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Forum Post: Things he should of said, add your own:

Posted 1 year ago on Oct. 4, 2012, 7:01 a.m. EST by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

"Governor Romney wants to lower the rates by 5 trillion and says he will pay for it by closing loopholes, but we can't find'em and he won't tell us what they are."

“I know my opponent knows our tax code, he’s profited well from it, but like his own taxes he likes to keep his plans close to vest.”

“I'd like Governor Romney to tell us how he plans to get 47% of Americans to accept responsibility for their lives.”

173 Comments

173 Comments


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[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (20509) 1 year ago

He should have said people are suffering in this country and that we should cut military spending to pay for the programs that people need, not the programs.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

I dream of a time when a statement like that would gain votes, it might now if someone had the guts to say it, thank you, good one....

[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (20509) 1 year ago

I've been sitting here wondering why Obama is so weak. Why is he so afraid to say that people matter. I don't get it. I know many Americans lionize corporations and the wealthy, their screwed up version of success, per se, but have we really reached this point? Obama seems ashamed to defend the poor. If this is the case, we are in big trouble.

[-] 3 points by bettydonnelly (115) 1 year ago

I heard Tavis Smiley on his PBS talk show the other day mention in all the back and forth between Obama and Romney the word "poor" was used almost never. Both parties and their candidates are totally corrupt. I am a huge fan of Occupy, that being said I think its time for Occupy to be the catalyst for a Third Political Party.

[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 1 year ago

The reason is that "middle class" is the new "poor." See synonym.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

houses that the salary could never pay for

[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 1 year ago

Gee, I didn't get one of those.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

didn't keep it neither

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 1 year ago

Didn't get it, and didn't keep it, and don't still have it, neither.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (20509) 1 year ago

I think OWS is more of a social movement than a political movement and that social change brings forth big political change, but I definitely get where you are going.

[-] 2 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Its hard to rally for the people that you have been actively screwing for 4 years. Obama knows there is no way out of this mess, and I think Mitt is dumb enough to think there is.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (20509) 1 year ago

I think Mitt doesn't care if we get out of this mess so long as he and his friends are not financially affected.

[-] 4 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

I think the same can be said for most of Congress. Take away their benefits.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (20509) 1 year ago

Agreed.

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Never a truer word spoken.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (20509) 1 year ago

And, Obama has given up. A recipe for disaster.

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Sounds like you've given up, sorry if that's harsh, Obama was never Hillary, but that's who won, we either help or don't it's up to us.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (20509) 1 year ago

Obama was apologetic, had his head down, barely looked into the camera. He is the one who has given up. I will continue to push harder for change but he does not appear to be the vessel for the change that I want and this may not be through any fault of his own.

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

That may be true, but you must be prepared to accept that your lack of support could mean 8 years of Romney and a 7/2 conservative court for the next thirty years.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (20509) 1 year ago

I am not lacking support. For Christ's sake I'm trying to get this man to wake up. I have no delusions that he is only slightly better than Romney, but the slightly is a big deal to a lot of people.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

I guess we each help in our own way.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (18001) 1 year ago

A highly relevant link = "Expanding the Debate Exclusive : Third Party Candidates Break the Sound Barrier As Obama-Romney Spar", by 'Democracy Now!' :

This is what an functional media can look like outside the BS-MSM Propaganda Bubble !!!

spero meliora ...

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Jill confirmed what i already thought, i don't think she is near up to the job, she spent almost all of her time complaining and hardly any telling us her vision, in the first response, only about 10 or 15 seconds on green jobs but about the same details as Romney's loopholes, even in the health care question she only complained about Obama/Romney care and then agreed with Rocky about single payer.

Rocky on the other hand, came right out with single payer, raising the SS cap (I think it should be removed) and applying SS tax to all forms of income, that's in my bio so you know how I feel about that. He went on to make reverent and constructive criticism of national security policy.

There was no effort by either to distinguish themselves form each other, something I thought might happen, but still between Rocky and Jill as far as this debate goes it's a clear win for Rocky, I would say he beat the other two guys as well.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (18001) 1 year ago

Jill Sanders, Bernie Sanders, Ralph Nader, Cynthia McKinney, Gary Johnson, Ricky Anderson and others are deprived of the platform they deserve and the contituencies they represent by The Wholly Owned Corporate MSM.

Thus also see : "The Secret GOP-Dem Effort to Shut Out Third Parties", by Alexander Reed Kelly :

fiat justitia ruat caelum ...

[-] 1 points by yobstreet (-575) 1 year ago

It's not that he is afraid; it's that the thought has never occurred to him. He's done nothing at all for the poor except exasperate the divide.

[-] 1 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

exacerbate?

[-] 0 points by yobstreet (-575) 1 year ago

Neh, I like my spelling better. Perhaps I should have used the word "accentuate"? Do we only accentuate the positive; can we also accentuate the negative? Questions without answers, they ply the mind, to no end.

[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 1 year ago

aggrevate?

[-] -1 points by yobstreet (-575) 1 year ago

Aggrevate would be a good word; sure, I like it.

[-] 1 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

"And don't mess with Mr. in between."

Bing sang a song all about it.

