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Forum Post: This Surveillance Issue Isn't That Difficult To Grasp Is It?

Posted 6 months ago on Feb. 12, 2014, 10:13 a.m. EST by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

I've been saying the NSA program is simply going to move into the private sector - but how can we know?

How can we know?

It really isn't that difficult. Private sector surveillance that is every bit as extensive as that conducted by the NSA is and has been underway for quite some time, it takes place in your own home.

It's right in front of you

and you don't say a word. Cookies. They form the basis for the algorithms that select which ad to place on many of the web pages you visit. Advertising selected on the basis of your own behavior. TARGETED ADVERTISING. It does seem innocuous. Yet it provides a much more detailed picture of who you are than that meta data the NSA is collecting and against which we are now raising our voice.

The NSA programs designed to harvest data were written by the private sector, for the specific purpose of generating profit.

.

This is not rocket science. It's just basic human fear and avarice.

.




  • Privatized data collection is a violation of your right to privacy every bit as much as NSA data collection, and stands in similar violation to the United States Constitution. DEMAND ACTION.

.

linkback

.

demand action



On Philosophy -


On the Surveillance Industrial Complex -


Other -

123 Comments

123 Comments


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[-] 6 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 months ago

''CIA Accused Of Spying On Senate Intelligence Committee'', by Jeremy Herb :

quis custodiet ipsos custodes ?

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[-] 1 points by lucacaputo (2) 6 months ago

hello i'm luca from italy, five star movement.... ready to help occupy wall street

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[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 6 months ago

public scrutiny is aware of public scrutiny

[-] 0 points by RareBreed (0) from Long Eddy, NY 6 months ago

Did you know these guys fought the Patriot Act?

http://rare.us/story/when-the-koch-brothers-gave-the-aclu-20-million-to-fight-the-patriot-act/

"Long before MSNBC began defending mass surveillance or even before the Republican National Committee began denouncing it, the left’s favorite bogeymen saw the Patriot Act as an attack on civil liberties.

In fact, the Koch Brothers might’ve given more to repeal the Patriot Act than any other individual political campaign.

In 2008, New York Social Diary reported of the billionaire philanthropists, “(David) and his brother Charles, along with George Soros, the Ford Foundation and the Rockefeller Foundation each contributed $10 million to the ACLU to defeat parts of the USA Patriot Act.”

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[-] 0 points by RarerStill (0) from Wysox, PA 6 months ago

In 2010, the website facesofphilanthropy.com reported that David Koch’s American Civil Liberties Union donation was specifically “in relation to crushing Parts 15, 16 and 17 of the US Patriot Act.”

These have been some of the Patriot Act’s most controversial provisions.

Do me a solid and go read what those parts are. I'm busy.

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[+] -5 points by GirlFriday (17435) 6 months ago

Shadz has about 10 minutes, zilla.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 6 months ago

So WTF does THAT even mean ?! I've got much longer than that today btw !! Unfortunately for u !!!

fiat lux ...

[-] -1 points by muffinsanddonuts (9) from Union City, NJ 6 months ago

It means you are on the ban radar. Please be careful. You are an important member of this forum and OWS. Perhaps it would be wise to leave the twinkle team alone for awhile. Just ignore them.

[-] -1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 6 months ago

looks like I'm supposed to jump ship and go crash a bigger system anyway

but contrary to complaints and the constant meta forum discussions due to lack of censorship

the density of information is well kept by the the likes of shadz66

[+] -7 points by GirlFriday (17435) 6 months ago

It means, you pathetic lyin' conniving piece of shit, that I have things to do. So, if you were going to be a dick then that was your time limit. After such, you will know that I am not here and (of course) it is then that you demonstrate that you have severe diarrhea of the gaping hole in your face by spewing shit.

[-] 6 points by shadz66 (19985) 6 months ago

I'm not a sadist & I'm NOT enjoying your melt-down here, so I won't be writing u another poem. Go. Be at peace. I'm not important enough to be responsible for such negative psychic energy & furious angst.

Btw, logorrhoea was probably the word u were looking for and u do actually exhibit a bit of that yourself.

fiat pax ...

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[+] -6 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 months ago

If quoting former Reagan cabinet members on an Occupy site, isn't sadistic?

I don't know what is.

Tá sé soiléir. Tá tú ar an oppressor Béarla

[-] 6 points by shadz66 (19985) 6 months ago

Blinkered, pre-programmed Dem shilling gives u away ... yet again !!!

There's so much that u don't know and sadly - so much that we do !!

See if u can stop babbling at me in tongues - even if you're a 'Mick' !

temet nosce ...

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[+] -5 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 months ago

Mo náire thú.

Cainteoir sé bréagach

[-] 6 points by shadz66 (19985) 6 months ago

Ye shall know a useless, fkn trolling prick by his actions and words - whatever they may be !!

multum in parvo ...

