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Forum Post: To Where From Here

Posted 7 months ago on Aug. 28, 2013, 9:45 a.m. EST by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

There Will Be Blood

It appears that Occupy, as a force for the public good, is all but gone now, with but few isolated pockets of resistance left to oppose the tyranny and subjugation that grows in our midst, imposed by one percent scum and their lackeys and lapdogs.

Yet things have not gotten better and there remains much to be done. The United States Post Office still remains burdened by crippling legislative fiat, one move among manny to privatize every aspect of government service. The sequester remains unresolved while the poorest of this nation watch government assistance for their children come to an end, the future of college education comes with a promise to the bankster elite that one day soon, they will reap billions in interest on educational debt.

That is, of course, unless Global Warming produces such economic uncertainty that people cease with debt altogether. And about this possibility there remains widespread denial among repelican party ranks.

Such a state of affairs, in the wake of the demise of organizations such as OWS, cannot be resolved but by violence. It is an unfortunate reality but I see no other course left to the American people.

This is so because those that do seek our total subjugation are afflicted with a most severe malady, one for which there is no cure, one that says to the sufferer: I am entitled and therefore all other forms of entitlement are bad. It is a malady that insists: I am so entitled that there is no lie, there is nothing that is not permitted in the maintenance of my own social status

It is a malady that insists:

Anything that does not reflect that sense of entitlement of riches and social status on my behalf must be cut off

It is the disease of greed and for it there is no cure.

Against the backdrop of an elite class so blinded by disease there comes this undeniable economic reality: The planet and its resources are finite. There is only so much wealth to go around. With well over 15 percent of the fruit of human productivity in the hands of but few individuals, there scarcely remain sufficient resources left to the rest of us upon which we may survive, and yet this elite seeks ever new ways to siphon even the lint from our pockets - that no small remnant be overlooked.

Such individuals will not relinquish the levers of power on their own. Their hands must be removed from these levers by force. Soon it will be clear that even the most blatant of falsehoods will in no way be relinquished. To them these elites will cling with all of the desperation of one who is drowning. Even from the most repugnant of devices, the hands of the elite will not let go and must be severed.

Were there enough good men and women, of integrity and fortitude, remaining among the institutions of democracy, such that facts could be made clear and sufficient curbs put in place against these sorely afflicted; then perhaps some other course might be possible. But the compromise of such institutions, as with contagion, does seem to preclude any other alternatives.

Upon the neck of the .001 % the axe must fall

.

Mussolini

.


.

A case in point:

.

Consider carefully: Three Kings were slain before the public with an assassins bullet. Two of them were named Kennedy. Now there exists among the marbled halls of power a McCarthy for every state, a public megaphone for every McCarthy, and a court system content to facilitate the delegation of Congressional authority to the private sector.

Whether or not violence is the only answer today is not the question: the question is, is there anyone positioned in the right place, today, to stop this inexorable slide upon which we are embarked and which can only end in such civil unrest and violent bloodshed as will make the events of Greece seem tame by comparison.

Men like Murdoch have thrown down a gauntlet - they can not do otherwise. They believe and so act as if they are entitled and so, as Murdoch himself as been quoted, they say: Fuck you and fuck your mother.

To this society has at this time no clear response. It is uncertain that our institutions will extricate themselves from their current state of compromise such that an appropriate response may be made.

If we are to remain free, a response must be made. Not just to Murdoch, but to every individual in our midst who would behave like him. Once we produced antitrust laws. Men like Murdoch have assisted in their evisceration. It is a cause toward which they are impelled and against which society must provide constraint.

Whatever constraints we have devised over the course of the past 200 years are proving insufficient.

Soon individuals of courage and of conviction will rise. They will rise and cut off that hand that would enslave all of humanity and do so for no other reason beyond greed and vanity.

there will be blood

.



Shadz provided this link, I would hate to see it get lost. Moyers sayz pretty much what I just said, only he does so with a great deal more patience and kindness than I have . . .

165 Comments

165 Comments


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[-] 6 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 7 months ago

Hey all...missed ya....i havnt had net access for a while....anyway.. I do not believe that violence is the quickest path to success.... We are....all of us...at the fork in the road.

The answers lay in creation....construction...and elevation of human conciousness... And taking the power away from those who abuse it..

This process of power shift is already underway....

Occupy can help speed it up by supporting the advancement of state Owned banks.... direct democracy... social capital....and a federal level social reserve bank....

[-] 4 points by windyacres (1002) 7 months ago

"taking the power away from those who abuse it.."

This process must happen sooner, good to see you back.

[-] 4 points by trashyharry (788) from Waterville, NY 7 months ago

OWS certainly APPEARS to be inactive-or 'dead'-I will tell you now that appearances can be completely deceptive.I don't think #OWS is dead,but I would agree that the Wealthy Elites are about to discover the pain and humiliation of hanging from lamp posts naked,beat to a pulp and dead if they're lucky.The job of #OWS was to not have it get that ugly,but the W.E's didn't take a shine to #OWS,really.Easy way or hard way-"There is absolutely NO WAY to stop an idea whose time has come."

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

that is the sum and substance of my point. thanks.

[-] 4 points by trashyharry (788) from Waterville, NY 7 months ago

ZD-my favorite picture of all time is Mussolini,Petacci,et.al.,hanging from the gas station awning.When I was a Mean Young Anarchist I used to pass out prints of it on Wall Street.They would not listen then and won't now.Their rejection of #OWS-a nice,peaceful group of respectable people was very stupid and the Wealthy Elite absolutely will regret it,and fairly soon.

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

Interesting. Perhaps I can find a copy of this print online . . .

[-] 3 points by trashyharry (788) from Waterville, NY 7 months ago

They won't listen.They believe the illusion that they themselves created to deceive others.As far as violence and requests to "not mention it,"-is that not helping to maintain the illusion?Out here where people actually have to sink or swim,the idea of killing all the rich people does NOT shock people at all.The idea is being discussed,by ordinary people-whose lives are becoming impossible,because other solutions are one by one being made impossible-by the.001% themselves.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

I believe you are correct, they will not, they cannot, listen.

It remains to be seen if perhaps there are good men and women in positions of power who may yet find themselves galvanized to action on the basis of a new perspective concerning our common plight.

IF it turns out that it is too late, then the case must be made all the same, just as it was as this nation severed it's connection with the colonial power that gave it birth.

