippy idea, but more practical. They were talking about sharing a house, knowing everyone would either chip in on household jobs or pay alittle more rent. rent could depend on the size of the private room area. Everyone has to pay or do work around the house so this pretty much meant everyone had a job. You would never try that project with someone you didn't trust ...unless you felt you had rules of behavior. Normally, maybe one person would sign the mortgage. People in third world countries live so close together and are so family oriented, they might not mind having small kids around (normal). I never thought adult Americans would want that though. The movie The Beach is about this subject.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beach_(novel)

[-] 2 points by Gillian (1842) 1 year ago

I recently watched a documentary on The Farm in Tennessee. You may be familiar with it. It was once a hippie commune but today it's a yuppie farm for people who truly don't want to live in mainstream America and subject their children to it. I believe these ' communes' are now called sustainable communities where everyone contributes to the community's needs..food, water, income/farming/other goods sold. I could live like that but not a lot of folks could. It's not easy. My parents sent me to live on a 70's commune as punishment once and I LOVED it. I didn't want to go back home..hahahha It was hard work and there were a lot of necessary rules but they all made sense!

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Wow, you could be a role model and a teacher then. Yeah, mixing a new lifestyle with a corporate jobs might be stressful. But if you have your work cut out for you. You know what you have to learn and do and you have plenty of time. There would be a hump to get over for me I suppose. Well, chop wood, carry water. It is zen. But of course if you aren't ready to learn... then a change in perspective is needed. I might feel like I am being pushed by some personalities who want to take change like it's the army or something. But wouldn't think most people would be like that until someone sits around distracted by tv, computer or video game all the time... not doing their work. I suppose I can be kind of serious having worked and gotten older, and retired.

Yeah, I was too young for woodstock 1. But I think the Farm Commune was the only ones to bring food to woodstock. Not sure if they also took care of the people that were too high. I saw something on tv before. I don't have cable or satelite. Maybe I just got half an hour about the farm & woodstock. Someone told me there are so doomers down in Costa Rica where they all buy a farm with a small house for like $75K. I guess they try to be self sustaining. Some couples buy vineyard in Argentine and build a house for the work couple to live in. Coffee beans. Fruit trees. Like you say a lot to learn if you get a boat. Lot to learn if you get a farm.

Looked at fish farming last week. Was thinking could raise chickens and a few goats. Not sure you can eat alpaca or Llama. People raise them for the cashmir. I guess Llamas will protect your sheep from coyotes. Live stock and fish are complicated. A hostal with fruit trees might be simple. I think I saw a B & B for less than $100K in Ecuador, but didn't have much yard, maybe at 6-8000 feet altitude, probably doesn't need a/c or heat, 5 minutes from a thermal bath, near a world famous indian market called Otavalo. Running a hotel ties you up a bit as any business. But maybe raising live stock or having an orchard and fishing for trout in a river give you plent of time to explore and freedom. Anyway... learning spanish sounds good. Better to rent for a year or two where ever you go.

Commune probably works better when you are young if the work is farm work, huh. People get back and other pains after middleage. Just seems like fruit trees grow all one their own. The only work is if you decide to take you stuff to market which you don't. Any of your friends have live in workers? In Ecuador, Costa Rica, Panama probably often you have someone live in as a maid, security for the house while you are away, or maybe a gardener. Security is sort of the norm in Latin America.

I do appreciate the small town idea you mentioned. I like it when people wave when you drive by and they don't even know you. Knew someone that moved way out and they ended up collecting water off their roof and had like 3 giant plastic cisterns set up with water that took away from the appearance of the place. Wood stoves are probably okay. I notice from camping that it is hard to get out of the sack when it is cold. Pretty much have to start a fire to get woke up and warmed up.

See we both probably talk the same way because we have too many possiblities in mind. Which is kind of where we start the conversation. =;o

[-] 2 points by Gillian (1842) 1 year ago

If I remember correctly, the current 'Farm' is 600 acres and makes money by selling their tofu. A lot of these types of communities make tofu, baskets, pottery and they sell their goods online, at farmer's markets, craft fairs. You must apply to live there and then you are put on a one year trial. The goal is to make certain that you want to be there. They have their own graveyard too and a lot of folks are in there..babies as well as old hippies. The people of any (small) commune must be on the same page, share the same goals, must be willing to be objective and participate in planning, executing, etc... otherwise, such a small community would be unbearable to live in with all the drama and eventually, it would fail. This happened to my Unitarian church when the Humanists arrived and decided how everyone else should believe. The rules are not oppressive. The rules are designed to promote compassion, success, productivity and efficiency. I remember the first rule I learned was to never ever wear your shoes into the main house. Makes sense to me. Who wants to spend their time cleaning up after inconsiderate people? This is why I'm divorced! We built our own cabins with the assistance of others. I had a small log, one room cabin and a pet bumblebee named Bernie who stayed with me the entire summer. We made pottery, had a huge berry patch that we opened up to the public and sold the berries by the basket. We sold eggs too and raw milk. Our goats mowed the grassy areas and kept the woods clean for us. We had a lot of visitors. The interesting thing is that all the original members were Harvard lawyers who decided after the 70's that our american system was so flawed that they wanted nothing to do with it.
I used to be involved in fish farming/fish culturing but I haven't done that in awhile.
There are many things I'm interested in but I don't have any money now to invest in anything. It's frustrating a heck. But, I'm a survivor and I'll find something eventually. I HOPE.