[+] -6 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 months ago

Yes.

Have you heard?

They quote Reagan cabinetry.

cén fáth a bhfuil tú ag insult dom?

Ní féidir liom insult tú.

[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 6 months ago

Hmmm. ''Both Move On and Rebuild the Dream have attempted in insidious ways to hitch their faltering Democratic wagons to the struggle and success of the Occupy Movement. Both have attempted to appear as supporters and organizational spokespersons for the Occupy Movement while in reality they are and always have been front organizations for the Democratic Party.'' from :

facta non verba ...

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 6 months ago

if we can get move on backing, that would be great

[-] 8 points by shadz66 (19985) 6 months ago

''5 Ways Rich People's "Entitlements" Cheat You and Me'', by Paul Buchheit :

Good luck Matt.

paz y luz ...

[-] -1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 6 months ago

America is gaining in wealth because of technological infrastructure and a deregulated financial industry that uses the technology to capture most of those gains.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article37608.htm

yep, society has reached a point of automation

where the needs of the many can be provided by the few

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 6 months ago

'High Frequency Trading Algorithms' are perhaps what was being alluded to.

Maybe - the needs of the many are best served and provided BY the many.

fiat justitia ...

[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 months ago

Where's the stuff on the Ron Lawler's?

The problem with liberals is and always has been, they just really don't stay organized.

They are more individualized than their opposition.

they just can't hide. It's endemic to their philosophy.

It's a well know fact. Even proven scientifically. Even your good friend trashy knows this.

Now libe(R)tarians?

The subterfuge is all theirs and you have taken their side, whether you know it or not.......

Well?

Do you?

Answer nicely, or I will return to the Gaelic an English oppressor deserves.

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[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 6 months ago

'High Frequency Trading Algorithms' are perhaps what was being alluded to.

what? the banks gets to make up the numbers

is that a new way money is manipulated?

gee wiz der

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[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 6 months ago

No, you got that wrong ZenDude ! I have nothing to do with Kochs or Koch-suckers and have ALWAYS differentiated between the decent, compassionate even 'liberal' Democratic Voters ... who vote Dem like they wipe their ass (ie. not a nice subject for polite conversation but WTF is the option ?) AND the B-S, Corporate Controlled & Co-opted Dem-Party-On-The-Hill !! You do get that this is actually a core OWS position, right ?!!!

ne quid nimis ...

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[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 6 months ago

''We believe elections are essential to a peaceful, just, and sustainable future, and we will continue to push for changes in our electoral system that will guarantee every human the right to vote for candidates who are not financially corrupted or filtered through gerrymandering, unreasonable ballot restrictions or corporate media gate-keeping, and to have our votes verifiably and publicly counted.''

''We believe, however, that elections alone cannot accomplish what is needed. We cannot “vote” against the disastrous influence of Wall Street or war profiteers by backing either of the two major political parties'' My emphasis & from :

Consider - philosophical and tactical differences are allowed here. That is the process and milieu from which Real Change comes. The time frame has to be beyond one, two or even three 'election cycles'.

It's ONLY been 30 months since OWS came to be ... there's lots to play for yet. The mthrfkng (& ergo necrophiliac) Kochs & The 0.01% get this better than us & so r desperate to derail The 99% Struggle.

respice, adspice, prospice ...

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 months ago

You'd be funny, if you weren't so far behind the curve.

http://www.occupy.com/article/warren-proposal-postal-banking-key-financial-reform-public-good

http://www.occupy.com/article/under-public-pressure-house-democrats-introduce-plan-public-campaign-financing

Don't read 'em now. They're from Occupy, and you know wouldn't want to do that.

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[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 6 months ago

WTF ''political process'' ffs ?!!! The one that has been pre-rigged and presented to you - for the ritualised, four yearly choice between tweedleDumb & tweedledumbeR ... THAT one, you mean ?!! Millions of good people are rejecting that faux choice as we speak and they need an alternative 99% Party .. but anyone 'tribal-voting' for D (or R) just won't be getting that too readily but Sanders and Sawant show the way !

fiat justitia ...

[+] -4 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 months ago

http://libcom.org/news/london-tube-strikes-pickets-04022014

The BS, is all yours.

You've never met a FLAKESnews teabagge(R).

You should be thankful and respect those of us who have.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 6 months ago

I don't respect u & go ask yourself why that may be.Clue for u, it's based TOTALLY on your actions !

temet nosce ...

[+] -5 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 months ago

Nice to know you don't respect your country's working class either.

Nor the writings of it's Anarchists.

http://libcom.org/library/nicholas-witchell-six-oclock-scabbing

the shame is all yours.

[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 6 months ago

You don't know ass from elbow or anything about me !!! Keep embarrassing yourself !! + Without even opening your link I know that that's a ten year old story about a prick BBC newsreader who is currently the 'Royal Correspondent' !

