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Forum Post: Updated And Expanded List Of 212 Obama Accomplishments, With Citations

Posted 1 year ago on April 7, 2013, 9:59 p.m. EST by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

I'm not entirely happy with all that Obama is doing... how-ever here's the PCTC's list....

Returned The Executive Branch To Fiscal Responsibility

  1. Within his first week, he signed an Executive Order ordering an audit of government contracts, and combating waste and abuse. http://1.usa.gov/dUvbu5

  2. Created the post of Chief Performance Officer, whose job it is to make operations more efficient to save the federal government money. http://n.pr/hcgBn1

  3. On his first full day, he froze White House salaries. http://on.msnbc.com/ewJUIx

  4. He appointed the first Federal Chief Information Officer to oversee federal IT spending. http://www.cio.gov

  5. He committed to phasing out unnecessary and outdated weapons systems. To that end, he also signed the Democratic-sponsored Weapons Systems Acquisition Reform Act, which attempted to put a stop to waste, fraud and abuse in the defense procurement and contracting system. http://bit.ly/hOw1t1 http://bit.ly/fz8GAd

  6. Through an executive order, he created the National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform. http://bit.ly/hwKhKa

Prevented a Bush Depression and Improved the Economy

  1. Pushed through and signed the Democratic-sponsored American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, otherwise known as “the stimulus package.” The bill passed, even though only three Republicans voted for it. In a major departure from the previous administration, he launched recovery.gov, a website that allows taxpayers to track spending from the Act. http://1.usa.gov/ibiFSs http://1.usa.gov/e3BJMk

  2. The Bush-led Great Recession was costing the economy nearly 800,000 jobs per month by the time President Obama took office. But by the end of his first year, the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act created and sustained 2.1 million jobs and stimulated the economyby 3.5%. http://reut.rs/i46CEE

  3. Not only did he completed the massive TARP financial and banking rescue plan, he also leaned on the banks and others, and recovered virtually all of the bail-out money. http://1.usa.gov/eA5jVS http://bit.ly/eCNrD6

  4. He created the Making Home Affordable home refinancing plan. http://1.usa.gov/goy6zl

  5. Oversaw the creation of more jobs in 2010 alone than Bush did in eight years. http://bit.ly/hrrnjY

  6. Along with Democrats, and almost no Republicans, implemented an auto industry rescue plan, and saved as many as 1 million jobs. http://bit.ly/ibhpxr Many are of the opinion that he saved the entire auto industry, and even the economy of the entire Midwest. http://bit.ly/gj7mt5 This resulted in GM returning to its place as the top car company in the world. http://lat.ms/zIJuQx Willard Romney, on the other hand, advocated for the entire industry to go belly-up. http://nyti.ms/k0zp

  7. Doubled funding for the Manufacturing Extension Partnership, which is designed to improve manufacturing efficiency. http://bit.ly/eYD4nf

  8. Signed the Democratic-sponsored Fraud Enforcement and Recovery Act giving the federal government more tools to investigate and prosecute fraud in every corner of the financial system, and create a bipartisan Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission to investigate the financial fraud that led to the economic meltdown. http://abcn.ws/g18Fe7

  9. Signed the Democratic-sponsored Credit Card Accountability, Responsibility and Disclosure (CARD) Act, which was designed to to protect consumers from unfair and deceptive credit card practices. http://1.usa.gov/gIaNcS

  10. Increased infrastructure spending after years of neglect. http://bit.ly/f77aOw

  11. Signed the Democratic-sponsored and passed Helping Families Save Their Homes Act, expanding on the Making Home Affordable Program to help millions of Americans avoid preventable foreclosures. The bill also provided $2.2 billion to help combat homelessness, and to stabilize the housing market. http://bit.ly/eEpLFn

  12. Through the Worker, Homeownership, and Business Assistance Act of 2009, he and Congressional Democrats provided tax credits to first-time home buyers, which helped the U.S. housing market recovery. http://bit.ly/dZgXXw http://bit.ly/gORYfL

  13. Initiated a $15 billion plan designed to encourage increased lending to small businesses.
    http://1.usa.gov/eu0u0b

  14. Created business.gov, which allows for online collaboration between small businesses and experts re managing a business. (The program has since merged with SBA.gov.) http://www.business.gov

  15. Played a lead role in getting the G-20 Summit to commit to a $1.1 trillion deal to combat the global financial crisis. http://nyti.ms/gHlgp5

  16. Took steps to improve minority access to capital. http://bit.ly/f9xVE7

  17. Signed an Executive Order instructing federal agencies to review all federal regulations and remove any unnecessary and/or burdensome regulations from the books. http://1.usa.gov/Lpo5bd

  18. Through the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, saved at least 300,000 education jobs, such as teachers, principals, librarians, and counselors that would have otherwise been lost. http://1.usa.gov/ez30Dc

  19. Dismantled the Minerals Management Service, thereby cutting ties between energy companies and the government. http://nyti.ms/bw1MLu

  20. Along with Congressional Democrats, provided funding to states and the Department of Homeland Security to save thousands of police and firefighter jobs from being cut during the recession. http://bit.ly/g0IKWR

  21. Used recovered TARP money to fund programs at local housing finance agencies in California, Florida, Nevada, Arizona and Michigan. http://on.msnbc.com/i1i8eV

  22. Crafted an Executive order establishing the President’s Advisory Council on Financial Capability to assist in financial education for all Americans. http://bit.ly/eyqsNE

Brought Much-Improved Greater Transparency and Better Government

  1. Signed an order banning gifts from lobbyists to anyone in the Executive Branch. http://bit.ly/fsBACN

  2. Signed an order banning anyone from working in an agency they had lobbied in previous years, and put strict limits on lobbyists’ access to the White House. http://nyti.ms/gOrznV

  3. Held the first-ever first online town hall from the White House, and took questions from the public. http://bit.ly/gVNSgX

  4. Became the first to stream every White House event, live. http://1.usa.gov/kAgOP5

  5. Established a central portal for Americans to find service opportunities. http://www.serve.gov

  6. Provided the first voluntary disclosure of the White House Visitors Log in history. http://1.usa.gov/hQ7ttV

  7. Issued an Executive Order on Presidential Records, which restored the 30-day time frame for former presidents to review records, and eliminated the right for the vice president or family members of former presidents to do the reviews. Provides the public with greater access to historic White House documents, and severely curtails the ability to use executive privilege to shield them. http://1.usa.gov/gUetLb

  8. Improved aspects of the Freedom of Information Act, and issued new guidelines to make FOIA more open and transparent when processing FOIA requests. http://1.usa.gov/gjrnp2

Wall Street Reforms and Consumer Protection

  1. Ordered 65 executives who took bailout money to cut their own pay until they paid back all bailout money. http://huff.to/eAi9Qq

  2. Along with Congressional Democrats, pushed through and got passed Dodd-Frank, one of the largest and most comprehensive Wall Street reforms since the Great Depression. http://bit.ly/hWCPg0 http://bit.ly/geHpcD

  3. Through Dodd-Frank legislation, created the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau http://1.usa.gov/j5onG

  4. Through Dodd-Frank, the Executive Branch fashioned rules that reduce the influence of speculators in the oil market. http://bit.ly/MDnA1t

  5. Fashioned rules so that banks can no longer use YOUR money to invest in high-risk financial instruments that work against their own customers' interests. http://bit.ly/fnTayj

  6. Supported the concept of allowing stockholders to vote on executive compensation. http://bit.ly/fnTayj

  7. Endorsed and supported the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act of 2009 that would close offshore tax avoidance loopholes. http://bit.ly/esOdfB http://bit.ly/eG4DPM

  8. Negotiated a deal with Swiss banks that now permits the US government to gain access to the records of criminals and tax evaders. http://bit.ly/htfDgw

  9. Signed the American Jobs and Closing Tax Loopholes Act, which closed many of the loopholes that allowed companies to send jobs overseas, and avoid paying US taxes by moving money offshore. http://1.usa.gov/bd1RTq

  10. Established a Consumer Protection Financial Bureau designed to protect consumers from financial sector excesses. http://bit.ly/fnTayj

  11. Oversaw and then signed a Democratic bill constituting the most sweeping food safety legislation since the Great Depression. http://thedc.com/gxkCtP

  12. Through the Fraud Enforcement and Recovery Act, extended the False Claims Act to combat fraud by companies and individuals usingmoney from the TARP and Stimulus programs. http://bit.ly/SLTcSa

and 164 more... http://pleasecutthecrap.typepad.com/main/what-has-obama-done-since-january-20-2009.html

410 Comments

410 Comments


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[-] 6 points by GypsyKing (9780) 1 year ago

Yes, all politicians are the same, therefore don't get involved in the political process - just Despair!

That's just what the 1% and their lackies here want you to think!

http://occupywallst.org/forum/troll-tactic-for-today-and-apparently-for-the-dura/

[-] 5 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

Of course all politicians are the same
Elizabeth Warren = rand paul
James Clyburn = george wallace

david & charlie & grover told me
don't think - don't reason - don't vote

[-] 2 points by WSmith (2022) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

And for god's sake arm-up before Obama takes your guns and hoards of criminals and gubmint come over the walls!!!

[-] -3 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

No, what" the 1% and their lackies" want you to think is that there is 'hope' in the two party system

The Occupy that I know is not one of "despair," but instead it is one of HOPE, and recalcitrance to the irreparable, money infested, polluted political system

~Odin~

[-] 7 points by WSmith (2022) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

No they don't, that's absurd. They want us to be discouraged so they can more easily steal elections for their Con employees. And arm-up thinking we'll fight our gubmint when it comes after us, but really just end up shooting each other, keeping us from uniting.

[+] -7 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

No, the two party system is too rotten to save.

~Odin~

[-] 4 points by WSmith (2022) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

It just saved US!

[+] -5 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

You're living in another world.

~Odin~

[-] 2 points by WSmith (2022) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

You should visit, there aren't any unicorns but the sushi is pretty good, and the smoggy sunsets are awesome.

[-] 0 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

You should get out while you have the chance

~Odin~

[-] 1 points by WSmith (2022) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

stuck in reality, nothing I can do

[-] -1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

Don't get "reality" confused with helplessness

~Odin~

[-] 1 points by WSmith (2022) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Not in any FUCKING way!!!

EVERYBODY UNITE!!!

When we do this we can get anything we want!!!!!!

Unite and WIN!!

[-] -2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

Whatever you & 'your' boys say Mr Nasty

~Odin~

[-] 0 points by WSmith (2022) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Ok Church LADY!!!

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

I'm perceptive enough to know that, those people who are vulgar like yourself suffer from a "Napolean Complex"

It is 'extrememly' doubtful that you could intimidate me in the real world VQ, never mind the virtual world

~Odin~

[-] 0 points by WSmith (2022) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Go away!!

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

Me go away, hardly

~Odin~

[-] 0 points by WSmith (2022) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

OK, your nest is a sham, none of your links work. I don't think you work.

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

Replying here. This movement is about building grassroot coalitions, and exposing the corrupt status quo along the way

It is not about coddling up to either of the parties who brought us to this shitty point in our history

Nor is it about being nasty to promote a partisan agenda, but I'm sure you already know that

~Odin~

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

lol

~Odin~

[-] 1 points by WSmith (2022) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

That is ??

Just help people instead of money and everything should work out! OK!!

We are not used to it, but give us a break!!

[-] 4 points by GypsyKing (9780) 1 year ago

My point is simply this, that the most powerful of those who have corrupted our democracy also want to destroy it. It is a sad fact that evil in this world often works remarkably well.

If we want to know the outcome of losing faith in democracy, whether direct or representaional democracy, all we need do is look at the fall of the Weimar Republic in Germany in the 1930's, and it's outcome (Hitler).

As bad as things are, there are those who would use their willful corruption of democracy to destroy democracy altogether, and then believe me, things would get A LOT worse. I am very disturbed by the fact that that objective has made inroads in this movement.

It is a lot easier to destroy a democracy than to reinstate one once it has been destroyed.

[-] 5 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

we must elect people who support the 99%
this NOT translate into the most perfect candidate
I would love vote for John Adams or Ben Franklin,
but it would be equally crazy to vote for ANY NON-ELECTABLE candidate

[-] -1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

And my point is based on the provable contention that every struggle in this country that has ever sought and achieved systemic change has had a radical element in it

So now after i have asked another poster on here, i ask you, if not Occupy wall Street, who?