I don't know if I would want to live in Latin America. I have a friend here who is from Nicaragua and he has a business down there growing orchids and other plants. His wife runs that business but he's here and so are his children. WHY??? I don't know. I don't pry. Something seems 'off' in that equation. But, maybe he needs the income from both places?

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Wow, hope the Harvard Lawyers are helping out these days. Thanks for all the info there. Could be that Nicaraguans retire back in their home country. After all the people back home like to sing, dance, celebrate, they have soul, they have a wonderful culture of poets, literature, politics, - I guess. I hear there are some muggers in Nicaragua, but guess you just give them the money. There is an old guy living in san Juan Del Sur who wrote that he has been mugged like twice, lives in a 4 bedroom for $200 a month. I think he deep sea fishes, he never really answered back on that. He loves it there. But I think he said he was mugged by 3 guys with a machette.. The other thing is it is pretty hot in Nica unless you are on the coast or in the moutains. They have some very great soil for farming in some places. Granada is a UNESCO site as a beautiful colonial city, one of the oldest in America I think. But it has become Gringo-ized, lots of tourist stuff, signs. The up side is Managua has a great hospital I guess.

See wow, you have a lot to teach, you have skills, determination, strength, spirit. Guess you thrived in the Commune if you failed in marriage... sorry for your loss. You reminded me of Belize. The Menonites in Belize will build a hard wood house for you for like $20K, but the thing is huricanes. I think I like these small hard wood houses, but don't know if my house would be cluttered up with personal belongings everywhere. You probably don't have alot of stuff at this point. I still have to let my stuff go. I might end up storing stuff that is project oriented. Seems most of my stuff never got used really. Have paint for trying my hand at art some day for instance. See how great it is to be on a commune when you are young... all that support and criticism of your work. lol

You know if you lived on the farm, Bernie might have been a real person. Sometimes reality is clouded. LOL

[-] 1 points by Gillian (1842) 1 year ago

Bernie seemed like a real enough person to me but maybe the pot smoke that I passively inhaled was affecting my perception. ;D

There are muggers and violent people everywhere. If it's not a gun, it's a bomb or both. However, living in a foreign country makes anyone more vulnerable to crime. A lot of Asian countries use women as bait to attract male tourists into the hands of criminals. Belize is known to do this as well. I don't speak Spanish so I would be at a loss. The only words I know are burrito and siesta..I guess that's a good start as I would nourished and well rested.

I have a lot of things actually and most are things I would not want to part with. I've already ' cleaned house' the Feng Shui way. Seriously. I don't have anything that takes up space with no purpose or good feeling associated with it. I hate meaningless clutter as it clutters my mind and makes me anxious.

Look, I don't know how it is that you see determination and strength in me. Seriously. I'm tired. I feel really weathered and I want someone to take care of me for a change!!!.....whine, whine I'm so jealous of the Wives of Orange County...hahahahha

What do you want to do? Did you choose a career based on what others wanted for you or did you follow your passion?

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Yeah, heard something about mugging in Philippines. A transvestite would lure soldiers and mug them. I might have actually talk to one of those in Vietnam, Saigon in 2003. Hadn't heard that about Belize, wow. Belize is English speaking country, former Pirate haven.

You know what they say about building relationships. Ask for what you want and be willing to negotiate. I mean do you want some one to go get you beers? Do you want back rubs, foot rubs, scalp massage? Hm... kind of sounds like you want to be able to sit down ... and maybe get food and drink brought to you. You love your dogs, so you love to take them outside or for a walk. Maybe you are strong, but you have worked hard today.