[-] 3 points by trashyharry (788) from Waterville, NY 7 months ago

Insults piled upon injuries can't possibly lead to a bright future.I have been talking to people about all of this for a very long time indeed.Now ALL of the things I and others have predicted have come to pass...and it is WAY different living it instead of talking about it.The misery I see every day is just terrifying.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

it cannot, it will not, continue indefinitely.

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[-] 1 points by trashyharry (788) from Waterville, NY 7 months ago

Those who fail to learn from history are condemned to repeat it.The American People have not changed one single bit from the time when they tore down all those houses back in 1765.The house demolitions aren't the worst things they did,either.They ran a lot of wealthy Tories out of the country,including half of my family,who ran for their lives in 1770...

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[-] 1 points by trashyharry (788) from Waterville, NY 7 months ago

An abundance of caution prevents me from clicking your link.You will have to excuse my grouchiness because my savings have been wiped out this summer by the simple effort of keeping a legal vehicle on the road so that family members could continue to go to work.It was close,though-all of our money was consumed by the repairs,and the vehicle STILL had to be driven without inspection stickers for a month.And we didn't get caught.If we had got caught,the ensuing series of traffic tickets would have completely buried us,with no way to dig out.So we dodged the bullet,but now we have got only 100usd left in savings.And that is only half of the vehicular problem solved.And we are among the lucky ones...sometimes I forget that.

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[-] 2 points by trashyharry (788) from Waterville, NY 7 months ago

Ronald Reagan outlawed lemonade 30 years ago.Right around the time when everybody stopped getting the raise they earned by increasing their productivity.I have been drinking plain old water for longer than that,and dreading the inevitable day when all water drinking becomes illegal.You and your ilk will be just fine as long as parasitic blood drinking remains legal-as it surely will for awhile yet.

[-] -3 points by Viking2001 (-97) 7 months ago

Your last name isn't Joad, is it?

[-] 0 points by trashyharry (788) from Waterville, NY 7 months ago

Sadly,I don't have a name.Too poor.I do live way out in the country,though.And we may be poor,but we make our own fun.Such as hanging up signs all over informing the public which way to go to find a-hole TP's like you so they won't have to wonder where the f'kkers are hiding at that are well worth robbing-just in case any inquiring minds might want to know.Oh-and whenever,if ever the day comes when eggs are selling for 1usd each-if they can be found-I will be more than happy to tell the likes of you and your starving family we ain't got none & GTF off my property or take the consequences.LOL &c...

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 7 months ago

And therein lies the growing popularity by state and fed for domestic drone use.

[-] 1 points by trashyharry (788) from Waterville, NY 7 months ago

It won't work.None of that stuff will work,because there is nothing-absolutely NOTHING that can stop an idea whose time has come.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 7 months ago

It will help them get to sleep at night............for awhile.

[-] -2 points by Narley (-634) 7 months ago

Sure it can be stopped. Ideas whose time has come get stopped all the time. Jeesh, go sleep it off. Violence won't work. The people will turn on you, Even your friends will abandon you when the violence starts.

Peace is the only way.

[-] 4 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

Those who make economic and political reform impossible make violent revolution inevitable.

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[-] 1 points by trashyharry (788) from Waterville, NY 7 months ago

On the evening of August 26,1765,after a day of rumors that local Customs officials would be attacked,a bonfire was lighted on King Street and a great crowd gathered shouting "liberty and property," which...was.."the usual notice of their intention to plunder and pull down a house."The mob actually had several houses in mind...it divided into two groups and each repaired to a different house.One went to the residence of Charles Paxton,the Marshal of the vice admiralty court,only to discover that he had rented the place.(The tenant)offered to treat them to a barrel of punch at a nearby tavern,an offer which was accepted.Now,full of liquid and patriotic spirits,the mob moved to William Story's house.Story was the deputy registrar of the vice admiralty court and evidently an unpopular man.The cry went up to kill Story,but he had escaped;the mob destroyed what it found within...Meanwhile,the second mob had surged to the house of Benjamin Hallowell,the comptroller of Customs.The beauty of Hallowell's house may have provided...an inducement to do a thorough job...the crowd left it in a a shambles...windows and doors smashed,furniture broken wainscotting pulled off,books and papers scattered...and the wine cellar consumed...The prize...was the house of Thomas Hutchinson...Hutchinson and his family were eating supper...rather uneasily...The family left just ahead of the mob...(Hutchinson)...eluded...pursuers only by running through...backyards to safety.The mob took its time on the house...everything movable within was destroyed or stolen...The handsome cupola was chopped off,a demolition which took three hours,and much of the slate roof was pulled down.Daybreak found the mob still at work;a part of the roof still survived,and a couple of brick walls still stood...The opposition to the Stamp Act had expressed itself rather forcefully...

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[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago
[-] 4 points by Ache4Change (3025) 7 months ago

Never Give Up! Go Occupy! Take heart and remember that you're not alone or a loan :)

http://www.shareable.net/blog/99-the-occupy-wall-street-collaborative-film

Please don't allude to violence as it's very counter productive and exactly what the 1% want to hear.

[-] 4 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

the maintenance of their wealth depends upon a great deal of social stability. They demand greater wealth, and do so to such degree that they erode public support for those institutions that help provide for that social stability.

They do so deliberately, with rumors, lies, and innuendo.

They do so deliberately, by seeking the means to defund such systems and agencies.

They do this last knowing full well that the resources of the planet are finite, and that rather than provide financial support for social stability, they see that as wealth that is better off in their own pocket.

There will be blood.

They have only themselves to blame.

[-] 2 points by Ache4Change (3025) 7 months ago

I can hear what you say clearly but we must 'Honour Dr. King's Revolutionary Vision By Fighting For It' - http://www.nationofchange.org/honor-dr-king-s-revolutionary-vision-fighting-it-1377525809 and I strongly recommend this 'NoC' article to you. Never Lose Heart At A Continuance Of Their Old 1% System For Now! Occupy Our 99% Future! Solidarity.

[-] 3 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

I have nothing but tremendous respect and admiration for the Reverend Doctor. That will not change the current facts. Despite the progress that has been made there are those in power who insist on the maintenance of social division on the basis of race, racial stereotyping, racial segregation, and racism. They use economic policy to create or to maintain the possibility of these social divisions, and then they use every single rhetorical device at their disposal to make these kinds of social divisions the social reality.

These people will not relinquish power on their own.

They must be made to do so.

If it is not done by legislative fiat, then nothing remains.

And this is not a public that will accept subjugation willingly. Once their situation is abundantly clear, there will be no other course.