OWS has formed many alliances with a plethora of different altruistic groups as most evidenced by the Climate Rally in DC, and the up-coming May Day rally in NY. These alliances include grass-roots groups concerned with immigrants' rights, workers' rights, women's right, LBGT rights, anti-war groups,churches, environmentalists, community groups, and radicals and reformers of all stripes. But to my knowledge none of the groups are trying to subvert each other from within or from the outside,

This delineation in the way the different groups operate is respected, and to a big degree it is advantageous even, as the corrupt status quo is getting bombarded by criticism and resitance from all over the place in a myriad of ways, not just from Occupy

A person whom i now consider to be a friend is one of the leaders in USLAW (US Labor Against War). I met him at a May Day planning meeting a couple of times, and again at the beautiful Triangle commemoration ceremony, and I have discussed this in person and in the half a dozen or so emails that we have exchanged. And without wanting to misrepresent him, i can tell you that we both respect the differences in how our respective groups operate. Why don't you GK?

I just cannot understand why you, and other people on here are trying to change what Occupy is about considering how far we have come, and yes how far we still need to go?

While you might feel comforted from the kindred spirits to you on this forum who talk about partisan politics day after day after day, you in very little way represent the real Occupy world. That's a sad fact for me as it reduces the potential of this forum.

The Occupy Wall Street movement is being driven by young people, and it is being assisted by ACTIVISTS! that have been around for decades. It is not a PARTISAN movement out to re-energize the old left vs right DIVISIONAL hatreds. It's that simple.

~Odin~

[-] 9 points by GypsyKing (9780) 1 year ago

Odin, I don't think it is I, or you, that are trying to change what Occupy is about. This movement started as a protest against Wall Street, and by extention against All polititans protecting the interests of Wall Street over the people. That is what I signed onto here.

What I see is that there are some here who would take advantage of political outrage towards Wall Street and Corporate America, and redirect it against democracy itself. I did not sign on with an anti-democracy movement, I signed on with and anti-Wall Street movement.

To me, as I'm sure also to you, this is an issue of overriding importance. I believe we simply must not be led into confusion regarding that central aim and understanding.

The institutions of democracy, weakened as they are, are all that stands between the people and their complete oppression and enslavement at the hands of international corporate power. The oligarchs know this, even if we come to be distracted from that truth ourselves; and so when I see people here harping constantly on how "there is no difference, the system is broken," etc., etc., what I see is an attempt to spread even further the very sense of helplessness and of apathy that got us into this mess in the first place - and I see that as being in the interests of the 1%.

I know that that is not the intention of many here who are very legitimately angered by our currently corrupted democracy, but I feel we must be VERY CAREFUL. What the oligarchy wants more than anything is for people to see the situation as hopeless and desert the political process, and I would hate to see this movement become sidetracked into a vision that actually advances their efforts in that direction.

I have no desire to perpetuate a leftwing/rightwing rift, but only a willingness to advocate for democracy itself, against those who would like more than anything to see its destruction.

These are very complex and sensitive issues. I would not have even responded here if it hadn't been to you. We have gone over this before, and I guess we simply are unable to have a meeting of the minds.

What I would like to see OWS do is get re-involved in direct action, and I believe a push for more participatory democracy at the state level would be a very productive method of advancing our rights as citizens, and also putting maximum pressure on our opponents.

I advocate for no political party here, I want to see Occupy remain radical - I would like to see us focus on method and action - but when I see posts here that I believe are intended to merely spread apathy, cynicism and division, I feel honor bound to speak up about it.

But frankly, I'm getting tired. I'm deeply involved in other work right now, so I won't be here to do that much anymore.

I've tried to follow my conscience. If I've been wrong then no one will rue it more than I.

All I can say in conclusion is . . . UNITY! Divide and Conquer has been the strategy of elites throughout the ages, and I think more than anything we must come to see that and somehow do our damndest to remain unified.

Thanks for your serious and thoughtful response. I wish I could say something more insightful, something that would be the rosetta stone whereby we might be able to reach mutual understanding, but what I have said here and above is all that I can see.

[-] 4 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Very well said. And may I add, Occupy can stay uninvolved in direct politics. No need to. Our actions have reawakened, encouraged, empowered, & shown theway for numerous progressive groups that do get involved with direct political action.

I agree Occupy should continue/expand direct action on the issues occupy has taken a stand on. Continue showing the way, supporting the issues, coalition building with like minded groups (even if they do get involved with direct political action)

And finally I'm afraid I have to say that if occupy found/finds support for 'creating a new system' (I can support the concept). Then the working group would grow, the efforts will excite people and draw support, just as occupy sandy, strikedebt, and others have.

Have you seen/heard of any 'build new system' working group/effort/event that I have missed?

Excellent comment GK.

[-] 3 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

I agree, Occupy is well placed to be the radical element that engages in direct action in support of the issues occupy has taken a stand on.

I encourage that, I do not need Occupy to be partisan, but I welcome all political persuasions since that is the context we all discuss every issue we care about.

I also support our coalition building with like minded groups regardless of there stand on political engagement.

I hear much about how we must 'create a new political system'. I'm not against that either. I wonder if YOU know of any working group/effort/event going on in this regard.?

[-] -1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

You will not see most of the Occupy that I know and respect, petitioning governemnt for grievances, as that legitimizes them

I think you might be in the wrong place with this "issues" thing that will no doubt transfrom itself the closer we get to the next election

Metaphorically speaking the idea is to rattle their cage, and not let them out until they capitulate

~Odin~

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

And I submit 'the idea' is to challenge the oligarchs (& their political puppets), advocate for change that benefits the 99% (strikedebt, immigration reform, foreclosure suspension), and build coalitions with like minded groups that can help in this regard. Petitioning is one of many peaceful tactics many occupiers embrace.

I hear much about how we must 'create a new political system'. I'm not against that either. I wonder if YOU know of any working group/effort/event going on in this regard.?

[-] 3 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

Do what you like to advance the struggle, but coddling up to the rotten political system is not Occupy's forte as it must be focused on being outside and recalcitrant to it

We do have coalitions with other groups who have different methods of operation though. We respect them and their methods, and vice versa

~Odin~

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Yeah, that rotten political system sucks!!

[+] -7 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Or you can vote for the ones who dont accept the money from oil, banks and vote for war when the time counts.

Either/or.

Not voting for the stuff we are protesting against would be a nice start. MAybe Im being unrealistic. But it seems very doable.

[-] 3 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Keep you ridiculous middleschool youtubes to yourself. I don't even click on them anymore cause you have shown yourself to have the mentality of a 12 year old.

[-] -1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Last time you said 5yo, so I guess Im finally starting to grow up :)

http://blogs.browardpalmbeach.com/cleanplatecharlie/2013/04/draft-_oregon_saying_no_to_fra.php

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Bullshit. You a child in any event. So your only contributions are sophomoric videos, discouraging/insulting all activism, bashing Obama, and apocalyptic pronouncements.

Worthless, pathetic,

Go watch a Ferril movie.

[+] -4 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Wow, thanks dude!!

[-] 3 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Anytime. I want to contribute helpfulness with every post.

How do you feel about expanding public option healthcare to millions of people.

Do you support occupies efforts to implement single payer public option?

Do you support agitating ALL pols and every state to start a public option?

[-] 5 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago
  1. Obama EPA reversed a Bush-era decision to allow the largest mountaintop removal project in US history. http://bit.ly/lP3yEL
[-] 5 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago
  1. Oversaw and then signed a Democratic bill constituting the most sweeping food safety legislation since the Great Depression. http://thedc.com/gxkCtP
[-] 3 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 1 year ago

yeah... saw that broken link

[+] -5 points by freakzilla3 (-75) 1 year ago

Insert Monsanto joke here.

[+] -6 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Wow, Im used to a certain amount of blind loyalty to the two parties, but this one here is going all the way with it haha and the link doesnt even go anywhere.

[+] -4 points by freakzilla3 (-75) 1 year ago

If Sarah Silverman can criticize Obama for it, anyone can.

[-] 5 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

THANK YOU!!!! I hope you are ready for the crazies to attack!

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago
  1. Ended the F-22 program, saving $4 billion. Though the single-seat, twin-engine, fighter aircraft cost $358 million each, and the military had 187 built, the F-22 never flew a combat mission. http://slate.me/PYzmzT
    WWW do? = what would willard do?
    (The "fiscally conservative GOP fought to keep it.)
[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

Authorized a $1.4 billion reduction in Star Wars program in 2010. http://1.usa.gov/gLFZl2

[-] 2 points by mideast (506) 1 year ago

Signed the Claims Resolution Act, which provided $4.6 billion in funding for a legal settlement with black and Native American farmers who had been cheated out of government loans and natural resource royalties in the past. http://1.usa.gov/dGppUa

[-] 0 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

obama is a banker shill. just wait till this week when then new budget comes out and the deep cuts to medicare and social security take place.

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Do you have any comment on the banking items listed in this post?

Or are you only interested in bashing?

[-] -1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

FUCK Obama and fuck the conformist counter revolutionaries that support him.

[-] 3 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Fuck everyone that doesn't agree with you!

[-] -1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

Basically yes, fuck them. Most people are too dumb to even consider their opinions.

[-] 4 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Yeah!!!! Fuck all those stupid people!! They should kneel to the more intelligent Zod....... uh er Quantumystic!!!!

[-] -1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

A post supporting the bailouts. On this site.

You obama hacks are too much. Thanks for all your hard work.

Who wrote this, Katie Couric?

[-] -1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

In the interest of fairness, can you list all the shitty things that Obama has done?

~Odin~

[-] 3 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Right after you list all the shitty things GOP has done, here's a list of all the shitty things Obama did that McCain would not have double down on:

....

Here's one of all the ones Romney would not have:

....

[-] -2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

We're talking about Obama now factsy. Try to Concentrate!

We can get to the other slime balls later

~Odin~

[-] 4 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Sure it's been over a year and you haven't got there yet, but that's not surprising is it?

Why don't you start tell us the policies that McCain or Romney would be better in? Or are you still living in that fantasy world where everyone votes just the way you tell them to.

[-] 0 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

Answering both your comments here factsy. I stand by that comment factsy, as people continued to lose their homes under Obama's reign.

He bailed out the banks and hired the same people who caused the housing debacle under Bush to be in his cabinet. These people should all be in jail, and the fact that they are not is case in point proof of who Obama's real con$titiuency is

No, I am not living in a fantasy world where i think that things would be better with people like McCain or Romney as President, as they also took big money from banking and corporate interests

We will never have systemic change by voting for either of the two main parties

And BTW when you implied that you were "like" Clara Lemlich in the OWS Triangle tragedy news item, well that really cracked me up. Thanks for the laugh

~Odin~

[-] 3 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Nice avoidance, the fantasy world you live in is one where if Obama weren't President then McCain wouldn't be either the real world seems quite beyond your grasp. Yes people still suffer from the years under Bush even though we have cut the debt and created vast numbers of jobs in the private sector in the last few years, yet you blame it all on Obama when the fact is here in the real world things are better not worse as they would be under McCain or Romney, you bitch but offer no solution.

So you feel it is your right and yours alone to define the conversation, the OP posts of Obama's successes you say "to be fair post failures too" I say to be truly fair compare how his opponents would treat those issues and you say "nay nay" (in your usual weak insulting way), I see if you are allowed to define the area of discussion completely maybe somehow in some fantasy world you make sense.

[-] -1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

Wake up factsy! Obama's opponents are not President. He is, and the policies that he pursues are not much different than the policies that Bush pursued

I am greatful that you & your multiple pseudonyms are befuddled, amusing 'aberrations' in the Occupy Wall Street movement

You belong in the democratic party factsy where you could happily continue the 'same old,' and yes even possibly be of some use in our struggle

~Odin~

[-] 3 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

and Obama will never run again so what's your point?

In spite of your advice to create multiple IDs I have always had just the one, of course you can't say the same.

[-] -1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

OK, whatever you say for now factsy

~Odin~

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

going back to sleep? did we wake you from your nap?

[-] -3 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

Hey factsy, how's it going? You're up early, aren't you? This is the time you usaully start your stinkling with your multiple pseudonyms, isn't it?

That's pretty much all you have left, now that we no longer have partisan moderators, isn't it?

~Odin~

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Sure, I enjoyed the day today myself. Just trying to be thorough.

[-] 0 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

Yeah, i know, but there is only so much time in the day, and now that the weather is getting nice....

~Odin~

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

No prob. Read 'em, don't read 'em. up to you.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

You love those multiple IDs don't you? and your concern over "karma scores" has never been greater I see, you of course have no actual response to the post or comments as your only purpose here is to tear down Obama so your boy Jeb will have a better chance as his brother before him.

[-] -2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

You are a pathetic little man factsy

~Odin~

[-] 4 points by ericweiss (575) 1 year ago

have your doctors up your meds

[-] 0 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

I choose supplements, OK?

~Odin~

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Overall perhaps (I can't say I keep track), but not with me (or certain others you target).

