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Forum Post: Wayne LaPierre wants to raise firearm dealer license renewals to $50,000!

Posted 1 year ago on Dec. 21, 2012, 3:26 p.m. EST by factsrfun (6714) from Phoenix, AZ
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

I am sure that Wayne LaPierre would not want to add to the deficit, so if we are to put officers in schools we should pay for it with firearm dealer fees.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324461604578193364201364432.html

So with about 100,000 public schools

http://www.infoplease.com/askeds/number-us-public-schools.html

and about 130,000 firearm dealers

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_gun_dealers_are_there_in_US

police officers earn about $50,000 add in $15,000 for health care and other benefits

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_money_does_a_police_officer_earn

so that will be $50,000 for that renewal.

I think this is might be a good ideal, if the NRA will help us sell it to the dealers.

145 Comments

145 Comments


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[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

PLEASE understand that the 1994 "assault weapon ban"
DID NOT ban assault weapons
it banned their manufacture - a trivial step

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6714) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

This is a area I believe is entirely up to the people we really do have the power here, the amount of money the gun makers have is small compared to the funds available to people in Washington. Up until now a high NRA rating has meant an increased chance of re-election, in 2014 if we reverse that then we will know people want gun control, till then I do think it's up to the people. My preference is safer place to live with fewer guns, but as believer in democracy I accept that most people would prefer more guns, I don't vote for people with high NRA ratings when I am in the majority things will change not till then and I won't "demand" that the people I support give up their seats to lead this battle. It's the people's move here on this one.

[-] 2 points by WSmith (1980) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/bush-signed-2005-law-protecting-gun-m

Bush Signed 2005 Law Protecting Gun Makers From Being Sued

By Susie Madrak

Erwin Chemerinsky is the dean and distinguished professor of law at the University of California, Irvine School of Law. Back in September, he wrote about this for Law.com. I think we can take Congress seriously about claims to do something about the Sandy Hook shootings and gun violence when they also promise to do something about this:

In 1994, Congress passed and President Bill Clinton signed the Federal Assault Weapons Ban. The law prohibited individuals from possessing assault weapons, like the AR-15 rifle allegedly used by Holmes. It is a civilian semi-automatic version of the military M-16 and was a "semiautomatic assault weapon" under this law. But in 2004, this law expired and was not renewed. President George W. Bush opposed extension of the law, and the Republican-controlled Congress agreed. Since then, efforts in Congress to reinstate the law have been unsuccessful and have not even come for a vote.

At the very least, gun manufacturers should be held civilly liable for the injuries and deaths that foreseeably result from their products. Traditional principles of products liability should be applied to assault weapons. Beginning around 2000, there was a rise in the number of lawsuits against gun manufacturers. However, in 2005, Bush signed a law that shields gun makers from being sued.

Continued: http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/bush-signed-2005-law-protecting-gun-m

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6714) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

The Founding Fathers were very concerned about governmental interference in the civil courts they were well aware that the powerful would influence judges to the benefit of the powerful and then the people could be ran over by private interest no matter what restrictions were put on government. The Founding Fathers were well aware that freedom was threatened by the actions of people and that people often act in their own interest. The GOP has pretty much made America forget that fact. The civil courts (and jury system in general) were designed specifically to prevent that so that average people in the end had the power, under all jury trials, and the say in things and the government could not restrict that, the GOP is constantly trying to whittle away at that power whether it be malpractice or mandatory sentences, or in the case you site here.

[-] 0 points by WSmith (1980) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

A Nation of Laws, Not Men

The American governmental system was one founded at a time when dastardly monarchs ruled by quasi-divine fiat. Those who were to be the fateful originators of the Constitution feared, loathed and desperately wanted to proscribe such an authoritative form to the trash heap of history.

Thus, with this ultimate goal emblazoned upon their consciousness, the framers went about establishing a system of government based on a superior principle: all political power should never be derived from on singular source or entity or institution (or administration); but rather it must be dispersed amongst various sources that all have the capability and imperative to forever check the machinations of the others. This was due to a prudent understanding of human nature and a large body of history that would turn out to be cyclical many times over.

The Reagan administration’s foreign policy in the midst of a cold war, that at times seemed to be a ubiquitous straw man or perhaps a proverbial dead horse that was to bring about questions of a critic’s patriotism with every passing kick, was not unique to history. It has been used by many regimes in the past and brings with it the logic of a school yard bully. It in some ways stems from a superiority complex brought on by the good fortune of history, a byproduct of American success. And with this mindset comes a fanciful notion of being the exception; a strain of jingoism that sometimes begins to mirror a religion.

These traits of consequential egoism lead inevitably to the belief, by its adherents, that whatever action or course is taken in the name (or guise) of defending the state is right and just. Once this salient concept is cemented into the minds of those mighty state defenders, there will be no limit to their justifications.

Admiral John Poindexter and Lieutenant Colonel Oliver North were essentially the administration’s inglorious henchmen. They were the ones who were called on in times of moral uneasiness; at times when there is an ethical (or legal) line that needs to be crossed. Poindexter was the national security advisor to the president; North’s superior, and more prone to deceive. For his deception wasn’t exclusive to Congress, but rather breached the core of his enabler’s administration.

They were true believers of the stock already described; eager to get about the business of lying, stiff arming internal foes, sidestepping statutes, and running amuck over the Constitution under the greatest pretense of them all, defense.

Poindexter and North were to be the duo to spear-head President Reagan’s communist fighting policies in Nicaragua; and the supposed success of these policies had a name: the Contras. North, in particular, was the National Security Council (NSC) liaison to the Contras and his mission was to “keep them alive, body and soul.” As an aside (or legal landmine depending on your position), Congress was also fully aware of the Contras and eventually passed amendments to proscribe funding to them. The Boland Amendments (five total), in effect prohibited all funding from “any agency involved in intelligence activities.” North averted this obstacle by setting up “outside entities” in order to “raise non-U.S. government monies” in support of the prohibited group.

As for the president, he not only approved of this rogue strategy, but actually took part in some of the fundraising by meeting with various foreign and domestic donors. When Congress caught wind of this activity, two representatives wrote letters to the National Security Advisor (at this time McFarlane) asking for information; North subsequently submitted “false, erroneous, misleading, evasive, and wrong” documents to Congress.

During this period there was yet another, in this case contradictory, covert policy in which U.S. arms were being sold (via Israeli middleman) to the Iranians. The inherent contradiction lies in the fact that the administration had deemed Iran a terrorist state which, at the least, implied that the U.S. government would not be in the business of selling them weapons.

A complication existing within the contradiction aids in its explanation: an Iranian back terrorist group was holding American hostages in Lebanon. This problem needed a solution and the dynamic duo came to the rescue with an arms for hostages initiative. America sold weapons to Iran which would lead to the release of hostages. Besides running counter to the long held American policy of not making deals with hostage takers, the plan turned out to be highly unsuccessful.

The secret nexus between the two dubious policies went by the equally dubious name of “The Enterprise.” It consisted of a partnership between “Albert Hakim, an Iranian-born businessman, and ex-U.S. General Richard Secord” with North also being in the mix. Sometime in 1985, North made the decision to use “residual profits” from Iranian arms sales to fund the Contras. This critical decision was supported by Poindexter and was orchestrated by The Enterprise which received little, if any, oversight from either man. The Enterprise came to control and administer all funding (from the Iranian arms sale, foreign or domestic donors) in support of the Contras. The president was told neither about The Enterprise, nor the residual Iranian arms sale profits that were going to the Contras.