I fkn hate the prick but it is interesting that u'd think that that would somehow be an attack on me. You're such an idiot that you're off the fkn scale really. Your kittens & flowers await but for others :

verum ex absurdo ...

[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 months ago

It was probably written by a libe(R)tarian co-opter in the first place.

And the Koch brothers said.

"Keep their filthy, Occupy hands off our bought and paid for government."

Send in the college libe(R)tarians!

And so it was.

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[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 6 months ago

where's that ?

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[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 6 months ago

I live in a perpetual state of helplessness

in that I do not have the money I need to pay rent or eat food

I am given money so able to pay for these needs

which are readily available

so all along the society is capable of feeding me

yet only if I have money

[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 months ago

NONE of those articles take into account the Ron Lawl infestation of those early days.

It was in clear evidence here. I guess they should have stopped by more often in those days.

Those that are left are well hidden.

But they show up, quoting Reagan cabinetry and now the Southern Avenger.

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[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 months ago

David Duke was actually, very good at that.

So was George Lincoln Rockwell.

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[-] -2 points by RarerStill (0) from Wysox, PA 6 months ago

Funny as always. Hard to believe you are single.

[-] 4 points by GirlFriday (17435) 6 months ago

Pfffttt......I have one child and I don't need another one. You sure do like those Koch brothers, doncha?

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 6 months ago

yeah

but they don't want to play with

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[-] -3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 months ago

Ayn Paul's buddy?

That bastion of lies?

Sheeeeeit. If they did oppose it, it was because their kick back wasn't HUGE enough.

Did he tell you they sold weapons to Iran?

[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 months ago

If there's money to be made, on data to be sold.....nothing is sacred.

http://billmoyers.com/2014/03/12/look-whos-selling-your-voting-records/

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[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 months ago

And your cell phone and your computer and your......................................

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[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 months ago

Of course the "private sector" likes to think of their data collection on us as private property.

http://idpl.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2012/09/17/idpl.ips027.full

Systematic government access to records held by third parties raises substantial challenges for individuals whose communications, transactions, and other activities are exposed to government scrutiny. But systematic access also creates challenges for businesses—both providers of digital services and the commercial customers of those services—that go beyond privacy concerns. These challenges include:

When access sweeps in the communications and stored data of commercial entities, trade secrets and sensitive business information may be put at risk.

The technical measures deployed on private systems and networks to support systematic access may introduce security vulnerabilities.3

Given the lack of transparency about national practices and misunderstandings about different countries' legal regimes, competition may be distorted as business customers shop for jurisdictions in which they believe their data may be less exposed to government access, and governments may use claimed disparities in laws to advantage domestic service providers

Innovation may be limited if services must be designed to ensure government access.

Lack of public trust may make individuals hesitant to use new services and new business models.

and then there's banks that do it for your own good.

http://data.worldbank.org/about/world-development-indicators-data/private-sector

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[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 months ago

They'll find a market to sell that information in too.

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[-] -3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 months ago

Um, you do understand they they wrote the laws that deal with that?

Welcome to the wide world of K Street and ALEC

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[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 months ago

LOL.......there is NO real opt out.

Unless you want to go live in a cave somewhere.

Of course that might be the only viable option, before too long.

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/03/12/3396341/nasa-study-climate-sensitivity-high/

but you won't be worrying about electronic spying at that point.

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[-] -3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 months ago

SHHhhhhhhhhh. We don't want the FLAKESnews crowd to find out.

You know how confused they get, when it comes to science.

They just turn up the Limbaugh.

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2014/02/18/the_climate_is_always_changing

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[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 months ago

I would imagine it's the folks that don't want me to post this either.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/earth-insight/2014/mar/14/nasa-civilisation-irreversible-collapse-study-scientists

this is a newly released report. I wonder what the wingnuts will have to say about it?

Cut funding to NASA.......again?

After all, they don't want the truth getting out. It goes against their "education" agenda.

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[-] -3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 months ago

Many of us have, in spite of those that insist on waiting for some final collapse. As though that collapse will give them what they want.

It won't. It will just be very ugly and in the end, even more totalitarian.

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[-] -3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 months ago

I'm talking about after the fall. When all resources are scarce.

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[-] -2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 6 months ago

Nope, not that hard to grasp.

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[-] -1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 6 months ago

Well, here is the thing and it happens repeatedly:

Aim but leave an area where it is wide open and that is on any little campaign or policy. It isn't that no one knows. It is that it is not addressed in it's entirely lest it take away from the over all goal. In doing so, this doesn't often accomplish the goal. It is the same for all policies changes: immigration etc.

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[-] -3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 months ago

Now do you see why THEY want to control the bandwidth YOU pay for?

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[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 months ago

We should get them for free these days, along with the internet.

