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Forum Post: The Rs are toast – ignorant, uninformed toast

Posted 11 months ago on Sept. 26, 2013, 9:56 p.m. EST by bensdad (8977)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

The President has repeatedly stated that he will not negotiate on the debt ceiling and that the United States will not default on it’s debts.
Although the trillion dollar platinum coin could work,
the Constitution’s Article XIV section 4 REQUIRES the president to pay the debt.
Congress and SCOTUS cannot get around the Constitution’s requirement.

================================================= United States Constitution
Article XIV [ 1868 ] - Section 4.

The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned.
But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

==============================================

Section 4 confirmed the legitimacy of all U.S. public debt appropriated by the Congress.
The second sentence also confirmed that neither the United States nor any state would pay for the loss of slaves or debts that had been incurred by the Confederacy. During the Civil War several British and French banks had lent large sums of money to the Confederacy to support its war against the Union.
In Perry v. United States (1935), the Supreme Court ruled that under Section 4 voiding a United States bond "went beyond the congressional power." This ruling affirmed that congress could not constitutionally ignore American debt.
[ i.e. could not control the debt ceiling. ]

The debt ceiling crisis in 2011 raised the question of what powers Section 4 gives to the President, an issue that remains not completely settled. Many legal scholars such as Garrett Epps, fiscal expert Bruce Bartlett and Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner, have argued that a debt ceiling may be unconstitutional and therefore void as long as it interferes with the duty of the government to pay interest on outstanding bonds and to make payments owed to pensioners (that is, Social Security recipients) in accordance with the Constitution.
Legal analyst Jeffrey Rosen has argued that Section 4 gives the President unilateral authority to raise or ignore the national debt ceiling, and that if challenged, the Supreme Court would likely rule in favor of expanded executive power or dismiss the case altogether for lack of standing by anyone who would try to sue.

A sad footnote to this – a large percentage of Americans do not want to raise the debt ceiling because they believe the Rs lies that this raises the debt.

And finally – is it possible that every Rs in the House is a Democrat shill ?

85 Comments

85 Comments


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[-] 2 points by trashyharry (1778) from Waterville, NY 11 months ago

A classic case.The Immovable Object vs.The Unstoppable Force.It appears as though the f''n Fat Ass Object must either Move or Implode into Smithereens.You may be Bensdad,but your implacable contempt for Republicans reminds me of MY Dad-who,in his whole long life never wept,until the Republicans decided to do the Stupidest Thing Anybody Has Ever Done,and launched an Illegal War on Iraq.I'm 100% certain Inchon never made my father cry,nor the Tet Offensive-and he was in the middle of those.When the Bush Family launched a ruinous war with scurrilous mendacity,my 80 year old combat veteran Marine Corps father CRIED because he knew full well-there will be absolute,total and utter Hell To Pay for it.And we haven't even begun to feel it...God help us!

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 11 months ago

I don't have contempt for all Rs
I woul co nsider voting for David Frum, Michael Steel, Steve LaTourette

I have contempt for all Rs who vote with ted cruz & wayne lapierre & koch brothers

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 11 months ago

government don't run without tax

[-] 0 points by bensdad (8977) 11 months ago

so you want to cut taxes - to stop WIC & NIH etc ?

many politicians don't run without bribes [ called contributions ] see HJR29

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 11 months ago

no

taxes is the method to recover money collected at the top of the upside economy and reintroduce that money at the bottom where it will be exchanged for goods and services and move the economy

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[-] 1 points by WSmith (2091) from Cornelius, OR 11 months ago

Jon Stewart's Rockin' Shutdown Eve

If President Obama can make a deal with the most intransigent mullahs in the world but not with House Republicans, maybe he is not the problem. (07:20)

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-september-30-2013/jon-stewart-s-rockin--shutdown-eve

[-] 1 points by WSmith (2091) from Cornelius, OR 11 months ago

Hey all you both-samers, fence sitters, 2010 pouters, confused and misled potential Voters out there: This is the 1%-GOP, RepubliCons, Teabaggers, RW, Righties, Rs and Cons who are holding the country hostage, again!!

Remember this when the 2014 Midterms come around next year! 2010 Never EVER Again!