Many justifications have been given in the aftermath of the affair, but any search for morality among them would be in vain. The American system of government was structured precisely to avert such reckless disregard of moral judgment. In this case, in myriad ways, the U.S. government was hijacked by unelected military officials who were willing to cross any legal and ethical line in achieving their goals, including those statutorily draw by Congress. The claim is that they were doing it to protect the country, the American people; but the means used in many ways appear much more threatening than the communist straw man they erected.

Overzealous government officials working in the shadows of the Constitution arguably pose a greater existential threat than a poor third world country ever could, whether communist or not. Yet the “red scare” had the uncanny ability to create wild hysteria which the overzealous could all too easily channel into military adventurism. The inevitable consequences of a president essentially turning his administration into an additional branch of the military in this environment should have been predictable.

To use the term “groupthink” in explaining the affair would be too slight of a judgment. It is clear that the men involved not only had the same basic foreign policy views, but also seemed to detest constitutional government. Instead of understanding that their duty was to protect and defend the Constitution, they saw it as an obstacle to be maneuvered around. It was as if they had some delusional belief that, within their official capacity, they could breach the bounds of constitutional proscription, as fantastical dark knights fighting evil-doers off in the shadows.

And when confronted with the legal realities, their disdain for those ingrates that would dare to raise questions comes in the form of defensive condescension. After all, they are the trained professionals, the experts, whose every word is to be taken as sacrosanct by the lowly masses. At least that’s the way it used to be, back before the likes of Jefferson, Madison, and Hamilton had their say.

Wise men learned long ago that it better to be a nation of laws, not men.

While laws don’t often, if ever encompass all ethical ground, they at least in some measure act as a guiding light which aids in the discovery of the ethical path. For laws to have any effect they must be grounded in ethical considerations, morally justifiable with respect to there consequences, and no one must be above them. Moral sounding justifications become ubiquitous to someone who knows they’ve done wrong. Thus, authority figures can sound well-meaning, yet hide machinations behind their words. Also, good intentions should never shield suspicion. As Justice Louis Brandeis once put it, “Experience should teach us to be most on guard to protect liberty when government’s purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded rulers. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding.”

A step out of legality and into morality provides no safe-haven for Reagan’s henchmen. The consistent willingness to lie on full display for the entirety of the affair was not only wrong, but was an unfailing show of disrespect and condescension. As a parent may often lie to a child about things he or she is assumed not to understand; so too did Poindexter and North tell their endless lies to Congress and later to the country. The unapologetic willingness to trample upon the sovereignty of other nations is an international affront to morality and the mining of ports is far worse.

In the end, this journey into the “insidious wiles” by the “military-industrial complex” demonstrates the eternal wisdom of checks and balances.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6714) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Money has become the Monarch

The singular power is wealth, the kings ruled because they were wealthy in the end it was "ownership" that passed from parent to child, the cons would have us believes that it is the rule of law that is the tyrant. Laws that are commonly decided with each person having one voice no matter their position in life, that was the dream of the founding fathers, the GOP would have us follow unquestioning the rules of the wealthy, they say that any effort by the people to have a say in there lives is some kind of oppression. The GOP are fighting night and day to restore the Monarchy make no mistake about that, Monarchy is a system of government where your money makes money and your money comes to you at birth.

[-] 0 points by WSmith (1980) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Absolutely!

Cons are the blood and spiritual descendants of the Royalists or Loyalists who long for an authoritarian, totalitarian King. This whole democracy, of-for-by the People thing SCARES THE SHIT out of them. 1% Plutocracy is their NIRVANA!!!

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6714) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

If the people have power how can the wealthy be assured that their offspring three generations down won't have to work for a living? The only way they can be sure of the future is to own it and to pass it down through trust funds. Speaking of trust funds, you either got one or you don't if you vote GOP without one, you're a sap.

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

what percentage of congressmen took bribes from the nra to get this done?

[-] 1 points by WSmith (1980) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

You don't think they'd do that do you??

But is that not the ban you referred to above?

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

OK- I'll stop the silly - the last gun "ban" did not ban the guns - it banned making more of them. The resistance to making semi-automatic guns - often called assault weapons - illegal - will run into HUGE opposition. That's why I prefer fees & buybacks:


WRITE CONGRESS:

http://www.house.gov/representatives/find/
http://www.senate.gov/reference/common/faq/How_to_contact_senators.htm
VP Joe Biden, Gun Panel, 1600 Pennsylvania Av, Washington DC 20006


Dear ............................:

[ _ Y.O.U.R...I.N.T.R.O...H.E.R.E_ ]

While some people may want to confiscate guns, here is a much more feasable approach. It will not solve all gun problems, but it will reduce the number of guns and will reduce the number of dangerous people who have access to guns - and isn't THAT our real goal?

Please consider advocating these four steps below to help America with our gun disasters:

My proposal - for a NATIONAL gun law for all guns & owners:
My four points are SIMPLY based on seeing a logical parallel between cars & guns.

1
all gun owners must be licensed & tested with all guns they own and pass a written test.

if you own a motor cycle, a dump truck, and a car - you are tested in each
a written gun test - to guarantee the owner's understanding of gun laws
being forced to know the law - via the test - means the police know who you are -
and you may be less likely to commit a crime

2
every year, you must prove that you have gun liability insurance &
be background checked and prove that your gun is properly locked when not used.

insurance should be at least as high as car insurance [ I would like at least $1,000,000 ]
you must prove your car insurance
annual back ground check to verify your suitability to own guns
every gun must be locked in a gun case or have a trigger lock

3
as the owner of a gun, you are legally responsible for what is done with it.

you are required to report if your gun is missing within 48 hours
the owner will be much less likely to leave a gun accessible to a family member or thief

4
every gun must be registered and tested & a sample fired bullet stored by the police

knowing that your gun & its bullets are so easily traced will make you think before using it

peripherally-

Gun fees should be high enough to create a very substantial gun buy-back program

Penalties must be very high in money & jail time - especially after the first offense

No citizens ( except dealers & real collectors ) need more than a small number of guns

Gun fees should be higher for more guns.

The nra fighting against this - will be balanced by the insurance companies fighting for it

But the nra may be in favor of this when the gun companies understand that a gun owner
can get paid to turn in their old gun and will be able to buy a new gun -
with an INTEGRATED lock .

If we legalize drugs, we will clear out jail cells to fill with gun law breakers and
free up police "time" for real crime investigation

I am fundamentally NOT opposed to confiscation, but we WILL get higher compliance
and lower opposition if we use high fees & buyback. Take a position of reducing guns,
like assault weapons such as semi-automatic rifles -
rather than punishing a gun nut who spent $10,000 on an armory.


Some real 2011 / 2012 gun statistics:

Americans own almost half of all civilian owned guns in the world.
Per 100,000: America: 88,880 guns owned / 2.97 homicides
Per 100,000: England…: 6,200 guns owned / 0.07 homicides
Per 100,000: Austrailia: 15,000 guns owned / 0.14 homicides
Per 100,000: Canada…: 30,800 guns owned / 0.51 homicides
Per 100,000: France…..: 31,000 guns owned / 0.06 homicides
Per 100,000: Japan……..: 1,000 guns owned / 0.08 homicides
Per 100,000: Israel……..: 7,300 guns owned / 0.90 homicides


Clearly the number of guns adds to the risk of homicides.

More complex is the effect of gun laws and restrictions.

When Australia had a massacre in 1996 when 35 people were killed, gun laws were substantially strengthened and a major buy-back was instituted. There has not been an incident in Australia since then. Of course, they did not have the benefit of the nra.

