Forum Post: This forum is on the decline (values of life)
Posted 12 years ago on April 3, 2012, 3:56 p.m. EST by DanielBarton
(1345)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
This forum has been on the decline. Its all hate speech against each other no collaboration of ideas. This forum is done the idea that was started with was a good one but it is no longer pure.
If someone has an idea different than yours they are not a troll just have a different opinion than you. Please get over this no one from this website even knows what a troll is you just say it because you hear other people say it. Just because someone is conservative doesn't mean the're a troll just means that they have different values
This used to be a none party forum but now if you don't vote Democrat you are told and called an idiot. Even after i post this i will be called an idiot because people think i'm a Republican.
So as Human listen to all points of views be open with your mind because that will make it a better one. Please don't insult anyone in here In the end of the day your just shouting at your computer keys so lets be civil and none of that i'll be civil when they are crap. No just be the better person ignore trolls post real thoughts and ideas.
Also i'm for a free society so free market and freedom of personal choice so if you want to talk about that message me or bring it up in this thread. We can talk about what type of freedom we want.
Edit
Yeah i like all the opinions i really didnt want this to be about trolls and i wanted it to be more about accepting other peoples ideas to make a better system. Any system we have or have a theory on is not correct other wise we would have it as a main system. So we must create and combine ideas to make a better system. It wont be a utopia because no such thing exist but we can try.
Engage trolls when they have legitimate arguments, disengage when they are not.
That sounded good at first, but then when you think a little bit deeper there's a reason they get that label. It isn't because they love good clean debate. They insult, curse, ravage, smear, and generally have a destructive tendency.
So, just think it through. If they insult don't ignore and debate them as if they have something good to say because they don't and really don't care about clean decent respectful debate, rather the exact opposite.
And, if you don't call them out, you are encouraging them to continue their immaturity. We have enough of them, don't help them multiply.
Calling them out encourages them, that is why they are here, to sidetrack our discussions on how to best obtain economic and political justice. The more time we spend trading insults, or debating irrelevant topics, the less time we spend trying to achieve our goals. And they are winning. That is why so many legitimate members have left. So far I can't see where we have come to agreement on a strategy to fight a single issue. Can anybody name one?
They never win first off. The truth will WIN the day always even if we don't see it. It doesn't need us to prop it up (or we're in deep deep doo doo)They fear the truth. The truth stands for itself. Calling them out is being truthful to ourselves, it's like raising a child, they try to see what they can get away with.
We must seek this justice even if you may not see it. I do. They need the feedback period. (Banning is great feedback) What's not rational is somehow thinking they belong here, They don't. If I ran this board they wouldn't last long. I would warn one time, and remind them that world does have rules for good reason. If you can't deal with reason you do not belong here. Period. But, the moderators think it's good to have them and somehow we all can turn them around. I think that is sorely mistaken. Sorely. Personally, I don't take well to being insulted and put down. I have too much self esteem to put up with it.
The only thing has kept me here is that when they get in my face I push them off and leave them alone. For instance, anyone who calls me an idiot I refuse to debate.
I hope this allows you to understand me and why I truly exercise my right to be treated with respect or the respect ends & we do a dance around the fire. I have no problem with it. In the end, they will know how I feel, angered.
Imagine that. I'm human and when somehow spits in my face I get mad.
Can I get mad? Or am I a door mat for these clowns?
Properly, I'm repeating myself, but here goes, they should be banned and then we will be clear of the problem. The moderators are the only ones who ultimately can deal with this, the rest of us have to put up with the riff raff that gets in here.
I've seen this before too. It comes from experience. This forum really is a troller's paradise. They all get very long leashes here if you may have noticed. I'm sure you did.
Now, there it is again, honesty. It is what it is. Good Luck!
The trolls win when we debate non Occupy topics. We move backwards. Let's stay on Occupy topics so we can start moving forward.
I agree there. And what could really assist in that pursuit is knocking them out fast so they get to beat the war drum very long. It could be very effective. But as I said before, I'm not sitting in that power seat. I can only warn others by calling them out. It's the only tool in the chest. Otherwise, we can defy human nature and pretend we just above it all. But that's overly idealistic. I LOVE the ideals they R wonderfully lofty but down here in the real world it just doesn't play out that way.