  • there will be blood.
[-] -1 points by forourfutures (393) 7 months ago

Consider, they don't think we can control ourselves, so they will do it for us. Chances are, you object because they are going to be using overkill, me too.

You are right about their lifestyle depending on us, so they can't kill us all. We can hope monsatan doesn't clone slaves for them.

The real problem is that IF we can control ourselves, we can control them. That they cannot stand and would rather die. They want to go down in glorious wealth and opulence to the last moment. Sick, and some of them know it.

All we have to do is show we can control ourselves, and those will join us.

You will only understand that by reading between the lines. I've only said a lot, not everything.

[-] 3 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

they care nothing about whether we may control ourselves or not. Their primary concern is whether or not we are profitable . . .

[-] 1 points by forourfutures (393) 7 months ago

If we control ourselves for our interests, we are less profitable. They care very much that we do not have that kind of control.

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

and with every single buyout our choices become fewer. Will you participate in the telecommunications revolution? Then you will be tracked, 24/7, and you will even have the privilege of paying for it.

Thus will your habits be known, your identity dissected, your wants and your needs carefully weighed and measured to such extent that nothing will remain unknown and in sum you and all that you are may be sold on the open market like any other commodity . . .

and profit will be made, whether you will or no . . .

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 7 months ago

[-] 5 points by ZenDog (17098) from South Burlington, VT 1 hour ago

sayz the fruitloop with minus three points . . . (end quote)

Nice to know you care....

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

there aren't that many of us here, and more than half of us are here on behalf of someone else, I'm quite sure.

no, I really don't give a shit.

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 7 months ago

And yet you care. I see what did there.

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

there are currently about 314 million citizens in the U.S.

On average, 5.3 people are murdered every year for every 100,000 people in the U.S.

.

That's 16,642 homicides, every single year.

On average.

.

And not one international bankster, not one Wall Street Fraudster . . .

.

of course I care

.

[-] -1 points by forourfutures (393) 7 months ago

Cmon' lets work to control the 1%. Not worried about their spying.

So there's no hope huh? The profit will be made no matter what? No point in trying to control ourselves in that case-we can never control them no matter what-Is that your message?

[-] 5 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

My point is that this is war. This is a war the middle class has been loosing for four decades or more. It is a slow, a patient, a very cold, war. When the housing bubble burst the equitable, the sensible decision would have been to bail out those mortgages that were under water through fraud perpetrated by the banks.

Instead the banks were bailed out, the foreclosures continued, and the economy contracted with a bitter cinch around the neck of the middle class and the poor. The movement of luxury in the marketplace of comfort saw but a brief hiccup as the economy created a million? three million? new homeless Americans.

This is war.

As such we must understand where we are if we are to see what, if any, opportunities exist.

If we are to respond, before it is too late to craft any kind of rational, civilized, response then we must understand the need for organization, for discipline, we must understand our enemy, identify their weakness, and attack. We must not stop until our enemy is no more.

[-] 0 points by forourfutures (393) 7 months ago

War or law? Violations of it. Our law. We can dominate the elite with our law! All we have to is agree on its highest principles.

What we have is not war. It is a class economic conflict. Will you abandon peace and lawful revolution for blood and death?

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

sure, sure

and the fraudsters get no jail time and a nice big check

  • without Justice

  • There Will Be No Peace

and I'll tell you the truth, I would be quite happy to see the lot of the muther fukers DEAD, after all of the harm they have done to our economy, our reputation, and the middle class, I really don't think death is an unreasonable punishment.

But no

Instead they get to walk away scott free, and even keep not only their house, but their entire style of life.

That is an insult to every working citizen of the country - not to mention a complete travesty of Justice and an ugly stain upon the banking industry as a whole.

[-] 0 points by forourfutures (393) 7 months ago

We shall have to make justice, and we can do it peacefully.

The people have allowed mass power to gather secretly for a long time as they were comfortably divided. There is a price for being lulled into confused complacency.

[-] 3 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

We shall have to make justice

exactly

As to whether it may be done peacefully or not, time will tell. I'm confident it won't be long, and the answer will be no. I do believe the answer will be no and I think the reason why is quite obvious - this has been a long time in coming. Where our nation is today is the result of some very careful and long term planning.

If you think the people who have brought us to this point, CATO, ALEC, the Koch brothers, Exxon and Monsanto - and everyone else - if you think they will just give up all that they have gained in terms of their hold over Congress, the media, and the international markets where they dominate to our harm

if you think they will just give all that up without a fight, if you perceive that any will exists in Congress to assist in such an endeavor that rise beyond 15 - 20 % of the membership -

  • then I say you are insane.

.

Somebody come teach this clown how to read the writing on the wall, will ya?

[-] 3 points by GirlFriday (21784) 7 months ago

Nah, he's intentionally obtuse which makes him a slimeball.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

yeah I know I was being rhetorical

but say - remind me again - what's the usual sentence for bank robbery, first offense? Seven to ten, something like that? Plus all of the perks of a felony jacket to go with it . . .

So . . . let's see . . . If I'm a CEO of a bank, and I engage in Fraud on a massive scale, involving hundreds of thousands of individuals whose life savings and reputations end up < * poof * > in smoke . . .

all I get is a big fine?

But wait!

What about Madoff? He Madoff with millions, and through FRAUD!

I see, I see. You simply cannot rob the rich.

And since we cannot rob the rich . . .

  • let us eat them.
[-] -2 points by Narley (-634) 7 months ago

I can’t prove you wrong any more than you can prove you’re right. As you said, It’s opinion. My opinion is any violence will be small and quelled quickly by law enforcement.

But for sake of argument let’s assume violence does break out. It most likely will be conservatives who are tired of the government overspending and providing welfare for millions of deadbeats and welfare queens. They’re tired of liberal programs and liberal politicians who just continue to take more and more from them and give it to others. People just can’t pay any more. And they blame liberals for the nation’s problems, not the 1%.

Don’t be too quick to discount this conservative force. These folks are hard working, tax paying members of the real 99%. They make up about half the population, and about 80 million of them own guns. This anger is a factor in why AR15 rifles are so popular. The anger on this site is nothing compared to some of the conservative forums, especially gun forums. These people are ready to take up arms and itching to fight. They have had enough of the liberals who they see as the real enemy of the US.

So, I think your opinion that some type of liberal uprising because some folks think the 1% are bad is fantasy.

[+] -4 points by Narley (-634) 7 months ago

Oh good grief, Don't tell me your with Zen on proposing violence as a solution. I seriously give you more credit than that. Zen is dead wrong on this. Advocating violence is not a solution. You should be thumping Zen for such unethical and crazy talk.