For 2011, the average Murder Rate of Death Penalty States was 4.7, while the average Murder Rate of States without the Death Penalty was 3.1

For 2011, the murder rates were highest in red state regions:
Per 100,000: South 5.5 Midwest 4.5 West 4.2 Northeast 3.9

[-] 1 points by WSmith (1980) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

I say make it simple, ban it all. Fine violators $10K per.

Have gun clubs and out door hunting areas, but the guns stay there.

So this is wrong:

In 1994, Congress passed and President Bill Clinton signed the Federal Assault Weapons Ban. The law prohibited individuals from possessing assault weapons, like the AR-15 rifle allegedly used by Holmes. It is a civilian semi-automatic version of the military M-16 and was a "semiautomatic assault weapon" under this law. But in 2004, this law expired and was not renewed. President George W. Bush opposed extension of the law, and the Republican-controlled Congress agreed. Since then, efforts in Congress to reinstate the law have been unsuccessful and have not even come for a vote.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6714) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

I looked into overall murder rates for England and the US turns out that in England it is 1.57 and the US 5.22 (in the stats I had) if you subtracted the gun murders from the overall murder rate they were almost the same about 1.5 (the stats I had showed a 3.7 gun murder rate that year) showing that almost ALL gun murders are extra murders that would otherwise most likely not happen at all.

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

the nra does not "bribe"
they pay their employees

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6714) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

I don't think guns are really very much money really, I mean to you and me it may seem like a lot but compared to oh say oil, not so much, so I think the GOP support guns because they want us afraid it lets them do all kinds of things and raise money for all kinds of stuff, do you think we would put up with the size of our prison system if we didn't have all these guns everywhere? I know money is involved I just think there are other forces that explain their behavior better.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/this-could-be-the-real-reason-the-gop-slings-crap-/

[-] 3 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

From what I understand, you are half right - it is NOT the money that flows from the nra to congress.
It is the nra lemmings
wayne says "Obama is going to take your guns with new gun laws" thousands of nra lemmings will call their congressman and threaten to not vote for them

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6714) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Yeah that is the more traditional, and I hope more accurate way to look at it, it's just sometimes you see so many indicators you can start to question Mankind's sanity.

[-] 0 points by WSmith (1980) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

The assault weapon ban! Is that the same one you were referring to?

[-] 1 points by cJessgo (729) from Port Jervis, PA 1 year ago

Sounds to me like he wants to squeeze out the little guy.Maybe they want to drive there trade under ground.We could have another social war.How does the war on guns sound.I don;t know can Wal-Mart afford 50K?

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6714) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Well maybe we don't really need 138,000 fire arm dealers after all we don't have nearly that many food stores, and guns last a lot longer, they often outlive their owners.

[-] 1 points by cJessgo (729) from Port Jervis, PA 1 year ago

I guess that is what I am told is the free market.If you belive in that sort of oxymoronic thing.Wal=Mart calls your dealers associates.I wonder how many of those people walk around with stigma of being know as a dealer.We could call just about eveyone a dealer now.Guy who sells me my Pizza is a Pizza dealer.Man who fixes my car is a maintance dealer etc.Wonderful world when everyone is stigmatised.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6714) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

odd you would go there would you prefer I say fire arm sellers?

[-] 1 points by cJessgo (729) from Port Jervis, PA 1 year ago

Arms merchant seems politicaly correct.Covers the whole ball of wax I would think.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6714) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

in this case I am talking about small arms merchants, did you see where the NRA was trying to stop a treaty on small arms sales?

[-] 1 points by cJessgo (729) from Port Jervis, PA 1 year ago

No,never been a fan of NRA.Support lots of people I don't care for.They seem like an ALEC front group for corporate weapon manufactures.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Free, Voluntary, Socialized Mental Disease Testing and Evaluation & Treatment. Make it affordable to get mental illness treatment... even treatment for drug & alcohol.

Look at Work Place Shootings. Is there any doubt that the stresses on people are all four 1) Social 2) Economic 3) Mental illness 4) Drugs & Alcohol.

The problem is Mental Health Testing can take up to like a year. It is very expensive. Many people will not seek treatment, evaluations, advice, or even pay for drugs for a mental illness. This is way beyond any stigma from having a mental illness. There are many factors in why people don't take care of themselves or get advice or go find medical evaluations.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6714) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Perhaps more money for mental health care could be raised through the sale of guns, ie transfer fees, dealer fees ect., I am sure the conservatives would love to see government being paid for though fees not taxes, that's what they are always pushing for.

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

"mental health" is an nra diversion
the Red Lake killer had "mental health care"
the guy who just shot the firemen got "mental health care" in prison.
BUT
if we waste 2-5 years trying to understand this, the gun companies will be able to sell millions of more guns

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6714) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Here's what I think the plan may be, the whole mental health angle just plays into the long game.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/this-could-be-the-real-reason-the-gop-slings-crap-/

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Good Point. Certainly should be on the Table. And I still think Mental Health needs funding for free programs & Evalutation.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6714) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

I've seen people who were on the edge of being put out on their own because of cuts, I know first hand what a disgrace it is.

But I also think there may be an even darker reason for their position.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/this-could-be-the-real-reason-the-gop-slings-crap-/

[Removed]

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Excellent points. I would like to spend more time on the credibility, humanity, and plain old common sense missing from the US Health Care system. I'm probably not the best to report on facts.

But we know pain management in the USA is 90% pills or a port implanted in a patient to provide drugs. (maybe I'm out of date)

Cancer research is a total failure in the sense of the huge money put into it. It has been a very stubborn field of medicine. Terrible programs to manage in other words. Weirdly I see where a doctor with form a business to research bio-medicine or maybe DNA Genetic Medicine. He takes a salary of $500K and tries to sell stock as an OTC. If he fails, well he has gotten his salary off the top.

Advertising, Salesmen push new drugs on doctors to try out on patients. Private firms test the new drugs instead of univerity peer reviews. Kind of like paying a ratings agency to rate your corporations and your stocks and bonds.

In Germany they do a consultation with the Patient which can take quiet a while. Because the patient is a system ... I guess. Body,Mind, Spirit... wholistic medicine. I think Japan does a good job too. I can go to Ecuador and get a great, complete evaluation. here I'm sort of stuck with someone that doesn't specialize and won't speculate on skin problems, or speciality areas... like diet I suppose.

Yes, workplace violence. Why is no one talking about that.

[-] 1 points by Gillian (1842) 1 year ago

Hi M, I cancelled my health insurance several years ago because it would only cover allopathic medicine which was not good for my health. The illness care system in this country does not work for anyone who wants to be healthy and happy. I pay about 250.00 a year out of pocket for my current doctor whose practice focuses on Holistic and Preventive Medicine. He is board certified and spends on average about 2 hours per visit with me.

I don't know why so many believe we need more mental healthcare when it too is just a mental-illness care system. Most all shooters in this country were under some mental/drug care.
Psychological screening has been done on every single US citizen anytime they visit their GP or other doctor ( Patriot Act) . The questions are very vague and the diagnosis is based mostly on subjective interpretation. Doctors will ask vague questions like ' how's work going' and if you mention key words like ' stress, anxiety, tired' they will note that , may try to sell you a psychotropic drug and provide that info to insurance companies that then flag the patient as high risk and raise insurance premiums. The results are also provided to current and potential employers which may lead to discrimination and or termination. The system is designed to sell drugs, not help patients. Germany has it's pluses and minuses in terms of healthcare but it's part of the EU participation in Codex which is attempting to establish a global standard for nutrition and supplements, food additives, GMOs and pesticides. Of course, this globalization is also skewed toward selling more drugs and using more agri-chemicals.