Well, my father was practical. Go to college, get a job. I ended up taking business degree to improve my chances of getting a job in the recession of the time. I didn't really have a big passion for anything else that didn't seem like fantasy. I could have be a creative person, film, music, art. But never had any encouragement in my home? So I ended up in office work because it was practical. It paid off BIG Time. What a deal. All I had to do was give up my Soul. Because after all I don't like authority figures and eventually began working against them perhaps. Clearly I drank because I moved to places where I had no roots, big city, and no young people that werent' married. Not sure if anyone ever gets good at drinking. A rebelious drinker is headed for trouble too by the way. lol

Maybe I can start a vocation of being a human. Just hang out. Learn more words or Spanish or German. Learn more History. Just ...hm... maybe I need relationships. Of course, if I get some place I'll start talking to people and try to be nice. lol

[-] 1 points by Gillian (1842) 1 year ago

THe problem is that I don't want to negotiate anymore. I've been doing that for too long...rather, compromising and settling for less than I deserve. So, I admit, a lot of my misfortune is my own damn fault. I don't drink or do drugs though ;D hahahha Maybe that is my problem! Yes, you're right. I need to sit down and I wish I had someone who could take lead for awhile whether it's cooking or paying bills or walking dogs.

I didn't have any encouragement from my nuclear family to do anything. The only guidance I ever had was from a guidance counselor at my high school who came down here after I graduated to help me get into college and show me the ropes. Thank God for her.

It saddens me to hear you say that all you had to do was give up your soul. That is exactly what happens to most of us, I believe. It's as if America's motto is: Come to America, lose yourself and become what we want you to become. Even our immigrant ancestors had to do this in many cases.
Drinking is just a way to cope- a substance to help us avoid reality. When I was dealing with my psycho neighbor this past summer, I started drinking wine to relax because I was literally about to implode with anxiety. But, I'm fine now. I drank more when I was younger but that was to cope as well. The problem was that drinking causes me to self destruct in all sorts of ways so it's best for me not to drink..at least in volume. Oh and I did go on a healthy drink binge...vodka and olives for dinner...at one time.

You may not feel all that fulfilled at the moment but it's a journey and one worth taking. All the external/material stuff is meaningless really. Learn to enjoy your own company and then maybe join a local group. I belong to one local chapter here and although it's not terribly exciting, it does keep me connected with folks who share the same interests.

You sound like someone who would do well in business for yourself. As long as you love what you do, you'll be fine.

It's time for me to head over to the shelter . Have a good day and I'll check back later.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Thanks. Well that is what friends and relations are for to take your do out for a walk and take a load off you back. =;o) Same neibor? I guess you have some more stories to tell. Yeah, I think I'm easy mostly, but actually I do get anxious about yelling people & Load noises. People that create drama seem to know how to pull you into the drama if you arean't involved yet. Like an addictive personality.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Oh yeah. Just talking with others about it in person and online is a good start. There's a great Cornel West speech that is a joy to watch that'll give you the feeling of the great community / tradition you're a party of.

This video is EXTRAORDINARY. This world famous Harvard / Princeton professor knocks it all of the park with one of the most dynamic speeches I've ever witnessed. Important to watch all three parts. I recommend beginning the first section at "4:38" on the youtube clock (skips the introductions / thank you's :) . Enjoy.

part 1 of 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjZydhfUxqs (start at 4:38 to skip introductions)

part 2 of 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTOfjle-fK4&feature=related

part 3 of 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dH1uxEMoBMY&feature=related

Cornel West once said: "Justice is what love looks like in public." This guy is fantastic.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Yep, he is captivating, deep, and has a depth that few have. Communicating like public speaking opens up something in us. But Cornel has 'real' depth.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

He's pretty fun to listen too also because he's such a damn character.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Thanks. I'll have to save them to favorites.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Cool. I think you'll love it.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

It's time for us to speak up in casual conversations in our daily lives and in more formal settings as individuals and in groups. It's time to say the emperor has no clothes. There is real power in this. It takes away the stigma of speaking up, makes it easier for others to speak their own minds. People already know the emperor has no clothes. Our revolution will slide into high gear when we, the millions, help them feel comfortable saying it out loud. This is our task. To embolden them. Once we do, we will have entered a virtuous cycle and there will be no stopping us.

Every chance we get, in a strategic, calm and considerate way, we need to make it plain, in the most casual of conversation when the topic comes up. Having more and more and more people doing this IS the revolution because once we hit that virtuous cycle, we will discover that we have more in common than we have separating us.

Once we discover that, we Americans will be able to make decisions from a position of unified strength instead of demands from a position of divided weakness.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34898) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Nice post - In compliment:

Search for tommorow

We are all ready for the age....

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Thanks very much. Will check these out tonight.

[-] 1 points by trashyharry (1157) from Waterville, NY 1 year ago

We must topple the Oligarchs.We must identify their weaknesses and knock them down.The honor of doing so is ours.We must claim our place in history.***"All you Zombies,hide yer faces-All you people in the Street-All now sitting in High Places-The rain is gonna fall on you..."