[-] 5 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

sayz the fruitloop with minus three points . . .

  • Those who make economic and political reform impossible make violent revolution inevitable.

That isn't advocacy, simply a statement of reality. The other half is simply my opinion - This is where we are, today.

But you are more than welcome to prove me wrong. Go ahead. Please. Do.

Prove me wrong.

Straighten all this out without violence. Without bloodshed. Go ahead.

But wait though - how many bled at Freedom Square . . . or does that even count? Should we just start over? You want to start over? We can start over.

Go ahead. Consider this day one. You put the one percent back in their place and return the nations government and its economy to the people. Without violence. Without bloodshed.

Day one. Clocks tickin. I'll check back with you next week to see how you are doing . . .

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (21784) 7 months ago

FFS, Narley, he's telling you where it is heading .

[-] -1 points by forourfutures (393) 7 months ago

The majority, if it will form around the principles of America, will take what is needed from those corps etc. you respect and fear so much. Congress has no chance if Americans enable their definition of constitutional intent.

Media as we know it can be crushed and extinguished by our needs, if we can show that constitutional intent respects them.

You are selling out.

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

you don't read so well, do ya . . .

[-] 0 points by forourfutures (393) 7 months ago

"the people are the rightful masters of the congress and the courts". Lincoln 1859. He can only be referring to Article V. I read okay.

Can you consider forming unity around the principles of freedom, justice, equality and open government? That is all that is asked of you besides standing with other human Americans to secure the principles.

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[-] 5 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

You have such great standing as a member of OWS that you have to have a new id every time you show up here?

I'm not attempting to coopt anything. I'm simply stating the facts as I see them. OWS had an excellent position at the outset, one that it was not able to capitalize. That is a very sad development, but if my assessment is accurate then there is no point lamenting what is not now possible via a vehicle that no longer exists.

and you are nothing but one more one percent lacky stabbing the public in the back.

[-] 2 points by trashyharry (788) from Waterville, NY 7 months ago

I believe that #OWS does exist,and that it is part of The Solution.This will eventually become clearer.At the moment,the country is like a tinderbox-the spark that causes a general conflagration probably won't come from #OWS.It will probably come from a violent confrontation between the FBI and a group of super radical TP-Sovereign Citizens holed up with guns and refusing to surrender.The FBI is totally unable to leave such tarbabies alone.Meanwhile,TPs are fully aware that the 1% is not paying their taxes;they are not the sort of people to continue to tolerate Taxation Without Representation.So they may well start some sort of tax revolt,and in that case,a confrontation would be inevitable.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

Those who make economic and political reform impossible make violent revolution inevitable.

[-] 2 points by trashyharry (788) from Waterville, NY 7 months ago

We do wish it were elsewise.I don't believe you are advocating violence.I certainly do not.The continued stonewalling of the 1% is causing the level of frustration to be so high that it is very frightening.It is said that Nemesis is invisible to those whose destiny it is to be destroyed by her...

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

I do not wish violence as the resolution, but what I will not do is advocate an acceptance of the yoke of bondage . . .

[-] 3 points by trashyharry (788) from Waterville, NY 7 months ago

HELL no.Perish the G-Damn thought.The 1% have turned their money into a weapon which they are using to try to beat us down entirely.They will soon find out that the Spirit of the American People will not be broken.

[-] -1 points by forourfutures (393) 7 months ago

What is wrong with a peaceful, lawful revolution which uses human agreement gaining the authority of Article V?

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

right . . . right . . . of course . . .

And the closer you get to the goal

the louder will become that din of confusion

Do what you like.

As for myself, I prefer the quiet.

[-] -1 points by forourfutures (393) 7 months ago

What is the matter with human agreement? Free speech exists to create it, or at least understanding. The environment of constitutional intent coming from Article V is filled with respect and understanding IF Americans are prepared.

Preparatory Amendment Before A General Article V Convention 1)End the abridging of free speech 2)Campaign finance reform 3)Secure the vote

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

End the abridging of free speech

you fukin idiot - can't you read?

Do I look dead to you?

How about incarcerated? Do I look like I'm incarcerated? Do I look like I'm on hunger strike at GITMO?

[-] 1 points by forourfutures (393) 7 months ago

Preferences loose when challenging instincts, especially survival. It's only matter of time before accepting the confusion will not be an option.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

yeah-ya

that's what I said - and when that day arrives you will find they will still not relinquish the gains they have made

[-] 0 points by forourfutures (393) 7 months ago

You keep talking about "them" and won't give up. We can't worry about that . We need to focus on taking what we need. If we do that, what they "want" is going to change, not given up, change.

Article V has the power to restore justice from the powerful to the people if need be.

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[-] -1 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 7 months ago

I think the ability of a handful of people to impact the mass media was a huge success.

The only thing that stopped us was more people didnt turn out. The power is in the numbers.

With enough numbers, the Dems and Reps wouldnt have been able to shut it down.

Yes, GA;s can be a pain in the ass. Does general come after announcements, work groups present and discuss or just present, etc etc etc. But thats to be expected.

But the overall energy was ELECTRIC. A feeling that simply cannot be manufactured, a feeling of empowerment.

Whose Streets? Our Streets! Whose Streets? Our Streets!

Self governance is hard work. Its no reason to give up though.

[-] 3 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

you stupid bitch

this is war

Organization, discipline, planning, knowing the enemy. We could have brought repelicans to their knees - which means we would have owned Congress.

You are either One Dumb Sun of a BITCH

or an repelican agent provocateur run by Carl with a K

And given that I remember you rather well from the early days, my money is on the latter. I think you're a liar and one percent crier for hire

fukin scumbag

[-] -2 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 7 months ago

Well, people like you were certainly part of the problem, thats for sure.

"We could have brought repelicans- how mature- to their knees."

The only problem with that strategy is that is only applied to about 15% of the population.

If it were the key to everything, then the DNC would have no problem creating their own movement, right?

You simply dont understand the mindset of the general population.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

I'm not talking about the population you stupid fuk. I'm talking about Congress. You subversive mutherfukers should be shot. you Koch Sucker. Crush the repelican party and you can pretty much do whatever you want with Congress. It should be easy. They are a bunch of LIARS - JUST LIKE YOU.

I bet it was you who convinced the kids in Burlington to move the GA and not say shit to me about it. Nice one. Not that I give a shit. They couldn't even hijack the ass end of a Dragon Parade without someone to show them how.

fukyou

[-] -1 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 7 months ago

Holy shit all three of you are on here this morning.

