Forum Post: There is NO Gettting Out of this Mess
Posted 12 years ago on Dec. 22, 2011, 10:11 a.m. EST by hchc
(3297)
from Tampa, FL
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Cuts that would be needed to get us out of this hole- lead to riots
Do nothing, currency collapses- leads to riots.
There is nothing your political parties can do to save you. It took two of them to create it, and the solution will include neither.
We have all been scammed...
NOT TRUE !
The root is a corrupt banking system that serves the 1% at the expense of the 99%. To redress that, we need a banking system that serves the 99%.
Occupy San Francisco has now endorsed a plan aimed at doing just that. In a December 1, Wall Street Journal article titled “Occupy Shocker: A Realistic, Actionable Idea,” David Weidner writes:
Protesters in the Bay Area, especially Occupy San Francisco, have something their East Coast neighbors don't: a realistic plan aimed at the heart of banks. The idea could be expanded nationwide to send a message to a compromised Washington and the financial industry.
It's called a municipal bank. Simply put, it would transfer the City of San Francisco's bank accounts—about $2 billion now spread between such banks as Bank of America Corp., UnionBanCal Corp. and Wells Fargo & Co.—into a public bank. That bank would use small local banks to lend to the community.
The public bank concept is not new. It has been proposed before in San Francisco and has a successful 90-year track record in North Dakota. Weidner notes that the state-owned Bank of North Dakota earned taxpayers more than $61 million last year and reported a profit of $57 million in 2008, when Bank of America had a $1.2 billion net loss. The San Francisco bank proposal is sponsored by city supervisor John Avalos, who has been thinking about a municipal bank for several years.
Weidner calls the proposal “the boldest institutional stroke yet against banks targeted by the Occupy movement.”
http://www.webofdebt.com/articles/the_way.php
In order to do that, you would need to change legislation. Whose going to do that?
It looks like there is a good chance of it in San Francisco. And several states are studying the possibility of a publicly owned state bank.
see Articles at: http://www.WebOfDebt.com
What bank is going to lend money to a broke city?
read the article at the link, if you would like to learn how cities might use their assets as a capitol base to create their own banks.
Are they going to pay back the money they have borrowed before they mortgage the public assets?
The public bank concept is not new. It has been proposed before in San Francisco and has a successful 90-year track record in North Dakota. The state-owned Bank of North Dakota earned taxpayers more than $61 million last year and reported a profit of $57 million in 2008, when Bank of America had a $1.2 billion net loss.
http://www.webofdebt.com/articles/the_way.php
D vs R, Left vs Right, Good vs Evil, Us vs Them, etc
What a fuckin joke
It's more of a cultural issue than a political divide, a situtation that has evolved from the mix of historical forces that, more or less inevitably, has led to our present dilemna. It's my observation that the current situation can be characterized as the conflict between two Models: Competition vs. Cooperation.
We see clearly that Competition has huge costs where those who have successfully allied themselves, among their own set of interests, in distinction to other interests (Suppliers/Demanders), naturally seek advantages that, by definition, will disadvantage their compliments...S/D. The results tend to inequality, the likes of which today have parallels in Western Civilization, notably among the Greek polis and Roman states, both resulting in civil war and the eventual, inevitable collapse of these societies. Our own situation is not different enough for us to expect something better or more sustainable. Survival of Western Civilization is literally at stake, perhaps human survival, and it's principally the result of taking the Competitive Model to its logical conclusions...and THIS is the state of our current situation; the alternative being a gradual, grassroots shift to the Cooperative Model, starting locally. Necessity will drive the shift as people discover that they CAN adapt to the demands by working more closely with their neighbors...sharing resources, money, talent etc. to answer their collective needs...housing, food, sense of community, mutual dependancy.