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Thanks for the extra info. There is so much going on. I sort of came across Codex before, but thought they were going to help with GMOs in Europe. Of course plants and herbs should not be classified as drugs and this always seemed like corruption to me. Don't knwo many details of that stuff.

I'm pretty sure I think Cancer treatment is mostly poison. Very scary. Outside of our country there are other herbs, drugs, and nutritional programs that are illegal here. part of what I like about living in another country is the organics that are so affordable. I'm trying to eat some thing every day that has micro nutrients, but think I still fail some days. Lately have some tablets of Kale & Alfalfa. Ran out of Spirolena that I started taking... I think it could have been 10 years old.

Well, yes, the reporting on Medical records. In the 90s I heard about Aids patients losing their privacy and Insurance. Today, we have the same system on steroids. But maybe you helped me understand something weird that I noticed myself about my doctor.

I completely agree. Doctors are pill pushers and really are enablers of the drug pushers 'Big Pharma'. You are not a man, you are a number ...and inside the doctors office too.

I got into some of the alternative medicine and tooks some training. I feel I was under too much pressure. maybe people at work wanted me to quit my job. Anyway, I kind of fell apart before I conducted many treatments as give-aways. Almost might say I seemed to lack a certain maturity in the 90s. In some group healing work I found some other teachers and healers considered my technique to be different from theirs. My teacher was a little different background and had learned some techniques from India and Tibetian traditions.

[-] 1 points by Gillian (1842) 1 year ago

I trained in Natural Health as well and whether I ever use it professionally or not, I'm so glad that I did.

Chemo is another quick fix that essentially kills someone and then they slowly recover IF they ever do. Most cancers rebound within a few years since they had plenty of time to grow in an environment that had no defense during that time. Doctors don't help patients rebuild their immune systems because using foods and herbs to do that would be illegal. Codex is dangerous and will prove to be yet another force that has intentions of keeping us sick. Will they limit our intake of oranges? They are already attempting to limit our intake of Vitamin C.

Eastern medicine is so much more effective because they address the whole mind/body/spirit aspect of animals. I've used acupuncture to help me with a variety of things from being able to express deeply ingrained sadness and anger to healing disease. It works. Oregon and Washington state seem to be the two most progressive states to live in if you're a natural health guru. I'm not so sure that even California ranks up there anymore.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

It really sounds like a battle ground. maybe there is a good pharase for it... Corporate battleground in health. I take it Codex is a multi-country initiative or just an EU inititive to allow technocrats to make all the decisions. And technocrats are for sale like the IMF, WTO, WB.

I tried a tack in my ear for a month people at work thought I had a piercing. after about 30 days just when I though it wasn't going to work, my shoulder tendon felt fine, all healed. These days we have PTSD in our soldiers. I guess some acupuncture is probably going on now for them. Any word in the grape vine on success.?

yeah, I wonder about East Coast. They have such old Patriarch Families. Seems like they had lots of laws and stress.

[-] 1 points by Gillian (1842) 1 year ago

I believe acupuncture could prove to be quite beneficial for ptsd. I hadn't really thought about it in such terms but yeah, it definitely relieved my stress and grief. One visit I cried so much that there was a puddle of tears under my table. Seriously. I felt like a different person after that.

Not sure how the tack could prove to benefit shoulders or relieve stress but I'm not a chakra expert. Sounds interesting though.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

You know I was thinking yesterday about how authorities and Law enforcement treat people that come from a commune or live on a commune. I suppose a lot of people would be completely thrown by meeting someone that didn't have a car for instance. Prehaps my imagination was working out how hard life might have been for you ... if you were considered a fringe dweller (Stuart Wilde term).

Well sorry to hear of the stress. I probably could have used some kind of therapy instead of drinking alcohol. Well I did try Reiki, but didn't seem to have lasting effects. seemed like it could help with Head Aches though if you hold your hands on your head. Ran into people doing Cranial Sacral and Colonics. Not sure if I ever did Cranial Sacral or not. Got some massages. used to like giving massages. Was thinking of training in massage, but was going to be scared to start a practice....

[-] 1 points by Gillian (1842) 1 year ago

I don't think people who live on communes get treated any different than anyone else. Lots of folks don't have cars..especially in big cities. We had trucks and cars at our commune and we drove to town just like anyone else. No one looked any different..the women wore aprons and bonnets and the men wore suits. hahahhaha

Did you quit drinking?

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Oh you were a menonite or amish. We have some of those here. I actually found a town like 10-15 miles away where I could get Amish produce off the highway. Not sure if they have a green house, they are probably snowed upon and harvest all gone. Hm... maybe the Amish were the first organic farmers.

Hm... well I thought i was going to quit drinking when I retired. Then I went through a lot of thoughts, feelings, judgements, regrets, prefection, and even suppressed anger. So ... no I didn't quit drinking yet. I guess I was expected to be sort of perfect and to continue to strive in my organization, while failing and being shown that I could never reach the perfection of the people higher. I call that Perfectionism. And it is true. There is 2-3 levels where I could never be equal to those above me.

[-] 1 points by Gillian (1842) 1 year ago

NO I wasn't Amish. Not that it matters really. I wanted to be Quaker for many years but my parents would not send me to the Quaker School. Anyway, I was being facetious and mocking sexism.

It sounds like your wonderful job used you up and that you allowed it to use you up because you were blinded by success and money???? It's easy to live by ego until there is no food for the ego. If you measure success and perfection by some heirarchy that others have created for their establishment then you'll never measure up. I had a girlfriend who never wanted to advance in her job. For years I thought she was a lazy loser but then one day realized that chose the job that provided the most happiness. It was the job that allowed her the freedom to be a mother, a wife and to travel with her family. She didn't want tons of stress and the pressure of working 60 hours a week. She didn't need to be famous or wealthy or anything else in order to feel fulfilled. She gave her job the best she had every day and she remained in the same position for 20 years. Her father was a doctor who died in his 60's and I think it really made her realize that he had spent more of his life working than being a father to her.
Regret is a big waste of time since we are always in a process of learning. The problem arises when we make no effort to redeem ourselves by rectifying our mistakes. No one wants to be know as 're-Peter'...hahahha do they?

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Well, no I never liked the job. I felt I was on my own and must make a go of it. The illusion is that maybe you could learn everything ... or learn enough that you could leverage it to study and be great after having many different positions. The way I explained it doesn't really help you to see exactly how I was or social mistakes I made. People were constantly listening to you and looking you over. Maybe this is just a normal competive environment. Not sure. Oh, but then you are always sort of acting tough and for me not responding to the pushy people ... then coming back the next day. But some people fight it and yell back, push back. Regret... yes. Maybe I'm dealing with regret a little now. It wasn't really an issue ever before in my life. But drinking sort of makes you forget. So I probably stuffed feelings for 20 years.

[-] 1 points by Gillian (1842) 1 year ago

Never liked your job. How awful!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You need to take a writing class or painting or some other type of creative outlet where you can connect your mind with your spirit. Don't worry about being perfect or even being talented. Just enjoy the experience.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Yeah, you come in with experience and college, and people act like you are nothing. That is office work. Plus there are some people networking and there are people with experience you can never get. The old guard was still working and plent of years left to work.

We are both probably talented. I had a couple of things published for free on a website. They came out pretty good. But you are right. There are all those things I learned about building spirit in the 90s. All those things I didn't really adopt. I'm getting a better look at myself. Things will get better. Thanks...G.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

I took a reflexology class one day for just the foot massage. Did you ever try Rolfing. I think it was sort of about mapping the inside of the nose to produce emotions and emote and feel deep events.