Good, looks like we do agree these trolls are a$$hats who waste our time trying on different a$$hats that never fit correctly. Truly a waste.
The Puzzler
You need to be honest now, puzzlin. You are the most foul-mouthed person I have ever encountered here.
I have noticed a steep decline in the level of discourse myself. The forum is beginning too become toxic. I'm pretty sporadic when it comes to visiting the site, there are months that I don't visit at all and I've been considering not coming on here anymore. Most of the time its just the same old arguments or variations of them over and over again, except this time its a lot nastier than usual.
i guess one could conclude it's heating up
"let's get it started in here...."
it's just a news board to me
sometimes, I get upset at what I perceive to be blatant deliberate misrepresentation by poster
this is becoming more relevant every day in this forum
the trolls do come in waves,. then there are new simple dip-shts and asholes that seem to show up from time to time,. this forum is hot and cold, however I still find it interesting to sling thoughts at the thoughtless twits parroting partisan attacks, and broken ideology, or idolatry more accurately.
this place has shown me that the right-wing, or what ever that is now,. as it is not conservative, it does seem fascist more than conservative,. how can you be for 'limited government' and for unlimited military spending and expansions of police state powers, and call that conservative?? the right seems to have gone off the deep-end into pure fantasy and hate-filled fascism. the current push by 'F350' and others here to fan racial flames is indicative of the right currently,. you truly do become what you hate,. as america has a fundamentalist faith-head Taliban like 'back to the stone age' movement, Gingrich, Santorum, etc. are all straight-up anachronisms.
Perhaps we should contact admin., and request a strict ban of all users who blatantly, and insultingly post against the movement?
As well as those who bitch about getting banned for doing that.
I would favor a ban on all who engage in personal insults which I see far too often across the ideological spectrum.
The forum DNC superstars ain't having any of that........ it is their SOP.
Anyone who questions them is a RED wearing die hard Republican. It really is that simple for many of them.
dat true, but I play the game they bring me..
What is wrong with honest debate? I have been begging someone here to convince me that this "movement" is worth anything but no one has been able to come up with a coherent thought that would sway me in the least.
Here is one thought. We want to restore Democracy back to the people, to have an equal vote and voice in our government, to steer it in the direction that we choose, regardless of income.
nothing is wrong with sharing friendly words.
I'm for change but i'm not for the movements tactics. I wish they didn't do somethings that they do. But i cant control the movement only shout loud enough for people to hear and hope they listen
What kind of "worth" are you looking for?
The movement has changed the conversation on many levels
Although I disagree with passinthetime, can't you see that there's some truth to his argument? Whenever someone does discuss a varying opinion from OWS, they are trashed for such a thought. I've been called a troll myself. I don't know why. I had a differing opinion about something, even though I support OWS for the most part.
I have also been called a troll because of my dislike of Obama. Some people seem to think that any disapproval of Democratic party politics means someone is a troll. Ridiculous really. I don't understand how one could claim to support OWS and Obama simultaneously.
sticks and stones can break your bones
Some of us become frustrated with answering the same questions over and over, just to have them come up again.
I've personally enjoyed reading some of your posts bro and voted them up.
What is the opinion you feel so slighted for?
Personally, I enjoy seeing what these people are saying to try to trash the movement. It is good practice that is making my rebuttals stronger, and proving to me that I am on the side of truth.
Fun fact: The person a debate that uses generalizations and tries to paint entire demographics with unsavory traits tends to be wrong. Use a pinch of logic, science, and statistics and watch all of the hateful lies fall apart!
I do that and they tend to become insulting.....LOL
Then they bring up the same thing in another thread.
BTW. I've loved most of what you've had to say Xenu.
Keep going forward!
I've noticed that as well. They make the same arguments over and over no matter how many times you refute them
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See, I got banned again for that "inflammatory" remark about the "movement". So how has the movement changed anything? Give me one solid concrete thing that has changed.
There's the rub.
I have yet to see anyone bitching about being banned, show any level of honesty, dealing with why they were banned.
That's been true since the first month in here, when they would come to the forum and bitch about being banned from the chatroom.