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 11 months ago

Unfortunately - most of "us" agree
There are some here - maybe 20%-30% that hate all politicians
like racists who paint all ---------- as -----------.
It is much easier than figuring out the differences between
ted cruz & Elizabeth Warren
It is much easier to "know" that Obama wants to bomb Syria than to
look at the whole chess board and see that Putin & Assad are now
exactly where Obama moved them


The piece that is missing from OUR site
is teaching others how to spread the word:
How to convince MODERATES to

vote for electable candidates with progressives for the 99%

How to motivate people to get other people to

REGISTER & VOTE for electable candidates with progressives for the 99%


look into Nina Turner

[-] 2 points by WSmith (2091) from Cornelius, OR 11 months ago

It never ceases to amaze me how belligerently ignorant some posters/repliers are regarding this, latest, GOP extortion crisis! Some say a shutdown would be a good thing, but not because it might wake political sleepyheads up to Con dirty tricks, but because it might slow down US aggression overseas and/or gov corruption.

I'm concerned about this because I've seen people forget or disregard GOP corruption with Nixon (& all the president's men) and elect Raygun twice, forget or disregard the national destruction of the Raygun Revolution and elect Bush-1 once & Bush-2 twice, forget or disregard the criminal War & Wall Street fraud & murder INSIDE JOBS and let Teabaggers take Congress and state govs in 2010, & ONCE AGAIN people seem to forget or disregard the litany of GOPbag extortions, sabotages and hostage crises and either blame the first black POTUS or confuse the culpability with both parties.

Meanwhile the remedy, tool and weapon to cure all our problems ~ democracy ~ is neglected or ignored while we lead the industrialized world with the lowest Voter Turnout and highest Big $ influence!

And the clueless blame government.

[-] 2 points by IrishRevolt (5) 11 months ago

The "us" you speak of is in the minority in this country, and for good reason.

And its getting smaller.

"It is much easier to "know" that Obama wants to bomb Syria than to look at the whole chess board and see that Putin & Assad are now exactly where Obama moved them"

You speak of puppets as if they are decision makers.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 11 months ago

and specifically, how do you propose cutting defense?
creating an FDR works program?
taxing the rich?
"my" OWS plan is here:
http://corporationsarenotpeople.webuda.com
where is your plan

[-] 1 points by WSmith (2091) from Cornelius, OR 11 months ago

"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato

"Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you." - Pericles

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[-] -1 points by FrenchFontes (23) 11 months ago

It takes Two to tango. Both parties are equally complicit in this.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 11 months ago

A man walks up to you and says I want to cut off your arm.

Obviously, you compromise with him and tell him to cut off your hand.

NO COMPROMISE !!!

The Dems & President compromised with the republiclans before - over a shut down and the debt ceiling - and it taught the republiclans that if they act crazy enough, they will get something.

NO COMPROMISE !!!

but I would give them the finger.

NO COMPROMISE !!!


and the debt ceiling disaster cannot occur because of the Fourteenth Amendment: “the validity of the public debt … shall not be questioned”

[-] -2 points by FrenchFontes (23) 11 months ago

I don't understand.... are you a democrat?

[-] 0 points by bensdad (8977) 11 months ago

I vote for the best electable candidate who supports the 99%
I vote against pro-koch / vote supressors / anti-women candidates
I do not compromise with blackmailers

[-] -1 points by FrenchFontes (23) 11 months ago

I wasn't aware that there is such a thing. Unless you are voting for the Communist Party like you should be, then you are doing the 99% a dis-service.

[-] 0 points by bensdad (8977) 11 months ago

I don't vote for any party.
Are there ANY communists doing ANYTHING for the 99% in government ?
Bernie is. Elizabeth is. Mark Pocan is.

No one would be happier for progressives to vote for communists
than david & charlie

some people believe that they pay people to convince people to NOT vote or vote for the unelectable
do you know anyone like that ?

[-] 0 points by FrenchFontes (23) 11 months ago

Communist Party USA is very much active today. The 99% need to throw off their chains and vote for Communist, instead of the Democraps and Republican'ts.

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 11 months ago

I don't care about "active" parties
I care about real actions to help the 99%
Has there been a single communist party candidate elected to state or federal office that actually DID SOMETHING for the 99%

If I was stupid enough to vote for a non-electable ,
I would vote Linclon or FDR

[-] -1 points by FrenchFontes (23) 11 months ago

It not my fault that Obama smoozers like yourself refuse to vote responsibly.