How do you feel about the minimum wage increase Occupy supports? (on topic)

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

I feel that Occupy should have supported an increase in the minimum wage a lot sooner, and in a lot bigger way. It would have been a great accomplishment. Are they taking more of an initiative now?

~Odin~

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Your statement doesn't dictate what is allowed, or claim to be an occupy authority, nor doesit personally attack.

All good.

Partially on topic. Perhaps the Fin reform (inadequate, watered down by corp puppet pols) should be refered too, but of course I'm not the final judge in any event.

Excellent effort, light years ahead of you usual comments.

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

Overall, my comments have been quite thoughtful over the past couple of months

~Odin~

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

This pathetic little man can see through your bullshit, a lot of people may not know that's why you call me "factsy" a lot of people don't know it's be cause you got found out over many exchanges, once I discovered your only purpose here was to tear down liberals and Obama in specific you got too scared to actually engage and started with the personnel attacks in classic con style. Here's a little walk down memory lane, yo GK this is for you man:

We fight wars to protect the "king's" interest not ours.

Odin said 10 months ago at May 24, 2012, 1:41 p.m. EST (delete) The war issue is a key one for me. Everything is inter-related. I am just trying to be a friend with what I believe is helpful advice. That's all

factsrfun said 10 months ago at May 24, 2012, 12:45 p.m. EST (delete) the thought of changeing names is against everything I have said, I led with the party stuff so as not to be accused of "hiding" as I saw that mentioned in the threads as I read, really only been bringing it up lately except in regurads to a few things, the wealth issue is the core problem and the hardest to focus on, if we let it get "co-opted" then all is lost, again.

it is now content vs tech which should/will "win" out? of course I have heard and know about "non partisn" ways/paths it's not like it's a new ideal.

Odin said 10 months ago at May 24, 2012, 10:55 a.m. EST (delete) Yes i have been up-voting you a lot too. Please think about what i said. Spend some time at looking at this revolution from a different angle other than wealth disparity. You could keep your pseudonym, and get another one going. There are always some set-backs in life. This is minor as things go. Some of them turn into blessings in disguise. This is minor as things go.

I can honestly say that i can't remember the last time I heard anyone talking about partisan politics in NYC. Back very early in this struggle, I do remember people carrying around Ron Paul signs, but that was early on, nothing partisan since.

This is my favorite quote, and except for real tragedies in life, it is applicable for almost everything. "The difference between ordeal, and adventure is attitude." author unknown You are being challenged my friend. Are you up for it? I hope so.

Please share my feelings with our cyber buddies that are being oastracized. You guys have a lot of good things to say. This revolution might not be going the exact way that either of us want it to go, but that is to be expected.

factsrfun said 10 months ago at May 24, 2012, 9:51 a.m. EST (delete) ps I almost always "up vote" you the only time I didn';t was back when I thought you didn't want a higher score for some reason

factsrfun said 10 months ago at May 24, 2012, 9:49 a.m. EST (delete) thinking about what you're saying because I spend my time here trying to get the/my word out (because isn't that what we are all doing) as a result my "score" gets high and people might think I speak for the group, when you visit the park if you see the same person over a few weeks do you ask him to leave for a bit so if people see him there all the time they might think he speaks for the group?

factsrfun said 10 months ago at May 24, 2012, 9:39 a.m. EST (delete) concenusis only allowed if the people agree with certain positions? are we not allowed to read ideals and decide for ourselves? if OWS does not take down the GOP it will become nothing as all before have, but it goes aganist it's own priciplas if it says this is what the forum should look like these people speak for us and these don't even if the people are too dumb to know they shouldn't like the things they say, I only came because I thought people had began to see the problem if they haven't then thereis nothing I can do, I can help you understand, but I can't make you care, as a result of the recent attacks, you may see some more R v D stuff from me at least till I get banned, had been moving to other stuff, but now I'm mad

Odin said 10 months ago at May 24, 2012, midnight EST (delete) Correction, it should be 'or' taking a hit...

Odin said 10 months ago at May 23, 2012, 11:58 p.m. EST (delete) Look FRF, i would like to see you remain on this forum. You have a lot of good things to say. I would ask you, and the others to look for alternatives to leaving here. Unless things change soon I would urge you to either come back under a different pseudonym, or....Well i don't think there is another alternative. Please explore the possibility that those that oppose you might be right too.

If indeed these attacks are coming from the OWS supporters, you can't blame them, as the rules (which I have been unaware of for a long time) are clear. No endorsing parties or canidates. They let that slide for a long time, but they awoke and saw some of the people here with the most points endorsing partisan politics big time, and that is not what this movement is about. For anyone coming here for the first time, and saw the people with the big point totals, well they would assume that these people speak for the movement on the whole. I don't think OWS liked that, and to be honest, neither did I.

I have changed my opinion on different things, especially due to the fact that I have forced myself to look at issues through the eyes of people half my age. I am not asking you to change your opinions, just to ignore the partisan issues. I think you would also have to expand your argument which seems to be only about wealth disparity. This struggle is about so much more than that. That would not be dishonest.

I urge you again to google up Chris Hedges, Brace Yourself. It will give you a bigger, better perspective.

It simply comes down to: What is more important to you, promoting partisan politics, and taking a hit on your ego, or being a part of what will be the biggest movement that this country has ever seen? It's that simple. We need you guys here.

Feel free to share my opinion with the others who are under attack as you guys are some of my favorite posters. It would make me sad if any of you left.

Odin said 10 months ago at May 22, 2012, 10:31 p.m. EST (delete) I consider myself to be a truthful person too. In fact I have even been acused of being too truthful. It is not a question of truth though, rather your opinion that differs from others, including mine on partisan politics. I am in the uncomfortable position of agreeing with people, some of them trolls, that are disagreeing with you. I do not like their vicious attacks on you, or their ganging up on you and some of the other people here that I have a lot of respect for, but like I hbave said I do not think that promoting democratic canidates on here is the right thing to do, and I think it hinders our cause. As I said in another post, I think everyone should just vote their conscience, and we should get back to running a revolution in the way this country is run.

factsrfun said 10 months ago at May 22, 2012, 11:11 a.m. EST (delete) If you've read my stuff you know how useless I feel the truth to be, as it cannot be malipulated, telling half-truths is a metoh of that, to tell half truths would a kind of co-opting that would defeat the whole point of posting, I only know how to tell the truth.

Odin said 10 months ago at May 22, 2012, 1:52 a.m. EST (delete) It is not the wealth, I don't think. It ias the partisan politics that bothers many. For someone first visiting this site, they could wrongly conclude that some of the people here with the high bot rial is rep of OWS on the whole. So They too might be suspect,

factsrfun said 10 months ago at May 22, 2012, 1:38 a.m. EST (delete) seen him a few times I bookmarked that one, need to watch the rest, I still contend they must be killed one at a time, and without addressing the simple math of the wealth issues will drive all things going forward if it is not delt with, each day I chech the front page and postings, for a bit, can't make people want what they don't.

Odin said 10 months ago at May 22, 2012, 1:31 a.m. EST (delete) FRF, have you ever seen that Cspan interview with Chris Hedges. It's a great interview (3hrs. ). Google Brace Yourself Chris Hedges.

Odin said 10 months ago at May 22, 2012, 1:13 a.m. EST (delete) I am not sure what is going on either, but there definitely is something. I feel bad that my views are similar to those that might be giving you the difficult time. I am simply following my conscience, and have not changed my opinion on that since I came here. I also know that partisan politics is not something that any of the people that I know in the city want to get into. That's just a fact.

I suggest taking a few days off from the forum, and do some reading, or play with the kiddies. Everyone needs time to think and reflect.

factsrfun said 10 months ago at May 22, 2012, 12:48 a.m. EST (delete) bots are collasping me with votes, or the group has sure change a bunch, guess just like the newspappers and the "liberal" radio hosts now I'm too "out there" for OWS too, not surprized the things I say will change the world, I'm sure others are/will say them too someday.

Odin said 10 months ago at May 22, 2012, 12:44 a.m. EST (delete) I'm on a cell phone in VT, and I'll be damn if I can find your last comment. It's frustrating not having the LT.

Odin said 10 months ago at May 19, 2012, noon EST (delete) I lost your last reply to me. I am in VT now doing this on a cell phone. The up-side is...it's beautiful here.

Odin said 10 months ago at May 16, 2012, 9:34 a.m. EST (delete) I lost your other comment. im leaving for Vermont today, so I don't know when I can get back to you.

Odin said 11 months ago at May 8, 2012, 10:53 a.m. EST (delete) That is what I thought, but wasn't sure. It's amazing how people have awoken, and how the ideas are beginning to flow. It was just that I visited Sweden last summer, and a good friend over there owns a real blacksmith shop, and does real well at it.

Information

Joined Nov. 19, 2011 this site was brought to you by various radicals this website is free / open source software on github

[-] -2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

Thanks factsy, I'll stand by everything I said there as it shows my humanity in the fact that even though I disagreed with you on partisan politics, I did not want your voice to be quelled by the unwarranted stinkling atttacks that you were under

All this is of course when I was under the mistaken impression that you were a decent human being

Can you put the thread up that was for the sole purpose of denigrating me? That was another good example that shows what a maleovent 'little man' you are

You are the total antithesis of what Occupy Wall Street is about. Take my word for it, OK?

~Odin~

[-] 0 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Occupy is on record (as you probably know) supporting minimum wage increase (and other actions that will correct the self destructive economic inequity).

The current effort to raise it is inadequate as always. But I am not familiar with any specific actions planned. I did take part in last weeks fast food wage increase walkout. So there is always something even if it ain't occupy originated.

Some info:

http://www.occupy.com/article/argument-raise-minimum-wage-part-i

'Occupy teach in' teacher Stiglitz:

http://kleinonline.wnd.com/2013/02/20/meet-brains-behind-obamas-minimum-wage-plan-occupy-wall-street-teacher-calls-for-diminished-u-s-power/

http://occupyamerica.crooksandliars.com/taxonomy/term/7859

http://www.nationofchange.org/occupy-minimum-wage-1328288588

Some early occupy demands

http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/occupy-wall-street-protesters-demand-20year-minimum-wage-universal-debt-forgiveness/

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

Of course, I'm happy the minimum wage will probably be raised soon. I just Occupy had gotten behind it in a real big way early on

And no $9.00 f that's what is still proposed is not nearly enough

Thanks for the links but could you try to limit them in the future to 1 or 2. It was a beautiful day today, eh?

~Odin~

[-] -1 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

OTP is talking about process, bureaucracy again! Occupy has never made official demands, but.......

We demand many things at every protest/march we have organized.

Don't be a fucking process fetish, bureaucrat OTP.

And just for the record. Occupy DEMANDS a minimum wage increase to $20.

Suck on that asshole.

[-] -2 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Soros should be deported, along with all the other banker/corporate scum.

Occupy doesnt, nor did it EVER, make any demands.

Your ignorance is appalling. Did you present a list of demands?

[-] 1 points by WSmith (2022) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

How lost can you be?

Imagine someone seeking refuge from the trenches of this Class War depending on the likes of you. You'd probably turn him in.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Odin once advised me to tone it down on the wealth inequality as a method to win over more friends on the site.

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Yesterday he took issue with my use of the word 'progressive'. i guess he is the self appointed thought police on the site.

But he never takes issue with Dem Bashing, he only ever fights positive Dem comments.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Oh you didn't know? He is:

High Holy Odin Keeper of the One True Path

(he's a con troll)

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Have you seen my little poem?

Who is Odin? Is he forvikleka? Or Karl Rove?

He’s a pathetic little man

With a pathetic little plan

Wants to twist inside your brain

Make your thoughts insane

Turn your logic into faucets

Pouring out false promises

Of love for all Mankind

Except donkey kind

For while the cons are just misled

The libs are beyond a mend

Democrats with open arms, and supporting policy

Are traps of doom to squeeze the life from thee

But those wearing sheets and holding bloody hangers

Are just lost souls dying to bash the bankers.

Two thousand not so far behind, another Bush awaits

The Greens stand ready by, again to seal our fates.

[-] -1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Those arent my words.

Some think it needs to be 15, others think it needs to be in the 30's. No one person speaks for the group.

But we all agree that its too damn low, and the rent is too damn high!!

[-] 2 points by WSmith (2022) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Then he'd hate this: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/02/income-inequality-in-america-chart-graph

He said something that I had to say I agreed with just a couple of hours ago. Then he went back to normal.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

If he didn't, how would he implant himself?

[-] -2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

Good night VQkag

[-] 3 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

If you ain't tellin people how to behave in a way acceptable to occupy you are spewing party diatribes.

This post topic is the list of small successes regarding issues occupy has taken a stand on. Why do you have to go to the VQ insults.?