[-] 1 points by yobstreet (-575) 1 year ago

I'm hearing a little Burl Ives, and a little Willy, too. Ain't no crime in neutrality, unless your side is losing.

[-] 2 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Silence is complicity!

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (20509) 1 year ago

That is just not true of Obama, and you know it. He is, perhaps, intimidated by the right and Citizens United is a big part of this. Speak in defense of the poor and we pull our money. It is almost like blackmail.

[-] 0 points by yobstreet (-575) 1 year ago

Obama has pulled more money out of the northeast in terms of grants that aid the poor than any president in recent history - we've lost tens of millions in services to the poor, and we've lost non profit jobs in the process.

[-] -2 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Your completely full of shit, Obama has spent his life helping people when he could of been CEO of Godfather's pizza easy like.

[-] 3 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Shit and guns, I'd guess RW Rush and Boortz radio, too.

[-] -1 points by alva (-442) 1 year ago

explain how barry could have been a ceo. what do you base that fantasy on? why did barry and his wife "voluntarily" surrender their law licenses?

[-] -1 points by marvelpym (-184) 1 year ago

Too bad he didn't. The CEO of Godfather's creates jobs and feeds the hungry.

And why did you pick that chain? Is that the only chain a black man can be in charge of? You and Shooz are soooo prejudiced.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

The one we all know didn't "create" jobs, he shut half'em down and laid people off, didn't you know that?

[-] -2 points by marvelpym (-184) 1 year ago

You just don't like him because he is black. Not all humans are racist, but all racists are human. Chew on that one.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

You can chew on whatever you want don't change the fact that Cain didn't create jobs, he made his money the same way Romney did by getting rid of jobs.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

A lot of the problem is people like hc here, in the video we saw, it talks about 85% of the people think corporations have too much power if they vote that way in Nov then you will see changes, but they won't because people like hc has them thinking they don't have a real choice, we get the government we deserve , sad to say we don't face up to the truth and speak it out loud enough.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (20509) 1 year ago

I'm not sure that's true, really. What I think it is is that, yes, 85% of Americans think corporations have too much power, but they don't really understand the consequences of that power and they still lionize corporations. They love their consumerist, materialist society. And, I don't always agree with him, but hchc is right about a lot of things.

Perhaps we could use an additional video to go over how exactly how corporate power affects the average American. I think there is a loss of understanding in the connection between corporate power itself and the election outcomes and actual policy and how it affects society and the economy and, in the end, real people's lives.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

we want to point our figures at him, but will we tell the truth, or are we afraid somebody might not like us, maybe they will call us names, I can't see how anybody can look at this mess and not see that the GOP must go...

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

hc is a con troll

It is clear the the GOP stand firmly with corporations and for the interest of the very wealthy, if we won't stand firm and speak out loud the TRUTH that the GOP must be removed from public office, we can hardly blame our leaders for shying away from the truth too.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (20509) 1 year ago

The truth is, though, that Obama stands with the corporations, too. I know that is a hard pill to swallow, but with Citizens United that is the way it is. He has no choice. I think that overturning Citizens United should be our number one goal. I do agree that the GOP is worse.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

I'll wait till you get a chance to read my other comment.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Not sure how you see him saying he will raise taxes on the top 1% and cut corporate loopholes, he does want to lower corporate tax rates, but would offset that by raising cap gains tax, I think we should treat all income the same for income and SS tax i know he hasn't said that, but the best thing I can do for my country is defeat a Republican and that seems pretty clear to me.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

If He Is Truly For The People - it shows how out of touch he is with reality and that his campaign has been truly weak as the issue of the growing numbers of poor in this country should top his agenda in pointing out the ills of current practice.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (20509) 1 year ago

Exactly. How many people formerly of the "middle class" have fallen into poverty? How does he not address this? He doesn't address this because poverty is a dirty word in this country. People are blamed individually for what lacks in the economic system that keeps them down and over which they have no control. I'm so sick of listening to the right shaming the poor.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

It is a very clear example/message - that if he wanted to do the fire and brimstone attack on the ills of government and business practices - that he is not because he would get shutdown by all who have money and are currently feeding his campaign.

This more then anything else illustrates the need for local state by state actions/elections/legislation/campaigns are needed to get good people in office representing the people - this is where our opportunity lies in making positive change.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (20509) 1 year ago

I hope you are right, but the local elections produced the current Congress, no?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Yes - with the peoples tacit consent by opting out. That needs to change - we can not opt out any longer.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (20509) 1 year ago

True.

[-] 0 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 1 year ago

bw, I have been thinking/saying for some time now that if Romney and the (R)s gain power you can hang it up for Occupy. Progressive/radical change as is proposed on this forum will be rendered moot, Plutocracy will ascend to dominance, and social Darwinism will be the norm. Please explain it to me how it could be any different. We know what these people are all about. They don't even try to hide it anymore like they once did. If Romney wins the people are done for.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (20509) 1 year ago

It is very disappointing. I think, though, with regard to Occupy, we may get stronger if Romney wins. If the right takes hold and strengthens I think the left may hit back even harder. Hey, I know I will and you will and jart will. Maybe even the American people will begin to wake up.