No, Wiki says I am not even close.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolfing

[-] 1 points by Gillian (1842) 1 year ago

Rolfing is painful! I'm going to go get rolfed in a couple of weeks by a friend. It's good for the immune system but it's a very deep massage that can be painful.

I have a reflexology sock to help someone to massage my feet but I don't have anyone to do it and if I try to do it on myself, I get a stiff neck

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

The nurse from Switzerland that I train under for the day had a pretty comprehensive technique. I can't imagine a sock map... lol Yeah, you can't do Reiki on your neck either. Your shoulders get all bunched up and you start cramping. I used to have head aches alot, and neck problems and back aches. Maybe I started handling things better or I got away from the Pain in the neck co-workers. lol It was good to move away from that place...

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26862) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Acupuncture was a successful treatment for some muscle pain - ( not a cure - but never the less a big help ) opening nerve center communication channels to help getting muscles to unclench. The body is bio-mechanical and the central nervous system carries the communications for proper functioning.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26862) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Down with harmful prescription drugs - Up with nutritional education - natural plants/foods that support a healthy functioning body.

Example: A daily supplement of cinnamon = healthy blood sugar regulation.

[-] 2 points by Gillian (1842) 1 year ago

Yes, that's exactly how I live and my doctor teaches me what to eat, how to prepare it the best way and how to avoid medications. He will prescribe them if absolutely necessary but it's rare and he won't accept new patients that come to him looking for prescriptions. He tells them to go to other facilities. He's also a great source of wisdom about political medicine. Are you familiar with Dr. Joseph Mercola? Healthy body = Happy mind

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26862) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

No not familiar with that individual. But due to fortunate circumstances I was raised with a respect for what nature/natural can do "FOR" me as well as an understanding that UN-natural synthetic compounds can be harmful. I have fibromyalgia - and the most relief support that I have found in treating it ( unfortunately not curing - YET ) - has come from natural nutritional supplements that support the bodies functions - like digestion and kidney and liver function as well as cleansing the system of toxins in support of the kidneys and liver - as well as skin detoxification process = sweating ( skin largest organ of the body ).

[-] 1 points by Gillian (1842) 1 year ago

Have you tried Nopal Juice? I've heard good really good things about it. Check out Dr. Mercola's site. He's got a lot of info on there about Fibro. He's the only truly honest doctor out there that I trust other than my own. The FDA went after him, tried to sue him for exposing their corruption but guess what? He didn't flinch and he counter-sued and won! Fibro seems common in folks who had chronic stress at some point that negatively affected the immune system. I wish you could find a good doc.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26862) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

The growth of medical science in understanding the body it's functions and relationship to natural substances is growing faster now then at any other time in our ( USA ) history. There is a lot of knowledge that can be accessed now over the internet and there are more students in medical school that are being taught more about natural/nutritional health support. This ongoing growth is due to people finding out about natural treatments on their own and having their success reported. Now the medical industry wants to get involved so that they don't lose potential customers/money.

[-] 1 points by Gillian (1842) 1 year ago

That's very true about how the drug companies want to take over the natural health industry. Here's the problem- drug companies can only manufacture synthetic versions of natural occurring compounds and synthetic vitamins, minerals and plant compounds are not as effective and in fact, can prove to be toxic. Whole food nutrients are the only way to go but they would need to regulate foods as medicines which would truly be genocide for us. People take those synthetic ' one a day' vitamins believing they are good for them and in reality, they are poisoning their bodies. That's why when the FDA claims that a vitamin is dangerous, they are only looking at toxic levels of a synthetic version, not the whole food /naturally occurring compound. Remember the Vitamin E scare? That study was so flawed. Dietitians make horrible recommendations to patients all the time because their industry is funded by drug companies and FDA which is funded by drug companies and so on.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Oh oh, I take Nature Made one a day. Hey did you ever hear of Dr Joel Wallach, Vet, did a program called Dead Doctors don't lie. (autopsy data) It was about natural minerals found in water, or prehistorical water, he sold a mineral solution with some flavor to it as a suppliment. But he wa pretty convincing that Doctors are bad at health. He said farmers put 3 minerals back into the soil. Baby formula might have as much as 12 or 18 minerals, but animal feed has like 31 minerals (might have those numbers wrong) but anyway... Vets know that animals need minerals and we treat animals & live stock better than people & Babies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joel_D._Wallach

[-] 1 points by Gillian (1842) 1 year ago

Not all Nature Made are whole food vitamins so make sure they are whole food-- especially since your liver has already been taxed from alcohol. You don't need anymore synthetic toxins. I was using Innate Response but they became too expensive for me to buy right now. Then I was using New Chapter and most recently, I purchased some Nature Made Alive...I just started them. They were my Christmas present to myself. Oh, I meant to tell you...my dogs gave me a few books by Maurice Maeterlinck... ;D The one I'm reading now is called ' The Life of the Bee'. It's not a technical book about bees. It's a philosophical book.
I don't think we treat our animals any better than we treat our children. In other words, I think we lack reverence for life and mostly quality of life.
My neighbors left their two dogs alone at their house while they went on holiday. I was up most of the night listening to the dog bark. Would they leave their children like that too? They are so inconsiderate, so irresponsible and cruel. I could never leave my dogs alone- especially at Christmas. How else would I get my gifts? hahahah

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Listen to all that love in your voice. How lucky for your companion to have such a loving parent/partner...? Yep, you next move definitely hinges around how your dogs will do.

In September 1874 he was sent to the Jesuit College of Sainte-Barbe, only religious subjects were permitted. His experiences at this school influenced his distaste for the Catholic Church and organized religion.[5] Poems, short stories, and Law school.....

My kelp is Natures Plus Tablets. I think i recognize the brands you are naming. Looks like my daily multi is synthetic. Was going to say many people are talking about micro nutrients. I sort of feel like we don't know about micro nutrients and haven't done studies on them. But figure they might be more valueable than vitamins and minerals for all we know. Anyway that is why I have the Kelp and Alfalfa. I guess you would call them whole foods.

Well we have to judge people in our lives to select the right ones. But we can of have to set aside judgments of grand kids and how they raise their kids, and how they live their lives (I don't have kids). And I guess neibors are in that category. Sort of like 12 Step program, serentity pray.

Well I'm glad you had some gifts and had someone to spend the holiday with. You really worked hard. I don't know how you could find the counter space to make 30 loaves of bread. I'm thinking that took like 8 hours of work. Good job, G.

[-] 1 points by Gillian (1842) 1 year ago

Thanks M for the compliment but baking those loaves of gingerbread was no difficult task really. It was time consuming since my oven only holds three loaves at a time. The eggs were more difficult because I had to peel them under cold water and my hands were so frozen and painful.

From now on, buy the Nature's Made Alive. Did you know that only 20 percent of syn. vitamins are even available to us? So you're throwing away 80 cents on the dollar for your current vitamins.

My neighborhood was very lovely until the older folks left and after that Bush handout, the scum moved in. I wish they would all foreclose and move. Of all the people who lost their homes..why not the scum in my neighborhood?
I don't have kids either, thank goodness. Although, it would have been nice to have a few while I had my business. Free employees, right? hahaha

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Thanks. I think I have seen that one, Alive. Yes, I knew that a lot of the vitamins are wasted. Old way was to buy a multi as a cheap start. Hm... Nemesis Neibors. They are carefree, spontaneous, loud, like attension, like living large, ... sounds like they are opposites of you. They must be spiritual test. Only the test happens at night when you are trying to sleep. And you being such a gentle lover of dogs, they are testing your patience.