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

Occupy has changed the whole dialogue in this country, and I now understand that there is a growing feeling in this country that the big banks should be broken up

How's that

~Odin~

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

You're letting your imagination get away with you. And the truth is I have come clean on my past behavior but not to people who personally attack, harass and generally divide with anti progressive partisanship.

Only to people I respect. However I have said repeatedly, & honestly that this IS the only ID I use now.

PROGRESSIVE!!! LOL

[-] -2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

Me..partisan?...lol

~Odin~

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

You're seeing VQkags everywhere!! LOL. My influence and legend have grown large and wide because of your paranoia.

This is the only ID I use. This post is about the list of small success we've made regarding issues occupy has taken a stand on.

PROGRESSIVE!!! LOL

[-] -1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

There's no paranoia on my part. Amusement yes, and you do have a past that you have not renounced. Anyone who acts like the VQ of old is VQ.

~Odin~

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

You are always accusing me of multiple IDs yet never use them when responding to me, if someone really knew you they might think you're just a lying sack of shit, and they would be right.

[-] 3 points by WSmith (2022) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

(ur outa replies)

If I'm VQ, then he's Shadz66/hc/TM. I wouldn't call her a goat, but I don't recall a critical GOP word out of her. A daiquiri bar fight.

[-] -2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

You're back to your old desparate name calling I see

Are you getting frustrated?

~Odin~

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Maybe he is just part of the 'cult of VQ'?

but who cares. Maye we should forget ID's, Karma points, political persuasions, and just discuss the issues.

This post is about the list of small success we've made regarding issues occupy has taken a stand on.

Can't we just stick to that?

[-] -1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

You're about a year and half late to the party Vkag.

Stick to what you're good at :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNiWzM462M4

[-] 1 points by WSmith (2022) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Ok, Shadz66/hc/TM

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

you are wrong to include Shadz with hc and TM, there is a difference in honest disagreement and being a GOP Goat but hey it's a bar fight in here, protect yourself at all times

[-] -1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Some people get it, some dont.

Keep up the good work.

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

Thanks, but I do want to put most of my efforts in thoughtful posts.

~Odin~

[-] -1 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

"ain't my words" YOU typed them.

  • The people of Occupy demands a public option single payer health care system.

  • They demand immigration reform,

  • they demand prosecution of criminal wall st banksters

  • increase taxes on the wealthy, no cuts to safety net.

  • Switch over to renewable energy, ending subs for fossil fuels, ending fracking, ending tar sands extraction, ending nuke energy/bombs, ending mountain top removal.

  • demand repeal of cu and money out of politics.

And much much more!!!

You wanna quibble about official documents and statements, you wanna argue about who speaks for or how many occupiers agree.?

NO!!!

[-] 0 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Hmmm, I was thinking about having multiple IDs.

But I have a life, so it would be a bit of tricky fitting it all in.

[-] 3 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

odin err frovikleka can tell you all about it, he loves them...

[-] 0 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

The mutiple IDs factsy has for stinkling are indicative of the deception that has brought us to this point

I would bet money that most of the people that have them are partisans.

~Odin~

[-] 0 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

I think Factsrfun must be VQkag also. Anyone who disagrees with you must be VQkag because there can't be that many different people opposing you.

NOT!!!!

PROGRESSIVE!!! LOL

[-] -1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

Factsy...VQ? No he isn't near as smart.

That's a compliment

~Odin~

[-] 3 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

oh I do remember one you blamed Obama for now tell us again how he caused the housing debacle?

[-] -2 points by Odin (2922) from Island Heights, NJ 17 hours ago Reality does matter. Look at all the "people losing their homes," and have lost their chance for a golden retirement, under Obama. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle reply permalink

http://occupywallst.org/forum/climate-change-deniers-and-third-party-supporters-/#comment-798531

[-] 2 points by gsw (2687) 1 year ago

It's the Obama/congress/senate and corporations all together. Obama probably supports Powell doctrine, he's all for Global Trade, corporations, in deeds not words.

They talk but do they deliver for us, the middle class, lower class. Nope. We're just bickering over minutia and causes, and Miniscule, questionable victories.

http://www.thwink.org/sustain/articles/017_PowellMemo/index.htm

[-] -1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

Yes and you can add all the REPUBLICANS to that list as well as both parties have been irreparably corrupted by money

Your right in implying that all this is just a distraction that THEY have used to keep us busy while they raid the hen house of the Golden eggs

It took most of us a while, including me to realize that there was a big gap between what Obama says and what he does

~Odin~

[-] 3 points by gsw (2687) 1 year ago

Yep, the money, which they want to control, monopolize, and utilize to maintain there superiority over everyone beneath them

[-] 0 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

Ding ding ding!

~Odin~

[-] 3 points by gsw (2687) 1 year ago

Oh what? No more money? System will freeze?

Here let's just give it all to the bankers and wall street. They'll save us. Send bill to little people, and say you're doing them a favor, so you can borrow more money from bankers, and pay them back with even more money, if you're lucky.

It's turning into a pyramid scheme

[-] -1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

"Pyramid" not sure, corrupt "scheme" definitely!

~Odin~

[-] 2 points by gsw (2687) 1 year ago

Money system is a ponzi scheme, the little guy pays profits to the richer guy above, and the poorer you are, the lower in pyramid which at the top protrudes upwards like the Eiffel tower

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

OK, I can go along with "ponzi scheme."

I've just always called it a 'we get left holding the bag' scheme'

Same thing, right?

~Odin~

[-] -3 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

The list of shitty GOP things would be just as long as the Dems list. They are the only two powers in this country for over a hundred years.

Stop clinging to the past and start looking to the future. Including war criminals in your future plans may not be the best thing to do to, um....end war?

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Yes I bet you would love for us to be just like the MSM and forget the past, forget that we had a balanced budget before the GOP fucked it up, forget that Nader put Bush in the White House, the more we forget the better off the 1% is.

[-] -2 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

I was speaking of going further back than that.

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

You're so full of shit.

[-] 0 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

I admit the list of "shitty" things the GOP has done is defintitely longer

But the degree of deceit that has been perpetrated in pretending to be FOR the people is mostly dems

~Odin~

[-] 1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Depends on how far back you want to go. If we started with the birth of each of these parties, or just the last 15 years, the lists are so long I can hardly see the end of em, hard to tell which one is longer :)

So much propaganda in this country about freedom and elections and democracy, and the people just get slapped upside the head on a regular basis, and then come right back for more.

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

Yes it does depend on "how far back you want to go" to determine who has the longer list of advocating policies that are beneficial for the corrupt elite, and detrimental to the people

While most people who were not brain-dead knew that the repubs were trying to screw us, but they mistakingly thought the dems were there to save us from the 'big bad wolf.'

~Odin~

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

folks have have been folks as long as there's been folks

I suppose you would prefer Monarchy?

[-] 0 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

I think you may be out of your league, as I do not think that you know what you are talking about

~Odin~

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Ah did using logic trip you up?

I know you believe that all elected officials should do exactly as you say, unless of course they're Republican then it's all OK whatever they do is fine.

The depth of your responses tells all we need to know about *my league" .

[-] 0 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

When i think of logic or intelligence, I do not think of you

~Odin~

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Hard words are all the same to you?

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

Any criticisms coming from you I view as a compliment ;-)

~Odin~

[-] -2 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

I'm rubber you're glue bounces off me and sticks to you.

[-] 1 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

You Are glue?

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

I know you are but what am I?

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

As if you ever saw a GOP policy you didn't love, you can't fool us Odin, we can read.

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

You're a funny 'little' man, maybe not in stature tho...

~Odin~

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Personnel insults? Let me show ya how it's done:

Who is Odin? Is he forvikleka? Or Karl Rove?

He’s a pathetic little man

With a pathetic little plan

Wants to twist inside your brain

Make your thoughts insane

Turn your logic into faucets

Pouring out false promises

Of love for all Mankind

Except donkey kind

For while the cons are just misled

The libs are beyond a mend

Ode to the Anarchist

Democrats with open arms, and supporting policy

Are traps of doom to squeeze the life from thee

But those wearing sheets and holding bloody hangers

Are just lost souls dying to bash the bankers.

Two thousand not so far behind, another Bush awaits

The Greens stand ready by, again to seal our fates.

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

Wow factsy that was beautiful, time consuming too, thanks..lol

Now if you invested that much time in understanding what OWS was about, you would be all set.

~Odin~

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Well you know I had it laying around since I wrote it for the post, which you ran off whining about, I guess The High and mighty Odin must not be lampooned.

[-] 2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

Whatever you say factsy

~Odin~

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 1 year ago

Will you give this fucking personal divisiveness - this pointless animosity - a fucking rest already?!!!

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

-1 points by frovikleka (2033) from Island Heights, NJ 14 hours ago You're a funny little man, maybe not in stature tho... ~Odin~ ↥twinkle ↧stinkle reply permalink

I'll give it some thought

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9780) 1 year ago

This goes back a long time with you guys, and I don't know when it started or who was responsible, or if you both just rub each other the wrong way, but for God's sake!!!! If you can't agree on anything then please, for the rest of us, would you please just leave each other alone? Every time I happen on this running feud between you here I feel demoralized.

[-] -2 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

odd that you would want to jump in on one side of this, after all if your intent was to smooth the waters you would send the message to us both, but I guess your in a side taking mood today

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 1 year ago

I'm not taking sides, it was simply your comment I saw first. I've said my peace, and I say it to you both.

[-] 3 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

I heard it, and will do my best to stay away from him

What a day today was...in the low 80s here, and before that I don't think we got out of the 60s, and even at that,not much

~Odin~

[-] 0 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

New moon today. Time for beginnings.

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

looks to me like you're just talking to me, when a ref makes a call he can't look up the thread and read what's going on, if you were to ask i'd be happy to tell you.

[-] 1 points by KevinPotts (363) 1 year ago

A List of Shitty Things That Obama Has Done? I Find It Ridiculously Outrageous & Atrociously Ludicrous That Anyone Conscious & Intellectually Functional, Possessing Even The Slightest Degree of Critical Awareness To The Blatant Reality of Such Obvious Corruption, Plutocratic-Puppetry & Injustice -That Anyone With Even The Slightest Degree of Moral Sympathy For The Revolutionary Struggle of Humanity Would Even Consider Acting Upon Such A Needless & Unnecessary But Laughable Impulse As To Make Such An Absurdly Superfluous Inquiry.

However, Given The Overwhelming Abundance of Such Rampant Conformity To Oppressive Conditioning, I Do Feel Honor Bound As A Fellow Sentient With A Moral-Conscience, Relentlessly Devoted To Human Enlightenment & Social Justice To Respond -in case you never got the memo :-)

When Bush Did What Obama's Doing, Were You Mad? (FLYER) http://stpeteforpeace.org/obama.html

Once Again—Death of the Liberal Class http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/once_again_--_death_of_the_liberal_class_20121112/

[-] 2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

I am totally perpexed as to how anyone can view Obama as our savior

It could easily be argued that Obama was the one most responsible for the birth of Occupy as many people had an epiphany to the fact that there was a nefarious agenda that transcended political parties, and their wanting to correct it

For me, it was a particularly sad realization as i had attended Obama's first inauguration over forty years after my dad left the comforts and ignorance of white America to take part in MLK's rally in '63

The 'story line' should not have went like this

~Odin~

[-] 1 points by KevinPotts (363) 1 year ago

Our Government Sucks, because AMERICANS SUCK. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dFGDs8zNGA

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

I think we should look at this list in the context of issues occupy has taken a stand on.

I see most of these accomplishments as small and inadequate, However they are almost all small steps towards goals that occupy supports. For instance Pell grant expansion (not enough) addresses the student debt issue, that Occupy supports.

What is left out is that the reason they aren't bigger steps is because of obstruction and blockage by certain politicians.

I suppose if you must see "shitty things" there are plenty of threads comments that cover that, or you can provide the post.

I will certainly comment on it if you do.

[-] 0 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

You forgot one important dynamic, and that is both parties take corrupt money from the same benefactors

There will be no systemic change by playing within the rules, not at this point anyway

You have more in common with 'some' the altruistic groups that OWS has alliances with, but most of them realize the dems have betrayed us too

~Odin~

[-] 3 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Dems suck whenever they cave in to support conservative policies, or whenever they compromise with those anti 99% right wing wackos.

I'm with you! This list of small success towards the goals of Occupy would be much better if not for the traitorous obstruction and sabotage of the recovery by the tea party extremists.

I say we should NOT play within the rules!!!

I support Occupies strategy of protest, agitation, strikes, demonstrations, marches, petitions, phone calls, pressure on the system for the progressive change that benefits the 99%.

And I agree ALL pols should be denounced for taking money from corp 1% oligarch fucks!!!.

Money out of politics!!! Support Occupies efforts to end Citizens United!!