Now you ask me a question.
In answer, I will say that if nothing else, OWS has changed the language, and that's an important step for any movement.
no honest debate here...they shut down the opposition...a totalitarian web site.
hey shooz who do I send this to?
1sealyon
BLOWCHUNKS
DanielBarton
Dell
Demian
F350
Farmerbrown
Ironboltbruce
Jph
MsStacy
Rebdem
RedJazz43
VantagePoint250624
I see 13 people that may just have a different opinion than you. Unless they are the black bloc and trying to overthrow this movement which they aren't and can't do online.
i give an example. DanielBarton i just want to see the movement move back towards the real problem and get away from doing stupid things. Personally i think this movement doesn't get the support it should because of what they are going after in the recent weeks. My friends were all happy when this movement started but one by one we left. It really went down hill when we went to an event only to be yelled at and told to leave because we the wrong scene for them. Since when can that happen this movement is all about moving forward and accepting people. So im the only one left from my group trying to get this group to accept more people and improve its demographics.
I cant go to an occupy because i have school and i know getting a degree is worth it since if i'm in the top circle i know i can influence it to change.
these people never disagree with each other that's all I'm saying, as far as I can see
I haven't seen some of these around for a while.
I'm thinking some of them finally said something to get themselves banned.
You could try sending the list to jart or agnosticnixie.
they are all from the last week or so, I do a pretty good job of bringing them out, ;).
I've chased most of those around some too.
Mostly a buncha' bozos if you ask me.
We should always keep a few around to spice it up, I guess?
I saw something really nasty the other day, and when I went back to read something else that post was gone, so somebody is looking around.
I spend a lot of time just defending my posts, but I try to read a few others each day, I just read people I know mostly, the trolls drop in on me, but I don't mind they have been bringing me the latest talking points for years, always good to keep an eye out for what the right is doing. The list are people who do nothing but tear us down, some true believers, they're just confused like I was in 1980, show up have been on the list but I took them off because they at least talk on occanison abnout wealth inequality, this group I don't see it.
Here's new piece of ammo on the inequality front.
It's effects are more far reaching than you might imagine.
http://www.physorg.com/news/2012-04-income-inequality-distrust-foster-academic.html
The current economic system is very effective at teaching that power not merit is what matters. The more skilled your position the more clearly you can see this. It was well known at the nuclear plant where I worked the smartest did not get promoted, the ones who towed the line best did. In that line of work you tend to know who the standouts were. It is natural that this knowledge would find its way into our schools, where it becomes, “it doesn’t matter how you got the grade...” . There is some small chance we could change this, but it would take a lot of truth.
Most are hired and promoted according to their ability and willingness to kiss ass.
I've known this for years.
Goes to show how sick those in a position of power can be, that they enjoy useless suck-ups stroking their egos, so much so that they even punish their best workers. That is another sign of insanity.
Check out the link I posted above.
It's one of the latest studies on inequality.
And also pleas to the families friends and co-workers to get them help. With handouts/leaflets to explain the condition to those who do not know.
Pleonexia.
The illness tactic is one that's never been applied.
How many times have you heard someone say, "this whole thing is just nuts"?
It really is..........:)
Call a World wide day of action, describe the usual tactics, but everyone shows up peacefully waving banners and signs calling for understanding of pleonexia. A plea for research and a cure.
It was in the German press where I first read a study that describes the psychopathic behaviors in CEOs. Perhaps it catch on more quickly in countries with National health care.
Could that be why they are so afraid of it here?
Education coupled with active involvement is awesome. Why do you think the greedy bastards are getting so anxious and are acting-out all so insanely all of a sudden? People are beginning to wake-up and are beginning to make use of their rights.
[-] 1 points by shooz (5535) 5 minutes ago
Pleonexia.
The illness tactic is one that's never been applied.
How many times have you heard someone say, "this whole thing is just nuts"?
It really is..........:)
Call a World wide day of action, describe the usual tactics, but everyone shows up peacefully waving banners and signs calling for understanding of pleonexia. A plea for research and a cure.
It was in the German press where I first read a study that describes the psychopathic behaviors in CEOs. Perhaps it catch on more quickly in countries with National health care.