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 1 year ago

You may have a point. The American people will have to have their noses firmly shoved in shit before they move one inch off the couch though. I fear that by then it will be too late (it may, in fact, already be too late). The other disturbing fact is that this is a Center-Right country. I simply don't think we have the numbers. Even if every Left-leaning American in the country stood up and got active, we are outnumbered about 2 to 1. So I find that fact depressing.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (20509) 1 year ago

Me too, but circumstances and the economic environment can change the way people think rather quickly.

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 1 year ago

I certainly hope you're right. That would be our only hope.

[-] -1 points by Clicheisking (-210) 1 year ago

You really don't get it do you?

[-] -2 points by TheRazor (-329) 1 year ago

Cutting military spending puts people out of work. The federal budget is like a huge rubiks cube. Why do peope on this site think that military spending is just so easy to trim? Machinists, suppliers, truckers, engieers, farmers are paid to supply the military. Cut it, but realize real people will lose their jobs.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (20509) 1 year ago

The money can be spent in more positive ways for the long term, building infrastructure, investing in education, perhaps.

[-] -2 points by TheRazor (-329) 1 year ago

So you are going on record as saying the massive unemployment that DOD defense cuts will cause is worth it for jobs in the future?

Lets give a concrete example: Do we really need GREAT LAKES NAVAL BASE? The people of Waukegan and North Chicago, the barbers and car dealers can just go bankrupt when we close that base?

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (20509) 1 year ago

Are you going on record saying that we need war? I'll go on record saying that money can be invested in more positive ways such as building infrastructure, employing more teachers, etc. not in building bombs, imperialistic actions and killing innocent civilians.

[-] -1 points by TheRazor (-329) 1 year ago
[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

thanks

[-] -3 points by TheRazor (-329) 1 year ago

It was a yes or no question and you ducked it. Not very brave, are you?

Anyone can make fairy tale pablum decisions that really arent decision but ways to make himself feel good. Now you have a chance to show courage. Trim the military budget with speciifics so we know exvtly who will be thrown out of work. There are 700,000 civilians employed by the DOD, plus another 450000 military personnel. You're in charge for today only, who loses ther jobs and their future?

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (20509) 1 year ago

I didn't duck anything, you moron. They should all lose those jobs and society should provide jobs for them that actually benefit people rather than kill people.

[-] 2 points by Renneye (3173) 1 year ago

Amen!

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (20509) 1 year ago

LOL! :)

[-] 2 points by Renneye (3173) 1 year ago

I have such time constraints these days, bw...that I am not able to offer much more than very short answers any more.....when all I wanna do is write, write, write! Sighhh! And just when the forum is getting interesting and exciting again too! I'll have to leave it solely up to you to keep the forum 'ful' of 'beauti'! I must say, I enjoy your spicier comments equally. ^.~

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (20509) 1 year ago

Thanks. Life gets in the way for all of us sometimes, so just do what you can.

[-] 2 points by Renneye (3173) 1 year ago

Will do, beautiful!

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 1 year ago

Yes, any government paid job that is only for the purpose of securing a paycheck ultimately has to go in favor of a job that increases the leverage/competitiveness of the country. Building a bridge out ranks sitting in front of an empty radar screen.

A teacher beats somebody sitting in a barracks.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

competing will get us a prize from the powers

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 1 year ago

Whoopee

[-] 1 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Green energy, get to know it. No casualties, product doesn't explode.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Military spending creates the fewest jobs of any government spending we do, cutting anywhere else cost more jobs. Sure if we can convince the GOP to do the right thing and raise taxes to cover the deficit, if they want to cut it, then sure let's not cut spending and lose jobs, but if we cut any spending we should start with the palace that creates the fewest jobs.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Stop making sense (having fun here). I assure you the GOP won't listen and would rather die than see a funding nuetral DOD Budget. Remember how they hated Bill Clinton. In the end Clinton provided a neutral DOD budget that trended upward in his presidency. There was not loss to DOD Spending under Clinton.

The plump DOD budget should be addressed by cutting hardware (programs). I don't think GOP would allow employees or uniformed service members to be reduced. In fact I suspect that the GOP would rather increase the number of either uniformed personnel or uniformed and civlian personnel.

So I would guess cut the DOD budget for long term programs and let the Pentagon choose what to cut, then allow them to add empoyee and add uniform members. You ought to be able to cut to $600 Billion in the first year, and have them cut to $550 B in the following year, etc. I doubt you would ever get them down past $500 B, but that is probably what I would say is the right number. I'm guessing this year spending was like $650 B.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

bottom line is we spend about 5 or 6 times what the number two does and it gets us into more trouble than it prevents...

[-] 0 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Yes, we should go back to 1998 or 2000 when the budget was $300 Billion. I told you it was fat and plump. And eventhough the Iraq war is supposed to be over the budget went down like $25-50 B is all.

And guess what the defense vendor payments have trippled from $98 B to like $300 B today.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Cheney knows how to make money, for him and his friends, alright.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Truly sad day to see the emergence of for profit mercenaries contracting with our government.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

It is sad these people will become the face of America.

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 1 year ago

It is even sadder that the American people are too stupid (or apathetic) or, even worse, actually agree with these dollars for death policies. Conservatives love the MIC because it is a huge cash cow.