[-] 1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Feel free to start actually organizing then:

https://movetoamend.org/barnstorming

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Movetoamend.org is a great effort. I support it and Occupies efforts as well.

And why would I have to organize what they are organizing?

Wouldn't that be duplicative, redundant, just more bureaucracy?

You push process fetishness if you ain't bashing Obama. LOL

[-] -1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

You organize the tour stops, rookie. This stuff doesnt just happen by itself.

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

No moron I do not organize the tour stop!! MovetoAmend will do that.

I will add my body to any organized protest action they conceive.

See how that works idiot?

[-] 1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

If you dont want to help just say so. Or you could check it out. Either/or.

[-] 0 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

I'm well aware of it. I will take part when it comes to NYC.

Whats happening in Tampa? Or do I have to inform YOU!!!???

LOL

[-] 3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Accomplishments of the GOP in Florida?

Here's their most recent important legislation.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/04/08/florida-gop-gets-bored-decides-to-waste-taxpayer-money-stalking-beyonce-jay-z/

They are apparently no longer needed to improve things around the State they feel is the most perfect in the Nation..

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

I just heard they had permission to visit cuba! Whew. the free world is safe again.

[-] 0 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Florida has been a particular problem since Gov Jeb/AG Harris stole it for brother GWB in 2000.

Looks like Gov Scott is gonna have a real challenge next time.

[-] 0 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Im giving you all the tools to do it. We already did in Tampa, but we are hoping to do it against possibly at the end of May, if not definitely in the fall when school is back in. Attending is not the same as organizing. Thats where we are not seeing eye to eye.

Here, we can use all the help we can get: http://movetoamend.nationbuilder.com/barnstorming_2013_signup

[-] 0 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

oops already got organizers in NYC. Y'know we are usually on top of this kinda stuff. In fact this may come as a surprise to a guy who doesn't keep track of the actions of his own towns Occupy but Occupy Wall st began in NYC.

And I KNOW that too many cooks spoil the soup.

My support will be in spreading the word (long before you!!), attending rallies, donating money, & volunteering (but not necessarily bieng "the organizer").

How do you feel about the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau? Do you agree with Sen Sanders it is a great agency for protecting the middleclass from banksters?

[-] 0 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Nice cop out. Ugh.

[-] 0 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

I was in Zuccotti from late Sept, been to many many meetings, many, many protests/actions with & without Occupy, I've been with Occupy Sandy, strikedebt rolling Jubille. Court room foreclosure support, Union rallies, eviction protests. and more.

You don't know what you're talkin about. You just can't handle me challenging your efforts to divide and discourage action.

I get to do this and take part in action in the street. Last week I walked over and protested with fast food workers at Wendys here in Brooklyn.

Before & after I came here to beat your sorry ass like an old salvation army drum. Aaaaaaah ha ha ha ha!

[-] 0 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

If you were you wouldnt be so ignorant on so many important facts of occupation

[-] 0 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

No cop out. We got many young hard working people in NYC to do the organizing. They don't need no 50 year old hippie gettin in the way. They need me to spread the word, donate money, attend rallies, & volunteer (but not necessarily for leadership)

This is honest, honorable contribution.

Did you organize something?

[-] 1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Honestly, we could have used more 50 year old hippies in late 2011. Any action can always use more help. Trust me, volunteer. You will not be in the way. And you are correct, any action is better than no action. So yes, I guess you are contributing. Although it would be nice to see you less on here and more in a reporting mode.

[-] -1 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Just because you state I am ignorant don't make it so. At least I know what is happening in occupy. You are obviously ignorant about actions in your own occupy. I had to inform you about Tampas activities myself.

But in any event you are once again resorting to unfounded childish personal attacks because your position doesn't stand up to the truth.

And that means only one thing. I have beaten yoursorry ass like an old salvation army drum!!!

LOL SMOKIN'!!!!!! Somebody..... Stop Me!.

Aaaaaaaaaaaah haha ha ha.

[-] -1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

The dems betrayal cannot fall into the category of a few isolated incidents

Our struggle is against the two party system that puts the interests of big money before ours

By playing into the political games, we will never have the sea change that most of us want

~Odin~

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Yeah!!! No playing into the political games!! We spit on the games!!!

We must embrace peaceful civil disobedience, I support Occupies strategy of protest, agitation, strikes, demonstrations, marches, petitions, phone calls, pressure on the system for the progressive change that benefits the 99%.

Until the new system emerges.

[-] -1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Some are happy with crumbs while the entire pie gets crushed by the MIC.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

I don't see the site as being full of happy people, but some are not insane, you would elect Republicans as was done in 2000 and consider that a job well done.

[-] 1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Why would I do that? Just because 08 got us a big pile of shit doesnt mean Im to then go with the other pile of shit.

Thats how fools think.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Why you do it is not fully known could be it's a payday for you could be you're just a greedy bastard like all Republicans, why is not important the fact that you work to elect Republicans is obvious in all you post.

[-] -1 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Others are unhappy with crumbs but eat them to retain strength to build on every small success.

This list represents the bare minimum of what we need to correct our problems. It could have been more had it not been for the Bush great recession, and republican obstruction.

It is a beginning, we must show we support any step in the right direction, and we must agitate all politicians to build on these inadequate beginnings.

A trip of a thousand miles begins with one small step.

Are you with us?

[-] -2 points by KevinPotts (363) 1 year ago

Okay Everybody, Gather Around…Eyes This Way…Smile For The Birdie [FLASH] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osR1jctb47Y …ALL Together, Eyes Forward [FLASH] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osR1jctb47Y …Now Let’s Bow Our Heads And Close Our Eyes And Pretend Like The Continuation of The Bush Administration’s Right-Wing Polices Under Obama Never Happened…[FLASH] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osR1jctb47Y

…Forget About The WARS, Forget About The Bank Bail-Outs, Forget About The Patriot Act, Forget About The Drones, Forget About Corporatocracy And The Death of the Liberal-Class…[FLASH]

…Obama’s Not A WAR President About To Cut Your Medicaid & Social Security [FLASH] Everybody Just Close Your Eyes And Pretend Like This Shit Ain’t Happening…[FLASH]…Let’s Just Focus On The Good Things http://occupywallst.org/forum/updated-and-expanded-list-of-212-obama-accomplishm/ No Need To Panic, Stay With Your Party…[FLASH]…Don’t Anybody Get Any Funny Ideas About Going GREEN Or Anything “Crazy” Like That…[FLASH]…

…Alright Everybody, Let’s Move Along…Nothing To See Here…Moving Forward…It Was ALL “Just A Weather Balloon”…[FLASH] http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=Ap2kohsyOso&NR=1

[-] -3 points by kandy4 (-81) 1 year ago

HA HA HA. "Returned the Executive branch to fiscal responsibility". 17 trillion in debt and rising. The fucking village idiot hasn't passed a budget yet.

[-] -3 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

He didnt end war.

He didnt end gun violence.

He still thinks that economics is a priority.

I still have to pay to learn in this country.

I still have sign up for selective service against my will.

I still have to pay taxes which go towards benefiting the military.

There are still immigration quotas.

Obama wants "english only".

He hasnt ended the War in Afghanstan.

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

And he doesn't walk on water! What is he waiting for? And what is this thing called "congress"? Andwhy haven't they walked on water yet.

What the fuck is going on here?

[-] -3 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

So you are saying that because Obama isnt perfect, that I should settle for what he is and not what he should be?

Abolishing the military is far from walking on water.

[-] 3 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Abolishing the military?? Were you expecting Obama would do that.? Ifthat is your measure you are out of touch with reality.

[+] -4 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

Reality=murder, mayham, war, guns, violence, ignorance, involuntary poverty, inhame treatment of prisoners, ect.

Im in touch with reality, I just dont like it.

[-] 3 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Yeah it's horrible. Only one thing to do. Gotta stop all the activism against it.

That'll learn 'em.

LOL

[-] -2 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

When did I say "stop ALL activism"? I dont want to stop ALL activism, I just want to stop those who are making it worse, like you.

I should do stand-up, Im clearly hilarious.......

[-] 3 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Clearly you wanna stop me. That is your only goal. And as always you are an utter and complete failure!!

You cannot stop me. I am unstoppable, Resistance is futile, YOU will be assimilated.

[-] -3 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

I want to stop you from going the direction that you are going, then turn you around and get you going in the correct direction.

The goal of a civil resister is provoke a response. You have responded to me contiually. Obviously Im doing something right.

[-] 3 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Yeah you are succeeding! Soon everything will be as you want it.

You are so clever and influential.

[-] -2 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

again with the responding!!!

Im doin goooooodddd..........

LMAFO!

[-] 3 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

A very low measure for success. no?

I suppose failure breeds this kind of desperation.

[-] -2 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

Gandhi said it first, I didnt. ;)

[-] 3 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

"again with the responding!!!

Im doin goooooodddd..........

LMAFO!"?? Gandhi absolutely did NOT say that ever. LOL

[-] -3 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

Yah, he did.........

[-] 3 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

I propose we fight, protest, agitate, strike, boycott, petition, phone call, ALL pols to implement the progressive agenda that Occupy pushes. I mean until the new system of direct democracy, from the ground up emerges.

[-] -3 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

Start by not paying taxes..........

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

I would never recommend anyone take part in tax evasion.

Besides we've already started. with the above tactics.

You don't pay taxes?

[-] -2 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

I dont suggest "evasion", but Refusal. You shouldnt avoid the government, but instead I suggest sending a letter to your congressmen and the IRS, saying that from now on you will be OPENLY refusing to contribute to the madness.

Tax refusal is exactly what Thoreau suggests in Civil Disobediance.

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Have you refused to pay taxes? Did you send a letter to the govt stating that.

[-] -2 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

Yup. Every April, like clockwork.

[-] 3 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Hasn't had much affect. When do you think you might succeed.?

[-] -2 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

yah, but at least I can go to sleep at nighy knowing that Im not helping to fund mass murder.

[-] 3 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

More low measures of success. So as long you don't contribute taxes to help the mass murder your ok?

Of course every single person in the western democracies benefit from the mass murder and therefore contribute and are responsible for it.

Sorry, try again.

You can use sleeping pills.

[-] -3 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

I helped pay for G-Bay, Iraq, Afghanistan, Black Sites, CIA torture, ect. and that is just the last ten years or so......

[-] 3 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

I did answer you. Review the thread.

[-] -2 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

You said: "Any benefits you enjoy come from the 3rd world exploitative actions of our governments."

Didnt answer my question. How did the IRAQ WAR benefit me in any way?

[-] 3 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

So that is middle school humour?

You so funny.

[-] -2 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

You said "Whatever you enjoy".......I dont enjoy video games or fast cars; so what else is there?

You did not answer my question. How specifically am I better off because of the Iraq war?

[-] 3 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Whatever you enjoy has been brought to you by the acts of the western democracies.

[-] 0 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

My ability to freely masturbate on command whenever I feel like was made possible by the existence of black sites!!!!

Wow, my public education really failed me.....

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

And you benefited from all those crimes & many others known and unknown.

Feeling sleepy yet?

[-] -2 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

How did I benefit? Did I miss something?

You must be a fan of jack in a few good men?

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Any benefits you enjoy come from the 3rd world exploitative actions of our governments.

You did miss something, I used "any benefits" (that answers how).... and I used "actions" which includes Iraq

[-] -1 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

I fail to understand how the Iraq war benefited me. Why am I better because the us military invaded Iraq?

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

I already answered you. Review the thread

[-] -1 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

i must be missing something. You have yet to use the word "Iraq' once while responding to me in this thread.

again....How did the IRAQ WAR benefit me in any way?

[-] 0 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

You live in a western nation! Any benefits you enjoy come from the 3rd world exploitative actions of our governments.

Otherwise we would be no better off than 3rd world.

In denial?

[-] -2 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

How did the US invasion of Iraq benefit in anyway shape or form?

I dont drive, i dont use plastic bags at the grocery store, what?

[-] -1 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

I can, I have, I won't repeatedly. You pursue on your own as an individual.

[-] -2 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

I'll just go with my own opinion. The Iraq war did not benefit me in anyway shape or form.

[-] -1 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

You failure to understand is your misfortune.

[-] 0 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

You can't even reiterate or clarify?

[-] -3 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

You are such a hypocritical fucking arsehole, I'm wondering how you've made it to the ripe old age of twenty.

You're the one that needs a dose.

[-] 3 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

I never use sleeping pills, rarely even aspirin. This post is about the list of small successes in regards to issues occupy has taken a stand.

It's inappropriate to engineer a childish, vulgar, unfounded personal attack.

Please refrain.

[-] -2 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

Censorship is inappropriate.

Please refrain from suggesting that people conform to your standards of PCness.