Ya, I traveled to Burlington to tell them to move it and not tell you. But that is funny though. Perhaps your obsession with killing the right did that, not mine. They were prob just sick of boomers showing up mumbling about Republicans when the problem is

Much deeper than that.

You need to be talking about the general population. They need to be shook from their slumber.

[-] 3 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

They need to be shook from their slumber.

Yup, maybe they do. Is it requisite to institute the changes that are necessary to preserve our freedom and democracy?

  • no

But we were well on the way to providing that vital public service you call AWAKENING -

  • and then some stupid fuk tried to hijack a Union March and make it about OWS - RATHER THAN PARTNERSHIP AND TEAM WORK IT BECAME ALL ABOUT MEEE

and once those newly awakened saw that they said no shit - the more things change, the more they stay the same and they began turning away.

And it was scumbags like you who helped make that happen.

nice job.

So did carl with a K shake your hand personally for all your good work or what? Cuz I'd like ta cut that hand off and mount it on the wall . . . with a railroad spike . . . Just because I especially like the symbolism, with its oblique reference to Anti-Trust . . .

you anti-trust-worthy piece of shit

[-] 0 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 7 months ago

Its a just liiiiiiitle bit deeper than that ZD.

[-] 3 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

yeah? really?

I don't give a shit if you are a cop, dip shit. Conservatives suck no matter what uniform they wear.

you make me sick. I've got chores. fuk off.

[-] 2 points by shooz (26738) 7 months ago

The deepest roots of all!

http://www.rickscottwatch.blogspot.com/

Lose your FEAR.

Follow the money, follow the roots.

How long has it been going on down there?

http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/31/us/florida-boys-graves/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

A long, long time, and you've never said a word.

[-] 2 points by shooz (26738) 7 months ago

Community.

look here.

To see who really screwed yours up.

http://www.rickscottwatch.blogspot.com/

Will FEAR prevent you from looking and admitting it, once again?

PS.....Mumbling my ass, you've shown proof after proof.........You just won't look.

It's not on your gangs agenda to do so.

[-] 3 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

Consider carefully: Three Kings were slain before the public with an assassins bullet. Two of them were named Kennedy. Now there exists among the marbled halls of power a McCarthy for every state, a public megaphone for every McCarthy, and a court system content to facilitate the delegation of Congressional authority to the private sector.

Whether or not violence is the only answer today is not the question: the question is, is there anyone positioned in the right place, today, to stop this inexorable slide upon which we are embarked and which can only end in such civil unrest and violent bloodshed as will make the events of Greece seem tame by comparison.

Men like Murdoch have thrown down a gauntlet - they can not do otherwise. They believe and so act as if they are entitled and so, as Murdoch himself as been quoted, they say: Fuck you and fuck your mother.

To this society has at this time no clear response. It is uncertain that our institutions will extricate themselves from their current state of compromise such that an appropriate response may be made.

If we are to remain free, a response must be made. Not just to Murdoch, but to every individual in our midst who would behave like him. Once we produced antitrust laws. Men like Murdoch have assisted in their evisceration. It is a cause toward which they are impelled and against which society must provide constraint.

Whatever constraints we have devised over the course of the past 200 years are proving insufficient.

Soon individuals of courage and of conviction will rise. They will rise and cut off that hand that would enslave all of humanity and do so for no other reason beyond greed and vanity.

  • there will be blood
[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 7 months ago

good rhythm to speech

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

fuk me? fuk my mother?

As you may plainly see, that is not my will.

  • There Will Be Blood
[-] 2 points by shadz66 (17813) 7 months ago

The thing is, there's blood sucking going on already, all day and every day, by the Parasitic, Vampiric, Predators !!! There's blood already ... and we're being drained dry !! You need to see this ... but please have a cooling drink to hand !

e tenebris, lux ...

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

thanks for sharing. That's kinda what I said, only . . . kinder . . .

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (17813) 7 months ago

No need to be too kind though : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwM-APF2ni4 !!

pax ...

[-] 3 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

yeah . . . see, I'd like ta stuff some concrete inside a long steel tube, throw some fins on the back and give it a guidance chip, and shove the damn thing right up Assad's ass.

That would be the end of that conflict.

[-] 2 points by trashyharry (788) from Waterville, NY 7 months ago

LOL-a reminder to those who will be obliged to show up-"It doesn't matter what you do-as long as you look good doing it-choose your clothes with care,and expect the unexpected when dining out."

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

that sounds like a fortune cookie . . .

[-] 4 points by trashyharry (788) from Waterville, NY 7 months ago

LOL-Tar & Feathers=fashion faux pas!

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

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[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

there will be blood

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 7 months ago

Ive been thinking about this and my stand against Violence.... but in some support of zd's posistion...i do believe Some good old fashion "Tar and Feathering" might be in order

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

there will be blood

[-] 1 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 7 months ago

Great movie! If it didn't make big oil (major share holders in Hollywood) look like a pack of rapacious bastards it probably would have won an Oscar.

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

Daniel Day Lewis is a great actor, isn't he?

[-] 1 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 7 months ago

yes he and Bill Murray are favs

Fav Directors: Mike Nichols, Sofia Coppola, Wes Anderson, and paul Anderson: http://letterboxd.com/xarnis/list/the-films-of-paul-thomas-anderson-ranked-1/

1.) fav Hal Hartley: http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplaylist/the-essentials-the-films-of-hal-hartley [no such thing, etc]

[-] 0 points by JPB950 (2254) 7 months ago

It's gone as far as it can with the idea of awakening the public. It's simply time to grow, develop new methods, and work out a way to expand.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

Good luck with that.

[-] 0 points by JPB950 (2254) 7 months ago

The alternative is to give up. If not Occupy itself, then some elements from it that are willing to go on. Look at some of the successful groups, both the opposition and those that share a commitment to a better world.

It may be time to make additions to simple agitation and demonstration and add lobbying and efforts to elect good people to office. This wasn't ever going to be a struggle that would be won in a few years.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

I actually believe it could very well have been won in just a few years, had there been proper organization. If OWS had carefully managed its image and stayed on message with an uncompromising focus on peaceful confrontation of authority where ever it can quickly be seen to be shirking the public good, we could have changed everything.

[-] 0 points by JPB950 (2254) 7 months ago

Maybe, I always looked at it as a long process of changing the entire political landscape through the process. Either way mistakes were certainly made in the early stages.