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I understand that feeling -- and I want the dominance and manipulation of the 1% to end too -- But we should channel the anger into productive action and, even more importantly, we should address this problem of 1% rigging the system from the approach of love and nonviolence. If we don't, we'll just replace the current situation with something worse and we'll lose ourselves in the process. I agree with many others who say that really the 1% are just as stuck in this system as we are. It's just that their toys are shinier. If anything, they might actually be more stuck because they actually think they may be able to find security and escape death through materialism -- whereas most of us don't even have the chance to be deluded into that.

I'm not in any way trying to romanticize poverty or struggle. The economic struggles of American families and families around the world are obviously very real and we need to push as hard as we can to reform our system so it's rigged to benefit all people instead of just the 1%. All I'm saying is that the mindset we have under the current arrangement is causing all of us to suffer under materialism, including the 1%. Once we nonviolently unseat the corporatists who have grabbed hold of our great republic, we will all, 100% of us, benefit from a new more community oriented approach, a tide that raises all boats instead of sinking most to benefit a few yacht owners.

I want us to go at this forcefully. With forceful nonviolent direct action of all kinds -- blockades, marches, sit ins, walk outs, boycotts, mainstream political participation, writing, speaking up in everyday conversation. . . It's all positive rebellion and will bring change as long as we do it with love in and hearts and as long as we nonviolntly attack the problem (the mindset) rather than attacking the people stuck in it.

Because, truth be told, many of us have the same materialistic mindset and suffer as a result just like the 1%. It's just that we're pissed we don't have what they have. If we can go beyond that anger and realize we DON'T really want what they have, that will set us free for real and transformative action that will help lift all of us, including the 99% and the 1%, out of the darkness and into the light :)

[-] 1 points by trashyharry (1157) from Waterville, NY 1 year ago

We must topple the Oligarchs.The main thing they have is money-but the material comfort they derive from that is NOT the main problem.I have no problem with their lives of luxury-the problem I have with them is that they use Wealth as a Weapon-and with murderous effectiveness.Using Wealth as a weapon to pulverize and annihilate rivals is an essential part of the Inner Workings of the Capitalist System.As far as the weaknesses of the Oligarchs-they have a few that could be their undoing.If I can figure out what some of them are-surely you can-I think you are a highly intelligent person-more so than I am***LOL

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I see what you're saying. I understand that feeling. But I think it's not enough to have the understanding of what's wrong. What really matters is what we do about it. I worry that we'll strike back in anger (instead of striking with love). If we rebel with anger in our hearts, we'll end up just like them. Martin Luther King, Jr. spent. HUGE amount of time talking about agape, nonviolence and the power of that approach, the power of loving your "enemy". Once we have sympathy for what they're going through, we can be very effective in helping to change the course of things.

[-] 3 points by trashyharry (1157) from Waterville, NY 1 year ago

"Chains of gold are still chains."

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I agree, but which chains are you referring to?

[-] 1 points by trashyharry (1157) from Waterville, NY 1 year ago

Well-I would refer you to a couple of movies which were created by a man named Jamie Johnson.Mr. Johnson is one of the heirs of the Johnson&Johnson "family of companies."One of these movies is called "Born Rich," and is about the unique and bizarre predicament of inheriting enormous wealth.The movie consists of interviews of Mr.Johnson's rich young friends and some of his family members and family employees about the Taboo Subject of The Money.At one incredibly bizarre point,the 21 year old filmmaker documents a surreal conversation with his father where his father actually advises him to devote his life to collecting Ancient Maps and Manuscripts.This film was highly praised by critics.The second film entitled "The One Percent" is also quite good.It is actually a continued documentation of the fear,anxiety,paranoia and all-around discomfort of wealthy people around the subject of The Money,as well as partial documentation of the increasingly intense pressure on the filmmaker to Stop Filming and Stop asking Questions about The Money.The films are very successful at achieving what they set out to do-to give these hidden people a chance to talk about themselves,their families and their situation-something that is generally totally forbidden.The people themselves come off as being very ordinary.Only one of the people interviewed by Mr.Johnson chose to divest their fortune.After "The One Percent,"which came out over 3 years ago,there have been no more movies,which is a shame because Jamie Johnson seems to have a great deal of talent and it is apparent that he worked very hard on these movies.I'm sorry I can't post a link,but "The One Percent" can be seen at topdocumentaries.com and "Born Rich is on hulu.com.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Awesome. I will check both of those out. Fascinating stuff, especially because you see clearly that The Money doesn't make them much happier than the average person. That's pretty annoying because what that means is that all this disparity that is causing so much pain isn't really doing ANYONE any good. The 1% are blowing it on shiny objects that don't really satisfy them anyway :)

Thanks very much for the recommendation.