Could that be why they are so afraid of it here? ↥like ↧dislike permalink
I do believe you and this is not the 1st that I have run across the term/definition of a real illness. It is a mental health concern/issue as it seems those in certain positions of commerce and power can be subject to it and hence cause all kinds of damage. It is a serious concern for an individual and their family but catastrophic in places of power.
[-] 1 points by shooz (5535) 8 minutes ago
Pleonexia, it's not only the disease that has people lose their mortgage in Vegas. You can lose it to WallStreet too.
It's real google it. ↥like ↧dislike permalink
It's a condition that needs further study, and could be one more effective, peaceful approach for OWS.
Imagine a march consisting of signs like.
Pleonexia
You're ill and we know it.
Help us find the cure.
It is not a bad idea to bring this issue to the light of day for serious consideration by the AMA as well as the general public.
[-] 1 points by shooz (5535) 6 minutes ago
It's an illness my friend, and I'm beginning to think it might be contagious.
Perhaps OWS could set up a pleonexia foundation.
Research for a cure!!!! ↥like ↧dislike permalink
Pleonexia, it's not only the disease that has people lose their mortgage in Vegas. You can lose it to WallStreet too.
It's real google it.
Yep good food for thought as usual, and I expect that from you.
http://www.physorg.com/news/2012-04-income-inequality-distrust-foster-academic.html
Yes the way things are run now in business and government. Rewards for failure and criminal actions on a worldwide scale, No accountability or Responsibility. Why should we wonder that this is fostering bad and criminal behavior in our young?
It's an illness my friend, and I'm beginning to think it might be contagious.
Perhaps OWS could set up a pleonexia foundation.
Research for a cure!!!!
Will do - Thanks - you always share good stuff.
well maybe because we all think alike i know me and dell have share many conversations about how we should fix capitalism and retore it back into a true system. we talked about books and other things that i found enjoyable so no i wouldnt call us in sorts together we just like each others ideas. If that is your only reason almost all of this thread should be consider trolls
Everything you put here (almost) is about tearing us down and keeping us from taking effective action, same for others on the list, but hey it's my list, like you always say we each get our own opinion.
i don't this movement to end i want they way it goes about getting it mean to end. I think this movement ill never be able to settle in the middle class.
This movement as started for beautiful ideas but now it has taken on to many task and attacking the wrong people. Every time there is a march on something that isn't wall street or for economic justice we lose people and time. This movement should not take the world on and solve every issue known to man. It should focus on one thing our economy and how we as a group are going to fix it. Thats why i dont like movement sometimes, it has ADHD.
Also if i see someone lying about statistics or anything that i have a knowledge of i will call them out on it
Hi Dan. You and I don't agree very often and have gotten into it more than once.
I would accept you as a dissident, because despite our sometimes heated discussions, I can't recall you ever stooping to pointless name calling, or poo flinging.
There are a lot of strong, polar opinions expressed here and it's often difficult to maintain that restraint.
For that, I thank you, even though I still don't agree with you.....:).
I will keep an eye out and see if dan needs to come off the list though, I respect you
We do need some honest dissent. It's always useful to reexamine our positions.
Like I said about Dan, he has strong opinions, but I can't recall him devolving into the "occutard" kind of crap a true troll does when at a loss for truth that supports his position.
You never know, we may turn some of them around...................:)
still waiting for any of these guys to actually make a case for letting Rs gain/hold office, the thing is a lot are really here to keep us devided from the Ds
Most of them just parrot the crap from "wrong wing" media.
One of the hardest things I've tried to do, is get people to understand and accept that we are have been for some time.
The Plutocratic States of the Military Industrial Complex.
Toss in the fact that the Pentagon stated a few years ago that the greatest threat to US security is global warming, and at least you can start understanding what's going on.
They are truly afraid of a panic among the populace.
I don't mind name calling, I've been to school and everything, I don't see any of these people talking about anything except trying to tear us down, but people do go on and off the list from time to time
I've been around for a while, and it does get frustrating answering different iterations of the same question all the time.
That's what often leads to the name calling.