I certainly agree that we'd be further along and that there wouldn't be this perception of stagnation, had there been better organization. There was unrest, but not at a high enough level to convince a majority to abandon the system we have. We're still a long way from any kind of revolution.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

and therein lies one of the fundamental misconceptions of OWS. We cannot sell a complete abandonment of the system, not without complete systemic failure and total chaos. It won't sell. And if it did, we would find it completely impossible to maintain social stability during the transition.

Some people are selfish. It is as simple as that. They not only practice selfishness but they teach that it is a virtue.

Because of this simple fact of human nature, the rule of law is necessary and anarchy is simply not feasible. The rule of law today is failing.

OWS set an impossible goal at the outset - any expectation that principles of anarchy are a viable method of governing a nation are not credible. Those who insist otherwise simply have not examined human nature in any detail whatsoever, let alone the behavior of those who are this very minute, implementing economic policies that will result in our subjugation.

[-] -1 points by JPB950 (2254) 7 months ago

In general I agree. I've said, and a few others have also, that there isn't really enough misery yet for any revolution to take hold. If there was one I'm not sure what kind of authority would come out of the chaos. An anarchistic government is very unlikely.

It might be possible to mold human nature, but that's going to take time. Before that can be done there needs to be moral people in positions of influence and leadership. As well as people fighting for better legislation. I have always held that Occupy, with groups in cities across the country, could have recruited good people to run for office in many Congressional districts and begun the process of change through legislation.

Where I do disagree is that violence is likely to be a response from the public at large. Maybe I misunderstood you and you feel it will be the reaction of a few, that is of course possible. The public at large however has always been given just enough and their own personal greed encouraged just enough to make this unlikely. This breaks up what we call the 99% into smaller groups that compete against each other instead of joining together.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

This breaks up what we call the 99% into smaller groups that compete against each other instead of joining together.

true enough. Perhaps there are mechanisms in place that would prevent a Greece style economic meltdown here, I don't know. What repelicans called for at the end of the Bush Presidency would have likely brought us there.

We've already seen several instances of mass murder in the last 15 years. Many of them. Though they appear both unfocused and random, just how much pressure do you suppose must be exerted upon the public to produce just these kinds of incidents among the one percent. In their boardrooms or at their social functions?

The public need not approve such incidents nor even clearly understand why they are taking place - even now they have no clear idea of the fact of let alone the production methods or purpose behind these kinds of manchurian candidates -

Such events would plunge the one percent into chaos - just imagine if one such event actually occurred with complete spontaneity . . .

And if a Greece style economic meltdown occurs here, with the banksters insistence on austerity - all bets are off. The mutherfukers are gonna die.

You watch.

This isn't Iceland, and it certainly isn't Greece.

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[-] -2 points by IndigoRed (20) 7 months ago

Everyone, I will not compel you into making a decision, but I come to you simply with evidence of what I am about to say: This potential war with Syria is a precursor - following the war with Iraq - for plans of a conspiracy designed and driven by the money masters of the western world, AKA the oligarchs of the New World Order. These human beings have so much wealth that they are able to place themselves outside of human life and experience that the rest of us are so accustomed to that they live as if they are in another dimension - comparable to gods looming over entire civilizations from the skies. All human events around the world are a constant stream of events (imagine never dreaming, hoping or thinking of another world/life - all physical human actions are confined to a bubble limited by the size of the planet that began ages ago and plays out analogous to a chemical reaction, the outcome of which is predictable) planned for, predicted by, and due to these elites, like the Iraq war. If America goes to war with Syria or is responsible for the destruction of its current government, these masterminds will be one step closer to having their one world government and this will cause suffering for the majority of mankind on a scale only comparable to the world wars. I present video evidence of what I speak of and simply state that if we show sympathy to the Syrian people like the elite expect of us and go to war, we will have fallen into their trap and allow ourselves to be one step closer to this new form of slavery: a slave of the global elite. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yB17j0a-R34

Contact your representative. The most sure-fire way to have an enduring and convincing effect on your congressional representative is to have prophetic abilities and I will instruct you how. You must first understand that what is unraveling in the middle east is not about Syria but a broader strategy for eliminating threats that could potentially oppose the western powers around the world. Syria is just a stepping stone - more is yet to come and soon it will seem as if the entire middle east has exploded into war.

Your script for what to tell your representative: "The United States will shortly go to war with Libya if it goes to war with Syria. As a tax-paying U.S. citizen, I do not give permission for my tax dollars to be used to fund a war with Libya. You will not have my vote in the next congressional elections if you allow my tax dollars to fund a war with Libya. Represent me as my elected congressman/woman of the state of insert your state here in the congressional vote to use my tax dollars for military intervention outside of American territory."

Spread it around, folks, godspeed. T minus 8 days till Congress votes on the war.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

The most sure-fire way to have an enduring and convincing effect on your congressional representative is to have prophetic abilities and I will instruct you how.

You know you are insane, you know that, right?

[-] 0 points by IndigoRed (20) 7 months ago

wait, I know what the elite do now they go to elite parties and drink expensive champagne and wait until their money investments have gone through. That's the luxury they have over the rest of us ;D make em vote no occupy

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[+] -4 points by buliau (-29) 7 months ago

You sound like a mentally-ill delusional conspiracy theorist who spends too much time listening to Alex Jones. Write to shadz66 here, he also believes in NWO, Illuminati, 911, reptilian overlords, and all that other type of garbage.

[-] -2 points by IndigoRed (20) 7 months ago

You're a fool if you don't see the value in Alex Jones and his investigations. I believe the elite want their NWO within their lifetime, I'm certain the Illuminati is either extinct or irrelevant since they were templars during the crusades and only perpetuated in modern society by the impoverished (black people) so they could have a boogeyman to blame their self-inflicted (they're lazy) poor living conditions, and I'm actually writing a cartoon tv script about underground amphibian humanoids resurfacing to the earth after a large quake opens the entry-way to their civilization. It has knights and kings with modern military equipment and weapons, I think it'll be a huge hit.

[-] 3 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

you need to take your multiple personalities and get some help.

seriously.

[-] 0 points by IndigoRed (20) 7 months ago

I am posting my messages on every forum and form of mass media I know. I am serious, me, myself and I.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

really? because you sound just like a forum troll that many around here refer to as a shit throwing monkey . . . well, ok, maybe just me. Maybe I'm the only one that refers to him as a shit throwing monkey . . .

But I would have sworn that was you, him, her, It - arguing with itself . . . again . . .

in fact, i'm sure of it.