[-] 3 points by ZenDog (20447) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

Corporations are NOT people

my friend

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

good one and catchy

[-] 1 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

The impoverished are not preferred customers, sought after consumers or anyone's vital constituency. How can we change that? or go around it?

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

In America the wealthy have created the impression that only the lazy are poor (or dumb) when the truth is the poor can't afford to be lazy or dumb only those born wealthy can do that. We are so afraid of "crossing" the line like for instance I don't think anyone has asked Romney if he thinks "handouts" are so bad why did he give his sons such huge "handouts" and the thing is we want to be that person that fixes it so our children will be secure forever, so it's off limits. When we are able to see into our own hearts we will be able see the truth, what we need is a Pope that cares as much about the poor as he does about his own prejudice. Our religious leaders have become extensions of the state's oppression of individuals instead of champions of the poor.

[-] 1 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

In America the wealthy assume divine supremacy and command GOP cult worship, while religion engages in mutual exploitation and control of the unruly masses. And the poor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czfpnkW_Scs

I'm not sure which religious group Thom Hartman has on occasionally, but they seem reasonable and sound something like this: http://progressivechristianity.org/ ;
http://www.progressivechristianalliance.org/Blog/

I feel religion is an enormous hoax and fraud.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Thanks for the links, I think like most things, it's what you make of it that matters. I can see the comfort in thinking that those who make decisions that affect your life has somewhat similar moral system, religion serves that purpose, how much it reflects reality is in question IMO.

[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 1 year ago

Tap "edit", select "of", type "have", select "save", and click..

[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 1 year ago

"should have said"

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

If you want to talk to folks you got to learn to speak American.

(Let me expand on that, I got a theory, that all English professors are pissed off wantabe writers.)

[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 1 year ago

I have been speaking American longer than you have and perhaps more correctly. "of" is an article, "have" is a verb. I admire the content of your posts but we all make stylistic and grammatical errors from time to time. I think you have a hypothesis, which is not relevant to me. I have published a couple of books and written an opinion column for a chain of newspapers. I have been corrected by several editors, for which I was grateful.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

folks make mistakes alright two come to mind, Twain and Cummings...

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 1 year ago

It's along list. Can't think of anyone who isn't on it.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

I've had a wide array of reactions from English profs, from exuberance to bitter contempt. Didn't mean to color you with that brush, I'm at a point in life where I've accepted my shortcomings and rules don't worry me so much either. As far as editors go America's 24/7 news networks could sure use some.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 1 year ago

The "obsolete" print media seems to be using random middle school students who spend about 7 seconds per story editing by invoking the spell and grammar check feature on their iPad on every third story and cutting the sources if any referenced by the AP stories they pick up which have no relevance to what is actually happening in their community. If they actually read them, (and obviously they don't) they might catch the misused homonyms, if they knew what homonyms are.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

I try to look at a number of sides of things, for instance I see an interesting aspect to google news, how the people build the paper with their clicks, not that people are so smart and all, it's more the development of a collective mind I find interesting. When i think of all we should be talking about and what resources are available between three 24/7 networks, then what we actually hear about, it is depressing, and of course google news is driven by that too. It does seem though that people are waking up to the insanity of the GOP "All Tax Cut, All the Time" policies.

[-] 2 points by Shayneh (-482) 1 year ago

The bottom line with Romney is - he wants the private sector to get us out of the recession -

Obama wants the government to get us out of the recession - QE-3 and still no change. He boasted about 5 million new jobs created but he failed to mention about the 4.5 million jobs that were lost during the same time.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

It was 5 million net jobs, you do much math?

Romney wants to secure America for the Great Families and fuck the rest haven't you ever heard him speak?

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/09/watch-full-secret-video-private-romney-fundraiser

[-] 0 points by Buttercup (1067) 1 year ago

The 5 million is a 30 month number. The more logical place to start when the Pres. policies started taking affect. Rather than the job losses that were occuring during Bush's term and carried over through the beginning of the Pres. term.

http://mediamatters.org/research/2012/10/04/cnns-faulty-fact-check-dings-obama-over-accurat/190363

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jan/16/mitt-romney/mitt-romney-tweets-more-americans-have-lost-their-/

And it was largely the private sector that got us in this mess. The private sector will do little to help employment when there is lack of broad based demand in the economy. No demand, means no job creation.

And QE is Fed monetary policy, not fiscal policy, and has little to nothing to do with the Pres. You do know what the Federal Reserve is don'tcha? They are required to use the tools available to them to fulfill their dual mandate of achieving maximum employment and maintaining price and interest rate stability.

But Romney's going to to pull 12 million jobs out of his ass with a budget plan that has been destroyed by every serious economist on the planet. And don't even get me started with that batshit crazy Ayn Rand running mate of his. Draco himself Paul Ryan. The batshit crazy 'intellectual' leader of the Batshit Crazy Party. Here to save the country by privatizing social security, privatize education, privatize every goddammed thing the Koch Bros tells them to. And we'll have a government so small it can fit in my vagina and own my uterus. Sure. That'll help.

