Forum Post: The Zeitgeist Movement
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 3, 2011, 7:37 p.m. EST by Lifestream
(85)
from Milan, IL
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
I urge people in this time of change to consider the plausible
solutions to this economic crisis we are protesting against.
If anyone is at all familiar with The Zeitgeist Movement, an
activist group with similar goals of those involved in the
occupation movement, they will know that what we hope to
accomplish is mutual. The media will continue to criticize the
occupiers because for their 'lack of direction', well for
those of you still wondering, a reform of our current economic
system just won't work. And I urge all, including those
actively participating in the occupation movement to also take
the time to research The Zeitgeist Movement and learn, I
believe history is in the making if we as a people go about
this in the right way and actually cause a change, for the
better. There has to be understanding for one to embrace
change however, and this can only be achieved through having
an open mind.
Anyone who still has a shred of hope or care for humanity and
this planet,and who desire a way of life not centered on
monetary gain, or for the pursuit of ones own self interest
for profit, and for the elimination of war and poverty, also
side effects of a failing economic system, please, consider
the ideas of The Zeitgeist Movement.
One species, one people, one planet.
A complete paradigm shift is needed.
The time is now
I would love to see this implemented in my lifetime!! I honestly believe it can work and it will solve so many issues immediately. The ONLY thing holding it back is that everyone must be willing to accept this change. The benefits of being part of this type of society are huge and positive.
I want to make clear that the Zeitgeist Movement will not support any violence or coercion for any reason whatsoever. As a leaderless 'Cloud' phenomena, like a Distributed Computer Network, but made up of people of good heart connected through the Internet, the ZM has a basic agreement to use only peaceful non-confrontational non-coercive methods. We will, however, support any peaceful efforts to change. We agree that only good means can create a good result and that is through methods that 'do no harm'. We are all about using the Scientific Method to arrive at a world that is good for people and good for the ecosystem. http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com
its not leaderless, its a cult of personality in three tiers. Its already patently violent in terms of how it self organizes as a pack and mob using an ad hom double standard and verbal violence to create its internal order. If you agreed to that, then you shold obviously go back and raise hell on the forum, because what the PROBLEM here is is that they absolutely are using EVIL means. They wouldn't know the scientific method if it bit them.
This idea is of a RBE is pretty unrealistic. My proposal to create a global based Party called the People's Party is better than the Zeitgeist Movement cults RBE communistic Utopian. Click link below.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/occupy-wall-street-basic-model-proposal-and-no-its/
zeitgeist/ anonymous whatever im in- the point is no one person may be the god that has the one solution..... but lets at least know the truth of whats wrong, and not hide it with the emmys and mcdonalds
we can in time together work for many solutions.... there are no absolutes. point is we are being lied to and played and we are sharing that info with the world. peace
I completely agree with the Zeitgeist movement but I can't say that this is the way to bring it about, I don't think that we will ever collectively make such a drastic change, unfortunately, but it has enormous potential as an example. What I mean by that is if a select group made an effort to build such a place, maybe even though the seasteading foundation, it would give people a practical example to look at and say "oh it is possible" just like the United States did that 200 years ago, and the only reason it was able to do that is because it was so isolated and able to develop without much outside interference, unlike the French revolution where the rest of Europe attacked France and militarized the movement, or the Bolshevik Revolution that was attacked by the west from the get go. Anyways, now I'm rambling but hope that helps instead of the hate.
sorry, i do know exactly what feudalism is. You trying to talk about its main features and then say that other features of feudalism are not the feudalism is silly. The dominant or single most relevant point is land ownership, certainly, but there are other features of feudalism, one of which is most certainly taxes, and to the point, by definition taxation as such begins in feudal systems. It is remarkably futile and silly to argue with me. It would be wiser to stop and take your opportunity to chat with the DJIN. capitalism is ALSO a system which has NEVER existed.
the core issues; 1. Corporate Personhood. 2. Caste Warfare; they started it. 3. Its legal to lie to the USA public. 4. They are OUR airwaves. They should be used for WETHEPEOPLE not leased by the government to corporations. Put Local colleges in charge of all the media. Arrest and seize all mass media devices and then give those devices straight out to the local colleges, including the land they sit on. We need education public media; not legalized lying and propaganda wars against the people. 5. Education reform. Everyones being kept stupid and ignorant on purpose in school and repugnicons want to argue about how to pay or punish teachers. We need child centered education reform, not a con scam to privatize education and thus score all our children for corporate zombotification. 6. Free market system. Not slave market system. Not caste market system. Not Caste warfare market system. Not rigged Casino. Not making something off of nothing and making bubbles to grease a gravy train either. Free market system. We must have one of those. Its time to have one of those. We have NEVER YET had one of those. 7. Realistic regulation of the government to regulate and control corporations so that what they do is fair and just and ethical and under control instead of a parade of unleashed godzillas turning the masses into to toe jam. 8. Real and direct representation, including no more lobbying, and including an evolutionary use of the internet with organized forums and wikis replacing the old style of congressional/ mayoral office.