If everyone voted responsibly, then we wouldn't get these Neo-Liberal scum in office in the first place.

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 11 months ago

If everyone was as smart and wonderful and beautiful as you ..........

[-] -2 points by FrenchFontes (23) 11 months ago

I could say the same thing to you, but then again I not the one who defends Capitalism.

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 11 months ago

I don' think it is worth pointing out -
captialism works when it is controlled by democracy
capitalism - as it is today in America - does not work
when IT controlls democracy

simply stated - what would happen if ALL political money ( and lobbying ) had to come directly from voters?
see HJR29
and OSW site
http://coporationsarenotpeople.webuda.com

[-] -2 points by FrenchFontes (23) 11 months ago

Capitalism has clearly failed and the whole point of OWS is to replace the system of failed capitalism.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 11 months ago

capitalism has not failed
capitalism has purchased democracy
creating crapitalism

sever the two
see HJR29

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[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 11 months ago

[-] 1 points by FrenchFontes (6) 0 minutes ago

Oh, now just because I disagree with you that automatically makes me a part of the tea party and am "right-wing" trash. I see how it is.

If you had actually read my posts before you banned me the first time, you would realize that I am far from being a "tea-nut".

Objectivism is the philosophy of the ignorant. Subjectivism is the philosophy of those who wish to see the oppressed able to speak freely without fear of being called a "Dicknose" or a "tea-nut".

I know you are inherently better than me, but I don't think everyone see this. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink


No, simply disagreeing is not enough to make you a tea nut or a dicknose, Dicknose.

Being a right wing teathuglican multiple ID cockroach makes you so.

Your dead giveaway is not that communism is a viable system--it looks just as pretty on paper as capitalism. It's your incessant attacking of other posters AND your let's do ideology over and over again. You're a piece of shit cockroach. Right wing trash. Same as you were before.

I don't have the power to ban you. You're just an asshole that somewhere down the line pissed of those that do have that power. Psstt..........it's prolly got to do with your right wing teathuglican multiple ID cockroach shit.

[-] 0 points by FrenchFontes (23) 11 months ago

Okay, then I wont stop. Ever. You can bite me!!!

Please stop harassing me.....

[-] 0 points by FrenchFontes (23) 11 months ago

Who says im a communist or that I like communism. You said it yourself that I am a liar. How can I be a communist and a liar at the same time?

You think you are the Queen Supreme of all of Occupy. You personally attack anyone and everyone who disagrees with you. It is okay for you to do it for not for anyone else.

Every time I say something on here that doesn't jive with your world view, then you attack me.

You are a HYPOCRITE!!!!

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 11 months ago

[-] 1 points by FrenchFontes (6) 2 minutes ago

Okay, then I wont stop. Ever. You can bite me!!!

Please stop harassing me..... ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink


You have no intention of stopping as long as the contract is on, amiright? Two dollar whore. You fucking right wing cockroach.

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[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 11 months ago

[-] 0 points by FrenchFontes (6) 1 minute ago

That doesn't change what I said about you. ;)

Your still a wanna-be dictator and I still just me...... ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink


It just makes you a liar. You keep getting nailed and then you cry when you get popped. So, in order for you to live with yourself, you project your shit onto someone else.

You're right wing trash. A multiple ID cockroach.

Tea-nuts roasting on an open fire..............

[-] -1 points by FrenchFontes (23) 11 months ago

Oh, now just because I disagree with you that automatically makes me a part of the tea party and am "right-wing" trash. I see how it is.

If you had actually read my posts before you banned me the first time, you would realize that I am far from being a "tea-nut".

Objectivism is the philosophy of the ignorant. Subjectivism is the philosophy of those who wish to see the oppressed able to speak freely without fear of being called a "Dicknose" or a "tea-nut".

I know you are inherently better than me, but I don't think everyone see this.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 11 months ago

[-] 0 points by FrenchFontes (8) 2 minutes ago

I may by deaf and dumb, but im not blind.

You think of yourself as the Queen of Occupy and if you get your way, then you throw a fit.

Cry me a river, sister! and get over yourself! ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink


Nah, you're a multiple ID cockroach. Same as you were before. Not even close to communist. Just makes you a whiny little cockroach. Nothing more and nothing less.