If they started wholesale banning, I wonder how many of us would be left?
please I can see how you would think that's what I mean, not at all I developed the list for those times when one of them drops in with a freash bunch of crap, (I never let them outline the discussion anyway but) sometime rather than just repeat the line I want to let them know that I know who they are and why they're here. so I have seen serveral "troll" posts but that didn't seem effective, so I made my own, and relist it so all who read will know that persons on the list only tear us down, I always glance over their posts first to make sure they are not real, like richard gates, or trevor, they both think I'm a dem shill at least for awhile they did, but they are people who believe in what we are doing, I don't think it's bad to point out people who are here to hurt us.
I ain't mad at ya facts. Keep on keepin' on.
I will disagree on the point of trolls offering fresh crap. I feel it's been being recycled since the first month. They just paste the same crap onto the news story of the day.
If you want to keep providing the lists, please do.....:)
To help in other ways......Vote! I've suffered temporary bans for voting too much too fast.
I wonder how some of the trolls ever maintain a positive rep.
My philosophy is vote up the good guys and vote down the bad.
Note, I lost a point in the post over yours.
I have noticed the uptick in "voting" I saw bensdad get down voted all he said was something nice, trevor down votes anythging I say, this whole forum thing is new to me, but I'm starting to figure it out.
You've been getting better at this every day facts..................:)
You've picked a tough name to live up to, but I think you've lived up to it.
It comes from Al Franken, though he's too far right for me, he said everyone’s entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts, he may have been quoting someone.
that's fine i understand that we cant see eye to eye and that is normal i will just try to reach a medium between things or gain understanding
That's all any of us can ask of one another......:)
good
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That's exactly what the opening poster is talking about. If I disagree with you, you start cursing at me and calling me names.
Names??
Cursing???
You come back on this a day later and act like you were insulted by a post in which I insulted no one?
The formerly banned, do come back and bitch about being banned, and feign innocence about the reason.
If a single use of the term "bitching", offends you and insults you, even though it wasn't aimed at you? You may be more comfortable in a more heavily modded forum anyway.
I really don't see your post as a response to what I posted.
Even worse is that I get deleted and banned because I have a differing opinion. I am not rude or otherwise over the top. I just voice my opinion and get banned. I'm sure this comment will be deleted as well as every single comment that I've ever made on this one-sided site has been.
It's getting hard to distinguish the thoughtful dissenters from the trolls. I think that's the nature of the forum (and the Internet). I do think there should be bigger restrictions--which should have been in place from the beginning.
I remember months ago when the posters were more open to discussing alternate opinions. I think it's a larger issue having to do with the trolls, which makes people react negatively and become defensive toward dissenters who they believe to be trolls. Honestly, after frequenting this forum for the past week (having taken a many month hiatus) I'm on the fence believing whether or not you are in fact a troll, which you may not be.
But that's the nature of this ridiculous forum.
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Lol. You expected this to go somewhere? This forum's very anarchy is what's destroying it as it is not meant for serious discussion. I'm sorry that you thought it was.
No i knew this would turn in to every forum. honestly if we could post images it would be one step away from 4chan
You are right. But to the regulars here that won't matter.
explain
There is no such thing as a medium here. You either agree with the left or you don't.
yeah i noticed someone disliked that comment meaning there is some truth behind it
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People are trying to divide us, because we don't want the GOP, they say we are the dividers, when it’s them who want to divide us from the largest group of people who mostly feel like we do, the democrats are not just a party, they are of all of the people too, people who have been doing this awhile, that's all, why divide ourselves from those who think like we do?
The forum is much better in that regard than it used to be. Were you here when the Tr@shy gang were oppera ting. Man, they posted some stuff you wouldn't believe!
The objective of a lot of trolls on this forum has been to lower the tone of the debate by using the most insulting invective imaginable, and then if you call them on it they scream, "CENSORSHIP!"
yeah but its got bad about debating i really just want to be able to bounce off ideas but no one will do that in a nice way. But it is the internet we cant have that since most people dont view the other side as a human. Its the stormtrooper effect
This forum may be dying but the movement is growing. Just tweet any occupation and you'll see.
Hey, I thought this was about revolution??