We'll have to abandon some degree of our standard of living, which to date has been unreasonably high, the costs to The People of the world being their enslavement to supply the West with unreasonably cheap goods...it's our doing...we are the Masters, and also guilty of the worlds enslavement and depredation. There is some Cosmic justice in this as we face our unraveling and likely civil, domestic rampage, one against another. The chickens are coming home to roost, and they are bloodthirsty, uncivil, murderous of disposition (witness the brutality of opposition in our uncivil discourse), and unmerciful. We have sown the wind and will likely reap the whirlwind. Occupy can understand this and Cooperate in this shift as it is a Human, humane necessity...not a product of Occupy, but a momentum born of our circumstances and challenges. I hope this shift continues to follow along the lines of faith in each other and Cooperation. The alternative is likely, historically evident, as extinction.
People don't know the first thing about co-operating, in general. And, with the full force of the law, the rent, cost, insurance, debt, interest, and taxes are required to those who need not co-operate.
Unless there's a clean slate on the above, it will take time, and probably be squashed in the end, like the labor movement.
Where is the Hopey and Changey that was promised by the Celebrity in Chief and his teleprompter?
Well I would not call cultural mythology regarding capitalism being scammed per se - Sure the system needs to lie to itself for continuance, but that is just a product of our own collective delusion. The banking and currency system is screwed. Capitalism is collapsing. Don't fight it just go with it.
Any riots in the US will be localized to the west coast, NE or possibly the north. We are not a nation of rioters. Like always, we will work out our problems peacefully. Only a handful of extreme instigators will partake in any uprising.
Time will tell. I'm pretty that when the SHTF moment, and the people go to withdraw their money from the ATM and banks, and it isnt there, you will see some shit you never thought of.
No one knows how to act in this country anymore. Its all "me, me ,me". Not very condusive to getting along in tough situations.
I do not think that is going to happen. People who fear this always overlook the fact that it will find a way to work itself out.
I think it will work itself out too. Human nature, the desire to build and achieve, will always play out. But I do think the morals of hte country are in the toilet. And I dont think people really know how to take care of themselves anymore.
We are at a crossroads. We have maxed out the status quo. Will will change and adapt into the new era. Change is always uncomfortable, but for the better in the end.
We could prosecute the liars and crooks and get the money back that they stole from the rest of us.
Some cuts, tax reform, lots of tax increases, may or may not lead to riots. People are starting to believe the government is in financial trouble.
"Starting to" when we are 15T is very telling. 1% is outta control, and hte 99% are too dumb to realize it.
You misunderstand, I mean that as a frustrated, finally some of the idiots are coming to their senses. Most people just haven't paid attention. They let themselves focus on stupid bits of trivia. I don't believe the population in general realizes you have to do more then trim away the wasteful spending. We run a deficit of $1.3 or 1.4 a year and they think cutting school lunches 10% will save things.
This is exactly what is intended.
The two parties deliberately failed to resolve the debt crisis in order to insure the collapse of the American dollar.
Can you imagine the pandamoneum that such an event would cause?
It would create an internal state of emergency, as well as global conflict due to the dollar's stance as the world's reserve currency.
It is being purposely devalued, and the effects will be dire.
With the looming threat of the NDAA passing, all American citizens should be outraged at the potential and inevitable threat that lies ahead.
Do not be afraid, but open your eyes.
When law is lawless, and we are to experience any disaster, be it natural or man made, we will be subjugated to MARTIAL LAW under the NDAA provisions.
You will lose your rights and find yourself in a home so unfamiliar to you.
You must be ready to resist.
The time to prepare is NOW. Civil disobedience has been nonviolent, but when it is no longer to be tolerated, violence will turn on civil disobedience.
Please, for the sake of you, myself, and any shred of humanity... do not fend off such a threat for the security of your own denial. You have been lied to by everyone, including yourself. Don't add insult to injury.
ending corporate welfare might do for a start.
repelicans REFUSE
the repelican party is DONE
If you're so concerned about corporate welfare, then you should really be looking at dummocraps. They're the ones pushing this "green energy" sheit with massive subsidies to General Electric, Solyndra, General Motors and anyone who will vote for their moronic donkey azzes.
You may not be honest with anyone here, but be honest with yourself.
Solyndra was obviously a huge error.
that said - I'd rather see the government supporting new technology than the oil industry.