[-] 1 points by Shayneh (-482) 1 year ago

So let me ask - do you really things will change with Obama re-elected, if the house and senate control remain the same?

I doubt it and as a result you will have another 4 more years of a "stagnent economy" because businesses in this country just won't do anything because Obama creates uncertanty.

[-] 1 points by Buttercup (1067) 1 year ago

Yes yes I do. Because it's likely that millions of jobs will be created simply through the natural cycle of recovery. Assuming everything else stays relatively stable (European debt crisis, no disruption in oil supply, etc). 'Obama creates uncertainty' - pure bullshit. This is private industry code for 'give us tax breaks and less regulations'. Of course they want this. This is the easiest way for a business to increase profits. That's their job. Profit maximization. There is zero reason to believe this will do anything but make the wealthy wealthier. It won't create jobs. Jobs are created only when there is an increase in demand to warrant it.

Companies are posting record profits and have record amounts of cash on hand. They aren't constrained by cash, capacity or labor. There is plenty of cash and excess capacity. It's not a supply side problem. It's a demand problem. They aren't investing or producing more because there is no increase in demand to warrant it. Now if you want to believe the bullshit of private industry when the economic facts say the opposite, you think that private industry are such fragile flowers that they give some whiny ass cockin bullshit about 'uncertainty', you are absurdly naive. Private enterprise operates with multitudes of uncertainties as a normal course of business. It's just easier and more profitable for them to whine about the government because whining about their competitors doesn't work. Whining about the government works. Because people like you are naive enough to believe that cockin bullshit.

Why do you think they spend untold billions lobbying the government. Because it's profitable. Tens of thousands of percent ROI. Returns that consistently outperform any other investment. Do you really think they need you to help them too? Don't let the supply side bullshit eat your brain.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2012/01/06/144737864/forget-stocks-or-bonds-invest-in-a-lobbyist

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/presenting-greatest-roi-opportunity-ever

http://www.economist.com/node/21531014

The biggest impediment to small business success is not the government. It's big business. It's monopolies. Small businesses don't have the ability to lobby government as effectively as big business. Small businesses don't have the economies of scale that a big business has. Small business can't take advantage of slave wages in China like large multinationals. Small business has a more difficult time accessing capital. Because our financial system has become the biggest casino gambling operation the world has ever known. The six biggest banks hold assets equal to 63 percent of the country’s GDP v 1995 17%. With derivatives in the range of $200-300 trillion dollars. That's at least 3 times the amount of the entire world economy.

When that blows up again, any concentrated amount of those bets get called in, just like the housing bubble bursting, say goodbye to the economy as we know it. Starting with breaking up the Wall Street monopoly would be the best thing that could happen for small business and the economy.

http://www.dallasfed.org/assets/documents/fed/annual/2011/ar11.pdf
But oh no. Republicans wouldn't dream of using anti-trust and 'interfering' with private enterprise. They couldn't even bring themselves to vote for financial reform after the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression. They'll just wait for Wall Street to destroy the economy again. And let the 'free market' take care everything. Because that works oh so well.

Have you researched the Paul Ryan budget. A person who believes in basing public policy on a piece of third rate hack fiction. It's the most Draconian piece of crap ever to come out of Congress. Not the least of which - it will end Medicare, end Social Security and give $265k tax breaks to millionaires while decimating social programs and education funding. It was unanimously voted for by Republicans. Romney called it 'marvelous'. A right wing sponsored research group conducted focus groups on the Ryan budget. The description of the results was that the Ryan budget was 'so cartoonishly evil' that the focus groups didn't believe it was real. Except it is. So what Romney thinks is 'marvelous', focus groups called 'cartoonishly evil'. Doesn't this tell you something?

What do you think will happen if Ryan/Romney wins the election. They will absolutely try to implement their cartoonishly evil budget. Except it won't be funny. They will do the same thing every Republican administration has done since Reagan. Increase military spending. Probably by taking us into war. Again. Without paying for. Again. And - reduce taxes for the wealthy. Again. Another triple whammy to the debt. On top of the triple whammy under Bush. On top of the triple whammy under Reagan. And that's why we have the debt. It's called right wing fuckshitup-onomics. And they will try to pay for it on the backs of the poor and working poor. And most likely the middle class too.

That's their playbook. Trickle-down mythical bullshit, tax cuts for the wealthy, plus massive amounts of military spending that never gets paid for. Starting with Reagan. Except Pres. Bush Sr. who rightly called it voodoo economics. And then! Then! Then they have the fucking audacity to blame the debt on the most underprivileged and weakest in society. Because it's just so fucking convenient and easy to blame the poor. Because poor people don't have lobbyists and SuperPacs. They only have their vote. And they want to try to take that away too. Wealthy people and corporations don't need to vote. They just buy their legislation. Plus they're getting lots of help from people like you.

And after they do that, reduce the size of government , so small it will fit in my vagina and own my uterus - they will appoint 2 or 3 Supreme Court Justices. So - if they can't get the states to ratify their amendment to own my uterus, they will have a majority of the Court to do it. And take womens rights back 50 or 70 years. And we will have a majority right wing Court for the next 20 years or so. Appointed and approved by the most extreme right wing politicians perhaps in history.