[-] 1 points by trashyharry (1157) from Waterville, NY 1 year ago

Also;JFK Jr.'s life was also damaged by Chains of Gold.JFK Jr. was very interested in the study of Drama and took courses in Drama in high school and college in Drama,landing starring roles in many school productions.Supposedly he was an extremely talented and versatile actor whose performances in these school productions were both fascinating and inspired.Upon graduating from college,he planned to pursue a career in acting,but was prevented from following his dreams to Broadway Stardom by his Wealthy mother,who felt that the acting profession was Not Dignified Enough for a Kennedy.Apparently JFK Jr. never really was able to "find something else to do" that he could put his heart into.because he accomplished next to nothing before mysteriosly dying shortly after deciding to enter politics.What a fucking shame.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I know. Great example. The rich eat their young. When you meet these people, you almost always end up feeling sorry for them -- for they are on a guilder treadmill and have a set of odd depressing rules they follow. It's almost like they work FOR the money...not that they earn it but it is something that controls them and constantly has them worrying.

[-] 1 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

Hand over nothing but recognition of you and your fellow human beings need, and that the constitutions purpose is to help you work together and meet them.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Not sure how this relates?

[-] 1 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

With the "plain truth OUT LOUD," about adequate authority for change we "can bring down citadels of falsity". Article V. Recognition of need is what constitutional intent is about and such controls Article V.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Can you be specific? If you could define article V in a few sentences, that would be helpful.

[-] 1 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

The right to alter or abolish with democratic potentials guaranteed by constitutional intent, if the people can know it and agree on its definition and purpose. A right that can control congress and the courts when citizens agree. A right we have been denied for 100 years.

Once citizens understand that, demands to state legislatures for Article V are completely justified

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

But can you give specific examples in plain language of exactly how this "article V" would change the lives of average citizens. Perhaps 3 examples: Matthew the secretary, Susan the doctor and Frannie the mail carrier?

[-] 1 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

Matthew the secretary, Will become informed through the ending of the abridging of free speech and suddenly cease to have interest in partisan politics. Instead, televised polls on TV's bottom 13 channels have toll free numbers for him to register his opinion on information televised regarding ongoing Article V issues. At his job, after the corporation he works for conforms to the loss of personhood, he find that there are a few record keeping tasks he must do in order to prove the corporations innocence at any given time. For the same reason, the corporation complying was able to continue operating with a good profit margin because of privileges granted. Within 2 years the company restructured and became more local reducing his commute to 4 miles from 20. Matthew's social life changed because freedom of expression and speech made communication more important. The arts and theatre morphed into deeply relevant vehicles for human evolution.

Susan the doctor Susan's practice changed rather quickly as the FDA was restructured utilizing as much natural medicine as could be found relevant. Suddenly she was able to refer patients to treatments that previously could not gain acceptance. She found that the new medicaid programs paid her well and easily because of conversion of what was defense money into medical and housing programs that were local. She found that reduced corporate advertising that is exploitive or manipulative caused peoples diets and habits to slowly change improving their health. She found that her liability fears were reduced because courts became much more impartial and attorneys were regulated away from exploitive avarice.

Frannie the mail carrier Frannies pay increased while her responsibilities decreased. Her mail for her route was delivered to her. She sold her car and joined a vehicle coop saving $ but has a car available when needed. Local regulations empowering sustainability brought the proper variety of retail outlets for commodity within a few blocks and there were small offices in the same area that provided interface to government (her job) etc. Rezoning caused by amendment enabling sustainability had renovations in residential areas where small businesses were allowed

[-] 1 points by Gillian (1842) 1 year ago

Love your post! I especially love the vehicle coop! What a fantastic idea. I would be first in line. I wonder how many people could give up that much of their (auto) image?

[-] 1 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

There are many co-ops that can work really well on a local level. Mostly high ticket stuff like equipment for technology, science and construction.

We do need to identify and accept uniformly specific manufacturers which are optimized for sustainability or afford modifications that upgrade them. That would include a commitment to train the next generation of service technician.

Move into a decentralized industrial mode where reduction of transportation and energy costs are the challenge. By our choice as consumers we send a clear signal to corporations.

I forgot something about Frannie the mail carrier;

It turns out the Post Office and its roads were largely responsible for the communications that led to the organization which created the constitution.

Recently high level policy changed requiring the PO to create pension security 70 years or something into the future. This created a massive economic pinch in operating costs and suddenly the post office went from being know as the only division of the federal government that made money to a loser. This was done artificially.