[-] -1 points by FrenchFontes (23) 11 months ago

That doesn't change what I said about you. ;)

Your still a wanna-be dictator and I still just me......

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 11 months ago

[-] 1 points by FrenchFontes (8) 0 minutes ago

We have a Pissy Missy do we.

I may be a commie bastard, but enough to know that calling people "Dicknose" doesn't get you very far.

Im not going to argue with over personals. Ignoring you will do me much better. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink


You're not even close to communist. You're a lying piece of shit.

[-] -1 points by FrenchFontes (23) 11 months ago

I may by deaf and dumb, but im not blind.

You think of yourself as the Queen of Occupy and if you get your way, then you throw a fit.

Cry me a river, sister! and get over yourself!

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 11 months ago

[-] -1 points by FrenchFontes (13) 12 minutes ago

Why does the home page's subtitle mention ending capitalism then? Wall Street is the tool of the 1% and needs to be destroyed. When it is destroyed it must be replaced with something else. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink


Nah, this is another attempt to argue ideology. You are not new.

[-] -1 points by FrenchFontes (23) 11 months ago

And what would you prefer, miss queen bee? Capitalism?

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 11 months ago

I thought it was to fight Walls Street without getting involved in elections because these people already knew what had to be done. Replacing the entire system is a childish dream.

[-] -1 points by FrenchFontes (23) 11 months ago

Why does the home page's subtitle mention ending capitalism then? Wall Street is the tool of the 1% and needs to be destroyed. When it is destroyed it must be replaced with something else.

[-] -1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 11 months ago

[-] 0 points by FrenchFontes (8) 0 minutes ago

And what would you prefer, miss queen bee? Capitalism? ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink


You don't have an argument, Dicknose.

[-] -1 points by FrenchFontes (23) 11 months ago

We have a Pissy Missy do we.

I may be a commie bastard, but enough to know that calling people "Dicknose" doesn't get you very far.

Im not going to argue with over personals. Ignoring you will do me much better.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 11 months ago

[-] 0 points by FrenchFontes (6) 0 minutes ago

Who says im a communist or that I like communism. You said it yourself that I am a liar. How can I be a communist and a liar at the same time?

You think you are the Queen Supreme of all of Occupy. You personally attack anyone and everyone who disagrees with you. It is okay for you to do it for not for anyone else.

Every time I say something on here that doesn't jive with your world view, then you attack me.

You are a HYPOCRITE!!!! ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink


Tee hee!!!! You look stupid!!!!

[-] -1 points by FrenchFontes (23) 11 months ago

You like a hypocrite. Id rather be stupid any day over than what you are.

You don't have to call people name to get them to like you. Vaginanose! I know what you are, but what am I?

The second you called me "Dicknose", you looked stupid.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 11 months ago

[-] 0 points by FrenchFontes (6) 8 minutes ago

Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves. - Henry David Thoreau

Obedience to lawful authority is the foundation of manly character. - Robert E. Lee

This one isn't hard to figure out. Occupy is all about disruption. Anything to the contrary is hypocritical.

PS Youre a $1 whore. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink


There you go again, pretending to be all about Occupy. But, you aren't even close. You're just a two dollar whore that posts for profit. A teathuglican right wing multiple ID cockroach.

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[-] -1 points by ThickerIce (2) from Bad Langensalza, TH 11 months ago

Why do you lie?

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 11 months ago

Nah, there is nothing here for me to be a hypocrite about. You're a right wing trash multiple ID cockroach. You are here to disrupt which makes you a paid to post two dollar whore.

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[-] -2 points by FrenchFontes (23) 11 months ago

Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves. - Henry David Thoreau

Obedience to lawful authority is the foundation of manly character. - Robert E. Lee

This one isn't hard to figure out. Occupy is all about disruption. Anything to the contrary is hypocritical.

PS Youre a $1 whore.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 11 months ago

[-] 1 points by ThickerIce (2) from Bad Langensalza, TH 0 minutes ago

Why do you lie? ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink


I don't. You do. Hence your teathuglican multiple ID cockroach shit. But, hey--When two Tea Party-ers get divorced, are they still cousins?