Nelson Mandela isn't African American.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

right after that he could break up some fishes and feed the country....

you people can never address the question of how would Romney have been better or how would he not have won if Obama didn't, yet when someone suggest you get involved with the primaries so we don't get another weak ass Obama, you scream co-op what it really comes down to is ego, you are unwilling to be a part, you want to be ALL That

[-] -2 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

When did I say I was pro-romney, in this thread or anyother?

If you had read my posts you'd find that I am against ALL elected officials and representative democracy in general.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

I know, my guess is you own futures in shotgun shells because can food and shot gun shells will be very popular in your utopia:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-question-for-the-anarchist-on-the-site-are-we-ta/

[-] -1 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

When did I say anything about utopia? Violence is always wrong and ineffective.

Do think that if the democratic and republican parties cease to exist ;suddenly it will be anarchy?

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

You say you are against ALL elected officials, if we don't elect them that's Monarchy right? is that what you want?

Do you think things get better if they stop calling themselves Ds and Rs?

[-] -1 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

A king isn't just going to appear out of nowhere. There are alternatives.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Pray tell, go on...

[-] 1 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

See my thread "the common law republic".

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

so you don't know how to do a link?

I have seen stuff about how we all hold hands and live happily ever after, is that the thrust of it?

[-] 0 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

So you don't know how to use the search bar?

How can you judge it if you haven't even read it?

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

I can can see that you will spare no effort to get your message and by extension the message of OWS out, you efforts on this front are I'm sure the correct amount to spend on your thoughts, thank you.

[-] 0 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

I'll take your word for it!

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

He did end the Iraq War though reading the so called peace advocates on here you would never know it, one would think people wanting war to end would notice when one does, of course most who claim to love peace really just hate Obama and the Ds and all working Americans ect.

He's not Superman? He didn't end gun violence and bring us "World Peace", humm I really thought he would.

He thinks people want jobs, how stupid is that!

He hasn't completely rework how we deliver education in this country? How disappointing!

We need a real working Draft not just a "sign up" we would have far fewer wars if the elite had to serve too, I see you wish to protect privilege for the rich.

Complaining about taxes, nothing new there all Republicans do that.

You agree with the US Chamber of Commerce low cost labor should not be restricted.

How can anyone know what any of us truly want? (this sounds like right wing insanity to me)

Oh you found a war he has only sch. the end of instead of actually ending, may i ask what war were you referring to up top?

[-] 1 points by KevinPotts (363) 1 year ago

Obama did NOT end The Iraq War, he tried to EXTEND the exit-date set by Bush and was denied! US troops were KICKED OUT! And it's Still NOT OVER, Private-Contractors are Still There!

[-] 0 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

The Iraq war is not over? Wow. Your delusional.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

We withdrew our troop on Dec. 11 2011 to not celebrate that is akin to not acknowledging they were ever there, only Trolls and closet GOP supporters or Green Party political hacks must depend on lies to make their points. Which of these you are does not matter your actions and how they affect others is what matters your actions help elect Republicans so you share in their "glory"

[-] 0 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

He didnt end the human concept of "War". He is a violent hypocrite who is obsessed with getting elected and being loved.

All elected officials are equally as bad regardless of what their political affliation is. Obama is just as bad Romney. Obama is just as bad a Bush. Bush is just as bad a Clinton. Ect.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

What with all elected officials being so bad I guess Monarchy is our only option, that's what you've hoping for all along the people just give up and let the inheritors run the world.

Wait a minute I see it now you're just a political hack spreading the Green Party lies, are you hoping to help elect another Bush?

[-] 2 points by KevinPotts (363) 1 year ago

"you're just a political hack spreading the Green Party lies" WTF are you retarded?! And why the hell are you even following me on Twitter? And why did I follow you back for that matter lol (click)

"FUCK Obama and fuck the conformist counter revolutionaries that support him."

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

The quality of your logic exceeds even your concepts concerning the revolution. Truth be told you are a sheep, with your head up your ass doing just what the 1% wants you to.

[-] -1 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

Since when and in what world are representative democracy and monarchy the only two options?

I'm against ALL political parties, including but not limited to the green party.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Leaders will be born or they will be selected, if you think we are all going to hold hands and sing kum-ba-ya into future you should WTFU

[-] -1 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

WTF are you talking about? Just because I'm against oligarchy, doesn't mean I expect utopia in return. People agree too much as it is already.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

So if we don't elect them and they don't inherit their power, just where will the leaders of tomorrow come from if you have your way? No leaders means shot gun shells and can food and we live like Mad Max.

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

You believe that con?

You seriously think politicians run the country?

You're that naive?

[-] 3 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Well I believe that when you walk into a movie theater and shoot a bunch of people, somebody wearing a uniform and getting paid with tax dollars comes and takes you to jail. You have twisted yourself up into a pretzel because you don't want people to know what you really think, that's another thing I believe.

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

You avoided all my questions.

A man in a suit does what? He works for whom?

Answer the questions, or admit that you've fallen for the oldest ruse in the book.

[-] 3 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

I told you what I believe the thing you won't reveal is what you believe.

[-] 3 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Really? Does any of us "run" anything? How naive of you to think so, of course the world is not "ran" by anyone.

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

I "run" a business. You "run" your keyboard.

If politicians still "ran" the country, there would have been no bankster-orchestrated crisis, nor any bankster-orchestrated bailouts.

Your pretense that an elected body is in control of your fiat economy is laughable, factsy.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

I actually believe the that the politicians could have made some different choices that would have been more equitable. You say they have no power at all, which is it? No power or some power are they at least in some ways responsible or not? and if they are, we are back to the original concept of does it matter or not who we elect. I say they were at least partly responsible and it does matter. What say you?

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

They system is about smoke and mirrors.

The illusion of control from the ballot box is carefully cultured, right up to the bell.

Who was it that said, "If voting made a difference, it would be outlawed." ?

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

You say it right here "If politicians still "ran" the country, there would have been no bankster-orchestrated crisis, nor any bankster-orchestrated bailouts."

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Which part of that are you troubled with?

Banksters were directing the shots in both of those circumstances.

Can you refute that? Politicians did what? Ask the banksters what they wanted?

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Well you can go wherever you need to to but unless your a lying sack of shit I don't expect to see you on the site blaming Obama for the banking shit.

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Heheheheh. You don't even respond to the question.

Are you another of VQ's sock puppets?

We don't bother mentioning partisan hacks like obomney, unless the context of the question requires it.

Try to keep up, or maybe just keep doing what you've always done.

The choice is yours.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

What's "partisan" about asking a simple question? OK if you like it better do you mean to say that neither Obama nor Bush nor anybody in Congress is in any way to blame for the banking crisis, because that's what you just said.

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

If you want an accurate historical account of the deregulation of the bankster system, we'll need to go back way past your birthday. Will you be comfortable with that? It's all non-partisan and above board.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Really are you saying that Obama is completely blameless for the bank bailout?

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Really, are you attempting to create a partisan argument out of a clearly non-partisan situation?

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Have you replace Odin as the keeper of the rules? You resort to fucking rules to defend your indefensible position?

What a fucking hoot!

You said politicians were blameless no body made you say it, why the fuck you said it is what I'm trying to figure out.

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Answer the question in the context of the debate.

Where did I say that politicians were blameless, and WTF does that have to do with the content and the context of the thread.???

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

You say it here as well "You seriously think politicians run the country?" so let's talk about context.

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Sure. start talking about context.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

I actually believe the that the politicians could have made some different choices that would have been more equitable. You say they have no power at all, which is it? No power or some power are they at least in some ways responsible or not? and if they are, we are back to the original concept of does it matter or not who we elect. I say they were at least partly responsible and it does matter. What say you?

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

The lobbyist industry is running the country. They buy (bribe) politicians, whether they be R or D makes no difference to the bribers. Everyone has a price, or they get a bullet/plane crash/heart attack.

It's not like this is not obvious in today's political climate.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

So does it matter who we vote for or not? I didn't see your answer, you still insisting that Obama is blameless?

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

You still putting words in other's mouths?

I never mentioned Obomney.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

1 points by Builder (3784) 9 minutes ago It does not matter. I thought I already told you that. Do you want me to shout? ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

I disagree I think that Obama and Congress can be held responsible because it does matter who is in office and who we vote for, so I guess we just disagree on this point.

[-] 0 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

How many states get overlooked in the presidential election?

Fly-over states. Not worthy of campaining, because they are red or blue.

Now, how many times has Obomney been blackballed by congress over bills he wants passed? He is the war chief, right? The nation is still at war against "terror" right? Or does he just get to say yes to drone assassinations?

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

then you write three paragraphs not to answer yes or no does it or does it not matter? you see yourself the foolish lies in your position so you cannot answer; this is funny as hell.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

It almost sounds like you think it does matter who we vote for , have you changed your mind that, man talk about not answering the fucking question and this is a really simple one.

[-] 0 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

I'm Australian, factsy.

My vote won't count in your country.

Can you imagine what things would be like, if voting was compulsory in the US, as it is in Australia?

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Obama is just one of the many elected officials you hold completely blameless for the banking debacle.

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

If you want the history of it, wasn't it under Clinton's watch that people's deposits became fair game on the casino at wall street.

The minute that the govt says it will no longer guarantee depositor's money, the casino will close, and banksters will start looking at new ways to phukk the economy.

Are you for that concept? Or against it, factsy?

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Wow so you will literally go to the ends of the earth to avoid answering a simple question does it or does it not matter who one votes for? or does your thoughts not matter in America since you don't live here, talk about a pointless distraction of an answer the more you resist answering a simple question the more clear your purpose here becomes.

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

It does not matter.

I thought I already told you that.

Do you want me to shout?

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

you see while you might not have said anything about Obama I am addressing what you actually did say, you said it doesn't matter who we vote for are you changing that now or do you still hold Obama blameless?

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

In 2008, Obama was brought forward by sections of the ruling class seeking a facelift for its reactionary policies. He replaced George W. Bush, the most hated president in US history. The fact that he was the first African American president was used to promote the illusion of change, with the assistance of the upper middle class proponents of identity politics who orbit around the Democratic Party.

The “transformative president” hailed by the liberal establishment and pseudo-left has become the most reactionary administration in American history. This will not dissuade the professional promoters of the Democratic Party, who will do everything they can to maintain political illusions in the two-party capitalist system, though with increasing difficulty.

The United States is heading toward a social explosion. By its own actions, the ruling class is demonstrating the necessity for revolution. The immense anger and opposition that is building up in the American working class must and will increasingly be directed against the Democratic Party.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (10286) from Phoenix, AZ 12 minutes ago 1 points by Builder (3784) 9 minutes ago It does not matter. I thought I already told you that. Do you want me to shout? ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink I disagree I think that Obama and Congress can be held responsible because it does matter who is in office and who we vote for, so I guess we just disagree on this point. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle reply edit delete permalink [-] 0 points by Builder (3784) 8 minutes ago How many states get overlooked in the presidential election? Fly-over states. Not worthy of campaining, because they are red or blue. Now, how many times has Obomney been blackballed by congress over bills he wants passed? He is the war chief, right? The nation is still at war against "terror" right? Or does he just get to say yes to drone assassinations? ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink [-] 1 points by factsrfun (10286) from Ph

you keep jumping back and forth do politician matter or not on one hand you say no they are blameless then you start into all this other stuff as if they matter you are just running as fast as you can so your lies don't catch up that's the only thing that makes sense at this point.

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

I'm not running.

You wanna keep moving the goalposts, I'll keep converting those points.

The illusion you believe in (presidential importance) is negated by congress, who are owned by corporate lobbyists, and they are funded by some of the wealthiest people on the planet.

You insist on believing a lie that corporate-owned media drilled into your head through relentless advertising, and now you want me to cure your malady?

You're an interesting case; i'll grant you that much.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

I'm thinking it's a good thing you're not running, I assume you mean for office., because you sure as hell are running from your statement that politicians don't run the country.

I think you were just trying to make a debate point and got your asre caught in a slammer.

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

If it makes you sleep better at night, who am I to argue?

What's an asre?

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

I knew you were capable of logic, I mean you can see a misspelled word so there must be some other explanation for your obtuseness.

[-] 0 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

It's troubling you that I don't attack, right?

There's only so many hours in any given day, factsy, and your allotted time is almost up.

If you have anything intelligent to add to this conversation before I turn in for the night, spit it out, old mate.

[-] -2 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

LeaderFULL. Everyone should be the leader.

Anarchy isn't inevitable.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Yeah you see circular arguments are used by lying sacks of shit to hide their true agenda. Yours is circular I wonder if you are a lying sack of shit?

So you think we not only don;t need leaders but all we have to do is get rid of the ones we got and everybody will just "get along"?

I'm sorry I've met people and I don't trust them that much I expect that there's a good chance somebody will find some reason they need to belch a bunch of poison gas into the air or dump shit into the water and the next thing you know we all got cancer, so no thank you I like having somebody in charge.