I now think this was done to try and destroy the structure which begat the communications leading to the constitution. Frannie the mail carrier benefitted from restored administrative integrity to the US postal service.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Holy crap. What a fantastic response. Thanks very much for taking the time to lay this out. I need to review it more in detail over the next few days in order to understand and ask additional questions. But for now, I just wanted to thank you for the great response.

[-] 1 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

Actually, I have to thank you for asking. These things are not easy to envision inside the box of political disfunction inherited, controlled by elite and corporate interests. Let alone easily connected to amendment from Article V.

The education required to understand and loose fear of our uses of the constitution advances!:-)

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Thanks. I look forward to reading what you wrote and understanding better what you're saying this "article V".

[-] 1 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

Appreciated! A vision of the future with understanding is worth the time to describe for anyone sincerely looking for functional strategy. It just so happens Article V is the tool.

Converting demands into proposed amendments is the key to seeing the wide applicability of Article V in securing our futures.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

But art. V is getting no where! And isn't this just a 1% right wing effort to tighten they're stranglehold on the peoples govt.

[-] 1 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

Article V is a concept breaking free from the chains of deceptions. That the 1% has any capacity to use Article V if America is made constitutional, is not worthy of a deceptive attempt because it would have to deny our human purposes and our sheer numbers.

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

The numbers are non existent in support of art V. What are you talkin about?

[-] 0 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

Ignorance of Article V and how to properly use it to protect rights and freedom is fast disappearing. Along with that is the potential for the 1% TO USE FEAR and prevent citizens from using Article V.

Understanding of Preparatory Amendment can remove all fear of the elite manipulating Article V.

All citizens agree to only vote for delegates that will propose and work to ratify amendments that will effect these changes.

1)End the abridging of free speech 2)Campaign finance reform 3)Secure the vote

After amendments manifesting those changes has its effect, America can easily control Article V by voting in their states assuring that only legislators that can readily accept constitutional intent hold offices.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Non workable. Sorry it's impossible. A fantasy. No momentum.

[-] 0 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

NWO appreciates you think the constitution is a fantasy. Builderbergers do too. The NWO is exstatic, even the WTO appreciates it too. The FBI is relieved, they wish to continue mis representing protestors as terrorists.

As long as they do not overtly stand to protect the rights they use to protect, granted by the US Constitution, they will be ineffective and unpopular with the mainstream.

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

I never said the constitution was a fantasy. That's you blatantly lying 'cause you can't handle the truth.

I said your art V effort was a fantasy. Get it?

[-] 0 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

Proof you lie VQ

http://occupywallst.org/forum/we-have-the-power-to-turn-this-world-around-this-o/#comment-902033

[-] 0 points by rayolite (524) 4 hours ago Ignorance of Article V and how to properly use it to protect rights and freedom is fast disappearing. Along with that is the potential for the 1% TO USE FEAR and prevent citizens from using Article V. Understanding of Preparatory Amendment can remove all fear of the elite manipulating Article V. All citizens agree to only vote for delegates that will propose and work to ratify amendments that will effect these changes. 1)End the abridging of free speech 2)Campaign finance reform 3)Secure the vote After amendments manifesting those changes has its effect, America can easily control Article V by voting in their states assuring that only legislators that can readily accept constitutional intent hold offices.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (15933) 3 hours ago Non workable. Sorry it's impossible. A fantasy. No momentum.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

I didn't see the lie you are accusing me of?

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (34898) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Where is your federal government link to the article V preparatory Amendment - that details what it is and how it is set-up and used?

BTW - if you are talking about article V ? That has nothing to do with controlling what happens at an Article V convention - it just states how a convention is called. Right now - Move To Amend is calling for a specific change - the removal of corpoRAT personhood - using the prescribed method for calling a change to be considered and enacted - a specific and singular change.


[-] 0 points by rayolite (507) 0 minutes ago

The link to your lie? Refusing to consider what preparatory amendment does to an Article V convention renders you unreasonable. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] -2 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

Logic says we prepare for Article V, the nwo would not want people to consider that, just like you.

"Move To Amend is calling for a specific change - the removal of corpoRAT "

Yep, and they are asking congress. Yippee!

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (34898) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

And again you call out a fictional artifice.


[-] 0 points by rayolite (508) 11 minutes ago

You won't reason the effect of Preparatory Amendment, constitutional intent and misrepresent, the nwo loves that. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] -2 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

The link to your lie? Refusing to consider what preparatory amendment does to an Article V convention renders you unreasonable.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (34898) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

I am sure the New World Order loves your attempt to throw open the Constitution of the USA to wholesale change by TPTB.

I am thinking that the nwo/ptb hate the idea of taking a measured and controlled approach to removing impediments to the people regaining their government.