I'm in a weird mood don't know where that was going. Well kids would be a struggle, but we love them sometimes and hopefully they don't completely not love us. And hopefully we don't try to live through them and their future careers. Parenting is a lot of politics.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26862) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

All natural is the way to go. Synthetic vitamins have a tendency to not be digestible. Good site for vitamins and nutritional supplements =

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/

[-] 1 points by Gillian (1842) 1 year ago

I know what your talking about. I bought some of those minerals in liquid form thinking it was for plants but I read the label and it was for drinking! So, my plants and I both got a good dose of minerals. Is it fulvic acid or something like that? I can't remember which brand I bought as I found it at my local hardware store of all places. No wonder I thought it was for plants ;D

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Supposed to keep your mother from getting alzheimers. Anyway also help with nerological degeneration, and organ failure. Maybe that was a big one for Dr Wallach. Doctors die of natural causes like many other people, but when you look at the data ... you see heart disease, stroke from smoking and poor diet... then you see organ failure from ... lack of minerals (according to him).

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26862) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Vitamin E a natural blood thinner among other things. Yes I remember the reports - vitamin C as well. No they did not address the issue of a full natural "WHOLE" supplement regimen as being healthy and containing all of the ingredients that work together in support. Again leaving out the issue of proper balance as well as naturally concurring source.

[-] 2 points by Gillian (1842) 1 year ago

Heck, it wasn't until that last ten years or so that doctors and researchers would even admit that nutrition from food played a role in overall health. Why did they believe the food pyramid existed? Would we put koolaid in our gas tanks and expect our cars to run? Strange how humans can compartmentalize information.
One of the reasons that our government and industry don't want to address the health benefits of healthy foods is because most of the foods that we purchase from a grocery are not really all that healthy. Food and produce labels don't account for nutrient degradation due to shelf life, shipping, temperatures, cooking, etc.. They don't want local farmers to be more successful than big Ag. The information we receive via news is so skewed and understated. Recently, they claimed that organic foods were no healthier for you. However, commonsense would tell us that consuming a fresh apple without pesticides on it would certainly be healthier than consuming one with them? Which reminds me that there have been many threats to small farmers and home gardens. Monsanto suing farmers and home owners for passively stealing their seed - seed that blew into their yard or farm.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26862) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Frankenfoods and fruits and vegetables containing toxins from the synthetic fertilizers and pesticides - food growing on continually vitamin and mineral depleted fields. Meat that is tainted with steroids and hormones and other toxins introduced to their diet. It all adds up to the growing illness in society/life/environment.

[-] 1 points by Gillian (1842) 1 year ago

It's awful isn't it? It's cold now and my garden is empty except for a few greens. It's a very uneasy feeling to look out and know that my livelihood' is on hold for a few months.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26862) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

You have a commercial garden?

[-] 1 points by Gillian (1842) 1 year ago

Excellent post Zen. So glad to know that you're aware of what is SO wrong with our medical industry. I can't even call it healthcare anymore because it's not about supoorting good health practices. it's a system designed to create a constant flow of sick patients through the doors. Even worse is that all the different schools in medicine are scratching each other's backs in order to get a big piece of the pie too. Psychology needs to shift it's focus to one of behavioral modification without the use of drugs. Drugs should only be implicated in cases like true manic-depressive ( not drug induced), schizophrenia and a few others. Those are diseases not generalized disorders. I receive updates from a medical review journal and one of the recent articles and warnings to doctors was about how they now believe that medications lead to bipolar disorder symptoms and they refer to it as drug-polar disorder.

People believe that diet foods and drinks that contain aspartame will help them to lose weight. Aside from being untrue and actually leading to weight-gain and neuro-receptor dysfunction in the brain, does anyone ever consider that if one is drinking so much soda that they need diet that maybe they are drinking too much to begin with?
It's sort of like people who get drunk and then ask for the anti-hangover pill. We have to got to quit relying on quick fixes for everything. Certainly, most know that these don't work and lead to further symptoms and side effects and yet they keep going back.

[-] 1 points by ericweiss (575) 1 year ago

NRA is only interested in selling guns to lemmings

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6714) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

ah come on they'll sell guns to anybody, won't they? then sell you guns to protect yourself from them, it's the good old circular firing squad

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6714) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

I just heard the NRA's response to the shipyard shootings, a seven second response time? How much would the costs? Who pays those taxes? Can we add that to the license fees too?

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Wow...

Thanks for making the site look like a bunch of teenagers or out of touch elders run it for the umpteenth time.....unless this was a joke?

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6714) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

How many ids have you had to make hc?

How do you propose we pay for the cops he wants in schools?

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

I would pay for the cops by selling wayne - little pieces at a time

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6714) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

OK so that covers the first fifty cents...

[-] -1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Well, the Fed is giving Wall St 85 billion a month. That would pay for a cop at every school for over 10 years.

How about we start there? You know, the cause of like every other problem with money we have? Or is the Fed off limits with you?

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6714) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

So the fed is selling Bushmasters now?

Always trying to protect your right wing buddies no body who dies I see.

Oh that's right you figure if it's the fed's fault it must be Obama's fault and your all about fighting for your partisan cause, hating Obama.

[-] -1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

You are the one that went to Obama. Clearly the Fed is running both parties, and the people arent going to take notice, as you just demonstrated.

The Fed is giving Wall St 85Billion a month. For free. Think that money might be used for better purposes?

Or would you like to take the focus off the banks and back onto party politics as usual?

You blue dogs are all the same.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6714) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

I'm a yellow dog, go back to school hc you've lost your mind.

Do you think the people on this site don't know the game you're playing?

"oh shit people woke up, let's bore the shit out of them with crap that's got nothing to do with what their talking about, that should keep them from doing anything."

and so you peddle your "fed" crap hoping your buddies on the right can ride this one out.

[-] -1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Peddle my Fed Crap?!!

Go to OccPhoenix and say that.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6714) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

So gun control and the fed please walk me down the road just how are they connected?

[-] -1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

The actions needed cost money. 85 billion a month is going to wall st.

Its 7.6 billion a year to put a full time police officer at every school full time for a year.

One month of injections to Wall St would pay for a cop at every school for the next 10 years.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6714) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

anything not to talk about gun control eh? if cutting the fed is a good ideal it's a good ideal, it's got nothing to do with guns, what I'm talking about here would reduce the number of gun deaths, seems you have no interest in doing that

[-] -1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

The post was speaking of paying for all this extra security. We could pay for all of it for ten years with one month of the money they are robbing.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6714) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

So it is your position we should pull money from health care and education rather than raise it through firearm dealer license fees?

After all if we took it from the fed we could spend it on health care and education, if we raised the money for the guards from the people selling the guns that make the guards necessary then we won’t have to take it from some where else.

[-] -2 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Taking it from the Fed would require that they arent stealing it already.

Its out in plain sight for everyone to see. But the MSM wont cover it so no one is caring.

They are printing 85 billion a month of the peoples currency and giving it to the big banks. Taking and putting it into your stuff, education and healthcare should be a no brainer.

That amount of money could cover all the stuff you listed along with healthcare for the entire nation. Its a trillion a year.

There really isnt any reason to worry about economic matters if the people dont run their own money, and the ones that do are blatantly ripping them off.

It would be like you trying to run a bakery, desperately try to succeed, but the only way for you to get the ingredients is through me, and I give you the worst ones on the market, and not nearly enough. Its a losing proposition regardless of what you do. You will not be able to compete.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6714) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

does the word unresponsive mean anything to you? why are you so resistant to the ideal of gun buyers bearing the costs of that choice.

you want to divert attention to a completely unrelated topic because your con Masters have no answer for the gun issue

[-] -1 points by Coyote88 (-24) 1 year ago

The title of this thread is a lie. Why?

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6714) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

What else could he have meant when he said he wanted more guards in school?