I think it was 2007 the oil industry reluctantly said they didn't need the tax breaks and incentives they are receiving - Biden pressed them on the issue before the Senate.
Why don't you be honest -
oh
right
it just isn't in ya
Yes Solyndra the famous gaff.
But what if it could be saved? Restructured under employee ownership? I don't believe that solar cells are the end all answer to clean energy. But it is a definite step in the correct direction.
Lets see some Geo-thermal heating/cooling/power generation implementation supported as well as Hydrogen fuel/power implementation supported.
Green energy is in no way a joke. It's time has come, "WE" just need to push for it.
Solar is fifty years old. They were playing with panels in the late 60's. It's still not workable after all that time. And it pollutes the hell out of the environment with heavy metals when you produce panels.
At some point, fish or cut bait.
From the get go Solydra was known to be a failure. There was nothing to save because there was nothing there. What it really was , another money laundering scheme for 0bama .
mee44 & capella
Wow! Two at once! You guy's call each other or is this a happy coincidence?
Any industry when introduced will be somewhat rough. The idea in any industry is continuous process improvement. That would and should include the basic manufacturing process. The problem with any manufacturing business ( any business at all ) is getting them to act responsibly to reinvest in their infra structure to continue to add improvements to clean manufacturing as they become available. That is where regulations and enforcement are supposed to push compliance. Some will actually do it ( or try to ) themselves at the expense of losing their competitiveness with others in the industry who do not try to operate as cleanly. Regulation and enforcement should be supported by the public in every business. Costs a little to get going but so what if everyone is required to do it. It then just becomes a normal expense of doing business, something you don't need to think about you just do it because that is how it is done. Take this approach in business instead of trying to cut every conceivable corner. Business done responsibly for the good of all not for the owners pocket book.
You need to be consistent.
No corporate welfare OR stop complaining about it.
And FYI, when you're supporting solar, you're supporting oil because their hands are deep into it. Differently named sister corporations, same entities.
What, you haven't figured that out yet?
I'm certain I could find numerous start-ups unaffiliated with the oil industry that are deep into alt energy systems.
the fact that the oil industry is into it demonstrates the viability - they don't want to get left behind when the transition does finally take place.
Be consistent or stop complaining.
I am consistent
I'm consistently complaining
Excuse me Mr. smarty pants. I want you to know that you and ows are complete morons. You haven't got the faintest idea of what you are protesting. If you really gave a shit about the 99%, you would pack your tent and shit, clean up after yourselves and allow the local businesses (99%) to start having customers come back into their shops/ businesses. You disgusting hippies have ruined public parks all over the U.S.A. (my great country) and because of that, you all should be arrested and deported to Canada/Mexico. If you don't like what we have to offer in my great country, then get the fuck out of here you losers. The Doctor! P.S. Paul Krugman is a liberal fucking asshole
Wow, assume much?
LMFAO
People are insane on this forum....its a pretty good slice of real life political interactions :)
The greatest thing about YOUR country is its divide and conquer spirit and its self-righteous domination of The People of the globe, enslaving, raping, making war and selling war as a commodity (the greatest purveyor of death instruments). Such a country does not have moral high ground, nor justification for its survival.
I've seen this post by doctorlove before on this forum...copy and paste, copy and paste. There is nothing about this spirit that this poster promotes that remotely resembles 'love'. Viceous, inhumane, brutalizing, demonically hateful, deplorably noxious to civil society, and a blot upon the face of humanity. Utterly alien to anyone that hopes for a better future for their loved ones and for the human species. Psychopathic and antisocial, not the kind to make a good neighbor, certainly a lousy citizen. American? No wonder civilized humanity considers Americans to be ugly and ignorant.
and you my enemy are a fudgepacking disgrace. Go fuck yourself
spoken like a true un-amerikan.
and spoken like a true fucking queer
And probably a paid supporter of Marching Blindly. ( Dr. Luv )
raving irrationality, obsessed with queers (a good sign of a closet cockscucker), without dignity, without civility, without a claim to manhood or respect...a perfect zero= doctorlove