Remember when TV was free?

It should still be.

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[-] -3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 months ago

It's the networks way of double dipping.

just don't try that trick at home.

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[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 months ago

Supply side economics.

or as it's more commonly known.

Trickle down.

Demand side economics scares the shit out of them so bad, they've found ways to assure that few people even know it's possible..

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[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 months ago

Customer service is an accident of the PR department.

They'd prefer not to bother.

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[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 6 months ago

broad cast

[-] -3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 months ago

Yeah, it's a more palatable replacement for the other P word. Propaganda.

It's about as accurate as "human resources". Or as like to call that one, "policy enforcement".

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[-] -3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 months ago

BofA=yes.....NSA=no

http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/21949-the-new-fascism-terms-and-conditions

who's zoomin' who?

There are two clear choices.

1.) Make it all illegal. Everywhere.

Unlikely. Even if we could get them to do it here, there are many more who would exploit it and sell it off anyway. It would create an even bigger black market in information.

2.) Open it to everyone, everywhere. Perhaps even make encryption of digital data illegal all by itself.

This would drive them absolutely crazy and is, I think the best option.

Oh well, so you have to write checks again and mail 'em off by USPS, and go to the bank to get "personal finance" things done again.

It would mean the return of the courier too as they would no longer trust any form of "wire transfer".

It would mean a return of the "paper trail". Another plus.

So more jobs all around too. Would you rather we had more cytologists, looking for codes in every email?

iT would be worth it................:)

Besides, the tech is going to get better and better and smaller and smaller.

It's the only logical choice.

All information yearns to be free.

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[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 months ago

As long as we all get to know. I'm good with that.

could you keep a sack on though? PLease?

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[-] -3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 months ago

All information, yearns to be free.

Perhaps that isn't quite accurate.

All information yearns to be accessed by everyone.

It's the only thing that can surely stop your inevitability.

Yours is an inevitability that's predicated on the current path.

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[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 months ago

The tech itself, will one day force that epiphany.

All I'm saying is, let's get started.

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[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 months ago

Oh, I don't know. It wouldn't be the first difficult journey I've had to undertake.

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[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 6 months ago

Except that tens of thousands of other people are doing the same thing at the same time.

The resulting movements of the main character have been spastic, to say the least. Although the horde managed some success in the first few days, capturing several of those elusive Pokemon, the sheer number of people now tapping commands into Twitch's chat window is causing the game's main character, Red, to wander back and forth over the same spot, bang into walls and check his inventory with neurotic frequency.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/18/tech/gaming-gadgets/twitch-plays-pokemon/

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 months ago

Yep.

The need for human evolution is obvious.

We will adapt. We have to.

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[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 months ago

We will evolve, or we will perish.

It's not really a "choice".

It's reality.

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[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 months ago

I take it you won't be interested in one of those jobs in Utah?

Sorting out every email sent, every day.

6 days a week, 12 hours a day.

They'll be seeing things that aren't there in no time at all. Best to just open it up to everyone everywhere.

What other choice is there?

[+] -4 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 months ago

" Do corporations have a legal right to track your car? If you think that is a purely academic question, think again. Working with groups like the American Civil Liberties Union, states are considering laws to prevent private companies from continuing to mass photograph license plates.

This is one of the backlashes to the news about mass surveillance. However, this backlash is now facing legal pushback from the corporations who take the photographs and then sell the data gleaned from the images.

In a lawsuit against the state of Utah, Digital Recognition Network, Inc. and Vigilant Solutions are attempting to appropriate the ACLU’s own pro-free speech arguments for themselves. They argue that a recent Utah law banning them from using automated cameras to collect images, locations and times of license plates is a violation of their own free speech rights. Indeed, in an interview, DRN’s counsel Michael Carvin defends this practice by noting, “Everyone has a First Amendment right to take these photographs and disseminate this information.”

He argues that a license plate is an inherently public piece of information."

http://inthesetimes.com/article/16386/do_companies_have_a_right_to_track_you

Who's zoomin', who?

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[-] -3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 months ago

Legal schmeagal, they collect and sell it anyway, and they've done so for more than 50 years.

Unless of course the information gives them a profitable edge, in which case they hoard it as long as they can, in order to improve the "market value" of that information.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28256) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 months ago

Now with GPS - know where your population is going 24/7/365 - bluetooth for phones cars etc etc etc

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 months ago

If it puts out a signal, it can be traced.

GPS just gives it in real time.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28256) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 months ago

This is On-Star how can we help you NSA ?

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 months ago

The CIA is trying to break into my car?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28256) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 months ago

Hold on we'll contact Homeland Security right away . . . . um sorry they seem to be busy right now ummm I think though that they are following U - sooooo.............

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28256) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 months ago

lol - doesn't NSA and the CIA ride share?

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