[-] -1 points by ThickerIce (2) from Bad Langensalza, TH 11 months ago

The best part is the long delay as it takes you so long to look up some ancient jokes. Can't whip them out off the top of your head can you, Little Brain?

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 11 months ago

Makes one wonder, just who you are schmoozing.

Care to enlighten us?

[-] 0 points by FrenchFontes (23) 11 months ago

Im not schmoozing the 1% who defend Capitalism. The 99% is anti-Capitalism the last time I checked.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 11 months ago

You know what a bus load of Tea Party folks at the bottom of the ocean is?

A damn good start.

[-] -1 points by FrenchFontes (23) 11 months ago

What do I have to do with the Tea Party?

[-] -2 points by FrenchFontes (23) 11 months ago

I don't know.

[-] -2 points by ThickerIce (2) from Bad Langensalza, TH 11 months ago

You and funny? Still world's apart.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 11 months ago

Teathuglicans and diapers have one thing in common: they should both be changed regularly… and for the same reason.

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[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 11 months ago

[-] 0 points by ThickerIce (2) from Bad Langensalza, TH 1 minute ago

I guess the Jeff Foxworthy book is the only thing in the house. I understand. Books with big words are hard to read.

Gotta go show this transcript to my supervisor and get paid. These 30 minute work days are killing me. Time for some steak and wine. You work on being funny now, you hear? Don't give up, sweet thing ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink


So, your going to change IDs and check in with your master-lil'4 chan reject?

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 11 months ago

Mmmmm.......the best part is watching you fucking disgusting, lyin', conniving, right wing teathuglican cockroaches lose it.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 11 months ago

You might be a Teathuglican if you see a sign that says no crack and it reminds you to pull your pants up.

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[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 11 months ago

How do Teathuglicans get circumcised?

Kicking your sister in the jaw.

[-] -1 points by ThickerIce (2) from Bad Langensalza, TH 11 months ago

wow. just wow. Have you ever actually made anyone laugh in your life? Intentionally I mean. Something tells me you've been the source of a lot of laughs, but not for the right reasons.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 11 months ago

You might be a Teathuglican if you let your sixteen year old daughter smoke at the dinner table... ...in front of her kids

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 11 months ago

[-] 0 points by ThickerIce (0) from Bad Langensalza, TH 1 minute ago

You should ask shadz for advice. Remember that amazing poem he wrote? Funniest thing I've read on this site. Well, funniest thing after shooz's claim that dk's medical condition was targeted and used to take him out, but still very very funny. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink


Fuck him too. You? Right wing pathetic teathuglican cockroach. Libertopia awaits you.........at the bottom of the ocean.

[-] -2 points by ThickerIce (2) from Bad Langensalza, TH 11 months ago

Actually I'm heading to the beach with all the money I've made thanks to you and this site. Thanksgiving in The Maldives sounds great, don't you think? Have fun eating turkey in your trailer park

┌П┐(•_•)┌П┐

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 11 months ago

On the roof of a very tall building are four men; one is Asian, one is Mexican, one is Black, and the last one is a member of the Tea Party. The Asian walks to the ledge and says, "This is for all my people" and jumps off the roof. Next, the Mexican walks to the ledge and also says, "This is for all my people" and then he jumps off the roof. Next is the black guy's turn. The black guy walks to the ledge and says, "This is for all my people" and then throws the Teathuglican off the roof.

[-] -1 points by ThickerIce (2) from Bad Langensalza, TH 11 months ago

Jerry Lewis was right.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 11 months ago

Replying here.

"okay, but at least I can sleep at night knowing that I am doing something end capitalism forever."

Me too!!!!

Though this is not an explanation of who it is you're schmoozing, nor why your accusation of others schmoozing, proves you are correct on any level at all.

I'll ask again.

Who is it you're schmoozing?

[-] -1 points by FrenchFontes (23) 11 months ago

bensdad is clearly pro-Obama, pro-demoract, and pro-neo liberalism. Just read his posts, theyre all about how great the democrats are at everything.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 11 months ago

What's that got to do with you??????

Why do you think that gives you permission to attack him???

He didn't attack you.

I'd still like to know who you are schmoozing.

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[Removed]

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 11 months ago

You misunderstood the question.

Therefore, we still need to be enlightened.