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[-] 1 points by stevebol (1243) from Milwaukee, WI 7 months ago

Templars? No they were scientists, artists, musicians.Galileo, one of Beethoven's early muisc teachers. That type. Haven't been heard from since about 1770's at a meeting in southern Germany.

Jones is off his rocker.

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[-] 3 points by GirlFriday (21784) 7 months ago

What happened to your free speech tantrum?

[-] 2 points by shooz (26738) 7 months ago

You insulted my wife and I..

It's you who should be deleted.

You cannot hide behind your puppets.

You should leave this place.

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[-] 2 points by shooz (26738) 7 months ago

You cannot hide behind your puppets.

You should leave this place for good.

You have nothing of value to offer anyone at all.

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[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

Does OWS even exist? Get it out there, in the street, and show us what it stands for . . .

as it is you are no more than a fraud and a liar, a one percent crier and stooge for the monied elite and you can go pound sand.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 7 months ago

Well instead of trying to blame OWS - why don't you send the post in to the abuse e-mail. Then you may even get some response from the site about the post.

[-] -1 points by buliau (-29) 7 months ago

I agree. Well said. Occupy is a non-violent protest.

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[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago
  1. Anarchy will not feed the people
  2. Establishing a set of standards and adhering to them is not evil when the entire process is transparent and equitable.
  3. What censorship? I said what I said and I'm not yet dead.
  4. Anarchy will not feed the people - it can't even run a GA
  5. War has been waged upon the public, it is a war of class, and into this war comes OWS with no clear idea of whom the primary beneficiaries of this warfare are or how they may best be defeated. The repelican party is weak. They are ripe for utter destruction. And yet OWS stays its hand, insisting instead that both parties are evil and that principles of Anarchy can save us.
  6. we have or we had a very clear opportunity to divide and to conquer - OWS refused, despite documentation regarding who opposed this movement in principle and in fact - from the Boeners hands to the banksters desk.
  7. I'll promote any goddamned thing I want, I've not only earned that right, I see it as an obligation. If you don't like it you can either kiss my ass or just shoot me.

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[-] 3 points by shooz (26738) 7 months ago

In your book, governed by insults, lies, gang tactics against individuals and bullshit.

So why should anyone believe you?

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[-] 2 points by shooz (26738) 7 months ago

"I don't ask people to believe me."

No.

You demand it under threat of attack.

You are not honest. You do not tell the truth. You repeat yourself and avoid issues ad nauseum.

Oh and by the way..........motives do matter.

Every single time.

Why should you stay here?

Why should your lies be accepted as truth?

They shouldn't, and you know that.

You took an important thread and used it to insult my wife and I.

What reasons can you present that would allow you to stay here?

I didn't insult YOU......YOU insulted my wife and I.

You should go.

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[-] 2 points by shooz (26738) 7 months ago

You insulted my wife and I.

You did that.

Not me.

I don't agree with anything you say.

Not one iota.

You are an insulting liar.

You should go for good now.

[-] 1 points by gwb (42) 7 months ago

how much does alec pay you ?

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

You could face jail time.

Under repelican leadership, I could have been sent to Gitmo

Anarchy as a method of governance has been shown to be completely ineffective - as demonstrated by the GA system.

Framing this struggle as one between principles of capitalism and communism will have but one outcome - and that is to prolong the period of social upheaval and unrest, exponentially escalating the rate and the number of casualties and placing the entire cause in doubt.

While OWS may or may not know what the problem is, they have no clear idea how to resolve it, and the only solution consistently proposed, that of anarchy, has been demonstrably ineffective at running even the smallest of OWS affairs.

.

If OWS sees a two headed dragon, they cannot see clearly how to kill it. Rather than attack where it is weak, they turn away completely. OWS is not designed to prevail.

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[-] 3 points by shooz (26738) 7 months ago

And this has to do with insulting my wife and I, in what way?

And what has it to do with gang style attacks on individuals in what way?

And how many puppets did it take you to get here?

And where is it written that OWS endorses such egotistical behavior?

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

we can say that anarchy has failed as a socially organizing principle because in the course of 7,000 years of human history anarchy has not been successfully implemented as a form of governance with anything that anyone could reasonably equate with success.

If you believe the entire system is corrupt, then obviously it must be destroyed. But you cannot destroy it by encouraging everyone to turn away from it, because those who perceive benefit will remain, and as long as they remain in sufficient number then the system will remain.

Whether it was deliberate or not, OWS was designed to fail. It was designed to fail because it deliberately chose not to attack the system at the ballot box. Events in New Hampshire stand as both exception, and a clear demonstration of the viability of the alternative that was open to OWS and which on a national level OWS has with determination, avoided.

We could have captured the entire system and done with it what we wished. People like you encouraged everyone to turn away.

Only the 0.001 percent benefit.

you worthless one percent lacky

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[-] 2 points by shooz (26738) 7 months ago

You insulted my wife and I!

You should go.

You offer no truth whatsoever.

You are a liar, a cheat.

[+] -5 points by davidhebert (-10) 7 months ago

If you take a moment to cool off and reread that comment you'll realize I was complimenting your wife, not insulting her. I said she was nice.

[-] 3 points by shooz (26738) 7 months ago

You insulted my wife and I

You are a liar that uses another puppet for denial!

You are dishonest.

You should leave for good now.

Goodbye

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[+] -5 points by davidhebert (-10) 7 months ago

Too bad you need shooz to protect you from my comments using censorship. I enjoyed our exchanged and had a few more things to say in reply to this comment.

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

really? I need protection? on an internet forum?

common.

I know I've forgotten all of my katas and stuff, but I don't smoke anymore. Since I don't smoke anymore I thought, you know, what the fuk . . . maybe I'll go back to working out. Maybe I'll even take up the art of the Japanese Sword, who knows . . . and toward that end I've begun splitting wood, by hand. I figure that if I can split all day long, every day, then I'll easily be in shape to take up such a study. After all, even when hand to hand, ancient battles could last all day.

And I would so like to take up such a study . . .

To possess such skill that one may kill with all the economy of motion of a raptor soaring an updraft; and with all of the grace, poise, and elegance found amid any Bolshoi production . . .

. . . and do so all day long . . .

.

The day is coming mutherfuker. Don't take my word for it. Just look around. Your paymasters will not relinquish one small part of all they have mastered, and they are mad. You do the math.

O right - such contemplation will not go well with your evening steak and martini.