"Right, but that still doesn't preclude taxation, which is in fact necessary to regulate the value of money"
nope. taxation period of any kind is merely and only a means to the end of creating a caste system. And even deeper, taxation dynamically entropizes a system, so its not only not necessary to regulate money, its the single largest entropic contributor to the system. The ONLY reason why we pay taxes is thats the feudal system; the idea that we pay anything remotely approaching the same thing or fair to what the rich pay is preposterous. The whole point of taxes is to distribute wealth from the poor to the rich. period.
gawdoftruth (Santa Barbara, CA) 1 points 0 seconds ago
"the end goal product should be that every small community takes care of its own. Any federal system is a problem definition of something requiring more serious attention to solve. long term social programs managed by nation sized meta entities is a disaster not only socially and civilly but to the people who get third rate borg social services. A well functioning system does not need a welfare system, it only has a highly evolved net which catches people and only involves less than one percent of the population at any given time, not punishing but rehabing and educating folks. Until such time as that end goal is achieved, no hand outs is a paradox... you have to spend time and thus money in order to fix the problems till their fixed past needing time or money."
Zeitgeist movement=Communism with robots.
No thanks.
A very concise and ignorant comment if I may say. I'll just copy and paste my reply to the other person who essentially thinks as you do. I mean no hate or ill will in my message, the society has bred hate and fear of change in you and most people of the world. Its okay.
I think you're just one of the many who see the superficial aspects of our movement and see us as marxists or communists who focus on centralized operations rather than handling problems based on the needs of the people and the planet we inhabit. Do your research please, I did not come here to argue. I understand some people cannot comprehend some of the ideas we support because of their traditional social conditioning but please do not slam TZM without even being knowledgeable in relevant subjects about the matter. Thank you.
Peace and Love.
One species, one people, one planet.
there is no superficial aspect here. the movement is fatally and absolutely flawed in unfixable ways. i know from giving them thousands of hours and posts of my time in their forums all of which just eventually disapears because they can't handle the truth. Neil kiernian is a sociopathic bully whos addicted to ad homs. etc.
Well, in that case, I will tell you this: If the OWS movement were to embrace TVP, they will lose. It just is not going to happen. Don't derail this movement with pie in the sky ideas. We are a capitalist society. We need to reform capitalism so it doesn't funnel all the wealth to the top. We need to restore democracy.
And I still say TVP is communism with robots. I've done the research. That was my conclusion. Sorry.
@Kooch I didn't even say TVP once in my original post you are so ignorant to keep associating them with TZM which is a further testament to your lack of knowledge.
@gawdoftruth Yes and those thousands of hours could indeed be repeated here but I refuse to get into a debate on these forums. The only dead horse here is the one being beat when you try to explain our concepts and ideals to people with traditional belief systems and values imprinted in their psyches that refuse to deviate from social heirarchies they still think have relevant meaning to the direction of human progress and the preservation of our planet and our species. You people really need to wake up and realize what's going on. Our RBE is based on love and understanding of the earths resources and our humane needs and applying the scientific method in a way to live in symbiological harmony with nature in a way that eliminate poverty, crime, and warfare, mental health disorders, scarcity, energy pollution and other issues. Why do you think John Lennon was assassinated? Some random citizen didn't like his music? Look deeper. Why was John Kennedy assassinated? Because a disgruntled citizen preferred the other candidate? Look deeper. We kill ourselves off all in the interest of those at the top retaining their position of power, wealth, and influence in the world. We are not a cult, we do not conduct rituals, we are not a high school club, we have documentaries and scientific backing, we are not a group of unhappy people because they were cast out of society, we are the normal people who want a better world. You people still amaze me at the amount of hate you have in you and unacceptance for anything out of the norm. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. The "Free Market" or any variation of a reform of this structure, will inevitably fail in all accounts where a currency is openly traded between parties for any type of gain. No argument whatsoever.
tzm is an evil fascist cult of personality in three tiers which uses pack psychology and ideology and anti capitalism sentiment to run a patent capitalistic con scam and top down hierarchy with a fascist plan to take over the world and depopulate the planet. TZM is a dead end dead horse. Its a stupid and pathetically evil cult, and anybody who is still with them after watching neil kiernian run his ad hom double standard pack psychology game is involved in absurd double think.