The current Republicans and the knuckle dragging Tea Party idiots, all bought and paid for by the Koch Bros, are the most extreme, anti-humane, privatize everything we can get our hands on, let Wall Street and large corps run amok trampling everything in their path to higher profits, exhault the wealthy with more government assistance, reverse womens rights, turn our country into a theocratic nation state, screw the poor, wage more war, ALEC loving, kleptocracy loving screwballs this country has ever known. This is what you will get with Republicans in power. So if all this sounds appealing to you, go ahead and vote for that.

[-] 1 points by Ache4Change (3025) 1 year ago

"The biggest impediment to small business success is not the government. It's big business. It's monopolies." and "Trickle-down mythical bullshit, tax cuts for the wealthy, plus massive amounts of military spending that never gets paid for." AND "Then they have the fucking audacity to blame it on the most underprivileged and weakest in society. Because it's just so fucking convenient and easy to blame the poor. Because poor people don't have lobbyists and SuperPacs." - were my favorite lines in there and there are lots of really excellent lines.

I read it all twice and it made more sense second time around. You are a teacher so on 'World Teachers Day', I'll say thank-you and do my little bit to help with - http://vimeo.com/24981578 ['Inside Job'] - because so much of what you wrote seems to have a (dis)connection to the fraudulent false-finance economy and I've just watched that excellent film.

I really think that the economy would be better if people like you were heard more and I hope that our economy never shrinks to the size you describe!

Thank-you 'teacher'.

[-] 1 points by Buttercup (1067) 1 year ago

I don't know about the 'teacher' part. Our 'public' school teachers are way way better than me for all that they do. The sad part is, our society is being brainwashed into vilifying them. While worshipping private industry, the wealthy and Wall Street. Which is simply part of the right wing scheme to create hatred of the public school system, in order to further defund public schooling in the effort to privatize education.

But thank you for the kind words. : )

[-] 1 points by Ache4Change (3025) 1 year ago

Like it or not 'Buttercup', you ARE a teacher! Why does Wall St. and those 'up there' hate the rest of us - The Majority, so much? Why do they treat us with so much disrespect and then still ask us to feed them our kids for their War Machine? Do they keep us stupid on purpose? I've been reading here for a few days as and when I can and I've learnt more in a week than from years of TV and (no)newspapers! If my words were kind it is only because yours were brilliant! Should I save a pitchfork for you too?

[-] 0 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

stop the road blocks to the future!
I think we should have an all-R government
end the unions
end medicare
end social security
end regulation
drill baby drill
let wallstreet be wall street
build soylent green factories everywhere

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (21783) 1 year ago

That first one you have up there, Facts? He didn't have to say it. Romney looked like a clown simply by repeating the same (have no real) information that said nothing. The second one as well.

"I love the media!", she said with sarcasm.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

He missed the point of saying that Romney wanted to lower the rates by 5 trillion and kept saying Romney was going to lower taxes by 5 trillion that allowed Romney to say it wasn't true (because of his mystery loopholes) it is a subtle but necessary tweak to keep a con on the hook, he never bought in the fact that Romney refuses to release his taxes and i do think there was opportunity to tie the unwillingness to revel his loopholes and his taxes.

But, thank you for your feedback.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (21783) 1 year ago

Transcript

versus style

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

If we read transcripts Nixon would have been President eight years sooner, but I hope you understand I offer this with love and in the interest of helping the healing...

PS thanks for the link bookmarked

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (21783) 1 year ago

Is that right?

Oh, I understand completely. Thanks.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Almost everyone who listened on the radio said Nixon walked away with it in 1960.

I wish it wasn't so, but what is,is.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (21783) 1 year ago

Well, I need to run out and buy the next issue of Vogue. I just might have to pick up Cosmo as well.

Catch you all later.

It is what it is.

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

Do you believe that a member of congress should be held accountable for signing a pledge this is in direct contadiction to his oath of office - such as the norquist pledge?

do you still subscribe to the ryan budget that you endorsed?

I will give up as much time as needed for you to explain which deductions you will cut.

Can you explain specifically - if I own $10,000 of stock and sell it to you
for $15,000 - specifically why there should be a low tax rate on my $5000 gain? and SPECIFICALLY how does this transaction benefit the company or the country?

Who benefits by eliminating the estate tax?

The constitution and our legislated laws never gave personhood rights to corpoations. WHy should they have more rights that real people?

How will your ryan plan affect YOUR taxes?

Specifically, how is your IRA worth more than $1.000.000?

What is in your past taxes that you are afraid to release?

There are today a number of businesses Bain is shipping to China.
what will you do to help those Americans?

WTF is clean coal ?
.
Just because we subsidized green jobs means we should subsidize oil companies?

[-] 1 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Got my vote

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

speaking about that first one I want any budget deal to include a pledge for every member to sign saying that if they do get the budget balanced they won't just turn around and cut taxes again like they did in 2001.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Damn good list, did Obama even have a prep team?