Unrest is coming. Bloodshed will come with it.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

I'm sure you are correct. I'm much too old to consider such nonsense. Of course. I should just stick with the ever reliable glock 19 . . .

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[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

not a problem

it doesn't have a hammer

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[-] 3 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

I don't care what it looks like to you - I've been clear in the past regarding such issues. Personally I find your arguments not only lame but without merit and do prefer they had stayed. But no matter.

The storm is brewing.

There will be blood.

Your masters have no one but themselves to blame.

[-] -3 points by Narley (-634) 7 months ago

Be careful what you wish for. Following in the footsteps of Timothy McVeigh may not ba a good idea. He didn't have many supporters.

Violence acts will come back on you a thousand fold. Case in point is the Black Blocks. Them smashing windows, destroying property and intentionally hassling the cops was broadcast out to the world and turned the real 99% against OWS. The demise of OWS can be mostly be blamed on the televised violence at the protests. And you want to escalate it???. Wow!

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

Actually there was a video of some OWS supporters defending large plate glass panes against some masked members of the black block and that provided OWS with media coverage that was priceless.

But as I have noted elsewhere on this thread, and as has been noted by such eminent individuals as former Presidents:

  • Those who make economic and political reform impossible make violent revolution inevitable.
[-] 0 points by Narley (-634) 7 months ago

The point is it's NOT inevitable. Violence is counterproductive.

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

shooz I think, addressed your point rather well, in so far as he went.

To complete the examination, one must accept that within our society there exists a cabal of international elitists, corporatists, and industrialists, who seek to defile and to debase - to corrupt - every single civic structure and organization and so capture it as one more function for profit. For after all, why organize the public if not as a function for profit.

They love America, for after all, why would they not? It is America that has done virtually all of the heavy lifting in the opening of new market opportunities throughout Asia and defended capitalist property rights in South Americain during the later half of the last century and now has furthered the opening of new market opportunities throughout the Middle East , , . they love America . . .

but they fear Americans

They fear Americans because we do prize our freedom, our dignity, and our rights. Some of us prize these things above all else and will not tolerate the subjugation of the masses whether through economics or by other means. They fear us because new market opportunities are becoming harder and harder to find of any appreciable size, and what remains are the pockets of the laborers who have made all of these new economic opportunities possible.

They will not cease their corruption willingly. What is more, they know what is coming, and they will use every facility at their disposal to insulate themselves from what is to come.

It is as if all of civilization were the Titanic, and we have indeed, struck hard and fast upon an ice berg, and we are, just now, going down.

There are no life boats at all.

But there are chains, and with them the elites will attempt to keep the rest of us locked below decks, that if any means of survival at all be found, they and their progeny will have first and exclusive access . . .

[-] -2 points by Narley (-634) 7 months ago

Wow, You’re really into violence as a solution. So let me try another approach. In the real world violence is not on the horizon in the US. At least not as a way to fix social and economic ills. I guess there could be a couple of isolated incidents, But any effort to change things via violence will fizzle like the Weather Underground and other subversive groups did in the sixties. The masses aren't as fired up about injustice as you want them to be. They will see any violent acts as terrorism.

But when you consider all the reasons violence won’t work, the biggest reason is violence is immoral. When you resort to violence you become your own enemy.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

They will not cease their corruption willingly. What is more, they know what is coming, and they will use every facility at their disposal to insulate themselves from . . . any adverse consequence of their own behavior.

. . . I said.

Refute my position or not. It is a matter of indifference to me.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

They will not cease their corruption willingly. What is more, they know what is coming, and they will use every facility at their disposal to insulate themselves from . . . any adverse consequence of their own behavior.

. . . I said.

Refute my position or not. It is a matter of indifference to me.

[-] -3 points by Narley (-634) 7 months ago

We cannot allow such rubbish go unchallenged. Violence will not be occurring in the foreseeable future.

You come across like the rednecks with all the guns who are itching for a civil war to start so they can put the liberals out of their misery. That's a common thread on most conservative web forums. I think you could better sell your nonsense on those forums.

[-] 1 points by shooz (26738) 7 months ago

You must ask the correct question.

Is someone making economic and political reform impossible?

That's the question that qualifies the answer.

[-] 2 points by shooz (26738) 7 months ago

You insulted my wife and I.

all I did was point that out.

You are liar and nothing more.

[+] -5 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 7 months ago

My girlfriend finds it a bit disturbing that we spend so much time on here, arguing with people we have never even met before.

Does your wife feel the same way?

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[-] 2 points by shooz (26738) 7 months ago

You insulted my wife and I.

You cannot hide behind your puppets.

You are insensitive.

You are insensate.

You possess no detectable level of honesty.

You should leave for good now.

You have nothing to offer.

[-] 2 points by shooz (26738) 7 months ago

You insulted my wife and I.

Unbidden.

You have no purpose here.

You are insensitive.

You are insensate.

You should leave for good now, with all of your army of puppets.

[-] 2 points by shooz (26738) 7 months ago

You insulted my wife and I.

I did NOTHING else besides point that out.

You are an insulting liar!

You should leave for good now.

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[-] 2 points by shooz (26738) 7 months ago

You insulted my wife and I.

You cannot use another puppet to deny it.

You are dishonest.

You should leave for good now.

You are ruthless and without scruples.

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[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

is that the best you got?

  • I got gas this afternoon. Across from me was a thin guy in a tee shirt. ON the shirt: a Sword Fish, with a US Flag. He couldn't stop smirking. Am I some fuking fish? DO I LOOK LIKE A FISH

If my behavior is, somehow, useful, then to whom? and for what purpose?

All I know is that in my own mind, what I have written is a conviction that I possess, regardless of what use such words of mine may be put.

[-] -3 points by Viking2001 (-97) 7 months ago

close enough

http://www.marcjohns.com/art/fish-with-beard-470.jpg

"what I have written is a conviction that I possess, regardless of what use such words of mine may be put."

somebody else did that once.

called it mein kampf

it was ultimately used to create that picture of yours

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

spoken like a true repelican

you are no more viking than you are an individual of conscience. Your interests lie with the .001 percent. I am sure you already have your reward. Enjoy it while you may, for none may say what the morrow may hold . . .

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[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

then perhaps I should begin a search of farm steads and private roads, named Valhalla, perhaps beginning in the north central part of the nation, perhaps even in Minnesota, for want of a better beginning.

For what purpose you ask?

Just for the satisfaction of posting your address on line . . .

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[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20568) from South Burlington, VT 7 months ago

I don't like baseball

and you aren't hiding under the bleachers