[-] 0 points by rayolite (507) 0 minutes ago

Again, the nwo appreciates your unreasonable act. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] -2 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

You won't reason the effect of Preparatory Amendment, constitutional intent and misrepresent, the nwo loves that.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (34898) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Experiencing a waking dream/fantasy - R U ?


[-] 0 points by rayolite (495) 0 minutes ago

That is what the nwo want people to believe. But I think not. The lurkers get it. Social movements break down with dysfunction to reassemble in function WHEN they need to.

It's quite obvious that the movement was managed into compromising the demands being met. Those demands are real and need to be met. Those people aren't going away.

After watching me kick your ass with reason and law for a few months, they realize the truth and modify their opinions. Slow but sure. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] -2 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

Again, the nwo appreciates your unreasonable act.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

"a fantasy" is what I said referring to you attempts at getting it done.

Not that Art V is a fantasy. That's you blatantly lying again. The truth will set you free. Only your belief that you can accomplish anything through Art V. You can't because you ain't getting anywhere.

It's yourfantasy, but you ain't makin any progress.

[-] 0 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

That is what the nwo want people to believe. But I think not. The lurkers get it. Social movements break down with dysfunction to reassemble in function WHEN they need to.

It's quite obvious that the movement was managed into compromising the demands being met. Those demands are real and need to be met. Those people aren't going away.

After watching me expose your lack of reason and rejection of law for a few months, they realize the truth and modify their opinions. Slow but sure.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

The statement you linked to is my opinion. How can an opinion be a lie?

Do you understand the definition of the word lie?

[-] -1 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

You said Article V is a fantasy then you said you didn't say that. I know its difficult for you.

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

I think this is all a little out there.

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13495) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

who can say if within those citadels there are not princes - and princes always have their royalist followers . . .

[-] -2 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

A falsity that ALEC wants Article V. They want something else. I can say that because Article V must have constitutional intent, and I'm pretty sure ALEC represents political elements that do not want that.

It is a falsity that ALEC wants Article V, they pretend to in order to give fear mongering cognitive infiltrators a chance to make Americans afraid of their constitution.

[-] 3 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Just looked at the link you provided. Wow, ALEC and others sure have that whole mock concern down over the debt while hiding their real agenda. They do effective propaganda though. Most Americans have bought the narrative unfortunately. And conservatives are reading from the libretto, singing along. Jeez this is a fucked up yet beautiful country all at the same time. Absurdity.

[-] -2 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

"mock concern", nice term. I consider their support for Article V to be the same. Take for example the word "intent" is not found on GF's link.

Article V is ALL ABOUT constitutional intent, but ALEC doesn't mention it. This is consistent with my assertion.

This gives way to a new movement & thread about it soon. I LOVE testing authority, don't you?

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I don't know man. This is starting to seem kind of fishy. Do you work for ALEC?

[-] -1 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

I'm testing ALEC hard. Watch this!

http://occupywallst.org/forum/action-petition-alec-to-make-a-statement-about-the/

I'm after ALEC to be accountable for their position in this controversy here. Way too much referral to them and joint usage of ALEC as reason to fear Article V. I see a very developed and sophisticated joint usage to create fear in the people with abuse of quasi authority. Fear of the constitution which is VERY unconstitutional. Let us find out.

[-] 1 points by shooz (17843) 1 year ago

Touche........10X

though I doubt he'll admit it.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Probably not, however, at least he can bring his argument up to date with the rest of us.

[-] 1 points by shooz (17843) 1 year ago

Hasn't happened yet, but you are ever the optimist...............:)

I would expect some indecipherable. gobbledeegook about article V.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

You're probably right. His contract must insist on it.

[-] 0 points by shooz (17843) 1 year ago

Somebody pays him to be a douche?

These kids have it easy these days...........:)

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

They have to be.

[-] 0 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

Your link proves nothing like you might intend it to. What exactly are you pointing at?

Keep in mind, it very much serves the elite to generalize instead of use critical thinking. So if you fail to do that, ummmmm, there are implications to such behavior.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Good luck with all of that. :D

See this? [-] -1 points by rayolite (525) 1 hour ago A falsity that ALEC wants Article V. They want something else. I can say that because Article V must have constitutional intent, and I'm pretty sure ALEC represents political elements that do not want that. It is a falsity that ALEC wants Article V, they pretend to in order to give fear mongering cognitive infiltrators a chance to make Americans afraid of their constitution. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle reply permalink


It means that you are lying.

[-] -2 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

That does not cognit because it has no context. You are busted distorting the issue intentionally.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

You flat out lied.