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

I would guess he did but speculation on how this stumble occurred is pointless.
Everyone, i ncluding his team MUST see things the same way and will be VERY tough in #2 & #3 Biden/ryan will NOT be like this
1 so much of ryan is randian bs
2 Biden must be prepared to state ryans support for the Russina "atheist" ayn rand
3 FUCK the rules - if the moderator does not ask follwups, Joe must
4 Biden must have specific votes where he and ryan differ
5 Biden must say "I will give up all of my time so you can explain how you are going to fill in the $5T hole created by your 20% tax cut bribe to the voters.

Will you cut the mortgage interest deduction?
Will you cut the charity deduction?
Will you cut the state & local tax deduction?

6 Why should cap gains tax be dropped?
7 do you have millions in foreign banks like willard does ?
8 specifically, what would you do to help the people fired by Bain


If ryan or the moderator complains about Binden asking ryan a question, Biden should say "

Is mr. ryan AFRAID to answer the question?"

[-] 1 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Biden is a statesman. Ryan's a puke. Joe was overly gracious with Mama Grizzly. He could either do the same with young-dumb Ryan, or go Raygun-Mondale. But Mondale was a statesman, too. If Joe still has it in him, he should give that punk a good old Pittsburgh trash can beating.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

G·O···J·O·E·!

[-] 1 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

I hope he's getting massive steroid therapy up until the last minute. JOE GO medieval on his punk ass!!

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

You're right about the past, I started this thinking that a lot of people here would have good ideals, his team will read them and he will crush next time, I know the chances, but hey sometimes I buy a lottery ticket too.

The ideals here have been really good too...mostly...

[-] 1 points by stevebol (1268) from Milwaukee, WI 1 year ago

I wonder if either will mention the 99 or 1 percent. That would make things more interesting.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

On the unspecified deductions you claim will pay for the tax cut for the 1%,

We've heard you & Ryan say:

  • We don't want to specify 'cause we will have to negotiate with congress.

  • We don't have time to go over all the math (is that like marathon time math?)

  • We don't want to specify all the deductions because your ratings will be hurt! (Oh they're so funny, they shouldhave a show, & probably will on fox)

  • Well maybe we'll do a deduction bucket limited to$17k. In this way Romney/Ryan/Repubs don't cut any middle class deductions but will hurt the middleclass because they will be unable to take all current deductions.

There have been, & will be other squirming and spinning by the repubs on this critical middle class tax increase and we must hear it from the Pres.

Don't give them a breath of air!

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

thanks again, must of hit a nerve here the con tolls are running through hitting everybody....

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

I'm sure.

Well done. That is the measure!

[-] 1 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Excuse me, can we get a moderator over here?

Is there a Fact Checker in the house?

Hey! You don't own this debate!

Come on, come on, put more nails in your political coffin with five networks and the rest of the world recording!

After 2010, I'm still not sure if I'll hand this over to Joe, or not.

Say "$700B from Medicare" one more time and watch my size-13 black foot kick your flat, pinched white ass off this mother fucking stage.

Hey Mitch, can you say "Rope-a-Dope"?

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

I love that first one, did Romney have to have the last word or what?

[-] 1 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

It's his turn!

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

just heard a focus group person say:


"I was impressed with romney because of all of the his hes got in the media" TRUE! SHE REALLY SAID THIS


she then went on to explain that with all of the media hits against Stalin, s he would vote for him too MAYBE SHE DID NOT SAY THIS


[-] 0 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

once the media crowns a winner, it's tough, I actually think Romney smrik a lot, was rude and always had to get the last word in even if it was to just repeat what he had already said, but the snap polls went for him and the media crowned him a winner and next week we find out who will be our next president most likely

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Obama should've said:

"you & repubs want to privatize & turn over SS to yr wall st friends"

"We know you don't want to help medicare;SS, or medicaid recipients 'cause we got the tape where you wrote them off and accused them of not taking responsibility for themselves"

"We know you understand the tax code cause you have avoided paying your fair share, by hiding your money overseas for decades. So why don't you come clean and tell us you can't cut enough deductions to cover the 20% tax cut for your 1% friends!"

"be honest and tell the American people that your plan for health care is let the low income people who can't afford private insurance go to the emergency room"

Thats a start.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Thanks keep'em coming...

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Yeah. Good post.

And good release after that lackluster performance.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

I figured we needed it...

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

LoL.

I think also the news needs a pro Romney story to keep the race interesting, and ratings up.

We'll see how it plays out. less than 5 weeks to go.

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

"Listen, Im already bought off. And so are you Mitt. And each of our parties have been for decades and decades. In fact, Jp Morgan bailed out the Gov way back in 1895.

Im powerless, and if you are elected, you will be too. You can try to do what you want, but you will end up with a bullet in the head. The amount of lies this government had told the people, BIG lies on war and terrorism, is astromonical.

Foreign policy is not what it seems. Domestic policy is so controlled by Insurance, Oil and Banks that you might as well just forget about it. Im not taking a bullet. Are you willing?

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by brightonsage (4494) 1 year ago

He should have said, "I appreciate you saying that you agree with me on taxes today, but you have taken an average of 14 different positions on each of the issues we have discussed since last year, and that would indicate that you agree with the average American regardless of party, on one specific issue about 3,8 % of the time. Do you think that is enough to satisfy the average voter?"