[-] 1 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

You can call me a "lying sack of shit"(which I probally am one, especially if you arent one), but you cant answer my posts with evidence and proofs.

According to some in IR Theory, all individuals behave like states and possess individual soveriegnty. People give up part or all of thier soveriengty as part of a social compact with eachother and/or a government. People should take back thier right to decide forthemselves from totalitarians who rule the governments of the world.

The CLR is NOT anarchy.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

answer your post? where have you presented a question? on the other hand I have asked several while you answer none. The one true thing you have said is if people read the thread it is easy to see what a lying sack of shit you are.

[-] 0 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

This seems to be a common comeback issue for you, factsy.

I'm still thinking you might be a bot.

I'll run your posts through the old bot-detector for a few days.

Just keep posting, and I'll keep you informed.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago
[-] 0 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

That's all in the database already thanks.

Robovac is on the job. I'll turn in now, and see what it says in the morning.

Sleep tight. Or happy shutdown if you're a bot.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

will you now can't wait

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Things aren't always as they appear.

Deception is everywhere.

Your posts point to a distinct subversive element.

Or a bot. We'll get to the bottom of this.

Just be patient.

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Technically, the Iraq conflict moved to Syria, along with four million displaced Iraqis. The "rebel" fighters in Syria are Al Q'aida paid mercenaries. I guess your beloved Obomya doesn't know about that, right?

[-] 3 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

How many troops do we have in Syria? Technically? you missing Bush? I hear his brother is looking to run....

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Who needs troops, when you have mercs on the payroll?

[-] 3 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Well I don't know about you but I would have much happier if we had never sent troops to Iraq, so for me yes it does matter.

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

It's the neo-con plan for globalisation. Iran is next.

Nobody I know in Australia wanted our troops there either, but it's happened.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

and yet now they are gone I guess it does matter who is in the White House

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Why? We're stilling losing our guys in Afghanistan.

Nobody has ever explained WTF we are doing there.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Didn't you mention Afghanistan twice? Weren't we talking about Iraq? Does your change of subject mean that we now agree Obama Ended the Iraq War

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

The damage is done in Iraq.

Now that everyone is aware that staying there will lead to your children being born with all kinds of deformities, the place will be a ghost town in time for the final takeover of the oil stocks.

As for Afghanistan, it's probably just a great strategic staging post for the foray into Iran. The faux hunt for bin Laden? Laughable. No DNA evidence, and the entire Seal team killed to cover up the evidence.

Hunting Al Qaeda? They are in Syria, pretending to be rebel fighters.

[-] 3 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Bin Laden is dead you really are a stupid con aren't you?

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

You don't follow my sarcasm?

He died in a Saudi hospital in 2001.

[-] 3 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

You could teach at the University of FOX NEWS

[-] -3 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago
[-] 3 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Uh oh! conspiracy theory wacko alert!!

[-] -3 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

he DID NOT END THE WAR IN IRAQ are you FUCKING KIDDING ME? the ONLY reason we are not there in force is because the iraqi's would not give our soldiers immunity from murder any longer. obama tried his best to negotiate a way for us to stay. i swear that people are ridiculous.

[-] 3 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Your grasp of reality is rivaled only by that of FOX NEWS

[-] -1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

really how about you pull your head out of obamas ass and have a look around the internet. there is this thing called google. you can actually find out the truth. fucking idiot hack counter revolutionary.

[-] 3 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

"The war officially ended on Dec. 15, 2011"

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/03/19/a-war-before-and-after-part-4/

you're right there is a google....

[-] 0 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

either you are stupid or you think i am, but if that is what you think you have made a tragic error. 136 on the binet-stanford, so try again sucker. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford%E2%80%93Binet_Intelligence_Scales#Scale

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War#2011:_Conclusion

With the collapse of the discussions about extending the stay of any U.S. troops beyond 2011, where they would not be granted any immunity from the Iraqi government, on 21 October 2011, President Obama announced at a White House press conference that all remaining U.S. troops and trainers would leave Iraq by the end of the year as previously scheduled, bringing the U.S. mission in Iraq to an end.[85] The last American soldier to die in Iraq before the withdrawal was killed by a roadside bomb in Baghdad on 14 November.[312]

In November 2011, the U.S. Senate voted down a resolution to formally end the war by bringing its authorization by Congress to an end.

feel free to go to wiki and click on their citations.

[-] 3 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

I thought I perceived a class "B" intelligence in your comments you should do well if you apply yourself in life.

I looked at your link but couldn't find how many troops were killed in Iraq in 2012 could you give me that please? So I too can be a lying sack of shit and claim the Iraq War was not ended.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Here's something to think about, the number of people who live within a mile of me and would exceed your score is over ten times as great as the number that live in my state and would exceed mine.

[-] -2 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

i doubt it. i have read your posts. if that is genius glad i am not.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

did you figure out the little riddle, good, so are you just guessing about your number? have you ever heard of Mensa? if you're not lying they might let you in, you're borderline but you know it's really about the dues.

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

that is my number. if i was lying i would be a genius obviously, because that is what every person who lies about their iq is. i am aware of mensa and yes i am sure they would like my money.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6806) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

They might take your money like I said you're borderline.

[-] 0 points by gnomunny (6647) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

Not to mention the fact that the order was signed by Bush in 2008. Quote:

"All American military forces were mandated to withdraw from Iraqi territory by 31 December 2011 under the terms of a bilateral agreement signed in 2008 by President Bush."

Not use trying to use actual facts against these Obama hacks, qm. It's been tried ad nauseum. They're not really interested in the truth anyway.

[-] 0 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

hey, they can lie to themselves all they want, but don't take me for an idiot.

[-] 0 points by gnomunny (6647) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

They consider most of us idiots. Anyone who doesn't tow the party line.

[-] -2 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

See, its a win win for both of em. Bush gets to claim he ended the disaster he started, and then Obama gets to claim the same thing. And the public really has no clue as to what the hell is going on, while the partisans use it to sling at one another while the entire house is being robbed.

[-] -1 points by gnomunny (6647) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

Yep. You have a pretty clear picture of what's really going on. The fact that you're constantly attacked for pointing it out is pretty telling.

[-] -3 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Im going for the record in negatives...

[-] -1 points by gnomunny (6647) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

You still have a long way to go, lol. I was checking out an old thread the other day that someone bumped for some reason and noticed someone had a crazy low score. Don't remember right off how low it was but I think it was minus six or seven hundred.

So, let's get on the ball, slacker! You've got a long way to go, heheheh.

[-] -1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago
[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

I didn't know about the record attempt.

I keep twinkling your negs.

My bad.

The Obombya partisan hacks here (hell, it might be just VQ and his dozen sock puppets) get all flustered and near choking status when you point out their fixations.

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

So you say "we are not there (in Iraq)", and you say "he did not end end the war"

But the war is over, and it is over because of the Pres actions so.......????

Some people refuse to give this Pres any credit because he is black. Are you one of those?

[-] -1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

i don't give this president any credit cause he is a globalist pig, race has nothing to do with it. you have me confused for someone else. i am a PROGRESSIVE not a new democrat jerk off or in obamapologist like some of the conformist hacks on this site.

[-] 0 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Most progressive I know are less willing to attack people but great. always good to have more progressives in the fight.

Obama is obviously NOT progressive, what fool thought that?. In any event there's no need for childish name calling.

I guess you don't support the accomplishments listed on this post?

[-] -3 points by freakzilla3 (-75) 1 year ago

Don't forget that he won a Nobel Peace Prize. One hell of an accomplishment.

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6647) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

He didn't 'win' anything. He was given the NPP for doing absolutely nothing to earn it, a fact he himself acknowledges.

[-] 1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Im pretty sure that was sarcasm. You're slippin gnomunny :)

[-] 0 points by gnomunny (6647) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

Damn! Well, in my defense, somebody's been keeping me up way past my bedtime lately.

Can't . . . think . . . . clearly.

[-] 2 points by Fiona4ever (2) 1 year ago

Excuses, excuses.

[-] 0 points by gnomunny (6647) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

Fiona, my dear!

Uh, I didn't see you standing there.

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6647) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

Sorry 'bout that, freak. I shoulda known better.

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Meaningless! & not related to any issue occupy has taken a stand on. But many of the items on this list represent slow progress on the issues occupy has taken a stand on.

[-] -3 points by freakzilla3 (-75) 1 year ago

Occupy hasn't taken a stand on peace? Is it anti-peace?

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

The award is called a peace prize but is not 'peace'.

LOL.

Your pathetic republican talking point partisan Obama bashing is laughable.

Why don't you comment ONE of the items listed in this post.?

Perhaps one that is related to an issue that occupy has taken a stand on.

How about expanding Pell grants. Occupy would prefer much larger expansion. Do you support building on this small accomplishment and finally providing real access to college without massive becoming an indentured servant?

[-] -2 points by freakzilla3 (-75) 1 year ago

Pell Grants did wonders for the University of Miami, so sure. Sounds good.

[-] 0 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Well then if you support this occupy goal don't you think we should support & lift up all pols who vote for Pell expansion & identify, denounce and retire any pol who obstructs, blocks, waters down and votes against Pell grant expansion?

[-] -3 points by freakzilla3 (-75) 1 year ago

Well, Miami football is pretty bad now so another Pell Grant scandal resulting in probation wouldn't matter much. Can we steer the grants towards certain other colleges? Dangle a carrot so to speak? Offer a little temptation? I have a list.

[-] 0 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

So you aren't serious. Just more pathetic clowning around?

You do not support Pell grant expansion or you do? Which is it little boy?

[-] -2 points by freakzilla3 (-75) 1 year ago

In theory yes, but like everything else, good intentions get abused. A lot of oversight is needed.

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

"In theory....but"? Not much conviction. We can have oversight, what are you concerned about.? People taking grant money and not going to college.?

Have you seen a lot of that.?

[-] -2 points by freakzilla3 (-75) 1 year ago

Yes.

http://www.freep.com/article/20130217/NEWS06/302170251/Pilfering-Pell-Grants-Scammers-ripping-off-colleges-for-millions

First sentence:

"Thousands of Michigan residents have collected Pell Grants without attending classes in the past year, costing Michigan's colleges millions of dollars that have to be paid back to the federal government."

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Well clearly someone is watching then. So, what is your objection.? You think this good, necessary investment effort is different from every other effort (public or private).

If we used the excuse of corruption to oppose every effort there would be no military, hospitals, or anything.

Let's agree to support it and implement strict oversight. Of course. On every pgm. Obviously!

[-] -3 points by Stormcrow1 (-25) 1 year ago

So why is the economy suffering so much ( only 80,000 jobs) last month and the debt continues to climb?

If what you posted really ment something, then we would be around 4% unemployment and everyone would have a great paying job.

Instead, people are making minimum wages to survive and 90 million pepole are without work who want to work.

[-] 8 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

In the past, economies in this kind of trouble were saved by government spending.
But the rabid Rs wont allow that.
We need a WPA & CCC & TVA. Our minimum wage is so low because one party and its
owners dont want it increased
If you want to make sure it is raised, elect more Ds

the kochs & alec worry about the debt
the 99% worry about jobs

do you stand with willard & ron paul & paul ryan & ayn

[-] 4 points by GypsyKing (9780) 1 year ago

Oh no, now you will be accused of heresy! No Occupier Can Acknowledge Facts If They Favor One Of The Existing Parties.

Repeat after me . . . No - Occupier - Can - Acknowledge - Facts - If - They - Favor - One - Of - The - Existing - Parties.

Now you are in line with Orthodoxy! You have come to love Big Brother!

But I won't have this stupid debate again . . . I simply won't.

[-] 2 points by gsw (2687) 1 year ago

We need to get organized like the elites

http://www.thwink.org/sustain/articles/017_PowellMemo/index.htm

[-] 3 points by Renneye (3703) 1 year ago

Great link to the Powell Memo, 'gsw'. Thanks!

[-] 3 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

That is the Lewis Powell that was appointed to SCOTUS by tricky dick

[-] 1 points by gsw (2687) 1 year ago

Says he was as democrat at that time. he seems to have done well for himself at our expense.

So people like that get promoted to the highest offices. No wonder we've been taken to the cleaners.

[-] 2 points by gsw (2687) 1 year ago

See all the shit Lewis Powell gave us...., led to citizens united!