Dear all members of TZM on this forum. This is to all who are honestly trying to follow the train of thought that the movement sprang from.
There is no point in arguing with folks here, there is a point in educating them to what the goals of the movement really are.
goals are neat things, but without a foundation in truth and solutions, even good goals pave the road to hell. good intentions. i am sure you have heard the trite saying.
I see nothing practical about the Zeitgeist movement. As far as I can tell, they have a bunch of pretty pictures of futuristic cites, spout a buch of stuff about systems theory, and then say the only reason we don't have all this cool stuff is because of the monetary system. I don't buy it(no pun intended). There is indeed artificial scarcity in our economy, but that's a result of speculators holding resources for private gain. They could still do this even without a monetary system -- that's what feudalism was.
Abolishing money is not the answer. Taxing economic rent, on the other hand, will accomplish real, tangible results in terms of unleashing the forces of production and ending the artificial scarcity of capital, as well as pushing land to its most efficient use. That way the market will work in a way which is more equitable for everyone, and we will have organic cities which utilize the collective intelligence of all their citizens, rather than having us live in a bunch of beehives designed by some old guy.
The ONLY thing holding us back is close minded people such as yourself. You need to watch the videos to understand. All I ask of you is for an open mind, if you cannot even give me that then you should not be involved in activism whatsoever. I'm not telling anyone what to believe, but if you can't see that the traditional currency system of trading of wealth and goods is outdated and can no longer serve the human species as our technology increases an exponential rate, then you are perhaps too socially conditioned to change or realize that one in this manner is needed. Peace and love.
the only thing holding us back is that tzm is sucking up all of my would be allies time and energy with a giant anti human fascist cult mind instead of actually creating a direct democracy open source problem solving intelligence.
NO, NO, NO, the train of thought followed by the zeitgeist movement is to free individuals to be individuals. TZM feels that by using technology to distribute resources more efficiently, the planet and its people will benefit. We are not against money anyway, we just simply recognize that there is no need for money in this type of system. You think we are utopian because we think it can be done absent of money. Did it ever occur to you that no one has ever tried it before. by the way "we" means anyone who follows this train of thought, whether they have any direct connection with the zeitgeist movement or not as an organization really does not even matter. It is not the zeitgeist movement that is out there in the street getting mad and occupying, though we figured this would happen and we stand in solidarity for those tired of the system. We have sound solitary scientific proof to back up these claims. We also feel that humanity is headed in this direction inevitably as technology and knowledge continues to increase.
its a neat train of thought. you keep pointing to the good ideals. They exist in an ecology of ideology which is actually fascist, anti intellectual, anti truth, which always alienates experts because the false prophets can't handle any situation in which somebody else knows more than they do... You are focusing on the good things inside of a cult. Wake up and smell the rot.
I HAVE watched the videos. Just because I disagree with you doesn't make me close-minded. See, I'm one of those people who actually READS extensively about economics and doesn't just get all my information from online documentaries. Yeah, but I'm the close-minded one. Whatever.
if you have watched the videos then you definitely have a right to respond and tell us what you think is flawed and why, if you have read extensively about the economics then share what you know.
I am not talking about The Venus Project, mind you. as I just realized by you saying "some old guy" which regardless does not take away from the fact that Jacques Fresco is a visionary and Peter Joseph of The Zeitgeist Movement is the 'action' part of the equation.
Yeah, Fresco makes some interest designs. If I were designing a neighborhood, I might hire him. But I'd rather live in a pluralistic society where decision-making is distributed among the people and not just have our whole living space designed by someone who claims to be the only one doing things according to "science." For a supposedly anarchist group, everything the Zeitgeist movement promotes is actually very top-down.
There's really no argument if you grasp the concept that TZM advocates. In a resource based economy there would be no property, hence there would be no incentive for the pursuit of any property for one's own interest or for personal gain. I really don't know what it is you're trying to contradict.
But HOW would you abolish property? State confiscation? Everything I've heard from them starts with abolishing the money system and assuming that property would naturally go away as a result. History teaches otherwise.
perhaps you missed the part about using a central computer, not big brother, just using a centrally based computer system to help ascertain, harness and distribute the earth's resources fairly and equitably, with the utmost of efficiency being the goal. Then you would ask who would operate,this system? people would volunteer, just as they volunteer now for various humanitarian causes. People really do volunteer. The human race is not limited, it is capable of much more than what we have shown so far. A resource based economic model such as the one I have described gives us a chance to show it.