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

people are poor because they are stupid

stupid people deserve to be tricked

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

I guess it depends on your definition of "poor" a lot of people bought Facebook.

If you got something and somebody wants some of it, they get a little contempt along with, in many cases.

[-] 0 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

Early in the debate, willard claimed he was not creating a $5T drop in revenues
Obama was clearly very shocked by this blatant lie .
I think he was unprepared for an onslaught of .this lie and the following lies.
I think he kept looking down at his notes to find something he could use on this "altered" path. I find it absurd that he was not prepared for willard doing what willard has always done ▬► LIE◄▬.
He had better be prepared for the next two.


sure he should answer every question - but these is always an opportunity to "expand" a SHORT answer into what HE needs to say
for example, asked a question about domestic spending,
he could have detailed the success & job saving in GM or how he would NOT cut support for women's health care in Planned Parenthood

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

One must understand what passes for the truth in the GOP world, he kept saying Romney was going to cut taxes by 5 trillion but forgot about the mystery loophole cuts, he should of said Romney was cutting the tax RATES by 5 trillion, you have to be very precise to pin down an R, of course Obama doesn't have the years of experience I do dealing with the tricky bastards, I really don't think he ever thinks about how Clinton and Gore got bushwacked into the 5 cent a gallon tax when Clinton was raising taxes on people making over $250,000/yr, that nickel killed the whole sound bite and let the GOP say Clinton raised taxes on everybody, the GOP are in the game, I wish we were.

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

Tuesday, October 23rd: -Third Party Debate in Chicago

Sponsored by Free & Equal

Confirmed candidates: Gary Johnson, Jill Stein, Virgil Goode, Rocky Anderson

http://occupywallst.org/forum/tuesday-october-23rd-third-party-debate-in-chicago/

I'll be watching


[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

How did you like the 3rd party denate.?

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

I liked the debate a lot. It expanded the subjects not addressed by the 2 party candidates

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Yeah I agree. I wish we could get a 3rd party candidate.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

I hope the third parties cover all the 2 party debates

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Sure. I hope the MSM covers it for a minute. But that ain't gonna happen.

It sucks.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

It will be interesting if they actually debate and provide contrast between them or if they will just spend the whole time dumping on "the two party system".

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

one must wonder

rocky may spend sometime on foreign policy

jill on the environment

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

I'm sure they will, but will they draw comparisons between them or just with the people who aren't there, it's the difference in a debate or stump speech. Take Obama for instance last night he showed up to give a stump speech and Romney show up to a debate, he lied through the whole thing but that doesn't matter, unless you care about the truth and many don't. Will I be able to watch it from the link? I looked but wasn't sure if it would be broadcast from there, do you know will CSPAN be there? I'll use the web if I need to.

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

lied or no neither of the 2 party candidate said anything I cared for

note: Jill mentioned that the very poor and covered but not the poor

[-] 0 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 1 year ago

"Today, is our 20th anniversary, and I am still intrigued and in awe of my wife, Michelle. My focus is really not on this debate at this time....Get my drift? I'll be back!"

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[Removed]

[-] 0 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 1 year ago

"Governor Romney, please explain how your years at parasitic Bain, where companies were purchased, loaded up with debt, borrowed funds siphoned off into Bain's coffers, and the host company rendered bankrupt resulting in destroyed pension funds and layed-off workers, morally qualifies you to occupy the highest office in the land."

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Thanks, why didn't he bring up Bain?

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 1 year ago

Beats me. Why didn't he bring up all the things on bensdad's list?

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

I have a dream...

that someone will read this stuff, lots of good stuff being put up here

[-] -1 points by TheRazor (-329) 1 year ago

Obama, your guy, looked lost. I guess he was worried anout his tee time the next morning.

[-] 3 points by shooz (26677) 1 year ago

Of course you can't prove that, yet I can prove this.

(R)epelican'ts don't give a fuck about the jobless.

They are MUCH more concerned with their vacations and obstructions of justice.

http://www.politicususa.com/house-republicans-refuse-democrats-request-work.html

[-] -1 points by TheRazor (-329) 1 year ago

Since being in office, Obummer has played golf 120 times and held well over 100 fundraisers.

I fucking proved it, liar.

[-] 2 points by shooz (26677) 1 year ago

You didn't prove anything, but you did point out your extreme level of ignorance.

Did it take practice to get there?

[-] -2 points by TheRazor (-329) 1 year ago

Yes I did, sorry you are of limited intellect.

Ask Obummer for help.

You will find him right now on the 7th hole. :)))))))

You're so gullible.

[-] 2 points by shooz (26677) 1 year ago

I think you might have spent a little too much time at the 19th hole.

Care to comment on the link?

[-] -1 points by TheRazor (-329) 1 year ago

Why? It has nothing to do with Obamas excessive golf and fundraisers.

Stay the hell on topic.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Pres Obama hasn't played golf excessively & has had much less vacation time than any other Pres.

More right wing extremist lies? Anti Obama partisan campaign attacks?

LOL

[-] -1 points by throaway (57) 1 year ago

Obama should have said "I don't need to be here. I have snowed the country for years and the media will carry my water. Gotta go, Shelly and I have reservations in LA and Air Force One is idling."