[-] -3 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

No, proof VQ lied.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/we-have-the-power-to-turn-this-world-around-this-o/#comment-902188

You have not shown where I've lied and are unreasonable. Just like a cognitive infiltrator would be.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

I'm not interested in VQ right at this moment. I'm interested in how you just tried to bullshit your way through ALEC not wanting Article V. Knowing that they use templates for state law.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (34898) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Tell it like it is. You Go Girl !!!

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

He's just being silly now.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (34898) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

He(?) She(?) it (!). This article V BS has been pushed from the very start - by those who would see our rights completely stripped away. The logical approach has always ( at this very point in time ) been campaigns like Move To Amend - clean step by step changes that would bring government back towards supporting the people.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

I agree. I thought it odd that it would come out again after so many months.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (34898) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Trying to sneak back into the conversation after the corpoRAT failure at the polls.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (23270) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 minute ago Dumb ass is now trying the - I double dare ya to sign the petition - fucking lame - ( shill ) what could go wrong(?) - If I am wrong ( shill ) it will be proved so what do you have to lose???

Really??? Lose any rights that remain to us because the process was stolen - fuckin numb-nuts shill.

↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink


He is here to waste time.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (34898) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

That and to mislead the unwary.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Most likely.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (34898) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

They won't give up - even if ( and when ) they are crushed. All they have left is hopes of successful lies.

[-] -1 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

Calling your involvement with conspiracy ALEC is a part of what unfolds. Lets find out what's true. If you are right, they will make a comment on Article V because they really want one (constitutionally).

Sign this and promote others sign it. It does 2 things,

1)IF they are constitutional they will recognize the need for constitutional intent to reside with the people and support preparatory amendment.

2)By doing so, they contribute to the acceptance of Article V because they are an authority that has shown that constitutional intent resides with the people and the principles serving them through free speech, fair campaign finance, and a secure vote.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/action-petition-alec-to-make-a-statement-about-the/

I assert that ALEC would like an unconstitutional Article V, which is what people are afraid of, However, preparatory amendment COMPLETELY changes the situation and does so with great constitutionality.

Technically I ONLY recognize a constitutional Article V. The one they want is not Article V because it does not assure constitutional intent.

GF is pretends to be afraid no matter what, and pretends to understand nothing.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Hon, they don't need to make a statement. You need to look at who the lifelong and current members are and then you need to actually read Article V in the constitution and then you need to pay attention to whom can actually participate in that convention. It doesn't get much more constitutional than that. Then you should peruse their issues.

At first I thought that you were acting but, you really are that fucking stupid.

[-] -2 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

ALEC needs to make a statement if they are proposing Article V because I need to know they are proposing Article V be done constitutionally.

If you think they want Article V, sign it, then if they really do, they will respond saying so. You will be correct.

I'm saying they don't really want an Article V, they are pretending to want one so people like you can point at the members and say Article V is bad because they are bad and they say they want Article V.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

I disagree. I think that you need to read the rest of the information on their site and you need to know who the current lifelong congressional members are. Again, you also need to reread whom may participate.

[-] -1 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

Sorry, I don't advocate reading that because it is not the constitution. If this is about the constitution and Article V. Article V is about constitutional intent. One link you had which should have had the word "intent" on it, did not.

You have interest in ALEC, not I. I'm testing them because you are using them to make people afraid of the constitution. That, is treason against its principles.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Not necessary, dumb ass.

[-] -2 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

You're the one wanting people to read ALEC:-)

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

[-] -1 points by rayolite (533) 3 minutes ago You don't want people to know if ALEC is a fraud?

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The only one who seems to not be aware of this is you..

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

[-] 1 points by rayolite (533) 1 minute ago Wrong. I am saying they really don't want Article V -with constitutional intent. That is the ONLY Article V, fraud. Get it?

Their involvement in promoting Article V is most certainly an act. If it is real, preparatory amendment will be a very exciting concept for them. I doubt that, but I'm willing to find out.

Sign the petition.

↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink


No.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (34898) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Dumb ass is now trying the - I double dare ya to sign the petition - fucking lame - ( shill ) what could go wrong(?) - If I am wrong ( shill ) it will be proved so what do you have to lose???

Really??? Lose any rights that remain to us because the process was stolen - fuckin numb-nuts shill.

[-] -1 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

You don't want people to know if ALEC is a fraud?

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

[-] 1 points by rayolite (533) 0 minutes ago You're the one wanting people to read ALEC:-)

↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink


And you are the one denying their involvement.

[-] -1 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

Wrong. I am saying they really don't want Article V -with constitutional intent. That is the ONLY Article V, fraud. Get it?

Their involvement in promoting Article V is most certainly an act. If it is real, preparatory amendment will be a very exciting concept for them. I doubt that, but I'm willing to find out.

Sign the petition.