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Forum Post: The opposing moral systems of left and right are not going away

Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 11, 2011, 4:40 p.m. EST by sundog (14) from Essex Fells, NJ
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

A primary message of the Occupy Wall street movement has been the call for moving beyond the two parties and the left/right political divide. This is a worthy goal and should be broadly supported. But ignoring political affiliation will not dissolve the opposing moral frameworks that underlie the left and right camps. In the context of the current economic crisis, the two sides have common grievances and perceived affinities. They both agree that Wall Street businesses have committed ongoing public theft with impunity, and that the government's ability to adequately serve the public has been disabled. But if deeper collaborations were begun, we would soon find two very different and opposing viewpoints on how to go about solving these and other problems.

To avoid any political labeling, let's imagine that Americans generally fall into two broad groups. Let's call one the strict group, and the other the nuturant group. The “nuturants” value the following: Empathy Strength Responsibility Opportunity Fairness Freedom Equality Excellence the Commonwealth Investment Protection Security - (not only military security, but economic security, environmental security, healthcare security, climate security, etc.) Justice Accountability Progress Decency Dignity

Let's look at what the “stricts” value by a partial listing of their current and ongoing agenda: • Assaults on unions, public employees, women's rights, immigrants, the environment, health care, voting rights, food safety, pensions, prenatal care, science, public broadcasting, and more. • Promotion of corporate theft through lax regulation and tax breaks • Promotion of government for profit (privatizing) • Promotion of their ideology itself as their highest goal to be applied to all aspects of American life, at the expense of the common good • Denial of the science of global warming and evolution (because it doesn't fit their ideology) • Gerrymandering districts at the state level and voter suppression drives to win majorities in statehouses, to destroy protections (eliminate regulations) and further extend their ideology to all aspects of American life • The absence of social responsibility • A greed-is-good ethic (a prime cause of the financial crisis) • Using budgets deficits as convenient ruses to destroy American democracy and replace it with “strict” rule in all areas of life. • Defending all of this by carrying a gun.

So to take at an example of where these two groups will diverge when solving our problems look at the banking crisis. The nurturants would want to restore accountable government and its ability to protect citizens, and enact strong regulations that prevent banks from ever defrauding the public again.

The stricts despise government and so would call for even less government, less regulation, and hand the problem over to the free market to solve.

This explains the frequent “End the Fed” posts in the OWS forums and chats. These are “stricts” who while disgusted with the banks behavior, would solve the problem by destroying a government agency that was created to to prevent crises in the first place.

So to restate, and so the movement remains clear about who they align themselves with: • eliminating party and political rhetoric is noble and right • remain aware that the moral value systems that divide the country are not going away • its probably best not to waste too much energy trying to find agreement with those who have an opposing moral viewpoint

In closing, speak your values frequently and clearly. The OWS movement's values are at base American values and will garner enough support to enact the changes we need, without having to partner with movements whose values are at odds with OWS.

Onward! www.knowyourvalues.org/occupy

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9 Comments


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[-] 1 points by GMason1776 (8) 12 years ago

This explains the frequent “End the Fed” posts in the OWS forums and chats. These are “stricts” who while disgusted with the banks behavior, would solve the problem by destroying a government agency that was created to to prevent crises in the first place.


By this statement, you've demonstrated your ignorance and have completely invalidated the rest of your post. The Federal Reserve is not now, and never was, a government agency. It is a private group owned by ..........wait for it..........BANKS. And you expect them to "prevent crises in the first place"? LOL. It is the misinformed sheep such as yourself that allow these plutocrats to operate so freely. The Federal Reserve devalues our currency in order for the politicians to spend more implementing the welfare and warfare states, which they use to buy votes at home and "spread democracy" (expand empire) abroad. Wake up. The growth of government that you have requested to help usher in the social justice that you so desire has led to the government becoming indebted trillions of dollars to the banks. The Federal Reserve is like the drug dealer. The politicians are the junkies. And you are an enabler!

[-] 1 points by GMason1776 (8) 12 years ago

This explains the frequent “End the Fed” posts in the OWS forums and chats. These are “stricts” who while disgusted with the banks behavior, would solve the problem by destroying a government agency that was created to to prevent crises in the first place.


By this statement, you've demonstrated your ignorance and have completely invalidated the rest of your post. The Federal Reserve is not now, and never was, a government agency. It is a private group owned by ..........wait for it..........BANKS. And you expect them to "prevent crises in the first place"? LOL. It is the misinformed sheep such as yourself that allow these plutocrats to operate so freely. The Federal Reserve devalues our currency in order for the politicians to spend more implementing the welfare and warfare states, which they use to buy votes at home and "spread democracy" (expand empire) abroad. Wake up. The growth of government that you have requested to help usher in the social justice that you so desire has led to the government becoming indebted trillions of dollars to the banks. The Federal Reserve is like the drug dealer. The politicians are the junkies. And you are an enabler!