I know in AZ they are considering volunteers but I did not think that was what LaPierre was suggesting.

[-] -1 points by freehorseman (267) from Miles City, Mt 1 year ago

I would gladly give you all my freedom for just a little more security.Thats all we want .And I know the people that are elected will look out for our best intrest just as they always have.We trusted them with NAFTA.Patriot Act.etc.The list is endless.Now be obediant citezens and give up just a few more rights.Then we all can be safe and secure.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6714) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Read your comment down below seems you're back to turning that gun against the government, I suppose you've had a relapse.

[-] 0 points by freehorseman (267) from Miles City, Mt 1 year ago

I think you have a tendency to bend statements to fit your ideas. I also belive you spend a great deal of time doing so.Are you being paid by the foes of a constitutional goverment.Or perhaps this is just all your life.The above statement points out how the general public will gladly give up all there rights for the illusion of security.Tyrants such as yourself know this and play on there fears.So keep looking at what is said a keep thinking on how to twist.Nowhere does it say turning anthing on anyone.I would say that you sir are not only a paid hack but also a liar.Your word "seems"coresponds to that fact.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6714) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

oh now you're getting all serious where's that feisty fellow talking about the well armed 1%? did the idiocy of your statements come back around and bite your ass?

I didn't bend shit, you just didn't expect to run into anyone who could read.

[-] -1 points by freehorseman (267) from Miles City, Mt 1 year ago

No I expect that you will distort and say anything that helps your partisan agenda.And yes you did bend .You did fabricate and you are a paid hack.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6714) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

I didn't "fabricate" anything you are the one saying we need guns to protect us from the 1% when I point out that turning your gun against the government is stupid, you change the subject, that's the problem with all you 2nd amendment types you are chicken shit to say what you mean.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6714) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Making sure there are lots of guns, makes sure there is lots of fear, it makes locking people up so much easier...a fearful people is a trusting people, and what causes more fear than killing their kids?

http://occupywallst.org/forum/this-could-be-the-real-reason-the-gop-slings-crap-/

[-] 1 points by freehorseman (267) from Miles City, Mt 1 year ago

Nothing like a well armed one percent and a helpless 99 percent.Nothing to see here.Please move along and keep shoping.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6714) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

really? you gonna use that gun against the government?

then you're an idiot.

[-] 1 points by freehorseman (267) from Miles City, Mt 1 year ago

Crazy woman pushed a poor soul into oncoming train in Queens the other day.Perhaps each commuter needs his own personal officer of the law.Remeber we only want to be safe, all freedom is expendable.Nothing to see here please move along and keep shoping.All we are saying is what you seek is people control.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6714) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

so you figure that woman was an agent of the 1%?

why does the thought of you running around well armed suddenly sound even less like a good ideal....

[-] 1 points by freehorseman (267) from Miles City, Mt 1 year ago

Speaking for myself.I do not run around armed at all.I also do not live in fear of other people.Nor do I advocate big brother Passing useless laws desinged only to take the liberty of my fellow countrymen.Perhaps if people such as yourself would put your efforts in the direction of seeing that our mental health patients are advocated for.I would then think you would be on the right track.As far as firearms go you are not solving anything just making noise.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6714) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Still somebody who thinks the 1% are sending crazy women to push us into trains, seems there's a dissociation with reality going on there.

Are for the repeal of speeding laws and laws against crack as well?

States have cut back a lot on mental health care do support raising the fees on firearm dealers to pay for additional treatment? how about additional prison cells?

[-] 1 points by freehorseman (267) from Miles City, Mt 1 year ago

I have no clue as to where you think that the state is responsible for the tragic death in Queens.Unless it is of course that we have ignored the mental health issues in this country.Be that as it may you will not legislate irrational behavior no matter how much noise you make concerning gun control.Why would anyone want to repeal speeding laws is beyond me.Unless you are trying to make some abstack point that is not relevant.As for the prison cells you are the one pushing for more laws to imprison more people that do not belong there.Yes some people do belong locked away from society.Most do not and should not .

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6714) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

I never said or implied that I did, but you on the other hand said you thought so quite clearly and I find that to be indicative of possible issues.

Why else would you go from speaking of a well armed 1% and defenseless 99% to a crazy woman in a subway, you made the association.

Opportunity is a trap for fools.

[-] 1 points by freehorseman (267) from Miles City, Mt 1 year ago

The point is that you can not legislate unbalanced (sick) people.You can not legislate people to exercise good judgement.Of course you knew what the point was in your reply ,but like all good liberals/conservatives decided to evade.Let us just legislate our societys problems away.The problem with that that mentality is that history has for the most part proved that wrong. One the other side of that conterfit coin are the people who think that teachers must be deputies.Again a conservative/liberal bianary system that does nothing but make noise and solve nothing. I wish you a productive and happy New Year.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6714) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

but you can stop fire arm dealers from flooding your streets with small arms...if you put the actual costs of such a policy onto the purchase of such weapons

[-] -1 points by freehorseman (267) from Miles City, Mt 1 year ago

Our drug laws do nothing to stem the tide of people taking harmful substances.Your people control laws will not solve the problem of violence,accidents.but will hinder law abiding ,responsible Americans.The aproach should be educate.Eradicate only fuels more crimanal activity.Does not prevent deaths.It also does not change cultural norms.Our movies,music and history glorify the use of weapons against each other.Change that and you may get acceptance.Your laws will do nothing.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6714) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

1 points by freehorseman (268) from Miles City, Mt 1 week ago Nothing like a well armed one percent and a helpless 99 percent.Nothing to see here.Please move along and keep shoping. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle reply permalink

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (9388) from Phoenix, AZ 1 week ago really? you gonna use that gun against the government? then you're an idiot. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle reply edit delete permalink

[-] 1 points by freehorseman (268) from Miles City, Mt 1 week ago Crazy woman pushed a poor soul into oncoming train in Queens the other day.Perhaps each commuter needs his own personal officer of the law.Remeber we only want to be safe, all freedom is expendable.Nothing to see here please move along and keep shoping.All we are saying is what you seek is people control.

since you seem to have memory problems as well...

[-] -1 points by freehorseman (267) from Miles City, Mt 1 year ago

That is very nice and how do you conclude that I said she was sent by the one percent?If you read the remark you can see the point was that you will have yo have an officer for each mental case etc. You are the one that stated a gun was going to be used. If you read my comments you can see how you have distorted them to push your anti second amendment agenda. What part of "The peoples right shall not be infringed" do you not understand?What other parts of the us constitution will you distort to fit your needs?Funny why you would pick a site that has had many of our rights trampled upon to express your anti constitutional view points.The Constitution is our permit to own firearms.It is also our permit to assemble.So sorry that demorcracy is a bit messy. So you are in favor of a well armed one percent but a disarmed ninty nine percent.Or perhaps you are big brother just looking out for us? Democracy is a very messy affair.Tyrants always promise a sanitised society.No thanks I think I will keep the messy one.Thanks for your ill concieved concern.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6714) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Turning all gun owners into criminals would reduce the number of gun owners by quite a bit, you'd be surprised how few people really are willing to go to jail. Drugs are addictive gun ownership not so much. The facts are that pl;aces where guns are harder to get fewer people get murdered, by all causes, removing the guns makes things safer for everyone.

Perhaps now that your episode seems to have passed you will see someone about those thoughts you had regarding "the 1%" sending crazy women into subways to kill us, thinking like that should be discussed with a professional.