[-] -2 points by FrenchFontes (23) 11 months ago

Im not schmoozing anyone, that is the point.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 11 months ago

That's truly difficult to believe.

[-] -2 points by FrenchFontes (23) 11 months ago

okay, but at least I can sleep at night knowing that I am doing something end capitalism forever.

[-] 0 points by HCHC4 (-28) 11 months ago

Capitalism or Socialism or Communism... a shmoozer is a shmoozer, and the corrupt are the corrupt.

Corruption knows no labels.

Some thoughts.....

[-] 0 points by FrenchFontes (23) 11 months ago

Corruption is impossible in a truly Communist society as Marx envisioned. Corruption occurs when Capitalist tendencies are revealed. The USSR was not a Communist State, it promoted and defended State sponsored Capitalism, just like China does today.

[-] 3 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 11 months ago

Finding Bigfoot is impossible too.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28285) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 months ago

[-] 3 points by JadedCitizen (4251) 1 hour ago

You speak of us humans as though you are separate from and not one of. Kind of freaky, my man. And you only see two opposing natures? Those who ignore and those who prey on the oblivious? I can't help but doubt that such a simple dichotomy is insufficient to accurately sum up the complexities of human relationships. I mean, it doesn't even figure in trust at all, which is wholly different from ignoring, but can still lead to great harm when it is given fully without scrutiny or skepticism of the one who says things like - trust me - corruption is impossible. wink. wink.

↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

REMOVE the in = sufficient

[-] 2 points by HCHC4 (-28) 11 months ago

I'm human too, and just as guilty as the rest. Theres a lot in the middle of ignore vs oblivious, as there is now. but the masses dictate the motion, and societies tend to rest on their laurels.

Trust is good and trust is bad, all depends on the human I guess, and the one with being trusted. Humans are complicated, and mass psychology is pretty predictable.

Flyering today. Was talking to someone about human nature. One person says no thanks, the next few behind them will always say no thanks.

Someone takes the flyer, the next few will usually do just as well. Sometimes it doesnt even take a quick pitch, just keep em going out into the passing by hands.

I dont think this is unique to our country, or necessarily bad. Its just how we are. People like people. Like this chat room, its the interaction we like.

Someone told me that if I got two tickets to a football game, and the best tickets in the house, but no one else was there, it would suck. They are right. Its the crowd we like, as a whole.

Im glad we like each other. But that "trust" - guess- can lead to some very lemming like bad things, and if someone has the controls, regardless of the system, it can be taken off course pretty quick.

Just look at how much we have given up since 2001.

[-] 0 points by HCHC4 (-28) 11 months ago

As long as humans are involved, and humans ignore whatever society they are in- as seems to always happen- other humans will take advantage and accelerate, imo.

[-] 4 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 11 months ago

You speak of us humans as though you are separate from and not one of. Kind of freaky, my man. And you only see two opposing natures? Those who ignore and those who prey on the oblivious? I can't help but doubt that such a simple dichotomy is insufficient to accurately sum up the complexities of human relationships. I mean, it doesn't even figure in trust at all, which is wholly different from ignoring, but can still lead to great harm when it is given fully without scrutiny or skepticism of the one who says things like - trust me - corruption is impossible. wink. wink.

[-] 2 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 11 months ago

Obviously you can see I am a skeptic toward the apathetic masses argument. I think the bind we find ourselves in lends more toward people lending their trust onto others to man the helm and excusing themselves from the process. Especially a problem for those who are undereducated and can't make heads or tails out of all the frustrating double talk, punditry, and political rhetoric. I still have a hard time wrapping my head around some of the arguments that whiz back and forth across the media every day.

[-] -1 points by FrenchFontes (23) 11 months ago

Capitalism=corruption

Communism=freedom

[-] -2 points by HCHC4 (-28) 11 months ago

Capitalism=corruption Communism=freedom

Depends on a few things imo. Even in communism, decisions must be made. How many people are going to take time out of their lives to participate? And how many will be swayed to endorse things that are against their own will. Who is making the decisions.

Community is only as strong as those that make it up, right?

[-] -1 points by FrenchFontes (23) 11 months ago

If what you say is true, then why do so many people associated with OWS put so much into Solidarity, Unity, Equality, worker's rights and the 99%?

You are in the minority here my friend. Solidarity!!!