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

well, actually, the left/ right dualism is a house of cards, our job is to knock that crap down and point out that the whole dualism is a con scam.


http://occupywallst.org/forum/corporate-oligarchy/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/thetruth-socialismcapitalismcommunismmarxism/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/capitalism-versus-corporatism/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/no-war/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/help-me-understand/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/capitalism-a-love-story/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/sociology/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/energy-101-solution/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/ethics/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/break-your-left-right-conditioning/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/nader-kucinich-and-paul/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/5-facts-you-should-know-about-the-wealthiest-one-p/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/i-am-homeless-joe-jp-morgan-chase-accidentally-for/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/can-we-end-the-fed/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-end-the-federal-reserve-and-what-do-you-replac/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/where-are-we-and-how-do-we-move-forward/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/things-wall-st-did-were-not-illegal/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/teaching-the-occupation/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/this-forum-needs-structure/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-is-not-your-personal-billboard-for-your-politi/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/systems-theory-primer/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/organize-inform-take-action-effect-change/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/better-website-needed/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/stop-playing-the-devils-games/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/nonviolence-the-only-path/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-not-against-capitalism/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/this-is-not-about-political-stripe-it-is-about-bas/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/national-initiative-for-democracy/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-third-political-party-the-movement-of-the-middle/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/300-fema-camps/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-is-a-false-flag-operation/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-this-will-not-work/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/paradigm-shift-now/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-proposal-for-focus/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/stop-the-bullshit-posts-and-get-organized/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/suggested-goals/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/oct-18-gao/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/naomi-klein-climate-change-fight-is-down-to-the-99/

[-] 1 points by sundog (14) from Essex Fells, NJ 12 years ago

People's minds don't change that easily or quickly if at all.

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

paradigm shifts. Strangely enough, when change does happen it can happen VERY quickly. As Tori Amos once famously sang- "all of the white horses are still in bed"

Snow can wait I forgot my mittens Wipe my nose Get my new boots on I get a little warm in my heart When I think of winter I put my hand in my father's glove I run off Where the drifts get deeper Sleeping beauty trips me with a frown I hear a voice "Your must learn to stand up for yourself Cause I can't always be around" He says When you gonna make up your mind When you gonna love you as much as I do When you gonna make up your mind Cause things are gonna change so fast All the white horses are still in bed I tell you that I'll always want you near You say that things change my dear

Boys get discovered as winter melts Flowers competing for the sun Years go by and I'm here still waiting Withering where some snowman was Mirror mirror where's the crystal palace But I only can see the myself Skating around the truth who I am But I know dad the ice is getting thin

When you gonna make up your mind When you gonna love you as much as I do When you gonna make up your mind Cause things are gonna change so fast All the white horses are still in bed I tell you that I'll always want you near You say that things change my dear

Hair is grey And the fires are burning So many dreams On the shelf You say I wanted you to be proud of me I always wanted that myself

He says When you gonna make up your mind When you gonna love you as much as I do When you gonna make up your mind Cause things are gonna change so fast All the white horses have gone ahead I tell you that I'll always want you near You say that things change My dear

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WfSVKGkoWs

[-] 1 points by OriginalPrinciples (2) 12 years ago

You my friend are incredibly backwards. Can you tell me why no one on the left, or sorry the "nuturants" have, at any time made an attempt to prosecute those on Wall Street who caused the collapse? What about at Fannie & Freddie for the part they played? The "nuturants" had 2 years of unfettered power and did none of this, why is that?

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

you missed the point entirely. the "left" and the "right" is actually two sides of one meta entity- the agent smith propaganda monster. of course the left doesn't stand up for the people- DUH. Its the ENEMY of the people, just like the right.


http://www.oligarchyusa.com/

http://www.istockanalyst.com/finance/story/5390832/some-fascinating-stats-about-our-corporate-oligarchy

http://foreignpolicyblogs.com/category/21st-century-challenges/ethicsandeconomics/

According to a 2008 article by David Rothkopf, the world’s 1,100 richest people have almost twice the assets of the poorest 2.5 billion (Rothkopf, 2008). Aside from the obvious problem – that this global elite has their hands in everything from politics to financial institutions – …

http://theprogressiveplaybook.com/2011/09/occupywallstreet-an-american-tahrir/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ght22PnCXy0

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/miles-mogulescu/wisconsin-is-ground-zero_b_825321.html

http://last-lost-empire.com/blog/?tag=global-corporate-oligarchy

To the extent that we, the people, are removed from control over our lands, marketplaces, central banks, and media we are no longer empowered. In practice, those few who do control the land, central bank, media and "free market" are the real rulers of our corrupt and declining "democracy."

Due to propaganda from a corporate-owned and edited media we are kept from knowing, much less debating, the nature of our system. Due to a central bank owned by bankers, media owned by a few global concerns, and trade regime controlled by global corporations (i.e., one designed to remove the people from control over their markets and environments) the vast majority have become little more than latter-day serfs and neo-slaves upon a corporate latifundia.

To restore a semblance of effective democracy and true freedom Americans, and people around the world, need to re-educate themselves as to the true nature of their political and economic systems. Toward this end, OligarchyUSA.com is dedicated to providing old and new information, books, links, reform ideas and debates not easily found or accessed today in establishment media.

OligarchyUSA.com is but one more site and sign of the times as ground-up counter-revolutions arise around the world... all in response to a forced and freedomless globalization courtesy of a ruling global elite perfecting their top-down plutocracy and revolutions of the rich against the poor. In short, democracy is no longer effective today. For this reason, it is toward a restoration of truly effective and representative democracies, and natural freedom, that this site is dedicated.

[-] 1 points by sundog (14) from Essex Fells, NJ 12 years ago

I think very few in the OWS movement believe the Democratic party represents them. Indeed Obama and the dems have consistenly gone out of their way to thwart progressive outcomes. The people in the streets have generally had no representation and that's a big reason why they're out there.