Powell Memorandum

Based in part on his experiences as a corporate lawyer and as a representative for the tobacco industry with the Virginia legislature, he wrote the Powell Memorandum to a friend at the US Chamber of Commerce. The memo called for corporate America to become more aggressive in molding politics and law in the US and may have sparked the formation of several influential right-wing think tanks[5] as well as inspiring the U.S. Chamber of Commerce to become far more politically active. In August 1971, prior to accepting President Nixon's request to become Associate Justice of Supreme Court, Lewis Powell sent the "Confidential Memorandum" with the title, "Attack on the American Free Enterprise System." Powell argued, "The most disquieting voices joining the chorus of criticism came from perfectly respectable elements of society: from the college campus, the pulpit, the media, the intellectual and literary journals, the arts and sciences, and from politicians." In the memorandum, Powell advocated "constant surveillance" of textbook and television content, as well as a purge of left-wing elements. This memo foreshadowed a number of Powell's most notable[neutrality is disputed] court opinions, especially First National Bank of Boston v. Bellotti, which shifted the direction of First Amendment law by declaring that corporate financial influence of elections through independent expenditures should be protected with the same vigor as individual political speech. Much of the future Court opinion in Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission relied on the same arguments raised in Bellotti. [edit]Supreme Court tenure. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_F._Powell,_Jr.

[-] 0 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Organize.

[-] -1 points by Stormcrow1 (-25) 1 year ago

Wait a darn minuite. Are you serious when you say "in the past this kind of trouble was saved by government spending"?

What in the hell did he do with the 6 trillion that we are now obligated to pay?

Ops, I forgot it's Bushes fault.

Obama has brainwashed the youth of this country into thinking that he is their saviour and the republicans are evil. That could be further from the truth.

I made this comment on an earlier post - subscribe to Time magazine and it will open your eyes and educate you as to what the hell this country is dealing with when it comes to Obama.

[-] 3 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

Specifically - of the 212 accomplishments listed, can you tell me EXACTLY how willard would have done a better job on just ten of them.

[-] -2 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Theres been over 4 Trillion in stimulus spending. Thats why Wall ST is at all time highs.

You are protesting wall st and backing the guy who is helping wall st.

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

I believe the stimulus was $785B, a third for unemployment/state assistance, a third for business tax relief, and middleclass tax relief (expired now),and a third in investment in green tech and other industry.

So what are you adding to this. The Fed actions? That's a littledifferent.

[+] -4 points by eviltrillionaire (-146) 1 year ago

There is no "was". Because no budget was passed for the past four years, the $787 Billion stimulus has been structurally built in to the budget every year since 2009, because of the government's baseline budgeting. That's right. That same amount has been spent again every year since.

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

No it hasn't. You are confused.

[-] -2 points by eviltrillionaire (-146) 1 year ago

Never let it be said that facts and logic can penetrate your idiot skull.

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

You LIE!!!

[+] -5 points by eviltrillionaire (-146) 1 year ago

"One of the games played by Democrats under this law is the passage of stimulus bills. When a stimulus is passed, it adds immediately to the budget baseline for that year and then for every succeeding year. So the Obama-Pelosi-Reid stimulus passed in 2009 added $787 billion of new spending to the federal budget in 2009. It then went on to add $834 billion of new spending in 2010 ($787 billion times 1.06 for the 6% yearly increase); $884 billion in 2011; and finally $937 billion in 2012. Over the last four years, this totals $3,442 billion more than would have been budgeted through the normal process -- which is precisely why the Democrats wanted it passed as a stimulus.

Since Harry Reid's Democratic majority in the Senate has consistently refused to pass a budget for nearly three years, the continuing resolutions have simply maintained the yearly automatic 6% increase in spending, leading to the enormous budget deficits of the Obama years."

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2012/10/congress_baseline_budgeting_and_fraud.html

[-] 4 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

Ever heard of the TVA? WPA? CCC?
Lincoln's rail roads ?
Ikes's interstates ?

as long as WE let the Rs sit in the house & block the actions we need,
our progress will be very slow
as long as WE let Harry Reid keep the filibuster & block the actions we need,
our progress will be very slow


Those who can't - rant
Those who can - DO
.
If you really want something done -
let your senators and congresspeople
know what you want done.
.
Even if you do not know their names
you can call them at 202-224-3121
.
write to US House , Washington DC 20515
write to US Senate , Washington DC 20510
.
each member has their own website for email


[-] -3 points by eviltrillionaire (-146) 1 year ago

Ever heard of a country's currency going to zero because so much of it is created out of thin air? That ain't progress, pal.

Would you like to bring wheelbarrows of money to the store just to buy some groceries? What do you think happened in Germany and Argentina when they printed cash into oblivion? BTW, the first ones to get hurt when that happens ARE THE 99%.

The laws of economics don't change just because you want what there isn't enough money in the whole world for.

[-] 4 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

the facts are that America is where everyone in the world wants to invest
America can borrow at around 2% and invest in JOBS
America can make sure that no corporation PAYS less than 20%
FYI- Lincoln ran the Civil War and the railroads got built
FDR created the WPA & CCC & TVA and there were no wheelbarrows of money

you seemed to have learned your paranoid scare tactics from the likes of ayn rand, rand paul, and wayne lapierre

try reading some of Paul Krugman - a Nobel economist

[-] -1 points by RwOrn (-290) from Berkeley, CA 1 year ago

paul krugman= noble idiot.

[-] -2 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

People are investing in the BRIC countries, including your own governement, incase you havent noticed.

I see you are still shilling for Bernake. Nice job as usual.

[+] -4 points by eviltrillionaire (-146) 1 year ago

The facts are, you're economically illiterate.

Yes, I'll read the guy who thinks we should fake an alien invasion to stimulate the economy?

No thanks, dipshit.

[-] 4 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 1 year ago

explain it to us et ..... explain to us The laws of economics....

[-] 0 points by eviltrillionaire (-146) 1 year ago

In a sentence... "Nothing is free."

[-] 4 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 1 year ago

no.... u mean... you are not free

[-] -2 points by eviltrillionaire (-146) 1 year ago

Nothing is free. An economic concept you don't seem to be able to grasp.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

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Do you have a TROLL problem?

here are some of its “tells” ►
attacking the poster - not the post
"re-interpreting" the post rather than quoting it ( ala faux noose )
using a gross generalization to “prove” a specific
lying [ often obviously ]
changing the subject
using mccarthyite accusations
afraid to answer questions


you could buy a mongoose or a roach motel, but here is a better way: ……………………………………….TROLL solution ►
……………………………………….IGNORE ANY POSTS FROM THE TROLL


[-] 0 points by eviltrillionaire (-146) 1 year ago

Ben, are you paid by the DNC or do you do this for free?

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Wrong!!! It was only spent once! Stop spewing false republican talking points.

It's laughable and pathetic.

[-] -3 points by eviltrillionaire (-146) 1 year ago

The stimulus is structurally built into the federal budget with a 6% increase in the amount every year as cited above.

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

I disagree.

[-] -3 points by Nationwide (-93) 1 year ago

Government spending hasn't helped us the past 5 years and didn't help us in the 30's. Your wacko ideas just cause more unemployment and your rookie in the WH doesn't know what to do. So if government spending worked in the 30's what happened in '38. Why didn't it work now. How come we are not where your government economist said we would be. Don't forget you had a Democrat controlled congress.

The shame of it is that you want to stick the people back under your thumb. Hall hail Obama.

[-] 7 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 1 year ago

that looks like an honest question....

  • well to put it simply.... we crashed the world economy by allowing organized corruption to rob the people....
  • we stopped the collapse of the financial world thru the stimulus ... passing those costs off to the public...
  • then once that was done.... the gov continues to refuse to pass any kind of stimulus for the bankrupt middle class....
  • that is the main reason there are no jobs... because there is not capital available for us to build new jobs....
  • while... I am pissed at Obama over the wars, monsato, drones.. etc...
  • he still is the only one out there aside from the independents who IS trying to help the middle class....imo
[-] 3 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Exactly, this list represents small successes, slow progress on the issues occupy has taken a stand on.

I submit we support these efforts, & continue agitating all pols, for real progress.

Identify, denounce, & retire any pol who works against these efforts.

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

What middle class? 75% of American workers make less than $50,000 a year.

http://www.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/netcomp.cgi?year=2011

What has Obama done to help the middle class?

[-] -1 points by Stormcrow1 (-25) 1 year ago

I am really sorry but I hate to disagree with you about "Obama trying to help the middle class".

If that was the case then the middle class would have already been helped - he was in charge for two years during his first term.

All he was concerned about was getting a "legacy" for himself by passing the Obamacare Bill.

He smoozed the middle class with his "captivating speeches" while at the same time shitting on them and catering to the wealthy.

Look at what's going on today. If he was really that concerned about the people of this country he would have found a way to keep the capital open to visitors.

But he wants to demonize and make everyone think that those who let the sequester pass are evil and rich.

There is a lot of shit going on with his administration that no one ever hears - he has received millions in donations from big business but you won't hear about it in the news.

Yet he likes to say that the republicans are the ones who are for big business.

Take some time and pull up past issues of Time magazine and you will be surprised on how much shit that he does is going under the radar when it comes to news reporting. And that includes HC providers

[-] 3 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 1 year ago

SC, why don't you summarize all that with source links for us... and post it as a thread... thx

[-] -1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

How is helping to destroy our food supply, giving wall st trillions and now 85billion a month, killing people overseas and spending a fuck ton to do it, allowing the banking fraud to continue, helping ANYONE?

[-] 3 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 1 year ago

???? are u replying to my comment ???? ... if so.... what ??? r u talking about ????

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

He can't respond to the specific items in your post because they obviously represent progress (small perhaps) on many issues occupy has taken a stand on.

So he has to distract with republican talking points. As you probably know he is never happier than when he is engaged in partisan Obama bashing.

Kinda pathetic really.

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Obviously the recovery is still weak because of the depth of the Bush great recession (largest economic downturn since great depression), and the traitorous republican obstruction of every jobs proposal presented, as well as other treasonous republican sabotage of the recovery.

But despite their best effort, we are slowly emerging from the republican destruction of the world economy.

Right?

[-] -1 points by Stormcrow1 (-25) 1 year ago

Just can't get off the "Bush blame". Well I disagree - the GDP in this country has been flat around 2% at best since Obama took office. What does that tell you.

The government isn't shoring up the economy as apparent by what's going on today.

The stock market is not reflective of the economly - for if it was everyone that wants to work would be working and they would be making a decent wage.

No, Bush is not at fault - it's the people of this country who did what they weren't supposed to do - spend themselves into submission and when they got laid off they couldn't pay up.

But hey, who am I to place blame on individuals with college degrees who don't have a lick of sense when it comes to being financially responsible. It is they who have to suffer the consequences of their actions and want to blame Bush. Stupid is as stupid does.

Oh and by the way the Obimination wants to start this shit up again - he commented that there are hugh amounts of people whom are being left out of the housing market and wants to go back to what was done before the bust with the government, or should I say taxpayers, footing the bill should they default.

But I guess we can blame Bush for that if it does happen can't we.

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Facts are facts, Low GDP is a result of the Bush great recession. At least it ain't -9% like it was when ush crashed the world economy with his ase the banksters.

"The people.... spend into submission... laid off.... couldn't pay"??????

Wow. Bushes bankster base defrauded millions of decent hard working homeowners, then screwed the economy with bad ratings, bundling bad loans, and halting lending, demanded taxpayer bailouts (mugged, extorted us) and created the worse unemployment crises since the great depression and the lay offs you mentioned.

This post lists dozens of bank fines/settlements for fraud and other illegal activity.

You can stand with the greedy selfish, criminal banksters who got away with the loot, I stand with the decent hard working American homeowners who lost everything because of these con jobs.

That's what it means to support the 99%.

You have no honor.

[-] -2 points by Stormcrow1 (-25) 1 year ago

Hey, the government slackened restrictions, and the people responded - the I and me first generation.

No one held a gun to their head to "sign on the dotted line". I don't have a tollerence for people who are stupid and don't want to work themselves out of the hole they put themselves in.

There are a lot of slackers out there who are doing just that - they want a free ride because of their stupidity.

[-] 3 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

It wasn't the borrowers you fuckin moron!!! It was corrupt banksters. Follow the goddamn money, they got away with it, the borrowers lost everything.

This is the post I refer you to. Read through the many links and you may understand and stop speaking up for the criminals against your own class.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/wall-st-criminal-bastards-dont-let-anyone-claim-th/

[-] -1 points by Stormcrow1 (-25) 1 year ago

Well if "it wasn't the borrowers" who failed on their promise to pay the loan who was it - the guy next door?

Just because someone offers a person something that is too true to be good does that person have to agree to it - or must we conclude that that individual is dumb as a rock because they signed on the dotted line.

Typical attitude - blame others for ones own failures - that is the new American Way.

[-] 3 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

The banks are responsible for verifying borrowers can afford the loan. We call them underwriters. And banks have been found to have defrauded millions of borrowers. The settlements are continuing.

Read the post I linked and you might learn something.