[-] 0 points by freehorseman (267) from Miles City, Mt 1 year ago

No one said anything about the woman being sent by the one percent.You know that the point was that you will never be able to legislate mentaly ill people from acting out.Therefore you seek a cure all.Your cure all is to pass laws that do nothing to solve the problem.You would also pass laws that limit free speach.But only the speech you find goes against your beliefs.A law to cover it all.By a goverment bought and paid for by the corporations.Your laws have done nothing concerning drug abuse.Did nothing during proabition.They only give false hope to the confused. Fact is where there are no cars less people die from auto accidents .Your weak point could be made on a number of things.Perhaps you who misconstrue in order to self validate should be the one seeking a professional.

[-] -2 points by outlawtumor (-162) 1 year ago

The Government would do better just to de-fund the NEA and the DOE to pay for the security of our schools. The DOE was supposed to help America achieve energy independence and obviously it's a HUGE FAILURE.

These school children,after all are our greatest treasures.

if you or anybody else don't think that protecting our children is more important than funding (NEA) a Jesus figure submerged in a jar of urine then there is something wrong with the lot of you.

The NRA is right and your idea is silly.

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

Columbine had TWO armed guards
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[-] 0 points by outlawtumor (-162) 1 year ago

Connecticut has some of the strictest gun laws in the nation.

Sandy Hook is a "gun free zone".

Murder is already against the law.

Stealing guns from even your mother is already against the law.

What new laws would like to see the next murdering madman break?

Perhaps you just don't think children are worthy of the same armed guards that protect money or politicians?

[-] 2 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 1 year ago

There are far far too many guns in the US to realistically try to ban guns for civilians so most people are looking at other options. Try home schooling because there will be a lot of opposition to putting armed guards in schools.

[-] 0 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 1 year ago

Are you trying to protect kids, promote gun culture, or both?

[-] 1 points by outlawtumor (-162) 1 year ago

Protecting children is the number 1 priority I'm sure you'd agree.

The "gun culture" is here and doing fine without promotion of any kind.

Are you for disarming lawful,honest Americans or protecting the children or both?

[-] 2 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 1 year ago

I don't care if weapons are legal or not.

[-] 1 points by outlawtumor (-162) 1 year ago

Who has the responsibility of defending your life?

[-] 2 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 1 year ago

Me.

[-] 1 points by outlawtumor (-162) 1 year ago

With what?

[-] 1 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 1 year ago

My wits.

[-] 1 points by outlawtumor (-162) 1 year ago

Good luck with that.

Perhaps a good saying to post on a tombstone but not enough to keep you from occupying the tomb.

[-] 0 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

no, wayne

[-] 1 points by outlawtumor (-162) 1 year ago

Wtf does that mean? Why don't you just admit you can't apply a counter argument? I won't insult you for not being able to defend your point of view.

[-] -1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

I'm surprised his response isn't - "Well then they should have had 20 armed guards."

These big government police state hacks are annoying. They have no idea they helped build what they claim to despise.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6714) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Why should taxpayers have to pay? Why not firearm dealers, you know fee for service sort of thing.

So the answer to guns is de-funding NEA seems a separate issue if we need cops in schools because people sell guns then that's where the money should come from, now let's see if the NRA will push to pay for it's ideals or if they think somebody else should pick up their bill.

[-] -1 points by outlawtumor (-162) 1 year ago

"Why should taxpayers have to pay?"

We taxpayers are paying for the school to educate our children why would you not want to pay to protect our children?

It's really disingenuous for people to suddenly question public spending especially when it comes to our children's safety.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6714) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

If the need is caused by the supply of guns adding the costs to the costs of gun distribution would be a way for government to get things done without adding to the debt. I know the NRA is concerned about the debt like everyone else. What's disingenuous is people who claim to care about the debt coming up with ways to spend money without coming up with ways to pay for it, like the last two wars.

[-] -1 points by outlawtumor (-162) 1 year ago

"if the need"??? Guns aren't causing this need,murderous madmen are.

The need for security in our children's school is long over due and to now start to actually worry about the debt or money period is really shameful when protecting children is the only important matter to be concerned about.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6714) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

But then if they don't have the guns they can't really do much can they?

As a matter of fact we should fund all the prison cells for people with increased prison sentences due to using a gun in a crime with firearm dealer renewal fees that way we could reduce the debt without raising taxes.

[-] -2 points by outlawtumor (-162) 1 year ago

"But then if they don't have the guns they can't really do much can they?"

Try selling that logic to the victims of the China school attacks where many,many children were maimed for life by a machete wielding lunatic.

You don't even believe in a debt limit so why do you all of a sudden care about the debt??

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6714) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Again you avoid the issue if we need the guards because we sell the guns should we not tie the cost of buying the guns to the costs of providing the guards? Do the people who buy guns not want to protect our children?

[-] -3 points by outlawtumor (-162) 1 year ago

Again you ignore what you can't offer a defense for.

Let's apply your logic: Occupy should pay for the time incurred by the police and fire forces required to work during all protests and camp outs and for whatever public resources it uses.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6714) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

So you oppose people being responsible? If it is more cost effective simply to collect up all the guns then that is what we should do unless someone steps forward with a plan that doesn't add to the debt and still allows people to buy guns. In order to do that we need to raise the money to pay for these guards . Are you suggesting someone else should pay the bill? Do we borrow the money from China?

[-] -2 points by outlawtumor (-162) 1 year ago

Gun confiscation was done in Hitler's Germany. Are you suggesting you want the 2nd coming of Hitler in the U.S.?

If the Government is running the school that is educating your kids,the Government has a responsibility to protect your kids while they are under the Governments care.

It doesn't get more simple than that. You're purposefully trying to confuse the issue because you can't admit it is the right thing to do.

Why?? Because it doesn't involve confiscating guns from law abiding citizens and doesn't fulfill your Leftist agenda.

Again,it doesn't get any more simple than that.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6714) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

It costs money to hire guards, it is simple the money must come from somewhere why not raise it from gun sales? What tax do you want to raise to pay for these otherwise un-needed guards.

and what about all the added time for weapons charges to get the bad people off the streets as the NRA says why not raise the money for that from gun sales, you people just want someone else to pick up your bill, you may have the right but you must also cover the cost of exercising that right.

[-] -2 points by outlawtumor (-162) 1 year ago

So you believe our children do not need protection??

So you place profit and money above the health and safety of our children?

So you believe greed and money trumps the vulnerability and protection of our children?

You'd rather leave our children in peril then pay your tax's??

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6714) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

read your answer didn't see now how do you feel about that tax payer provided health care, we need doctors more than guards don't we? and hell if we just round up all the guns and melted them down we could sell the steal make some money and we wouldn't need the guards we could hire more doctors then cause people are still going to get sick.

Have you turned into some kind of liberal wanting the government to pay for everything?

[-] -1 points by outlawtumor (-162) 1 year ago

Clearly you aren't reading my posts.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6714) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Children do get sick are you ready to pay taxes to make sure that any who are can see a doctor?

Or do you not care about our children? Do you place money and profit above the health of our children?

If we need guards because we have guns, then those who buy the guns should pay for the guards, that's a very conservative principle.

It seems some people only believe that "others" should be bound by their principles not themselves, I think they call themselves conservatives.

[-] -2 points by outlawtumor (-162) 1 year ago

Do you always answer questions with questions?

So far your solutions are ridiculous.

Let's use your logic. Since most Democrats, Liberals are the folks that seem to want to give everybody,including illegal aliens free everything from health care to a drivers license to a job to a house and complete dependency on the State then only Democrats and Liberals should be taxed to pay for it. There,..that's a great example of your reasoning.

"If we need guards because we have guns, then those who buy the guns should pay for the guards"

Now that's not a very "we're all in this together" type of philosophy,is it?