I think you're just one of the many who see the superficial aspects of our movement and see us as marxists or communists who focus on centralized operations rather than handling problems based on the needs of the people and the planet we inhabit. Do your research please, I did not come here to argue. I understand some people cannot comprehend some of the ideas we support because of their traditional social conditioning but please do not slam TZM without even being knowledgeable in relevant subjects about the matter. Thank you.
Peace and Love.
One species, one people, one planet.
So you don't bother to answer my questions. Great. Just like every other Zeitgeist person I've asked. If you could direct me to some resources that answer these questions, I'd be glad to check them out. So far, I've seen all three movies, and been to thevenusproject.com, and have yet to have such questions answered. And no, I don't see you as Marxists. I actually know some Marxists, and have a great deal more respect for their understanding of politics, economics, and sociology than anything I've ever seen from TZM.
i am quite knowledge able. i am the guy with 20 phds worth of autodidactic knowledge who tried to help this cult grow up only to have 700 posts deleted by vtv in order to cover his tracks as an ad hom bully. Thats only where it starts and thats only my story. Everyone whos got anything more than bachelors has a similar story. your cult can't handle the truth and it can;t handle those of us who know it. Until it stops being evil it is a problem, and its sucking away my allies off into dead ends we have no more time for false prophets and cult mind BS.
gawd of truth, if you have had an extensive education and have something to contribute, we welcome knowledge. It really does sound like part of this is a personal dispute with VTV. He does not necessarily represent the movement, no one does, not even Peter himself, the movement is represented by a train of thought. This train of thought is toward efficiency, sustainability and simply using the knowledge that the human race has accumulated so far and updating it regularly. It might be compared to ordering the earth's economic model, much like the universe itself is ordered, we are literally made of that which makes up the universe so it makes sense.
No, you don't. For a large variety of reasons. depth science knowledge terrifies the leadership because it puts them out of their depth. They don't know what the scientific method is and can't manage to engage their dupes into using it. This is far from merely a personal dispute, this is the simple factual truth about your cult. Many Many other people have had in essence the same kinds of interactions to prove it. As far as "who represents the movement" i'm sorry, but the aminatrolls banning people because they are evil adminatrolls DO represent the movement, whether you like it or not.
IF they had ANY interest in the truth or science they would form open source think tanks, not come in with movies and etc and dispense knowledge to the rest of you from on hi. I spent 700 posts trying to get a REAL science centered open source direct democracy process going on TZM and was mocked, attacked, and ignored, until i stood upto vtv for ad homming somebody else and was then banned for standing up to the corruption. TZM is nothing bu an evil cult, and ANY claim they have to be interested in science is not born out in their actual organization- they absolutely fail to create open source research think tanks- they wouldn't know what science was if it bit them.
your simply wrong. the problem is that while the good and neat and pretty things are true and nifty the HOLES in the PLAN are GINORMOUS and are being FILLED right in front of you all the time with a 3 tier cult of personality which operates by propaganda warfare, pack psychology, and slander and trolling against all other possible routes for social change, all other persons working for social change, all religions, all governments. TZM is a TROLLCULT. and thats all it can or ever will be.
Tell me what the holes in the plan are and I will entertain the idea of this being some misconcieved fantasy. Keep in mind the growing importance that technology is and will continue to be in our social lives. We will not need a government of any kind. No ism.
how will you get a think tank instead of cult mind started? how will we implement this transition plan? what is the plan aside from cozy up to NATO and wait for depopulation? "All the worlds resources for all the worlds people" is nice poetry, but systemically impossible and dynamically out of touch with the core solution which is localization. Really the list goes on. The forum, which is teh manifest society tzm actually HAS is a fascist control freak pack psychology driven cult of personality which operates via an ad hom double standard and constant abuse of assorted fascistic selected public enemies. Seriously, the list goes on and on.
gawd of truth, you need to know something, the forums will soon be gone, in less than a month actually. You are reminding why they need to be gone. They were a social place, they were not really conducive to information relay and education, present and up to date knowledge were absent from them. There was way too much "noise" or "static" on them, that took away from the central focus.
and? what does that prove? what central focus? they aren't able or competent to create a central focus. they can't even get it together to run a forum- let alone society or change the world.