Drastic changes...in thought, words and deeds... So obviously those who think they are forward thinking are mistaken about themselves because this forum is not showing it, obviously! Unless you address what has brought this country to this point...then the same mistakes will be made, over and over, and over.
If one doesn't change the pattern, the outcome remains the same! I for one would rather see individuals come out of the closet and let their hair down so we can view their true, scuse the phrase, "colors" Unless individuals are addressing their innate hatreds, bigotry, fundamental indoctrination, their inability to become progressive thinkers with love for humanity, my question is this....Who in their right mind would want this government to be overthrown and taken over by dumb ass feeble minded people who think the same, act the same and continue with the same MO as those who created this mess in the first damn place? As the saying goes, out of the fire and into the frying pan! Address all societies issues, otherwise OW.S is just a figure head like any other pathetic leader!!
who or what is OW?
Occupy Walls?
My question precisely...
Do you mean Occupy, or OWS (Occupy Wall Street)?
how can a 'movement' be a figure head? Whatever are you on about?
In other words....where is this movement going since it has it's own agenda, just like the rest of society....Stop trying to dissect everything and concentrate on the meaning.......Change the mind set or...oh never mind....those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it... A figure head is just that, a piece of wood that has no real power but can be seen at the front. What problems are truly being addressed by OWS? Certainly not reality for that segment of society whose ancestors have been fighting and paving the way long before any of us were born.... As everything else in this country...it serves its purpose for those other than...you finish the sentence.
I can not finish your sentence, as I have absolutely no idea what you are attempting to say? Sorry but there is no idea or even a continuous thought here;
"Certainly not reality for that segment of society whose ancestors have been fighting and paving the way long before any of us were born.... As everything else in this country...it serves its purpose for those other than...you finish the sentence."
What ? Perhaps you should stick to a basic sentence structure, you know; subject-verb-object, to make your ideas understood as the above is unintelligible.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subject%E2%80%93verb%E2%80%93object
Here goes....."Certainly not reality for that segment of society whose ancestors have been fighting and paving the way long before any of us were born." ...people of color, descendants of the first original inhabitants on these shores, alleged minorities and immigrants of central america....Asiatics who were renamed after being oppressed, i.e. blacks, negros, coloreds, etc....alleged native americans....and so on and so on. So....reality is OWS has nothing to do with the plight of those individuals and those nations......NOW THAT IS A REALITY NO ONE WANTS TO FACE ON THIS FORUM. As I stated before OWS has its own agenda, and until it addresses the true issues of race, birthrights, the haves and the have nots (which by the way began with the oppression of the original people here) hey...it is a cause whose agenda has nothing to do with those above cultures and nothing will ever change on these shores! So there.....are you happy now child with the rose colored glasses on???? This forum is useless for a great number of people!
interesting so what do you say they do
Actually, there is nothing they can do......as a whole since all this is fixed. This is where reality steps in....
All I am saying is, OWS is great....but I don't feel sorry for those who ignored the handwriting on the wall. It is up to each individual to search within themselves to understand why all this madness continues! When each individual does that, just like the spokes of a wheel, it will all mesh together, either for the good of the country, or the complete demise of the country! Don't believe me....but this is just a test!!!
ok ok
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Nope wrong perspective though I know how you could come to the belief.
You have supporters of Occupy ( true supporters ) that are here to support the fight against corruption and greed in any legal way possible.
You have supporters of Occupy ( true supporters ) that are here to support the fight against corruption and greed in any way possible.
You have supporters of Occupy ( true supporters ) that are here to support the fight against corruption and greed in any legal way possible. That want to unite with all people with the same values in common cause.
You have supporters of Occupy ( true supporters ) that are here to support the fight against corruption and greed in any legal way possible. Who will only unite with people of the same belief system.
Repeat same for: You have supporters of Occupy ( true supporters ) that are here to support the fight against corruption and greed in any way possible.
Then you have the agent provocature who is here to sow divisiveness and start fights and discredit the movements against corruption and greed.
All but the last listed will bump heads and argue methods and approaches the last on the list could give a shit about any of it as long as it gets it's way - division and never ending fights. The foiling of any and all chance at any kind of unity.
im guess that is a chant you said at the last occupy
it is true but we need more of different values to get this thing back to speed